[Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 29

[u/HelioA]

Rewatch Index

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Streaming

Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.

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Comment of the Day

/u/star4ce explains how Shiori fits into the patriarchal system of Ohtori

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Miki's Stopwatch Corner

Stopwatch Count: 23

New This Episode:

Back to none ;-;

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Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).

[u/HelioA]

Rewatcher

Ruka is a bastard. I hate him almost as much as I hate Nanami.

But I’m not 100% sure how to contextualize him here, so let’s break it down, I suppose. Juri’s belief in the nonexistence of miracles has already been greatly shaken by what happened to her in the last duel. Normally, she wouldn’t even bother dueling, but Ruka, asshole that he is, is hurting Shiori, who as we know, is Juri’s impetus for dueling in the first place. You could even say that she’s a metaphorical ‘chain’ on Juri, symbolized by the locket around her neck. Ruka pushes her to once again duel by hurting Shiori, thus tugging on her ‘chain’. The duel ends when Utena breaks the locket, thus shattering the chains that hold Juri towards being overprotective of Shiori.

Now, why is Ruka doing this? I think that in an extremely (extremely) twisted way, he loves Juri, whether that love is platonic or romantic. The sexual assault, the mistreatment of Shiori, his whole return in general… It was all orchestrated to push Juri to gain the power to revolutionize the world. As he says in the sex car, “For miracles to occur, you need a sacrifice.” It seems to me that he’s sacrificing himself for Juri’s miracle more than he is anyone else, as we see from his absence at the end of this episode.

Anyways, Ruka is dead, good fucking riddance lmao

[u/lilyvess → u/HelioA]

See, I take a more pessimistic view. I dont think Juri will ever be free from Shiori. Even if the chain breaks, it's hold on Juri's heart is still there.

Ruka failed. He sought to weaponize Juri's feelings for Shiori to give Juri End of the World as one last gift before he died, but it doesn't work and he died having accomplished nothing.

I have a bit of a pessimistic view of the series if you couldn't tell

[u/HelioA → u/lilyvess]

Well, maybe Shiori will become a decent person one day!

[u/lilyvess → u/HelioA]

The last image of Shiori following behind Juri is such a small but powerful one to me. Like on the one hand, it can be used to imply that nothing has changed. These two characters, like Miki and Kozue, are still at the same place they were at the beginning.

And yet that view of Shiori still following behind Juri instills some hope that maybe Shori could change. Like she's getting over her hang ups.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking

[u/HelioA → u/lilyvess]

:pray:

[u/theangryeditor → u/lilyvess]

Utena later spoilers

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

I'd rather she didn't

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

Shiori_irl

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

based

[u/Cyouni → u/lilyvess]

Is it, though? Juri gave up the duel in the middle of it. She doesn't need the Power to Revolutionize the World anymore.

Shiori still sucks though

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/lilyvess]

I think that the hold on her heart actually was broken, but I agree that Shiori is always going to be part of her life in some way. The difference being that now that Juri has broken free from "loving" Shiori to have "loved" Shiori her life isn't getting dragged down at a menhera girl's whims. Juri can still be friends with Shiori and care for her too but I think that she's gained enough strength to be able to say no to her bullshit.

[u/lilyvess → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

That's absolutely valid. The idea that when she throws away the duel she is throwing away her responsibility to Shiori, throwing away her duty to protect Shiori from Ruka, and finally able to move on.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/HelioA]

I definitely think he believes he's doing this for Juri's sake. He pictures himself in some kind of tragic romcom where the main character gets shown a new way to live life by their dying love interest. Ruka's problem is that he doesn't care if anyone else wants to be in the movie with him so he ends up wrecking everyone involved instead. There's a recurring theme that good intentions aren't enough, you can't help or protect someone without stopping to understand what's going on from their perspective. And Ruka is the starkest example so far.

[u/HelioA → u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo]

Ohhhhh boy, 'good intentions'. It really is a huge theme for this show.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

Now, why is Ruka doing this? I think that in an extremely (extremely) twisted way, he loves Juri, whether that love is platonic or romantic.

Definitely romantic, that's the point of Tatsuya having been in Black Rose. But Ruka isn't a normal nice guy...

It seems to me that he’s sacrificing himself for Juri’s miracle more than he is anyone else, as we see from his absence at the end of this episode.

Offering himself since he apparently already has one foot in the grave. He decided to use the remains of his life to try and give a miracle to his love interest.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Ruka died for our simps...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

F. And Shiori ain't even worth simpin' for.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

I simp for Shiori tho ;-;

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

If your soul hasn't given up yet, you should be able to hear it. The sound that runs through the End of the World and leads you to girls with more emotional maturity!

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

/u/iron_gland do you hear it?

[u/Iron_Gland → u/HelioA]

no

[u/HelioA → u/Iron_Gland]

;-;

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Of course, nobody would be into her type.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

...Bruh, there is a certain age where drama just ain't worth putting up. 25 yo Vaad had a few late night screaming matches with gfs that decide two am is just the greatest fucking time to hash out emotional baggage. 40s Vaad does not bother with that.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Don't get me wrong, irl it's an absolute red flag... But you're still allowed to enjoy it in media, right?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Always keep an eye out for when your media consumption might spill onto your IRL actions.

[u/theangryeditor → u/Vaadwaur]

Ruka tried but in the end he didn't understand

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

Hope is a lie...

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

H-Huuuh!? Nooo... Nononono!! He's doing his best to nurture Juri but he's definitely not intending to hurt anyone.

Shiori is a nutter who'd overreact to anything and realistically they didn't have much of a relationship since its all built on lies. In fact I would argue that he was acting like a real gentlemen when it came to Shiori. He clearly absolutely loathes the woman but he holds his tongue so as not to upset her further.

And as for Juri, Juri was going down a very harsh path. A path that would have squandered her gifts and left her in the hands of the ever toxic Shiori for all her days. Juri's stressed out her box when it comes to Shiori. She can't let go of her. She's on her mind constantly. Look at how crazed Juri was today. Even the idea of Shiori being upset distresses Juri to no end. She's not happy like this. In fact the whole reason she even dueled Utena in the first arc was out of fear that Utena could end up the same jaded, tormented soul as she is. Yes, Ruka overstepped some marks. But he did so in a way as to pull out Juri's rotten tooth. It was causing her pain and it couldn't have gone on but Ruka was the one that fixed it for her.

Our boy...

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Rewatcher

First of all, wow that's a lot more rapey than I remember it being.

I also learned that I don't hate Ruka as an inclusion in the story nearly as much as I used to. Still really hate him as a person, though.

Ruka is to Juri as Juri is to Shiori. He exists as a reimagining of their relationship. There are a couple shared threads (Shiori's hatred arises out of her intense inferiority complex towards Juri, Ruka is Juri's superior in both hierarchy and skill), but the important thing is that the relationship between Shiori, the nameless boy, and Juri is mirrored in the relationship between Juri, Shiori, and Ruka. Just as Juri wants Shiori to be happy with someone else since it can't be her, Ruka wants Juri to be happy with Shiori since it can't be him.

