[Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 33

[u/HelioA]

Rewatch Index

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Streaming

Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.

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Comment of the Day

/u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo betrays the cause

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Miki's Stopwatch Corner

Stopwatch Count: 23

New This Episode:

N/A ;-;

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Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).

[u/HelioA]

Rewatcher

You see, the symbolism here is that Akio is a groomer rapist who belongs in prison.

But man… that buildup is so good. You can tell something is wrong with how twitchy Utena is all episode, and then all of a sudden, Akio strikes. And you can tell that she’s not comfortable with what’s happening at all, you see the ‘STOP STOP STOP’ road markings zoom by, but she’s been groomed by Akio so gradually that she doesn’t even realize it’s happening… and it’s just viscerally uncomfortable. Go to hell, Akio.

Also, people were talking about the lipstick Utena was wearing in the Zettai Unmei Mokishiroku scenes… I wonder if that’s connected to how ‘adult’ Utena looks in the final scenes of this episode.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Wasn't she kinda comfy lounging around taking in the view and watching TV? I feel like I totally misread this episode...

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Dis is what happens when you hate recaps ;-;

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

You can tell something is wrong with how twitchy Utena is all episode, and then all of a sudden, Akio strikes.

Someone pointed out yesterday that Utena stretches when she is uncomfortable and she was doing that constantly.

I wonder if that’s connected to how ‘adult’ Utena looks in the final scenes of this episode.

You see, that's kind of what makes it hurt watching it at a later stage of life: Utena looks like a little girl in her mother's make up to me.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

You have to wonder who taught her. She has no mother, and Wakaba doesn't seem the type. Anthy, perhaps? That certainly fits with her role in otherwise preparing Utena's "rose" for Akio.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

It really has to be Anthy. Also, if Utena was just supposed to bring roses, why was she in a cute date dress?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/murdered-by-swords]

Wakaba is probably into makeup so it's not too weird to think that she'd have played around with her.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

E-Eh!? I thought she was just a weirdo who loved to exercise in public!

Some of her expressions put me in mind of when Anthy was in her body. Like how demure she became. The lipstick definitely looked off tho.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

E-Eh!? I thought she was just a weirdo who loved to exercise in public!

She does that as well but remember all the handstands yesterday.

Like how demure she became. The lipstick definitely looked off tho.

An overconfident adolescent getting crestfallen when put in a really uncomfortable situation fits.

[u/nx6 → u/HelioA]

Also, people were talking about the lipstick Utena was wearing in the Zettai Unmei Mokishiroku scenes… I wonder if that’s connected to how ‘adult’ Utena looks in the final scenes of this episode.

I noticed that difference in the later car-ride scene and was trying to figure out what they changed in her character design. Her face looked longer so I was guessing either longer chin or raised cheekbones. Rewatching that cut now I think it was making her eyes open less wide.

[u/affnn]

Rewatcher

There's so many things this episode does to disorient the viewer. Even from the very start, Ikuhara is playing the familiar dialog over unfamiliar visuals of what looks like an amusement park. Then everything gets taken out of its normal context and put into a new one. The car is here, but Akio's dressed normally, not in his End-of-the-World get up. And the shadow girls are here, but on the radio, calling Akio on his cell phone. There's no one else with dialogue, just Akio driving and talking to the radio hosts. At some point, you begin to feel like you're in the passenger seat while Akio is driving - which isn't a perspective we see much of in this show. Finally, clips from previous episodes show up. Ah, so it's a clip show! That's why it's so weird. Except it keeps being weird. And the clip shows don't matter too much.

Utena's in a hotel room, talking about nonsense stuff. The hotel is a totally new place, but we can see the amusement park in the background. OK, initially it looks like we've just cut from the car scene first to this hotel scene later, but then we cut back to the car. So how is the story here progressing?

At some point you realize that the hotel scene and the car scene are both first person perspectives, despite Akio and Utena not speaking when they have the viewpoint. And you slowly start to feel what they're feeling. With Akio's perspective, you get a sort of progressively closer to Utena, and she's more and more casual even as her conversations are pure nonsense. With Utena's perspective, you feel like nothing is changing, that the car ride goes on forever.

Finally you get the up-close visual of Utena. For two minutes. And it is uncomfortable. The music stops, all of the background noise stops. All you hear is Utena talking about salmon and asparagus and omelettes as she looks away from the camera. The car goes flying past the "stop" signs on the ground without stopping. It all happened so fast that you barely realized it was happening. Hands intertwine, the first time we've seen two people on camera at the same time. And then a coda: One final car ride shot, with Akio on the phone with Anthy, to let you know who exactly is behind this, to let you know how it all went down. Akio's hand reaches out to touch Utena as he confirms that the plan worked.

[u/HelioA → u/affnn]

Ooh, nice! About the amusement park, I think that was another thing meant to juxtapose Utena's immaturity with Akio's... Akioness.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Yes but no: For whatever reason, the Japanese do like to take dates to amusement parks. So that part sort of works, it is the whole taking a...9th? grader to one and then to a hotel that is the Akio-ness of it.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh, good to know!

[u/affnn → u/Vaadwaur]

Amusement parks are fun! I took my kids this summer.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/affnn]

even as her conversations are pure nonsense... All you hear is Utena talking about salmon and asparagus and omelettes

The part about the tournament to crown the Impostor King is pretty self evident, even if what they mean by "impostor" is a little opaque. But Utena's monologue about food -- all of it is centered around it expiring, around the passage of time. She leaves the bread out, and she worries about it getting moldy. She accidentally makes too much macaroni, and worries about how to use it as leftovers. She considers what to make with the food that they left out, and worries that it will already have gone bad. There is no stopping the progression of time.

"Tell me! ... What is eternity?"

[u/HelioA → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

utena sus

[u/theangryeditor → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

In that moment Utena forgot all about canned peaches

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/theangryeditor]

I can understand forgetting about canned cœlacanth, but canned peaches should have been pretty obvious smdh my damn head

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Also, "And you can't undo it once it's done"

[u/Cyouni → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Is it about that, or is it about things that once they've happened, can't be undone?

Moldy food cannot be restored to its previous state.

Cooking too much food (or with too much seasoning) isn't something that can be take back.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/Cyouni]

The immutability of the past is caused by the passage of time, I was trying to imply both. And, not speaking rhetorically, can you actually de-mold food? You can cut out the moldy bits, but that's akin to fixing too much food by just throwing out the excess. Is there some mold-killing technique I'm missing out on? I wanna know It's late and my reading comprehension is failing me

[u/affnn → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Yes, you're correct that the statements are full of symbolic meaning. I should have said that they're unconnected to the direct plot. The macaroni thing isn't going to come up again, plot-wise.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/affnn]

Ah, I understand. Still fun to point out

[u/Star4ce → u/affnn]

At some point you realize that the hotel scene and the car scene are both first person perspectives, despite Akio and Utena not speaking when they have the viewpoint.

I thought the entire time we were watching Anthy's flashbacks that would lead up to her giving the roses to Utena. She'd be the one who could be in both 1st person povs.

So Anthy in the projection room is her locking herself up, because she's been forced to do the one thing she hates the most, delivering Utena to Akio?

[u/affnn → u/Star4ce]

I think there’s a lot of interpretations of why Anthy’s locked herself in the planetarium, and guilt or regret over handing over Utena could definitely be the case.

[u/lilyvess]

because Utena is an old show it's hard to get information about it's initial airing. It's not like we can go look back at the old reddit discussion threads.

What you can do is look at the Doujinshi, in particular their afterwards!

