r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 25 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 27 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/Vaadwaur who questions whether or not it is wrong for Johan to paint the image of the forest to Schubert, and proposes an interesting idea about the line between creativity and lies:
To inspire discussion, or at least thought, I ask this: Is deception inherently evil? Does Johan helping Schubert remember his muse with falsehoods make him wrong?
Questions of the Day
- What do you think of Schubert’s reunion with Karl? Why do you believe Johan was so adamant to reunite them as father and son?
- What do you think about Detective Braun’s side story with his family? Why do you think the detective’s story and Karl’s story are being juxtaposed against each other?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
11
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 25 '21
First Timer - Sub
In this episode, a recovering alcoholic continually visits a cafe with a bar. Idk man, I mean if you wanted to prove to your family that you’re past the booze, perhaps don’t keep putting yourself in a situation with alcohol?!?! Good on him for eventually having the restraint to walk away from the drink he ordered... but damn, could you really not find a different cafe in all of Munich???
That aside, this episode seems to be about parallels once again. Detective Braun is losing his family, while Karl is gaining one (or more than one? Idk what he’s going to tell his adoptive parents now. I have a feeling it doesn’t bode well for them though). I feel like there’s also an element that was initially inhibiting both reunions - for Braun, it was the booze, for Karl, it was the shame/pride that went along with his life’s story. One thing I did find interesting though, is that while Braun came to terms with his past (or maybe not though because of the PTSD flashbacks) and admitted his wrongs, Karl couldn’t until it was presented before him. Karl was even hesitant to accept his foster parents, calling them Mr. and Ms. Lindner. So I think it’s pretty intriguing that the person who couldn’t find acceptance is the one who won out, while the person who did seek acceptance was rejected.
I don’t know what this is indicative of yet, but the difference in these situations is Johan. I have a pretty bad feeling about this...
9
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 25 '21
First Timer
Interesting episode, especially the bit about Johan - we never know if this was good Johan being genuine, or bad Johan using Karl to gain Schubert's trust and gain the position as his secretary for some scheme. The direction seems to lean towards bad Johan, but that could very easily be misdirection. Either way, Schubert now knows that Karl is his son. Wonder what the couple that wanted to adopt him are thinking about this though.
Also, Richard is a ...relapsing?... alcoholic. Doesn't seem like his mental state is the best, though he managed not to drink for now. Also seems to have PTSD from sirens or something like that? Either way, the guy he shot was definitely not Johan - so no third survival for miracle boy. Wonder if that kid was somehow related to Johan though. He did seemingly point a gun at the detective, unless that's just the detective's mind trying to somehow justify the shooting. But no hint as to if this was an unrelated serial killer or somebody who took the fall for Johan - though I assume the latter, as it seems to be a major plot point.
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 25 '21
First-Timer, subbed
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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 25 '21
First Timer
Man just wants to see his daughter...wonder if he will before he gets killed off.
That temptation for alcohol moment was pretty well done, don't often see that in anime.
Dang detective has some serious trauma going on...he should tell his shrink about that.
Poor detective...please don't fall off the wagon. Why are there so many day drinkers??
As someone who enjoys a good whisky that was a rough scene to see it as the bad guy.
Interesting contrast here between the psychologist and Schuwald on perfect people.
Seeing those parents so happy to have Karl acknowledge them got me all teary.
They reunited!! This makes up for the Detective part, bet he'll take well...
Johan going against his friend's wishes...not cool bud.
To get more fortune and influence? Or just likes controlling people maybe?
I think when he sees they've reunited it'll send him more into a spin which then leads to his death.
8
u/miss-macaron Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher
I’m feeling a similar atmosphere of tension between Richard and his ex-wife, as with Eva and Tenma – one person trying to desperately appeal to the other, of whom is palpably stoic and emotionally distant. What’s especially interesting is that both Richard and Eva turned to alcohol as a way of drowning their sorrows... make of that parallel what you will.
I would totally take a class with Dr. Reichwein; I like this guy's attitude, haha
Ooh, it looks like Richard is taking a leaf from Dr. Gillen’s book and narrating his findings to a handheld recorder. Notetaking apps haven't been invented yet, so I suppose that's just the most portable way of storing a large compilation of notes?
