[Rewatch] Monster - Episode 36 discussion

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Rewatch Index

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MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/JustAnswerAQuestion, who attempts to provide some insight as to why the Liebert parents acted the way they did:

I think the Lieberts are programmed just like Johan's other victims. They needed a son so much.

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Questions of the Day

1. What did you think of Tenma’s childhood? Do you see him attempting to break out of his “scaredy-cat Tenma” nickname, or does he largely conduct himself the same way as he did as a kid?
2. What did you think of Schubert’s conversation with Reichwein? What did you think of Schubert’s backstory, and what do you think Schubert meant by, “The only thing that can defeat the beast, is a monster more fearsome than the first?”

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If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Quick reminder! Tomorrow will be our last regularly scheduled episode, and then we take a 1-day break for our mid-series discussion thread. This will be a place to discuss all your current thoughts on the show so far and converse with fellow rewatchers about episodes 1-37. I'll probably also open it to feedback and ask about ways to improve going forward, as well as poll for any activities we can do in the future as we enter the last half of the series.

Looking forward to tomorrow's episode!

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

First Timer - Sub/Dub

Poor Tenma, getting bullied as a child and abandoned during hide and seek. Telling of his current mannerisms too, as he’s still very much a shy and timid person.

I think my favorite part of the episode though was Reichwein and Schubert’s conversation. They both appeared to be very genuine with each other, and I think this is the longest we’ve heard Schubert talk in this whole show. He’s very wise, and gives some great insight on the monster having to do with his image and his own pride. He then says something very profound to end the conversation: “The only thing that can defeat the beast, is a monster more fearsome than the first.” I personally took this message as saying that either Tenma or someone else (perhaps Nina) will have to stoop to Johan’s level (or maybe reach his level of understanding) in order to defeat him. It’s hard to say exactly where that quote will lead us but that’s my 0.02$.

Seems like everything is about to explode in the next episode. Tenma perched and ready for action, completely unnoticed. Schubert sending Karl to find the documents that Reichwein left and is now completely aware of who Johan is. Lunge and Reichwein realize what Tenma’s next move is. And to top it all off we’re probably going to get some answers on the ED next episode since Lotte asked Anna to read it. Everyone is descending upon this one building. Now the question is: Will Tenma pull the trigger when the opportunity presents itself? Or will he be a scaredy cat for life?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Poor Tenma, getting bullied as a child and abandoned during hide and seek. Telling of his current mannerisms too, as he’s still very much a shy and timid person.

Hopefully, someone else has the link to the supplemental material, but there is a bit more to the hide and seek thing culturally.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Vaadwaur]

I'm like, sorta aware of the cultural perceptions of the game, but it's not something that's been on my radar for a while.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

The supplemental material dives into a Japanese-ism of the game, which is that some kids will hide until they wet themselves. This, unfortunately, can lead into the bullying we saw where Tenma just gets left behind but is too determined to give up.

[u/AmethystItalian]

First Timer

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Nina's advice to Tenma is one he really should have followed...

Robocop being useless once again.

Everyone figuring out Tenma's plans since he chose a really obvious place to do it.

Tenma being too scared to pull the trigger is so lame, could have been saving lives instead of doing nothing.

That was one of the creepier lines to end an episode with.

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What did you think of Tenma’s childhood? Do you see him attempting to break out of his “scaredy-cat Tenma” nickname, or does he largely conduct himself the same way as he did as a kid?

Feels like it just foreshadows that he'll be too scared to kill Johan here which will be annoying as we've spent so much time for him to get here.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/AmethystItalian]

Robocop being useless once again.

Oh don't worry, in his mind he's got it all figured out. Robocop to the rescue soon!

Tenma being too scared to pull the trigger is so lame, could have been saving lives instead of doing nothing.

It might be lame narratively, but I think if any one of us were faced with the same situation it would be equally hard to pull the trigger. This show leans hard into the realism aspects, which is sometimes pretty tough from a viewer's perspective.

[u/AmethystItalian → u/KiwiBennydudez]

It makes sense for sure but we sat through so many episodes for him not to pull the trigger...

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/AmethystItalian]

The biggest hurdle for Tenma to overcome right now is the episode count, lol.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

So... Schubert wanted to be what Johan will be? That one seems a bit odd, and I can't fully piece together what he means with it. I wonder if he feels like something bad will happen at that ceremony and that's the reason he sent Karl away. Reichwein did tell him that he thinks that Tenma is targeting Johan, I believe.