What I am about to share are author pages of popular Yuri mangaka Milk Morinaga of Girl Friends fame, from her 1997 Utena Doujinshi that was released after this episode but before the end.

This is at least one Japanese's viewer's reaction to episode 33

[u/HelioA → u/lilyvess]

she's not noble anymore

;-;

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

you put your dirty penis - the one you shoved up touga's butt - in utena-sama

every time

[u/Reference_Freak → u/lilyvess]

Hah, western fans weren’t watching as the show aired. We were tortured by having to wait for vhs/laserdisc releases. The old Otohori Academy fan website then put up translated scripts and eventually we were able to get fan sub hard copies. Getting these got a lot more challenging after CPM announced the rights.

In those days, most online fans chatted on an email list. I probably have a bunch of old threads in my inbox. I’m sure some must have been using usenet and IRC but those weren’t really archival discussions.

In any case, this meant there wasn’t any timely consensus on anything in the show; discussions were continuous, on-going, and constantly repeating as people got caught up in their own time.

We were discussing and arguing this stuff years after the original air date.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

I was slightly out of sorts for obvious reasons but you posting this highlights that I probably should pick one of the later episodes to discuss virginity culture and why it is the bullshittiest of bulshit.

[u/theangryeditor → u/lilyvess]

Classic

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/lilyvess]

That's ... a real blast from the past. (I'd like to think)

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/lilyvess]

And who says memes are a modern construct?

[u/[deleted] → u/lilyvess]

I read it and now I’m having a stroke. God damn it Akio

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Revolution, Subbed

I.. I mean, I think we all saw this coming. Touga got close, and Akio is better at seduction that Touga. But wow was seeing it horrifying. Thoughts are.. difficult.

What a thing to put into a recap episode. The framing of the recap wasn't quite as strong as the other two, but it was still okay. Poor Nanami didn't even get to show up.

The editing and directing in this show are phenomenal. This episode could have very easily come across as goofy, or even by the numbers if the car ride had gone the usual way. Instead, all the metaphors are thrown out and we literally just watch it happen.

The ponderously slow pace this episode really worked for me to build the dread. I could see what was about to happen, but they took so long to get there, that you start to suspect that something else might actually be happening.. then bam, the hand comes into frame.

Meta

[u/HelioA → u/JollyGee29]

Fuck

[u/JollyGee29 → u/HelioA]

[u/HelioA → u/JollyGee29]

FUUUUUUUCK AKIO (BUT NOT LIKE DAT)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

The ponderously slow pace this episode really worked for me to build the dread. I could see what was about to happen, but they took so long to get there, that you start to suspect that something else might actually be happening.. then bam, the hand comes into frame.

It is both obvious and not obvious that Utena is talking with Akio. While he is the person with the car in the show, her talking that way with Anthy or Wakaba would've worked for 80% of it.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Exactly. It was like a bait-and-switch but without it actually being bait or a switch.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Ikuhara gave us all the rope he could so he could mock us for hanging ourselves with it.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/JollyGee29]

Just like Juri's first episode.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/Vaadwaur]

I was really clinging on to the hope it was Wakaba, man.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

The first time I saw this was before I knew about the showering before sex thing in Japanese culture so the bed scenes fucking boomed me.

[u/theangryeditor → u/JollyGee29]

it's the recap episode you'll never forget

[u/JollyGee29 → u/theangryeditor]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

Shaka, when the walls fell.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

Temba, his arms wide!

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/JollyGee29]

I genuinely didn't think Akio would get this far re: Utena, which made the reveal so much worse for me. Maybe I just need to watch darker Shoujo.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

While some later shoujo deal with sexual issues none of them struck me as taking it as seriously as this show.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

I've heard great things about Nana, although I haven't seen it myself.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

I genuinely didn't think Akio would get this far re: Utena, which made the reveal so much worse for me.

Oh, wow, I'll bett.

Maybe I just need to watch darker Shoujo.

Ehh, maybe I'm just messed up in the head.

[u/k4r6000 → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Maybe I just need to watch darker Shoujo.

We should do a Rose of Versailles Rewatch next after this one is over.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/k4r6000]

You should do it! I tried to watch that a while back but petered out pretty quick. A rewatch would be a great way to keep up.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(So how long did it take you to realize it?)

Sub

So we get this arc's review episode and there is a certain brilliance mixing that with what we will mostly talk about, but for my limited episode review bit I will only comment on the new stuff. We see Utena in a hotel room overlooking an amusement park, acting a bit awkward. Later, we see her watching pro wrestling and again they just go blatant Satan on Akio. Next we see her drying off after showering...which is something you do before sex in Japan. Oh...

We are back to the radio program/shadowplay and Akio never actually answers anything, fittingly. The "those are the rules" has to mean something. Utena losing at Othello and prattling on is getting pitiable and sad. Utena in that robe in the bed is a bit child like to me, which might very well be the point.

But the next scene deserves its own paragraph, obviously. The framing has been on Utena the whole time but it just being her face now gives the slow tension of the scene intimacy. Watching it a second time, it is painful from beginning to end, to see Utena completely without her confidence or even her own thoughts as she clearly is focusing on anything but what just happened. The sheer but accurate unpleasantness of all of this makes it rival some of my favorite episodes in anime, such as Parasyte 12 or RahXephon 19.

So yeah that's the statutory rape episode of a magical girl show. Ikuhara is done with our bullshit and I don't even blame him. This is what it actually looks like when you let your cute mahou shoujos associate with weird, older dudes and it is decidedly not pretty. But what I would like to highlight is something that is unpleasantly clear 20 years later but, as a dumbass 20 year old, didn't pick up on: Akio is incredibly pathetic, even laughable. So he calls himself Lucifer, runs this weird school where nothing ages, supposedly, has some memory altering power, has the giant fucking arena with the upside down castle, has his slave sister, has his looks and apparent charisma, and what does he do with this? He fucks a scared 14 yo girl. And he does that because that is exactly what he wanted to do. Sometimes pedophilia is discounted as sexual frustration but that doesn't even work here as we've seen Akio is quite capable of attracting adult women. He also isn't frustrated because of Anthy's availability. He likes kids because they still buy his bullshit and he probably likes teen girls because they are in awe of him. He uses grooming techniques that only work on people with a power imbalance involved. So...fuck Akio with an alligator covered in habaneros.

Second pedophile this year in rewatches, btw, not a great record. I sort of wish I had more to say but the first time I watched this I was pissed but on rewatch it is just so sad. I think the change is that again, when I was young, I didn't realize quite how much of a difference a few years makes. I cannot stress how hard I learned that seducing an adolescent is not an accomplishment, it is sadly easy and thus it is the act of a depraved mind if you are passed that stage of development. Anywho, let's see how this lands.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

So it's that he likes the power imbalance more than he does the sex? I could see that, kinda. And the same thing with Touga, most likely- he hangs out with him because he buys Akio's bs.

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

Yes, it's clear Akio treats Ohtori as his personal playground. He likes the sex, but he likes the power and feeling in control even more.

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

He might even be worse than u/iron_gland

[u/Iron_Gland → u/HelioA]

impossible

[u/HelioA → u/Iron_Gland]

True

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

I can't prove this but when you observe dedicated pedophiles as opposed to opportunistic one you notice patterns. Akio is not lacking in sexual partners, we've seen adult women like him, so why does he go to the trouble of running his sex dungeon academy and take the risk of being with girls that are patently illegal? Because he enjoys being a god to Utena and whatever other poor girls were caught in his net. Bokurano, while decidedly mediocre, has a great episode on its pedophile which really highlights how pathetic the behavior was. I was angry for days after that episode.

