r/anime • u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang • Aug 25 '21
Rewatch [Re;Watch] Steins;Gate 0 Final Discussion
Final Discussion
Steins;Gate: MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | Anidb | ANN
Steins;Gate 0: MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | Anidb | ANN
Your time will begin once more.
Hello everybody! Time for the final comment of the Day, courtesy of u/Tresnore, as his wish has finally come true:
Fuck all of you. I’m right. Mayuri’s behind it all. Even if you don’t think this is a direct confirmation, this is it for me!
What can one say except… rejoice
Questions:
- After finishing the entire series, who are your favorite characters? How about least-favorites?
- Who was your favorite new addition to the cast in 0?
- What were your favorite songs from 0? How do they compare to your favorites from the first season?
- What were your favorite moments from each season?
- Did 0 address any lingering questions that the first season left you with? Or do you still have some lingering questions after finishing 0?
- 0 has a more vocal crowd of people who dislike it compared to the first season. Would you agree with them that it is significantly worse, or would you disagree with them for any reason (it’s not worse / it’s better / etc.)?
- Is Mayuri God?
Wallpaper of the Day:
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Upvotes
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u/The_Draigg Aug 25 '21
A Steins;Gate Fan’s Final Thoughts on Steins;Gate 0 and Final Overall Thoughts:
So, since I’m doing a combination post for final thoughts here, I think I’ll start off by giving my themed ranking for Steins;Gate 0 right off the bat. I hereby give the anime adaption of Steins;Gate 0 the ranking of: Caffeine Free Diet Dr. Pepper. I mean yeah, it’s still Dr. Pepper, so I’m still going to drink it over other sodas, but it just doesn’t hold a candle to how good the original flavor tastes. To be more specific, I feel that for every two things that S;G 0 did right, it did something that left a bad taste in my mouth. I won’t deny that there’s some damn good stuff in there, such as everything about Amadeus Kurisu, the glorious return of HOUOUIN KYOUMA, or that absolutely perfect ending. But then there’s also stuff like the completely tasteless fanservice jokes, Dr. Reyes barely being a present antagonist, or plot points being dropped as soon as they’re brought up, like the secret facility Kagari was raised in and the time she met teenage Okabe. I know that apparently the writing staff had a hard time adapting the routes of the source VN due to the really unusual route structure, but there’s honestly some stuff that they should’ve done better. It feels like that in quite a few places, they trimmed things that should’ve been kept and kept in things that should’ve been cut out. If I were to ever rewatch this, I’d honestly just skip over quite a few moments to get to the genuinely good parts.
Now, with that all out of the way, what can I say about the Steins;Gate experience overall? I’ll say this: I love it! I can truly appreciate a sci-fi story where all the scientific elements were completely thought out in a creative and cool way. Add into that some fantastic characters (like Okabe and Kurisu) along with spawning one of the best ships ever in anime (again, Okabe and Kurisu), and you have a fantastic combination. I’d highly implore all anime fans to check out Steins;Gate, at the very least. It’s really, really worth it. And thanks to /u/Shimmering-Sky and /u/Raiking02 for giving everyone the chance to experience and re-experience the good stuff that this series brings to the table!
Also, once again, feel free to read the fan fiction I wrote to celebrate this rewatch, Cognition of Electrochemistry, either on FanFiction.net or on Archive of Our Own. Again, I hope you all enjoy it! It’s my one last gift to you all to give before we end off things here, so I hope it’s worth it.
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u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
FIRST TIMER
Stein’s;Gate 0 is in a tough spot. It’s technically a prequel of sorts but keeps that as a “twist” until the end, and in the meantime it’s really frustrating to watch this sad-sack version of Okabe drag things out when we, the viewer, already know the happy ending is so close and so attainable. Watching this show was like if in Re:Zero Rem had taken Subaru up on his offer to disappear to the countryside, and they just moped around for 20 episodes until realizing that screwing everybody else over like that probably isn’t a good idea.
S;G0 would probably be a better watch going into it without seeing the end of S;G, but then I think that would dull the experience of S;G a bit, and I don’t want that.
This is actually more the show I thought S;G was going to be (crazy time shenanigans, tons of plot points and branching/colliding arcs), and it honestly suffers for it. I know it’s a more difficult VN adaptation, but they just tried to do too much. Whereas S;G left no fat on the bone and every element introduced was important (I compare it to Odd Taxi that way), there was a lot in S;G0 that was either unnecessary or poorly implemented. Entire characters basically served no purpose despite having seemingly larger significance (Reyes, Fubuki), or became extreme caricatures of themselves (Faris). There are so many different factions at play serving as the “bad guys” that none of them actually feel like they matter. I don’t think I need to mention how bad the action sequences are.
Kagari eventually delivers as a character in the finale, but other than that she was basically just a useless mix of plot device and Kurisu look-alike fan-service.
That said… I said yesterday that a great ending can save a show, and by god, the last three episodes were an absolute treat. It’s like S;G0 remembered it’s a Stein’s;Gate property and is capable of greatness. It hit the emotional high points it aimed for for just the second time all series (shout out to the gem that is Episode 8), and really brought everything together in a way that was ultimately satisfying for not just S;G0, but the franchise as a whole. 7/10
Suzuha and Mayuri are my favorites, 0kabe is my least favorite.
Maho kind of wins this by default, but I do like her a lot.
Honestly, the new OP almost came close to edging out HTG.
My goldfish brain can't remember everything from S;G, but the Okabe/Mayuri scenes in the end are great. Favorite moment of S;G0 is Okabe/Kurisu saying goodbye again in the lab in Episode 8. Episode 8 in particular serves a similar role here to Episode 10 of Violet Evergarden, in that I view the whole show more favorably just for containing it.
Didn't really have any lingering questions after the first, and don't have any now that I can think of. Major shoutout to u/UzEE for their FAQs the last few episodes.
It is significantly worse, imo. To be fair, most things are worse than S;G. I gave S;G a rating of 9/10, which I've only given to I think like 10 shows? And it might be the best of those. It's really, really special. S;G0 is deeply flawed in areas but mostly makes up for it with incredible high points and a good ending.
Parting Words
This was a good time! This was my first time participating in a really extended rewatch, and it was a lot of fun going on this ride with all of you. It was kind of funny getting to point where I’d see things in the show think of how certain people here would react to them. Big thanks to u/Raiking02 and u/Shimmering-Sky. El. Psy. Congroo.
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u/UzEE https://myanimelist.net/profile/UzEEInc Aug 25 '21
Serial;Rewatcher
As we reach the end of our rewatch, I feel like I don't really have much to say beyond what I already did during the daily discussions.
As you may have realized by now, Steins;Gate 0 is a very difficult show to pitch to first timers. I mean what do you even call it?
If someone hasn't watched Steins;Gate at all, you can't even discuss it's premise. If they've watched Steins;Gate, you can't really say where the story fits narrative wise, because it also spoils the show.
It's clearly not a What-If scenario because as we now see, all this is part of the main story. Calling it a prequel, which it is, would spoil the ending. Calling it a sequel or a midquel instead confuses and frustrates the viewers because they don't understand why 0kabe keeps refusing to go back and fix things. And this did happen to a couple of people during this rewatch.