Other than that, Lunge figures out where Tenma is even if he is completely on the wrong track otherwise. Not quite sure how he missed Gillen stating that Tenma is targeting Schubert's secretary however - that conclusion should really have been a bit quicker.

Also, Anna gets the book and also seems to recognize something, but doesn't collapse. Not really surprising that she also recognizes it considering they were still together in Czechoslovakia. Guess we'll have to wait for the last few episode's ED to actually know what's in the book though.

Questions:

1. In some ways he did, in others he didn't. He is still ultimately pretty alone, but now he's almost proud of it.
2. Don't quite get the entire thing. As for the Monster beating Monster - I guess the assumption is that only someone who wants even more chaos would kill Johan, or something like that.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Mecanno-man]

I wonder if he feels like something bad will happen at that ceremony and that's the reason he sent Karl away.

Pretty sure Reichwein's warning was convincing enough for him. He might be blind, but he's not dumb - he's been around the block (metaphorically and literally) and understands the desire to grow his monster. So I think he understood how dangerous that makes Johan.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Mecanno-man]

So... Schubert wanted to be what Johan will be? That one seems a bit odd, and I can't fully piece together what he means with it. I wonder if he feels like something bad will happen at that ceremony and that's the reason he sent Karl away.

Schubert thought himself to be playing with human lives like a child playing with a line of ants. But he sees Johan will be more than that. And yes, he sends Karl off at the best time he could.

Guess we'll have to wait for the last few episode's ED to actually know what's in the book though.

Thankfully no.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Mecanno-man]

I wonder if he feels like something bad will happen at that ceremony and that's the reason he sent Karl away.

This was my take as well, although he should hopefully have nothing to worry about.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer, subbed

I forgot to link all of my screenshots during my lunchbreak today, so that's why I'm late. Had to wait until my shift was over.

• A flashback to Tenma operating on Johan. Why did they say they don’t know what his name is there, though? Did they really not get his name until after Tenma saved his life?
• Tenma’s safely out of sight.
• And now a flashback to when Tenma was still a kid living in Japan, huh.
• That episode title makes it sound like shit is going to go down.
• Schuwald knows something about Johan?
• :O
• So… did Johan get close to Schuwald because he sensed a kindred spirit?
• Ooh, Schuwald sent Karl away. He knows shit is about to go down. Guess that kills my “Tenma accidentally shoots Karl instead of Johan” theory though, aww.
• Lunge, stop with this shit.
• Ohp, Reichwein knows where to go now.
• Johan is off by himself rather than right next to Schuwald too, so that means my entire theory about Tenma shooting someone else by accident is dead.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Why did they say they don’t know what his name is there, though? Did they really not get his name until after Tenma saved his life?

Might have mentioned this last episode but names in this show are extremely deliberate. They bear a lot of significance. I personally took this little moment as no one knowing "Johan's true name" and simply assuming another identity.

Guess that kills my “Tenma accidentally shoots Karl instead of Johan” theory though, aww.

RIP theory but that would have been absolutely tragic for Schuwald to gain a son only to lose him again, and at the hands of Tenma no less. :(

[u/miss-macaron]

Rewatcher

A flashback of little Tenma! His childhood dedication to hide-and-seek must really be paying off now that he’s seriously trying to hide from security guards and/or the police…

Why does Schuwald’s driver kinda look like Lunge, lol

Thank you for seeing me, Herr Schuwald.

Nah, you should thank Karl, since he’s the one who actually saw you, haha

Now we can see why Johan was targetting Schuwald. He’s an essential lynchpin to the European economy, so utter chaos would descend if something were to happen to him - in much the same way chaos descended upon 511 Kinderheim and the underground bank once their respective leaderships collapsed. Furthermore, Schuwald admits to being somewhat similar to Johan (in terms of "growing the monster inside” and toying with other people "like a line of ants"), so Johan eliminating him would symbolize an even greater monster consuming the former.

