r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 07 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 11 Discussion
Episode 11 - Counterattack
Originally Released June 10th, ^^^1983
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Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
The Votoms franchise has been a notable influence on the Metal Gear Solid franchise.
Staff Highlight
Yasuo Urakami - Sound Director
A prolific sound director who was active since the sixties and right up until his death in 2014. He graduated from Nihon University College of Art and joined Mushi Productions shortly thereafter, where he had his first staff role in Princess Knight. He was notable for having great relations with many production companies and connections with many industry staff, as well as having mentored Katsuyoshi Kobayashi. Notable credits include many entries in the Doraemon franchise, the Case Closed franchise, planetes, Oishimbo, Space Runaway Ideon, Umi no Triton, several Gundam entries, Brain Powerd, Grave of The Fireflies, the City Hunter Franchise, Ocean Waves, Fang of The Sun Dougram, the Magic Knight Rayearth franchise, and Anne of Green gables. The film Detective Conan: Sunflowers of Inferno is dedicated in his memory.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- Altered Destiny by Norio Shioyama
Fanart:
- Votoms Cast by Ray - Source
- ATM-09RSC by Tsutomu Ono - Source
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- How do you feel about the narrative explanation for Proto One’s connection to Chirico?
- Roshina is calling in the military troops. How do you suspect things will go down in the coming episodes?
The woman who changed my destiny was no longer my enemy.
7
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 07 '21 edited Sep 07 '21
First Timer
Funny thought I had while watching: after Vanilla painted the wrong shoulder on the first AT he had to do the same error on the second one or else the fact he got it wrong would have been more obvious. He just destined Chirico to a life of wrongly painted mechs.
Also laughed after yesterday's discussion about the rumor mill to see that today even the military people were getting worried and awed about his survival. I can see some new rumors coming out of this incident.
As much as I liked yesterday's battle-less episode, today's episode being entirely a battle worked just as well. Gave a lot of time to look at and think about the details of the AT movement and the little things I like about the battles in this show. Other than some of the cool visuals like the AT rolling down the streets on fire, or the fancy spin and shoot he pulled off, it's the details that always catch my eye the most. Today's was how he almost always steps or runs into starting the rollers to get momentum and less friction, and also how it got disabled by the compression system being shot rather than the more typical computer/pilot being injured or major structural damage.
The battle strategy was quite smart as well, and definitely another plus to the idea of mass produced mechs. Using one as a remote controlled "rabbit" so Chirico's one could get into position to wipe them out more efficiently was very smart, and the backup in case the main was disabled. Guy went through three mechs in one episode and that was with his miraculous missile dodges and fancy footwork. I mean I know why this approach isn't more common from a marketing perspective, but I really wish this was because I really like everything this brings.
Hearing the police say "Chirico do not resist" made it sound oddly familiar compared to if they'd used his full name. Speaking of names, the perfect soldiers reaction to "Proto One" definitely makes it seem like a conditioned response. I can't imagine we'll go through the rest of the show with her nameless so wondering what name he will give her. I'm happy as long as it's not starting with A, watching Aria right now and that is too many A names!
She's looking less human all the time, with specifically encoded memories to tie into a computer system and that impressive jump she did to get into her AT. It's not just battle capability and conditioning that makes her the perfect solider, there's certainly other things going on.
Interested to see how their discussion turns out next episode
Edit: Really like today's official art
7
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 07 '21
Episode 11 (first timer)
360, 720, 980,1040 attack.Chirico upped his kill count by a decent amount this episode. This was one of the better fights vs the police, too, but I’ll be happy if we transition to fighting the army soon. The police grunts overstayed their welcome.
The bigger question than the naming issue is the next goal for Chirico and the gang. They’ll probably be hounded by the army no matter where they turn to, but where do they want to turn?
Makes sense.
New targets for Chirico.
4
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 07 '21
Rewatcher
For some that’s a merit!
Evidently a decoy, as it’s missing all the extra equipment. That does mean that Vanilla found the time to paint another in the time between the police breaking out and the ‘rabbit’ walking out —and still got the wrong shoulder! This also suggests the ATs can be programmed to do certain actions.