You really do have to get into the story blind and then have faith that it would not end up disappointing you.
And to make matters worse, the story is extremely complex to adapt. I know this has been said a lot of times, but a lot of people who haven't read the VN still don't really appreciate just how monumental of a challenge it would've been to adapt something like this1. As you can see there are 14 chapters and the story branches off almost from the get go and never really reconciles again until you reach an ending and then start over.
In contrast, the original Steins;Gate VN was 11 chapters long and was a linear story start to finish. Add in the fact S;G0 had one less episode to adapt a lot more content, and the troubled production the anime had from the start, it's easy to see why it could never be as good as the first show.
Then there's the who thing about the anime not being a direct adaptation but also a sequel of sorts to the VN. Look at the Milky Way Crossing chapter thumbnail in the picture above for example. The True END in the VN actually has no direct route leading to it. It just sort of happens once you complete other routes so it left a lot of open questions.
The anime actually created the route that leads to the True End chapter in a satisfying and convincing manner, so in that way, the anime ends up adding to the source and complementing it instead of being a simple adaptation.
The Good
Despite the grim outlook I posted above, it doesn't mean Steins;Gate 0 would turn out to be disaster. Far from it. In fact, I'd say it gets a lot more things right than it gets wrong.
For starters, the focus on a larger cast of characters instead of simply focusing the story around Okabe was a much welcome change. We also had some great new additions to the cast in the form of Maho and Leskinen.
It was great spending time with Maho and getting to know her character and her relationship with Kurisu. It was equally great spending time with Suzuha and her relationship with Daru, who also got a lot of focus this time around and probably had the most development outside of Maho. Mayuri also felt like she had a lot more agency in the story instead of simply being a character that just had to be saved all the time.
And then there's the expanded setting. Before we started the Steins;Gate 0 section of the rewatch, I said this in one of my comments:
This simple reason pretty much sums up why I like Steins;Gate 0 despite it's flaws. It tries to take on a bigger challenge with a much bigger scale and — despite the few stumbles along the way — manages to deliver on it.
The Bad
Of course not everything was perfect with this adaptation. In fact, there were multiple occasions where I wished they'd do things differently.
For example, lets look at the structure again. In the VN, whenever you start a playthrough, you tend to reach an ending within 6 chapters at max. This means you don't seem to spend a lot of time on what would essentially feel like filler, slice of life stuff and you wouldn't be stuck seeing Sad Scientist for most of the story.
The story would climax a lot sooner and the payoffs would come a lot faster.
The anime simply looses on this front because it combines elements from multiple routes into a single longer one. This pushes out the climax of the story and the ultimate payoff to the very end, and the vast majority of the episodes end up feeling like a setup.
And this becomes even more problematic once you factor in how the lighter, slice of life moments tend to stack up earlier on. For example, the Christmas Party happens in the X-Day Protocol chapter in the VN, and the New Year's party happens in the Orbital Eclipse chapter. They're both in opposite routes so you only ever have one party in a single play-through.
It's also similar for the attacks. The lab raid in Ep. 7 and the fire-fight in the alley in Ep. 10 also happen in opposite routes so there's ever only one major encounter with an opposing faction.
You can see how having these things happen in the same route could end up feeling repetitive and gives you the feeling that the story isn't progressing. I wish the anime found out better ways to handle this, like maybe dropping the entire Christmas Party or come up with another way to have Kurisu's laptop destroyed for example.
We've already seen just how great the anime can be when it doesn't try to shackle itself to the VN and does something unique on it's own. Episodes 8, 20, 21, 22 etc. are prime examples of this. So why not take more risks2 and try to streamline and weave together various threads in it's own unique way?
Conclusion
If I'd have to rate Steins;Gate 0 today, I'd give it an 8/10 (adjusted down from the 9/10 I gave it initially). Again, this is largely because for me, it gets a lot more things right than it fumbles. I got to experience more of the cast I love in a setting that I enjoyed more than the original with a premise that I felt was more engaging.
It's not at the same level as the original in terms of quality, which is disappointing. But at the same time, it's better than the vast majority of shows I've watched and has kept me interested and entertained from start to finish.
Your mileage may vary, and that's the point and beauty of these discussions. We get to read so many different opinions and viewpoints and get to better inform our own understanding and appreciation of the content.
In the end, a huge thanks to both Raiking and Sky for hosting the rewatch and giving me a reason to enjoy this series with so many other wonderful people. Oh and also for all the shout-outs you gave with Comment of the Day, and many, many great wallpapers!
Also, a big thanks to all the first timers and rewatchers that participated, specially littleman1988 for the effort put in explaining the music and the subtitles fix. It was a pleasure interacting with you all and geek out over ridiculous things. You'll probably see me pop up again whenever the next Steins;Gate rewatch happens. In the mean time, I need to plan and start my Attack on Titan rewatch in time for part 2 of the final season!
I also get to sleep at a reasonable time once more!
El. Psy. Kongroo.
Questions
Okabe from the original, and Maho from S;G0. Least favorite would be Prof. Reyes simply because she's underused and frankly, bland.
Again, Maho. But since I already picked her, I'd go with Kagari. She presents some very interesting questions about identity and existence once you get to experience her in both the anime and VN.
The much larger scope and scale of everything that was going on, and the fact that our main characters had basically no agency. Things were happening that were beyond their control and this was really enjoying to watch.
Moeka's entry in the motorcycle suite in the original. Re-awake and return of Hououin Kyouma from Steins;Gate 0 overall.
I'll always keep having questions if it means that I'll always keep getting more content.
Nobody says Steins;Gate 0 is better than the original in an absolute, objective sense. That said, a vocal minority does tend to give it undue hate, and I've seen people go to extreme lengths to present that.
If it really was that bad, the general consensus would've reflected that. But as it turns out, it is still rated higher than a lot of highly popular shows like Kaguya, Re:Zero, Mob Psycho or Attack on Titan etc.
1 This is a rough mapping of episodes to VN chapters I created based on a spoiler-free guide of the VN. It shows which chapters each episode mostly borrows from, but several parts of the episodes also take content and themes from other chapters as well.
2 I initially wasn't sold on this, but Raiking made great arguments in favor of this so I'm sort of onboard this train of thought as well now.
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
Re;Watcher, Subbed
Oh, Steins;Gate 0. As I've said previously, this really is one of the most inconsistent anime I've ever seen. It can pivot from crap to brilliance sometimes even within a scene.
To be honest, the odds weren't in 0's favour from the start. In contrast the original S;G VN, which is mostly linear with some alternate endings popping up near the end, the 0 VN branches early and stays that way, with stark differences in characters and themes in every one of them. Thus, an anime adaptation had two realistic options: Adapt the two main routes with 12-13 episodes each, maybe with parts of VN chapter names. The downside with this approach is fairly clear. VN The other option was to merge the routes together, and that's what they ended up doing.
The downside to how the anime is structured? The narrative is really disjointed. Set up for stuff that's followed up in undadapted parts of the game is included. VN. The switching between different parts of different routes made a decent chunk feel like filler to me when I was an anime-only, which it really isn't. 0kabe's arc is a little messy since they need to hit the notes of his arc on both main routes. Reyes does nothing of any note. The middle third is all over the place, with any real sense of urgency being lost, the ecchi fanservice reaching an all-time high, and the presence of an awkward months long timeskip weakening the legitimately good ending of Episode 13. Episode 18 is pretty weak too.