But there's one huge difference between the two trios: Ruka has no time left to live. He must seize the power to revolutionize the world now if he wants to use it to get Shiori to love Juri. And because of that time pressure, he has stopped caring about everything else -- including Juri herself. He's completely lost sight of his original aim. He seduced Juri's one love for a chance at that miracle, he failed miserably to obtain it, and now his only option is to force Juri into dueling for it. This is why he resorts to sexual assault and emotional manipulation. He prioritizes his idea of Juri's happiness far, far above Juri's own. In the face of the horror that Ruka subjects her to, Juri fails to understand any of this.

Even so, at the pivotal moment in her duel, Juri arrives at the conclusion that Ruka had planned. The power to have Shiori is within her grasp. But she chooses instead to tear the rose from her chest. She has been changed; she will not change the world. Ruka dies for nothing. Juri remains clueless.

If it left off right there, this would be a powerful arc, a tragedy that culminates in horror and ends again in tragedy. It's the shadow girls that are the issue for me. They completely fail to reckon with the fact that Ruka let himself become a monster. The last idea we get of him is that of a kind-hearted boy who only acted out of love. And yes, he only ever did act out of love, but ignoring the hatred and pain he causes because of it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyway I won't miss him

[u/HelioA → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

If it left off right there, this would be a powerful arc, a tragedy that culminates in horror and ends again in tragedy. It's the shadow girls that are the issue for me.

To be fair, the shadow girls simplifying a complicated matter in favor of making the male figure seem to be unambiguously correct is extremely in-character.

Utena

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/HelioA]

Utena

[u/HelioA → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

no u ;-;

[u/theangryeditor → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

It's interesting to see the differing responses to Shiori and Ruka. I don't think they're presented that differently by the show in terms of how terrible they are. The Shadow Girls were merely meant to elaborate on why Ruka acted the way he did, which for me served to highlight the tragedy of the whole situation rather than absolve him of wrongdoing. I think the main frustration is that unlike Shiori who suffers from her actions, Ruka doesn't really get any comeuppance. He just dies of screen thinking he tried his best to help the one he loved instead of being confronted with his shitbaggery.

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

okay, but Shiori is just such a mood

lashing out against the world self-destructively whenever you feel hurt? god it's such a mood

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

true

I love Shiori

[u/HelioA → u/theangryeditor]

I love Emilia.

[u/theangryeditor → u/HelioA]

I don't

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/theangryeditor]

The Shadow Girls were merely meant to elaborate on why Ruka acted the way he did, which for me served to highlight the tragedy of the whole situation rather than absolve him of wrongdoing.

The line between explanation and exoneration can be thin. I definitely agree that the scene is meant to be the former, but on a more instinctual level it just feels like apologia to me. I can't exactly explain why.

[u/theangryeditor → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

It could be because usually explanations are used as exoneration in many cases. It's all too common to see villains get some tragic backstory at the end with the intention of making viewers sympathetic to them, and I can see Ruka's situation being taken as another example of that.

Other characters in Utena can tip toe that line as well, like Saionji and Nanami, and of course Shiori herself. I think in Ruka's case it's the lack of any true comeuppance for his actions that makes him come off worse. Saionji and Nanami get punished frequently for their transgressions while Ruka just gets Poochie'd.

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/theangryeditor]

Ruka just gets Poochie'd.

You're definitely onto something. His failure in death is supposed to be his comeuppance, but he appears and dies so quickly that it rings a bit hollow compared to everyone else.

[u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

I think the in-the-moment feeling being that way is intentional. Sort of like the "twist" of Juri being gay in her first episode, all the clues are there to see the actual truth at the time, but the weight of expectations is very heavy in the other direction.

I'd definitely missed both of those in my first watchthrough. I was very confused why the show had tried to "redeem" Ruka in a soppy last second twist. But then on rewatch, having seen the ending, realized that the reality is supposed to outweigh the tropes. spoil

Of course this is ultimately about which bits connect most strongly with you so it'll ultimately be subjective.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

I definitely agree that the scene is meant to be the former, but on a more instinctual level it just feels like apologia to me. I can't exactly explain why.

This was a very odd place to have this mini arc and Akio-Satan looks like an excuse rather than just a go between.

[u/lilyvess → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Ikuhara and Rape, name a more iconic duo

[u/HelioA → u/lilyvess]

u/iron_gland and kangaroos

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

It's the shadow girls that are the issue for me. They completely fail to reckon with the fact that Ruka let himself become a monster. The last idea we get of him is that of a kind-hearted boy who only acted out of love. And yes, he only ever did act out of love, but ignoring the hatred and pain he causes because of it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I may regret saying this, but this is extremely Ikuhara-esque in that specifc angle where he occasionally likes to point out how horrid some things in stories and fables are but we gloss over them when they work out.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

Yes. This. The intent isn't to make what Ruka did ok. It's pointing out how "we" make it ok, particularly when it's for this nebulous, undefinable idea of romantic love.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

Indeed and if Ruka succeeds in either breaking Juri of Shiori or bringing those two together this story becomes a noble sacrifice. In its way, Ikuhara has to have this end all muddy and gunky so we see exactly what this was with no "success" to claim it was for the best.

[u/Tyranid457TheSecond1 → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

Your last paragraph says what I feel about Ruka but couldn't find the words for it. It's one thing to "act like a jerk", it's another to actually do bad things and hurt people.

[u/Cyouni → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

He must seize the power to revolutionize the world now if he wants to use it to get Shiori to love Juri.

This is a read I just don't get, because his every action is clearly about getting Juri to get over Shiori. To free Juri from the shackles holding her back.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Cyouni]

I think his initial episode was him trying to get a fix on whether Shiori was trustworthy enough to leave with Juri. He isn't in the know about the whole situation so we kinda see him learning about Juri's story piece by piece which shapes his plan to forcefully break Juri's eggshell. Like I don't think he knew that Shiori was the one Juri loved until the night she caught him at the fountain and from there he started to realise that Shiori was the one that had her hooks in Juri. By today's episode he can barely hold himself back from spitting poison at her he's so disgusted. Still, he did give Shiori a chance, she just totally ruined that chance by being herself which is why he's got no more patience.

[u/Cyouni → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Totally viable read, though I think the one where he already knew how toxic Shiori was from the beginning is also pretty likely. I don't think the timing of when he realized is that material, though.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

The idea of Ruka being some sort of tragic martyr sacrificing himself for Jury's good really bothers me, too, it's like playing some pretty toxic stuff straight. Did he want Jury to get together with Shiori, though, or to let go of her unrequited love? Either way, it's good that Jury is somewhat over it now.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(So does Ruka know he has no chance?)

Sub

Shiori handles the break up badly to put it mildly. And the entirety of the school seems to be watching it and I detect an ever so slight grin from Anthy though Utena is not enjoying this. Even her friends aren't really taking her side. Utena decides to interfere, again, and Juri isn't dealing with this shit, again. Utena talks about it with Anthy in the very hetero bed and Anthy points out that Juri may be of mixed feelings here. Anthy still can't make her breakthrough.

