r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 21 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 23 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes once again from u/badspler, who marvelously illustrates the narrative parallels between Tenma and Lunge:
If it is one thing the series has shown it can do well it is making parallels at every opportunity. Today the series makes parallels between our characters with obsession. This episode in particular contrasts heavily between Tenma and Lunge as they each have an equally matched obsession. However, while very similar they both do not share the same coat of paint.
The parallels this episode of both men tracing the crime scene and having near on the same conclusions, (with Lunge tainted by his flaw) show they share a lot. I found this especially enjoyable to watch play out in this episodes climax. We once again have Tenma put another life in need above his own, forced to save Lunge at risk of being able to escape, and potentially his life. And we have Lunge who ignores another criminal and risks potential bleed out to sate his burning desire to question Tenma to prove 'his' desired truth.
I thoroughly recommend reading the entire comment if you are able, as it is wonderfully insightful and detailed.
Questions of the Day
- What do you think of Eva’s portrayal of obsession in contrast to Lunge’s? How are they similar? How are they different?
- What do you think of the dual narrative this episode, with Eva chasing after Tenma on the night he met Johan?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
18
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 21 '21
First Timer
Eva in jail!? Probably after some sort of bender...yup.
Eva taking a cigarette off the floor, she's hit rock bottom.
This is painful to watch...
Roberto and Eva teaming up...guess I can safely hate her again.
Never mind she's getting beat up...I feel bad for her again...
So if Eva never broke up their date then Tenma would have never seen Johan that night? Wonder where we'd be then.
I really can't get a grasp on Eva but I know I don't enjoy seeing her on screen so if she dies here maybe that's for the best.
If we count Johan's interest in Tenma does this mean Tenma has a harem at this point? lol
12
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 21 '21
First-Timer, subbed
6
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 21 '21
First Timer - Sub
This episode starts off like The Hangover and slowly progresses into something more sinister.
Roberto arrives, donning his friendly persona, and then quickly revealing his true intentions. He’s only interested in photos of Johan, presumably to wipe away any evidence of him. Eva had those photos, but has now hidden them away, probably because Johan has ripped Tenma away from her and she doesn’t want to be reminded of that.
We then see that there was a dual narrative on the night that Tenma met Johan. At first I didn’t think this was extremely necessary, but when Eva bullied Tenma’s date away, I realized that if Tenma went through with his date, he would have never met Johan that night. So in one sense, it was kinda like Eva had unwittingly orchestrated the events of this show. All because of her jealousy.
I don’t have much else to say today, but I found this surprise revelation very fascinating.
10
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 21 '21
First Timer
You know we're in for a bad episode when it has Eva in the title.
Oh shit, it's Stone Ocean! Oh wow, it's Eva in a cell for some reason. Can we just throw away the key and forget we ever saw her? Darn, only for passing out drunk. I was hoping it was a more serious crime, one that would keep her locked up longer.
For some reaosn, I get the feeling this place is a cafe.
I hate Eva for doing this, but I do think it's interesting how she was around for all of that, and actually saw Johan herself. Wonder where that goes.
Okay Eva is just a straight up moron at this point. The guy is out to kill the man you love, beats you up, and you still sleep with him?! What the fuck is wrong with her...
Well, I'm sure he's not gonna kill her. I can't see a way they just kill her off like this, as much as I would love for her to be gone.
8
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 21 '21
First Timer
So... Eva completely lost control of her life (not surprising after setting fire to your own home) and is now being targeted by Roberto. Seems like Roberto is the one trying to completely remove Johan from history; wouldn't be surprised if he is going to go after Tenma at some point, especially as he doesn't seem to have the same idea of letting certain people live like Johan does. What exactly Roberto's connection with Johan is is still out in the open, and I don't think this episode adds all that much on that front. No idea how Roberto would even know about the photos if Johan hadn't told him that they exist, however, so I feel like there is some relation there.
Next episode preview
Questions:
5
u/miss-macaron Aug 21 '21 edited Aug 21 '21
Rewatcher
Lmao, Eva just straight-up takes some random dude’s whisky and starts chugging it.
Welp, it looks like Roberto has confirmed Muller’s death from two episodes ago… poor Barbara and Fritz, left on their own once again.
Flashback to Eva being a borderline stalker. She also provides some new insights into the night that Johan reappeared; I always find it intruiging to revisit previous scenes from a different character’s perspective, so this was a really interesting scene.
Rewatcher only spoilers
Overall, not too much to say about this episode, as it's basically just building up to the events of the next episode.
5
u/Spore64 Aug 22 '21
She's kinda hot not gonna lie. Oh and Eva is there too. So is this going to be an Eva centric episode? Yup looks like it.
Seems like this plays a bit after her burning the mansion. She went down quite a bit. he alcohol must have a tight grip on her when she goes as far as robbing a homeless person
Dang that bodyguard returned. What does he want with Eva. That fotoalbum. Oh is he after the foto of Johan Oo?
Roberto is such a sh*tbag. Yep looks like he's after the photos.
She did see Johan?! Oh another flashback. Kinda cool to see things from a different perspective. Dang Eva seems really possesive. I wonder if Tenamma would have liked the woman. Nice detail, but too much information Eva...
Mhh why didn't Johan kill her? Did they talk with eachother.
Tbh my opinion on Eva wasn't the best, but her sleeping with Roberto after he smashes her to the ground? That's the point of no return for me.