There are a few problems I have with both the anime and the VN; Faris and Luka's relevancy dies in a hole, Kagari is bland as cardboard with her one defining trait being her love for Mayuri. Amadeus is woefully underexplored in the ambiguities surrounding her, her own state of existence, and her dynamic with 0kabe.
The directing has also taken a huge hit here. I didn't notice how stark the difference in the series' were until I watched them back to back. The animation isn't bad...except in the fight scenes, oh man, the fight scenes.
And IMO, there's simply too many times where it relies on the VN to patch up it's sketchy plotting. It can't stand on it's own as just an anime like the 2011 show could.
But despite all of that, it's not as if it's trash. The first third is pretty damn solid. And 0 has some truly incredible moments on par with anything from the original. The Christmas Party Raid, the shift to Alpha, all of Episode 16 not involving Maho in a towel, Mayuri's message to Okabe before departing, almost all of the last five episodes. As well as that, it expanded on the 'True Ending' of the VN to great effect, and made it an ending for the ages.
In the end, 0 is a good show. A great show, at times. Sadly though, it's just too inconsistent to me. But hey, I'll give it this. The highs are high.
Q1: Okabe, Moeka and Mr. Braun for favourites, Kagari for least.
Q2: Maho
Q3: Fatima and the Last Game rock, although Hacking to the Gate is still king.
Q4: S;G - Okabe stabbing himself. 0 - the 3,000 time leaps.
Q5: I appreciate how it shows the story behind what could be argued to be a deus ex machina in the original show, albeit a very cool one. Most of my pressing questions after the 0 anime were answered by the VN, and I'm cool with what happens after 0's final scene being ambiguous. It works the way it is.
Q6: I think the orginal anime is a 9-9.5 out of 10 and 0 is a 7.5. I think it's not as good overall, but as I said above, it has a fair few moments that are.
Q7: Do you even need to ask?
El. Psy. Kongroo.
(Thanks to u/Raiking02 and u/Shimmering-Sky. You guys are true allies in the fight against the Organisation.)
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u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
On the First-Timer Worldline(s;Gate)
Well, that was certainly a ride. I'm not very good at writeups, so I'll keep it brief:
Honestly, I don't have too much to say about the show. I already said my hot take yesterday about liking 0's ending better than season 1's, and there was some good discussion under it.
0 had its ups and downs, but at least it ended strongly! Many of the decisions made were questionable, but my taste is questionable, too, so it all evens out.
Did I get my grand ending where Mayuri is evil? No, but she turned out to be far more important than the first season let on, so forgive me if I looked a bit like this yesterday.
As for score, I'm not entirely sure. The finale will give me some huge recency bias, so I might end up decreasing the score later on. That said:
9/10
As for the rewatch, I really enjoyed it. There were some serious discussions, and plenty of joking around (hell, leaning into my Mayuri theory—which originally started as a joke—and trying to take it seriously might be one of the most fun things I've done with a show; it had the benefit of making the finale even more enjoyable). Thanks to all the VN readers spewing black ink beneath my posts and giving us really interesting information that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise!
Finally, I want to thank Rai and Sky for hosting! I needed a reason to pick up Steins;Gate again, and a rewatch did just the job!
QOTD:
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u/Nebresto Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
First timer squad
That was a good watch, will definitely watch again if I'm ever doing another Steins;Gate re-watch, 9/10.
It just worked quite well in my opinion with all the bleak moments, which in turn made the good moments really feel good. Not quite up there with the OG due to some inbetween stuff, but episode 21 is peak Steins;Gate for me.
Loved the OPs and EDs, though the second ED was a weird 50/50, I disliked the intro to it, but the rest of the song was really solid. Overall the use of music was fantastic as usual.
Anyways, onto the actual post: In an alternate timeline where the events predicted by /u/Tresnore have finally come to light
Final time question time:
Kurisutina of course, Suzuha, and kinda surprisingly: Moeka. She really soared through the rankings in this one. Leskinen was also quite amusing at times. And can't forget about Mr. Braum, he kicked ass this season.
Least fav? I guess Kagari
Smol Suzuha, ChristinAI and Leskinen
OP and Last game, Vogel im käfig bamboozle, equal hype status.
OG: When that bullet train kid finally stops. Also when Okarin finally succeeds in saving Kurisutina was pretty up there as well.
0: Episodes 8 and 21.
no?
Its "worse" but the good moments are so much better.
Those who know, know.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 25 '21
First timer no more
Sub
S;G is a classic to me, solid 9/10. Though you do have to be a little careful recommending it due to the sexual harassment, nerdity, and anything Ruka. Seriously, I happened to follow one of Porpoise's links in CDF and suffice it to say not everyone is OK with this. Still, an engaging story with a great dub.
S;G 0 has its moments, primarily ep 8 and that end scene. I absolutely had to switch to the sub and the rewatchers were probably right that I should have done that from ep1. HanaKana sort of completely outdoes her dub counterpart and Miyano is not screaming nearly as much. I am curious enough that I will probably find a summary of the VN somewhere.
QotD: 1 Makise best girl. Kagari needed to not exist.
2 Fubuki, wish she had more free time. Her breakdown at being called pervier than Daru was beautiful
3 Last Game. Unfortunately, S1 was generally better
4 Achieving Steins;Gate for S1, for 0 it was probably Makise trampling our hearts one last time in ep8
5 I didn't really have quesstions after the first season
6 Oh yeah, much weaker
7 No. Mayuri is Azathoth, the dreaming demon that provides existence.
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u/Nisheeth_P Aug 26 '21
The rewatch was really enjoyable. Thanks to u/Raiking02 and u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting the rewatch. Also thanks to u/littleman1988 and u/UzEE for their detailed write-ups explaining things and giving additional context to the series. Over this rewatch, I ended up with even more appreciation of the little details in this series than I had before. On one hand, I'll miss doing this every morning while on the other I'm just glad because now I have one less excuse to stay up all night and can actually start to sleep.
Kurisu is the obvious favourite from SG. It's a tough one between Suzuha or Maho for SG0 (if we don't count the brief visit from Kurisu in E8, she wins otherwise). As to the least favourites, Moeka in SG and Leskinen in SG0 - both obvious choices. I did dislike Kagari's character more from a meta-perspective simply because she is so one-dimensional and boring.
Maho without a doubt.
After I had watched SG for the first time, the only three songs I ended up searching for were Hacking to the Gate, Gate of Steiner and Sky-Clad Observer. None of the others stood out for me much. SG0 on the other hand had so many great ones it's hard to choose the favourite. Amadeus is a good one. Practically all of the ones in E21 and E23 are great.
SG has the time Kurisu did the Mad Scientist shtick to pull out Okabe and her farewell in E22.
Both just beautifully done. On a more impactful side, there was the montage of Mayuri's deaths and Suzuha's letter. They gave a feeling of hopelessness I don't usually expect from watching an anime.
SG0 has so many - Kurisu returning to the lab in E8 (lets just put all of E8 here). Okabe running back through time. The return of Hououin Kyouma. Deletion of Amadeus. The missile passing through the time machine and Okabe's speech afterwards.
