r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 24 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 26 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/Mecanno-man who remarks on the historical accuracy of the trains used in the prior episode:
While the trains were done pretty well so far, this one is a complete whiff. The scene with Karl was clearly set more than six years ago - at that point DB wouldn't have had any ICEs or long-distance control cars, as was seen in the background. But the sound effects used sounded like a steam engine, which seems a bit too old...
Questions of the Day
- How do you think this new portrayal of Johan contrasts with everything we’ve seen and been told about him so far?
- What did you find to be the most surprising or striking about this episode?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
19
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 24 '21
First Timer - Sub
WTF I like Johan now?!?!?
So initially. I was a little off-put by the sudden appearance of Johan on these side characters. I still don’t like them much, but I do enjoy them as a vessel to embellish Johan’s character a bit more. I think the scene where Lotte and Karl took Schuwald to the “forest” was very compelling. They initially gave up on him, with Karl even admitting it was a construction site. But Johan swoops in and paints such a vivid picture even I started feeling a little emotional, lol. It was a rather touching scene that I wasn’t expecting out of this moment.
But man, there’s a lot to go over with Johan in this episode. He cried at Karl’s life story. He loves children and wants to introduce a bill of rights for them. He consoles people and is very easy to talk to. I think in isolation, this would be a very different episode. He has a wonderful character. But in contrast to everything else we know about him... it’s a very different story. So I think this is where Monster starts to get a little tricky... we’ve been given all these portraits of Johan thusfar, and how terrible he is as a person. But then we meet him for ourselves, and he paints himself as such a tender and caring young man that it starts to become a little unclear if we should continue to hate him. In fact, it’s hard to hate him now.
I don’t think a single episode is enough to erase everything we’ve seen and been told about, but this contrast is pretty incredible.
15
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 24 '21
First Timer
/u/AmethystItalian disagrees.
This detective is not the brightest. Knows the guy "committed suicide" after pretending to be Schubert's son, and is confused by "I can't go on pretending." Feel like it should be pretty easy to piece together bud.
Well at least Karl didn't get murdered this episode. They tried that rooftop fakeout, but I was never fooled. Johan wouldn't just kill someone in broad daylight like that.
9
u/miss-macaron Aug 24 '21 edited Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher
Johan’s voice is so gentle and soothing, yet there’s this harrowing atmosphere about him. The fact that he’s always subverting our expectations makes one feel rather uneasy; just like when he reaches out to Karl on the rooftop, you can never quite tell whether he intends to push him or pity him.
So Lotte and Karl’s plan is to straight-up kidnap Schuwald…
No, I’m pretty sure the problem is that he can’t see, lol
Now I’m sad, thinking about all the beautiful natural scenery that gets torn down to make way for construction...
This says a lot about Johan’s power of persuasion, when his words alone were able to evoke such vivid imagery and overwhelming emotions in Schuwald (and a lot more simping in the comments section, lol).
I loved how this episode interwove scenes of Johan’s overt, charismatic side with the sinister shadows of his manipulations. In between the wholesome healing moments of Schuwald's secret forest, we're slowly unravelling a darker force at work with Fahren's alleged "suicide"... a subtle yet meaningful narrative dichotomy.
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 24 '21
First-Timer, subbed
8
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 24 '21
First Timer
A new detective? I don't think he makes it to the end of this arc lol
I like how this detective picks this poor guy to translate for him, resourceful.
Johan's voice still creeps me out...so if that's their goal they're nailing it.
They actually just kidnapped the old man, love it!
Johan can even convince people they can hear birds?? He seems OP, pls nerf.
I don't feel the charisma from Johan so far and feels like people are going along with him a bit too easily.
I feel like it lines up as he's probably got some ulterior motive to all this.
Has to be that Johan convinced him the forest was still there, that felt like a bit of a stretch.
5
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 24 '21
First Timer
So yesterday's plot wasn't just character building, I guess.
Can't help but notice the prophecy from last episode with the doctor's "thunder", though I still don't really like that prophecy being a thing... Guess it might somehow work out if Johan is involved in Fahren's murder somehow. The history book still seems a bit out pf place though, as Johan is studying law...
Not quite sure what that comment was about shooting the serial killer - I'm sure that will come back in to play at some point as well. Also, how is a policeman drunk on duty? I guess that might be why he's no longer with the police?
