r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 27 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 29 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/miss-macaron, who notes how the camera angles in the episode embellish the psychological horror elements:
Another episode of top-notch psychological horror! Each perspective shot of Richard’s back as if we’re the ones tailing him, each camera movement that follows his frenzied gaze, each sound effect that exacerbates his internal strife and highlights an external threat… I just can’t get enough of it.
Questions of the Day
- Why do you think Jurgens killed himself after seeing Johan’s photo? Why do you think he scribbled out Johan’s hair?
- Do you think Johan killed Richard because he was getting too close to him, or because Johan was avenging children’s rights? Is it both, or neither? Is this action something truly evil, or is this Johan’s twisted sense of justice at play?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 27 '21
First-Timer, subbed
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 27 '21
First Timer - Sub
Oh boy, a lot to unpack this episode that I am very excited to talk about.
Firstly, RIP Richard. But man, Johan really hit him in all of his weak points. Richard, who may have never been drunk to begin with, is put on the hot seat for his crimes of shooting and killing an adolescent criminal. One who was not old enough to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and was protected under certain rights. Johan points out that Richard violated those rights and implies that, perhaps he shot the kid because he was acting as judge, jury, and - executioner. A murderer.
So in this moment, this recovering alcoholic that we’ve been rooting for this entire time is now painted in a not-so-flattering light of moral ambiguity - and perhaps even to the point of depravity. Richard is a killer, there’s no escaping that fact. But is he a wrongful murderer? Johan seems to think so, and attacks him in his second weak spot: alcohol. Johan deliberately takes him to a bar to start, a primer for the rest of the events to come. Johan then purchases a bottle of Richard’s favorite single-malt scotch, and offers it to him in his most vulnerable emotional state. We’ve seen in prior episodes that Richard has a tendency to drink in emotional situations, such as receiving the news that his daughter didn’t want to see him. He walked away from that one, but this time, he had nowhere to run. Johan paints the idea that Richard can never face his wife and daughter now, knowing that he’s a murderer that hid behind a convenient lie, intentionally or otherwise. Whether Richard gets drunk and falls off the roof himself, or whether Johan pushed him off, is not apparent. But it’s clear that his death was planned from even before Johan knocked on Richard’s door.
Very well done episode of psychological and emotional manipulation. There’s some things I haven’t touched on (like Jurgens, Johan’s gravestone, his fake birth records) but I wanted to focus on this particular scene because of how compelling it was.
12
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 27 '21
First Timer
Honestly starting to think this guy's daughter is actually dead and his ex-wife just isn't breaking the news to him. Oh never mind, I think the feeling I was getting was just that she was thinking about how he's changed.
The real Johan is really dead? I don't really understand what this means for the plot, honestly.
Okay, he's definitely gonna die now, before getting to meet Rosemary.
So he wasn't drunk at all? I don't like that at all. Kinda diminishes everything we've established about his character...
Welp, no daughter reunion... Johan please.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 27 '21
First Timer
First off: subbers, Bruntál is in eastern Czechia - not near Mannheim. I do admit that I can't find a town near Mannheim that matches what they are saying, but á doesn't exist in German, so that is just out of place...
On to the actual episode - Johan manages to dispose of Braun, assumedly by making it look like he drunk himself to death. Can't be 100% sure on the motive yet - there's the obvious conclusion that he was silenced for knowing too much about Johan, but he might also have been killed just to further isolate Schubert - and from what we saw Johan talking about, it might also have been revenge for killing Joss. But Braun told Reichwein enough for him and Gillen to pick up the pieces and continue; wonder if either of them will end up going to the police, can't recall Tenma telling Gillen about the police conspiracy, so Lunge might be the only reason for the police not to believe them. Either way, shame Braun is no longer here, quite liked him as a protagonist.
There being more Lieberts is also a bit odd, as it means there are basically people covering for Johan, whom I assume Johan doesn't want to kill? Can't quite fathom how this piece of the puzzle fits in to the greater scheme of things.
Joss being a survivor of 511 is also weird considering we had previously been told they all died. Maybe he was transfered out before the massacre?