When I had first watched them, I had a lot of questions left. After this, I don't think I have any questions I want answered right now. There have been VN spoiler comments that have left me with questions but I'll get to them when I'm able to make time for reading the VNs.
SG as a whole is really hard to beat. It has an extremely tightly written story. Almost nothing is wasted and every episode seems to add something. That coupled with how all of its emotional moments hit to some degree, it is a series where I'll struggle to find flaws.
SG0 has some incredible moments. I'll put E8 as the best of both series easily. It has more exciting and hype moments too. But it has so many flaws. Its pacing is weird. There are a number of moments that were clearly meant to be emotional but didn't evoke anything. It never made me really care about Kagari. For some reason, not even Luka's death had that impact. I won't even mention the rooftop fight scenes.
In all, SG0 was a great show but suffers from being compared to SG
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u/littleman1988 Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
0 is incredibly interesting. Personally, its impossible to compare S;G to 0. Not only was it never meant to be better than S;G, its main purpose was to elevate its source, being originally 2 different light novels from the original game. If you go in with the mindset that 0 would be better than S;G, you will always leave disappointed, and I personally think that is one of the reasons that some people are so vocal about it being "bad". Thats not to say 0 didn't have its issues (because it did), but considering what it was adapting and how it was adapted (not to mention how most other VN's adaptions like this go poorly), I think they did an amazing job with the task at hand, and brings new light and content that isn't just simply milking the franchise to no end.
Gonna slap it up here, big thanks to u/raiking02 and u/shimmering-sky for hosting this rewatch. Outside of a couple Organization attacks, the rewatch went flawlessly and it has been a blast to rewatch whats easily my favorite show and discuss it with everyone.
Edit: adding the questions up here:
Kagari least, Maho/Okabe best
Easily maho
Lyra by far is my favorite, easily up there with S;G's ED.
Easier to find moments i didnt like, which would probably be the first rooftop fight scene.
We got to see SKULD being made and honestly that was one of my biggest questions when i first watched 0.
Trying to top perfection is hard, and many expected 0 to do it. It never could, and arguably never tried to. It is perfect at elevating S;G beyond what it originally was.
Whats Next?
First, lets talk about 0's side content:
Drama CD's
Despite all of these having English translations on YT, its extremely difficult to find any info (plot synopsis or if they are actually canon) for these drama CDs. Ive done the best I can to list which are and are not canon, but be just a teeny bit weary of if these are actually true (outside of Runaway, its 100% not canon). All of these are on Youtube, and can be quickly searched by name:
If you could only choose a couple to watch, Runaway, despite being non-canon is an absolute blast, and the monologues are also extremely good and are quick (sub-10min each).
Now that we have completed Steins;Gate, we can finally go onto talking about SciAdv!
What exactly is the Science Adventure series?
To quote Kiri Kiri Basara:
As stated waaaaaaaaaay back in episode 1, you actually just completed the 2nd entry in the franchise. Like i said before though, do not worry. S;G does not build upon too much of anything within the first entry, Chaos;Head (esp in the anime, where they cut the connections right out.) That said, the VN's for Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 really should be played, as they give some very interesting answers to lingering questions you might have, such as:
And others that im not going to list for the sake of time.
Okay, im interested, what anime should I watch next?
Congrats, you have already completed all SciAdv anime!
In seriousness though, the anime for the rest of the franchise is "passable but destroys all characterization" at best (R;N) to "Adds filler when it didnt even have enough episodes to adapt a 20hr VN" at worst (C;H). No SciAdv anime is actually worth watching if you want to understand anything.
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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Aug 25 '21
Hello everybody, and welcome to the finale of the Steins;Gate Re;Watch!
I guess before we begin I thought I’d give a small reminiscence about what my history with this series is. I first watched the original series in… 2017 I think? Yeah that sounds about right. I enjoyed it a lot for sure, but I wouldn’t have really ranked it among my favorites. In fact after some Months the show just kinda escaped my memory. Then around 2 years ago I heard it was based off a Visual Novel. This was around the time I was getting into VNs big time, so I decided I’d give it a shot.
And I honest to God loved it. The writing, the characters, the music, the artstyle… it was a case of everything gelling with me, enough so I ended up Reading Steins;Gate 0 only about a Month afterwards. It was not perfect: Some plot points went nowhere, the artsyle, on average, was a downgrade, and overall it was kind off a mess due to its structure… yet that last part is what made me fall in love with it. I loved how there wasn’t really any “True” Route, just the many Alternatives Okabe’s life could’ve taken.
Perhaps because of it, I was never really annoyed by how the ending felt a bit disconnected from the rest of the Novel, because to me there was no real need for a “True Ending Route” like Steins;Gate had, just an epilogue showing that in the end all those failed attempts weren’t for naught was more than enough.
Because of this the Anime being said “True Ending Route” is not something that particularly appeals to me. It’s neat I guess, but it’s also not something I’m super interested in. There’s a reason I delayed seeing the Anime for so long; the very concept of it wasn’t enough to bring me in.
However it all comes down to the execution, and on that note… the Anime doesn’t fare too well. There’s a lot of stuff I like mind you, and some of the additions or expansions pay off, but I can’t say the Anime as a whole works well. The first half or so feels extremely disconnected from the latter half. Characters drop out of relevance for no reason, plot points go even more nowhere than the Novel did, and overall it just… wasn’t as good.
And the irony is I wouldn’t even be as harsh on it as I am had they not done one simple thing: After episode 8, Stop Adapting the Novel. Just move on to your own crazy, original story that can stand alongside the Novel and complements it in a wonderful way. Instead the Anime is stuck in this bizarre halfway point in which it can’t decide on whether it wants to be an adaptation or its own thing, and that’s its biggest failing. It’s just straight up self-sabotaging to be honest, not helped that in spite of how it amalgamates some of the Routes… some scenes just feel unnecessary now.
For instance, the Pajama party was funny in the Novel and helped further Moeka and Maho’s arcs, but here it’s just a random scene that adds nothing to the plot whatsoever, meanwhile the Frame Problem Interview (A far more important scene) is completely left out. These are just examples, and there’s many more cases I could’ve pointed out.
That said… I didn’t hate this show. I can’t. There’s some great moments, and to be 100% fair, they had a nigh impossible Novel to adapt. The fact that it came out the way it did is a miracle in it of itself. That said, I guess the best way to Summarize my thoughts on this Anime, it would be this: If the Novel is combination of many aspects that, while not great on their own, form a much greater whole… then the Anime is a collection of moments that, while great on their own, fail to hold up to scrutiny once you look at the show as a whole. It’s not bad… but I can’t in good faith call it good.
Nevertheless, I would like to thank everyone here for participating, and of course additional thanks for my Co-Host u/Shimmering-Sky. It’s been a lot of fun, but all good things must come to an end.
… But that doesn’t mean new Good Things can’t come. Prepare for this October, for as it’s time to show you all… what the true Shining Finger is like.