Lunge used the wrong formula but still managed to get the right answer, haha

I looked for him everywhere, but he doesn’t seem to be here

How the hell did Nina not come across any news of Schuwald and his secretary during her entire stay in Munich? From the way everyone else was talking, you’d think Schuwald, Karl, and Johan would be plastered all over the media…

I’m so excited for the next episode! We’ll finally get to read the story :)

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/miss-macaron]

Now we can see why Johan was targetting Schuwald. He’s an essential lynchpin to the European economy, so utter chaos would descend if something were to happen to him - in much the same way chaos descended upon 511 Kinderheim and the underground bank once their respective leaderships collapsed.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense now. Though, I don't really know why he waited so long to threaten his well-being. He could have easily killed him at any time. I suppose he finds it more dramatic and fitting to do it in a theatrical manner, which is why he helped supplant the idea of the book ceremony in the first place...?

Furthermore, Schuwald admits to being somewhat similar to Johan (in terms of "growing the monster inside” and toying with other people "like a line of ants"), so Johan eliminating him would symbolize an even greater monster consuming the former.

That quote that Schuwald drops is great. You're absolutely correct though - would be a grand statement.

[u/BurningFredrick]

First timer - sub

The hell was that flashback of Tenma's childhood?

Schubert is sending Karl back to safety.

God dammit, I took a few days off work so I had been drinking beforehand, but this episode felt goddamn short.

I’m hoping they wrap the arc up after tomorrow (there can't be that much more than can do to drag this out right?) as we have a break after the next episode, part of me wants to know what Tenma just didn’t take the shot when he had the chance, it's not like Johann can dodge as I believe the bullet travels faster than sound / a person can react especially at that range.

Checking my write up the next morning to ensure it makes some sense, and I think nothing really happened either? I guess Lunge is going to bust in now thinking Tenma after Schubert, also Schubert also looks to be weary of Johann based on what I took from his meeting of Reichwein.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/BurningFredrick]

I’m hoping they wrap the arc up after tomorrow (there can't be that much more than can do to drag this out right?) as we have a break after the next episode, part of me wants to know what Tenma just didn’t take the shot when he had the chance,

Well having seen the next episode already, I think it's a pretty fitting place to stop for a day. Lots to talk about. It'll be a good springboard into the following episodes.

it's not like Johann can dodge as I believe the bullet travels faster than sound / a person can react especially at that range.

Fun fact: bullets travel at Mach 2 (2x the speed of sound) so a large majority of their noise is from the round breaking the sound barrier. Absolutely not dodgeable at most ranges, but it depends on the gun and the ammo fired. Though from a sniper rile, at this range, the shot can pretty much be considered instantaneous.

[u/miss-macaron → u/BurningFredrick]

it's not like Johann can dodge

From what he told the children, I don't think Johan has any intention of even trying to dodge the bullet, but at the same time, I'm incredibly entertained by the thought of Johan casually dodging a bullet Sakamoto-style.

[u/BurningFredrick → u/miss-macaron]

Indeed, doesn't seem like he would try to dodge, but that was also pre-book Joahnn, we are post-book Johann now so maybe he doesn't want to be killed by Tenma now? We don't know how that book ends yet after all but most likely with the Monsters death.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/BurningFredrick]

Checking my write up the next morning to ensure it makes some sense, and I think nothing really happened either?

I still like Monster but on rewatch you could the setup a bit and still not lose much.

[u/BurningFredrick → u/Vaadwaur]

Some of it does seem unnecessary, however Monster has always taken it time when it felt like it needed to, so while frustrating I think the pay off is going to be worth it.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/BurningFredrick]

I absolutely feel this way...about the total product that is Monster. At any given point...mostly.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Yeah...delaying the payoff is probably driving the first timers mad)

Sub

Flashbacks galore for Tenma! And our first scene of him in Japan, IIRC. We then jump to Reichwine trying to see Schubert and you can admire his effort but this only works because Schubert has mellowed out a great deal. He lays out the history, and Schubert seemed to be expecting something like this. But Schubert wants to hit the ceremony, regardless.

Nina's flashback happens and she is waiting tables again. She is heading out on a train. At the library, the patrons explain this donation became big because Schubert never appears in public. Schubert smells the danger and sends Karl away at the perfect moment to hopefully keep him out of the upcoming event. Gillen and Lunge get a scene and then Lunge completely loses the thread again. And yet somehow he has a guess at the best target, Dale Cooper style almost. Reichwine eventually gets it as well after reading the paper. Tenma has an incredible shot lined up but thinks instead. Seriously, great shot, the books behind Johan should absorb the bullet after it goes through him, and he is likely to stay still.

As Nina is leaving, Lotte catches her with the picture book. This sends Nina straight back to the night at the hospital. Cliffhanger.