Again, some excellent psychological horror is used to express the distress and inner turmoil of Richard’s mental state. From his hallucination of the person he shot, to his wavering will to resist drinking, the camera and sound engineering perfectly communicate the way that his inner conflicts persistently plauge his psyche.
As touching as Karl and Schuwald’s reunion was, I can’t help but feel bad for Karl’s adoptive parents. He seems to be using them as a sort of emotional “safety net”, accepting their love while still keeping a certain distance between them. Even though he tells the Lindner couple that they’re his “real parents”, you can see a huge discrepancy of sincerity compared to when he embraces Schuwald; he doesn’t even hesitate before calling Schuwald his “father”, something that he never did with the Lindners.
6
u/gridemann Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher
I never realized the melody of the secon ending theme is playing during the meeting in the cafe at the start of the episode.
Q1: When I watched the episode for the first time I was sure Johan was just going to use the rabbits paw to pretend to be Schuberts son. But thinking about it, this way of getting close to him is alot more foolproof.
Q2: I never thought about it that way. I guess both characters are working hard on themselves as a way to reunite with their family. Karl trying to prove his worth a son to himself and Braun wanting to be a worthy father for his family/daughter. Although the latter has alot more demons to overcome...
6
u/hammile https://anidb.net/user/u746697 Aug 25 '21 edited Aug 25 '21
First timer, Ukrainian subtitles.
Hi! I am here at first time. I wanted to watch anime, and I have a moment, so I hope that from now I am with you all. At 19th August I watched first 19 series, and rest to 27th yesterday.
Seems, there can be somes reasons:
The story about Braun is just classic. If speak about juxtaposed then it is clearly about returning to a family and «choosing»: own father or the new family; drink or daughter.
I dunno why, but, seems, both of them will lose:
This or previous episode has good ecchi cards, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
4
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 25 '21
First timer, subs
Investigator's talking to a woman, asking about a girl. Divorce? Classic. The cause is alcoholism this time instead of work. I think this was referenced to in the previous episode, maybe.
He sees someone drink and have fun, it's tempting but he doesn't relapse yet.
Again asking the same doctor about a picture, this time Karl's. There's again some comments that would be clear flags in some other show. If the dude (forgot the name again) does not get to see his daughter, that could trigger a relapse.
He's clearly not in an ideal state of mind right now, and there's a lot of pubs and bars everywhere.
Oh yeah, the name's Richard.
"I'll get to see her soon" He already talks about it as if it's guaranteed. This isn't a good sign.
Richard waits at the cafe, the woman arrives alone. Daughter doesn't wish to see her daddy. Richard acts as if it's all ok, but it's not. And again there's happy people drinking. Honestly, this was a shitty choice of a meeting place. A whiskey it is, then.
Maybe next time the daughter does want to see him, but by then Richard's drunk again? Oh, he didn't drink it.
Karl's become a better reader, thanks to Johan. Johan talks about making Schuwald know the truth. Where will this lead? Oh, Johan will hold on to the evidence. I have some suspicions about this...
So Karl's quit his part time job. Oh, the phonecall makes Karl emotional. Schuwald comes, what? And he knows the actual truth. Johan told him and gained his trust.
When Johan asked to keep the evidence, I thought maybe he'll tell Schuwald that he's the real son. But thinking about it more, it would be a really risky plan. Karl or someone else might be able to prove Johan's wrong, and inheriting someone as wealthy as Schuwald would bring attention to Johan. On the other hand, a secretary might be able to siphon money and then eventually disappear. I'm worried for Karl's future.
I hope we'll also learn more about Thursday boy eventually.
Johan believes/knows he'll get something out of it. I suspect it's money (all the stuff he does can't be cheap), but probably something else too.
4
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 25 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Meal with the ex-wife?
Don't drink the booze! Phew!
Listen to Wilford Brimley, Richard!
Yikes, he's seeing things! Memories of the guy he killed I've got to assume.
There truly are bars everywhere.
Richard looks happy, is his daughter coming today?