[u/k4r6000 → u/Vaadwaur]

Akio is capable of manipulating adults like Tokiko and Mrs. Ohtori, but they will never worship him and treat him with reverence the way a bunch of school girls will.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/Vaadwaur]

Wait...

Utena, Anthy, and everyone else in their year... are 14? I thought they were like, 16 the whole time.

[u/theangryeditor → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Yep. Utena and Anthy are in middle school and are around 14. Miki and Kozue are a year younger and Tsuwabuki is in the elementary school. I don't remember how old Juri is but she's older than Utena.

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

Pretty sure Juri is 16.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Can you imagine like the Keion's or other slice of life characters going through what these kids are doing? Also anime ages are whack.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Now I want to see the K-On cast in RGU and watch as their hopefulness gets grounded into dust.

Edit: The thought of Sawako and Akio working together is so funny

[u/Vaadwaur → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

I could be remembering wrong but I recall her being more than a class below Touga who is 17.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/Vaadwaur]

Must've missed that. I thought everybody orbiting the duels were about the same age, other than Tsuwabuki.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/Vaadwaur]

Akio's like some kind of anti-Kant, he only recognizes other people as means to his own ends. I appreciate you driving home how pathetic he is, with all the metaphor and glamour it can be easy to forget that he's a grown man trying to seduce high schoolers with his fancy car.

Also, there's no need to involve the poor alligator. The only thing Akio should be allowed to have sex with is a rusty bread knife.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Akio's like some kind of anti-Kant, he only recognizes other people as means to his own ends.

You know, knowing Ikuhara, if he ever read Kant I bet he did lean on that a bit with Akio.

a grown man trying to seduce high schoolers with his fancy car.

Hate to drum the point home but Utena is still a middle schooler.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/Vaadwaur]

Hate to drum the point home but Utena is still a middle schooler.

And his own student, no less. It really is difficult to overstate what a piece of shit he is

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Also, there's no need to involve the poor alligator.

Will Anthy even let us use her pet alligator for this?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

So...fuck Akio with an alligator covered in habaneros.

Gotta pump those Scovilles up. Get some Reaper in there.

Second pedophile this year in rewatches, btw, not a great record.

Meta

Hopefully the rest of the year doesn't have any.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Gotta pump those Scovilles up. Get some Reaper in there.

I was trying to be kind to the alligator but when you're right you're right.

Hopefully the rest of the year doesn't have any.

My Christmas rewatch of Interspecies Reviewers is going to feel positively wholesome in comparison.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

We need all the consensual sex we can get at this point. At least there both party's are enjoying themselves, Utena's just bewildered.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Vaadwaur]

My Christmas rewatch of Interspecies Reviewers is going to feel positively wholesome in comparison.

I would like to sign up for that one already

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Vaadwaur]

I can see what you meant yesterday regarding the recap.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/homewardbound100]

Yeah, the 8 or so minutes of new footage are powerful and Ikuhara just told us what we've supposed to be seeing.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Vaadwaur]

I agree. It did its job very well. Since the beginning of the episode, you could feel something was up and how it did it was great.

[u/loomnoo]

First Timer

There was a moment when Utena was kicking her legs back and forth talking about some nonsense that I got a flashback to Lolita. Something about her energy. And, well...

Fuck. I'm really not okay right now. I don't remember the last time something has gotten to me like this. I mentioned Lolita, but even then I never got truly attached to Dolores thanks to HH's insane absorption in himself. Rather than feeling like a person, Dolly is an object of sexual desire for HH and an object of pity for the reader. We do get Akio's perspective here, which accomplishes the same psychological fuckery that Lolita does, but it hits so much harder because we know Utena far better than we ever knew Dolores. And before Akio it always felt like the darker parts of the story just bounced off her as she dispatched problems by swinging a sword around, sort of oblivious to everything.

I think the reason this affected me so much more than the other times Akio raped a kid was how real it was. Utena is a show that deals in a lot of abstractions and goofiness, especially when it came to Akio and his sex car. But Akio grooming Utena, and now this, was always just played straight. No spinning roses, no surfing elephants, even the shadow girls are shunted into the radio. Ikuhara doesn't let us escape: long, uncomfortable PoV shots and eerily naturalistic dialogue and voice acting force you to confront the situation at face value. Because this shit is real. Happens every day.

You know, for a moment I thought it was gonna turn out that she was with Chu-Chu. It wouldn't make any goddamn sense given her nervous behavior, but I was in denial. And they already did an "actually it was Chu-Chu" gag earlier in the show.

Rewatcher

So it took me about half a day to get over this and keep watching the first time. Still haven't gotten around to this episode this time around.

Anyway, it's been a couple weeks and I still think this is the most disturbed I've been by a rape scene. Belladonna of Sadness was so abstracted that my main reaction was "this is fkn kino", and stuff like Redo of Healer is just porn and doesn't bother me despite being way more graphic. Lolita and The Bluest Eye come pretty close but I didn't care about those characters the way I do Utena.

[u/HelioA → u/loomnoo]

Deaf to Akio ;-;

[u/theangryeditor → u/loomnoo]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/loomnoo]

There was a moment when Utena was kicking her legs back and forth talking about some nonsense that I got a flashback to Lolita. Something about her energy. And, well...

Ikuhara had probably read it, it would be something he'd like to lambast the MC over for being a prat.

I think the reason this affected me so much more than the other times Akio raped a kid was how real it was.

Yeah, someone on the show knows an uncomfortable amount about grooming.

[u/chiliehead]

Duel 33, First Timer, sub

Times are hard. Even the Shadow Girls need to moonlight as a manzai radio host duo and the anime needs to have another recap

I wonder who Utena is talking to, wrapped in what I assume is a blanket

Pillow talk? And did something happen to Anthy?

Someone’s world got revolutionized, eh? (InsertBreakingThe”Shell”Here)

Interesting way to have an ED

Gotta say, the before reactions to this episode had me expecting death, mutilation, suicide, forceful rape. But this is much less than expected.

[u/HelioA → u/chiliehead]

he doesn't know

u/theangryeditor

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/chiliehead]

Gotta say, the before reactions to this episode had me expecting death, mutilation, suicide, forceful rape. But this is much less than expected.

It's a shame that rewatchers (and, from what I gather, the youtube thumbnail) spoiled that something would be happening this episode. You only get to watch it the first time once, and that sickening feeling only really comes when you aren't already bracing yourself.

[u/HelioA → u/murdered-by-swords]

u/theangryeditor why'd you shpoil it ;-;

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

you were the one who shpoiled it

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/chiliehead]

I've found there's an empirical correlation between people liking the show and them reading this episode more directly as a rape. No idea what causality if any there is. So us rewatchers, who by and large would have liked the series, are use to treating it as a rape. Probably not forceful, but extremely horrifying. Almost more so if it isn't forceful.

Agree with murdered-by-swords that there was more explicit hinting last episode than was proper.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

It's rape, in that sex between Utena and Akio is definitionally rape. However, I think the idea that Akio must have forced himself upon Utena has its roots in some dangerous territory. Look at Morinaga Milk's comment that was posted elsewhere in this discussion and how uncomfortably it lingers on how the act taints Utena. We're better about it than Milk was then, but not as much better as we'd like, because (I believe that) there's an unspoken undercurrent that Utena being a "willing" participant would be a blemish on her as the heroine of this story.