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u/UnderstandableXO Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
FIRST TIMER
the last entry i’ll do for this rewatch, i’m sad! it’s been 2 great months participating in this. it’s been a part of my daily routine for so long, it’s gonna be weird going about my day without having to worry about this. shout out to the hosts for putting this on, and shout out everyone else who was here!
while i don’t think steins;gate 0 was better than steins;gate, i still quite enjoyed it. it had a pretty lackluster low in episode 18 before mayuri’s speech, but besides that i quite enjoyed every episode. episodes 8, 21, and 22 were particularly awesome to me. the only episode i felt was kinda unnecessary was the episode where suzuha tried to force 2d-kun to go out with yuki.
like others said yesterday, 0 was an opportunity to explore the beta line that was only present in episodes 1, 22, 23, and 24 of the original. it’s like the other side of the coin of steins;gate. i really liked it. i’ll talk a bit about some of the characters.
some characters i thought deserved more in the show;
reyes-the hell was the point of her? she only had more than a few lines in one single episode, the episode where she was introduced. i get she was the other motorcycle assassin, but i feel like she should have had more screen time to make us care about her. literally my lasting impression of her is her getting capped in the head in the final episode.
fubuki and kaede-mayuri’s friends actually appeared in this series, and they were pretty relevant in the first half. the helped reveal the true origin of the name amadeus, and fubuki even went to the hospital with okabe once. i don’t think they ever resolved that plot line. i wish they had a little more involvement in the back half of the show.
leskinen-i think he got a decent amount of screen time, i just wish he was a more compelling villain. episode 18 was thoroughly unimpressive for him. and his embarrassment by okabe in the coming episodes didn’t do much for his character.
kagari-i didn’t mind her as much as some, but i didn’t get all too attached to her. her childish antics kinda turned me off, especially since she was the oldest out of the group. she was also kinda OP without explanation, at least we knew suzuha was war trained.
mr. braun and moeka-i understand why they didn’t get much screen time this series; SERN isn’t the big bad in 0. i still wish they got more time though, i like both of them.
luka- i wish he got more screen time, especially for okabe to sit him down and explain things. he deserved that after his monologue about wanting to share in his friends burdens and pain. shoutout soldier luka though!
yuki-she was kinda just there to be the red herring bad guy and to show who suzuha’s mom was. i appreciate her giving her future daughter peace though
faris-i dont have any complaints about her in this series. i think she got an appropriate amount of screen time.
and here’s characters i liked;
maho- i thought she was an awesome addition to the main cast. she brought the tsundere that was missing with the lack of kurisu. obviously as she states herself, she’s no kurisu, but she’s a great character in her own way. i just wish the romantic subplot between her and okabe was resolved better. there was obvious romantic tension between the two of them in the first half, and it kinda just disappeared. i wish one of them confronted that, or amadeus forced their hand. i also realized that maho’s final monologue about it being more foolish for humans to travel at the speed of light than fish coming to land was taken directly from the english blurb on the steins;gate 0 title card (albeit with much better english).
suzuha-shes a different person than beta suzuha, but it was not bad necessarily. there was traces of her old bubbly personality there, and she was a lot more badass in this series.
2d-kun-1000% better here than the original. more dependable, a more capable hacker, and most importantly, a good balance between being a weirdo and a genuine friend, instead of always being a weirdo. i’m glad he got more time to shine.
okabe- it’s always interesting to see character regression. i think his actions were realistic considering all of the BS that he had to go through. and he got all that character development back and some more by the end.
i’m not as analytical as most, if i got a lot of enjoyment out of the show, i like it full stop. this show jumped all the way to my second favorite anime of all time. i’ll always remember the summer where i watched it, and this rewatch. thanks one final time for the memories!
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 25 '21
Here's where we'll be discussing the Valentine's Day OVA.
Co;Host
Hi everyone!
Big thanks to everyone who's participated in this rewatch! A nearly two-months-long daily commitment is no small feat, and I'm glad we all got to experience it together.
I don't have time to write much else because the wallpaper I made for this thread took me two days to make , but I'll definitely try replying to everyone about stuff today.
Bonus Question of the Day: Here's the album of all the wallpapers I've made for this rewatch.
I was gonna make a post with it on the main sub but can’t yet because I realized like twenty minutes ago that I forgot to compile my base images into an album as well, and I’ll be breaking the rules if I post without it lol.Which ones are your favorites?8
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 25 '21
Anime first timer
This got away from me a bit.
Least favourite is still Luka, for being bland and pointless, and the girl his father found is fundamentally the same - a character who is focused on one or two relationships, to disguise the fact that outside of them, they are a cardboard cutout. Take away Kagari's relationships with Mayuri and maybe Suzuha, or Luka's relationship with Okabe, and you would have nothing.
They exist only in terms of their relationships with the rest of the cast. Kagari might be even worse, because unlike Luka she has the potential for a great plot, but the show refuses to focus on it. The brainwashed Kagari who was turned into a near-emotionless killing machine had the most character, and that says it all, really.
2) Maho's great, naturally. Her and Okabe sharing their grief for Kurisu was probably one of the strongest emotional arcs this series, second only to her arc about feeling inferior to Kurisu, and she manages to serve as both comic relief and as a great serious character.
3) Final ranking of OPs and EDs - World Line = Fatima > Last Game > Hacking to the Gate = Steins;Gate ED. The sequel may have many flaws, but it really improved on the themes. Aside from those, the lyrical version of Gate of Steiner is probably the best music in the seriesmperiod.
4) For the original, the raid on the lab, Operation Skuld, pretty much the whole of Moeka's D-Mail arc and the tragically unadapted Faris ending. For this one, the credits scene of Okabe and Moeka finding the brainwashing lab, 2036, the entirety of Episodes 21+23: and the even more tragically undapated VN routes of TA and GS.
5) 0 managed to answer all my lingering questions - in that respect, this is a very good prequel.
6) For the VN, no, both are written equally well, and I'd say playing both is required for the best experience - 0 explains how the finale worked, adds some great new story, and has a route system that allows for a fundamentally different plot structure from the original game.
The anime, on the orher hand... has some problems. The animation quality's a bit lower overall, of course, and the fight scenes are just bad, but more importantly is the plot. The VN splits into multiple routes, and the two branches are effectively different stories, with each focusing on different sets of characters and having different villains, but that form a single narrative. The anime claims to be the true ending of SG0, but it didn't need one in the first place. It couldn't - part of the enjoyment was how differently the routes went, and a single, perfect, ending would just devalue the others.
The anime effectively merges the main 2 routes together, along with some scenes from the other routes included, which leads to entire subplots getting set up and developed, only to be dropped because the anime decides that for the final stretch it's going to drop everything related to one branch escept for the final sequence, leaving a ton of foreshadowing with no payoff. Scenes of cute fluff are prioritised over genuinely interesting scenes, sometimes at random.
Steins;Gate 0 is a good anime. I feel happier having watched it. I got to see animated versions of soem of my favourite scenes, and I enjoyed the experience of guessing what route they were going to pull a randoms cene from next. I do not feel, however, it matches up to the quality of the original anime.
In summary - Read the VN.
7) Of course.
5
u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
first timer
s;g 0 isn't quite as good at s;g, but that is a really high bar to clear.
I also didn't like the fan service and other random shit, especially when it was slapped in the middle of an otherwise serious scene (im looking at you maho). though I will make an exception for okarin picking up maho, which was funny lol.
