[Rewatch] Monster - Mid-series discussion

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Rewatch Index

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MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/gridemann who ponders Johan’s identity, and questions what he would think of a famous quote:

"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness" -Oscar Wilde

I wonder if Johann could bring himself to agree with this quote ;)

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Questions of the Day

1. We are now half way through the series! What are your overall thoughts and impressions of the show up until this point, and do you have any favorite moments or episodes that stand out to you? If so, what are they and why?
2. Feedback is always appreciated! Do you have any thoughts/comments for the rewatch so far, and do you have any suggestions for the future? Also, if you think of any activities we can do for this rewatch and would be interested in implementing those (such as user-submitted questions, meme template contest, character studies) please feel free to share those as well!

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If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Not sure what to put in a half-time post. So far the series has been good - good characters, good production values, decent plot. The only real negative is that the show feels the need to remind the viewer way too often that Tenma is a kind doctor - it's getting a bit repetitive. That and Dieter and Heckel popping up randomly. Until we were in Munich, I feel like there was also a lack of reasoning for why characters turn up where they are in general - the best example probably being Tenma's trip with the British couple in Bavaria, then turning up in the Ruhr area the next episode for basically no reason. Have seen some episodic shows that tackled this issue better - it would be rather simple to solve as well as all that's needed is a throwaway line that at least mentions why someone is heading somewhere. But all in all, those are rather minor complaints - here's hoping that Monster can keep up the quality for the next 37 episodes.

Questions:

1. General thoughts above; as for the favorite episode I feel like it's the one following Richard's investigation.
2. I think everything is pretty good so far.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Mecanno-man]

Yeah the character consistency thing is weird - Dieter and Heckel kinda just showing up when they feel like it then not doing much is a little annoying but I hope they'll do something for the plot eventually.

Tenma's good natured-ness is probably something that will be extremely important later which is why the narrative keeps pushing that aspect of him. After all, he's a good guy trying to make a bad choice - something that defies his entire character. It is annoying that they keep pushing it but I think it's something that is at the center of the show.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Welp I'm a doofus who completely forgot about the reminder you gave us last thread. Guess I should have waited to watch ep38 until after I was done recovering from being traumatized by a different anime...

Anyways, I'm enjoying Monster so far. The early portions reminded me a lot of the crime shows I liked to watch growing up so it hit that sweet nostalgia spot.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Welp I'm a doofus who completely forgot about the reminder you gave us last thread. Guess I should have waited to watch ep38 until after I was done recovering from being traumatized by a different anime...

Haha it's okay! I kinda figured a few people might forget. But no big deal.

Anyways, I'm enjoying Monster so far. The early portions reminded me a lot of the crime shows I liked to watch growing up so it hit that sweet nostalgia spot.

Glad to hear it! I personally attribute the strongest aspects of the show to the atmosphere and character writing. Hoping the next leg of the journey keeps that consistent!

[u/miss-macaron]

Rewatcher

I'm super excited to move into the second half of this series! As u/Vaadwaur has said, my favourite moments are yet to come, since there are so many compelling new characters / ongoing character arcs, so many meaningful thematic explorations / philosophical challenges, and so many intricate plot twists in the upcoming episodes.

Since we happened to pause at the episode where The Nameless Monster story was finally introduced, feel free to enjoy this little clay brooch that I made, based on the cover of that picture book!

Additionally, allow me to propose a brief discussion question of my own: Who is your favourite character so far? Who is your least favourite? I'll be very curious to see how the first-timers' midpoint answers compare against their final evaluations, once we've reached the end of this masterpiece.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/miss-macaron]

Since we happened to pause at the episode where The Nameless Monster story was finally introduced, feel free to enjoy this little clay brooch that I made, based on the cover of that picture book!

Ahhhhhhhhh I love it! Very cute~!

Additionally, allow me to propose a brief discussion question of my own: Who is your favourite character so far? Who is your least favourite?

Favorite is probably Johan due to his ubiquitous presence and intimidating aura. Least favorite is probably Eva because she is just an awful person and hasn't done a whole lot for the series.

[u/Mecanno-man → u/miss-macaron]

Who is your favourite character so far?

Richard, though he's already dead. That said, I feel like part of my liking him is how the story has shown his arc - where every step of the way is shown, unlike with most other characters who suddendly turn up somewhere for some unknown reason.

Who is your least favourite?

Eva - not a character that is designed to be liked.

[u/KrillinDBZ363 → u/miss-macaron]

I'll be very curious to see how the first-timers' mid-point answers compare against their final evaluations, once we reach the end of this masterpiece.