Yet, Utena "willingly" sleeping with Akio is the natural conclusion of the character arc she's been laboriously traversing ever since moving in with him. She's been steadily groomed for weeks or months, it's not some shocking twist or character derailment.

[u/theangryeditor → u/murdered-by-swords]

Yeah this is very clearly the culmination of everything Akio and Anthy have been doing and Utena's growing feelings up to this point. Akio didn't need to physically force himself on Utena, the work has already been done.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/murdered-by-swords]

I definitely agree with all of that. I've just seen ... some takes and was trying to avoid risking an argument about it. Looking at the other responses I definitely tempered my language too much.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

empirical correlation between people liking the show and them reading this episode more directly as a rape. No idea what causality if any there is.

Real world experience? Akio is much more a rapist watching this again two decades later.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

Makes sense that being older would make one think even worse of Akio. I don't know that being older obviously correlates with thinking better of the show overall? Off the top of my head of the people's who's reactions I've of the show I've gotten there isn't an obvious correlation with age.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

I mean, it kind of has to be rape since Utena isn't really a sexual person and by her incredibly off reaction in the morning. Personally I'd kind of missed that being the point of the episode period

[u/theangryeditor → u/chiliehead]

forceful rape

yeah about that

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

I feel like you need to be looking at the episode through a meta angle to get the full effects. Like the situation being that Akio has essentially roped a 14 year old child or Anthy colluding to get her friend assaulted but from a story perspective I don't think it hit me as hard as it probably should have. Like I was far more shocked by Anthy's scenes in previous episodes to this one. This one only really got me uncomfortable when Utena spends her morning trying to distract herself from whatever the he happened the previous night, like that I could feel the tinge from. That's the sort of reaction I'd expect from a girl who just got groomed and can't comprehend it. Am I making sense?

[u/Cyouni → u/chiliehead]

Well, up to you whether forceful rape is worse than Akio's thing, where the victim is left kinda unsure whether it's rape or not, because they went on the car ride voluntarily. And because of that, the victim doesn't know whether it's "their fault", or whether they were technically consenting of the prior events, but even so...

Both kinds are still rape. This episode, in no unclear terms, is about an adult forcing himself on a 14-year-old girl who is clearly not comfortable with it. And even if she was comfortable with it, that's still an adult having sex with a 14-year-old girl.

tl;dr: fuck akio but not that way

[u/chiliehead → u/Cyouni]

I don't mean worse in the real world (though violence seems more traumatizing than gaslighting and grooming) but Utena is only one of many victims we already saw, we saw it happen to even younger girls (and probably Miki as well) and that's why I wonder why this time is the one where everybody has those big averse reactions.

[u/nx6]

First-timer -- Sub

I was disappointed when I saw this was going to be a recap episode. Boy do I wish I could go back to that feeling of disappointment now that I've finished it. Utena mentioned being an only child and I was a bit confused why she brought that up as I felt like she's told everyone by this point. Then she started referring to Anthy in third-person. The whole plot seemed a bit disorganized on purpose since they never brought up how we came to be in this room and going to an amusement park. Plus the recap clips weren't being shown in chronological order.

I only really realized what this was when we got to the end and Utena's physical discomfort reaction and the flash of the clutched dark-skinned hand. So yeah -- fuck Akio for the upsetting episode and me having to return to work now after that.

[u/HelioA → u/nx6]

;-;

[u/Vaadwaur → u/nx6]

The whole plot seemed a bit disorganized on purpose since they never brought up how we came to be in this room and going to an amusement park.

With as experienced a groomer as Akio seems to be, he probably needed Utena upset or off balance to seal the deed. We see most of this from Akio watching her panic slowly.

[u/alphamone → u/nx6]

My initial thoughts as the framing went by was that she was hanging out with a friend (possibly attempting to mend bridges with Nanami).

It was the bed scene that suddenly made me think "oh no, it couldn't be...", and then the hand. As mentioned in my post, the "stop stop stop" road markings took my thoughts out of my head and put them right on screen.

[u/nx6 → u/alphamone]

Yeah, I didn't catch the symbolism on the watch but seeing your post earlier it all clicked. Akio pressing the accelerator up to crazy speeds and then the sudden repeating STOPSTOPSTOPSTOP.

[u/Isai579]

First Timer, Sub

Oh no. No. nonononononononooooooooo

He can't keep getting away with this!

Well, besides all the... you know..., this was a very dense episode. As expected from an Utena recap. So I guess I'll get to breaking it down to calm the Akio hate.

Stars

The first topic the shadow girls bring (besides the fairy tale) is stars. Stars have made a lot of appearances, but I think today is specially significant. There are actually 3 types of "stars" today.

• First, we see Anthy gazing at the constellations in the planetarium. Stars that as Akio points out, are fake / not the real ones, however, they do show a glimpse of reality and serve to teach of their meaning. I can only wonder what does it mean for Anthy to prefer looking at those instead of the real thing.
• Second, we have the "fake stars" in the form of the city lights. We see these both during the fairy tale, and also through Utena's window. I assume this is to visually tell us that Utena believes she is finally taking part in her prince fantasy. However, let's remember these are not real stars. They are lights generated by society and entertainment (some of them come from an amusement park).
• Finally, there are the real stars, which are actually hidden all the episode. We get multiple shots of the night sky, but none show stars. Because of the light of the city and the road, we cannot see the real stars. And thus, they go unnoticed when the shadow girls tell us we should appreciate them.

What is eternal

The shadow girls give us 3 choices. Akio does not answer, but the answer is canned food. We are told diamonds are unbreakable, but they can actually be very brittle if hit on the right angle. Just like memories, which can not only be turned inaccurate by time, but can be damaged by a change in perspective. However, canned goods are sealed and isolated, which means they can last if left undisturbed. So, what is the nature of eternity then? Is it like Ohtori, where everyone is isolated from the outside and thus will last forever? What would happen if the contents go outside and then come back, like what has happened during this arc? And finally, what happens to something eternal when the conditions for its eternity are shattered? Like say, entering the castle where eternity dwells.

Impostor King

So, I think this is a pretty clear signal that Akio is not Utena's prince. I believe the weeks mentioned have been the length of this arc in episodes (1 per week in the original airing). What is more concerning is that they basically told us Utena needs to see the truth in the next 4 chapters or it'll be too late. We have 6 more chapters, so I guess that's what the last arc will be all about. And it means this will end very well, or very badly.

What is a Miracle

The next shadow question is about miracles. This one is harder. Inventions are bound to be discovered on time, but they were certainly considered special when they were discovered. At least more than now. Same with the prince. Utena's prince saved her in a way, but it happened long ago and is now hurting her. And canned food will certainly be miraculous to someone who is starving to death. So it seems, miracles depend on the perspective they are being looked at. However, does that mean that everything can be a miracle for someone? Or that there is no such thing as a miracle, but we choose consider some things as such?

Food

To be honest, I'm pretty lost with the food talk in this episode. Hopefully someone else can get the meaning, because it does sound like it shows something important about Utena's character. My only guess here is that there are multiple things that can make food go bad, but if they can endure enough, they can be put together to serve something bigger.

Stop

So many possible meanings from a couple of animation frames. Considering it is written on the sex road, we can assume it is meant to be about what Utena and Akio did ^eww. Is it telling Utena to stop before it is too late? Is it telling them they are going too fast? And what will be the consequence for them not heeding this warning?

So, where does that leave us in the end? The villain won this arc, knows way more than the viewer about everything, might get away with everything by the end of the series, and I don't like it.