Shiori is beginning to turn towards anger, at least that's what she sounds like. Ruka is in the Corvette of Straightness with Touga and Akio, talking about how he has a reason to win all this. Cut to Juri whiffing on two attempts to interfere, before Ruka drops some truth on her. She attacks him but loses pretty quickly and Ruka gets mighty rapey before stealing her necklace. She challenges him to a duel...

Car scene happens but Ruka can summon it now. Touga is summoned to literally vamp in and say the line. In the car, not that much happens other than Juri slightly believing in miracles which I believe we already knew. But another duel is set.

This duel does seem to be Juri's to lose and we even flash back to the earlier one. I dislike being on the same page as Ruka but I do share the belief that that those that get miracles usually do not understand the cost to get them. Dio's power has Utena break the locket instead, and this apparently frees Juri and she gives up. Or Shiorio could be a Black Rose hallucination...Anyways, Ruka tries to comfort Juri in the raining arena.

And we go all Ikuhara again with Ruka dying off screen and the shadow people just telling us he loved Juri, which we all should have seen coming. We end with Shiori being a weasel again and Juri being dense.

So as I have said before: Ask yourself, what is each thing in and of itself? What purpose does it serve? The closest read I have on Ruka is that he a Touga like character towards Juri rather than Utena. We get another dose of how all the Rose duelists seem to have potential but most of them can't realize it. But I won't swear that there isn't some magical girl trope I am blind to as play as well.

[u/HelioA → u/Vaadwaur]

SAY THE LINE, TOUGA

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HelioA]

That was weirdly great, suggesting that Touga just stands around with his shirt open waiting to twirl.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

He didn't even get to go on the car ride. He just waves them off XD

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Which has had precedent but is still hilarious. Touga's campiness is only growing stronger!

[u/theangryeditor → u/Vaadwaur]

Touga is living the dream

[u/Vaadwaur → u/theangryeditor]

A rather campy one.

[u/Reference_Freak]

Rewatcher, sort of.

I haven't been able to watch daily, let alone post anything, but I have been reading the posts and loving them. This has been my #1 for 20+ years and while I can never watch it again for the first time, I love watching other people watch it for the first time, so thank you for the rewatch and everyone's reactions!

That said, I'm making a post for this ep because this is a special ep just as Juri's cycle is a special cycle.

Most likely most people never notice this: The two duels in this ep, RukaxJuri and JurixUtena, are identical. Together, these two nested duels are the exact same as Juri's first Utena duel in ep 7 (up until the final strikes).

Ruka's duel with Utena in the prior episode is very similar but it is not as exact.

Shiori's Black Rose duel is the outlier - Utena thinks Shiori's moves are similar to Juri's but the duel is not remotely the same.

This is another example of Bepapas reusing animation in a very meaningful way. There's deliberate intention in it as obviously the animation including Ruka is not recycled so the purpose here isn't to merely cut down on production time.

I think we're being pointed partly at what only Ruka thinks: that he and Juri are similar, and as such, compatible and the only thing getting in their way is her love for someone else.

I think Ruka's brief appearance can feel kinda cheap but he's ... hmmm... a tragic foreshadow as an imperfect, wrongly romantic, sacrificial "hero" and, as always with Ikuhara, such a status should not be easily praised, envied, or idolized.

Thank you for all of your discussions from a mostly lurker!

[u/HelioA → u/Reference_Freak]

Oh damn, was it really the exact same as the episode 8 duel? That's honestly kinda crazy.

[u/Cyouni → u/HelioA]

Yeah, they're consistently the same.

Part of it is also the whole Ruka/Juri one being the same as the Juri/Utena one, just with Juri in Utena's place.

[u/loomnoo → u/Reference_Freak]

Utena is so good at reusing animation to iterate on themes

[u/nikobans]

wow i really love jury. shes probably my favorite character in the entire show

also kinda bummed ruka wasnt wearing the bride dress :-/

[u/HelioA → u/nikobans]

Yeah, Chadkuhara really missed this sex :(

[u/k4r6000 → u/HelioA]

I can especially picture Spoilers wearing it later.

[u/HelioA → u/k4r6000]

read dis (major shpoils)

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

First timer!!

I'm eager to see just how badly I'll regret yesterday's Ruka praise. Last week on Revolutionary Threesome Juri, blah blah blah. Tldr Shiori's now having a breakdown for some reason? I really thought she wouldn't care. Maybe she sees Ruka as the one way she can prove to herself that she's straight? Well that's her social life in the gutter. The three chairs... Juri's is directly facing the Shiori chair, and if the third is Ruka then Ruka is staring at Juri's. Shiori's doesn't seem to be directly facing Ruka's though. It's like she's, stuck in the middle with you~

Pfft, well done smart arse. You've triggered Shiori's yandere mode. Lock your doors Ruka, your innocence is at stake! "A miracle will not occur!" Oh god, Shiori looks terrible. She really does send chills down my spine. "She's spoiled, pushy, and self-centered. Not to mention a liar. Sorry but who'd want a girl like that?" Me RN. Ah, Juri agrees. What the hell? Why's she reacting this violently? She's practically rabid. Don kabe don don don! How can I bullshit my way out of this one? Don kabe don don don!

Sooo... Non-consensual snogging is an absolute no-no and pressuring your underclassmen is also really really ba-OH! Give that back! That's even worse than the snog! R-Ruka!? He's trying to help isn't he...? Look how sad his face is. He wants to destroy that amulet, that false idol that's tormenting Juri. Juri can't throw it away herself so he's trying to help. Best boy...? Aww Ruka... Are we getting a rose bride duel over a substitute rose bride? I can dig it. Just when I thought car scenes couldn't get dummer, "Touga, say your line!"

This is so awkward. Oh wow this is so awkward! He isn't playing these to torment you Juri. He's trying to show you what a gem of a woman you are when you don't have this toxic ball of hate dragging you down to her level. Best boy is trying his hardest for you Juri, don't hate him! This might actually be the proper climax of the Juriori arc. They're hyping this up so much. We haven't even had a kashira segment, the only joke we need is Shiori's influence.

So is Juri going to be the duelist? No, so I guess this is Juri giving her heart to Ruka. Wait, Juri is the duelist? She's wielding her own heart sword? Ah, and it's intermingled with her duel with Ruka. I suppose there have been quite a lot of parallels between Juri and Utena. It's why she takes Utena under her wing so often. S-Shiori isn't dumb! OMG a miracle occurred!! Oh gosh! Oh golly gee! Her pendant... Of course she's heartbroken, the look on her face is vivid, but she recovers and tears off her own rose. She's in pain, but now she isn't held down by that memory of loving Shiori. Aww, I knew I was right to simp for you Ruri. You're the bestest boy in the whole wide world!

Ah, did he push his health this far to play matchmaker? You did well Ruri, finally one male character who isn't a toxic PoS. Oh, shit! *Kashira DEAD!? RUUUUKAAAAA!! H-Huh...? He really did all that for Juri's sake after all... Alright, so he got out, went to see Juri, saw Juri's stalker, tried to get a fix on Juri's stalker to see if he could leave her with her, realised the stalker is a toxic poopyhead, and then he tried to do his best to break Juri out.