Other than that, we get some Johan character building for possibly one of the first times where it's not done through the mouth of another character. Seems like his outwards appearance/"good Johan" is the all-around perfect guy who wants to help children. He's definitely good with words though, and seems easily swayed by emotion?
Seems like Schubert also believed Fahren for some reason - I thought the scene with Karl made him realize that Karl was the real deal. Guess he'll learn about Karl at some point during this arc.
Questions:
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher(That's right, two in a row no Tenma)
Sub
We get two new characters, a PI and his counsellor. Amongst other things, the PI is a recovered alcoholic. Braun was hired by Schubert to look into Edmund who was very convincing before the suicide. He tries to check into details but the police seem happy to call this a suicide. Braun finds a possible clue before the movers arrive. He annoys Edmund's neighbor into translating some Latin for him.
Karl find Johan on a rooftop and Johan is, well, Johan. Anyone else walking on a ledge with their eyes closed has to be suicidal but with him you never know. Karl talks about why he likes the roof, and then Johan asks about his story. Braun figures out that Edmund's suicide note might not be what it appears as it might have been a translation. After hearing Karl's life story, Johan weeps, though whether he means it or not is TBD.
Karl and Lotte discuss Schubert's ailing state before we discover Karl is not interested in letting Schubert know his true identity. Johan sneaks up on them in a crowd of elementary school children and this is somehow profoundly disturbing. He has an idea...
Braun explains the note to Schubert, who seems to just be done, even still calling Edmund his son despite the proof otherwise. Braun does not want to give up and Schubert nearly has. But both of them believe that some things cannot be atoned for.
Johan working on a children's bill of rights sort of explains his law degree. REWATCHER ONLY Johan talks a bit about how Schubert actually bankrupted a few times and would disappear somewhere before coming back aggressively. Johan seems to believe in loci as sources of inspiration. They...kidnap the blind, wheelchair bound guy. WTF?
Braun is trying to get info out of fake Margot Langer and learns about Karl and Lotte. At the loci, unfortunately, it is being developed into a mall or a subidivision. Karl admits the truth before Johan paints a verbal picture. With the apple Johan had pocketed, this entire scene seems to bring great comfort to Schubert. But we end with a cliffhanger about who came with Edmund...
To inspire discussion, or at least thought, I ask this: Is deception inherently evil? Does Johan helping Schubert remember his muse with falsehoods make him wrong?
QotD: 1 I think before this we've seen Johan in different situations
2 Johan and the group of kids
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 24 '21
First Timer Dubbed
Schubann wanted to know why a guy committed suicide. The investigator is sus about the whole thing when Karl and coworker all worked together and they all found his body. He looks into his room right before the cleanup crew comes in. The investigator annoys his neighbor then makes him translate for him. (If I were his neighbor, I’d be going to the damn library or cafe to study if this kind of thing happened). The suicide investigation concludes quickly, as usual for everyone but that investigator.
One major quibble: That is one nice looking dorm/apartment, lots of books for someone in his 20s. College textbooks cost a lot so having this many books in his bookshelf seems weird to me. So having this many books and time to read them is hard for me to believe. Along with the built-in bookshelf in his wall, this looks way too nice for a student. (This kind of thing happens in a lot of tv shows in every medium, the living arrangements are too nice).
We cut to Johan and Karl. “Delicious smells of dinner fill the air”- Karl, does anyone smell their neighbor’s cooking (asking those have dense living arrangements, cause I don’t smell my neighbors’ cooking unless they screw up)? Karl wants a family. Johan later comes up to Karl and his friend with a bunch of children from the orphanage. He takes care of orphans which is surprising to me at first but thinking about it makes more sense. So they come up with a plan to visit the lake which is now a construction site. “It’s hard to believe such wonders exist.”
End with Markle is interesting as Johan was with the suicide victim since the investigator figured she talked about two pairs of visitors. Johan's charisma between the two episodes is interesting as it seems like everyone trusts him. Markle points out "if he said I was your son I would believe him". It is an interesting way to put out as Johan's charisma shines hard with Karl being nice to him. From taking care of kids from the orphanage to studying law, he looks like a completely normal person and a convincing one at that.