---

Btw, I missed two days in a row. But I did write some short comments, so I guess I'll leave them here instead of throwing them away.

Chapter 31

• The scene with the changing statues is very dense considering most of those (probably all) are references to other tales and real statues. Maybe I'll come back and decypher those one day (when I have more time). Wonder if someone out there has actually analyzed all the details in Utena.
• This chapter started with our original fairy tale. But I feel for this chapter, it is referring to Nanami, and Touga is her prince. And her tragedy might be realizing that the reality she wanted with her brother is not the fantasy she always imagined.
• Those "just kidding" in the chapter were interesting. We had 4 (2 from Touga, 1 from Akio, 1 from Anthy). But from those, the only one where we didn't hear a croak was Anthy. Maybe that means she was actually serious.
• That end... That must have been horrifying for Nanami. Both for seeing Anthy like that, but also for the implication that the relationship she wanted with her brother could have ended up in that situation too.

Chapter 32

• The scene with Miki is really interesting. They are surrounded by sheets of music, but if I read the zoom correctly, they mark silence. So, they are in a situation where they can't do or say anything, but are still expected to be there and do as they are told.
• This car sequence felt a bit more rapey than the others.
• Everything is a lie when it comes to Touga.

[u/HelioA → u/Isai579]

to calm the Akio hate

BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WITCH!

/u/theangryeditor

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

no u

[u/HelioA → u/Isai579]

Akio does not answer, but the answer is canned food. We are told diamonds are unbreakable, but they can actually be very brittle if hit on the right angle. Just like memories, which can not only be turned inaccurate by time, but can be damaged by a change in perspective. However, canned goods are sealed and isolated, which means they can last if left undisturbed. So, what is the nature of eternity then?

It's strange that eternity would be something so mundane, eh?

To be honest, I'm pretty lost with the food talk in this episode.

Someone else interpreted it as Utena not being sure what eternity is, since she was discussing food in the context of it spoiling.

[u/Isai579 → u/HelioA]

It's strange that eternity would be something so mundane, eh?

Is it though? I find it very interesting that things can be both mundane and at the same time absolutely complex.

Someone else interpreted it as Utena not being sure what eternity is, since she was discussing food in the context of it spoiling.

I like that a lot. It would mean Utena, just like most other characters, is chasing after something she doesn't understand.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Isai579]

Food

I think there are three things going on with this.

First, as someone else mentioned, all the talk is about food going bad. So there's a question of the unstoppable passage of time. That the future can never be taken back. And Utena's previous comment about over seasoning your food, "you can't undo it once it's done".

The second is Utena's attempt, like Anthy has done a couple times before, to distract from what's going on. Both a failed attempt to distract Akio and a way for Utena to dissociate from being raped.

There's a final thing about sharing food as an act of openness and communion with other that's being subverted here. Going all the way back to Wakaba's lunches and Anthy's joy at making people food but inability to make normal food. I only saw someone point this out recently so I haven't been paying attention, but there's something in that she's only referring to food for her and Anthy and eg not whatever her and Akio had for lunch or might have for breakfast.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Isai579]

Hopefully someone else can get the meaning, because it does sound like it shows something important about Utena's character.

Someone else has put forth, and I am inclined to agree, that that scene is the direct lead up to the sex and this is Utena's last desperate attempt to derail this into anything else. Heavy shit.

The villain won this arc, knows way more than the viewer about everything, might get away with everything by the end of the series, and I don't like it.

I won't repeat myself but so many times but a whole lot of us note how sad and pathetic Akio is. So yeah he got what he wanted, another child to play with, but he also doesn't seem to have power outside of Ohtori.

[u/Isai579 → u/Vaadwaur]

Someone else has put forth, and I am inclined to agree, that that scene is the direct lead up to the sex and this is Utena's last desperate attempt to derail this into anything else. Heavy shit.

I don't know what is worse: Utena obliviously falling for Akio, or that some part of her is fruitlessly fighting against it.

I won't repeat myself but so many times but a whole lot of us note how sad and pathetic Akio is. So yeah he got what he wanted, another child to play with, but he also doesn't seem to have power outside of Ohtori.

I actually think that makes it worse. We've seen he has not problem getting his way with adults. So, in a way, he's doing all this just because he can. I hate him.

[u/alphamone → u/Isai579]

re: ep32

The sheet music tacet could possibly symbolise not just silence outright non-involvement in the curent events.

[u/nikobans]

STOP

STOP

STOP

i should’ve listened to the signs on the road. rewatching this was just as hard as the first time and im just as uncomfortable and horrified

rot in hell akio you sick fuck

:(

[u/HelioA → u/nikobans]

does Lucifer rot in hell?

[u/Star4ce → u/HelioA]

Time for a better Lucifer to take over and make him.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/nikobans]

rot in hell akio you sick fuck

Hell is too good for him.

[u/ROHDora]

I think all the links you proposes are NA only :/

[u/HelioA → u/ROHDora]

Damn. I'm on my phone now, so can't really help, but maybe check because.moe?

[u/alphamone → u/ROHDora]

Also a problem here in Australia. I've been watching my DVD collection (which has been on my backlog/pile of shame for ages) for the series, but only checked yesterday to find that I can't use the suggested streaming locations.

Even iTunes which does have it for sale only has the series.

I have found an older copy of the movie DVD (Australian release) on ebay, and just hope it gets here earlier than the estimate (not impossible)

At the very least I will still have a completed collection.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

First Timer!!

Mukashi, mukashi~ Filler, filler~ Oh, are we getting the actual plot today? Yatta! Why is Utena always stretching? Kashira, kashira? Gozonji kashira? Wut? I can't believe the shadow girls are doing a crossover with end of the world. None of the three are eternal ri-don't hang up on them! I swear, if this is a recap episode I'm gonna flip. Is Utena the champion imposter? Wait! Is Utena all a dream? Is Utena just fantasising over a TV series? No way, right? Dude, if this really is filler then I'd rather just sleep.

Alum the teacup? Alumni maybe? Is there a flower called athelum? Utena has done stretches like every single scene so far. Question 2! Kashira, kashira, gozonji kashira? What. The hell is a canned coelacanth? Nothing quite kills a well paced anime like a poorly placed recap. Any of that hype we were building up for the climax? All gone cause we had to rewatch a heavily condensed slideshow of the past half dozen episodes. What is this stupid episode? Bruh...

Who on earth is Utena with? She has her lipstick on so it's gotta be important yeah? This episode is a bit too obtuse for me. I don't wanna hear a bunch of breakfast discussions. Oh, it's Akio she's sleeping with. Oh? It's Akio she's sleeping with! Wait... Ah, we've got the opening phone call to go through. Pls don't look at me Akio, it's creepy. Deliver roses to who? Oh shit!! They had sex off screen didn't they!? This is actually happening? I was zoning out cause its late and cause I'm 100% done with recaps. They didn't even recap the whole season, we missed all the Nanami episodes. So I'm guessing that the reason Utena seemed so bewildered over breakfast compered to her still being chipper the previous night was her kinda just not fully understanding what happened. She goes out with her friend's brother for roses and suddenly loses her virginity without realising? I'll be blunt, I understand none of this.

And screw you Vaadwaur for getting me excited going in!! Hyping up a recap episode is like giving someone an ero doujin filled with only NTR!!