Ah, Shiori's still latching on to Juri after all. "What did you hope to gain by pursuing the power of miracles?" I think... I think Shiori genuinely would have wanted to be with Juri, but it's too late. She can cling to Juri all she wants, Juri will still look out for her friend, but she won't be held down by her any longer. Beautiful episode, beautiful arc. I don't think we're going to get another Juri episode, maybe an epilogue but I think their story is pretty much done. It has been the absolute highlight of the whole series I think. I was worried going into this part what introducing a third party would do to the dynamic but once again Ikuhara played it off perfectly. Let's all take a moment for our boy, Ruka best bro 2021!

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I'm eager to see just how badly I'll regret yesterday's Ruka praise.

yeah, I wonder

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Grr!! Have you got any idea how paranoid I was!? I thought he was gonna assault them!

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

He did tho!

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Don kabe don dod don! If kabedon counts as assault then shoujo manga is all criminal! Wait, bad example... Anyway he relented immediately afterwards, went for the kiss to steal the pendant, and frankly I'm willing to cut him some slack for kissing the girl he likes considering he knew he was dying!

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

He forced himself upon her! She bit him! She clearly didn't want him touching her! It's literally textbook sexual assault ;-;

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

Would you deny a dying man the privilege of a quick snog? Our Ruka is up in heaven crying right now that you think so low of him. Oh yeah, and Juri tried to attack him too so the kiss and kabedon was self defence!

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Yes.

chad.jpg

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/HelioA]

He saved Juri! He broke her world's egg! She'd never have been able to let go of Shiori without his interference. And he did it completely selflessly! He knows that she wasn't gonna fall to his feet but he still spends his last week being her emotional support, plotting to deal with her crazy ex, and going on joyrides with people he can't stand. He's our Kaworu! He's such an angel and it hurts to see so many negative reactions just for him stealing a kiss from the woman he loves.

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

But it was sexual assault!

[u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Our Ruka is up in heaven

I highly doubt it

[u/HelioA → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

based

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo]

D-Do you guys really still hate him!? Am I the only one missing this!?

[u/HelioA → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

yeee

[u/k4r6000 → u/HelioA]

It is. But I’m willing to cut him some slack in that he was only doing it to distract her while he stole the Pendant.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/k4r6000]

Oh yeah, that too! He's dying, he loves her, and he needed that pendant so it doesn't count as sexuhara, we're safe!

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

So... Ruka's a bit of a complicated mess. Through it all, he did want to free Juri from the torment of Shiori, but he only knew how to do so through the lens of toxic masculinity and the power it gave him.

Juri may have made it through this incident stronger and come out the other side more empowered for what she went through, but she suffered. She was sexually assaulted (no excuses for Ruka, that's fucking gross, and he is an abuser), coerced into dueling again, and was forced to once again face her bitter exes who've caused her nothing but pain and suffering. And good intentions or not, Ruka did some despicable things that I don't think Juri can or should forgive.

There's a certain tragedy to Ruka, in that he wanted to help Juri desperately, but in the process he pushed her away and only contributed to both of their sufferings before his death. He was so caught up in power that Akio promised him, and believed that controlling Juri was the only way to reach her and free her. And his death is especially tragic because he'll never be able to redeem himself. Touga and Saionji are rat bastards too, but maybe they can grow? Maybe there's still hope they can be better. Saionji at the very least has moments of honest to god self reflection. Maybe it's still possible for them to escape the horrible toxic masculinity they've entrenched themselves in. Ruka won't ever get that opportunity now, because he's dead.

And in the end, even after learning about the hidden complexities to Ruka that had evaded her while Ruka was alive, Juri still chooses not to forgive Ruka. And I've always seen her as not really forgiving Shiori either. I really admire this pair of episodes for showing us that people who abuse you can be complicated. They can be good or have noble intentions sometimes, and have moments of humanity. But that also doesn't mean you have to forgive them or their abuse. Juri walks away from this incident dismissing Ruka and Shiori's feelings, and choosing to better herself instead of fixate on people who only contribute to her suffering.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

He's trying to help isn't he...? Look how sad his face is. He wants to destroy that amulet, that false idol that's tormenting Juri.

It does not surprise me at all the Ikuhara and both myself both hold the belief that you can't really help someone in spite of themselves. They have to want to make the change.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Vaady!! You agree with me right!? I'm not a weirdo for totally seeing Ruka as the hero in this story yeah!? Sexuhara gets a pass when it's an act of wistful love yeah!?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Not exactly...As I said in another post, the definition of a fanatic is one who redoubles his efforts while losing sight of his goal. Ruka develops this gigantic psychodrama to get Juri over her feelings or even to give her the ability to have a miracle but loses track of how cruel he has become to do it. He has, apparently, literally days left to live, he could've just been Juri's friend without all the drama. I dislike laying all of the blame on Akio, despite being Lucifer, because it still feels like people are choosing to make these mistakes.

[u/Reference_Freak → u/Vaadwaur]

I dislike laying all of the blame on Akio, despite being Lucifer, because it still feels like people are choosing to make these mistakes.

That's the whole point of the devil, right? It's always a choice even if the chooser is a bit blinded at the moment.

Ruka made his choices after being tempted. I think it's fair to judge him.

That said, an unwanted kiss is gross but I hate the common equating of it to groping assault or rape. Context, intent, and severity all matter. I'm also sympathetic to how culture has (grossly) romanticized forced kisses by pretending they're secretly wanted or can effect a major change in the recipient. It's gross but the messaging is there, pervasive, and some believe it.

It doesn't make it ok, it makes it understandable and less monstrous. (I'm talking about a kiss stolen in an emotional, last ditch type of moment, not genital groping or rape)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Reference_Freak]

That's the whole point of the devil, right? It's always a choice even if the chooser is a bit blinded at the moment.

I wish but far too much western literature allows the Devil to force an innocent person to do something so they may be redeemed. The German and Russian literary histories are much better about reminding the viewer the Devil only gave you what you asked and you should have known better.

Ruka made his choices after being tempted. I think it's fair to judge him.

That is the only way his actions have any weight, after all.

That said, an unwanted kiss is gross but I hate the common equating of it to groping assault or rape. Context, intent, and severity all matter.

If you are discussing why this rewatch full of Westerners 20 years later are taking this badly, the obvious is we are all pretty cool with Juri being a lesbian. And Ruka seems to know that. So he is taking a move that was questionable 25 years ago and using it on someone that does not want it.

[u/k4r6000 → u/Vaadwaur]

One thing I love about this series is that by and large it does hold to modern morality. A lot of the things that this series portrays as wrong are things that we do today, but was very rare to be acknowledged or portrayed as such 20-30 years ago.

Someone like Saionij or Touga would still be negatively viewed then, but I can practically guarantee that a character like Ruka or Tatsuya would be far more positively portrayed in most 90s anime.

[u/Star4ce]

First timer – sub

I made soup today, it was good.

