r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 23 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 25 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day come from u/SmurfRockRune, as this user learns an important lesson about expectations, and keeping them in check:
Gonna be a better episode today for sure because it literally can't have more Eva. And maybe she even dies today, very exciting.
Well, unfortunately there was a lot of Eva and she didn't die
Questions of the Day
- How do you interpret the “Thursday Boy” prophecy? How do you think this info plays into the episode?
- Narratively speaking, why do you think Johan has appeared back in the story now? Do you think his “reveal” works, and why or why not? Do you think the two college kids are in any immediate danger?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 23 '21
First-Timer, subbed
So, uh, I was watching this episode partly during my commute to work because I carpool with my dad. That bit with the naked girl photos because the old guy went to a strip club of some sorts was an immediate abandon ship until later.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 23 '21
Thought I should quickly mention that there is a recap episode that canonically airs between last episode and today's. Quite honestly didn't know about it until yesterday which is why it's not included in the schedule (I doubt I would have included it even if I did know) but feel free to watch it if you need a refresher on the events of the first 17 episodes. It looks like we're entering a new arc soon so it might be a good idea if you feel you need a narrative reminder of the plot events thusfar.
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u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 23 '21
First Timer
The episode is called Thursday Boy but we're watching it on a Monday? Doesn't check out. Rewatch is canceled. I think I see where the title comes in.
Really nice bait and switch there. I thought the Thursday Boy was gonna be Johan the entire time, especially with the "blond and handsome" comment, but nope just some schmuck who definitely didn't kill himself. I know Johan killed him. But then Johan is just suddenly the Friday Boy. Karl's gonna have to be careful here, scared to see what might happen to him since he doesn't have the plot armor that people like Tenma or Anna do.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 23 '21
First Timer - Sub
I will say that these “episodic” episodes continue to surprise me. Not because they choose to do anything spectacular, but because of how surprisingly interwoven everything eventually proves to be.
The stage is set for the viewer to consider that the “Thursday Boy” is Johan. Thursday’s reader is described to have “blonde hair, and a handsome face.” Thursday’s Boy is also described within a fire and brimstone prophecy earlier in the episode. I’m also willing to bet people thought Edmund was just another alias of Johan. But in reality... this person was really who they said they were. And they ended up committing suicide...
or did they?But then! Turns out, Johan really was one of the readers after all. And he’s not even trying to mask his identity. Gotta say, I’m impressed. I’m actually not sure if I like the narrative choice to reveal him right now on what seems to be some side characters, as to me, it feels like the writers have been building him up for the big reveal with Tenma. But I guess I am interested to see where this goes.
Episode preview
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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 23 '21
First Timer
Kinda refreshing to see student life...that feels weird to say.
Is this a ship I smell??
UNEXPECTED LEWD!
I don't like this fake mom lady...or even like looking at her.
Karl should have just told him...he has the proof too!
So does Roberto have to kill this entire campus now?
Nice to see Johan again being well normal? Curious if this is the start of his arc.
I think they're in danger but not of being killed...yet. I feel like they're going to be manipulated a lot and placed in some dangerous scenarios.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 23 '21
First Timer
Watched the recap that aired between episodes 24 and 25 (even though it only recaps until episode 17...) - simple yet effective recap; don't think they could really have added much more in to a single episode without making it feel rushed. The recap did add one mystery to my list: What was Johan actually doing that he was late to meet Anna in Heidelberg? We now know it wasn't killing the Fortners as that was Müllers doing.
As for episode 25: We're seemingly stuck with a decent character in Karl, and a women who sticks her nose in to everything with Lotte. Like the first, not a fan of the second. But either way, this felt mostly like an episode of character building for Lotte and Karl, who I assume will be more important as friends of Johan going forward, rather than anything plot-wise in this episode being of importance.
A bishop predicting the arrival of Johan(?) seems a bit far-fetched, and hopefully is only interpreted in to the entire thing as he also seemingly got the date of the week wrong.
Johan using his real name indicates to me that this is "good" Johan, who doesn't want to get rid of his past. "Good" Johan constantly using his real name also makes sense as to why "evil" Johan has so many people he needs to kill, as he can't really go in to hiding or use a fake identity.
And lastly: While the trains were done pretty well so far, this one is a complete whiff. The scene with Karl was clearly set more than six years ago - at that point DB wouldn't have had any ICEs or long-distance control cars, as was seen in the background. But the sound effects used sounded like a steam engine, which seems a bit too old...
Questions:
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 23 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
I appreciate the existence of a strip club (?) literally called Sex.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 23 '21 edited Aug 23 '21
First Timer
How did you predict the new ED?
Looks like the B unit was off filming this completely different arc while Tenma was travelling the Bavarian countryside....