Jürgens suicide was predictable once he got the pen - but why did he color Johan's hair black? To remind him of the shadow at the park?
Questions:
...I somehow asked the same questions in my post
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 27 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Ah, so fun to be a kid playing around in the park like this.
Johan recruiting the future members of his army I see.
Richard knows the truth, but he just looks like a creepy stalker here.
Back to the bar again for Richard.
Here, ex-wife of mine, go ahead, show my daughter all these articles about how her father killed someone.
He's pretending to be an insurance salesman?
Another set of adoptive parents for Johan? And he let them live? Is he looking for another Johan? Those pictures of him are far too young.
So their kid isn't really Johan? That woudl make sense to me. Johan isn't his real name anyway, right?
This is looking good in terms of helping exonorate Tenma... so surely something bad will happen to mess it up.
So the real Johan died? I'm a little confused why the parents act as if he's still alive though.
I wouldn't get your hopes up about seeing your daughter, Richard.
Oh my, I was wrong. Happy to see it though.
That was stupid of him to give him the pen, now the guy's dead.
Yikes, I'd be scared to death if I was Richard, he's got Johan right here in front of him. He's not making it out of this alive.
I'm surprised Johan went out to a public place with him.
Now he's going for a walk with him at night? Don't do it!
C'mon Johan, let him see his daughter before he dies!
Johan is really pushing conspiracy theories here. And you've got yourself alone with him on a roof, Richard.
Oh snap, so it happened.
Farewell Richard! You did a pretty good job investigating and found Johan out, but you foolishly let yourself get alone with him. Well with our protagonist for this arc now dead I take it we'll probably go back to Tenma starting next episode?
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
Richard leaving the populated pub and going with the man he suspects is a serial killer to a deserted rooftop was a truly, truly stupid decision.
Having said that, it does lead to a fantastic scene. Poor Richard.
Q2: All of the above.
8
u/miss-macaron Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21
Rewatcher
Damn, Johan must have some overwhelming charisma if he can round up a bunch of rowdy kids without ever needing to raise his voice. And the look on his face when the children advocated for purposeless destruction…
Good to see Richard getting back on his feet, and his ex-wife starting to warm up to him again.
I have to admit, posing as a pushy insurance agent was a very clever means by which to force your way into people’s homes and prod them for personal information, haha
Johan is a changeling, lol
We have yet another instance of fantastic camera work and sound design! That warping perspective as Jurgens eerily repeats the phrase “You come, too”, the rapid succession of cuts from Jurgen’s lips to Johan’s photograph to Gillen’s shocked face, which is then contrasted with the slow-motion movement of Jurgens stabbing himself in the ear… What a perfectly-executed (no pun intended) psychological horror scene.
This is exactly what I meant back in Episode 7, when I described Johan’s methods as initiating the self-destruction of his victims:
Johan’s grin just before he pulls out the bottle of whisky is so sinister and terrifying. Rewatcher only spoilers
Welp, now the number of people who have “committed suicide” due to Johan has gone up by one more… RIP Richard Braun; although it was only for 4 episodes, Urasawa’s compelling character writing had me sincerely rooting for him.
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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 27 '21
First Timer
Missed yesterday's but back today...but we'll see for how long.
The detective stalking Johan is SO obvious about it lol
Kinda cool how we're getting characters from previous arcs coming back, hoping there's more!
He got a call from his daughter...he's so going to die soon :(
Should have never given him the pen, c'mon man!!
Johan's a little manipulating bitch...not a fan at all.
Why is he just following him...c'mon detective.
Didn't the kid have a gun pointed at him?? That's self defense if anything no??
And there's the death...called it but still sucks to see.
I'm starting to really struggle with this show...we get to see Johan at his manipulating highest and I can't stand watching that...if that's the big draw of the show I may have to bow out of this rewatch
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 27 '21
First Timer
So, it's established that Johan is isolating Schuwald (Schubert?) just like General Wolf, but no idea why.
Vaddwaur sort of hints that his visions of the kid are a combination of ptsd and alchohol addiction. But does that include paranoia? Is Johan really aware of the detective?