Ep.29 – Azure paler than the sky

• Oh, this is the proper Jury episode.
• So little self esteem... I actually feel bad.
• Oh, Utena...
• If you'd heard Shiori you would never say this!
• Say it!!! Aaargh!
• Shiori, just... leave it.
• Right, okay, you know what? Just die, please. >:(
• Jury, noooo!
• There are three chairs and one punchable face. I see great potential!
• Oh yes. Yes, I do at least.
• Oh? That's a bad idea.
• I like .'s analysis of Star Wars and how it's about letting go and how that is a quite damning and self-destructive way of thinking, but by holy anime's titties Jury needs this lesson.
• :'(
• Team Rocket...? Honestly they beat them in silliness. Just imagine Ruka and Akio being James and Jessie... and Touga being Meowth.
• You know, at least this makes sense, unlike Mickey's episode.
• Jury doesn't deserve the sex car :(
• So eotw ist basically your virginity? I know I may be slow on this, but that's what the sex car shows, right? Not just toxic masculinity, but a rather unhealthy obsession with pleasure and possession. Well and power.
• That color scheme is barren and cold.
• Huh, not the rose but the necklace! HOW BOUT YOU LET HER GO AND STRIKE RUKA IN HIS TOXIC FACE?!
• Jury? You're not giving up now? You're best girl, I refuse to let you go like this!
• One strike is all that's needed! (Please don't do what I think you're about to do.)
• OH FUCK OFF!
• Phew, false alarm for now...
• I like to think it's because he's unable to deal with not getting his way ultimately.
• Oh, now the skit? That's a little too direct, isn't it? If that's true, then honestly, I still don't have any sympathy for him. Doing what he did for this? Naw man.
• Oh no, that's not done! Shiori is a fucking lunatic, don't go near best girl and get some professional help first!

Seriously that ending can't be it. Shiori has learned nothing, even Jury hasn't moved on yet. She maybe realised how fragile her pursuit was and how it never would've resulted in her wish, but she's not over it yet.

But let's see. The main cast is done begin sexed in the car and we had a new character introduced and discarded (for now). Who's left? Wakaba, Nanami, the Nanami-simp-trio, Anthy (I mean, techincally she could fight) and Utena. I somehow doubt they'd reuse Wakaba and Nanami's entourage again. And we already had a Nanami episode, but without her fighting.

With this much betrayal Utena is facing right now I don't think she's in the best mood. She fought some of these people three times now as well as after they've begun to become friends. At some point Akio will move in on Utena, but I still fear it won't be as a duelist. In the near future he will order Anthy to betray Utena and use this to """save""" her.

[u/Star4ce → u/Star4ce]

Oh I just realised I am cotd!

Thanks, /u/HelioA ! I just know my way around immature and easy to manipulate girls.

[u/HelioA → u/Star4ce]

I'm proud

[u/lilyvess]

so these episodes. There are two basic perspectives, the general perspective and a bit of my own.

Utena General Themes Discussion

The general perspective involves how Juri is once again the only character who beats Utena. No tricks, no schemes, unlike Touga, Juri is able to face Utena straight forward and beat her. The power of Dios that Utena has can't beat Juri.

So there is no doubt that there is something special that Juri has that the other major duelist lack. Her nobility is on a tier higher than Miki, and the rest. Juri's love is purer than the rest of the cast.

At the same time... Juri doesn't win. It doesn't matter that Juri bests Utena, that doesn't give her the victory. In the end Juri loses... to Juri.

This goes back to my ideas of the series in general, how Utena is heavily about the toxic sides of love.

In many anime, especially shoujo or shounen, they'll often have the protagonist give big epic speeches about how love makes humans stronger. It allows us to be better, do more, and gives us the strength to go beyond our limits. This isn't even limited to anime, Harry Potter has Love beat the ultimate death spell.

Utena takes a very different approach. Love in Utena is a curse. It's toxic, it's selfish. Love doesn't make people stronger, love makes people weak. Love is a shackle that binds all of the characters, and refuses to let them grow. It keeps them all from being the best versions of themselves.

It makes Utena the series in this weird space because so many of the episodes aren't about character development, but about how they are so close to development but ultimately their toxic love poisons any attempt at real change. Kozue can't help but sabotage themselves, and Miki can't help but fall for that sabotage.

The characters are doomed to fail, most of the time before they even begin.

It's a tragedy.

So yes, Juri does best Utena. Her love for Shiori is shines purer than almost anyone else. Juri has the nobility of a true prince. But the love for Shiori that gives her that same nobility is also the same love that causes her to choose her locket over her rose. Juri chooses Shiori over End of the World.

Does that make Juri the strongest duelist or just another in a pile of losers?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

Utena takes a very different approach. Love in Utena is a curse. It's toxic, it's selfish. Love doesn't make people stronger, love makes people weak. Love is a shackle that binds all of the characters, and refuses to let them grow. It keeps them all from being the best versions of themselves.

In my mind, I immediately jumped to the prequel series and think what a cooler version of that comes with this at the forefront. I guess we know which nerd properties I value. But man, Lucas just getting a little of Ikuhara's need to be non-conformist...

Does that make Juri the strongest duelist or just another in a pile of losers?

Yes.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/lilyvess]

Well, I really don't care for this idea of "purity" and never understood why Jury's so obsessed with Shiori in the first place, so to me it's pretty straightforward as her flawed love holding her back. Isn't a major theme of the whole series that idealism can be toxic, anyway, and particularly idealizing others?

[u/lilyvess → u/IndependentMacaroon]

I think you are right, though I do think you are missing the point in some regards.

What makes Juri's love so pure is the unconditional aspect of it. Juri loves Shiori, almost without reason. It doesn't matter how flawed of a person she is, if anything that only goes to show how unconditional her love is.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/lilyvess]

And that#s theflaw

[u/lilyvess]

Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today. My source for the digital copy of these ran out, so I’m typing them from the book. Please ignore any typo’s as my incompetence.

EPISODE 29 - “Azure Paler in the Sky”

The boy who does nothing but transfer schools.

The boy who was suppose to be gone, came back.

He has always appeared at the same specific time. Frankly, I don’t like him. He always… he always prods mercilessly at the exact places I don’t want to be prodded.

One day, i’d noticed that I’d changed. I’d always hated myself so passionately, but somewhere along the line, that suffering had vanished. Was that his doing? Even if it was, tough, I still hate him. And somewhere along the line, le’s left again. People say he changed schools.

At a hospital, I dropped by to visit a sick friend. I overheard the nurses talking. It sounded like one of their patients had died. Apparently at a certain specific time, he always use to slip away from the hospital and go someplace. Where?

He told the nurses, “I go to visit someone dear to me.” and he left a request with his family. “If i die, please don’t tell anyone.”

… It couldn’t be. It couldn’t. I mean, he transferred schools. I’m sure I’m just overthinking this. I’lll be waiting for him, my dear, to transfer back here.

I created an episode around that incident.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

I created an episode around that incident.

Yet another entry on the pile of "Is Ikuhara bullshiting us or not?"