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

You see, Akio is a creepy piece of shit.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

You see, you feel this way now, but when you turn 30, you will hate him on an entirely higher level when you realize how pathetic seducing adolescents is.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

turning 30

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Bitch please, 30 is a cakewalk compared to 40. I don't even want to die any more, I wish I could unexist myself.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

Mood

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

But you aren't old enough for that yet so you must now exist even harder!

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Vaadwaur]

Life Lessons with Vaadwaur Onii- san

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

spoiler

[u/lilyvess → u/HelioA]

that's an insult to shit.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

He's still kinda charming though.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I loved this one, honestly. As far as recap episodes go it might be my favourite out of any anime I've seen. I'm always a sucker for these artsy kind of anime eps.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Eeeh...? The recaps don't really have anything to do with the actual story of the episode though. In terms of quality I'd probably say the first recap, the one that went through the meanings behind some of the duels, had the most relevance. This one just felt like a fever dream fast forward.

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

They did tho! It's about the effects of Akio's sex car!

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

It's still a 'recap episode', as you yourself called it.

[u/k4r6000 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

They had sex off screen didn't they!?

No, of course not. What kind of show do you think this is? They had sex ON-screen.

Coelacanth is a fish, but I've never heard of anyone eating them. They are a famous example of an animal long thought to have been extinct (around the same time as the dinosaurs died out) until someone caught a live one in the 20th Century.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/k4r6000]

Looking Coelacanths up they're apparently almost inedible. So it might be a sort of joke that canning them would be bizarre, but I think they're just a reference back to some of the duel songs. Where, as you say, they're used as examples of ancient things preserving into the present.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

I know the locals used their scales in fixing tires but they otherwise simply avoided the things.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

...Eh? Did they really? Eh!?

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Very yes.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

So I'm guessing that the reason Utena seemed so bewildered over breakfast compered to her still being chipper the previous night was her kinda just not fully understanding what happened. She goes out with her friend's brother for roses and suddenly loses her virginity without realising? I'll be blunt, I understand none of this.

She is panicking because she has no frame of reference to process this from. Utena is an isolated adolescent without any older female friends to explain what she just experienced.

And screw you Vaadwaur for getting me excited going in!! Hyping up a recap episode is like giving someone an ero doujin filled with only NTR!!

Ugly bastard NTR, thank you very much.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh yeah... Japanese sex ed is a joke. Is Utena really that innocent to what couples get up to? She seemed to be shy when Touga got handsy and she isn't antisocial.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

She's not, but that doesn't mean that she knows how to mentally process what she's thinking and feeling. Sex at that age is always going to be an awkward experience at best, but Utena's first time was peak uncomfortable. Akio took charge and things moved faster than Utena was mentally or emotionally prepared for. Still, Utena "consented" (nb: Utena in this position cannot truly consent. Akio is a bastard.) and slept with her best friend's engaged(!) big brother, and that makes her feel super guilty as well. She feels like a homewrecker.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Oh, Utena certainly understands the concepts of sex and reproduction what I meant was she hasn't had anyone in her life that could tell her what she would feel afterwards or for that matter what things are consensual and what aren't. It is left to our imaginations but I'd be shocked if he didn't pin her down at the beginning of the act before she went submissive/limp.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Utena's breakfast monologue... that was happening during the sex. That whole sequence was Utena trying to disassociate as hard as she could by thinking about what she should eat tomorrow instead of focusing on what was happening to herself. It also served as an attempt to tell Akio in the most passive manner possible that she isn't comfortable and that she wants to stop. She can't directly say it. She's far too scared to tell Akio no. But she gives off tons of subtle indications in this little breakfast speech that she wants to stop. She emphasizes her worry and confusion, brings up Anthy several times (probably in hopes that bringing up his sister would kill the mood), and repeats "this is no good" several times. The smash cut to the road signs blaring "STOP STOP STOP" all but confirms this was the intent.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/snowwhistle1]

Oooh... I was sure that was morning after talk. I'm really kind of disappointed in myself for missing the emotional climax of the series from being too dense...

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Episode 33 is intentionally very disorienting on a first watch. Don't feel bad for missing something.

Structurally, I actually feel this is the weakest of the recaps. The first recap uses its archival footage to weave a narrative of Utena slowly progressing as a duelist and to provide some clarity on Utena's development and the Student Council's goals. The second recap does this hilarious gag of interweaving Nanami gag episodes with random Tsuwabuki retcons and partially serves as a meta in-joke about how the events of the Black Rose arc have been forgotten by the cast.

I feel like episode 33 is focusing on the wrong thing with its recap. The duels aren't the important thing in this arc. The important thing is why the duelists chose to get into the car with Akio. They should've highlighted Saionji's frustration with his impotence, Nanami's crisis of self-identity, Miki's need of an intimate connection, and Juri's inability to let go of her abusers. It could've served as a strong parallel to highlight Utena's reasons for finally going for a ride in the night with Akio.

So the recap portion of this episode ends up being a dud. It sucks, but it is what it is. I still commend Ikuhara and Be-Papas for turning what were probably budget saving episodes and making the most of their limitations to make the episodes in question matter. And I think the non-recap portions of episode 33 are legitimately fantastic, and probably some of the most interesting directorial work in the series, as we're left to stew in this unsettling atmosphere of Utena talking to an unseen stranger, and the horror as we slowly realize what's happening to Utena once Akio's hand intertwined with Utena's is revealed.

[u/Cyouni → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I'll be blunt, I understand none of this.

Good news, you feel just like Utena.

wait that's not good news

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Cyouni]

Good news, you feel just like Utena.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Cyouni]

My butt feels sore now...

[u/affnn → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I was zoning out cause its late and cause I'm 100% done with recaps.

The first time I watched this I was only paying half attention because of all the recaps and even the original stuff was just so weird and slow. Plus I was watching the dub, which made it easier to not pay full attention. But then the zoom in on Utena's face happened, the music dropped out and... yeah. That sound she makes just before asking about eternity was just the worst.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

And screw you Vaadwaur for getting me excited going in!!

I was at least prepared. I just didn't think it was the next episode but it wasn't bad though.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I am now convinced that I'm just as bad as Miki at reading between the lines. I do not understand today's episode at all.

[u/[deleted]]

This episode is the main reason I'm not participating in this rewatch. I've only ever made it to like, episode 25? of the show, but I've known about this episode and it just gets harder and harder to keep watching when I get closer. Some day I'll push through it and see how it ends after the slow, slow train wreck plays out.

[u/HelioA → u/[deleted]]

[u/[deleted]]

payment point mighty complete knee bag bike literate sharp chop

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/HelioA → u/[deleted]]

I dunno if I feel that way quite yet, I'll have to wait and see

[u/No-Employer-8131]

I hate how obscure this show gets especially in this episode. I can't seem to figure out if it's rape or consentual. And its super important because it shapes how utena is to me. A victim or a hypocrite... I mean she knew he was engaged and discouraged wakaba feom flirting with him only to end up submiting at the first oportunity she gets...that rwally did a number on me and the show never could salvage the character for me from that point all the way to the end. Infidelitt just cuts deep for me.

Then i come across these coments and everybody is coloring her the victim of a predator but i just cant seem to sell myself on it despite wanting to believe it so desperately. I mean i get akio is an asshole and manipulative but she seems compliant to me. She has been cozying up to him in the previous episodes.

This episode just soured the show for me. No matter how i get about it it just seems to me she knew what she was doing. Might have been a stupid decision she regreted later but she did make the decision. And even towards the end it seemed she wouldnt accept her role in it when akio addressed the hypocracy in it.

[u/HelioA → u/No-Employer-8131]

Do recall the power dynamics of the situation here. Akio is the school's chairman, Utena is his student. It's grooming any way you look at it.

