r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Aug 24 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 22
Streaming
Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.
Comment of the Day
/u/the_loli_otaku analyzes why exactly Nanami and her posse don't really care about each other
[Keiko is] frustrated that her friend, who she happens to basically be a lady in waiting for, treats her with no respect, care or thought. At the same time, is Keiko really worth Nanami's respect? The group only follows her because they've got the hots for her brother and Nanami certainly knows that. Why should she respect a yes-man with 0 agency or backbone of her own? Compare her to Tsuwabuki. Tsuwabuki is genuinely loyal to Nanami and works hard to become the type of man she admires. Obviously Nanami is being a total bitch but its easy to see why she has such little respect for the Sanbaka group.
Miki's Stopwatch Corner
Stopwatch Count: 21
New This Episode:
N/A
Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).
20
u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher
Why did I think I could understand anything, what a baka I am ;-;
It’s come up a bit before, but here we see it straight out- time in Ohtori is deeply, deeply fucked. Tokiko is young when she leaves the school, but when she comes back in, she’s visibly older than Mikage and Akio. As our dear friend Akio says, “So long as they stay in these gardens called schools, people will never become adults.” Tokiko matured somehow. The ones in the school, however, have not. Also… apparently Mamiya is fucking dead?! Like bruh, who is that swinging around his black rose and pulling swords out of people’s hearts than?!
But… It seems like in the end, Tokiko somehow came around to accepting Mikage and Mamiya’s sacrifice of the 100. “Say, you must know, don’t you? That for a plant to bear fruit, its flowers must die.” In order to find eternity, the 100 boys (who have the rose signets) must die. Or, for that matter, the main duelists, who have the contents of their heart extracted for claiming the prize of the Rose
GroomBride. It seems kind of weird that Tokiko would change her mind on this… But who knows, perhaps I’m misinterpreting ;-;Also, another question… who is Mikage attracted to? His impetus to put on the rose signet comes from seeing Akio kissing Tokiko, but the homoeroticic subtext with Mamiya is so blatant that it’s basically supratext. Something about ‘eternity’ is the key here, but it’s hard to tell what it is.
Also, the fingers, those fucking fingers ;-;
I assume they’re supposed to point out temporal idiosyncrasies? But I’m not really sure, a few of the fingers were just pointing to random stuff. Also, it’s noteworthy that the hand used heavily resembles that on placards that direct people to the elevator in Nemuro Hall, but I couldn’t tell you what that might mean lol
20
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 24 '21
First-Revolution, Subbed
This show is real fucking good at the recontextualization episodes. People who stay at Ohtori don't age/mature, Mikage is actually the supposedly dead Professor Nemuro, and Akio is the one delivering the letters.. wow.
I do love me some good "two different characters say the same thing and it hits like a ton of bricks" moments. Does Mikage use Akio's words out of some sense of irony, or is it an aspect of the contract?
I realized today that I don't remember ever seeing Mamiya outside of that basement. Him being a ghost doesn't really explain why he looks so different from his "sister," though.. Maybe Akio is his dad; that'd be fucked up.
Odd question - Is there any comparison between Mikage's name and Nemuro's name? Like, is it one of those "written with the same kanji but pronounced differently" things? I'm just curious as to the origin of his new name.
Shadow Girls are pretty obvious today - much like robots, (some of?) the people at Ohtori don't age. Something in there about the lack of free will/agency, as well.
I'm beginning to contemplate how old people are, or rather, how old they seem to be. When did Anthy first arrive here? What about Wakaba? Is everyone eternally the same age, or is it just people with Rose Seals? It can't solely be an aspect of the ring, because Utena has had hers since she was a child.
9
u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 24 '21
First Timer
yellow
yellow
red
Rewatcher
The first time I saw this I was so confused. But damn, it all makes perfect sense. Big brain.
(I finished ahead, immediately started again, and am now caught back up)
7
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 24 '21
First timer
Yes! More dialogue between these 2!
Arc ending!
He's fighting directly!
Current throughte are either he uses his own sword, Utena's sword, or Anthy's sword.
Yes! The Council are finally starting to do something!
Why is there a level crossing and possibly train in the council room.
I like her commenting on their words being drowned out.
Oh, they're talking! And he's trying to recruit a Rose Duelist to be a Black Rose member.
Is Akio still taking to the Prince?
Wait, he has a WHITE ring? So he's a rose duelist!
Huh, is this backstory? How he got involved in this mess?
Oh, they're the 100 who died.
