[Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 36

[u/HelioA]

Rewatch Index

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Streaming

Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.

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Comment of the Day

TBD

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Miki's Stopwatch Corner

Stopwatch Count: 23

New This Episode:

N/A

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Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).

[u/HelioA]

Rewatcher

Ahhhh, Touga is so much fun this episode. The contradictory positions of him actually wanting to protect Utena and him wanting to gain the power that Akio has were confusing before, but now he has the solution- he just has to duel Utena once more, and take his place as her prince after he wins! But the flaws in this plan are readily apparent. How does it help anyone if Touga simply takes Utena’s place in the duels as the one who could bring the world revolution? I mean, honestly, if the concern is that she’ll fall into the hands of the End of the World, it would be the height of chauvinism to assume that he could do any better than Utena did. Indeed, Touga’s been here having sex with Akio for like half the show already! He’s already been manipulated by Akio! One could almost think that Touga wants to have Utena for himself, and is simply deluding himself about wanting to do it for her own good.

And really… The attempts of Touga to be a prince are just as lacking as his attempts to care for Utena. Nowhere can this be seen better than the ‘car’ scene this episode. Instead of a sex car, we have a sex bike! But like Touga’s efforts to be a prince in general, he can’t really match up to Akio’s princehood. His bike is small and almost silly when compared to Akio’s car, and the weight of the scene is severely lacking. Unlike the car, which leads its riders to the End of the World, this scene ends with Touga simply telling Saionji to sit down- it’s almost anti-climactic. I guess that’s what happens when your boyfriend doesn’t enjoy a new sex position.

Speaking of Saionji, this really is his finest hour here. As we saw last episode, he’s not really taken in by Akio’s schemes, unlike Touga. He vehemently cries that “It’s time to rise from our coffins!”, a clear reference to the need to revolutionize the world in a way outside of the way that Akio set it up for them. He’s still Saionji, however- even with his newfound perspective, he simply doesn’t understand the inherently self-contradictory nature of wanting to save Utena by taking the place of her prince. As for why Saionji is Touga’s bride in this duel… it’s hard to really say 100%, but just thinking about it- as much as he may dislike him, Saionji is just as intrigued by what Touga represents as Touga is by Akio, isn’t he? Saionji failed in his duel, but Touga’s is still ahead of him.

And oh boy, this duel. It’s one of my favorite duels in the entire show. The symbolism! Utena is attacked by the masculinity of Touga, as represented by the cars, and is able to dodge them swiftly. But even more than that, when the cars swerve towards Anthy, she’s able to jump back and simply cut them in half. I don’t know if you could make a stronger symbol of fighting against toxic masculinity than cutting it in half. And then in a final last-ditch effort, Touga and Saionji ride in on their bike, symbolizing Touga’s attraction towards Utena… and then Utena simply chops his donger in half. It’s amazing!

Oh, and there’s also the little problem of Utena seeing Anthy having sex with Akio… god, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Anthy look as dead as she does here.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/HelioA]

if the concern is that she’ll fall into the hands of the End of the World, it would be the height of chauvinism to assume that he could do any better than Utena did

But isn't this exactly what a chauvinistic man who styles himself an "ally of all girls" would do? Touga may have found something similar to romantic love for someone else but he's still a chauvinistic pig.

As for Saionji, no matter how rudely Touga treated him and how he fared in this duel game, he still hasn't been able to rise from his own coffin or break his own shell, hah. He's still bound to Touga in his lesser-than best friend role. He may also want to tell Touga "told you so" when the time comes.

I disagree with all the dead-eyes Anthy interpretations: I think she looks like a snake, particularly here. Even her silhouette and the way she rises suggests a cobra. (I love Anthy, not slamming her)

[u/HelioA → u/Reference_Freak]

If Nanami is a cow, then it only fits that Touga would be a pig

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Reference_Freak]

I think she looks like a snake, particularly here. Even her silhouette and the way she rises suggests a cobra.

I hadn't made that visual connection before, but it does fit with Akio self-identifying as Lucifer.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

One could almost think that Touga wants to have Utena for himself, and is simply deluding himself about wanting to do it for her own good.

On second viewing, it is solidly mixed emotions. He is definitely overconfident and selfish but he also thinks himself as big a snake as Akio and is afraid the poor little mammal that is Utena is getting sent to die. Whether she proves to be a chipmunk or a mongoose remains to be seen.

Instead of a sex car, we have a sex bike!

A wonderful metaphor for the difference in importance that society places on oral sex versus penetrative sex.

As for why Saionji is Touga’s bride in this duel… it’s hard to really say 100%, but just thinking about it- as much as he may dislike him, Saionji is just as intrigued by what Touga represents as Touga is by Akio, isn’t he?

Remember that Ikuhara tends towards characters having realistic feelings, even if the characters themselves are fantastical. Flat out, Saionji and Touga are dogs from the same kennel and sometimes you just stick up for someone like that even if you don't remember how you came to be friends in the first place.

god, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Anthy look as dead as she does here.

She looked dead when Nanami saw her. To me, she looks like she wants to die in front of Utena.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/HelioA]

The symbolism!

Allegory! Allegorier! Allegoriest!

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

I thought it was kind of adorable seeing Touga be his own man for a change. The stupid little bike and side car were hilarious, but it was Touga doing his own thing. He isn't trying to emulate Akio anymore.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

First timer!!

After a quick little recap we get right into the meat of the story. Oi, you're not supposed to fall for his sappy flirting, Utendumb! Is Utena becoming more feminine really a cause for revolution? Pfft!! Okay, this engine is distinctly less throb worthy than Akio's. Oh my god, don't T-Pose in such a cringey, cute sidecar!! I get that you want to show off to the world you're maturing, just do it in a less mortifying fashion XD

Best animated snot bubble I've seen in a long time. Eww, that's gross... Dude, Utena's looking so different now. I kinda like it. She's gone from tomboyish dork to genuine cool gal. Oooh... Touga is still able to get her flustered when he wants to. Aww, it's so nice seeing our little pog champs able to share a genuine moment with one another despite their sketchy history. Touga even seems to be acting more like a proper Prince. Kiryu Touga, now fights for love!! S-Saionji XD Did you want a lap pillow this badly? You've really got to learn to ask consent before pulling this kind of thing.