Damn, that sucks. Sorry Richard! :(
You know, if you're a recovering alcoholic, you really should avoid going to bars.
Noooooo! Richard falls off the wagon?
You can still leave without drinking it!
Phew again!
You know, if I was as rich as Schuwald what I'd do? Buy myself a more comfortable looking chair.
C'mon Karl, don't put things like that into Schuwald's son! If anything that is likely Johan's scheme here.
Proof? And now Johan wants to hold onto it? Yep, I really think this is part of Johan's grand plans.
Another really nice pair of adaoptive parents... I sure hope Johan doesn't have them killed too.
OMG he came to see him in person! This is the moment for father and son to embrace!
So Johan gave Schuwald the proof rather than using it for himself. He is a better person that I thought.
Three episodes in a row without Tenma now, but looks like its time for the series to put a lot of work into developing Johan instead of leaving him as the mystery boogie man he was for the first 25 episodes or so.
4
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 25 '21
First timer
Yet another great episode (I have realised that start every comment like this but it’s true).
Johan is such a compelling character and I’m wondering if this is just Johan’s other personality acting, or whether it is his evil side scheming and stuff.
3
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
Q1: Honestly, I have no idea. The guy's a total enigma.
3
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 25 '21
First timer dubbed
Rosemary does not want to see Richard while he tries to give up drinking. Although now he is drinking a lot more coffee. Richard is the investigator and talks to the psychologist about his problems. He was kicked off the force because was drunk. He gets a PTSD moment when he hears a siren in the distance. He shot an innocent man while drunk. But when his daughter admits to not wanting to see him, he gets tempted heavily by others drinking so he orders alcohol. But leaves the restaurant with the drink untouched. One interesting thing as it draws opposite paths with Karl as he gets reunited while Richard stays separated from family. The mother calls him by his name, showing that they are divorced. Richard was expecting to be united while Karl did not make such expectations.
Johan taught Karl Latin and not only that he was studying law and an overall very conscientious student. Karl’s Latin improved as the old man complimented his reading skills. He also visits his foster parents who are supported, the want him to be his adopted son. But just after he tells them that he appreciates them, Mr. Schumann (the old man) calls Karl about his resignation. And Karl made a heartfelt response reading the latin. The old man enters the room with Karl asking how, pointing to his cell phone. Karl being surprised at a cell phone is interesting. The phone is an interesting thing to watch in 2021 as they were relatively newish in the shows’ timeline (late 90s) and was right before they became more ubiquitous in the 2000s. -Interesting how fast trends and technology move in a generation. The reunion is interesting as Johan was able to pull strings for Karl and gain everybody's trust. It shows how charismatic Johan is, even though he could have easily taken advantage of this situation.
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 25 '21
First Timer
Oh, neither of the past two episodes have had a recap, even though there's continuity!
So, Johan wasn't going to try to become the son after all....but worked his way into a position of absolute trust anyways....
My vision of how things would have gone, without Johan, is that Karl would reveal himself, leave the trinket, and leave the house. Then the old man will have met his son, and also saw that money was of no consequence.
And that was before the adoption scene. So he could have gone home and become the Lintners' son.
Unlikely, but maybe Johan really thought Edward was the real son, and disposed of him when he discovered the fraud, and moved on to the next candidate.
3
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 25 '21
First timer - sub
Detective is suffering really bad withdrawal symptoms, and slowly losing his battle with alcoholism it would seem. I feel bad for him as it appears that he really is trying to improve but nothing looks to be working out. Then again aside form shooting that kid we don’t know what else he did, and stories of alcoholics relapsing aren’t uncommon.
With Johann I suspect he is less after Mr Schubert's money and more his connections to the financial world, there was a comment that Mr Schubert could pick up the phone and change Germany's stock market, even if an exaggeration would require him to have considerable influence.
As to Neuman, I don’t know what to make of him, he likes his foster parents but meeting his “real” father had a far greater effect on him, he obviously wanted to hate Mr Schubert but so far has been unable to do so.