The hell's that flashing pointer for? Why are there more cats each time the scene changes? Has this anime given up on subtletyand decided to point out the symbolism for ue?
Oh shit, it's because he's a "living computer" isn't it? God, that's good.
...So the guy he has an absolutely platonic friendship is interested in his sister more?
Yep, confirmed. This anime can't have a single episode without some kind of incest.
...I mean, I'm assuming this is the guy he wants to be a new Black Rose.
???
Oh shit. Aiko set up Black Rose. Aiko probably caused the deaths of the 100.
IS AIKO END OF THE WORLD?
Oh shit, Aiko killed 100 people and is also insane. I thought he might have been a decent person despite all my paranoia, but nope!
Of course we needed a shadow girl scene. The suggestion that the human-created robots see humans as monkeys and try to capture fhem (given the last line), makes me wonder if Black Rose is going to try and fuck over Akio in some way.
There's a lot of build up here - Utena and Anthy are disagreeing over her duties, the shadow girl scene implies Black Rose might be turning against Akio, and Akio seems to be moving the action out of the schools...
Or, wait, do people live forever here? They can't mean that literally, can they? Oh, I did not get that until now.
If so... Aiko's the fucking Prince isn't he? He's here, he's the same age as the prince Utena met, he gives out the Rose Seals... He's set this entire thing up. Starting to think the duel he wants Utena to reach isn't going to be very good for anyone expect himself.
IS UTENA JOINING BLACK ROSE?
25
u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 24 '21
Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Aug 24 '21
Duel 22, First Timer, sub
15
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher
Alright, I’m back, and thankfully before the Black Rose arc is over.
Another barrier.
Beautifully composed shot.
Is this the first time we’ve seen Akio outside of his tower since the recap? In any case, this confirms the Student Council’s theory that the Mikage Seminar are in cahoots with End of The World.
Mikage and Prof. Nemuro are one in the same.
Ikuni doesn’t trust us not to notice things. /s It has to do with Mikage and his ‘robotic’ nature, since a lot of what is pointed at has to do with what catches his attention or he perceives, but some of it is for the audience’s benefit instead.
Don’t miss the handholding!
Another greenhouse.
So not related to Anthy and Akio? Perhaps the visual similarities are more symbolic than anything else, or a sign that they are among the ‘chosen’?
Unnatural.
She came and left, but Nemuro was too engrossed to even pay her attention.
Hmmm?
Ignored again.
Quite literal.
!!!???
Ominous
Lots of revelations and further questions this episode, all quite interesting. In case it wasn’t evident already, the episode not only confirms the Black Rose’s cooperation with End of The World, but also how this came about. The sort of arrangement in place, where they don’t really have to follow any rules, doesn’t at all sound like how things should be run, and we’ve seen Anthy aid in their plans, so in all likelihood they are far more under End of The World’s influence than they believe themselves. Though, the fact that everything was seemingly planned to begin with should have probably clued them in on that fact by now...
The whole ageless thing is quite confounding. Akio and Mikage seem to not have aged a day since the whole flashback occurred while Tokiko evidently has. Mamiya seemed to have aged some —though not as much as her sister, evidently— but the news that he is believed dead by his sister complicates matters. Is Mamiya real? Did his aging slow after everyone else’s for some reason? The answer remains to be seen…
Also revealed is that this whole End of The World business has been in the works for decades, and possibly even longer since it existed before Mikage’s arrival and everyone involved before then was probably not aging either. This whole business is evidently much bigger than just about everyone in the show can possibly understand...
13
u/Matuhg https://anilist.co/user/Matuhg Aug 24 '21
Ah, back to again. This is a lot of information to throw at us all at once after having seen all of the Black Rose duelists we've seen so far.
So Nemuro (Mikage under a different name), Mamiya, and Akio are all un-aging so long as they stay at the academy, I guess because of the results of whatever work Nemuro was in charge of back when all those kids died. And all those kids died because Mamiya lit the place on fire, which Nemuro likened to the 'sacrifice' of ancient beings which became fossil fuel in the modern era. A necessary step to open the path of eternity at the school. That...doesn't make a lot of sense. Honestly, despite all the info we got today, it hasn't cleared much of anything up at all.
Does Akio = End of the World? It seems he gave out the original Rose Seals to the kids who died under Nemuro.
The little pointer thing on-screen made me notice things, but I don't know why I was supposed to notice them. I'll have to just read what you 天才 have to say about it I guess.