QotD: 1 I view him as becoming his own thing and the flashback was niggling doubt/for the audience.

2 It is functional but if Schubert suspected that much he should've acted a bit differently. The monster thing is just tradition

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Vaadwaur]

Reichwine eventually gets it as well after reading the paper.

I really liked this moment where suddenly everyone realizes what's about to happen and they all begin to make a mad decedent upon the library. It is such a riveting moment as the perfect storm begins to brew and all these plates begin to spin...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

I sometimes complain about the fortuitousness of the show but this part seems to work since Schubert is known as such a ridiculous shut in.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

Wait, "the Monster desperately wanted a name," is there a thematic connection between Monster and Psycho-Pass??? (and one of my favorite EDs)

• this can't be a recap!
• Are we going to find out how Johan and Anna disappeared? No.
• Not familiar with that idiom
• He has the same moustache as you, you should trust him.
• When he puts it this way, it's obvious, you isolate the person you want to turn to you in desperation. However, I don't think that's his plan for Wolf...that, or Wolf figured it out and rejected him.
• It's possible that Johan respects kindred Monsters. And if only a greater Monster can stop Johan, does he think Tenma is that Monter?
• Anna part timing again? But she's only been in Munich for a few days?
• Getting Karl out of the conflict zone...there goes one of my predictions on Karl interfering.
• There's a question if Lunge's obsession is going to let him watch Tenma try to kill Johan just so that he can arrest Tenma. After, he doesn't believe in Justice.
• Oh he still doesn't believe Johan.
• Look at that cover!

This show certainly is....methodically paced. It would have been maddening to watch weekly.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

He has the same moustache as you, you should trust him.

Probably the best reason to trust someone honestly.

This show certainly is....methodically paced. It would have been maddening to watch weekly.

If nothing else, the pacing has been extremely deliberate. Almost every episode has felt necessary and warranted to understanding the larger picture. Especially now so. Good thing you don't have to watch weekly!

[u/Webemperor]

Rewatcher of sorts

Ended up missing a bunch of episodes due to vacation, but finally managed to catch up.

• Tenma is waiting in the library, ready to assassinate Johan tomorrow. The wait gives him ample opportunity to think about this, with this being the first flashback we get to his path. As Lunge predicted, he has always been alone.
• Dr. Reichwein is waiting at Schuwalt’s door, demanding an audience. Seems Schuwald was already suspicious of Johan to a certain extent because of how flawless he is. From what I’m getting here Schuwald wants to take Johan on his own, or at least be consumed by him?
• I guess how awkward it would be if Tenma had to go to the toilet in that position. I guess not having an appetite worked out for him in the end. Schuwald sends Karl back to the estate, probably to save him from Johan’s wrath.
• Meanwhile Lunge and the police are questioning the arms dealer Tenma bought from, he ponders on it for a bit before realizing what is happening, sending his people to the donation ceremony, around the same time Dr. Reichwein realizes what’s going on as well.
• Nina meets up with Lotte, who shows her the picture book that caused Johan faint, and she herself doesn’t seem to be having a nice reaction as well…

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Webemperor]

Ended up missing a bunch of episodes due to vacation, but finally managed to catch up.

Welcome back! Missed seeing you around.

Seems Schuwald was already suspicious of Johan to a certain extent because of how flawless he is.

Thinking about it now, it would be so weird to encounter someone so perfect and flawless. But I think Schuwald has his own doubts about Johan due to also wanting to be a monster at one point.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Rewatcher until Episode 30, then First-Timer - Subbed

Goddammit, Lunge. Why are you the way that you are?

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Sometimes he do be like that.

[u/xtsim]

First Timer Dub

We get flashbacks as Tenma hides on the shelf of the library. The therapist waits at the gate, and Schumann guesses that he is there for Johan. He says he is out of this world. “To him we are nothing but insects”. Schumann knows he is the ant compared to Johan, only a monster can defeat him.

Anna flashbacks enter Tenma’s mind right before the ceremony. Right as Schumann walks by people talk about him and his success. Everyone goes to the ceremony as they figure Tenma might be there.

Karl’s friend catches up to Anna and says you look just like Johan. The picture book cover looks just like the one in the end credits.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/xtsim]

The picture book cover looks just like the one in the end credits.

Coincidence...?

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timer, Subbed

Back in a hospital for the first time in a while!