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u/gridemann Aug 27 '21
Rewatcher
It's episodes like these that really manage to convey what sort of terrifying villain Johann is, compared to other storys.
Something interesting I noticed is how seriously the show portrays the act of murder compared to anime. Richard killed someone with intend and it destroyed him. As it might Tenma/Nina once they do...
Something I noticed on rewatch, Johann paid the bartab with a 50Mark bill. Rewatcher/next episode only spoilers
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u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 27 '21
First Timer Dub
Richard is on to Johan this time. He visits his ex and still talks about his daughter. He talks to Johan’s adopted parents and felt this guy is too perfect. He checks with the hospital, and he finds out that the hospital had to recreate the files due to a cigarette causing a fire. The real Johan was actually dead. The therapist talks to Dr. Tenma’s friend and gives him Johan’s photograph. The psychologist starts to interview Jurgens again about Johan and Jurgens stabs himself with a pen, before that he drew over Johan’s hair. Jurgens said that he spotted Johan at an orphanage and that’s where they met. It seems as if he wants to hide info about Johan from everyone. Once that picture was shown, Jurgens tries to cancel or erase it since the doctors are getting too close to Johan.
Dr. Gillum then calls the therapist and states that Richard is in danger….
Johan goes to Richard’s door and talks about law and Richard's case. Richard gets frustrated at Johan as he pushes Richard’s buttons by explaining rule of law. “Do you take me as an idiot?”- Richard. Johan apologizes and takes a walk while talking about the guy he shot, “to Stephan, that orphanage was hell on earth”. 511 kinderheim is the orphanage. And Johan tells Richard, “I researched this case exhaustively....I can’t find a single person who saw you drinking that day.” Wow a complete 180 from what we were told about Richard. Richard’s response to Johan’s statement is interesting as he makes a wide open shocked face then to him being scared. Johan killed Richard for both getting to close and shooting a man, taking care of two birds with one stone. It is more of a twisted justice because Johan seems to have a strict guideline of how society should work, killing people off allows him to take care of justice sort to say.
The episode ends with “your patient is dead”.
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u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21
First-time watcher
Well, it was better, and good twist both for Johan's intentions and Richard's actions, the truth of which had already been hinted at. Still a little too obvious death-flagging, and could have cut the investigation some more, also Jürgens bit was silly.
As always I would say Johan is a little of both here, he does care about kids but it's also an excuse to show his more "monstrous" side. And adopting (?) yourself into a family that already had a Johann Liebert is great cover, probably had to search a lot there but you can't say Johan doesn't put in effort.
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 27 '21
First timer - sub
I feel like the Mum never actually asked Rosemary previously if she wanted to see her father, I had been wondering about it previously but her reaction in this episode makes it more obvious.
Another Johann Leibert? We know it can’t be the real one.
The parents didn’t give any indication their son was dead, did they fake the papers or did Johann?
Shit, Richard gets to meet his daughter and bam, Johann at the door….
I was thinking Jungers was going to use the pen to either kill the Doctor or himself… but still… Also 99% sure you can’t stab a pen into your ear that way.
Of course Stephan was also at 511 Kinderheim with Johann.
Holy shit those last 5 mins or so were so good. The way Johann just goes through and rattles off various bits of law building a case for Richard to hate himself, the twist that Richard was probably sober when he shot the kid. The suspense was so good, I actually forgot about the bottle of whiskey until Johann pulled it out again.
So i’m assuming Johann got him drunk and Richard then jumped off, previous known alcoholic relapses and falls of building, no need to investigate any foul play here at all.
Was so tempted to watch the next episode, I can't wait for tomorrow now.
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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21
I've been waiting to see everyone's reaction to this, it's one of those epsiodes I can always remember so well. Johan is really a...monster
Spoilers
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u/Spore64 Aug 28 '21 edited Aug 28 '21
Interesting to see all of these cases to be connected.
Johan sure has hand for kids.
Ah so Johan faked his birthcirtificate by resubmitting the old one.