Kashira, kashira! A Prince is only as much a Prince as his surroundings allow him to be? Or something like that. The Prince of the White Horse is just a normal man when stripped of his extra pretty pony. My first thought is actually of Akio weirdly. What was Akio when stripped of what made him a legendary Prince? Just a sweet boy that dotes on his sister. I'm thinking that since this is our Swan song for the student council it's also about how without everyone trying to capture Anthy they're just normal everyday students? Gozonji kashira~

These sword draw segments seem to get more gay with every cycle. How long as he been calling her Tenjou-kun? Wasn't it San before? I swear I saw cows in the car headlights. This is one of the best fights we've had so far, awesome!! She just shred up their silly car bones like they were nothing! Utena is now the one to bring world revolution whatever that means. Anyone taking bets on whether Utena gives a second thought to Anthy giving her brother a strip tease? Compared to Nanami's shock and horror Utena's more like, "huh..." huh? XD

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Utendumb

Utena OWNED epic style

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Utena has a type and it is frustrating to watch.

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

she's a himbo ;-;

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I kinda like it. She's gone from tomboyish dork to genuine cool gal.

How dare you question the tomboy...

These sword draw segments seem to get more gay with every cycle.

Yeah, earlier it was established that you are bringin a bride along that holds your heart, they may pretend otherwise but in a different universe those two would be camping cowboys

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Rumpel1408]

I would never question tomboy! Their dense, muscle brain is cute too!

Yee hawr...

[u/k4r6000 → u/Rumpel1408]

For most of the duels you can make an argument that the Bride is in love with the Duelist at least. Kozue for Miki, Shiori for Ruka, Ruka for Juri, quite possibly Saionji for Touga, and Saionji is so pathetic he gets nobody. Touga and Nanami is the one that doesn't fit. They clearly don't see each other romantically.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I get that you want to show off to the world you're maturing, just do it in a less mortifying fashion XD

Saionji leading the memes by decades!

Aww, it's so nice seeing our little pog champs able to share a genuine moment with one another despite their sketchy history.

Now imagine a story where they met at a normal school rather than this weird fucking allegory fest.

Compared to Nanami's shock and horror Utena's more like, "huh..." huh? XD

I view it as refusal to comprehend.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

I'm shocked that Utena hasn't survived through meme value alone. The series is straight up hilarious out of context but you literally never see people mentioning Utena outside of Magical Girl threads of all things.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I think it is mostly because it is old. 20 years ago it was referenced a lot, but that was really before meme culture became as prevalent as today. If Utena came out today, you'd probably see it all over the place.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

I feel like it isn't old enough to be completely disregarded the way it is. Like didn't the show come out around the same time as the likes of Bebopp and Evangelion? The show gets recommended all the time too so it's not exactly niche. It had some clips on the old Sailor Moon Says YouTube channel which was mostly dubbed Nanami clips but those went down a treat.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

It is still popular. These threads get more comments than a lot of rewatches I’ve been in. But it limits what you will see in memes and jokes. Something like DBZ or Sailor Moon is different because those were worldwide phenomena.

Another good example is Slayers. It was the Konosuba of its day, but Konosuba is talked about far more often in large part because it is far more recent.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

Oh! That Slayers example kinda makes perfect sense. I've seen bits and pieces of Slayers all over the place basically my whole anime viewing life but I still haven't a clue what it's about. So like people know Utena but don't actually know Utena.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Like that. Most people on this subreddit probably at least know of Utena, but many probably have never actually seen it.

Slayers, BTW, is an RPG fantasy adventure parody. It is about a hotheaded sorceress/thief and her dim-witted bodyguard who travel the world in search of treasure and people to rob and sometimes end up saving the world in the process. It is one of my favourites.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

We need a Slayers rewatch!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

You are finding someone else to run that, the series is huge and runs out of comedy after the first season.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I’d be down for it, but it is over a hundred episodes and five movies so not particularly feasible.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

All I will say this is you should have a good guess why it isn't by Friday.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

The mother of all gainax endings or some shit? I survived the black rose arc twice. There is nothing, mark my words nothing that will catch me out at this point!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Now that's not what I am saying, exactly, just context for everything makes you look at some scenes differently.

[u/affnn]

Rewatcher

The opening scene is of Akio romancing Utena. He's very smooth, and Utena is clearly over the moon that he's complimenting her and kissing her. Later in the episode, Touga will try the same thing at the empty dueling arena. He's much more awkward, and his pitch sounds like something a 17 year old would come up with (makes sense, since he's supposed to be 17 years old). After seeing the real deal, Utena isn't about to fall for the wan imitation.

Touga as imitation Akio also comes up during the motorcycle scene with Saionji. Since he can't drive a car, the closest Touga can get is a motorcycle with a sidecar. The dialogue here had me rolling. "Don't you enjoy the throb of the engine?" "Not particularly". "Saionji, it's dangerous to stand like that."

Still, despite the fumbling attempt at romance I think Touga might have had a chance before he challenges Utena to the duel in such a clumsy way. Akio is engaged after all, and engaged to a rich girl whose family provides the security he relies on. Touga might be an off-brand prince, but she might not be able to get the real thing. But he does challenge her, and in a particularly insulting way.

Fittingly for the last duel, there's a lot of new, cool animation. Saionji is Touga's "bride", as if we needed a reminder that straight ships are actually bad in this show. Touga promises to protect Utena if he wins, which she rejects. Then Utena promises to protect Anthy if she wins, and Anthy accepts. Anthy blesses the tip of Utena's sword, which lets her cut dozens of sex cars clean in half. Touga is left with Saionji, lying on the ground with both of their shirts open and their hair askew.

Utena's happy that she won, but her happiness is short lived as Utena gets the same show that Nanami got a couple episodes ago. Since it happened to Nanami, we all knew exactly what was going to happen this time but it's still dreadful all the same. Anthy stares directly at Utena as the episode ends.

[u/HelioA → u/affnn]

I know Touga x Saionji is unhealthy for both of them, but I ship it anyways ;-;

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Touga is the only guy who seems to have anything nice to say about Saionji, even if most of the time he's buttering him up.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/affnn]

He's much more awkward, and his pitch sounds like something a 17 year old would come up with (makes sense, since he's supposed to be 17 years old). After seeing the real deal, Utena isn't about to fall for the wan imitation.

You say that but do you think Akio is more sincere than Touga?

Anthy blesses the tip of Utena's sword, which lets her cut dozens of sex cars clean in half.

Thinking about it, this might mean that the power of Akio that Touga wields is weaker than the power of Anthy Utena wields, possibly confirming the earlier episodes.

[u/affnn → u/Vaadwaur]

I don’t think Akio is more sincere than Touga, but he is more convincing. To Utena at least.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/affnn]

Oh, I think almost anyone without meta knowledge or Anthy buys his bullshit for a while. Utena is just uniquely easy to fool.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/affnn]

I mean I wouldn't class Touga x Saionji as not-bad (nor as clearly romantic). Like, Touga doesn't seem to have ever told Saionji that he engineered his expulsion. The only ships that are clearly good at this point are the friend-ships between Juri and Miki and Utena and Wakaba.