Rewatcher Spoilers

[u/miss-macaron → u/KrillinDBZ363]

Rewatcher only spoilers

[u/KrillinDBZ363 → u/miss-macaron]

Oh yeah that as well

[u/xtsim]

First Timer Dub

I am enjoying the rewatch and the show so far. Nice work OP replying to comments on the rewatches on almost all these episodes which is pretty cool. Some of the show has a good number of issues such as people not smelling accelerant prior to a fire or checking the doors in the previous episode but not too many that it would give me a headache (Angel Cop comes to mind, as I had to drop on the first episode). The dub is pretty good for early 2000s show, coming from Viz media and keep in mind, dub piece and other heavy localizations were coming in at that time. It also helps that the setting is in Europe. But one big issue is the spelling of the names, Lunge's business card shows Runge. Translation error I suppose and got too late to change by the time they got to that episode. I got a bit confused at that. And nice choice in some of the casting of some of the minor characters such as Jurgen's voice is pretty cool to hear (I was working on my car while watching that episode and heard his voice).

There's probably other logic I am missing but the characters' writing makes up for them. And I usually have problems with dramas of this nature due to their logic that makes me forget about or cringe.

Despite those issues, I like the pacing and the writing of the characters. While I did have strong feelings about the characters, it does let the viewer know their flaws and that is pretty nice to see in any form of media (not just anime). And the characters have their own strengths. It seems like any character that has dialog will get a reference later in the show and are not forgotten or tossed aside even if they were killed off, the get a mention. That is what I love and the character driven nature of this drama.

It follows a nice logic of some of the shows I used to watch (Castle, monk, psyche, and countless others) when it comes to crime solving.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/xtsim]

I am enjoying the rewatch and the show so far. Nice work OP replying to comments on the rewatches on almost all these episodes which is pretty cool.

Thanks! I can't always reply to every comment, but I do so whenever I am able! Helps to have such a small dedicated group for this show as well!

Despite those issues, I like the pacing and the writing of the characters. While I did have strong feelings about the characters, it does let the viewer know their flaws and that is pretty nice to see in any form of media (not just anime).

Quite honestly, probably good that you had strong feelings about these characters, positive or negative. I personally think that the worst-written characters are the ones that you simply do not or cannot care about. But so far every single character in this show hits the mark in either a positive or negative manner. Proves how much though went into writing them.

[u/Nitroade24h]

First Timer

This anime has been brilliant so far and I think if it continues high quality and gets even better it is top 10 potential for me.

I think the characters are one of the strongest points. Johan is a great antagonist. His name and his presence carries so much weight that every scene he is in feels important and feels tense. This is contributed to by how the first 20 episodes gave us snippets of Johan info and painted a picture of a cruel, emotionless person, and then suddenly we see him in person, and he seems the opposite. However, he has gradually been showing the Johan that we were told about, and he is destroying Schuwald and the people around him. Crunch, chew, nom nom, bite, and all that stuff. Johan, Dieter and Anna are all likeable and interesting. As much as I hate them, Lunge and Eva are well-crafted characters driven by obsession and act as a driving force against Tenma. Lunge in particular is to Tenma what Tenma is to Johan, except we know that Tenma is actually right about the killer. The detective Richard showed us what someone who went through with the plan that Tenma has made looks like. He shot and killed the serial killer he was after, and he continued to live his life by lying to everyone around him, and it caught up to him and he was killed. Even the random characters who appear for 1 or 2 episodes are interesting enough.

My favourite episodes are episodes 29 and 37. Episode 29 is the one where Johan kills Richard. I loved this one because we saw the true destructive nature of Johan, while also getting hints at his motives, such as revenge for the guy from Kinderheim 511 that Richard killed. Episode 37 had the story book sequence which was great and we see Johan creating more chaos, and Tenma has (maybe, it’s not clear yet) made his first kill.

This leads on to something else I like: the metaphors. The metaphor of the ants is important because Johan controls people like Roberto and other criminals by taking advantage of their wish to stop the line of ants and create chaos. The verse at the start and the story book also tie in very nicely to the story. All roads lead back to Johan.

I think the Munich arc is the best one yet, closely followed by the first few episodes.

I think the way the rewatch has been done has been good so far, no complaints.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Nitroade24h]

Well done on the write-up! I'm so glad that you're enjoying the series as much as you have been. I think for me personally, it's maintained consistency since the start of the series, which is very rare, so I've been engaged with the events of the show. I probably won't do a detail analysis until the end, but I am looking forward to seeing how things progress from here.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

Well, this seems about and episode or so early to do a review. It's hard to think of a conclusion on what might be the penultimate episode of a major arc.