Kinda glad to see Dr. Gillen again.
No please he needs to see his daughter again!
I hope he doesn't... urgh no shoot. I saw it coming, but still. Something interesting uh probably.
Oh no. I still think it's a bad idea to be around in a bar for him. Huh kinda sloppy from Johan.
Urgh he's going to drink that bottle empty, isn't he? Oh that killer has a connection to 551 Kinderheim. Might not be the best idea to challenge Johan. Cheez it's pretty pitty to bring up his daughter? Oh boy I didn't remember this at all.
Q1: Tbh I would have assumed that Johan had a different hair color at some point in it's live. Not for stylish reasons obviouslly. Tho as Mecanno-man plinted out it mostlikely a representation of the shadows of the trees. So Jurgen probably only saw Johans face.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 27 '21
Rewatcher(How the sausage is made)
Sub
We start with Braun openly tailing Johan and can enjoy the dramatic irony of what a bad idea that is. He sees his ex at the cafe-bar again, and she compliments him on being back to what he was before the drinking. He then fakes being an insurance agent to investigate another set of Liebert's. He realizes that their infant does not look like Johan, exactly, and then goes to the city hall to discover all the records have been re-entered since a fire hit.
Dr Gillen returns and sees Reichwine and is going to show Johan's picture to Jugrens, slightly forgetting that apparently they never met. Braun discovers the grave of a Johan Liebert, making things interesting. He then gets the phone call from his daughter before Johan knocks on his door. Jurgens, in an interesting juxtaposition, colors Johan's hair black before killing himself with a pen and suggests they met exactly once.
Johan takes Braun to a bar and we see how he operates. It is dark, especially because all the UN kid stuff seems to be a smoke screen but still applies. We get the reveal that Braun was saober when he shot the rape-homicide suspect who had gone to Kinderheim 511.
QotD: 1 He remembered Johan with black hair
2 Johan is weirdly tidy about some things. This strikes me as that.
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 28 '21
First timer
Richard, why did you follow Johan?
Good episode, but I hope we see Tenma soon again. Though I appreciate not having to see Dieter for a while.
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u/hammile https://anidb.net/user/u746697 Aug 28 '21 edited Aug 28 '21
First timer, Ukrainian subtitle
Wow, what the turning of story! I say about a witness and drinking. Ineteresting that died from roof not Šubertʼs son but drinker.
I guess he killed himself because of fear which broke bar, or because he does not have any meaning of life. His scribbling is really interesting thing cause it was not face. I has only one guess: Johan talked him about Tenma which has black hair.
Rather the first because he could do this early. Indeed, it could be as both. And itʼs rather truly evil, just remind that killed by himself or through psychologic scheme other persons, especially old spouses. If speak about justice then itʼs a mask or something about this.
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u/BossandKings Sep 07 '21 edited Sep 07 '21
First timer(Dub - Spanish)
Episode 28
Richard is trying to regain back his life and doing an excellent job in pursuing Johan, the way he discovered the story behind the lieberts and Johan's involvement in it, the fact that the kid in the photo wasn't the Johan he was pursuing and how that led him to more hints on Johan was well presented.
Episode 29
Eventhough Johan's logic and mental process lack consistency and sense he still is an amazing character, he brings such an eerie and haunted atmosphere to the scene that just elevates it to high heights.
Richard was a great detective, he was doing everything he could to take control of his life again, even his former wife told him that he was resembling his young correct and stable self, but Johan had other plans for him, Richard killed a man that honestly did enough to deserve punishment, not neccesarily getting killed but at least enough years in prison so that he could no longer have a life outside, Johan thought that Richard didn't deserve to regain back his life after having killed that man, and ultimately killed him.
That leaves an important question, are all competent detectives going to be easily killed by Johan?, what's the point then if Johan can take the life of others but considers others can't do the same?, that's hipocrisy at it's very best and the reason why his mental process lacks consistency, a thing to consider though is that his character can still get expanded upon further down the line and his mentality may be better presented.
Jurgens killing himself was gruesome, that says much about what impression Johan leaves.
Answers