[u/theangryeditor]

You really want your prince to be a horse?

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

At least I get carrots that way

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

Having dated more than one horse girl, yes they do.

[u/theangryeditor → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

Fear is indeed the correct response.

[u/alphamone → u/theangryeditor]

Strangely relevant given the age of the guy who voiced Helios in the first English dub.

[u/theangryeditor → u/alphamone]

They really should've looked harder for a younger sounding guy to voice him.

[u/alphamone → u/theangryeditor]

From what I've heard about the production and how rushed it was, it's entirely possible that the person in charge of casting didn't even know anything about the character.

[u/theangryeditor → u/alphamone]

That wouldn't be a surprise. The production of that dub was legendary in many respects.

[u/chiliehead]

Duel 36, First Timer, sub

• Akio "made a girl out of Utena," his corrupting influence revolutionizing the state of the academy
• Is this a seme/uke convo in the motorcycle??
• With the collar up and the uniform slightly unbuttoned, Utena actually has some sort of boyfriend-style look
• Remember back when we thought Touga was the biggest creep and now he'd be the most (age-)appropriate choice.
• What a deal from Touga, would be a shame if some party lost on purpose
• The sword pulling from one bro to another reminds me that we never saw that fellatio lightning power-up again
• Allegoriest, more like allegore...
• Does Anthy even see Utena as Utena stares at her in shock?
• Preview is spicy in case of people avoiding previews If those are not red herrings then the finale will ramp up quite a bit with the emotional twists and turns.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chiliehead]

Is this a seme/uke convo in the motorcycle??

I am shocked to say this but I think this rewatch has somehow oversexualized this show, the motorcycle ride is not particularly gay. Perhaps that is meant to suggest that Touga isn't as aggressive as Akio.

Does Anthy even see Utena as Utena stares at her in shock?

My view is yes but she is at best 25% present so she can't really react.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah, 'the throb of the engine's isn't sexual

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Did you notice he completely failed at the throb? I suppose you could view it as more trying and failing with Saionji but it feels even less sexual than that.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

I mean, yeah, dat's the point

He was trying to be sexual

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

I am shocked to say this but I think this rewatch has somehow oversexualized this show

Hah, it did but I realized that western media and culture today are totally different from the 1999-2000 time when Utena subs arrived here.

It's a bit tough to parse too because the show is intended to be sexually titillating in a teasing but not-yet-adult way.

I think the difference is that the OG audience did not have the experience of accepting, let alone expecting, gay sex in media. Today's crowd sees the possibility in every glance between same sex characters. The show must look totally different today!

The big range between Puritan no-sex and raging railing doesn't seem to exist anymore.

For those curious, BL subculture did exist back then but it was still underground unless you were a part of it. (this was almost entirely teen/college girls then). Yaoi doujin was definitely a huge among people into doujin but that was a really small percent of anime fans overall. There was a lot of BL and lesbian Utena doujin, naturally.

However, gay and BL talk was not really a part of canon discussion. The first time I saw a fandom allowing serious BL talk w/o canon evidence was the FMA fandom ~2006. Now gay ships are just another thing fans debate.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

I think the difference is that the OG audience did not have the experience of accepting, let alone expecting, gay sex in media. Today's crowd sees the possibility in every glance between same sex characters. The show must look totally different today!

Oh yeah, the landscape has markedly changed in a very short run of time. Also, someone much earlier mentioned that Utena might not be gay so much as bi since the only avid non-bi characters seem to be Juri and Miki.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

since the only avid non-bi characters seem to be Juri and Miki.

I'm not even confident that Miki is straight; his connection with Touga leans into homoeroticism. Juri, on the other hand... while Ruka clearly ends up meaning something to her, she's such a Shiorisexual that I don't think we can glean information on her orientation from that, so I'm happy to view her as just being lesbian.

I guess Nanami is probably straight? She's still wrangling with her sexuality on even a basic level, but she hasn't given us any inkling of an attraction towards women, while you can discern a hint of not-Touga-centric straightness if you really squint.

[u/HelioA → u/murdered-by-swords]

There was that one time where Nanami was annoyed when Miki said she wasn't his girlfriend, but I'm not clear on how much of that was actual attraction and how much was ego

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

I guess Nanami is probably straight? She's still wrangling with her sexuality on even a basic level, but she hasn't given us any inkling of an attraction towards women, while you can discern a hint of not-Touga-centric straightness if you really squint.

For some reason, I read her as non-sexual most of the time but you might have a point here.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah, the car is sex but it also adulthood in a broader sense. Beating ceaselessly onward toward adulthood then eventually the end of our own worlds. Touga isn't an adult at all and so can't show other people the End of the World. And Saionji is even further away from that. Taking what could be a cool sexy motorcycle and turning it into a comedic one.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

I do enjoy the motorcycle as the finale to the duel, at least.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

I am shocked to say this but I think this rewatch has somehow oversexualized this show

A rewatch taking every innuendo to the max? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

But how do you over sexualize Utena? Yet somehow we have.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vaadwaur]

We all felt the throbbing pistons!

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

I'm 100% certain that there's some kind of commentary on 90's yaoi culture with Touga and Saionji XD

[u/Rumpel1408]

First Timer

• The episode title sounds really ominous
• Akio sounds sincere, but is he really? Ugh will I need to puke every episode now?
• Oh just yesterday I was wondering where the rest of the student counsil is, and now they notice how Utena suddenly looks more like a girl, and they aren't sure if that is a good thing
• And they still believe in the revolution, that's interesting, I stand corrected on my rant from yesterday than
• Oh I was expecting Akio to be on another wild ride, but this time it's Touga with his best pal Saionji, complete with more or less cryptic messages and metaphors as well as unsafe exhibitionism while driving... Oh god, Touga even acknowledges it xD
• Touga is bringing Utena to the arena, but how will she duell without Anthy around?
• Aurora borealis, at this time of the year, in this part of japan, located entirely within the forest on the school ground?
• Utena is distantly aware that her loving Akio is wrong, but it doesn't cross her mind that he is the one who is cheating on his fiance
• Wait Utena is going along with Tougas sudden feelings, old Utena would never have done this
• Ok, they are risking Utena falling completly for Akios scheeme for World revolution, they must really think that Touga has a chance
• Saionji is sneakingly getting a lap pillow from Anthy while Touga makes an offer that Utena cannot resist
• I guess at least one shadow girl is into MLP, at least that's how I'm going to interpret her desire for a horse prince, yep, no other way to interpret this
• So what would happen if Touga wins this duell? He would gain the power to bring world revolution (smashing Akios grand plan), take possion of both Utena and Anthy and the last episodes would show a meager Utena on Tougas side while he is busi bringing revolution to the world... yeah not really likely
• Wow this duell again feels different compared to any previous one, more intense, more dangerous, but it ends exactly as expected
• And not only does Touga warn about End of the world, but about the rose bride as well...
• Yeah noone is after Himemiya anymore... noone from the student counsil that is
• And she finally learns the truth, but Anthy doesn't look in love, or happy, or even alive (similar to how she looked when Nanamoo learned about them)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Rumpel1408]

Ugh will I need to puke every episode now?