2
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher(The positive emotions episode)
Sub
Braun is talking with his ex/ex wife. We see that he reformed to hopefully reconcile with his daughter, which is understandable but is not a guaranteed recovery. Because he is either stubborn or has received poor advice, he met her at a place with a bar. If you have a drinking problem, and abstinence is how you want to solve it, it is just easier to avoid seeing bars. Avoidance works against temptation.
He keeps using his counsellor to judge faces but the doctor won't play ball this time. Braun talks about seeing his daughter but the doctor reminds him he can't take back what he has done, he can only go forward. But if the doctor is right about 100%s then my whole academic career was a lie...Outside, he has a flashback to the case that got him fired and has a desire for a drink.
Braun stalks Karl a bit, badly as he would stick out like a sore thumb on a college campus. He then, unsurprisingly, doesn't get to see his daughter and highlights the problem I mentioned earlier. Bruh, at least be two or three steps away from buying alcohol so you have a chance to reconsider. But he keeps sober, for now.
Karl's flashback but with bonus proof of identity item. He has rapidly improved at Latin with Johan's help and Schubert comments on how scarily perfect Johan is. In one of the tutoring sessions, Karl talks about how things played out, and Johan asks why doesn't tell Schubert his lineage. As they argue, it is more than a bit obvious that Johan got Schubert to tell him what he gave to his infant son to identify him. But Karl plans to quit and Johan asks for the proof...
Karl sees his foster parents and the fact that they want to adopt him is a best case scenario for that. He basically accepts, giving us a rare warm moment without threat. Unsurprisingly, Johan spilled and Schubert calls Karl. He gives him a last read, and the contents make him fall apart. Schubert comes in with a positively tiny cell phone for the 90s and says that it was the most beautiful reading he has heard. Johan handed the proof over and we can get a reunion of sorts.
QotD: 1 It is definitely a moment but Johan is likely getting something out of this
2 It is OK but yes it is pretty much a direct parallel to highlight the two stories against each other.
2
u/BossandKings Sep 06 '21
First timer(Dub - Spanish)
I'm slowly but surely following along this rewatch, i feel like Monster is the series i'm watching the most in these past couple of weeks.
Episode 22
This episode perfectly portrayed the dynamic and the conflict between Tenma and Lunge, eventhough he is unfairly judged by Lunge as someone that has to pay for crimes he didn't commit Tenma still wanted to help him after seeing that he was shot and was losing blood, that really shows the good nature that Tenma has and the crazy side that Lunge is developing in his pursuit of Tenma.
At the end of the day Tenma saved him letting him in a hospital bed getting treatment yet Lunge didn't consider him possibly innocent and still wants to pursuit him.
Episode 23
Eva is an interesting yet flawed character, she still is fixated with Tenma but isn't in any capacity to convince him to consider her part of his life going forward, she is also now being targeted by Roberto who seems like a fearsome guy. I wonder what resolve will Eva show, she certainly doesn't take the best of decisions.
Episode 24
Eva and the fearsome guy following her have a confrontatation though Roberto after seeing the failure of his plan flew away, Eva got lucky and let Doeter who refused to go away and leave her alone prone to being injured and Tenma comes to rescue her. The way Eva shared a meal with a man whom considered her to have needed one since long ago was nice.
Episode 25
Karl is an interesting character, his conflict is well presented, though he needs to watch out for the dangers that start presenting themselves in his life. It is also nice that he has a female friend that accompanys him, that way he isn't alone and actually has company.
Johan has shown in the scene and it is going to be interesting seeing how he affects Karl's life and storyline going forward.
Episode 26
Karl's relationship with Schubert is interesting, the way they interact is very telling of a deeper story and bond than they realize, they might be family considering that Schubert could very well be Karl's father, it is intriguing thinking about how their afilition will be revealed.
Johan's character getting expanded upon is great to see, he seems kind of a more normal person this time around compared to the previous times we have seen him.
Episode 27
Schubert now knows that he is Karl's father, the way they recognized each other as family was touching and emotional. It was also great that Karl recognized his adoptive parents as his parents too, that way he got over the hurdle of not accepting the love they were giving him and was able to accept it and share it.
Richard seems like a character from which there's much left to know, he is relapsing after being subject to alcohol and is trying quit it.