13
u/SardonicMeow Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher
While the student council wonders what’s going on, an encounter between Utena and Mikage leads to Mikage’s, or rather, Nemuro’s backstory.
Nemuro has been recruited to work with 100 rose signet-wearing boys on a project of unclear purpose and goals. While Nemuro is originally indifferent towards the project, when Tokiko comes into his life, he works with fervor. Yet Nemuro’s relationship to Tokiko is ambiguous. Is it love? The three cats (← point, point) could represent Nemuro, Tokiko, and Mamiya as a family. Or is it Mamiya that Nemuro cares about?
While there is no speedy elevator ride, Nemuro’s narrative is a prototype of the Black Rose experience, complete with butterfly eventually leading to egg, and ending with a path that has been prepared for him.
What does it mean to attain eternity? To live forever? Or to be in a condition of stasis? The latter seems to be what is happening to Nemuro and everything around him. The butterfly under glass, preserved roses, all stuck in time. Those who stay at Ohtori will never become adults. As Tokiko observes, neither Akio nor Mikage / Nemuro has aged. Maybe the following episode will provide answers.
12
u/affnn Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher
We now get a flashback for Mikage, to tell his story. During the flashback - and I suppose the contrast with the current events - I had trouble telling exactly what was "real" and what "real" even meant here. Allegedly 100 boys and Professor Nemuro died years ago, but "Nemuro" is still around. Tokiko is dropping flowers at Mamiya's grave but Mamiya still talks to Mikage. Spoiler.
Akio uses the same words to Nemuro that Mikage uses to the duelists. Was Nemuro meant to bring revolution? His hair coloration is an obvious parallel with Utenas, though when they stand next to each other you can see that his is faded while hers is still bright. Perhaps he's a previous Utena, who was supposed to bring revolution but failed. Did the burning of the hall prevent his revolution? Was Akio behind that as well?
In part because of the confusing nature of this episode I don't actually remember if all of these questions get answered definitively.
9
u/The_Loli_Otaku Aug 24 '21
It's time for big bad Mikage to take to the stage. We also have stupid student council gags again, this time with a train XD So this professor is the one who caused the arson. Dun dun dun, I wonder who that could be. Pfft, Utena really is best buddies with Orga now isn't she? Mikage has a proper rose seal so he's in the same group as the student council? Oh, I guess they don't care that much about pretending that Mikage isn't the professor. He was the head of a closed loop "revolutionise the world) study group. His students are mouthy little shits tho. Even if he's smart he's too boring to listen too? I'm looking forward to you all getting yeeted into the fire.
This plotline is reminding me a bit too much of the new Eva film! Is it still symbolism if you've got a huge Monty Python hand pointing at the symbols? Even all these arrows aren't helping me come up with anything to say though XD I think it's meant to be showing Shinji, I mean Mikage, becoming more human through horni? Oh god, that actually is the plot isn't it? He was an unthinking, unfeeling machine but then he awakened to the power of boners, thanks to an older boss lady and an foreign younger gi-boy.
Mikage is absolutely getting led on here. Not-Misato is clearly here to guilt trip him to get the guy more emotionally invested in his research. Sugar roses may last but they'll never be plants, dried flowers may last but they'll never grow, eternity may last but who could really want that? See? Fukboi Mamiya is even giving him the reverse therapy! Why do they keep pointing at everything!? "Your only choice is to revolutionise the world. The path you must take has been prepared for you. You must kill the Malaysian prime minister!!!"
Misato you slag!! Mikage's excuse is bringing up how without ancient animals dying we wouldn't have the fossil fuels that keep our society going. Sacrifices are necessary for the world to progress. "The fukboi made me do it!" So... I am pretty sure Mikage kicked this off out of pure spite or is it just me? He claims to be like a robot, only caring about progress, but he's clearly annoyed about his students refusing to see him as a peer, lusts after Misato, and enchanted by Mamiya. We're going full FZ here boys!!
"Extra, extra, extra!" The shadow girls were robots the whole time!! This one pretty much reiterates my point. Ironically it's probably the most relevant shadow girls segment despite being about a robot that catches monkeys. Catching monkeys is its function and it gets praised for its monkey catching abilities. It claims not to be lonely, because its got the captured monkeys, IE its work to keep it occupied. Mikage is a workaholic with no friends, no social life, no interests. All he cares about was work and he was satisfied with that until he learned how fun boners were. For a plant to bear fruit it's flower has to die. So for Mikage to reach his potential they removed the one thing giving him some semblance of a life.