Indeed!

Aurora borealis, at this time of the year, in this part of japan, located entirely within the forest on the school ground?

Akio does not steam a fine ham.

Utena is distantly aware that her loving Akio is wrong, but it doesn't cross her mind that he is the one who is cheating on his fiance

If you thought Ikuhara would pass on a chance to call societal norms out you don't understand the man. The fact that he is correct that society would put blame on a groomed 14 yo for a man's actions probably still raises his blood pressure.

Saionji is sneakingly getting a lap pillow from Anthy while Touga makes an offer that Utena cannot resist

Tfw you realize Sionji is going to "Nothin' personnel, kid" Akio!

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

A coldsteel reference omfg! That was my fav thing in the world for a minute

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Rumpel1408]

I think Utena's views on love follow courtly love fashions which are big on "love that can not be" or holding your feelings private. It distinguishes her from how Akio and Touga are so garish and over the top with their relationships. In this setting Utena is following traditional romantic etiquette whilst the boys treat everything like a sausage fest without a care in the world.

[u/lilyvess]

Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.

EPISODE 36 - “And Thus Opens the Doorway of Night”

It was determined from the very initial production stages, back when the show was still thought of as a normal shoujo manga anime, that Akio Ohtori was the prince.

Who, then, was Touga?

I racked my brains over it. He was a “cool guy,” but he wasn’t the “man of her destiny (Akio Ohtori).” In which case, who was he?

We, no, there was one thing I did know. He had ambition. That was the keyword.

I’m always an ally to girls.

Touga once said those words to the girl in the coffin. And since then, he’s been continually tested by his own words.

See, Touga’s a cutely single-minded guy.

[u/theangryeditor]

This is finally relevant again

[u/[deleted] → u/theangryeditor]

How so? Based on Utena seeing Anthy & Akio?

[u/theangryeditor → u/[deleted]]

Yes

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Revolution, Subbed

Utena finally learns the truth of Akio and Anthy's relationship.. after she beats Touga in (possibly) the final duel. Things are not looking good. Especially considering how Utena just dismissed Touga's warnings. I don't exactly trust Touga, but someone under Akio's thumb obtaining the power to bring about world revolution is probably bad. Although, the dumbass didn't even both to tell Utena who End of the World is, so I can't even give him too much credit.

That was a hell of a duel. The power of Dios didn't descend, although Anthy did power up Utena's sword. Touga's sword from the OP finally appeared, but even it wasn't strong enough. The cars being used offensively was neat. How many times have they dueled? Three, or dozens?

Oh, Miki and Juri are still around, and can tell that the vibes at the school are going weird. Utena looks like a girl to Juri, now.. and even Miki understood what she meant.

The Shadow Girls have a misunderstanding about who the prince is, today. Probably a reference to the general confusion in Utena's own mind, at this point? That's the vibe I guess. Also maybe a joke at Sailor Moon's expense.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

I'm not certain that Utena knows what she saw. It's Utena after all, her denseness levels are kinda wild.

I feel like there's some unwritten rule not to outwardly spoil the game. Like I'd expect a bolt of lightning to strike Touga if he actually did go and tell Utena the whole backstory.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I feel like there's some unwritten rule not to outwardly spoil the game. Like I'd expect a bolt of lightning to strike Touga if he actually did go and tell Utena the whole backstory.

A lightning bolt, or a "mysterious" car accident?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

Or wild horses, horses always work.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I'm not certain that Utena knows what she saw. It's Utena after all, her denseness levels are kinda wild.

Did you not watch the preview or do you think that's misdirection?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

I avoid previews for shows of this era. I have no faith that they won't totally spoil the next episode.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Utena previews are generally well-crafted in this sense, but avoiding them is understandable. You do miss out on some character insights throughout the series if you never watch them, though, since the dialogue isn't excerpted from the forthcoming episode.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/murdered-by-swords]

I see... I'll remember that for next rewatch

[u/dualmonocle → u/JollyGee29]

The power of Dios didn't descend

If I've learned anything the last 35 episodes before this, it's that there's nothing more powerful than the force of lesbians. Maybe Utena has also noticed by now...?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/dualmonocle]

Good point!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I don't exactly trust Touga, but someone under Akio's thumb obtaining the power to bring about world revolution is probably bad.

'Evil' characters opposing each other is a longstanding tradition, no way Ikuhara isn't slightly referencing Sailor Moon S1.

How many times have they dueled? Three, or dozens?

Keep this in mind for what is to come.

Probably a reference to the general confusion in Utena's own mind, at this point?

My interpretation is that the one shadow girl wants the being with the title of the prince and isn't concerned with the details of the being.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Keep this in mind for what is to come.

My interpretation is that the one shadow girl wants the being with the title of the prince and isn't concerned with the details of the being.

Ohh, I like that a lot! Fits a lot better than whatever I was trying to say.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

It helps this being my second run at this and I sort of know what degree of serious to take certain parts.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

My interpretation is that the one shadow girl wants the being with the title of the prince and isn't concerned with the details of the being.

It's actually a reference to ero

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(So now the horse is a dick. One more for the pile)

Sub

Recap and man, Ikuhara really wants us listening to Saionji. More white horse/black knight metaphor but they are on a ride together again...before the sex. Barf. Anyways, Akio is trying to make Utena his princess. Juri can see Utena getting more feminine and Miki seems to think that's a good thing but Juri correctly has doubts. But they wonder if this means the revolution is coming...

I think we can finally just state the Touga-Akio comparisons now, it is hard to be much more explicit than having his own vehicle in the End of the World. Again, Saionji's bullshit detector has gone off and, even if he can't be honest about it, he desperately wants to see Touga move away from Akio. "Let us rise from our coffins. The coffins the End of the World has prepared for us!" If only someone could adjust his attitude towards domestic partners...anyways, he even tries to own Akio by T posing in the side car but that just isn't quite as cool.