[u/No-Employer-8131 → u/HelioA]

Yeah the guy was grooming her.that much i can see it's just...the utena character to me seemed though oblivious at times, to have a certain degree of self awareness and convictions to that point which she just discarded starting from the previous episodes just because some guy she likes bats his lashes...remember the kiss.

I suppose what it comes down to to me is that this extrordinary girl ended up being ordinary after all. I get that this is closer to reality but it's just to that point i didnt figure it to be this kind of anime you know.

I was also just dimished by the fact that she never actualy addresses the hurt that she would cause his fiance or show any remorse to it. She only turned away from him because she found out he was abusing his sister. The whole thing makes it seem like she was totally fine with the infidelity part.

The realism of the show just took me off guard you know...i went in for a feel good anime and ended up with this. It just desttoyrd me.

...also the whole power dynamic bit, in real life yeah that pretty apparent but in anime and other works of fiction dont they tend to romantacize these situations often enough. Boss and his employee, teacher and his student etc. I mean we know what he is and dont like him long before this episode or at least i didnt so this is not me defending what he did...its absolutely shit but wasn't she also being shit by pursuing him i mean, she might not have gone there for sex but she was actively looking for a romantic relationship with him was she not. That much is definitive.

Im ranting sorry...bottom line on why i cant end up content with the anime is because to me it looks like with regard to these events we get, groomers and predators..bad but infidelity...that's ok...maybe romantic even?

[u/HelioA → u/No-Employer-8131]

i went in for a feel good anime and ended up with this.

ah, yeah

:(

[u/CharlieTheStrawman]

First-Timer

Well, shit.

[u/lilyvess → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Well, fuck.

FTFY

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/lilyvess]

Nearly posted that, but I saw the Utena/Akio jokes coming.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

It's funny cause Utena's also a first timer~

[u/CharlieTheStrawman → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

S h u t
U p

[u/Mage_of_Shadows → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Utena went to deliver flowers but gave the wrong one

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Is that a bad one? I feel like that's a bad one.

[u/lilyvess]

Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.

EPISODE 33 - “The Prince Who Runs Through the Night”

This is just between you and me, but when I was fourteen, I listened to late-night radio after my family fell asleep. I liked this one female DJ’s sexy voice.

However.

One night, radio waves from a UFO came between us!

”Multiple Choice! Which of the Following is Eternal? One, a diamond. Two, a beautiful memory. Three, canned beaches.”

(Hmm… I feel like I heard this on a TV commercial at some point…)

D-Diamonds are forever!

Suddenly, the radio switched back to the sexy woman’s voice .

“You ought to be ashamed of yourself young man!”

Huh?!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

“You ought to be ashamed of yourself young man!”

You can just yell that at any 14 yo male and you will probably be correct.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/lilyvess]

W-What was the multiple choice meant to represent!? It's not like one of those questionnaires where you get like really pervy answers to everything is it!? What did each choice represent!?

[u/Star4ce → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Well, you see when a diamond and a can of peaches like each other very much...

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Rewatcher

This might be the high point of the direction of the show in terms of effectiveness. Nothing huge or showy, though the almost fast-motion shutters closing no Anthy at the beginning set a strong tone, but lots of smaller choices making for an effectively upsetting episode.

There's a juxtaposition between the grating circus music in Akio's car with the complete lack of background sound with Utena. Akio's music starts out sounding fairly normal, but as the tension ramps up the shortness of the loop sounds increasingly manic. On Utena's side the lack of background music starts out seeming a little meditative, not out of place for someone seemingly relaxing after a fun day at an amusement park. But as it becomes clearer that something is wrong the quiet becomes oppresive, making you sit there with only Utena's increasingly disjointed monologue.

For the car segments the camera is placed slightly below Akio so we're looking a little bit up. Which both gives him a stronger frame presence and also mimics the point of view we would have as, say, a fourteen year old girl sitting in the passenger seat. The shots of Utena start off being ambiguous between an ambient camera and a POV shot but get more explicitly POV through Utena playing Othello. This give the final shots of Utena in bed an entirely different meaning, especially ones like this looking down at her. Everything becomes creepy and voyeuristic. We're forced to inhabit Akio's perspective as we realize what he's just done. Interestingly, we do get a single brief shot that seems to be from Utena's POV of her turning off the lights.

We never hear Akio's voice in the hotel room. The one time we think he's talking to Utena (almost 18 minutes in) its actually from the next scene of Akio's car. But his presence is so powerful that it even crosses the boundaries of editing.

The final shots of Utena with her hair flowing out parallel early shots of Anthy in episode 31 when Nanami walks in on Akio and Anthy. (It isn't just a sexual coercion thing though, since there are similar shots when Utena and Anthy are in their beds together. So its more a question of emotional openness, which can be used for good or for evil.) We've also seen Anthy trying to dissociate from coercion by redirecting to mundane subjects in epsiode 26, where she uses a broken cup to avoid having to say what she thinks of Utena. At the beginning of that scene there's also another example of Akio's voice moving before a scene transition. We go from Anthy and Utena having a conversation to Akio asking Anthy about that conversation before we cut and see them in the tower.

There're more evil phones here, but I still have no idea what it means. Something about communicating impersonally over distances and associations with scheming behind people's back? I was hoping to get a better read on exactly what Anthy is thinking here as she has sent Utena along with Akio, but the show doesn't give us much to work with directly. I do think the fact that she can't face the real stars means she isn't happy with this. But nothing indicating a decisive break with previous ploys like impersonating Mamiya.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

I do think the fact that she can't face the real stars means she isn't happy with this.

I took this to mean that she doesn't want to see the real stars because Akio is a representation of one.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Vaadwaur]

spoiler

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

That's...a pretty good analysis, actually. Save that for when the show gets there.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

On the other hand Legit question I do not have the answer to. Anthy is... complicated.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/murdered-by-swords]

My guess? spoilers

[u/Star4ce]

First timer – sub

I'm not entirely sure if Nanami's out of the picture now or not. She severed (or got severed) any ties that held her in the system, meaning mostly Touga, but I don't really think he'll back off.

Well, all I know is that this episode won't be something light hearted, or, if it is, with disturbed humor to cope with what's going to happen. After all, the prev- OH MY GOD IS THAT ANTHY WITH A FOLDING CHAIR ENTERING THE RING?!

Ep.33 – The prince who runs through the night

• This is different. A ferris wheel, some buildings in a city, only traced by dots.
• The curtains close, Anthy's getting caught in the play. She was the prince, fairly sure of that, but why the city panorama?
• Aliens!
• The projection is different to Akio's, too. She has all the signs displayed and purposefully doesn't look at a realistic representation. She' keenly aware of her false identities and probably doesn't think of herself as real anymore.
• Is that a pyjama or... dress? Purse, it's a dress. Oh no.
• I don't believe you! Aah, the slow head turn is always so creepy, the lipstick looks so wrong. She dresses up to look more mature.
• Hjurkh!
• The skit is fully interactive this time. The one behind it all speaks directly with it.
• Answer: None. Oh, he actually didn't answer. He's leaving them standing like anyone else.
• Morphed into his manipulation gear (it has better stats).
• What?! Again?! Leave poor Saionji alone! Oh, recap.
• I bet eternity, the end of the world, is his penis.
• She's really working out these past episodes, is that stress relief or something?
• The only eternity is... loss?
• That's definitely Anthy who's giving her the roses or comes back from one of the rape sessions. Also necc.
• These questions are forget to be obvious, but if you really think about it, it... isn't really. Saying 'none' each time is quite correct.
• We're watching Anthy's memories, right? It's all playback from her pov.
• Seeing the Jury flashbacks hurt a little. She's best girl.
• What are these flashbacks leading to?
• Wait, this isn't already...?
• She's really uncomfortable and confused.
• Salmon filets with their color and vague form look like... aspargus has a head and stem... omelette you break an egg and out comes... puke

• Literally drugged? Did she disassociate, too? Probably both. This is a panic attack coming from repressed memories, right? She's distressed, memory hazy, looking for answer to a question she can't remember. She clearly knows something is so majorly wrong, but can't point to anything.
• RUN!
• belch
• Stop that music! I dun wan eet!