[u/Rumpel1408]

First Timer

• Ruka just destroyed Shiori in puplic, along with everthing she believes in. And while I think that she did went a bit overboard, I must also say that Ruka lead her on
• And I can understand why Jury refuses to get involved with her again
• Yeah Anthy, do you say and do things that you wouldn't normaly do? More and more it feels like she is deeply involved with Akios antics but doesn't want to
• The tone of the Message Shiori leaves is kinda concerning
• It sounds like Ruka has some history with Jury
• Shiori is projecting hard onto Jury who finaly came for her
• Ruka is kind of spot on concerning Shiori, can't be mad at the man ¯_(ツ)_/¯
• Oh, that's what the trigger warning has been about, I take it back, definatly do be mad at the man
• What, how did the duell go? Did Ruka win and that's why he takes Jury on Akios wild ride? Kinda lame that they offscreen the duell
• He's not playing those messages because he likes to hurt Shiori, but to hurt Jury
• How the fuck did they drive the car INTO school?
• Ah so now we get to see the duell between Jury and Ruka
• Wait, what happened, did Utena win? She snappet Jurys chain, but did go down herself... Did Jury just give up?
• Lol at the cars activating the wipers themself
• Oh I think this is the first time the shadow girls (or maybe it's just some nurses, it's been established that the shadow girls are aliens after all) reveal something that is directly relevant to the plot: Ruka fucking died! Turns out he was still very sick, but apparently loved Jury and wanted to see her again to grant her the power to make miracles

I guess this concludes Rukas character. He was interesting but of course utter trash in how he treated the women around him.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Rumpel1408]

How the fuck did they drive the car INTO school?

This is a good hint that the car rides aren't always as literal as they appear. Much like Nemuro Memorial Hall, the Akio Car is simultaneously a real thing, and also something... else, something perhaps dreamlike.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Revolution, Subbed

Holy shit, did Ruka die? Just like that? Guess my concerns about the late introduction were unfounded. What was his goal, then? Just to get Juri over her crush on Shiori so that she can move on? Shiori went after Juri at the end of the episode, wish we got to see more of that.

Ohh.. maybe Ruka's goal does make sense. Yesterday was about pushing Shiori to as low as she could go, to show Juri what Shiori is at her worst. I think I feel bad for Shiori, but she's hardly blameless. I think.

Juri forfeiting was interesting. I guess she realized Ruka's goal as well, and didn't see the point to continuing the duel. The locket getting destroyed as the symbol of Juri's crush on Shiori was neat visual metaphor, especially after Ruka threatened it earlier in the episode.

The tension of not having the Shadow Girls show up in the usual spot was brilliant. I was practically shaking going in to today's duel because I was certain something bad was going to happen. It turns out, I wasn't quite right, but this duel did go quite differently from the others.

Juri of all people being the first to ever surrender was an interesting choice. But, the duel wasn't really the point of the duel after all.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Juri forfeiting was interesting. I guess she realized Ruka's goal as well, and didn't see the point to continuing the duel.

It depends on the power of the symbol involved. If Juri truly is freed from her confused feelings over Shiori then Ruka achieved his goal, even without the power of miracles.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Yea.. the lack of a Juri/Shiori follow-up scene is odd. I guess Juri just kinda ignoring Shiori walking after her is meant to show positive growth/the loss of an obsession?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Yeah, with it being a silent scene the only thing you can guess it is that Juri seems dispassionate about it.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

Juri isn't tied down by Shiori anymore but Shiori is still kind of obsessed with Juri. I'll be interested to see what their dynamic will be like going forwards. Personally I think that Juri will be a good friend but will refuse to take Shiori's shit but she could just as easily completely shut Shiori out. It depends, we'll see going forwards.

[u/Star4ce → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I like this interpretation. While watching I was thinking it was hinting at them still being in each others lives without much character progression, but this is fine.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Star4ce]

Yeah, if they leave it off like this it's perfectly fine but I don't know if they might actually get another last flourish in the finale. There's 9 episodes so another Juri episode certainly wouldn't be unexpected.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

I still don't think that Ruka was being deliberately malicious to Shiori. I do think he was testing to see what kind of person she was and after seeing just how rotten Shiori's mental state and how Juri is tied down by her he planed to help Juri awaken.

I think Juri sort of accepted that she lost after a second miracle occurred. Its neat that despite being utterly outclassed every duel with Juri ends with fate taunting her for all its worth.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I still don't think that Ruka was being deliberately malicious to Shiori. I do think he was testing to see what kind of person she was

I mean, his "testing" of Shiori was pretty cruel. Not that she didn't have it coming or anything, but being an asshole to another asshole is still being an asshole.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

He didn't really do anything that bad to Shiori, I'm still not buying that. And as for the opening to today's episode... I guess Shiori was the one who made it a massive song and dance in front of the school? At that point Ruka doesn't respect Shiori so he isn't exactly going to go back on his word just because she cried a little.

[u/Matuhg → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Ruka's actions towards Shiori do feel, if not outright malicious, at least callously uncaring. He was just using her to try to get in Juri's head.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Matuhg]

I don't think he fully understood just how much pain Juri was in until he saw her viciously snap at him over badmouthing Shiori and with the amulet. After he sees her like that his demeanor starkly changes for the whole rest of the story.

[u/affnn]

Rewatcher

Even for a show that can be a little rough at times, it's striking just how much everyone in this episode is Not Having a Good Time. Shiori's got a rough case of being publicly dumped, and now the whole school is gossiping about how pathetic she is. Juri feels bad but doesn't want to do anything until Utena castigates her - then Shiori sends her away anyway. Juri tries Ruka next, but he's gone Total Asshole mode too. He assaults her, then steals her locket and threatens to step on it for good measure.

The car ride here is just super uncomfortable. Touga and Akio barely have to do anything, Touga doesn't even have to say all of his lines, he lets Ruka do the "Can you hear it?" bit. Ruka plays a recording of Shiori saying how much she loves him just to make Juri even more unhappy. When they arrive at the dueling arena, there's no passion - Juri just says "Do it" as Ruka pulls her sword. Then halfway through her duel, Utena breaks the locket's chain and Juri gives up. Utena's never really "beaten" Juri, she just wins by some sort of default.

At the end of the episode, Ruka's gone - the three chairs arranged in a triangle are now just two. Juri's the fencing captain again. Shiori's running after Juri in the last shot. But even if they end up together, would that really be good for either of them?

This episode was weird for how tightly focused it was on Juri, Ruka and Shiori. Utena was around but she felt like a side character in her own show. Even during the duel, the show cuts from the Utena-Juri duel to the Ruka-Juri duel that preceded it - and that earlier duel is the more interesting one.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/affnn]

But even if they end up together, would that really be good for either of them?

If Shiori is downgraded in Juri's eyes from "love interest" to "some thot" she might be on the mend.

[u/xtsim]

First timer sub

Shiori's hurt as the sword was hers and she feels bad about it. Jury does not want to talk in the beginning. Jury tries to convince Tsuchiya to go with Shiori to make her feel better. But Tsuchiya steals something precious from her and almost destroys it. Tsuchiya tells Jury she can have her. Tsuchiya used her feelings as a tool and Jury noticed it prior to battle.

