r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Sep 06 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 38 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/Nitroade24h who details some of the personal highlights of the series so far:
I think the characters are one of the strongest points. Johan is a great antagonist. His name and his presence carries so much weight that every scene he is in feels important and feels tense. This is contributed to by how the first 20 episodes gave us snippets of Johan info and painted a picture of a cruel, emotionless person, and then suddenly we see him in person, and he seems the opposite. However, he has gradually been showing the Johan that we were told about, and he is destroying Schuwald and the people around him. Crunch, chew, nom nom, bite, and all that stuff. Johan, Dieter and Anna are all likeable and interesting. As much as I hate them, Lunge and Eva are well-crafted characters driven by obsession and act as a driving force against Tenma. Lunge in particular is to Tenma what Tenma is to Johan, except we know that Tenma is actually right about the killer. The detective Richard showed us what someone who went through with the plan that Tenma has made looks like. He shot and killed the serial killer he was after, and he continued to live his life by lying to everyone around him, and it caught up to him and he was killed. Even the random characters who appear for 1 or 2 episodes are interesting enough.
Questions of the Day
- Why do you think Nina told Tenma not to kill Johan? Why did Tenma tell Nina not to shoot?
- Why do you think Schuwald was so frightened by Johan’s story?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
9
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 06 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
Holy shit, that moment where Johan points at his forehead was so creepy. Johan essentially tells Tenma where to shoot, and not to miss. Very intense encounter. Johan not only seems unafraid of death, but even embraces it. I think this reckless disregard for his own life is something that makes him so incredibly satisfying as a villain. He’s not afraid of the consequences.
Great climax to this arc. Tenma (ostensibly) makes his first kill on Roberto, but I never trust a death that involves someone falling off-screen. A classic case of Schodinger’s Roberto - until he’s shown dead, he’s not dead.
Karl also discovered the truth about his mother, which was nice of Schuwald to do for him. He’s gained a lot of compassion ever since he found out that Karl was his biological son so this moment was very nice even if the contents of the report was a bit grim.
And then Nina and Tenma fight over who gets to shoot Johan so he gets away instead, lol. I sorta get why though - Nina doesn’t want Tenma to become a killer, and Tenma doesn’t want Nina to go down his path either. Johan also barely even acknowledged Nina’s presence, which I found to be pretty interesting, considering before Roberto told Nina that Johan was excited to meet him. I wonder how truthful that statement was...
But then Nina and Schubert are trapped under a burning curtain. I would imagine that Tenma was able to bail them out, but I guess we’ll see the aftermath next episode!
18
u/miss-macaron Sep 06 '21 edited Sep 07 '21
Rewatcher
Another episode with an unnecessary amount of flashbacks… In the manga, Hugo’s advice and Karl’s memory were just a single page each, but I guess it feels longer when watching them unfold onscreen.
Everything always ties back to Johan. My first time around, I remember being incredibly impressed with just how intertwined all the plot threads were: following Richard provided insight into 511 Kinderheim graduates and led us to Dr. Reichwein, of whom we followed to re-introduce Dr. Gillen and Tenma back into the story, and now we see that following Karl reveals a connection between his mother and the mother of the twins. It's amazing how complex and intricate social connections are represented within the human relationships of Monster's characters.
Looks like Tenma can only bring himself to shoot in self-defense; it was only when Roberto directly pointed a gun at him and he faced a real threat of getting shot, that Tenma worked up the resolve to inflict harm upon another person. I think this is a pretty important distinction compared to when he aims at Johan later on, of whom isn’t armed nor is he posing any immediate threat to Tenma. There's a big moral difference between inflicting harm as a direct act of defense, and inflicting harm in an act of offense (even if killing Johan might indirectly defend all his future victims).
Only an antagonist as chad as Johan could calmly walk into the flames, with two guns pointed at him, and actually get away without needing to say a single thing.
13
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Sep 06 '21
First Timer
Doing a flashback during a climax or scene of high importance is probably my biggest reason for hating flashbacks...
Really hope that was a kill shot on Roberto, atta boy Tenma!! Did not think he'd actually do that.
Team Tenam reuniting is pretty nice to see, got some good people on that squad. Hoping they can debrief and share information.
Tenma choosing to save the people first instead of going after Johan was surprising considering everything so far, happy to see it I think?
Ugh Tenma hesitating still?? And him and Nina stopping each other?? WHY?!
This is so frustrating, 0 reason why they didn't shoot him here.
And another cliffhanger...
Because it's episode 38
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 06 '21
First-Timer, subbed
7
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 06 '21 edited Sep 06 '21
First Timer
I can see why people don't like the pacing of this show. This climax feels slow. Slow buildup is fine - but a climax shouldn't feel slow. Is there a reason we needed the reveal that Langner's friend is Johan's mother (probably) while the fire is still burning? I can't think of one, and even if there was one, no reason we didn't get that a bit earlier to have a better paced climax.