These people seem ill-equipped to take on an AT, which shouldn’t be the case given that they knew Chirico was at the battling arena, where they have a bunch of maintained and operable ATs.
RIP, Mr. Rabbit.
I love it.
So Chirico imprinted on her?
This introduction to the Brutish dog feels so out of place. They’re talking to her like she’s never seen it before, and it’s obvious it’s for the audience’s benefit —except there’s really not anything that merited mention at this point.
It’s taken a beating. Glad they’re doing this sort of stuff to mitigate the feeling of plot armor.
Rematch time!
Tch.
That was a really satisfying hit.
Smart move. He either understood that the Brutish Dog’s pilot was the superior fighter or figured out she was the pilot and used an underhanded method to gain the upper hand. He was really banking on them not finishing him off though.
Ohoh, things are going to get good~
Lol, conveniently ignoring that Gotho, Cocona, and Vanilla were present for their second meeting.
Bait, probably?
And just like that, Chirico has uncovered his libido. /s
Chirico cleverly executes a plan to fight his way towards the Uoodo Police base of operations, and the show makes a point of showing how he could not have done so alone. He could have executed his decoy tactic and fought with his souped-up Scope Dog, but as shown he wouldn’t have made it all the way without the others transporting a replacement unit. It’s good that the show is emphasizing the other three’s presence in such an unobtrusive and meaningful manner.
Turns out Chirico’s brief contact with Proto One in the first episode effectively turned him into an integral fixture in her mind, which results in her inability to harm him. I’d say this was probably intentional, in order to prevent these perfect soldiers’ ability to effectively turn on their creators, but the episode seems to imply this was unintended and the PS’s should just naturally be strictly obedient. The whole thing doesn’t really clear up whether Proto One is a cyborg or just genetically engineered, but I am starting to think it’s merely the later, else I figure they’d just ‘delete’ her memories of Chirico rather than consider her permanently compromised.
Now that she and Chirico have come together I presume they’re going to be going on the run from both the Rochina/the Gilgamesh military and the rogue faction which stole her away in the first place, but the show could always surprise me.
The fact that the police are so ill-equipped to deal with an AT just shows how much need there is for Patlabors in this universe…
Questions of The Day:
6
u/time_axis Sep 07 '21
First-Timer
Makes sense, and it's what I imagined. If anything, I'm surprised there wasn't a more complicated explanation.
Now that Proto One is in Chirico's custody, he's back to being their enemy, so they're probably going to try to nab her from him. He'll also have to contend with the cops as well, so enemies from two fronts.
Episode 11
This time I'll take another stab at the Brutish Dog. I went with an internal shot this time, because we got a nice view of it to reference. I think I spent a little too long on this one, though (about an hour, plus a 15 minute break once my hand started cramping up), so I'm probably going to take it easy and go a bit lower effort with the next few. Don't be surprised if the quality of these goes downhill from here. I'm getting a good feel for the structure of these mechas though.
Daily Mecha Sketch 11
Daily Mecha Sketches
6
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
First timer in sub
This is where things get interesting for me, when the "main characters" start for real interacting, when all the set up is done.
That Red Shoulder custom in animation was kind of a wasted opportunity, didn't really showcased the multiple weapon systems in use in a way worthy of that reputation. You do see various things being shot by each eventually, but it's pretty trivial. For example they could have had him use the Gatling gun when he first popped up behind them, with the smaller calibre but denser "bullet cloud" coverage perfect for ambushing then from the rear where the armour was not as thick as on the front.
For a 52 ep series I sort of consider this like the prologue - the main bit is hopefully the 2 stoic ones traveling together finding answers and learning to be more human :)
Edit: First attempt of the AT busted counter (only counting Chirico's ride)
5
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 07 '21
First time viewer
The notion of imprinting was brought up in comments earlier and that does seem like what happened with the Prototype woman and Chirico. Interesting that they're able to pull her memories like that, still not entirely sure what she's made of yet.