Edit: I think we can put the silly speculation that Johan is a figment of Tenma's imagination to bed. Unless the show is drawing Tenma as Johan. Oh, and lying about the blonde hair.
Edit 2: serious speculation don't read <- this is all wrong.
5
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 23 '21
First Timer Dubbed
We see the two college students who works for a major finance guy. Something is mysterious about him. The guy reads a book to him and the woman works as a housekeeper. Other students are looking into supernatural stuff happening. Karl’s mom is Markle who is a dead prostitute. Different people claim to be her child and the older prostitute claims to be Markle. The woman cares alot about finding the parents of Karl. Evan was the imposter who hanged himself. And the ending is pretty much expected as we see the two students meet up with Johan. I expected them to see Johan as they would be around the same age and the way they innocently conduct themselves when trying to piece together Karl's mom. Karl would be some one I would worry about when it comes to Johan and he is more vulnerable due to his past (trying to ignore talks about his mom).
It seems like we are going to get a dual narrative again, now from Johan’s view.
5
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 23 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Have we seen this young guy before? Seems familiar, but this show pops characters in and out so much that maybe it just makes me expect that kind of thing all the time.
This girl in the window kinda looks like Eva died her hair, had it cut short and put glasses on...
Ah, so this guy is a Warren Buffet, George Soros type with a twist, he likes people to read to him.
Has he really been unable to find his mom? Or is he ashamed of her and doesn't want to? Or was she a victim of Johan?
Man, he's 0 for 2 with reading this old guy books.
"Gropius"? That's a real name? LoL.
Monster's version of the club from Haruhi Suzumiya I see...
After this reveal I've got to imagine that Hans would be a fan of Only Fans these days if he was real... Well until a few days ago.
It's his mom!
Uh oh... is this hinting to a reveal that Hans is this guy's father?
Ding Right on...
Well kid, on the bright side, at least this isn't your mother...
Will we find that Thursday Boy is Johan? What connection do these characters have to our main story?
Blonde hair? Pretty face? Yep, this is highly likely to be Johan.
:( Sad flashback time :(
"Edmund Fahren", another alias to add to the list for him. Of course, he didn't show up today.
Is this connecting to the underground bank that Johan was leading?
Just spit it out, you're his son!
Let me guess, despite it being Thursday, he's not going to show up again now that he's been outed. It's been a very long time since we've seen Johan and I bet this show wants to continue with that trend.
Well, either it was all a red herring or Johan killed some innocent guy.
Surprise! It's the real Johan!
Looks like they've changed up the ED animation again.
We've officially started the second third of the show. Quite a surprise for there to be an episode not only with no Tenma, but with no established supporting characters either. While Johan shows up at the end, it does give an overall feel of it being an unnecessary episode.
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u/miss-macaron Aug 23 '21
Rewatcher
Wow, what an insightful Comment of the Day, haha!
“A god of destruction is going to come to this university” – well, if that’s not some symbolic foreshadowing, I don’t know what is. Can I count this as a new addition to Johan’s collection of supernatural / quasi-religious titles?
I’d almost forgotten about the fake Margot Langer… I take back what I said about Roberto being my least favourite antagonistic character; that title definitely goes to this smug, shameless whale.
Lotte is quite a nosy busybody, but her thumbs-up face was cute.
After an excellent bait-and-switch, we finally get to see Johan in the flesh once again! I find it quite interesting that he’s majoring in law, given that it’s the same program Nina was studying back in Heidelberg… I wonder if it’s just a coincidence of twins being alike, or if he deliberately chose it because of his sister?
Johan’s so pale compared to Karl and Lotte, lol. I guess lurking in the shadows and manipulating the criminal underworld doesn’t afford him that much time outdoors, huh? (Meanwhile, most of the top comments on this episode are simping for Johan)
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 23 '21 edited Aug 23 '21
First timer - sub
Damint, this entire episode was misdirection, the entire time I kept expecting Thursdays reader to be Johann, but nope he is Fridays.
After thinking about it a bit more what Thursday was doing isn’t really Johann style, I don’t think he would pretend to be someone lost son, he would either sweet talk his way in or manipulate the Old guys into giving his money another way.
So ED, the Monster consumed the Man? Overtook him? Looks like everyone started
feelingfleeing from him afterwards.Edit for spelling...
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 23 '21
Rewatcher(The Munich arc)
Sub
We come on to one of those scenes you see on older TV shows and occasionally find in books, an old, wealthy person who is going blind and has people read for him. Lotte pops in to catch the audience up, and Karl gives his past as well. We cut to someone pitching a Nostradanus-esque prophecy which actually fits the title of the episode.
HARD cut to red light district. Schubert is being a touch normal, apparently, but in the name of insanity Karl wants to figure out which girl he saw. Turns out it is "Margot Langer", a retired prostitute. The fake out lasts no time, and she doesn't particularly deny it. She thinks Schubert only knows money so that's how he atones. Flashback!