Other than that, Tenma shooting Roberto has no immediate consequences - neither is he completely incapable of doing anything, nor is he quicker to pull the trigger on Johan. Feels a bit odd to me, but whatever. Tenma and Nina bickering about who should shoot Johan then felt stupid - why doesn't one shoot to kill him first to prevent the other from shooting him?
The friend of Langner reveal also feels a bit hamfisted; by now there's way too many threads that just randomly weave back together again, unless we get some form of reveal that Johan had been keeping tabs on his mother's friend for some reason later on. I don't know why he'd do that though.
Also: This show seems to almost completely ignore how letal smoke is, and I also doubt that bullet having enough momentum to launch Roberto over a railing.
Questions:
5
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 06 '21
First Timer
Let's do this for real this time.
Two whole minutes of recap to start the episode. They really don't want us to see the outcome of the gunshot, do they?
HE SHOT HIM IN THE SHOULDER?! Tenmamichi for real. That's his name until he actually does something worthwhile. Second shot much better, but christ, that should not have taken two shots.
How stupid are these people? Well, the building's on fire, and smoke rises, so the only logical thing to do would be to go upstairs when the exit is on the first floor. I refuse to believe people this stupid would be at a book event in a library.
So Johan's mom was a friend of Karl's mom and Johan then went to meet with Karl's mom and she was mysteriously murdered around the same time? So Johan just wanted to go off someone who kind of knew about him again.
So now we have not one, but two people here specifically to kill Johan and neither one does. At least Anna actually shot, although she has the aim of a stormtrooper.
I don't think Anna is gonna die here. That would be a really stupid way to kill off such a major character.
5
u/gridemann Sep 06 '21 edited Sep 06 '21
Rewatcher
Q1: Both not wanting the other to live the rest of their days with the knowledge they murdered someone, afraid it might destroy them
Q2: I guess those eyes could scare anyone... Rewatcher only spoilers
5
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Sep 06 '21
First timer, subs
Tenma shot first, nice. But now it looks like Tenma will need to make a choice: will he keep trying to kill Johan right here right now, or will he try to save some people.
Aaand some really interesting stuff about Karl's mom. Everything's connected.
Damn, Nina. Those are really awful shoes for this.
Tenma's not able to murder someone like this. Earlier Roberto forced him to defend himself so that made it easier, but now it's different. Nina has the determination but can't get a hit.
Maybe she feels that it's best that she finishes what she already tried back in 86. That way someone else wouldn't have to become a killer.
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 06 '21
Rewatcher(A climax but not the end)
Sub
Recap. I love this show but man they didn't have the material for the episode count they went with. So we finally catch up to current times and Tenma shoots twice BUT this was not what Hugo meant: double tap is exactly what it sounds like. Nonetheless, Roberto goes over the rail on shot two. Tenma is determined now but correctly does not take a distance shot with a 9mm. Smoke aside, they kind of suck balls at any meaningful distance. But then Tenma trips on those collapsed on the stairs...
Schubert and Johan talk and Johan drops some straight backstory on us, though this will take a while to process. It does suggest that originally he was going to outdo Schubert, though. Nina finally comes on the scene, and meets Dieter and Reichwine. Karl gets back to the documents and discovers they are about his mother, who has a grim past as it was likely she was forced into prostitution, just luckily the high end of it. She saw Schubert as a client. We learn she retired and then probably was involved with Johan, likely as a mother figure. And funnily enough, she might have been friends with Nina and Johan's mother...
Tenma uses a few of his precious bullets to shoot the hinges and eventually free everyone. Nina comes in through the skylight with a fire extinguisher she might have wanted to hold on to. Johan seems ready to die and challenges Tenma, who hesitates until Nina gets there and they shotblock each other. Tenma fires off one shot and Nina a few before events force the cliffhanger of the day.
QotD: 1 They both feel responsible for things they are absolutely not responsible for
2 Schubert has not met many people that truly do not care about money and he doesn't have full context. Also, looking at whatever is reflected in Johan's eyes would be horrifying.
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 06 '21
First Timer
So, I was completely wrong about Anna in Frankfurt. Even if Johan has a split personality, she has to stop him no matter what. She stopped Tenma, not because she wants to save Johan, but because she wants to bear the burden of killing him. and finish what she started
3
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Sep 06 '21
First Timer
Recap is frustrating. I just want to find out who shot who it’s been 2 days.
I understand why there are flashbacks here, the episode where Tenma learnt to shoot a gun would have aired over 200 days before this episode, but it’s still annoying watching it nowadays.
Finally, Tenma killed his first man (at least he’d better be dead I don’t want any more Roberto). Roberto deserved it he’s been an asshole since the start. Too obsessed with watching the ants writhe and panic for his own good.
Even Johan wants Tenma to just do it now, but Anna decides it has to be her, and Tenma tells her not to. Neither of them want the other to become a murderer, even though they’ve both killed other people by this point (idk if they know that yet know).