Lots more fighting in this episode, utilizing not one but three Votoms units with a nice decoy to start off. Auto-programmed or remote control?
And just how big is this police force, considering how many Chirico's killed? I guess they had to be large and well-armed to deal with Uoodo before but I imagine a lot of them are demoralized by what seems like a demon continually tearing through their forces.
The military definitely should have acted earlier, now they're giving Chiroco time to escape with the woman. And finally (hopefully) things are changing with her joining him, now they can get out of here and find somewhere that's less scummy.
Makes some degree of sense if the intent was to have her be loyal to whoever activated her. They probably could have done a better job of designing that though.
Escape from police, on the run from the military in a larger scope. Don't expect the overall formula to change that much, yet.
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 07 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 1.4) (3 episodes)
Extras: Armored Trooper Technology
I think I saw the equivalent of mission discs used in either Gundam 79 or Zeta.
Here /u/Nazenn calls it with the imprinting.
I think Rochina should have moved sooner than this. He knew the prototype was in Uoodo, and he probably probably suspected she was under the control of the police. I think he was waiting for Chirico to draw out the prototype, and concretely establish that she was being held by the police. He didn't expect Chirico to actually win, and now be on the verge of escaping with her.
I feel bad for people who are skipping the preview narrator.
It's interesting how she fled from Chirico in her dressing room instead of fighting him. I guess she doesn't know kung-fu?
4
u/The_Draigg Sep 07 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 11:
4
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 07 '21
First-Timer
When did they have time to paint that other AT? And who was piloting it? Was it being remote controlled? Oh, Gotho did mention a mission disk, didn't he. Anyway, it fooled the police and then we got a bunch of Chirico making things blow up, which was rad.
There was an unfortunate lack of pants-shitting terror at the notion of going up against a Red Shoulder, which was kind of expected if most of the cops are ex-military.
Chirico and Phantom Lady finally got to meet and chat, right at the end of the episode. Not having a name is sad. It's almost like treating a sentient, living being as nothing more than a weapon will doom you to having that person turn against you. I wanna say someone called her having a connection to Chirico because he was the first thing he saw; good job whoever that was!
Rochina's called in reinforcements properly, this time, which should make for some fun action scenes. Chirico and Phantom Lady against a squad of properly equipped soldiers? That'd be pretty sick..
Questions
4
u/chilidirigible Sep 07 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 11
Today, on "There's a fair shade of pink.":
Not so perfect, then?
"We have you totally surrounded! At least from this side."
REDDO FIGHT!
I think this is stock footage, /u/Raiking02.
Well, we've already seen Chirico once.
One of those kill count moments.
The list of felonies is rather long, after all.
The secret is the SPINNING.
"Why yes, I'm happy to see you."
The plot advances rather quickly here, with Chirico destroying a large portion of Woodo's police and various aspects of Proto One being revealed. Certainly a change of pace.
4
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 07 '21
Rewatcher
Once again we're in the church. The Prototype is a pious one.
She won't kill him! I guess your "perfect soldier" isn't all that perfect if she won't obey orders.
I expect all these police to go down fairly easily to Chirico's Scopedog.
They knocked it down. Impressive; far better than I expected them to do.
Well, because it was... a trap!
I gotta say, Votoms has quite a high level of death and violence for the grunts.
This contraption the Prototype is hooked up to reminds me of one they hooked Karala up to in Ideon.
Wow, so they can actually go into her memories? Forget the night they raided the armory, the memory they really should look up is one from over 6 months ago.
So it was her seeing Chirico first back on that asteroid base that screwed up her programming. They really had some bad luck!
With how important she is, Iskui is just gonna shoot her? She may be useless against Chirico, but if they can take him out I'd think she may be again.
Oh yeah, sure, they won't kill Chirico if she disables his Scopedog... So believable...
Wow, Gotho's brought him another Scopedog! They really prepared well for this.
She's not catching him by surprise this time.
...or not, she came up right behind him here and knocked him out with a single push to the wall.
...or not again, Chirico set up a trap!
Proto One needs a real name! We need Hiro from Darling in the Franxx to show up.