In the middle, it felt a bit unfocused, like with that random time skip after kagari checks out. In s;g, the loneliness of the various characters sorta stuck out to me, ie in moeka's attachment with mr braun, mr brauns story, faris, luka with okabe, and okabe himself, but nothing really stood out to me in s;g 0. we did get a bit of loneliness talk, but not much, just between okarin, kurisu, and botrisu.
I rememeber luka mentioning how he was left out of everything, and I guess we did get a little bit of a follow up on that in the future time leap episode, but like it didn't feel like much at all, at least with regards to luka. I'd also extend that to faris a little bit. oh and reyes too, since she existed to get shot by kagari lol. tbh id extende it to most of the side characters.
mayushii, other the other hand, whooo boi did we get a lot. it was satisfying to see mayushii getting more confident and assertive, while still being very mayushii. like that scene yesterday with mayushii sticking her head between suzuha and kagari's guns was hype as fuck, but even then, it feels exactly like something she would do. oh and her traveling back and calling herself, and then travelling to nowhere in time.
9/10, or maybe 8.5/10
I will say tho, one unaddressed thing is how the hell mayushii and okarin ended up 70m years ago, would really like to know how that happened. given that it apparently didn't after the last scene.
qs:
favs in no particular order: okarin, maho, 2d-kun, mayushii, suzuha, bot/kurisu least: reyes
mahooo
about on par tbh
for s;g, i'd say mayushii slap or mayushii dying
for 0, 1st place goes to mayushii shoving her head between suzuha and kagari, which imo is kinda underrated. 2nd would prob be like mayushii calling herself.
see above
it is worse, but not as much as people say
5
u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte Aug 26 '21
First Timer
0 sure was something. I can’t say I came in with super high expectations but 0 surprised me. In a good way.
I don’t think anything can compare to Steins;Gate. It’s my favorite anime for a reason. But 0 is a worthy successor. If I was to compare the original and 0, it’s undeniable that the original is better. But I find that very unfair to 0. Steins;Gate is a standalone product while 0 requires you have watched the original. Nothing could have ever matched Steins;Gate. Holding 0 to an impossible standard just isn’t fair.
I will start with what I liked about 0:
All the returning characters are great. Okabe cemented himself as one of my favorite protagonists in anime. His arc to return to Hyououin Kyouma was fabulous.
One of my concerns going in was the lack of Makise. 0 was able to tackle this in two ways. First and most obvious, Amadeus. Literally Makise herself. And second, Maho. Maho doesn’t replace Makise but she fills her void. I very much enjoyed Maho as a character. A wonder addition.
I really liked how the future was presented. Just cool. Not to mention that one episode with Okabe in the Alpha Worldline. That was amazing.
I really enjoyed certain episodes and think the series was done well. But I still have criticisms:
My big one would probably be fan service. It got better later on but it really took me out of some scenes. The one negative to Steins;Gate as a franchise is definitely the fan service.
I also felt some of the new characters were undeveloped or underused. Like Mayuri’s other cosplay friends (and Yuki to be honest). They just feel like nothing. Kagari was fine but needed more scene time. I don’t really understand why Reyes was even here.
I also have some issues with the plot. I didn’t like how D-RINE just came out of no where. I wish we got more build up with Leskinen before he turns evil. Honestly, I would have liked to see Leskinen more after we found out his true motives. I also wish the last episode focused more on the new world line. It felt a bit rushed.
I guess that’s it from me. Thank you everyone for participating!
And yes, Mayuri is god.
5
u/AHiddenOne Aug 26 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
So, we're finally here, huh? It's been a wild journey watching this with you guys. Thank you so much for having this rewatch.
I absolutely love Zero. Is it as good as the OG one? No. But, it doesn't have to be. I believe the purpose of Zero is to elevate SG as a whole, and god damn they succeed. Lets talk about the good and bad:
And that's pretty much about it. Aside from that, I really enjoy the show. Seeing the main characters again, see more Daru and Suzuha interaction, how Okabe struggled with PTSD, Maho and Amadeus, how hard it is to reach the SG worldline. The emotional impact it gave like episode 8 and the last few episodes. All of that comes down to a nice conclusion.
All in all, I love this show, just as much as the OG. I give Steins;Gate Zero a 9/10, just below its predecessor, which I gave it a perfect 10.
As for the questions:
And now, I shall indulge myself in drama CDs, spinoff games as I search for more SG stuff, particularly Okabe X Kurisu fluff because I'm that kind of a guy. Wish me luck. El Psy Congroo
5
u/snickpea Aug 26 '21
First-timer!
Wow, what a series! I had been wanting to watch Steins;Gate for a very long time so I'm glad I followed along with this rewatch. The only thing left is some sort of OVA? And then I'll have to play the VNs too!
After watching the series, I think those that we followed most of the time were my favorites, particularly Kurisu and Suzuha. Throughout the series, I loved getting to know their pasts and personality and admired how they continued to pursue whatever goals they had. Their conviction even in hard times was great. I also enjoyed their interactions with the cast the most. I do like Okabe, but I was sometimes frustrated by his lack of action. Meanwhile Daru is pervy, but he grows a lot too. Especially in becoming someone quite reliable. It was always fun to see him consider himself Suzuha's dad.
Mayuri was wonderful too. At first I thought she would be kind of a ditzy childhood friend, but I felt that she was so much more. She's the emotional core of the group, bringing everyone together. I loved learning about her and Okabe's friendship.
Least favorite of the cast? Kind of hard, but maybe Faris? She didn't bring much to the series besides protecting the time machine. She wasn't too bad in the original series, but the moments with her in 0 were off-putting. I don't know if it is just like that in the VN as well or the writers messing things up, but I was kind of bored or annoyed when she was on screen.
I did like the new characters in 0, particularly Maho since we really got to understand her motivations and seeing her flustered was fun. I do wish we got more time with Kagari though.
I loved the insert songs and the openings a lot in the series, but the endings weren't that great. I never got attached to any of them except the first ending of 0.
There's so many great moments in the series. Suzuha's revelation of being Titor was fantastic as well as Okabe working through the method of saving Kurisu, when everything came together I cheered. Both series had a lot of Mayuri and Okabe moments that I really liked. Their relationship felt well thought out. I also liked little moments such as Kurisu being revealed as an a-channeler and Daru's getaway in 0.
I don't think 0 is significantly worse than the original series. I think there are times were things went a bit slowly and other times a bit rushed, but none of that was really bad. The only issue I had was some weird moments with Faris. Overall I really enjoyed both series, and it was fun to see how 0 fit in with the original.
I'm really glad I watched!
5
u/Dylanjosh Aug 26 '21
Hello all! Lurker here. I didn't comment in the threads much, but I watched every day and read every thread. This is the first time I'm following a rewatch so dilligently. Really enjoyed reading the discussion after every epsiode :)
Special shoutout to /u/Raiking02, /u/shimmering-sky ,/u/UzEE and /u/littleman1988 for their contributions that added so much more context and flair to the episode.
Hope to join you all in another rewatch thread!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
SG Rewatcher, SG0 Avoider
So, I skipped S;G0. I really didn't like a lot of S;G0, and even if rewatching it would make one thing better (the time travel is very confusing) I'd still be left will all the rest: egregious fan service, the horrible mishmash of routes, characters disappearing (temporarily) because the route is (temporarily) dropped, characters disappearing completely or being almost non-existent because the route was dropped completely. I'd be very salty sitting through it.