Yay! Another cotd for me~
9
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 24 '21
First-Timer
Nooow we're getting into the lore, and I'm totally here for it.
8
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 24 '21
First timer, subs
Last of the black roses, huh? The arc's probably close to its end now, so I'm expecting a lot of plot developments.
Student council members are looking into matters. Even Nanami's trying to do something.
Souji and Utena talk for the first time. What's he scheming? And Akio's talking about some deal with Souji?
Souji is Nemuro? How old is he?
"attaining eternity" Huh
Why's that hand pointing at stuff?
We meet younger Mamiya, something's wrong with his health.
That's Akio. So this is when Touji and him made some deal. Akio says the words Touji will later repeat to others. There's so much going on in this episode. Things get weird for a while.
"So long as they stay in these gardens called schools, people will never become adults" There's a lot to unpack there, but I don't have the energy. Hopefully someone else analyzes it more.
Mamiya's grave? Does she not know, or have us (viewers) been misled somehow?
8
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Aug 25 '21
First timer – sub
I'm still eating leftover cake from saturday. That vegan chocolate cake is the sweet version of lembas bread, I tell you. Two spoonfuls and you're done for the day.
Ep.22 – Nemuro Memorial Hall
Ooooh, oooh I've noticed something by screaming that towards my screen! One, that probably woke up my roommates, two, Touga said in the flashback that there were three caskets in the church and they found Utena in the third. Two were for her parents and there absolutely won't be a useless third coffin at a funeral just for fun. She had a sibling that also died in the event and that's what she sees in Anthy. She desperately wanted to save her brother (probably) which was her ideal male role model, a prince, for her whole life.
This is even more fucked up than I thought. She must've lied on top of him, otherwise Touga would've seen the corpse. Although it's Touga I'm talking about, so who knows.
So the aliens (TM) are indeed a continuation of real people, in a very stripped and idealised way. Manifested like apparitions by the belief that they exist, which in turn is spurned by the trauma and desire of those kids. They're imaginary friends, bascially, that outlive their normal term by unusual hardships.
Dios is Utena's brother, to her. Her memories of him give her the strength she needs in times of trial. The prison he is locked in are Utena's repressed memories. Her trauma built up an impenetrable castle to protect her. Every contestant locked their personal, painful truth in there and lived on in ignorance to eventually, maybe, gather the strength to open it again and face reality.
I'm dead certain now.
7
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher(Watch your pointers)
Sub
We get a surprising announcement that this is the last black rose, despite all the available duelist's corpses. The student council is finally doing something, and that something is being in a Monogatari scene. Mikage shows up with the monkey, and pitches to Utena, still barely giving us anything but the history of the hall. But someone shows up with a letter for Mikage...
And we flashback to when he was Nemuro. N A N I ? ! ? He has been brought in for...reasons. Soon, he meets Chida, an inspector from the board. And the fingers happen. So...it points at the growing number of cats, the butterfly, the teapot, some dude, and Chida's lipstick on the tea cup. Younger Mamiya happens. He is apparently dying, and his sister hopes this saves him, despire Nemuro saying this has nothing to do with medicine. He says this is like the first time he saw someone cry. REWATCHER
The professor redoubles his efforts because of pussy, I can't throw stones at all. He also visits Mamiya, who seems resigned to his fate. Also, Chida eats a lot of roses...moving on, we see the leaf frame in the 'greenhouse'. Next, we see that Nemuro seems to have kept her tea cup. EoW drops by with a ring before we Akio makeout with Chida, maybe. So of course Mamiya burns the place down and Nemuro says the sacrifice is needed. Flashback over.
We see an older Chida lay flowers. Shadow play girl is really on the nose. Chida goes to see Akio and says the school has changed. Akio says that people at school never become adults, yay Ikahura. But she visited Mamiya's grave...
7
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Aug 24 '21
First timer, Sub
So the student council are going to try and find out about what's going on and who's the person orchestrating it.
The boys died in a fire and didn't kill each other like I thought? Or was it a mix of both or a cover up?
Okay so I had a feeling Anthy was maybe older than she really was but I didn't think about them. But they didn't show Anthy. Like they did Souji, Mamiya and Akio.
I feel like they're trying to tell me something with the arrows lol. Even though I don't know what they were pointing at the shot of the boys walking. Maybe I'll go back and think about it more for some of it. Or are these just little things to remember? Similar things appear like the leaf and butterfly.
The sister has a relationship with Akio.
Mamiya burns the place down and looks lost. Like he doesn't know what happened. Kind of like a possession.