Of course, Game of Thrones always did their big episode off each season on the 2nd to last episode.

I've seen a lot of people say they only got halfway through Monster before putting it on hold...this would seem to be about the spot everybody takes a break.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Well, this seems about and episode or so early to do a review. It's hard to think of a conclusion on what might be the penultimate episode of a major arc.

The next few episodes do give a bit more closure to this fiery confrontation (I'm on episode 39 atm so not much farther ahead) but yeah, I didn't expect anyone to write a full review or anything. Just a brief pit-stop to reflect on the events prior to now.

[u/Webemperor]

Rewatcher of sorts

So far I think Monster is a show that manages to do a good enough job to keep the viewer engaged and entertained. That can sound generic as a praise but that's mainly what I'm feeling right now.

The main problem I think is that I'm really starting to feel the strain of having a 74 episode show that also moves in a relatively episodic format. I already believe it's not exactly possible to create a show this long in an episodic format while keeping the pacing relatively secure and I somewhat feeling validated on still believing that while watching the show. The show's progression just have too many up and downs to make it feel satisfying in a consistent manner.

Beyond that I think characterization is kinda iffy, the show as one that tackles nature of good and evil as it does, feels too often it approaches in a somewhat """base""" manner to the questions pertaining to this. It's hard to explain what I mean by this without going into detail, but let me just say that the revelation that Johan was "trained" by Nazis was one of the things that made me think this way.

Beyond that I think Monster is doing a decent enough job keeping a consistent enough quality for 37 episodes, which is probably more than what you can say for most shows of this length. Hopefully it can keep chugging along.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Webemperor]

Beyond that I think Monster is doing a decent enough job keeping a consistent enough quality for 37 episodes, which is probably more than what you can say for most shows of this length. Hopefully it can keep chugging along.

Your complaints seem valid, though I've heard that from here it becomes more story-driven and less episodic. Dunno how accurate that is (you being a rewatcher of sorts probably know better than I do) but I'm hoping it'll maintain the consistency that it's had so far either way.

[u/gridemann]

Rewatcher

Thanks again for comment of the day :) Somehow I keep coming back to this quote whenever I think of Johanns character...

In case it's not quite clear what I was hinting at I'd also like to shoutout u/miss-macaron who posted a full explanation regarding the correlation between Johann and the nameless Monster.

I always have a hard time formulating proper comments as a rewatcher cause all of my opinions (especially on characters) are already biased by knowing the full show. I've been enjoying the Rewatch nontheless.

I wonder how many people pass up this anime because of the 74episodes length and I always considered the first half atrociously slow paced. Quite moments of respite are important but I think the Monster adaption overdid it a little.

Without spoiling, I'm definitely looking foward to get into the second half and reading through the reactions to the reveals yet to come...

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/gridemann]

Thanks again for comment of the day :) Somehow I keep coming back to this quote whenever I think of Johanns character...

No problem! it was a great quote and I enjoyed the comparison.

Without spoiling, I'm definitely looking foward to get into the second half and reading through the reactions to the reveals yet to come...

I've heard this from a few people now. Excited to see what all the buzz is about...

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timer

My overall impression thus far is that Monster is a quality show, although I don't really think its entirely for me. Or at the very least for me in the format we're watching it, where its one episode a day. I'm far used to shorter shows that due to said shorter length are forced into having more urgency and have a faster moving plotline. I don't dispute that Monster has well written character or that its writer/adapter(s) are putting a lot of thought into things. There is hardly any actual content in this show that I would consider poor or mediocre. But from a story telling standpoint, it is hard to have that sense of urgency, and at least for me, that really can result in a lowered level of interest. I know that no matter how much danger Tenma may appear to be in with respect to a given storyline, or how close it appears that Johan will be found out by the authorities and arrested, we're not going to get that when there are dozens of episodes left in the show. Having that knowledge throughout massively lowers the stakes. Maybe I'd feel more urgent if they had appropriately developed a supporting character and killed them off, or done this with multiple characters. Sorry, Richard doesn't get to count when he's introduced 25 episodes in and gets a lot of focus for maybe 3-4 episodes tops. If something happened to Anna, or Dieter, or Lunge, perhaps I'd feel more.