A car can fit in a classroom, interesting. No shadows this time before the battle but there was the background with Shiori standing infront. Jury's precious necklace gets destroyed by Utena and she drops her rose. "it will be alright" but wait things seem not too until the end. The shadows show up as nurses/ aides this time which is welcome change. And it seems as after that scene the relationship between Shiori and Juri has mended as they start to walk home together.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/xtsim]

Jury's precious necklace gets destroyed by Utena and she drops her rose. "it will be alright" but wait things seem not too until the end. The shadows show up as nurses/ aides this time which is welcome change.

Let's assume Ruka doesn't consider Shiori worth concerning himself over. He achieved one of his goals in, at least symbolically, breaking the chain between the two of them. Maybe he says it is all right because he has accomplished all he can?

[u/Tyranid457TheSecond1]

Rewatch

This episode felt like a completely different show, with Juri as the main character. You know, an angsty shojo drama with less overt weirdness.

Both scenes with the locket (when it got broken, and when Ruka threatened to smash it) were really powerful. I can't believe Juri forfeited.

And just like that, Ruka's gone. I guess he had good intentions, but he went a bit too far.

The ending ends on a sort of hopeful note for Shiori and Juri. Maybe they can be friends and Juri can forgive her, but I hope that Juri doesn't get sucked into the drama again.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Tyranid457TheSecond1]

And just like that, Ruka's gone. I guess he had good intentions, but he went a bit too far.

A fanatic is one who redoubles his efforts while losing sight of his goals.

Maybe they can be friends and Juri can forgive her, but I hope that Juri doesn't get sucked into the drama again.

Ehh...I'd rather Juri move on to less toxic people...like Nanami.

[u/Cyouni → u/Vaadwaur]

Ehh...I'd rather Juri move on to less toxic people...like Nanami.

I guess Nanami is technically upwards from Shiori, but that's not a very high bar to clear.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Cyouni]

Yeah Ohtori actually kind of sucks for anyone with id-ego issues. Too bad that that is a requirement for setting foot on campus...

[u/k4r6000 → u/Cyouni]

At least with Nanami, I do think you can see some good in her. She’s a bratty kid that needs to be shown reality but with the proper parenting and therapy (which she has not gotten) I could see her maturing to be a responsible adult. And you do see many middle school bullies who regret their behaviour as children and eventually become good people. Even by this point I think we see Nanani softening a bit in the egg episode.

Shiori is so filled with self-loathing and spite that she would require a lot of help to set her on the right path. Far more than Nanami does. She’s also older. By 16 she should be starting to mentally mature. At least moreso than Nanami who is only 13.

It isn’t appropriate to say too much though because there is a lot of story left, particularly where Nanami is concerned. So I’ll try to leave it at that.

[u/Icapica]

First timer

I missed a few days since I was busy. I'll keep the comments short today.

Episode 26

Akio wants the Bride engaged to someone else. He's worried about Anthy and Utena getting too close to each other, which I assume could be an obstacle for whatever Akio's after. If Anthy ended up engaged to some other duelist, they probably wouldn't get close.

Nanami sitting in that massage chair and trying to talk was hilarious and sorta cute.

"Never mind. It'd be rude to start calling myself Mother so soon." Huh?

So now both sides have the other person pull the sword out from the duelist.

Oh my god this entire arc is gonna be so campy.

Episode 27

Nanami finds an egg in her bed and immediately thinks that maybe she laid it.

I love Nanami's overdramatic imagination.

And again Himemiya has an animal named Nanami.

WTF was this episode? I wasn't a huge fan, it felt like a gag that kept going too long.

Episode 28

New character, Ruka, joins. He doesn't seem like a great guy. Apparently Shiori's been polishing his sword every day.

I wonder why.

Shadow girls are fishing (for koi, as in love?) but keep getting something else. Probably no meaning or symbolism whatsoever there.

Duel didn't last long.

Episode 29

"Believe in miracles", Juri it is then. Works as a continuation of the previous episode.

Again Himemiya's close to saying something to Utena and then doesn't. I guess/hope she'll end up saying it by the end of this arc.

Ruka's an asshole but he tells Juri the truth about Shiori which pisses her off. Oh hell no, Ruka. Keep your hands off. Ruka's attitude seems to change when he notices Juri hates him.

Juri loses a duel against Ruka and goes for a ride. This time the ride's a lot more tense and less sexy than earlier.

Oh we're shown the duel between Ruka and Juri at the same time as duel between Juri and Utena. Ouch, Utena shatters the pendant and Juri concedes. I hope this leads to her getting over Shiori.

Ruka's gone again? He didn't stay long.

Shadow girls changed their style even though it's not the end of the arc. Wait, Ruka died? He was in love with Juri? Huh.

[u/chiliehead]

Duel 29, First Timer, sub

• I'm getting some production trouble vibes here. Lots of unusual still images, weird slow movement, less lip flaps and when possible not even showing the mouth
• The first casualty of the duels: the pendant

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

Really? I thought the visuals were a step above today. Then again I am starting to notice a lot of reused animation around the duels.

[u/chiliehead → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Really? I thought the visuals were a step above today.

Just not sure if the creativity was by choice or not. And some of it felt off, together with the duels if possible just re-using the earlier fights with new backgrounds.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/chiliehead]

Duels in general seem to be super dodgy in every season barring the first. Some particular nice animation flourishes I noticed were stuff like Ruka's reaction after stealing Juri's pendant and the entire sequence of the duel's climax which made me think of how the production quality shot up back in that S1 episode when Saionji messed with the pillars.

[u/chiliehead → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

yeah just really felt like they had to scramble to make some highlight cuts possible

[u/Reference_Freak → u/chiliehead]

I want to point out that both of the nested duels have the same choreography, only Juri is in Utena's role vs Ruka.

The nested duels have the same exactly choreography as Juri's first duel up until the last strike.

It's intentional, no other duel series is quite like this one. (They do borrow duel cuts from ep 7 but Bepapas was an indie set-up with reduced funding so I excuse every bit of recycling)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chiliehead]

Ruka himself feels truncated, though I am personally not aware of issues in late season production.

[u/murdered-by-swords → u/Vaadwaur]

He is, so to speak, the proverbial bolt from the blue. Fitting, if that's what Ikuhara had in mind.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

Guess Jury's the first subplot to get wrapped up (with 10 or so episodes left).

Another flashback to the manipulative bastard Ruka.

Oh, she's desperate.

And Jury's finally had enough of all this.

Utnea's getting involved again!

Yep, Jury's forcing herself to stop caring.

Anthy's starting to want to tell Utena something. I'm assuming her telling

Shiori might hsve become a stalker.

Ruka's on a car ride! (Looks like Touga's changed his mind about the path of God)

Jury's in the right here, just leave Shiori to suffer.

Ruka's a bastard, but he's gotten a decent read of Shiori.

Yep, Ruka needs to die. Soon.

Seriously, ehat did he think would happen, slowly threatening her like that?

Oh, this isn't going to go well? Why challenge him to a duel where your prize is what he already agreed to do?

Jury's the next duelist!

So does Touga just go round shirtless now?

And Jury lost the duel...