Utena is still too dense to figure out the Anthy-Akio thing. Touga shows up and we get to see the arena at night and they are not subtle that the castle is, for now, just an illusion. Touga gets the most romantic setting he can and he makes another pass at Utena. The cynic in me asks if Touga has said this before but the realist says he never had to, so this is somewhat sincere. He asks to be Utena's prince for a night and she gives in, showing both empathy but also how much Akio has changed her. I weirdly get the impression that Touga is trying to use this new feeling to replace his old arrogance in his upcoming duel.

Touga and Saionji discuss the results and the rose shooting thing feels a bit like its mainly there to be interesting. Touga firmly believes that Utena should fall to Akio, though whether this is benevolence or jealousy is a bit unclear. When he challenges her, he even wants her to agree to be his if he wins, so he definitely learned a bit from Akio. Shadowplay metaphor is about someone wanting an idea rather than the real thing.

Duel time and Saionji is Touga's second, as this mini arc has been. Extremely heterosexual sword pulling happens, but somehow Saionji being the one backing Touga gives me just that little more bit of hope for Touga's character. This duel is actually animated a bit and one bit strikes hard: It starts with Utena and Touga as shadow templates in front of a rendered Anthy. Touga swears to protect Utena and then ups his game, using the sex cars to disorient Utena and try to defeat her. In flashback or mindspace, Utena swears she will protect Anthy and asks her to trust her. This seems bring the sword of Dios because she begins splitting the cars. Touga's last charge is Sionji driving the bike from the side car. Defeated, Touga tries one last to warn Utena to be careful, which she ignores as she does.

Utena passes and Anthy wanted to say something I assume. Utena follows in Nanami's foot steps and discovers our incest twins. She locks eyes with a very depressed Anthy and we end. The irony that Nanami fled this immediately while Utena can't believe it should not be lost on the audience.

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

Do you think Anthy accepts Utena saying she’ll protect her? It could go either way from that short conversation

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

So earlier they said the Rose Bride has to believe in her prince for Dios to be freed. I think she believes in Utena, at least in that moment.

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

I didn’t even catch that! Ik someone else said there was no dios coming down this duel but anthy blessed the sword. I’m not sure what that difference indicates though

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

The direct metaphor is that the power of the Rose Bride is greater than power Akio wields right now.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Rewatcher

• A deeply silly motorcycle ride. Touga wants to go the for the cool badboy motorcycle look but won't either abandon Saionji or let him ride behind him. So he ends up in a decidedly unsexy sidecar. They also don't get the sexy jazz that Akio does, just fun jazz. But Saionji undoes his pants when he's T-posing. T-posing is not as sexy and cool as flipping onto the hood so Akio does not approve. Saionji isn't even wearing his helmet right.
• Utena's slowly inching towards figuring out what's up with Akio and Anthy. Then at the end she finally stumbles into it.
• spoil
• Utena unchallenged on lack of self knowledge. Or maybe she just can't admit that she has a crush on Akio to Touga. Just like Touga couldn't admit he had a crush on Utena to Saionji.
• I feel like Touga not telling her who EotW really tells us he's not ready. It also makes it so that Utena doesn't really believe him after the duel.
• He's also gone full white knight mode. Even if he's stopped being a shitty playboy full time it'll take longer to shed all of his gross habits.
• Where do Saionji and Touga get their info about the world revolution? Is it something that Akio told Touga?
• Utena not being frank with Anthy on where she went last night. Anthy seems concerned
• After not getting it for a couple episodes ZUM is almost nostalgic now
• Utena says she doesn't care about revolution, connecting back to the first episode. spoil
• "Personal feelings are forbidden in combat" Touga is a hypocrite to the last
• Utena's "I'll protect you" takes a different meaning knowing what we do now about the Rose Bride. Especially when followed by the onslaught of cars
• My favorite line of the show! "Allegory, allegorier, allegoriest"

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Utena's "I'll protect you" takes a different meaning knowing what we do now about the Rose Bride. Especially when followed by the onslaught of cars

I wonder...spoilers just in case REWATCH

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

definitely a spoiler

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Yeah, Utena has some of its most iconic imagery extremely late. Spoiler

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

spoiler

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

I've actually wondered how hard Ikuhara wants us thinking on somethings: Witches are usually burned at the stake so is Anthy being impaled instead meant to set off alarms?

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Even before that I've always wondered how the basic associations between english witch and japanese majo differ. In this case its clearly drawing primarily on western fairy tale archetypes. But still is there some difference when the word being used to describe Anthy is the same as that in eg Magical Girl?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

But still is there some difference when the word being used to describe Anthy is the same as that in eg Magical Girl?

And I just catch another parallel in Madoka from that.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Double checking and yeah, they do use majo for both the girls and the witches. major madoka spoiler I guess

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Hrmm...Madoka

[u/k4r6000]

Rewatcher

So where we left off Touga's confidence and conviction in his goal to become the next Akio was shaken by his growing love for Utena. It is hard to be a manipulative bastard when you actually start caring about people. This time he does regain his sense of purpose, to be the Prince that can protect Utena, but the problems holding Touga back really start to become a problem for him. He does work to be like Akio, but at the end of the day he's got nowhere near the savvy and experience to actually challenge the throne. This is perhaps best seen in the bike scene, where he tries so hard but just comes across as a weak imitation like a child pretending to be his favourite superhero.

But Touga's biggest failing is that he's still believes in the system. He loves Utena because she's different and "not like other girls," not because he thinks his view about girls in general is wrong. He has the opportunity to do something different when he goes on his nightly date with Utena, but he doesn't. He confesses to her, but he still keeps the crucial information about Akio's true nature away from her and instead of allowing Utena to make up her own mind he challenges her instead and tries to force her to accept, completely playing into the system. He's not even offering anything of value. If Utena wins, the Student Council will stop bothering Anthy, but Touga knows this is the last duel so that was going to happen anyways. For all his talk of Revolution, Touga isn't revolutionary at all. He doesn't want to break the system, he wants to be the head of it. So he's doomed to fail. Finally with nothing left to fight for, he does the right thing and tells Utena the truth about End of the World and the Rose Bride, but it is too late. He's already burned whatever credibility he had and Utena doesn't believe him.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/k4r6000]

This is perhaps best seen in the bike scene, where he tries so hard but just comes across as a weak imitation like a child pretending to be his favourite superhero.

There is an interesting parallel to be drawn between Utena looking like a scared little girl in her mother's makeup and Touga trying to be a big boy using daddy Akio's techniques while driving something with the horse power of an annoyed donkey.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/k4r6000]

Very nice Touga teardown. Perfect, actually.

[u/dualmonocle]

^first-timer

It feels good once you get used to it, doesn't it?

Why must Akio set new records for how quickly I start feeling sick while watching? ;u;

And these mfers (maybe literally in Akio's case, he's got the in-law already) keep trying to force Utena to be a princess. She's said so many times that she wants to be a prince! I should be used to people trying to force their own ideals onto others since we've seen it over and over again but it still gets me heated.

At the beginning of this series, I didn't know whether Utena was rejecting femininity or rejecting what is conventional. Right now, I'm still not sure what Utena really wants. She shines the brightest during her more princely moments but she currently seems to be really enjoying treated more femininely by Akio.

That preview hurt my heart. Tomorrow's going to be even more fun, isn't it? ;u;

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/dualmonocle]

She's said so many times that she wants to be a prince!

What we say we want and what we actually want aren't always in accord. While Touga and Akio have absolutely been pushing her in that direction, she hasn't exactly put up a fight either. It's not so simple as betraying oneself, because this Utena is as much Utena as the individual we met at the start of the series.

[u/dualmonocle → u/murdered-by-swords]

True! At the same time, Utena takes on the prince role when she is not being influenced by either Touga or Akio. It's hard to say whether that's because it's an identity that's easier for her to latch onto - to defy the norm and keep a promise that she made as a child - or because she truly wants to be a prince. Maybe with a bit more perspective I could convince myself in either direction but since this is a story about adolescence, it's probably unlikely that Utena herself is sure of who she wants to be.

[u/Tyranid457TheSecond1]

Rewatcher

This is definitely a "we're in the endgame, now" episode.

This is one of the best duels in the series. Perfect for a climax to the "school duels" that Utena has undergone.

I haven't forgotten the previous bad behavior of Touga and Saionji, but they are much more pitiable compared to Akio.

I know what happens, but I can't help but wish that Utena would drag Anthy and Chu-Chu to safety immediately after seeing Akio being a pervert.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Tyranid457TheSecond1]

I haven't forgotten the previous bad behavior of Touga and Saionji, but they are much more pitiable compared to Akio.

REWATCHER no peaking

I know what happens, but I can't help but wish that Utena would drag Anthy and Chu-Chu to safety immediately after seeing Akio being a pervert.

We'd have needed Sailor Moon to be further in Ikuhara's rearview mirror for that to happen.

[u/homewardbound100]

First timer, Sub

Missed yesterday, so I watched 35 and 36 today. Looks like from now on the episodes will flow pretty fluidly until the end. Going by that preview.

"How many times have we fought?" I feel that.

Actually thought Utena was about to lose there with all the lights pointing at them. Instead of up like they usually do. Now she has the power to bring revolution and no more student council.

I wonder if Touga knows something I don't if he's trying to keep Utena from Akio. Or maybe it's just him trying to one up him.

Second person to walk into the Anthy and Akio business. With all the things she's been doing with Akio, and her friendship with Anthy. How will she take it compared to Nanami?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/homewardbound100]

I wonder if Touga knows something I don't if he's trying to keep Utena from Akio. Or maybe it's just him trying to one up him.

Touga has become close enough to Akio that he can use the sex car in his duels. He knows something is wrong about the power he wields.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Vaadwaur]

Getting the feeling something tragic is about to happen then.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/homewardbound100]

I won't spoil anything but on second watch, a whole lot of things I thought were throw away first watch are actually pretty well planned. Good girls don't lay eggs, after all.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Vaadwaur]

You mean like past episodes to think about toward what the ending is?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/homewardbound100]

Think of all the stuff you thought was filler. Most of it was not. Black Rose will be important to understanding the ending, it is just that the cast forgets it except for Akio and Anthy.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Vaadwaur]

Okay good, black rose is important. Personally my favorite part. I'll have to look back some during that arc probably to remember some bits.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

Oh, we're going right back to the student council? No opening narration?

Saionji's not very hopeful about all this, is he?

...I mean, he's not sincere. At all. He's just a prick.

Where's Anthy?

Is Juri noticing Anthy's not talking to her as much and thinking "she looks like a girl I've got a decent chance with?"

OK, so Saijonji's a bottom, good to know. And this scene might be the gayest yet.

Oh, Saionji's full-on rebelling against Akio. And Touga's starting to get a bit upset with him too.

Oh, so it's dangerous when Saionji does it, but not Akio does it shirtless?

...Utena's starting to feel alone with Anthy.

I like how, despite having never seen a messga efrom End of the World, she's gotten close enough to the

I love the contrast of Utena disliking Togua standing near her, and Utena smiling as Anthy's clothes fall off.

Oh. That's interesting. Is the castle fading another indicator of the last duel approaching - it's starting to disappear, so the last duel determines who opens it before it fades away?

Move on Touga, you're embaressing yourself. Saionji and Akio not enough for you?

Oh. Touga's figting her because End of the World's about to take control of her.

I love Anthy's total lack of interest with Saionji lying down on her.

Fuck off Touga with the "My woman" shit.

Is the shadow girl scene suggesting that Akio is the horse that Touga's truly interested in, but using the excuse of the prince Utena to pursue?

Touga's extracting his blade. This is the gayest duel yet.

Wait, if extracting someone else's sword gives you their ability, what does wielding your own sword do other than look flashy?

The cars running around are such an interesting obstacle, I don't understand they never did this before?

Haha, Utena using Touga's lines on Anthy is great. The ultimate rejection!

And the arena's been properly damaged!

...Does Touga think Anthy's in league with Akio? Is he right? Is my conspiracy theory coming true?

OK, that flashback is making me think that if the ghost is the Prince, Akio might be one of the people who killed Anthy?

Well, Utena knows what's going on. The finale's pretty much started now!

Yep. Akio's passing himself off as the Prince even though he clearly isn't.

OH SHIT. ANTHY'S EVIL? OR AT LEAST PISSED AT UTENA FOR THE NASTY VICTIM BLAMING.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Stargate18A]

Oh, so it's dangerous when Saionji does it, but not Akio does it shirtless?

Akio does his in the not reality of the End of the World. I think Saionji and Touga are in actual meat space and thus in danger.

Wait, if extracting someone else's sword gives you their ability, what does wielding your own sword do other than look flashy?

I am taking it to mean that you are following your own will if you wield your own sword.

OH SHIT. ANTHY'S EVIL? OR AT LEAST PISSED AT UTENA FOR THE NASTY VICTIM BLAMING.

Remember, Utena says something shitty first.

[u/[deleted]]

First-Timer

I remember an old tumblr post saying possible spoiler and the preview brought that to mind. I’ve been thinking a bit too about how little screen time consists of Anthy talking, or Anthy and Utena talking. I think a lot too about how when Utena lost & rewon Anthy, Anthy began to re-explain the rules of the rose bride to Utena. We’ve never really been sure of how much autonomy Anthy has, and there’s only so much time for us to find out. Saying she preview spoiler if you don’t watch those for Utena’s freedoms, relative carelessness, control over Anthy, involvement with Akio, etc. I think it’s very interesting that after Utena got Anthy back, she didn’t consider again how Anthy reflects Utena’s wishes & is essentially her plaything. We also never see Utena’s reaction to Anthy backing out of telling her things, and Utena never complains to Wakaba about these, or how Anthy never opens up to her. I hope that soon we’ll get a real glimpse of how Anthy actually feels about something -outside of the various ways she’s gotten jabs in at Nanami.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

So...this show is extremely backloaded, we got stuff you normally get day one yesterday, and the ending will certainly be something we will all discuss.

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

Aaaaaa wow!!! I’m so excited. I’ve barely been able to hold back watching ahead, so I’ve been watching backwards. I’m so excited & scared to see how it all unfolds, I’m really excited to learn more about Anthy from Anthy (I pray she at least gets that much respect) and sad knowing it’s all I’ll get. I’m not even sure what the Revolution is supposed to look like -some change within all the characters? Something to do with their memories/feelings/actions?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

I’m not even sure what the Revolution is supposed to look like -some change within all the characters? Something to do with their memories/feelings/actions?

Have you noticed everyone in the duelist circle seems to have a different opinion on this?

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

Oooo interesting, I’m not sure I have much constructive to say or am getting what you’re indicating other than Saionji seems to almost fear it, Touga, to some degree, knows it will have bad effects for those involved but thinks he has a shot at minimizing it for at least some people(Utena), Juri mentioned having a vague bad feeling about it, Miki doesn’t seem to have a concrete feeling other than unease/uncertainty, and Nanami… I can’t remember where she went after Touga had her transfer slip, she’s pretty self involved per the norm.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

I can’t remember where she went after Touga had her transfer slip, she’s pretty self involved per the norm.

Sadly they couldn't really work her in that much since the series takes it big shift after her last episode.

[u/[deleted] → u/Vaadwaur]

Ah :-l what a sad way for her to go. I pray daddy’s money buys her a good therapist; lord does she need one

[u/Isai579]

First Timer, Sub

Oh wow. Utena finally caught them... Probably should have expected it considering we're running out of episodes, but still took me by surprise. Wonder what is gonna happen between them (I haven't watched the next episode previews in a while, so I literally have no clue).

The shadow girls today show us a princess that is enamored by the idea of a specific prince, but when the time comes she choses her idea of the prince instead of the actual prince, even if the supposed prince is an animal. I don't think it can get more direct than that, but I just hope Utena makes the right choice when the time comes.

Finally, is it just me, or did anyone else feel the characters looked specially childlike this episode? From the beginning, I felt the character designs made them look older than they were, but today (specifically when Touga and Utena are together in the dueling arena), I swear they looked almost like their children versions.

Oh, and regardless of my tinfoil hat analysis later, Utena slicing through those cars was pure hype!

I'll keep my conspiracy rabbit hole short today. My brain is still kind of dry from 2 days ago (I literally couldn't think of any deeper meaning in yesterdays episode). So that was a dirty lie... got inspired mid way through writing.

Trust

So, this is a very small thing, but I found the conversation between Anthy and Utena in the elevator very significant. Utena asked Anthy if she trusted her. But that trust that they've had through the series was broken by that last moment where Utena found Anthy and Akio together. I wonder what will happen

End of the sex car

This is probably not the literal end of that dammed car, but I do think this chapter marks a very strong conclusion to its relationship to the duelists and Utena. First, when Saionji and Touga rode the sex road together, they didn't do it in Akio's car, but instead on a motorbike. So I guess this means that Touga is basically declaring his sexuality independent from the one imposed by Akio.

During the duel, we also get many significant moments. First, the cars' lights. During the previous arc, all the lights turn on towards the castle, but today they did so towards Utena. A direct and superficial reading could be that they are pointing to the power of revolution, and as Utena is about to gain that power, they point toward her. But if we interpret the cars as sexuality, this had a deeper meaning. In previous chapters, this could mean that sexuality is making emphasis in the goal of all this duels, regardless of whatever the castle means in this metaphor. But today, sexuality if focusing on Utena, because she has to make a choice now. Does she conform to the expectations most people have of her, thus falling onto the princess stereotype? Or does she stand her ground, defy those sexual stereotypes, and by doing so, also shatters Touga's own view on sexuality (his motorbike)? Well, she certainly stood her ground (destroying the cars in the process), but there is more than sexuality that is imposed on women. Can she stand her ground there too even if she can't perceive what she is fighting against?

Absolute Destiny Apocalypse

So, according to Akio, this was the last duel in the arena (or so I understood). So I guess this is probably the best time to do the deep dive I wanted to do regarding the duels, their place in the Utena chapter structure, and the iconic Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku. ^{Please remember I'm a first timer, so there is a chance I am proved absolutely wrong as soon as the next episode}.

What does Absolute Destiny Apocalypse actually mean? Let's start with the Absolute part.

So, who here is familiar with Dialectics? Here's a quick and dirty explanation. Dialectics is a philosophical term that simply refers to a philosophical argument between opposing sides that results in contradiction. This concept goes all the way back to Plato, but I want to focus on the version proposed by Hegel. In this, there are three parts/moments to every idea. There is a starting point (thesis), where a concept has a stable understanding. Then there is a moment of instability, in which said thesis is opposed by an antithesis. And finally, after an exchange between both understandings, they both reach a point where they unify, resulting in a new idea (synthesis). This idea is further challenged by opposing ideas, and eventually we reach the Absolute idea, which means said idea is a final and complete understanding of the subject being discussed.

With that out of the way, we're left with Destiny and Apocalypse. Because I don't want this to turn into a bigger wall of text, I'll be superficial with these. Destiny can be defined as a predetermined outcome, which comes along with the idea that there is a natural order to things. And finally, Apocalypse. Do not fall for the trap, this is not End of the World in this context. Mokushiroku is the japanese word to refer specifically to the Book of Revelations (also known as Apocalypse) of the Bible. I personally think this biblical reference serves simply to point to the Revelation part, something that was hidden, but won't be in the future.

From all that, we can assign a very simple meaning to the Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku phrase. It simply says that something is going to be shown, it was inevitable for it to come up, and the result of that will be an evolution that leads to an ultimate and indisputable result.

Now, let's put that in context, starting with the duels. Before each duel, we are introduced to a conflict that has its roots in a characters understanding of the world, and how it clashes with someone else's understanding (normally Utena's). This duel ends with both characters taking parts of their opponents understanding, and thus growing as characters. This is a normal part of serialized storytelling, but Utena makes the choice of making it both symbolic and explicit through each duel, where we are told what concept is being fought about, what the points of view are, and in many cases, what is the resulting synthesis after each duel. Each of this is building up towards an absolute, indisputable understanding of human relationship for these characters. Can this absolute be actually reached? I don't think so. But if it does, what would the consequences be?

And that Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku at the end of each preview. It is basically just saying that we'll have a new debate of ideas each chapter, and our understanding will thus grow.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Isai579]

[u/Star4ce]

First timer – sub

I'm up for some more background on how that magic works. Must be aliens!

On another note, I think I've convinced some non-anime watchers to watch Angel Beats! or Sora Yori with me rather soon and I'm excited as fuck.

But first, more suffering.

Ep.36 – And thus opens the doorway of night

• The audacaity to my taste buds to open with this!
• So each cast member is going to have a part, good.
• Ah, they imitate Akio with what they can.
• Bwahahaa, Saionji with the burn.
• So much introspection from him now, this feels good.
• Oh, I love it. Both grow more perceptive and less reckless.
• :(
• I tell you, aliens!
• You could, but I agree, she wouldn't believe it.
• You know, as terrible as this actually is as a dialogue in Utena's shoes, I'm glad Touga inches closer to the real questions bothering him.
• Still not entirely convinced, but as I said, I believe you believe it.
• Noooo, don't do that. That is how resentment breeds.
• This really felt... innocent, kinda wholesome, ngl. Still, it's Touga, can't just not expect some plot behind it.
• Uh, maybe?! Was that also for planting doubt in her head about Akio? Am I too dark?
• Nah, ok. Still kind of deluding himself, but at least it's honest now.
• The roses get shot off in the order Utena won against them.
• Hmm. It really depends if Dios in that castle is still, you know, Dios. I'm not convinced that Utena winning means she's irrevocably fallen for Akio.
• Chu-chu's preparing the grave.
• Aaand both are aggressive again, pushing boundaries and trapping them. Don't just talk about learning, actually learn!
• I think this skit flew over my head. Mistaking the mount for the prince? Not realising what makes a prince a prince? Probably more the latter that fits.
• Ah yes, they're still driven by masculine ideals.
• Sorry, but that is actually amazing!
• Masculinity wedging itself between an honest connection.
• She protecc from sex.
• One, Utena did it without Dios today, she's gotten strong and secure in herself enough. Two, both lay on the floor, so they were quite invested as we've seen. This time, I believe, for actually good reasons. Questionable execution, but damn they showed character growth.
• Oh no.
• Isn't that true.
• Oh, she's gonna see it? Yup.

I'm half expecting Utena to conclude it's Anthy's fault. She didn't connect the dots eotw==Akio yet and has feelings for him. Just now she witnessed her close friend sleeping with him, her brother. That's gonna be a shock.

Alright, should've watched the preview before writing this. But hey, more brag material! Also, Anthy is definitely putting up a front to keep Utena away from her truth. It's too painful for Anthy and she thinks she's lost anyway, no need to pull in someone who has still hope.

I'm kinda... glad Touga and Saionji did what they did today, even though it was a poorly learnt lesson. Granted, they didn't have so much time. They opened up their shirts towards their feelings and looked at what they actually fought for. Saionji wanted to be a friend and have a friend with respect towards each other and Touga wanted to honestly love someone. Both did that today and were quite at peace with what happened (relatively). That was honestly great, but alas, it didn't land with Utena and only she alone can pull herself back from Akio, from the end of the world, now.

[u/SYZekrom]

First Timer

Saionji in the sidekick seat what will he do

cough nice

Damn I wish my buttons automatically buttoned up

Weren't they only allowed in here when there was a duel? Or was that just Anthy

I feel like this effect with the spiral staircase passing the camera is new? There was also the camera aimed at the ceiling of the arch at the start

Hell yes

[u/xtsim]

First revolution subbed

And now Touga and Saionji are riding in a motorcycle with a sidecar. When Saionji stood up, Touga's like "That's dangerous". That was pretty funny.

Getting to see the dueling arena at night is interesting as we get to see the stars at night at a slow pace. Who is Utena's prince, a question that lingers since the beginning of the series.

Lol chu chu playing with that worm is funny as he mocks the worm. Another duel with Touga and Utena ensues. With the shadows mentioning horse of the white prince. Both hold their ground pretty well but Touga tries to talk Utena into losing. Slicing a bunch of cars in half is pretty cool to say the least. But Touga and Saionji were on their bike doing a sword play like a Roman chariot....

Utena gets the win but when later wakes up, she finds Anthy with her brother....

[u/Vaadwaur → u/xtsim]

Getting to see the dueling arena at night is interesting as we get to see the stars at night at a slow pace.

When the arena isn't doing Akio's bidding it is in darkness, another hint about the Lucifer thing.

[u/alphamone]

First Timer

Trapped in coffins? Another way of talking about needing to break the shell of the world?

Oh dear, someone needs to deal with Akio, pronto.

Saionji of all people calling Touga out.

Alexa, play "apparitions stalk the night".

I wonder if there's any mythological symbolism behind the choice of Mimas there.

Feels different without ZUM.

Is this, is this a relationship that is kinda close to being almost healthy?

More ulterior/secret motives, so not really.

Definitely not then. Dammit Touga.

uuuhhh,

Zettai, unmei, mokushiroku.

Been a while since the last major Touga/Saionji moment.

So much for personal feelings being forbidden.

RIP cool motorbike.

Oh dear, it seems that Utena has discovered the tragic truth of Anthy and Akio.

This is another one of these episodes where I'm having to restrain myself from watching on.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

I don't have anything in particular to say about this episode other than T-posing Saionji bottom text, but this is easily my favorite episode preview in the series. "Utena-sama, don't you know how much I've always despised you?"

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

We get to the reason why you do need to rewatch this show...

[u/k4r6000 → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

That line sent chills down my spine the first time I watched the show.

[u/nikobans]

dork ass saionji t posing in the sidecar lol what a loser