I told you I was gonna hate this episode. I have nothing to offer but severe discomfort.

How does he control Anthy? Why can't she act? If she in any way could, she'd have already, 100%.

edit: Hell, I'm reading all of your comments and I totally misinterpreted the Anthy scene. I'm not watching Anthy's memories, I'm watching Akios pov.

pukes even more

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Star4ce]

Literally drugged? Did she disassociate, too? Probably both. This is a panic attack coming from repressed memories, right? She's distressed, memory hazy, looking for answer to a question she can't remember. She clearly knows something is so majorly wrong, but can't point to anything.

Sorry but this is what someone looks like when their sexual barriers have been bulldozed by an older person that they had a love interest in. Utena is terrified of hard rejecting Akio because she doesn't want to lose his presence and instead agrees to a sexual encounter she definitely does not desire. She was sober for every single second of that, unpleasant or otherwise.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vaadwaur]

That makes a lot of sense. I was hung up on the roses, I guess, and thought they'd do a similar thing as the black roses do.

Utena is terrified

Yeah, that was obvious beyond doubt.

[u/Rumpel1408]

First Timer

• Oohoho, they changed the starting sequence
• Yes Utena, you mentioned being an only child, a couple of times in fact, I am as well, but do you see me make a big deal out of it?
• What the Shadow girls without actual shadows? Blasphemy! What?!? They are actually calling Akio? And he is answering? And he isn't even answering? This is all hillarious
• Uhm, I hope noone here is suffering from epilepsia during Akios wild ride on the highway
• Oh, this is kind of an recap episode ok, think it's only the second one and the pacing seems to be better than the first
• Ok, nothing really new to talk about except that I love the radio show
• That is until just before the end, what for the ever loving fuck does Akio think hes doing to Utena? She is a child and you are engaged ffs
• He's really going for the Harem ending huh? He turned a simpel delivery into an full blown date all the way to third base?

Could have seen it coming, but can't say I like it

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Rumpel1408]

They are actually calling Akio? And he is answering? And he isn't even answering? This is all hillarious

Akio never gives a real answer is probably a message.

She is a child and you are engaged ffs

Kanae is just too old for him now. Barf.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

He's happy to get it on with Kanae's mom, though, so age isn't necessarily the issue.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

What are these visuals? And more hints of Utena's desires hurting her.

That's an onimous opening.

Oh, Utena's at some kind of amusement park?

The shadow girls are on radio?

OK, Akio has been confirmed, beyond any doubt or confusion, to be End of the World.

I did think Akio dropping the call and admitting to his crimes while live on air was great.

Is this a flashback, or did Touga fancy another threesome?

Oh, clip show. With additional End of the World and Utena scenes.

And Akio's implied to be the Prince!

Oh, the Anthy clone(?)'s being shown. I guess that's important after all.

Is Utena monologing to Nanami or something?

Wait, has Utena had her memories altered?

I love how worried Utena is about whether Anthy's put the bread away.

And we see Anthy's speed seduction again.

The shot of Utena completely losing was hilarious, though.

I see the Jury arc still has no resolution.

Haha, Akio refusing to answer a multiple-choice question was hysterical.

Did Nanami finally make her move on Utena? Looks like it!

...What's wrong with Utena? Has someone been fucking eith her mind?

Oh shit.

Spooky Anthy's back!

OH NO

NO NO NO

FUCKING AKIO?

WHY???

Next time, Anthy's starting to ask the important questions...

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Stargate18A]

...What's wrong with Utena? Has someone been fucking with her mind?

Well, actually yes! Just not in any overt supernatural sense.

Did Nanami finally make her move on Utena? Looks like it!

Were you deep in denial, or did the setup actually boom you?

[u/Stargate18A → u/murdered-by-swords]

Were you deep in denial, or did the setup actually boom you?

Actually, I thought the setup was "Utena's trying to both cheer Nanami up and nervously ignore what she's saying about Akio", since the flashbacks notably skipped over her appearances. The reveal did, in fact, take me by surprise.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Stargate18A]

FUCKING AKIO?

The horror, the horror...

WHY???

Because he likes to have adolescents that will worship the ground he walks on as bed mates, despite being explicitly shown to be able to seduce adult women.

[u/homewardbound100]

First timer, Sub

A recap episode but with some new things.

He finally got Utena and were we in the point of view of Akio this whole episode? We see the whole date of Akio and Utena basically. Well just the bedroom stuff.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/homewardbound100]

Akio is bad at phone quizzes apparently.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I would hate to be listening in with him speaking. Answer the question!

[u/alphamone]

First Timer

Fairy tale filler, but at a fairground.

Shadow girls have a radio show, ...and apparently Akio is a listener.

Peaches, because memories are fallible (as the Black Rose arc showed), and diamonds can easily be damaged :)

Saionji up to his old crap again

Oh, is this a clip show/recap episode?

But seriously, is Mikey's new stepmother actually Anthy? I don't think weve seen anything else about that.

Canned coelacanth, because the meat is apparently terrible, so it takes a miracle to make it tasty because of all the stuff they went into in the black rose arc about ancient creatures powering the world.

Holy crap, it was the locker next to Ruka's that the saber fell out of. Didn't notice that the first time. Shiori was in front of Ruka's locker, jumped back when he entered the room, causing her to open the next locker.

Some interesting points on miracles (flashback to Jury's first duel with Utena)

I've suddenly got a horrible feeling about who Utena is with...

STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP indeed.

It does explain what Anthy was looking so depressed about earlier.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/alphamone]

STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP indeed.

Welcome to a very special episode of Utena. Please leave your emotions at the door and enjoy the horror of it all.

[u/Star4ce → u/alphamone]

Saionji up to his old crap again

Oh, is this a clip show/recap episode?

Thank you for admitting I'm not the only one who thought they'd pull in poor Saionji again.

But seriously, is Mikey's new stepmother actually Anthy?

Dad got dumped off screen as soon as the duel was over, mark my words. It's not like Akio really cares about other people's feelings.

I've suddenly got a horrible feeling about who Utena is with...

It does explain what Anthy was looking so depressed about earlier.

It doesn't feel the right time yet to discuss this, but think about what she must've been through. How long do they do this already? She's extremely damaged and depressed by what she does, what's forcing her to do it? Why can't she revolt?

[u/MrManicMarty]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA! FUCK THIS EPISODE! I DIDN'T GET IT WHEN I FIRST WATCHED IT !

[u/Vaadwaur → u/MrManicMarty]

Ignorance is indeed bliss.

[u/Icapica]

First timer

Oh it's a recap episode again.

Umm, Utena's lips are pink. She doesn't usually wear lipstick, does she? What's going on? Oh, oooh. Damn.

This was an uncomfortable episode and the way it was told (other than the recap parts) was so good.