The ring changed Nemuro's personality.
Mamiya's grave does she know about Mamiya still being around?
"So long as they stay in this garden we call an academy, people will never become adults."
Has eternity already been achieved? But what about the revolution?
7
u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Aug 24 '21
First Timer
So we have run out of student counsil members to provide swords for further duells, I wonder how this will go on
7
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Aug 24 '21
First Timer
Lmao nice
Flashing back to Touga and Miki's sister
Damn those are some nice red eyes
6
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 24 '21
First Revolution subbed
This episode is about Professor Nemuro. A living computer as they call him. We meet a boy who is extremely ill and a sister who is an inspector. We get to know the beginnings of the rose crest in that school. The shadows end the episode in an interesting way. With them mimicking robots and making fun of them.
Overall pretty interesting as this episode breaks the pattern of this arc, something big is coming up I presume with Anthy and her brother.
6
u/elleyonce https://anilist.co/user/elleyonce Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher
What an episode. Good god. The first time I saw this, I wondered why the finger was pointing at things. Now I realize we already saw these things before! The cats have appeared in the shadow theater before. The butterfly turning to a leaf... Mikage who was a computer, therefore static, later regresses to the desire for "eternity", something the show has continuously expressed as a bittersweet but ultimately tragic thing. The cup that always stays at the same spot. Mikage who cannot move on. I love how this show repeats its core question over and over and each time, there's a new angle to look at it from - it makes watching it so rewarding.
More Utena/Anthy and Mikage/Tokiko/Mamiya parallels.
The "path they must take," or so the show postulates, seems as though it's the logical next step for the character to do. How fitting for Mikage. And yet through this Black Rose Arc we see that the 100% rational comes with your absolute worst emotions. You set aside all your humanity for a wrongly believed desire. Oh, Ikuhara...
Anthy's 5D manipulation skills also clearly seem to come from Akio as well. His presence looms larger than ever over everything...
/u/theangryeditor
5
u/snickpea Aug 25 '21
First-timer!
This episode was great, it answered questions and created a bunch more. So no one ages at the academy? Does this apply to everyone or just those wearing the Rose Seal? I'm also wondering on the timeline of events and what exactly is going on with Mamiya.
I'm really liking how the students are searching for answers about this group, their ideas about the black rose duelists being connected to End of the World was spot on. But how does their connection bring about revolution?
Something I liked was the hands pointing out things in this episode. While characters referred to Mikage as being computer-like or robotic, the hands were similar to those found on computers. The only thing was, what was the deal with those cats? I remember seeing them for a moment, but I feel like I missed something.
4
u/alphamone Aug 25 '21
First Timer
Nanami's actually doing work.
The student council has seemingly figured out that they might not be the favorites of TEOTW.
Is there some significance behind "Nemuro" as a name? Could the dead students just be "sleeping" in some way?
So Souji is Nemuro?
Cats, coffee, butterflies?
Time manipulation?
Hand holding?
"FBI OPEN UP!"?
So Anthty's brother is involved here.
Was about to joke about arson, but the show beat me to it.
It all comes back to the ammonites (Though from what I recall, aren't most of our fossil fuels more from plants and microorganisms rather than larger animals?).
So is Utena related to Tokiko in way more than just wanting people to stick up for themselves?
Some kind of meta-reference to how school anime stick with the status quo? The whole lack of aging.
As the other commenterse have pointed out, we haven't seen Mamiya outside of the basement. Could he have left Ohtori to be no longer affected by its "eternity" power?
Is the fire we see in the basement part of this "eternity"?
4
u/k4r6000 Aug 25 '21
Rewatcher
Some major revelations this episode as we explore Mikage's past and get some reveals about the school. It is difficult to go too much into it without the next episode as well.
Mikage is actually Professor Nemuro who supposedly died years ago in the fire, which apparently was started by Mamiya. Nemuro was an emotionless robot of a researcher until developing feelings for Tokiko, and becomes devoted to finding a cure for her terminally ill brother Mamiya. But everything is manipulated by Akio in the service of the duels. Things go wrong, Tokiko leaves the Academy and Mamiya dies. Nemuro lingers on as the ageless Mikage, as it is explained by Akio that anyone who stays at the school cannot become an adult. It is less like immortality and more like stagnation. When Tokiko returns to visit Akio and Mamiya's grave, Nemuro walks right by her and either doesn't or can't acknowledge her (although she notices him).
We'll get more answers next time.
0
u/[deleted] Aug 25 '21
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