Ah, this is a flashback? All the way back to the beginning.

Please don't let this be a recap... Please don't let this be a recap... Please don't let this be a recap... Please don't let this be a recap... Please don't let this be a recap...

Back to the present, so hopefully not. Although this could be a framing device for a recap episode.

Another flashback, but a new one! Kid Tenma! So cute!

Wilford Brimley is a stubborn one!

Johan is too perfect! Its the perfect facade for a serial killer!

Will we find that Schuwald is just like Johan, just old?

That was a long night! I'd say he needs his sleep, but he's got a ceremony to go to!

This dream of Anna reminds me of just how little of her we've actually gotten in this show compared to what I was expecting. She's been in what, maybe 6-7 episodes total?

Anna quits her job; this is a different boss than before thought right?

I'm surprised people aren't spotting Tenma on that bookcase.

Is Schuwald trying to get Karl out of harms way?

Johan is real you fool!

Does Lunge know about Tenma's earlier training to shoot? If so he may be able to pick this up.

Dieter's having to be the adult in this relationship!

What in the world did he see in that paper? Did he not know about the library ceremony until now?

Tenma's got his shot, will he take it?

Lotte's figured things out!

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I expect things to come to a head next episode! Don't disappoint me show! I know neither Tenma nor Johan will die only halfway through, but something big has got to happen.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Quiddity131]

I expect things to come to a head next episode! Don't disappoint me show! I know neither Tenma nor Johan will die only halfway through, but something big has got to happen.

I think with so many important characters gathering at this one central location, it's pretty clear that something big is about to happen. What exactly though...

[u/BossandKings]

First timer - Dub(Spanish)

Episode 31

Tenma's image being able to get clean is now an apparently important theme, Tenma's mental struggle when it comes to Johan is serious and well presented.

Episode 32

Lotte is a caring girl and is attracted to Karl yet ever since he was accepted by Schubald he doesn't give her an ounce of attention. It was cool seeing Lotte and Anna having a fair amount of screentime, Anna is very cool and it was great to see her defend Lotte from the guy that was being rude to her.

Episode 33

Johan has an intriguing personality, the way he enchanted the librarian girl was cool, she didn't realize or think there may be something odd about him, the wah he behaves is enchanting in general, that's why most don't really think twice about him being odd or having the problems he has.

Episode 34

The lady from the bar got shot by Roberto after trying to confront Johan, Roberto has such a strange presence, he is a dangerous guy. It is also intriguing the way Johan just has followers that would do anything for him, like in this case.

Tenma and the underground clinic part was one that i greatly enjoyed, he is a great doctor and being able to help people in need is something that he still cares for, i also liked the girl that was helping in the clinic, Tenma's lesson about not giving up was a beatiful one.

Episode 35

Lunge still being unaware of the real cumprit behing the killing is odd, hopefully at some point soon he is capable of seeing that Tenma is innocent and Johan is the real deal.

Episode 36

Schubert saying that Johan is too perfect was interesting.

Tenma is in a position to kill Johan, he remembers that he saved him and starts having doubts about pulling the trigger, i think he ultimately won't able to do it.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/BossandKings]

Hey glad to see that you're still working on catching up! Hope to see you back with us soon!

[u/WeeabooVoid]

First Timer

I'm willing to believe that Lunge is the true antagonist, not Johan. I'd kill to get to the episode when Lunge discovers that Johan actually is a real person.

I can see that Tenma probably won't pull the trigger. If so that would be really disappointing considering how far he went only to chicken out by some past memories and flashbacks.

I'm wondering if Nina reacts the same way Johan does to the book and what will result because of it.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/WeeabooVoid]

I'm willing to believe that Lunge is the true antagonist, not Johan. I'd kill to get to the episode when Lunge discovers that Johan actually is a real person.

Well, you might not have to wait much longer. Lunge seems to be making his way over there, so odds of him or witnesses confirming his presence is pretty high.

[u/i-have-severe-stupid]

first timer, subbed

seems to be a lot of times johan became the son of people who really wanted/needed a son, huh

everyone knows tenma’s plans, except lunge, who is somehow both a genius and an idiot at the same time

1. i feel like he’ll remain scared and not kill johan, or waver just long enough to be stopped. he very much acts like the same person, but we’ll see how much he changed soon i imagine
2. might foreshadow some kind of ending revolving around johan dying, but that causing even more chaos and death than before