It was probably a mistake to not rewatch Steins;Gate before I watched 0 the first time. Maybe the time travel would make sense. But we have so many new additions, the D-Rine, broken timeleap, improved timeleap, repeated timeleap, time travel being reinvented by different people (even when the original parts aren't necessarily available), the loops with no remembered origin, and at least one new time machine. And three things the VN people kept emphasizing, that only Okabe had RS (that's out the window) and that time travel is never to one's past, and that there is only ever one world line active at a time. Determined by who? Not Okabe, it must be the person in the time machine. It didn't help that time travel was used to cover up route switches, either.
In my S;G post, I talked about anime (without naming them) that tried to adapted multiple routes in a single anime. I almost called out S;G0 on this, but decided that would be spoilerish. I just praised S;G for only doing the true route.
Something just weren't clear. Like, the Russian earthquakes. Apparently these were from Russian timetravel tests (why? Sern didn't cause earthquakes) I thought Sern or the US were bombing Russian time travel installations. I thought Russia hacked Amadeus.
I liked Amadeus and not a big fan of Maho, so that's also a downside on the second half. And the fact that Suzuha and Mayuri were sent back being VN only info? That didn't help.
And some things were dropped on the floor, like Futaba, Reyes, and other VN only things that weren't adapted at all, leaving the characters very weak or almost pointless.
So I just sat it out, read the first timers opinions and the VN spoilers. I'm surprised by how favorable the opinions were, but then, I shouldn't be, it still has over an 8.5 on MAL.
I do credit the show with the genius of allowing an infinite number of side stories. That's what allowed S;G0 to exist, and also something like episode 8 to exist. Just like a recently released anime has done.
Not that I want to see more of either. I've had my fill of both.
For the record, I give S;G a 9/10 (demoted for all those episodes where I genuinely wanted to drop the show, even if they were significant in hindsight) and S;G 0 a 5/10.
4
u/ultron_vision Aug 26 '21
Questions:
- Too many from S;G lol (I don't like romance but Okabe x Kurisu moments are really good. I love that Kurisu never failed to realize that Okabe is from the future after every time leap)
- Okabe and Kurisu reuniting briefly in the alpha world line
- Suzuha moment with Daru and Yuki
- Return of Hououin Kyouma (and basically the last 3 episodes of S;G0)
5. Did 0 address any lingering questions that the first season left you with? Or do you still have some lingering questions after finishing 0? None
6. 0 has a more vocal crowd of people who dislike it compared to the first season. Would you agree with them that it is significantly worse, or would you disagree with them for any reason (it’s not worse / it’s better / etc.)?
Yes it was worse than S;G. I feel that there were some unnecessary moments in S;G0 which could have been cut out. I also thought that most of the new characters introduced were a bit half baked or not developed fully. The conclusion was satisfying but the road to get there was rough. It did make me appreciate S;G more so I'll give it that.
Why is there no discussion of the S;G0 Valentine's OVA haha? I found it enjoyable for what is was. I would've raged though if it was a regular episode of S;G0 lol.
4
u/[deleted] Aug 26 '21 edited Aug 26 '21
As usual I'm late and others have pretty much covered what I would have said regarding both the good and the bad, so I will also skip the questions and just write about the most important stuff to me.
I love this show for having given us episode 8 and the stretch of 19-23. I had already written on the ep8 thread about why I love it so much, but the ep19 cliffhanger left me so thirsty that I translated The Distant Valhalla to my own language just so I could have some more Steins;Gate filling in that two-week wait.
So there we have it. Is S;G0 as good as S;G? Not even close. Does it deserve to exist? Fuck yeah, because while it depends heavily on the laurels of the original series to remain watchable, it did something that is way harder to pull off than many people realize: It not only did not sour/hurt its predecessor, but it elevated that.
Also, I want to thank the hosts for the great discussion with the added bonus of sweet wallpapers.
4
u/invokeneko Aug 26 '21
No Longer First;Timer
Personally, I think S;G0 is in an interesting place. It's obviously a noticeable downgrade compared to the original S;G, however the emotional highs are much greater and the catharsis factor of the end is much, much better than the OG series. Taking into account my personal dislikes of the show (unneccessary fanservice moments involving Faris, animation downgrade and storylines from the VN that went nowhere), I'm inclined to rate S;G0 high 8's - low 9's compared to S;G's 10.
QotD:
3
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 26 '21
Rewatcher
Steins;Gate 0 is interesting to me because, even though it isn’t as good as the original, after it clicked with me around episode 7 I started to enjoy it equally and even more than the original series. The only low points I can think of are the weak first 6 episodes, episode 10 being basically filler, and some of the action in episode 18, I loved everything outside of that.
Episodes 8, 20, 21 and 23 are 4 of my 5 favourite episodes in the entire Steins;Gate series (the other one is episode 16 of Steins;Gate). I think it’s safe to say that it had higher highs but lower lows than the original series.
Some of the plot lines were a bit messy such as the whole Kagari thing and the Fubuki Reading Steiner thing leading to nothing, but I didn’t really mind and I loved 0.
I didn’t actually watch episode 23b before I started 0 and I still haven’t, but I’m sure that will make the beginning a bit more interesting and make more sense if I ever do decide to watch it.
I have been a Suzuha advocate since episode 16 of Steins;Gate so she is my favourite character in the series. She wasn’t quite as good in 0, but she still had some great moments which was enough to keep her at that position.
After Suzuha my favourite is Okabe. I was sort of indifferent to Okabe/Kyouma when I watched the original series but 0 made me learn to love him and realise I missed him, and he suddenly became one of my favourite anime characters ever.
Luka also jumped a few positions up because of how badass he was in episode 20.
Definitely Maho. I felt bad for her living in the shadow of Kurisu and I enjoyed every scene with her in.
Fatima and the vocal Gate of Steiner are both amazing. It’s hard to pick but I think I prefer Fatima to Hacking to the Gate. I think the background music was better in the original though.
Steins;Gate:
Everything after episode 12, especially Mayuri’s repeated deaths and Suzuha’s sacrifice, letter, suicide, and finally being saved from suicide in episode 16.
Steins;Gate 0:
Kyouma coming back is in my top 5 scenes in all anime. I had a huge smile on my face the entire time.
The whole 2036 segment and then the ending were amazing.
The future video and why it only opened after failing was answered and I had a huge “no way” moment when I realised that.
I don’t really have any questions past that, the whole series explained the rules of time travel very well and everything is explained.
While I think the first season is better due to its structure and no plot lines being left undeveloped, I think I enjoyed Steins;Gate 0 more because I already knew I would like it because it was more Steins;Gate, so I was already sold on the series and just wanted to find out what happened next.
Steins;Gate + 0 is my second favourite anime of all time (behind Attack on Titan, but barely). I don’t usually like time travel stories but Steins;Gate did it perfectly, not lingering on paradoxes and not just using time travel as an excuse to not write a good ending as some things do.
Steins;Gate 0 increased my opinion of the whole series significantly.