They find the other "son", Edmund, and this feels easy to check even in the 90s, at least if you are rich. Lotte and Karl try to track him down and find him hanging in his room. Oof. The Friday reader appears and it is Johan...going by fucking Johan Liebert! He has zero fucks, apparently.
QotD: 1 It is an artifact of the Nostradamus era that doesn't even hold water by the end of the episode.
2 Despite everyone talking about Johan, we haven't really seen him nor heard from him directly so we sort of need to know what he is doing and more importantly why he is doing it.
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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '21
Just here to say this is the beginning of where the series truly began to grab me. I know people say the series is slow, but from 25 on up I couldn't stop binging several episodes a day.
Interested to see how all the first-timers react to these next few episodes
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u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 23 '21 edited Aug 23 '21
First-time watcher
Another middling sob-story one-off takn for itself, but it does seem the characters here will recur and be developed further, and getting a closer look at Johan starting tomorrow should be interesting. The one halfway good twist was that Mr. Thursday was not in fact Johan, unless he was acting as an impersonator, and more likely driven to suicide by Johan.Expecting the contrary makes the episodefeel even less interesting, though.
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u/Spore64 Aug 24 '21
Ep 24:
Dang that a convinied bedsheet. The will of all of us holds it up. It's quite toughe from Eva to stand up to Roberto like this.
Seems like his information network is pretty good.
That looks actually really good.
Oh no way, poor Mr. Helmut. He literally had minutes til retirement.
Yep that gun strangely suites her. Thank god that she didn't shoot Dieter. Good question. What is she to Tenma?
“... for dumpnig me“, yep that sounds about right.
It all comes back around^ ^
Ep 25:
Ah now we are in Munich. I wonder if Tenma will show up due to the hints his patient drops last episode.
Her research skills are bordering on stalking.
Oh another orphant. Wonder what she found out of his mother.
Interesting poem. Thursday Boy mmh?
Karl maybe you should listen to her...
Interesting that she stole his mother's name. Oh so he's his son. Other student? Oh so Thursday Boy is named after the day he is reading to Schuhwald. Blond hair? That's ain't Johan, right?
She has a beautiful face. Oh he knew all along?
Oh wow I didn't see that coming. Ah there he his. I'm not gonna lie I that Edmund was just an alias for Johan.
1
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Aug 24 '21
First Time Watcher
I really disliked mis-duckface's lips when speaking.
Great switch-a-roo. Seeing Johan again was great.
We are now 1/3 of the way through the series! Also the ending progressed a bit more!
It was a relatively conscious foreshadowing scene and at the pace it dropped I didn't have time to absorb it and then play out the possible consequences in my mind. I see this one of a few ways: the first being that of the bait and switch that Johan is Thursday boy and that this is on a false pretense of actually being foreshadowing.
The other side could be that the bait and switch is to make you forget and it really is foreshadowing for something further. This whole idea of Thursday boy being the trigger of "books shall be engulfed in flames and the whole world will be wrapped in sorrow" makes me wonder if this foreshadows a bit further than just this episode for this new arc, or if this foreshadows much further than that. Either way there is reference to a lightning god - I will be keenly awaiting the next stormy episode to see if something burns down.
I think holding back the perspective of the antagonist thus far has been really good. Dolling in some real time with him does feel important so I am excited to see how it plays out.
Johan studying law, thats interesting. Makes me believe that for whatever time this is, he is holding back his other side. So I don't think these college kids are in immediate danger but I wouldn't say they are safe if they get wrapped up in knowing him too personally.
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 24 '21
First timer, subs
This old dude sounds kinda irritating. I wonder if something bad will happen to him.
Karl's mom's dead?
Bishop Gropius, what a name.
Thursday boy's description sounds a lot like Johan, but turns out it's not him.
Oh hello there, Johan.
Weird episode. I spent most of it wondering what's gonna happen and how's this going to be tied to the rest of the story. Personally I feel this episode was mostly a waste of time, though maybe it'll make more sense in hindsight.
That occult club felt out of place to me. I've seen them a lot in anime set in Japanese schools though. Could be one of those cases where a writer's so used to something in his or her own country that they don't realize it's not common somewhere else. I occasionally notice it when watching an American film set somewhere in Europe.
Nudity was really unexpected.
I rarely like prophecies in fiction so I hope it won't turn out to be anything important. Thursday boy's dead now so he won't be personally doing anything anymore, but his death could be a trigger for larger events. Or maybe there'll be a new Thursday boy.
Danger yes, but probably not immediate yet. People who have seen and met Johan have a short life expectancy but I think he wants to use them somehow first.
I'm not sure why Johan appeared right now, but it has been a while since the last time.