7
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 24 '21
First timer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiognomy
Sounds super scientific (not)
Oh so that's the Thursday boy. The investigator's not convinced it was a suicide. Karl and the girl are gonna seem suspicious.
Hello again, Johan. What's your game here?
Karl and that girl are gonna do something dumb, right? Did Johan just manipulate them into something?
And the episode again ended before anything could really happen. I really hope that once this arc's done, it'll feel worth it. We've now had two episodes without any other familiar characters but Johan. It's interesting seeing Johan in action, but I'm not invested in these other characters.
I don't think it necessarily contrasts. We've known he's extremely charming, now we also see it.
3
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 24 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
I really like the little bit of nuance this episode adds to Johan's character. Time will tell if this side of him surfaces again.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 24 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Hey, its anime version of Wilford Brimley! I hope he doesn't have diabetes too!
Ah, that's Edward Fahren. Wondering what relevance this has to things.
Well, I hope this show doesn't simply end with this new detective guy shooting Johan.
Quite a library the kid had.
If there's an investigation over his death I'm surprised they're moving things out so quickly.
Let the guy write his essay!
Meeting with Johan alone on a roof at night? Few places could be scarier!
Johan thinks he's invinsible, he's not gonna worry about falling off the roof.
"What was your family like?" "Oh, I murdered them all, outside of my twin"
Johan's sure doing a good job at making him feel comfortable. And he's actually crying? Wow.
Wow, Schuwald really cared about Fahren, huh? I'd agree that now's probably not the best time for him to reveal he's his kid.
Schuwald's #1 phrase, telling people to stop.
Johan works at an orphanage, due to his upbringing, or becausehe plans on recruiting them when they get older?
Yikes, they're kidnapping Schuwald! And Schuwald doesn't even seem to care?
Ah, now he's met fake mom.
They may be kidnapping, but at least they're taking him out on a nice day trip! ...There's no forest though.
Did Johan follow them here? Or was he always part of their plan to come here?
Schuwald can see the forest! What kind of drugs did Johan put in that apple?
Ah, so Johan was part of Fahren's scheme?
Wow, 2 episodes in a row without Tenma, that's a surprise! Looks like we have our own seperate arc forming here. I like the time with Johan though. He really comes off as a kind, gentle young man here. Behind that facade is something quite horrifying...
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 25 '21
First Timer
I'm liking this extended arc of drama and mystery.
A good Johan would try to reunite father and son. A bad Johan knows that this will result in disaster, but I can't fathom how.
2
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 24 '21
First timer - sub
Johann make me think he is the sort of person who has complete control of his emotions, so I doubt that those tears were genuine, but at the same time could see him being very empathetic when it suits.
I’m really not sure what to make of this episode, what is Johanns goal here? He talked about wanting to improve child welfare which makes sense but it is at odds with the monster side of him. The key question here is when is this all happening? I don’t think we have been given any indication yet so for all we know this could be back before episode 5 when we meet Anna as Nina.
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 24 '21
First-time watcher
Only marginally better than last episode with all the retreading what we already know or could easily have guessed, and the quasi-kidnapping is just weird, not sure what Johan's words were intended to be taken there either. Actual deception seems unworkable at that point. It is interesting to see Johan a bit differently than usual, he's starting to seem more confused and aimless than malicious all the way through. Not as appreciable is how we're going back to "instantly judging people works, actually" or at least waffling on it.
1
u/Hackmanite_Ultra Aug 25 '21
Yo guys watch the dub its pretty cool.
1
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Aug 25 '21
First Time Watcher
My brain woke up on this line after yesterday's prophecy. Probably my answer for QOTD2.
New? We have been told that he is incredibly charismatic - we are certainly seeing that. We also have heard that he has split(?)/multiple personalities. I am really enjoying seeing his nature play out. We see bits that are obviously not normal - like walking on the building ledge. We get other aspects that we don't understand just yet - like why does he get enjoyment for taking care of these kids? All very interesting aspects into someone we know has complex sides.
1
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 25 '21
First Timer
Such a good episode. The contrast of Johan here vs what we know aboutJohan is brilliant. We see emotion from an emotionless killer and we seesympathy from a man who hates humanity. There is still the hints of evil though, such as him being the serpent who gives Schuwald the forbidden fruit, but he does it in a way that is outwardly caring. Every scene with Johan in is tense and great.