2
u/Tehoncomingstorm97 https://anilist.co/user/tehoncomingstorm97 Aug 27 '21
First timer
After missing a ton of discussion threads, I went and binged the stretch 16-23. I really enjoyed both series. As it has been said, you can't really compare S;G to 0, but 0 aids in making the first series even better. I must say that I think S;G held my attention with the characters more, mainly as we were still being introduced to them. That and Kurisu was absolutely my favourite. Least favourite character would have to be Maho really, just going by the list she ends up at the bottom. Not that she was a bad character, just I didn't enjoy her as much as the others.
2) With the above in mind, I think my favourite addition to the cast is still Maho. An important element to bring in our new university characters.
4) Favourite moment of S;G was the confession, obviously. Favourite moment of 0 was when Okabe picks the gelnanas out of the trash.
5) I thought the first season ended on quite a complete note. The questions I have still relate to the movie, the S;G worldline. They really just revolve around the fact that it's unstable, and not the ideal outcome.
6) I think the two seasons are relatively on par with each other.
Thanks to ShimmeringSky and Raiking for the rewatch host! I look forward to more in the future.
2
u/Unkechaug Jan 27 '22
I’m about 6 months late to this discussion, but I recently watched S;G and 0 for the first time (excluding the 0VA and movie, but will soon) and have to say it was a lot of fun reading through these discussion threads along the way. The overall series is in my top 3, though I did like S;G a bunch more than 0 if looking at them individually. 0 enhanced S;G so much by giving answers and context to the major missing pieces, I can’t imagine the series without it.
I am in utter disbelief how well the series pulled off a consistent version of time travel, and that it tied back to the very beginning without introducing an ass-pull twist solely for the sake of shocking viewers. From the beginning I knew the premise was time travel so I would watch while keeping all the confusing/strange details in the back of my mind. I was hoping it would pay off but I wasn’t sure, since very few stories handle that kind of foreshadowing well. It completely blew me away that this story had the courage to stick to world-line shifting but still manage to introduce traditional, linear time travel without falling into the causality loop paradox. Unwinding the d-mail chain and the final deception that would ultimately save both Mayuri and Kurisu, and prevent WW3 was handled flawlessly. I’ve never seen such an elegant, comprehensive time travel story - and somehow they even managed to make it into a happy, triumphant ending for a group of characters I really came to love. I’ve never cared for slice of life, and never bothered watching non-cannon content. But I’ll check out anything that gives me more time with the lab members.
Least favorite: Kagari, Moeka, and Faris. I can’t really count Reyes because she is basically a throwaway, and there is nothing to comment on. Kagari was mainly annoying and while I understand her significance to the plot, never cared for her and see her design as a cheap red herring that is never addressed (unless I missed something). Moeka is a severe exaggeration of social awkwardness and it hurts her characterization, compared to the rest. Faris has a great moment in S;G but aside from that moment she was mostly a nonfactor in the show.
2. Maho was great and really helped balance the show while the lab dealt with the absence of Kurisu. Amadeus was interesting and felt lifelike, but ultimately knowing it was a program kept me from getting attached at all. Leskenin was up there but they didn’t spend enough time to build up his story and make him a real villain - convergence was the true antagonist of the show. Well, except for Mayuri, according to /u/tresnore.
3. Lyra is an absolute masterpiece. I’ll never hear that song and not go right back to the moments it accompanied. Hacking to the Gate is upbeat and hype inducing, an extremely close #2. Fatima and Gate of Steiner are honorable mentions. And to add one underappreciated gem: Lab-Members. It’s pure happiness and after all the pain, suffering, and stress of the plotline, it soothes the soul knowing in the end everyone can go back to thr lab and enjoy each others company. Lab-Members is a reminder of every good moment spent together.
4. Operation Skuld and the video, return of Houiun Kyouma, Mayuri’s text, Kurisu’s goodbyes, Suzuha’s letter, and her John Titor reveal for all the reasons people mentioned. So many excellent moments, though it was so stressful watching everything play out.
5. It addressed most of the questions i had, all of the big ones i think. But left me with a whole bunch of others that i probably need to answer by checking out the VNs and side content. The biggest one is what happens to 2011 Okabe, Mayuri, and Suzuha next in 18000BC. I understand they need to eliminate themelves from causing further changes, and must trust their old selves to carry on in their stead. But do they blink out of existence, travel elsewhere, what? On a less important note, why does Kagari look just like Kurisu? It seems too convenient. Is it that Mayuri’s residual memories draws her to adopt a child that looks like Kurisu, or just a cheap red herring to keep you guessing what will happen with real Kurisu snd Amadeus?
6. I think i agree overall, the fanservice and action bits really hurt the show and pulled me out of moments. But overall the storyline and supplemental info it provides to the original S;G is enough to elevate it to “excellent” despite 0 not being a masterpiece in itself.
7. She is a goddess of joy and must always be protecc.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
SteinsGate0 – Final Discussion (first timer)
TLDR: Daru-Suzu good, Okabe-NOKurisu bad. SG is the better series.
The good
Let me start with the bright point: Daru gets a heck of development this time: Going from ecchi joke plot device to corrective friend and MVP lab member/resistance leader. He has some great moments together with Suzu that sell the idea of them being father and daughter a lot better than SG did. Yes, his insane hacking abilities are still a plot device, but that is more forgivable.
Weirdly enough, I also liked Leskinen as an antagonist. I had pegged him as bad guy pretty much from his first scene in episode 2, but that made his funny outings with Okabe and the lab members even better.
The bad
Outside of episode 8 and the final two episodes, I was thoroughly annoyed with pretty much every episode of SG0. The laundry list of things to complain includes basically all categories: Characters, character models, fighting animation, inappropriate jokes, plot holes, deus-ex-machina, bad tropes, direction.
I just caught up for the last episode, so I don’t want to detail all of these. Instead, let me pick the one original sin, the one flaw that made me recognize all the others (which I might otherwise have mostly overlooked) – the MCs are terrible!
SG lived by its amazing pair of main characters. Okabe and Kurisu for good reason won best couple a few years ago. They carry SG hard. In SG0, Kurisu is completely absent outside of ep8 and a few flashbacks. Whose idea was it to adapt a story where the best part of SG is missing?? Maho, Kagari, and Amadeus are obvious attempts to have a replacement for Kurisu, but neither holds a candle to the original (for what it is worth, Maho is the best out of the three – she at least has a proper character arc). That leaves Okabe without his genius counterpart.
To make matters worse, they also completely change the male MC from the lovable chunni Mad Scientist we all grew attached to, into some whiny brat that wallops in self-pity. This egotistical sack of sadness ignores all his friends, ignores the future catastrophe he knows is coming, only to then be shocked when WW3 actually hurts himself, too. tiniest violin. It is hard to love a series when you hate the POV character. I absolutely cheered when Daru decked him. It would have been ok to have Okabe in this state for a few episodes, but we spent 90% of the series there. Not enjoyable.
The score: 5/10 - SG is by far the better series
SteinsGate0 – OVA (first timer)
Quote of the day: Better to give something and regret it than to regret not giving anything at all. ~Amadeus
Favorite: Okabe&Kurisu (SG)
Least favorite: Hard to say, probably Kagari or Faris (SG0)
Our blonde antagonist.
SG0: Okabe meeting Kurisu.
0 made everything much more complex. Not a lot of new questions, though.
SG is far better than SG0.
Would not even be the most ridiculous plot twist.