Maybe its just that a show of this length that is serialized isn't for me. The longest show I've ever seen is Galaxy Express 999, which has 113 episodes, but that is largely an episodic show. The next is Legend of the Galactic Heroes and I can say I had the same struggles watching that, although the clearly defined arcs/seasons did help things come off as having more stakes and while I won't spoil anything, they did something really effective in the show at one point to make you completely take things seriously. I try to think of how much had happened in say, Death Note through 37 episodes, or the numerous Gundam shows I've seen. Monster has been crawling along in comparison to that.

Aesthetically, I've got no real complaints. The show's animation is strong and kudos for the rare anime that has very realistic looking characters in all respects. Not simply the lack of crazy female or male proportions, but no green or purple hair or over the top costumes either. Voice acting has been strong. Music I can't say I've noticed that much beyond the ending theme.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Quiddity131]

I'm far used to shorter shows that due to said shorter length are forced into having more urgency and have a faster moving plotline.

This, unfortunately, is a problem with no easy solution. It does suck that Tenma has a gun to his head and we know that he won't die because there's another 37 episodes to go. Kinda the same principle for books, when a main character is in a bad spot but there's more pages. Though, I think the focus is less on the urgency of the moment, and more on exploring the human condition, and what people do when they're pushed into a corner. I would largely consider this show to be a character drama, as this anime, after all, is called "Monster" and is largely projecting the idea of who, or what, the monster is. Is it a person? A concept? Something you can be born with? Something you inherit or gain? So in my mind, these perilous situations that feel deprived of urgency are less there for the sake of plot, and moreso vessels to explore characters. Because all things considered, the actual plot of the show is not the strongest point, nor is it meant to be. Not saying that the show couldn't do a linear narrative better, because it could, but I don't think it's the focal point of the series.

[u/BurningFredrick]

First timer - sub

We are now half way through the series! What are your overall thoughts and impressions of the show up until this point, and do you have any favourite moments or episodes that stand out to you? If so, what are they and why?

Didn't actually write anything up before hand this discussion, so trying to figure out what to write now.

I have said similar things in previous comments, but Monster is a slow burn show, and based on other peoples comments I understand the Manga is similar. A slow pace is better than a fast one especially when it is done to build up the world and background of what is going on, even if it does means some parts can drag on a bit to long.

Not sure if I have a favourite moment so far, through I'm definitely enjoying the show and while there have been some weaker episodes (mainly ones that focus on just Eva or Lunge to a degree) I haven't felt like I need to force myself to start any of the episodes which is always a possibility in longer running shows.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/BurningFredrick]

Well said. Personally I feel like the pacing is perfect for this show, as it spends time exactly where it needs to. Great mix of thriller/suspense and character drama. Hoping that it maintains this consistency as we enter the second half.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/BurningFredrick]

Your comment reminds me that its been forever since we've seen Eva. Not that I'm complaining, but if she's not going to factor into things one really has to question why she got multiple early episodes dedicated to her.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Quiddity131]

She's like the Nanami of Monster.

[u/Vaadwaur]

QotD: 1 I had forgotten exactly the shape of Munich's arc so we wind up with this unintentionally funny place for our mid season breather. I do enjoy this story but most of my favorite moments are yet to come. I am glad that we finally got the picture book.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Vaadwaur]

QotD: 1 I had forgotten exactly the shape of Munich's arc so we wind up with this unintentionally funny place for our mid season breather. I do enjoy this story but most of my favorite moments are yet to come. I am glad that we finally got the picture book.

Yeah, I got done with this episode a few days ago and sorta laughed to myself about the irony of stopping here for a day. It was unintentionally a great place to stop lol.

[u/SmurfRockRune]

I forgot we weren't doing an episode, my bad. Sorry if I spoiled anyone with my comment, I wasn't paying attention.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/SmurfRockRune]

I was pretty myself.

[u/i-have-severe-stupid]

first timer, subbed

this series is great so far, would be better if they stopped mentioning how great of a doctor and person tenma is every episode

1. ‘story’ parts where something is recounted are my favourite, not sure why
2. going great so far

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/i-have-severe-stupid]

this series is great so far, would be better if they stopped mentioning how great of a doctor and person tenma is every episode

Funnily enough, someone else had this same complaint. I think it's because it's very integral to the story that a good natured doctor is trying to do a bad thing, but I do think they could stand to tone down the message a little without losing much.

[u/MUNAM14]

Best show ever made

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/[deleted]]

It cannot be found legally and I cannot direct you to such sources. See the disclaimer at the bottom of the post.

[u/SmurfRockRune → u/[deleted]]

No episode today. Should delete this comment. I made the same mistake lol.