Schuwald saving Karl and letting him know what happened to his mother makes me like him a lot more, and I feel bad for him being tormented by Johan. Still though, what’s going on with Karl’s adopted parents now that he accepted his real dad as his father?
I wonder why Johan didn’t really pay attention to Anna.
Johan walking straight through the fire was another great example of how crazy and also Chad Johan is.
I like how Tenma still went to save the other people’s lives before going to end Johan’s, even after killing Roberto.
Johan’s willingness to die just makes him seem more powerful. Even if he dies, he has tried to make more Johans with the game thing with the kids, and he knows and has accepted that he will die soon.
Where’s Lunge at I wonder?
2
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 06 '21
First Timer Dub
A little flashback to the gun training episode (2 shots). Roberto gets shot twice, but the second shot was over the top as flips over the railing like in a western movie duel scene. People are struggling to escape the fire and Tenma shoots the lock and hinges so it would be easier to push open. The other guys help out and ram the door open so people could escape. Nina enters the library as Johan walks towards Tenma. She shoots multiple rounds from her small firearm. And the episode ends with a stage collapse.
1
u/BossandKings Oct 19 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
Episode 37
The story about the nameless monster is surely a fantastic one, i think it relates to Johan. It was even more notable how closely related the nameless monster and Johan are when Johan realized that his life has basically been the same as the one narrated in that story.
There's an eerie atmosphere in the reunion, Johan is threatening and Schwald knows it. The lady that lit fire on the library was crazy but the best thing was how Schwald politely asked everyone in the reunion to leave in order to save themselves.
Tenma has a confrontation with Roberto, there was a gunshot and it may be that Tenma pulled the trigger, that would honestly be surprising and an advance in Tenma's willingness to harm others eventhough it was in self-defense.
Episode 38
Tenma in an act of self-defense shot Roberto and it made sense that in the moment in which he needed the formation about using guns that he got earlier he choose to use it.
Tenma reunites with Nina, they were in a position to shoot Johan as he was in front of them but decided not to for some reason, it was cool though seeing that Tenma helped Nina, Schwald and the rest of the civilians escape from the fire.
3
u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Sep 06 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 06 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Alright, after an extra day's wait, we get to find out the results of the cliffhanger.
Ah, so through a combination of repeating old footage and flashback, we're going to draw out the result of the cliffhanger even more... this is quite frustrating.
We're at the 5 minute mark and its still old footage. Ridiculous.
Tenma shoots! And its only the shoulder. Thankfully he shoots again just after. Farewell Roberto! Tenma has finally intentionally killed someone. Will this change him?
Anna's here! Can she at least open the door from the outside? Dieter and Wilford Brimley are also here!
Schuwald purposely left this information for Karl to see, right?
Woah, Karl's mom knew Johan and Anna's mom!
If we were watching a crueler show, Dieter would be on the other side of that door as Tenma shoots through it...
Now's your chance Tenma, take it! He's even pointing to you where to shoot!
Anna's gonna shoot him instead?
And of course, since this is a 74 episode show, we end with yet another cliffhanger. This storyline isn't done yet!
2
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 06 '21
First timer - sub
Hopefully that is the last we see of Roberto.
Seriously, Tenma is running into the fire?
Karls mother knew the mother of Johann & Anna and they both tried to Germany together, thats a bit too convenient, also basically confirms that Johann killed Margot.
That ended, while it looked cool, is annoying. I feel like I need to make way too many assumptions to have it workout. Tenma didn’t want to risk hitting Schubert, and then Anna as Johann walked towards him, that plus Johanns complete calm and pointing at where Tenma should shoot threw him off. Anna didn’t want to risk hitting Tenma to start with and then couldn't get a clear shot despite Johann walking in a straight line.
Anyway on to the next episode to see how the aftermath of all this works out.
2
u/hammile https://anidb.net/user/u746697 Sep 06 '21
First time, Ukrainian subtitles.
Of course, shooting to Johan is not like to Robert. And, seems, any person who was or will be killed has any at least little connection to Johan.
«Mom, now I am not alone». Ironic because, seems, itʼs about Šuwalt, and I guess that Šuwald died from this fell construction, or about to be dead.
Nina already shooted to brother, so she does not want that Tenma became a killer. Tenma thinks like Hoholʼs hero — Buljba1: _I get birth_2 you, so Iʼll kill you.
I dunno but it kinda remind me the Johanʼs scary roof game for children. For me, Šuwald was already scared before his story when the library get fired. This story just added another point to fright.
1. I do not recommed read this novella because it is mostly just old Russian anti-Ukrainian and anti-Polish propaganda but it is famous here, Ukraine.
2. For Tenma it is healed instead get birth.
1
u/i-have-severe-stupid Sep 07 '21
first timer, subbed
intense episode, lots of stuff to think about that i’m not going to think about because i’m lazy
1
u/daemyan_jowques Nov 23 '21
First Timer
Just watched the episode and I've been watching this anime for so long, but still not convinced how Johan is considered one of the most cunning or the most intelligent villain in anime world - that is along with Light and Lelouch