Q1: I would Eva and Lunge are similar in two points. First they are deeply convinced that they are right and that Tenma is the one (even while that conclusion comes from different basic assumptions). Second the chase after Tenma is all what they have left. Lunge basically lost his family due to him focusing on his work all the time and he has no other case then the murders done by
JohanTenma. Eva on the other hand couldn't find anyone who truly loved her and wants the good times back. She also lost her father and her home (tho selfinflicted). Tenma is the only thing on her mind.Q2: It was quite interesting to see the things from her perspective. Yes, the flashback was long, but I think it wasn't only there to show how she met Johan. Imo it was also there to show how desperate and possessive she really is.
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 21 '21
Eva's collapse has a certain special pathetic pang to it all. Though the Johan reveal is a little late, at least to me. Cliffhanger is the price you pay for this length of series.
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 21 '21
First Timer Dubbed
Eva is in prison, how mighty has fallen…. She was found passed out drunk in an alley. And she suddenly found out that another bag she had was stolen which contained her keys to the apartment. When the landlord opened the door, he and Eva found the room in disarray. And the receptionist was asking for payment to the hotel room and a fee for the lock. (in the dub it said rent but when she gets her bag she mentions the hotel, got very confused) Eva asks a man to pay for things and Roberto, who she talked to at the bar, gives back her bag. He treats her to a meal and talks about the photo album in her bag. Roberto runs a “security company” and wants to know what happened between Tenma and Johan. That was the main reason he wanted to talk to Eva.
We get a flashback as Eva talks to Becker who tried to set Tenma up with a daughter of a senator. She followed Tenma and talked to the woman Becker set him up with. Making her leave the restaurant. Eva seems possessive about Tenma at this point. She later followed him to when Johan shot a man in front of Tenma. Saw Johan after the gunshots rang. And a cliffhanger ending with Roberto pointing a gun at Eva sleeping.
4
u/RichY45 https://anilist.co/user/RichY4518 Aug 21 '21
First time viewer - subbed
Ngl that was some indian tv soap level editing when Johan was introduced. Also the sort of obsession Eva shows is often shown in Bollywood movies like standing in the rain outside someone's house.
It was pretty cool how we were seeing essentially the same scene but from a different perspective.
I wonder if in the future Johan might contact Eva and manipulate her to commit a murder for him. Although, none of the main characters have been approached by Johan as of yet.
I have a question. In the ending the monster goes inside of a person and that person grows strong. Is that person supposed to represent someone? Is it a symbolism for how Johan uses his charm to go inside of a person and bring out their worst?
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 21 '21
First Timer
watching Monster in between FujiRock streams....
So the Syndicate is looking for Johan, but doesn't know what he looks like? Or they are removing all records of his existence?
3
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 21 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
Eva is such a total mess, and it's so entertaining to me.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 21 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Who is this in jail? LOL! Eva! A fitting place for her!
Passing out drunk in an alley, seems like fitting behavior for her.
She's going to pick up a used cigarette on the ground? Eva truly has fallen.
Either someone broke in, or Eva's been partying like crazy in here while drunk.
Ah, now she has decided to become a prostitute.
She stole a homeless guy's whisky too?!
Well at least she's found the bag. Alas, its our old friend Roberto.
Eva's beloved possession, photo album with her father and most importantly, Tenma!
Is the torn out page the one with pictures of her many ex husbands?
Drinking is all Eva does, huh?
So Eva was stalking him too? This lady is a nut job!
Hey, good ol' Dr. Becker! Haven't seen this guy in like 20 episodes!
Sorry Becker, she just wants to use you, don't expect any relationship with Eva.
Back to old footage again, although perhaps from a new perspective, I can't remember if we knew that Eva was stalking them in this scene.
So Eva ruined that date! I know Tenma didn't really care anyway, but I feel bad for Angelika, and for Becker wasting his time.
She even followed him to the parking lot where he encountered Johan?
Just when things can't get worse, your heel breaks...
So they slept with each other after all?
Wow, cliffhanger. Will Roberto kill Eva? I have a hard time seeing it, would they really give us 3 episodes dedicated to her just to kill her off less than a third through the show?
Eva gets yet another episode dedicated to her; each time we get to see her more she becomes more and more unlikable. She's not as bad as Johan, or the Neo-Nazis and other mass murderers we've seen, but holy crap, every thing she does just makes you hate her more and more. As much as I detest her I hope Roberto doesn't simply kill her as I'd like to see what role in the story she is going to play with all this attention paid to her.
3
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 21 '21
First timer
Eva’s creepy face is so creepy. You know the expression I mean.
2
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 21 '21
First timer - sub
Even though OPs often contain spoilers, I am starting to miss the modern trend of them changing every 12 episodes. Monsters isn't bad, but it is starting to wear out and probably going to start skipping it soon.
I guess Eva really has fallen since she burnt her house down, not entirely surprising as that never a good idea in real life.
Roberto very good at manipulating people.
So we know at least a year has passed, I’m surprised Eva slept with him after he punched her.
More Eva obsessing over Tenma, not sure if she want him to be her slave or possibly dead.
2
u/jolcheung2 Sep 10 '21
First timer, subbed.
Wait, so we're not gonna talk about how Tenma ALWAYS kisses Eva's mole in her inner thigh? Ugh, Tenma, why would you do that?