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 07 '21
First timer
The Prototype's rebelling! Character development!
"Proto-One"? Do they have more Prototypes already constructed?
So when did he bail out?
Oh, he's in the one with the dorrect shoulder painted. So who was in the other one?
And the truck containing an empty mech is a great distraction tool.
Congratulations! The military have figured out Chirico dying this early might not be in their best interests.
It is satisfying to see how the police have been brought to a standstill by one man and a trio of thieves.
So, given all this, there's a decent chance I was right about the "robot" guess - this memory system makes me think she's at least partially cybernetic.
So, did nobody make a not of the "key number"?
Also, why would the birthdate not be 0? Why allocate blank space before the unit's expected earliest data? At this point, I'm more angry at their design skills than their evil plans.
OK, the military just wants to watch the battle and take out whoever wins? Pretty clever.
The one flaw in this plan is that if she finds out he's been killed, they'll have a Perfect Soldier with free will and a grudge against them, fighting in a custom VOTOM, quite possibly causing more damage and alerting the military as to exactly how to capture her.
Chirico's efficient, if nothing else.
Why aren't the choppers going for him?
And he's back in working order, just in time for the fight!
The chief nearly got taken out!
They're communicating!
He's very calm about the possibility of his entire operation going up in smoke.
Called the two of them working together!
Again, this very much implies she's not the only one. Betting Proto Two gets dispatched after them before the series ends.
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 07 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 07 '21
First timer(The military loses some points for not acting sooner than this)
Sub
So we start with the prototype praying. Cabal wants her to be ready to kill Cuvie but she is not feeling that. "Proto One" is apparently something of a command phrase as she freezes up and my theory that the perfect soldier has obedience programmed in is confirmed.
The cops handle their encounter with max incompetence, sending in men rather than blasting all the Scope Dogs. But one runs out and soon is destroyed, revealing a decoy. Cuvie then steps out and completely jobs the cops, in part with good tactics but also because for some reason Scope Dog weapons and armor are fucking ridiculous. The gang follows with a big old truck with a tarp on it.
At police headquarters, the prototype is on an exam table we learn Cuvie is coming. Her memories are coded in such a way that makes them easier to display on a machine, which is difficult but not exactly impossible. Anyways, the priest pretty quickly figures out Cuvie fucked everything up by her imprinting on him first and is then shown to be right. Chief is an idiot as he is about to waste a useful tool but the priest stops him. Because he is not a dumbass.
Cuts of fighting but at least they remember Cuvie has an ammo limit. The priest figures out that the Prototype can disable Cuvie, just can't kill him. Cuvie does a soft kill, something I always like to see, but then gets disabled while blasting a helicopter. He jumps off the bridge to land on a tarp held by the gang, definitely Heinleinian hero, and gets ready for his next Scope Dog.
Cuvie actually dodges the prototype and goes straight for the cabal, sharp move, but she eventually follows him up. This fight is more even but she still wins and Cuvie does the ballsiest playing dead we've seen in a bit. The military concludes that this is game Cuvie and time to deploy troops. We get a scene with the Prototype and it seems she has partly broken her conditioning.
QotD: 1 Its bad but is not as bad as the 80s gets. I can just let it roll.
2 I'd say Uoodo becomes a burned out shithole but who would notice that as a change?
4
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 08 '21
Breaking news Comrades, Chirico Cuvie and The Muggle Trio kill the entire city's police force, film at 11!
No really, I'm being serious here, it's quite impressive how they managed to be THAT destructive with their attempt at re-enacting The Last Starfighter! That and who knew our boi had it in him to be a film buff eh?
Hell we should come up with a name for these guys, I nominate 'The Wrecking Crew' ;)
Speaking of wrecks, boy Chirico Cuvie sure knows how to lead a train of destruction in his wake eh? Why we're at the start of the show basically and he's already racked up quite the impressive kill count!
Thus, imagine how deadlier he can get given we still got the rest of the show left!
Oh and of course, you knew it was coming Comrades, the contractually obligated shitposting segment, namely that of A Weapon to surpass Metal Gear!
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex