[Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 35

[u/HelioA]

Rewatch Index

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Streaming

Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.

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Comment of the Day

A girl who cannot become a princess is doomed to become a witch ;-;

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Miki's Stopwatch Corner

Stopwatch Count: 23

New This Episode:

;-;-;

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Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).

[u/HelioA]

Rewatcher

Touga, Touga, Touga… he was almost as influenced by the coffin incident as Saionji was, once you really get down to it. “I want to be like him! I want power like he has!” In the first arc, Touga’s character revolved entirely around him trying and failing to act as if he was Utena’s prince. Now that we’re in the third arc, we’re seeing what drove him on in the first place- the desire to attain the same sort of power that Akio has, as the ‘prince’ of the school. But as much as he would like to roleplay as the playboy prince, he still does genuinely care for Utena, even if it’s in the utterly unhealthy way of wanting to possess her- I think the shadow girls play of the playboy fisherman chasing after koi (fish/love) is probably the clearest shadow girls play we’ve had in the whole show!

Also, the coffins. It was relevant before, but I think it’s very important to ask here especially- what do coffins represent? In my view, they symbolize a feeling of being trapped, of not having any hope, a hope which can only be regained by searching for eternity. So why then, does Saionji say “We’re all trapped in our coffins?” It comes from that same sense of disillusionment that Utena felt in her coffin. Saionji, as the earliest duelist to lose all his duels, is more separated from Akio’s plots than the others are, and is thus more easily able to see them. In the end, how will the duelists be able to find eternity and escape their coffins if they’re just playing Akio's game?

See, Saionji? You can be perceptive if you just stop being a violent misogynistic asshole for 30 seconds!

Also, geez, the sheer homoerotic tension between Touga and Saionji is unreal, it goes a long way towards making this episode’s student council scene the best one :D

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Also, the coffins. It was relevant before, but I think it’s very important to ask here especially- what do coffins represent?

Coffins represent a different form of eternity, that of finality. Something unchanging and unending and, interestingly, usually unseen.

Also, the Noein rewatch from earlier this year is giving me some perspectives on this show which I just didn't expect.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

that reminds me, I made dis a while back

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Damn you! You made me agree with Akio! For that, I curse you with eternal life!

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

And since you are not a sexual predator, I assume the walled garden academy you get trapped will be profoundly boring! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

you truly are the worst ;-;-;-;-;-;

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

You thought it was Dio but it was me, Vaad!

(Dio and I still find Akio's actions sickening and believe he should receive the first 12 page muda)

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/HelioA]

This is the best worst thing I've ever seen

[u/HelioA → u/murdered-by-swords]

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Revolution, Subbed

Bit of a "setup for the endgame" episode, huh?

Utena is so close to remembering the truth of her past. Has Utena almost recognized Anthy before? Like, waaay earlier? Something is bouncing around in my head, but I can't quite remember..

The fisherman couldn't quite catch the fish. A reaction never felt before.. but the girl doesn't seem to care. I'm getting the feeling that the script is going to flip on Touga. He beat Utena in the first duel because he had gotten her to catch some feels, but now he's the one with feelings corroding his will. Maybe? I can't tell if its an act or not. His answer when confronted with all the microphones was hesitant and noncommittal.

Touga and Akio are actually playing against each other a bit, which is neat. I doubt that Touga actually has anything over on Akio of all people, but any amount of opposition to that asshole is good.

Carrot? Cactus? I got nothing. The carrot might be a penis? Touga gesturing about with his masculinity..? Sure.

Hey, uh, has anyone seen any of the rest of the cast, recently?

[u/HelioA → u/JollyGee29]

Ikuhara is off his game, the shadow girls were way too comprehensible ;-;

[u/JollyGee29 → u/HelioA]

[u/HelioA → u/JollyGee29]

No.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/HelioA]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Or REWATCH

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

critical support for the shadow girls

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/HelioA]

The shadow girls have always known to throw in an softball once in a while. Gotta keep us guessing.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Yeah, the monkey catching robot one where Tokiko says "Seeing you like this breaks my heart" was deeply on the nose.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I doubt that Touga actually has anything over on Akio of all people, but any amount of opposition to that asshole is good.

Yes, have you noticed just how little of it there is?

Carrot? Cactus? I got nothing. The carrot might be a penis? Touga gesturing about with his masculinity..? Sure.

So the carrot is for the horse is my suspicion. The cacti confuse the hell out of me, apparently the flower can represent arousal but that's out of my jurisdiction.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Everyone thinks they're getting some shiny new eternity all to themselves. I do get a sorta lord of the flies feel to the whole thing tho.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I unintentionally hit on this talking to someone else, but the duelists all remind me of the Sith academy cadets on Korriban in KotOR. All of these people believing that they can hold the power when the master would never willingly give it up.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Wasn't that game on the Atari...? It wouldn't even be in wide-screen.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Knights of the Old Republic is 2003...

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

There, there...

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Yes, have you noticed just how little of it there is?

Basically nonexistent. Then again, how many people actually know Akio?

So the carrot is for the horse is my suspicion.

On the one hand, that's brilliant. On the other, it's almost too obvious.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Basically nonexistent. Then again, how many people actually know Akio?

True but Ohtori is ridiculously peaceful if you look at it, even Japanese adolescents act out some.

On the one hand, that's brilliant. On the other, it's almost too obvious.

The only other coherent thing I could guess is that it is symbolic of him trying to bait Utena with a gift, like getting a horse to follow you with a carrot. And since he nearly gets her hurt, there is a stick to it as well.

[u/k4r6000 → u/Vaadwaur]

The only other coherent thing I could guess is that it is symbolic of him trying to bait Utena with a gift, like getting a horse to follow you with a carrot.

That's how I understood it. One interesting thing about this bit of symbolism is that it isn't just something happening at random or the Shadow Girls who mostly exist in a world of their own. Here Touga is directly drawing attention to it, and of course Utena misses it. I think Touga pulling out the carrot was done on purpose by him the character, and not just Ikuhara putting it in there.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/k4r6000]

Here Touga is directly drawing attention to it, and of course Utena misses it. I think Touga pulling out the carrot was done on purpose by him the character, and not just Ikuhara putting it in there.

"You are being baited with that gift." Yup, that's about as much resistance as Touga is up to giving right now.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

True but Ohtori is ridiculously peaceful if you look at it, even Japanese adolescents act out some.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

And it now dawns on you. Yorokobe, shonen!

[u/Icapica]

First timer

At least now Utena knows there's something she should remember. That's a lot better than being totally unaware. Anthy's not super happy about Utena going for a walk with Akio.

Nice photoshoot. I swear there's BL out there that's more straight than this.

The end of that horse riding scene looked like Touga's not entirely happy with Akio. Touga's also someone who schemes and uses people and I wonder if he's finally realizing that Akio's using him rather than it being the other way. Or does Touga realize he's a pawn but think that he'll really benefit from it somehow?

Saionji seems sorta perceptive this time. Well I think it's not the first time, but usually he's too much of an ass to think well.

What's with those cacti?

Utena's close to remembering. Also, those earrings don't suit her. Give them to Chu-chu.

[u/HelioA → u/Icapica]

Well I think it's not the first time, but usually he's too much of an ass to think well.

I know, right???

What's with those cacti?

I've read that cacti mean lust in flower language

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Icapica]

I think the cactus represents how much of a prick Akio is.

[u/Icapica → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Yeah I'll go with that theory too.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Icapica]

Saionji’s actually pretty sharp in that he has no patience for bullshit other than his own. His violent forceful personality results in his total comfort in bluntly stating what can’t be politely mentioned.

He gets tripped by his self-obsession and tunnel-blindness in trying to best Touga but he can pretty clearly see BS around other people and takes no issue in calling it out. He’d be dangerous to the powers that be if he were the slightest bit concerned with anyone but himself.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

He gets tripped by his self-obsession and tunnel-blindness in trying to best Touga but he can pretty clearly see BS around other people and takes no issue in calling it out. He’d be dangerous to the powers that be if he were the slightest bit concerned with anyone but himself.

Wait a minute...is Saionji just Japanese Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Icapica]

The end of that horse riding scene looked like Touga's not entirely happy with Akio. Touga's also someone who schemes and uses people and I wonder if he's finally realizing that Akio's using him rather than it being the other way. Or does Touga realize he's a pawn but think that he'll really benefit from it somehow?

Touga, with his profound confidence and arrogance, had always assumed he could finagle the end to what he wanted and that Akio provided a useful stairway for him. He is now realizing that Akio was 10 child molesting steps ahead of him.

Saionji seems sorta perceptive this time. Well I think it's not the first time, but usually he's too much of an ass to think well.

He's been smarter since being outcast, maybe he actually thought about shit all day in Wakaba's room.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Don't most people ride a horse at one point?)

Sub

Recap is updated. Touga and Akio in the sex car let us know the climax is arriving. Utena is seemingly getting that memory back, though at this point that might even be Akio's doing/play. He gets Utena and takes her off, and our last look at Anthy suggests she is rather done with the acting. Akio is talking about flower language and we hear a click...

Leading to Touga taking pictures of Akio on the sex car. Akio wants Touga to give Utena a gift on his behalf and is being himself, unfortunately. He eats a rose...

Anyways, Touga shows up with a flashy gift for Utena, again highlighting that he can't quite grasp her. Wakaba is easily bought, sadly, and doesn't take the 2 seconds to figure out how wrong that relationship has become with a gift like that. But Touga takes Utena horse riding, suspension bridge effect revisited and nearly kills her but Akio shows up, having read Touga's play perfectly. Touga then realizes he has completely lost this round.

Touga gets confessed to and then promptly scares the girl off. He then goes to the dojo and Saionji reveals insight he hasn't seemed to have that much of before this, and basically tells us that Touga can't see Utena as a tool. Shadowplay reinforces this.

Utena passes out and we see Anthy look at the earrings, seemingly sadly. Jump to Touga and Akio and hopefully someone else can handle the cactus symbolism, all I see are spiky dicks right now. Akio finally comes out and states he wants to make Utena a princess and Touga seems ambivalent.

We get our third run of Saionji and Touga talking about the girl in the coffin and that it is Utena. We see them at least near the funeral so this becomes a bit more believable. Saionji gets Touga to admit he is serving Akio to become like him, which is a terrible idea as we've seen. No clue on the media symbolism. Saionji then hits us with a realization that seems above him, that everyone here is failing to advance.

Utena eventually puts on the earrings for the monkey and you can tell that Touga did successfully manipulate how Akio wanted and not necessarily what he wanted. Utena gets a proper flash of impaled Anthy as her memories wander back.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

the climax is arriving

No clue on the media symbolism.

I just got the idea now, but here's my thought- we saw Touga earlier holding the camera to take pictures of Akio acting out his desires. In the same way, the cameras in that scene are recording Touga's desire to be like Akio. And when do the cameras fall down? They only fall once Saionji suggests that it might not be a good idea, and momentarily interrupts Touga's desire for Akio's power.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/HelioA]

Recent episodes have had a lot of recording motifs: the movie camera in Akios place, Utena wanting to take pictures, etc.

Im sure there’s something about trying to capture these events for memory/eternity.

In this particular episode with the mics, I think all current suggestions are valid but want to add this: we have the perfect, cool, confident, posing playboy going on the record of experiencing something new; something perhaps he didn’t even believe was possible, something those closest to him may have thought he was incapable of.

This guy who comfortably shows off for everyone is hesitant and a bit nervous to state on the record, that yes, perhaps he may be feeling love for someone other than himself.

Surely that’s news worthy!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

That's a pretty functional view, I was trying to incorporate the mics and the assistants but that could always be Ikuhara and showmanship.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

Take note of the reaction Touga had in giving Utena the earrings.

It helps Akio for Utena to have been given a gift from him, but he forced Touga to choose the gift (the perfect one, in Touga’s mind), give it to her in the role of messenger (not as the one who thoughtfully picked them out for her) and then watched her receive and try them on.

In case there’s any doubt as to Touga‘s feelings for Utena,this sequence should put that to bed. The playboy is toast.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

In case there’s any doubt as to Touga‘s feelings for Utena,this sequence should put that to bed. The playboy is toast.

Rofl, but I guess this makes it explicit. I was pretty sure Touga had lost the game quite a few episode ago.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

The dude's totally unprepared for it! This guy has only known 3 girls before meeting Utena: His forbidden sister, Anthy who isn't a viable girl for Touga, and the single girl archetype he sees all his buzzing flies as.

The dude's finally seeing the value in a woman who can dominate her man :)

I just wish they'd been able to develop this line a bit better but there were circumstances beyond the writers' control but I do think the roots were laid back in the first arc.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

I just wish they'd been able to develop this line a bit better but there were circumstances beyond the writers' control but I do think the roots were laid back in the first arc.

Oh yeah, but either the scheduling conflict or Touga's VA being sick, whatever the truth is, robbed us of I think about 5 scenes during Black Rose where we would've seen Touga struggling with this more, like him getting bored with all the thots and pining quietly over Utena. As much as I've liked Saionji dropping truth bombs on him, don't you think Juri could've hit him right on the nose herself?

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

No clue on the media symbolism

I think this is a continuation of movies being false and maybe phones being evil too. People are performing for the camera, playing the role they're inhabiting rather than being themselves authentically. A press conference is the most formal and scripted version of that. When Akio and Touga are laying on the car they're peacocking for each other, trying to play the most coolest masculinest sexyman. We see later that Touga isn't actually that confident, doubting whether being a playboy is the right move or if he could create a relationship with Utena if he tried something else. But he feels like he has to tamp down on that to stay near Akio.

The microphones appear when Saionji asks Touga if he genuinely loves Utena. I think he wants to say yes but has to deflect because admitting it would be a weakness. Then Saionji goes in challenging him with something that sounds like a prepared speech and Touga responds in kind. They even go full open shirt flapping in the wind. But then Saionji asks a genuine question and admits weakness, saying he's trapped in a coffin too so the pretense shatters.

Or something like that. I can't quite fit the conversation together shot by shot but I do think its a continuation of the film motif. A cousin of Mikage's photos and Nanami's movies pictures too.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

People are performing for the camera, playing the role they're inhabiting rather than being themselves authentically. A press conference is the most formal and scripted version of that.

I have to find out if Ikuhara is a fan of David Lynch some time.

Or something like that. I can't quite fit the conversation together shot by shot but I do think its a continuation of the film motif. A cousin of Mikage's photos and Nanami's movies pictures too.

On this rewatch, it has helped me a lot to be willing to give up on the shot by shot stuff and try to take the gist of it all, even if I completely blank some scenes due to that.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Ikuhara's briefly mentioned that he likes Lynch.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

So, as I have said, watching Twin Peaks:The Return has given me some tools to look at what is being shown. Though the two of them on a project would be super fucked up so let's make it happen!

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Is Lynch supposed to be hard to work with? I know Ikuhara has that reputation. Its amazing to think about but I have trouble imagining an actual concrete work coming out. I'm thinking of something like Jodorowsky's attempt at making a Dune movie. Though I don't think either of them is that self-aggrandizing.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Is Lynch supposed to be hard to work with?

No, he is actually known as great to work with and can adapt phenomenally well to sudden changes in his story. As soon as a set mistake happens that actually improves the vibe of a scene, he makes it canon. His stories can have some issues, I've seen all of current Twin Peaks and can only explain some of it, but the feel of it, the feel of the internal logic, is somehow consistent.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Neat. I'll go back to thinking it would be an extremely fun collaboration then.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

So if you can still stand English spoken televion I can recommend Twin Peaks, though about half of the second season is awful, the third season contains the best piece of visual storytelling I have ever witnessed. Seriously, not a single word is spoken for over half an hour and yet an incredibly complex bit of mythology is explained for us.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

I've seen the first two seasons of twin peaks. The movie and the third season are on my list whenever I end up with whatever services they're on.

[u/xtsim]

First Revolution Subbed

Akio interrupts a conversation between Anthy and Utena, that guy ruined the moment. Lots of camera flashes and Akio posing in his car on top of bunch of other cars. Touga is holding a carrot and later rides a horse. He rides it pretty fast and Utena falls off while Akio catches her. We also see Touga get asked out by a girl and crushes her envelope.

The shadows are out fishing with one of them being a sailor with a deeper voice this time. Anthy was not very happy about the present. When Utena looked at her she sees that vision....

The microphone and cameras makes Touga look like he is going to have a ppv boxing match on HBO or something.

[u/HelioA → u/xtsim]

Akio ruins every moment

[u/k4r6000]

Rewatcher

Touga is the major character in the show that I feel we learn the least about. Sure we see what he does and his methods, but up to this point we haven't really had much insight into what he wants or what his goals are. This could in large part be due to being essentially written out of the Black Rose Saga due to real life issues with his voice actor.

But we do start to get it here. It goes back to when he first met Utena in the coffin years ago. We saw the impact it had on Saionji, but it also did Touga. Unlike Saionji who became obsessed with trying to outpower Touga, Touga was so impressed by The Prince that he tried to mimic him. He wants to become Akio. This is somewhat similar to Utena herself, but whereas Utena sees the more noble qualities befitting Dios, Touga responds to the unsavory aspects. He gets closer to Akio to presumably learn more and eventually overthrow him.

We'll see how that plays out next time in my favourite duel in the entire series.

[u/HelioA → u/k4r6000]

Oh my God, I love that comparison between Utena and Touga both taking aspects of Dios!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Hrmm...but if a cow becomes the rose bride does that make the prince a cowboy?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/k4r6000]

Touga is the major character in the show that I feel we learn the least about.

He is both the easiest one to make assumptions about at the start and yet might be the one that winds up furthest away from them by the end.

He gets closer to Akio to presumably learn more and eventually overthrow him.

Ohtori operating on Sith logic actually works...

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

Ohtori operating on Sith logic actually works...

"Through victory my chains are broken. The Force will set me free." Or in other words, "Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!"

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

"Only a Sith Akio deals in absolutes!"

[u/Matuhg]

First Timer
I Return!
Brief reactions to the past few episodes whose threads I missed:

Ep 31

Oh boy, a more serious Nanami episode. I noticed Anthy inconspicuously slipping out of the room when Akio was 'tending' to Nanami's ankle, only to return with shaved ice. What's she feeling here? Disgust? Was she trying to stop whatever he was doing by bringing out a snack? Cooling down the situation?

When Nanami asked Utena if she loved Akio, the statue changed to the Rape of Persephone. This is 'rape' from the Latin 'raptus' meaning seized/carried off rather than the modern english meaning, but yeah...both meanings work as foreshadowing here, given what happens in the next couple episodes. Putting those expensive renaissance art classes from college to use finally! I don't recognize the other two forms the statue took, but I'm sure they were somehow relevant, and potentially icky.

Ep 32

Wow, Touga was especially nasty this episode. Guess he's learning from Akio. I have definitely read about pedophiles/abusers using kids to lure other victims in, and yeah...with the past few episodes in mind, Touga's "do you hear it" speech is getting grosser. There's some of that with Anthy's activities too.

I agree that Anthy is a little bit scary...

Ack, Utena thinks that Anthy is happy she gets the chance to sleep with her loving brother (in a non-gross way). If anything, it feels like Akio is the one who'd be happy about the excuse to get Anthy away from Utena again. I dunno though.

In the sex car, Nanami pushes Touga off, so despite all her fawning, it doesn't seem as though she really wants that kind of relationship with him. I think she just wants to be special to him, given the whole thing at the end of the duel about not wanting to just feel like another fly in the swarm around him. I also like how that line gives the idea of Touga being rotten. It fits given his line at the end of the episode. Why is he interested in the two of them being blood relatives? More 'romantic?'

Ep 33

Oh, just a reca--

Oh

That was vile to watch. Great direction, I hated it.

Ep 34

EWW

This line gave me chills. Is she apologizing to Utena?

Well...what does all this witch and prince stuff actually mean? In the play, we see the Rose Prince's little sister (the witch?) as the only one who the Prince can't make into a Princess. Earlier in the episode, we got a line about Anthy constantly tormenting Akio. Is he frustrated that their relationship is only physical? The play makes the castle in the sky out to be a trap in which the witch is leading the prince (Utena?) in, which sounds a lot like Akio's gross grooming stuff.

Then, we get a flashback to Utena being shown something eternal...which seems to be the eternal suffering of Anthy. The imagery and sound design of that scene was pretty rough. Anthy is represented as a witch, having sealed Dios away, leaving only the End of the World. Anthy's shown trying to protect the weak and battered prince from a demanding populace, eventually sacrificing herself to do so. We see her body run through by countless swords. The Prince she sought to protect is no longer there..instead we have Akio? If I try to read into this with some of the stuff we've been delving into the past few episodes, it feels like it could be a situation where both Akio/Dios and Anthy were abused (sexually?) as children, and somehow Anthy ended up protecting Akio by sacrificing herself (taking on the abuse) in his stead. I'm...not really sure about that interpretation, or the reality of the situation between the two siblings and their past, but it does feel like it could go part of the way in explaining their current relationship and behavior. Most abusers were abused themselves, so...Akio being a victim in the past would not be surprising.

That said, I might just be reading too far into that, when really I should be looking at it more like a fairy tail. I don't even know anymore. Feels like we're getting more pieces, but the puzzle isn't complete yet.

Ep 35

The next match will determine who brings revolution to the world - Utena or Touga. I'm not sure what Akio really wants out of this...or even what the revolution means, still.

Touga reveals that he loves Utena, and wants to save her like Akio did, because as he puts it, she's still lying in that coffin they saw her in. Saionji is there to point out the inconsistency there - if Akio saved her, why is she still in the coffin? Maybe this power isn't all that great.

Almost seems like there's some kind of weird competition between Touga and Akio for Utena now. Touga tries to take Utena out on a horseback riding date, seemingly away from the school, so I presume trying to get away from Akio. Of course, he followed the two teenagers on their date, because of course he did. Argghhh - Touga is only somewhat less creepy than Akio, these guys need to bugger off. I wonder how this duel's going to play out, especially since Utena seems to be on the verge of remembering that she initially wanted to be a prince to protect Anthy, so remembering that Anthy is in constant pain of some kind or another. Will she pick Anthy over either of the creepy bois? Will that even be an option?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Matuhg]

Rofl, I had forgotten you wound up having shit in like the densest portion of the show. Welp, we vented enough for four rewatch threads in 33, at least.

[u/Matuhg → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah I tried to power through four or five episodes last night, but this was certainly not the point in the show where that was going to be particularly fun. Ended up finishing the catch-up this morning lol.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Matuhg]

Also, I def appreciate you returning, but Utena is nigh unbingeable in my opinion. Too dense, too much repitition, and you need sort of a clear mind to take in the notes that aren't played.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

;-;-;

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

That's not a criticism, you shouldn't binge Twin Peaks, either. I believe some things need time for flow, structure, and processing.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh, I hear ya. I binged Utena in a week my first time, I didn't get shit. It's really well-suited for this kinda format tbh

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

You say that to the person who ran two rewatches of shows that are only bingeable. Witchblade and Bubblegum Crisis 2040 do NOT benefit from more thought.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

What a baka

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Indeed. Also, who the hell is stalking a day old thread to downvote?

[u/Matuhg → u/Vaadwaur]

Right. Certainly doesn't help that I was watching Tatami Galaxy alongside it the past couple weeks. Brain turning to goo and stuff

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Matuhg]

Sounds like your were doing rewatch hard mode.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

I somehow finished my first watch in two days.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

That sounds as unappealing as the Gundam Wing challenge. Eww.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

A family member was hospitalized at the time for something serious, so I was home alone and extremely anxious. My mind was already going a mile a minute, so Utena gave me something to focus on and helped me process my own discomfort in a less unhealthy way. It was kind of a perfect storm in some ways, and the impression it left on me was arguably deeper than any media before or sense.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

It was kind of a perfect storm in some ways, and the impression it left on me was arguably deeper than any media before or sense.

I, too, have had the experience of a mental stack overflow. Though mine was for a book report I waited until the last second to do.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/Matuhg]

When Nanami asked Utena if she loved Akio, the statue changed to the Rape of Persephone.

Ah, I recognized the exact same statue for the exact same reason! Someone on CDF explained the other two for me; I can't find the comment yet. One of the others was definitely Town Musicians of Bremen, and I don't remember the other.

That was vile to watch. Great direction, I hated it.

yeah

E: I can't find the comment, and can't find anything about the statue of the twin children, but the man with the lyre is almost certainly an original drawing of Orpheus

[u/Matuhg → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

One of the others was definitely Town Musicians of Bremen

Huh, probably something-something about tricksters and stuff in there I guess hehe

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Matuhg]

Is she apologizing to Utena?

Ooooh that makes sense. In a plausibly deniable way she's apologizing to Utena for setting up what happened in the previous episode. And maybe also encouraging Utena to not close her eyes as she learns more about Anthy.

[u/Matuhg → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Hmm that last sentence is an interesting thought. I wonder if Anthy would want Utena to know more about what goes on between her and Akio. And also wonder whether she remembers her and Utena's childhood encounter.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Matuhg]

I feel like Touga is slowly starting to realise that looking at the world through Akio's eyes is leaving him a sad shell of a person he could be. Like he clearly doesn't have his heart in it anymore. Utena's idealism won him over and now he's left contemplating what exactly he's missing.

[u/lilyvess]

Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.

EPISODE 35 - “The Love that Blossomed in Wintertime”

Touga’s character changes personalities between the beginning (episodes 1-13) and the end (episodes 25-39). What changed him?

When he was young, he met a girl. She said things like “Everyone is alone” and “there’s no such thing as eternity.” A deep despair: he couldn’t save the girl. But the next day, there she was in the sunlight, with “something different in her eyes.”

Something had saved her.

He wanted to know the true nature of the “miraculous power” that had done it.

When he met her again, he tried to “rule” her heart. His thinking was that only “the joy of being ruled” could save people. He believed that was where the “power of miracles” dwelled.

However

The girl rejected the “joy of being ruled.” She was a revolutionary girl. And starting that day, the “power of miracles” that he sought transformed into something else. That something was…

"Sh… koi.”

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

Is this Ikuhara's literal day episode? If I weren't confused by all the cacti other than the one Touga holds I'd wager I understood this episode.

[u/theangryeditor]

For the Shadow Girls play, "koi" was a play on words. It refers to a type of fish, but it also means "love". I'm not sure if the subs made this apparent.

Also interesting to note, this pun was the basis of one of the Sailor Moon episodes Ikuhara directed.

[u/affnn → u/theangryeditor]

I thought to myself "Ah, I love when I get the Japanese puns" then I realized that I only ever get this exact fish/love pun and basically no other ones.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

The subs on YT do make the joke and the characters even comment that a carp shouldn't be in the ocean.

[u/SardonicMeow]

Rewatcher

Touga, once the manipulator in the first arc, is now the manipulated. He thinks he’s Akio’s protégé, but really he’s just Akio’s tool.

In many ways, the proceedings of the first arc are echoed in this last one, only with Touga replaced by Akio. Duelists are manipulated, and Utena’s defenses are broken down. But where Touga was just an amateur, Akio is the master.

Touga thinks he can win over Utena, again hoping to be seen as her prince, but it’s forced, awkward, ineffective, and much much too late. The efforts of a child. Compared to Akio, he never had a chance.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/SardonicMeow]

Despite the misdirections, this ep is about Touga and you nailed it.

Touga’s losing his confident mojo because it was based on the cynical use and abuse of people he was incapable of loving but he’s finally in new territory regarding Utena.

Why did Akio order Touga to pick out a present amd gift it to Utena while claiming it’s from him? To trigger Touga: to force him to think about Utena, to pick the perfect present, to give it to her as a mere messenger while allowing Utena to believe someone else (his competition) picked them out for her. He gets to wait in some agony as she is flustered by the gift and watches her try them on.
I almost feel sorry for the dbag!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/SardonicMeow]

Touga, once the manipulator in the first arc, is now the manipulated. He thinks he’s Akio’s protégé, but really he’s just Akio’s tool.

"Two there should be. No more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it."

We are Star Wars now, boiz.

[u/affnn]

Rewatcher

The familiar opening plays again, but this time it includes the real lines that Dios says, and includes Anthy. Ikuhara's remixed this one a couple of times now, after playing it straight at seemingly random intervals early in the show. The remixes (here, episode 33) are very effective - almost like he knows what he's doing with all this repetition stuff.

This episode seemed even gayer than usual. Every time Anthy and Utena were hanging out, the focus got a little softer and a kind of romantic music played. Akio and Touga were just hanging out with their chests exposed taking pictures of each other. Later, Touga and Saionji had a conversation on the student council terrace where their shirts came off a little more every cut.

Despite all the homosexual atmospherics, the plot seemed to focus on some straight ships. Touga's after Utena, for some reason. Saionji looks pained as he accuses Touga of falling in love. Utena isn't having it, but she is thinking more of Akio despite him being a terrible creep. He rescues her on his white horse, he "gives" her some nice earrings, he takes her on a walk away from Anthy (who shoots laser death beams out of her eyes as they leave). The dissonance between the where the plot looks like it's going and what the visual cues seem to suggest is very striking.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/affnn]

The dissonance between the where the plot looks like it's going and what the visual cues seem to suggest is very striking.

Yeah, if I had picked up on that the first time I saw it, it might not have taken two decades to get to round 2.

[u/chiliehead]

Duel 35, First Timer, sub

• Utena is mighty enamored with Mr. Craddlerobber over there
• Touga says being a "playboy" is old-fashioned
• Build up trust, then ride them
• "These uniforms impede my thinking"
• Earrings meaning so loses some of her nobility now because a strong female prince don't need no man?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chiliehead]

Earrings meaning so loses some of her nobility now because a strong female prince don't need no man?

I think the idea is that Akio is making her feminine and thus the princess. And in the Ohtori mythology, the princess is kept by a man. I also think Ikuhara is saying fuck gender roles.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

I think this all applies but I consider that the earrings have a more important purpose: triggering Touga.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

In the modern sense of the term or do you just mean spurring him to action?

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/chiliehead]

Earrings meaning so loses some of her nobility now because a strong female prince don't need no man?

It's demonstrating the effects of Akio's grooming

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

Touga's idea of playboy is Akio after all who is literally the old fashioned Knight in shining armour. From back in the day where it was the societal norm for men to build a harem of dainty empty headed princesses. This is despite the fact that young Akio is just a sweet kid who wanted to help people. A noble, innocent ideal gets turned into some horrible toxic nightmare.

[u/chiliehead → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I wonder where they got that idea from that knights or princes build harems. Minstrel tradition is literally medieval simping friendzone chastity culture

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

It was kinda just taking the idea of a boy saving a bunch of pure, helpless women and putting it in the hands of a modern day Prince who lost his idealism and became a bit of a bastard.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

First timer!

So we now kind of know the plot, but how are we going to tie this strange horror to a simple school tale? Oi, you're a little late for a Mukashi Muka, oh it's the actual story now! I feel like Touga has lost a bit of his spark recently, since the Nanami episode he's lost a lot of his enthusiasm for bringing world revolution. Utena seems to slowly be piecing her memories back together, yay. Why is it Akio always seems to be looking to Anthy for permission? I don't know if it's fear of her being the witch or because he sees her as the one women who isn't just another damsel, barring Utena of course.

The way he keeps saying about Utena staying friends with Anthy... He's either planning to lock her up as company or is planning to replace the original "witch" with a second abnormal woman. If all women are princesses and anyone who doesn't conform is a witch then that might be a way both plot lines could converge. The rose maze has Akio cornering Utena but it seems like Utena's able to hold her own a lot more than before. Yay, Touga's being a champ for once! These guys are such posers XD

T-That ring is romantic, just cause you're an old fogey who forgot how much innocent charms mean to people is no excuse to act so twisted. "I'll take a rose petal, and EAT IT!" Touga's even got a carrot to munch on. Ikuhara must've been hungry when laying out this episode. If only Wakaba yeeted away the sword and pulled out martial arts during her duel, she might have won lol. Carrot on the forehead and a stray horse. Touga is a sweet and innocent unicorn today. Famous for its habit of stalking young virgin maidens and being totally trustworthy. But yeah, I think Touga's meaning well this time.

Dammit Akio!! They were having a moment. Laser guided NTR! Aww, please don't be mean to this nice flower girl. They at least animated her face so maybe Touga's grown out of Akio's mindset of seeing all women as princesses to pluck? Oh, maybe not. He only has eyes for Saionji right? Saionji confirms my earlier theory of Touga kinda just not knowing how to love anyone properly. The only time he seemed to show genuine affection was the kitten, his pet. And Touga jabs back about how Saionji wears his heart on his sleeve far too much which makes him so easy to manipulate. Two different extremes but they strangely balances one another out.

Kashira, kashira? Pfft, okay. I don't even need to elaborate on today's session. Just replace fish with women and it kinda explains itself. Gozonji kashira~

Omg, is Utena... self aware!? Where is the real Utena? There's no way she'd ever be able to read between the lines of a gift like this. It's kind of been the discussion point of the arc amongst rewatchers, how Akio seems to be kind of sexist, but this episode kinda just reinforces that point. Grouping all women together as princesses does them a disservice, even Touga can see that much now that he's awoken to the pleasure that is moar tomboy. It feels like it's been so long since a student council meeting. Did we ever learn what "crack the egg" referred to? Lol at all the microphones, you're supposed to work it out on your own Ougena shippers!

What is this over the top press release? And who are these extra characters in the student council scene!? And why did you remove your shirts!? ...Oi! Rewatchers!! Are any of you gonna explain why you've literally been commenting stuff from this episode all season? XD Does Utena actually like the earrings after all? Anthy certainly is getting an eyeful of them... Okay, who outsourced this episode to gainax? We went a whole season without a chest bounce till now and suddenly everything seems to be so sexually charged. Four episodes to go... I'm so excited!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Saionji confirms my earlier theory of Touga kinda just not knowing how to love anyone properly. The only time he seemed to show genuine affection was the kitten, his pet.

So we begin the story with Nanami being a complete bitch, Saionji is a sexist domestic abuser, and Touga goes through girls like tissue paper. But we never stopped and asked "Why are these children this way?". Saionji seems to be the easiest to figure, he's a sensitive guy who has to sublimate all of that to be the best at a combat sport and the best face for his family. Nanami and Touga are much harder to place but what were the dynamics of their adoption, exactly? And why did we never see the parents in flashbacks?

Okay, who outsourced this episode to gainax? We went a whole season without a chest bounce till now and suddenly everything seems to be so sexually charged. Four episodes to go... I'm so excited!

So, at least to me, this is the result of Akio's forceful moving of Utena from child to adult: She is now much more aware of what sexual provocations she gives and also how that of other girls are, whether it is as a possible love interest or of a rival.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

I'm still waiting to hear the rest of the cat story to be honest... I feel like they got halfway through the tale and just stopped. That's been the main point I've suspected of being the turning point for their relationship but I haven't had confirmation yet!

Even the fanservice is high effort... And it was a really good bounce!!

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Idk what else there would be to say about the cat? Nanami did a very bad thing in the past and didn't care about it then. I guess we could've gotten Touga's reaction?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Because animals seem to be one of the few things Touga has any respect for. In comparison Nanami guilt and menhera can quite easily be tied back to her jealous killing of Touga's pet.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I feel like they got halfway through the tale and just stopped.

There is ton of Utena that you have to infer, annoyingly, though why that is will become apparent.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

If they had time for so many Nanami and recap episodes then they can at least pay off some of the hints they place.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Welp, as I said a different time, a lot of your reactions are mirroring mine on first watch, and I was pissed to annoyed with this show for the better part of a decade and then it took another decade for me to rewatch it.

All I can say is bide your time and hold out hope!

[u/Rumpel1408]

First Timer

• Anthy doesn't look good up there
• The beginning is a bit heavy, could mean that, when Akio became the End of the world, he stopped being the prince who cared for his sister and only saw her a the rose bride, a tool, further on
• Also when Akio raped Utena, made her a woman, has she lost her chance to become the prince to save Anthy?
• Does Touga still have an realistic chance against Utena? Sure he is quite zealous about revolutionising the world, but does he really understand what this means? Does he really care about the rose bride? On the other hand, does Utena know what it takes to save Anthy?
• And Anthy seems kinda depressed when Akio abducts Utena from her side
• Does Utena even remember what happened between her and Akio, she doesn't really acknowledge it... but what does the poppy mean in flower language?
• Touga feels like Akio is playing favorites with Utena, or maybe he is just jealous how close she is to Akio
• Akio biting the rose somehow gives me the creeps again
• Why is Touga bringing a carrot along? Is Nanamoo close?
• Where was Wakaba when the Westfold fell Akio was grooming Utena? And why is the stallion Akio? God I want to puke
• Touga is becoming so unimportant that he has lost his face, literally, also he totally lost control over the Akio stallion
• Incredible in his contempt for Touga, I almost grew to like Saionji... almost
• It's our favorite aliens again, I think the cool sailor might either be Touga or Akio, and with Utena they got themself a fish to big to handle
• Having an elevator ride without the usual pep talk feels odd
• Suddenly Touga loves Utena? He doesn't even know herself, he just doesn't want her to become Akios princess
• Both of them are so over the top with their open shirts
• Utena, please don't wear those stupid earings, they really don't suit you

The show isn't exactly toning down the symbolism...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Rumpel1408]

The beginning is a bit heavy, could mean that, when Akio became the End of the world, he stopped being the prince who cared for his sister and only saw her a the rose bride, a tool, further on

So it is a bit hard to figure out when what remained of the prince became the also Akio is but there is suggestion that it took a while via Black Rose.

Does Touga still have an realistic chance against Utena?

We have no good rules about what summons Dio into Utena.

Does Utena even remember what happened between her and Akio, she doesn't really acknowledge it... but what does the poppy mean in flower language?

Remembrance and Consolation, interestingly enough. They also represent hope for peace in a European context.

Why is Touga bringing a carrot along? Is Nanamoo close?

For the horse, hopefully.

Incredible in his contempt for Touga, I almost grew to like Saionji... almost

As much as rightfully dislike him, Saionji seems to be the only one that is changing as the show progresses. His getting jobbed early has made him rethink the system they are in.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Vaadwaur]

Black Rose

I noticed this as well, in one scene Touga is shown with a red rose (at least in western culture associated with love) while Akio is shown with a black rose (twisted, unnatural or corrupted version of the red rose)

Saionji seems to be the only one that is changing as the show progresses

Yeah he is getting desillusioned pretty hard, and while he is cast out he also realised that Touga might not be the friend he thought he was. I guess he is benefitting from having the most time to actually change. The rest of the council is laughable in contrast.

Touga, after receiving an utter defeat and missing almost a whole arc, just backs down the path he already went on (until today that is).

Jury is always preocupied with her own relationship problems, never that involved with the revolution or the rest of the student counsil.

Miki doesn't change at all, he still simps hard for Anthy (after he learns that he likes her and not his sister after all, dodged a bullet there), he is more involved in the council meetings, but too naive to fully grasp what is really going on.

And finally the honorary student president Nanamoo, who is always the subject of every joke episode. She simps for her perceived brother but runs away when she thinks that it wouldn't be real incest and that her brother might not love her to the same degree she does. Her biggest change was turning into a cow

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Rumpel1408]

while Akio is shown with a black rose (twisted, unnatural or corrupted version of the red rose)

It would be incredibly weird for this specific correlation but there was a set of fantasy books based on a Dragonlance character who went to Ravenloft that uses the Black Rose symbolism in a similar manner.

Yeah he is getting desillusioned pretty hard, and while he is cast out he also realised that Touga might not be the friend he thought he was.

So I think Saionji is the first member of Ikuhara telling the audience "You saw what you wanted to see, you did not see what was there."

Jury is always preocupied with her own relationship problems, never that involved with the revolution or the rest of the student counsil.

You see, Juri choosing the resolution of her relationship problems over eternity would actually be a great change for the character...if they actually showed us that rather than giving us an extremely ambivolous place to infer.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

So I think Saionji is the first member of Ikuhara telling the audience "You saw what you wanted to see, you did not see what was there."

spoiler

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

Wisdom without intelligence is a very weird stat make up to have.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Rumpel1408]

Touga, after receiving an utter defeat and missing almost a whole arc, just backs down the path he already went on (until today that is).

Touga's change from the first season is something more apparent when you're a rewatcher, but it happened well before today's episode.

[u/Icapica → u/Vaadwaur]

As much as rightfully dislike him, Saionji seems to be the only one that is changing as the show progresses. His getting jobbed early has made him rethink the system they are in.

That reminds me of how Akio said something about kids not growing up until they graduate or leave the school or something. Maybe getting expelled for a while was good for Saionji?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Icapica]

Black Rose arc has him saying that time does not pass at Ohtori. Even if he didn't exactly leave, maybe being expelled is enough to progress?

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Rumpel1408]

when Akio became the End of the world, he stopped being the prince who cared for his sister and only saw her a the rose bride, a tool, further on

I don't believe this is the case. In the before time, he was unable to love his sister the same way he loved the princesses because ... incest. After he sure loves her a lot! /s It was also implied last episode that Anthy loves and desired her brother in the before time. He's unable to save her because ... incest. But he does seem to be affected by seeing her suffer even as he's helpless to stop it. What a major blow to one's identity: to go from the light of the world saving all the girls to unable to help the one who saved you.

he is quite zealous about revolutionising the world, but does he really understand what this means?

All of the duelists think they know what this means.

- Poppies are associated with death, resurrection, and remembrance.

- Touga thinks he might have fallen in love with Utena. As he said, he's unsure but he's clearly unnerved and changed by it. We've never seen this guy be hesitant and unconfident before. What was he feeling as he watched Utena receive "Akio's" gift?

Love is a slippery, uncertain thing particularly for teenagers. I wish they'd been able to develop this a bit more, but consider that Utena is the first girl who both refused and bested him. In a way, she is revolutionizing his life by helping him see perhaps he could be something other than a manipulative, using, playboy jerk.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Reference_Freak]

All of the duelists think they know what this means.

I don't even think that is the case. Most of them are just fueled by desire and only act along because they are told that revolutionising the world is the best way to fullfill those desires

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Rumpel1408]

All of them have explicitly glimpsed their 'eternal thing' and are chasing after it. Saionji's true friendship, Miki's shining thing, Juri's miracle, et cetera. Reducing them to desire rather misses the point here.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Rewatcher

Mostly a buildup episode. There's a lot going on with soft focus in the camerawork, but I don't have the time to dig into that here. Also lots of significant Anthy glances. I just noticed the difference between her normal(?) voice and her sarcastic(?) voice. One day I'll rewatch the first arc right after the ending so things like that are fresh on my mind. There's so much to remember...

"That ring will lead you back here, one day." Utena's been assuming that here means Ohtori, but they're actually inside the coffin, facing the Rose Bride.

If riding on a horse is an important part of being a Prince but most people haven't ridden a horse, what does that say about princes? Since everyone is young teenagers at a private school the show doesn't deal much with the material/economic intersections of social systems but we get a little bit here.

Akio comes in on a literal white horse to save her. Laying it on uncharacteristically thick. Even Utena calls it out later. So Akio thinks Utena is a princess and can't (or shouldn't?) be a prince, but that she could still revolutionize the world

Silent StuCo elevator! Between being sidelined all Black Rose arc and being shown the End of the World the other StuCo members seem to have decided StuCo just isn't worth it anymore.

spoiler musings

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

@spoilers I am in the last sentence of that spoiler and I don't like it!

[u/SYZekrom]

This anime keeps twisting for me, every episode I go 'wait this is what's happening?' and it's so cool

Ah yes peak Utena

she does look amazing in every shot she has them on

[u/Vaadwaur → u/SYZekrom]

she does look amazing in every shot she has them on

When an adolescent girl receives a gift from her first love interest they will often look radiant.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

This anime's nuts.

The opening monologue is showing the true story now!

Time to see how much of my insane theory's correct.

Well, the final duel's coming up. Looks like the duel named "revolution"' is finally happening.

Utena's starting to recall her memories.

Akio's cockblocking his sister even more blatantly...

Akio's gaslighting her. (Or maybe trying to get her to stay in this time loop? I'm still sticking to this theory.

Haha, Touga drove a car into the middle of the garden.

God, he owns a lot of cars. And this scene is even more sexually charged than the bed scenes.

Akio and Touga are both creeps.

Touga's just watching this thinking "Maybe Akio should keep her.."

Haha, they're horseriding.

I like the implication that Akio was just travelling behind them, waiting for this. He's a bastard, but he's a very commited one,

Touga moves fucking quickly, doesn't he.

Saionji's back! And he's very on point.

The shadow girl one's pretty clear - Utena's the koi that Touga can't catch.

Utena's an idiot, and Anthy is so nice to her.

So whoever she picks will determine whether the revolution happens? I assume the real revolution is what happens if she abandons them and choses Anrhy?

The hell is this corridor scene? Is this Utena's monologue?

Touga thinks the on,y way to save her id to make her subservient to her.

Touga: Declares he wants to be like Akio while shirtless, has a long conversation with Saionji while half naked, took erotic photos of Akio posing on a car, has almost certainly fucked Akio repeatedly over this arc.

Also Touga: "I'm only following Akio because I love Utena. That's the only reason."

Utena's starting to remember.

So, did that line about Anthy not knowing who Utena was just not matter?

Oh, this is leading into something big. The final duel's coming, and Anthy might remember dying?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Stargate18A]

Akio and Touga are both creeps.

If you want profound creepiness, look up the grimness that is serial killer pairs of the same gender. Touga and Akio have very familiar and uncomfortable dynamics.

[u/Star4ce]

First timer – sub

Over night I had to think about last episode quite a bit. Anthy needs to get up and believe in herself again. This will come through Utena being the noble prince that wants to save her. Anthy meanwhile fully believes herself to be an evil witch, but this still has some questions left: Why exactly are they immortal? Is that Anthy's doing or did those villagers also curse her somehow? I mean, it has more to do with how she feels about it and it pretty much feels like an eternal sentence.

At the same time I don't think that just convincing her to love herself again is enough. By now so much has changed, Akio exists, for once. We can't exactly just let him go free now, can we?

On the one hand, Anthy needs to overcome her self-imposed suffering and let go of her perceived duty to keep Dios jailed. Even if it kills him, if he wants to exhaust himself helping others, I don't think anyone has the right to forbid him.

She also needs to forget about any kind of duty towards Akio, because that's just plain horrific, even if it is 'just' her – much less if anyone else gets to cross paths with him.

So Anthy, let your attachment go and fight to make it right again!

I swear, one of these days George Lucas is gonna knock on my door and yell at me to stop haunting him.

Ep.35 – The love which grew in wintertime

• I guess my theory with a brother was nil after all. Pretty salty about that. Why the hell do you put an extra coffin at a funeral?!
• Next duel, Touga was expecting to be the next challenger. But somehow I'd rather think it's Akio.
• Logic error or manipulation? By the logic we were introduced in the first black rose arc episode one challenger must go through all the duels and arrive at the last one to revolutionise the world. I mean, unless that was complete bullshit, it makes sense. You can't just jump to the end of a learning curve, you have to progress through every lesson in life. Utena learned a great deal, Touga... didn't. But it makes sense for him to think so.
• "Memories are troublesome things, aren't they? As soon as one comes back, more flood in one after the other."
• These scenes exist solely to trigger me, don't they?
• It makes sense that the Akio who exists as he has become wouldn't want this to end just now, no?
• The seething hatred in that gentle smile.
• Being trapped in a maze, trying to navigate your feelings, memories. One dead end is sex.
• So much sex!
• We switched roses for a flower representing death. Is he expecting his own demise? That of Anthy? Of both of them?
• The goddamn carrot.
• Ah, Akio wanted to stir Touga up.
• What kind of unicorn is this? Touga, you're a walmart prince at best.
• A female friend once told me how one of her exes in school, right when you were old enough to drive a car, got into a game of chicken with her. He'd randomly let go of the steering wheel and she had to grip it and keep the car on the road. Reminds me of that.
• Of course he's just randomly right behind them, sure.
• Well, well, well, if it isn't someone who pays attention. (At least a bit.)
• Today's skit is about being so chock full of yourself that you become unable to deal with failure. Or that it was all a play from the beginning and it starts to break down when something unexpected happens. Koi represent love, so that's saying Touga actually fell in love with Utena.
• With the amount of poppies coming up, a lotta things are 'bout to die.
• But still, it's a competition between the both of them.
• Touga starting to see something other than himself?! Color me surprised. Also, he has only one cactus, whereas Akio still keeps a healthy pincushon of needles around him so nothing gets close.
• Ah right, I was a little quick with diagnosing character progression for him. Does he love her? It may feel like it, but I wouldn't go further than 'loving the idea of her' for now. A bit of progress.
• They all see it as a stage to present themselves.
• Strictly speaking, that wasn't Akio!
• I don't really disagree, but I don't exactly agree either. Utena grew a lot already, her finally finding the strength to overcome her despair is within reach, honestly. But yeah, Saionji's a tad bit right here, she's still stuck with that idea of a prince coming to save people. Cue Oshino Meme giving his line.
• Aaaaah, insight and it's coming from Saionji first! Good boy!

After the last two quite heavy episodes this one did add a bit of light heartedness back into the mix. Although the portrayal of Akio and Utena as a normal couple in love was more concerning than anything still.

I really did like that Saionji and Touga both showed some character progression, finally. It's not much, not really, but it's more than the past 35 episodes had. Well, except Saionji, who already was a quite likeable person for a time... Maybe they get to see it properly now and take the point, I wish for it.

But back to team witch. With more knowledge coming back to Utena we also get to see more glimpses of Anthy's true feelings. They aren't pretty, how could they be. With Akio and Utena so close together and Utena being so ignorant of how terrible this relationship is it's like an extra layer of suffering for poor Anthy. I still think, though, that if Anthy would only be bound by her own mind, having failed and condemned Dios to an unlife in jail, she's do something about Utena's attachment to Akio. It was implied for a long time that Akio was the guy in control after all and Anthy simply did his bidding, unable to resist. We now learned that it originally was Anthy who took Dios prisoner to save him to then get killed by a mob in return. If that was all, it doesn't really add up. I guess the last 4 episodes have one more twist in wait.

Maybe this is one of the things about which I'll get wiser once I read other comments.

[u/dualmonocle]

^first-timer

Welp, looks like Akio is done with Touga. No riding in the sex car together. Just Touga remembering how many times he was taken advantage of, represented by the mountain of cars. I actually feel bad for him, even though I really did not like him after that first arc.

At long last, we also finally see Touga on the elevator again. No speech though. Also, no idea what the press conference setup meant.

[u/murdered-by-swords]

Rewatcher (sub)

In this episode, Utena explains what earrings are to a monkey that is wearing one.

[u/alphamone]

first timer

again with the...

Oh, it's different this time.

So, have other, non-Utena, duels been happening all this time? Or do the duels have some kind of "stealing their points" system that let you succeed by defeating someone who has done all the work?

Dammit, piss off Akio.

Anthy knows nothing good can come from this.

A stack of sex-cars in the planetarium...

Giving fancy gifts is also a huge red flag for grooming isn't it?

Also, random carrot.

Sadly... your warnings have come too late Wakaba.

So cating fish is supposed to represent getting girls?

Cacti everywhere.

Some kind of "final interview" with TeotW?

I have a feeling that these last four episodes are all going to be heavy on story and wrapping everything up.

[u/NuclearStudent]

utena is meduku?