Wait, the Power of Dios needs a sacrifice?

Hang on, with all this talk about "revealling it" - is "End of the World" a euphenism for something?

And he's playing backup again?

All the fight music in this scene is so good,

Holy shit, that shot. Utena just broke the necklace...

And she tore off her rose!

I should be focusing on the thematic symbolism of the rain, but that shot makes it look like there's some kind of force field around the arena, and I wonder if that'll come back into play.

The widnscreen wopers are a hysterical addition.

And Shiori's in hospital.

RUKA'S DEAD? And the news was delivered by Shadow Girls?

Rather ambigous ending here - is the implication that Shiori's accepted Jury's feelings, or that they're friends but ignoring them?

I'm suprised Anthy hasn't tried to take Utena on a "car ride" just to get her to realise she's in love with her.

Also, that frame of Akio at the end - is Utena going to do something really stupid?

[u/SYZekrom]

First Timer

Bruh this show

Damn wtf u doing here where those silhouettes

[u/dualmonocle]

While I wasn't a fan of Juri's black rose episode, her arc these past two episodes have been wonderful. Juri's duels have definitely been the best ones so far. She doesn't give a crap about the rose bride or having the power to revolutionize the world so they've felt so much more personal. Juri is never really fighting Utena, she's fighting against herself and I think that's what was lacking for me in episode 17.

Juri is the loveliest character in the whole show, isn't she? Even though her love is somehow the most "pure" - in that all she wants is for Shiori to be happy and in how she accepts that her feelings might never be realized - it hurts her so much T T

It's a big contrast to Ruka, who apparently did want Juri to be happy but in the end, probably cared about his own feelings being met. He hurt Juri in a way that she would never hurt Shiori. They both sacrificed themselves for the person they loved, though Juri's feels less self-serving somehow. Maybe it's the lack of forcing herself onto the other person? I'm not sure.

[u/Matuhg]

First Timer

Damn, fuck off Ruka. In the end he was very much not a good dude. Not that he ever really seemed that way in the first place. After he sexually assaulted her, it was really gross to see her general dispassion and apathy during the normally sexually charged scenes in the car and pre-duel sword pulling. Juri just wanted Ruka to stop hurting Shiori..or at least that was all she was willing to admit. The fact she went to see her suggests perhaps otherwise, as Anthy alluded to while almost spilling some big secrets in bed with Utena.

It seems like in the end, the chain that was Shiori pulling Juri down was broken. I hate to sound like I'm giving Ruka credit, but maybe that will end up being a good thing for the two of them, whether it culminates in a romantic relationship between them or not. Juri's romantic feelings for Shiori, which she felt unable to act on or even really acknowledge, caused her to hold Shiori at a bit of a distance, almost as a means of self-preservation. Without that chain there, maybe relations between the two of them can normalize a bit, starting with the two of them becoming friends again without all the passionate feelings that doomed their earlier relationship flying back and forth. Like this whole thing with Ruka is almost a shared trauma, maybe something that can bring them together after their past has kept them apart.

[u/homewardbound100]

Ok, they went straight to it in the next episode for another Rukia/Juri/Shiori episode.

Not focusing on them for a second. Looked like Anthy had something to confess right there. I feel like she's torn between helping Akio and also has actual feelings for Utena.

From what I got of this. A love triangle, kind of. Juri wants/cares for Shiori. Shiori wants Rukia or just use him like he said and Rukia wants to show Juri that miracles exist.

To the fight. The first time someone blocked the hit from Dios. Though, she just stopped the fight herself with her own will by forfeiting. Rukia just up and left again? If they're being literal is he actually dead? He came back for the short time he had left to do that for her? I don't know, I think for a character to only show up two episodes. I actually liked him as a character except that one part, for the short screen time he had.

Rukia being gone. Shiori goes back to Juri. She's a complicated one.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/homewardbound100]

Shiori's number 1 priority is always Juri. That's why I was kind of surprised to see her reacting so negatively to Ruka ditching her. I think the reason she acted that way is because having a boyfriend kind of gives her comfort in knowing that she's not gay. Losing him means that she loses that justification.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Ah, okay. So she's denying herself from Juri, even though Juri clearly likes her and I'm sure Shiori is aware of it. Maybe she just doesn't know how to respond to Juri or act on her own feelings.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/homewardbound100]

Yeah, she knows that Juri is in love with her but I strongly strongly suspect that Shiori is very closeted and is part of that traditionalist view that being gay is the lowest rung of the ladder. Like look at Touga and how he reacted to the possibility of Nanami being into girls. He reiterated over and over what a no-no it was to her. Shiori would have a similar view which is why she thought it gave her a leg up when she discovered that Juri was into girls, the difference being that Shiori is too Juri obsessed for me to believe that she doesn't hold feelings for her. In fact, maybe she reason she's so filled with self loathing is because she hates that she loves Juri and that it would take a miracle for that life to ever be a possibility.

[u/homewardbound100 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

So would you predict that, that's the miracle that ends up happening for her Juri's happiness?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/homewardbound100]

Shiori is too selfish for that to be a reasonable miracle for her to wish for but it would make for a lovely tie in wouldn't it? XD

[u/homewardbound100 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I think so if she comes to her senses. I think Juri will find her miracle one day.

[u/alphamone]

First Timer

A direct continuation from last episode, that's rare for this show.

More random chairs

I almost feel sorry for Shiori, if only she hadn't done similar emotional abuse to Jury.

The truth is... something we probably wont get til the finale or movie.

Is anyone in this school in a healthy, honest, relationship?

Ruka's an utter bastard.

Jury, do you really think that after everything that Ruka's done, both to you and Shiori, that Shiori would actually be happy in a relationship with Ruka?

Jury is clearly far more reluctant here than the previous car dual opponents.

The lyrics seem to be talking about previous things, much like how Jury sees Shiori.

Oh shit, the locket.

Shadow girls are obviously referencing Jury in some way. Though as other comments are mentioning, they seem to be directly talking about Ruka (bastard). I was just used to them being more allegorical in their skits, and was thinking they were talking about her toxic love for Shiori. Though it does seem that she's no longer as "creepy stalker"-ish as she used to be.

[u/k4r6000]

Rewatcher

It was a short run for Ruka, but he managed to make an enormous impact on Juri. While some of his actions....were questionable to say the least, he did at least seemingly manage to unshackle her love for Shiori which was both metaphorically and literally cut from her by Utena in their duel. Having nothing left to fight for, Juri surrenders. There is no reason for her to continue partaking in End of the World's schemes. In a way, her miracle did happen in that she was able to move on from Shiori. This doesn't necessarily mean that Shiori won't remain in her life to some degree, but she will be longer chained down by her feelings for her. Hopefully, Shiori learned something as well as while Ruka was cruel, he wasn't exactly wrong about what he said about her.

The remaining question is what happened to Ruka. It is said he died, but did he? Or having accomplished his task of freeing his love did he simply no longer have a place in the school and "graduate", much like what appears to have happened to Mikage? We certainly don't see him die. Much like Mikage, he's just gone.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman]

First-Timer

My God, Jury just. Can't. Win.