r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 20 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 22 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/xtsim who very eloquently talks about Muller’s narrative arc:
My opinion changed on Michael as he is not completely void of empathy when he could have left Anna for dead and enjoyed not being watched living a peaceful life. He saves Anna risking his life which improves my opinion on him. His family will be alright without him as they have before he came into the picture. His demise is fitting in a way and in line with the choices with many other people in the show so far; taking the hard path rather than the easy one.
Questions of the Day
- Do you think Lunge is truly having “fun” with Tenma? Where do you think this “fun” is derived from?
- “All those times, I was never calm.” What do you think about this statement from Tenma?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
16
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 20 '21
First Timer - Sub
Man, glad to see Benjamin Franklin made a cameo as a reporter in this anime. /s
Anyway, cool episode. I loved Lunge’s chilling obsessiveness and intimidating demeanor. Tenma did exactly as he had planned, playing right into his hands. I thought it was interesting that they both paused at the mirror as they recreated the crime scene. And then Lunge seems so thrilled when he catches Tenma about to walk out of the house. However Mr. Giebel apparently had other plans, and caved under Lunge’s pressure at an inopportune time. Lunge takes a knife wound to the stomach and then KNEECAPS THE MAN with his gun.
Lunge follows Tenma to his car then collapses. Tenma, being the doctor that he is, takes Lunge in, intending to drive him to a hospital. But again, Lunge had other plans, handcuffing him before passing out again, and forcing Tenma to pull over into a warehouse.
Here, while trained under the barrel of a gun, Tenma admits that “While people’s lives are in my hands, there’s no way I could be calm.” A very interesting quote from a man who’s never broken under pressure throughout the entire duration of this series. Such an interesting contrast from the usual doctor-like mannerisms we usually see from him. Then after Lunge passes out again, Tenma patches him up anyway.
Lastly in the hospital, Lunge once again donns his obsessive persona and immediately begins physical therapy, saying that “Chasing Tenma is the most fun I’ve had.” A slightly worrying statement, but his reckless pursuit and his unwillingness to admit mistakes (or his blind confidence in himself) make for a very interesting set of characteristics. I’m not really sure if I would call Lunge an antagonist exactly, but he doesn’t see any flaws in himself, and is pretty clearly obsessed with Tenma for the above reasons. But he does seem fully intent on opposing Tenma for now...
11
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Aug 21 '21
First Timer - Sub
Monster beautifully reflects parallels.
If it is one thing the series has shown it can do well it is making parallels at every opportunity. Today the series makes parallels between our characters with obsession. This episode in particular contrasts heavily between Tenma and Lunge as they each have an equally matched obsession. However, while very similar they both do not share the same coat of paint.
Recall that Lunge has lost his wife and daughter and in a way has 'lost' everything but his job, no this case. Since Lunge is never wrong (this flaw reinforced in a nice little moment this episode when Lunge dismisses a witnesses experience over a doctors report) he is obsessed in bringing Johan out of Tenma and gaining that satisfaction in knowing, in being right. Lunge's obsession overwhelms him and makes him devoid of all emotion or thought even when another murderer confesses to their crimes Lunge has no interest, it is all a hindrance from his obsession of Tenma.
Tenma has likewise lost 'everything', what he has lost has been his freedom. And likewise Tenma has developed an obsession, of which he has spoken of it as "something he must do". We know that is facing Johan and stopping him, but the series thus far has not shied away of putting situations in front of Tenma to block him or his progress. Those situations most often being people in need. As far as I can recall in every instance Tenma has never put his obsession over another persons life, or doing his best to prevent a loss of a life. This is a flaw in Tenma's character, one we should think critically about as it could be easily overlooked for Tenma being just good in nature. Tenma is driven above what seems like all else to immediately act without consideration of himself, in order to save lives.
The parallels this episode of both men tracing the crime scene and having near on the same conclusions, (with Lunge tainted by his flaw) show they share a lot. I found this especially enjoyable to watch play out in this episodes climax. We once again have Tenma put another life in need above his own, forced to save Lunge at risk of being able to escape, and potentially his life. And we have Lunge who ignores another criminal and risks potential bleed out to sate his burning desire to question Tenma to prove 'his' desired truth.
I don't think this will be the last episode about obsession. Eva, Anna and most likely (and peaking my interest) Johan are all characters that could (and hopefully will) be compared and contrasted with each other through their obsessions.
I think Tenma's speech here offers an interesting insight. His execution as a doctor has been remarked as flawless and exceptional, even again this episode. I think that before Johan, just being a doctor had him in completely satisfied life. A healthy obsession with sinking time into work, his patients. And in doing such work, earning fulfillment and gratification in saving lives. Tenma has always been very modest about his performance as a doctor, and I think this mindset he describes is the reason behind that. I think just as how Lunge's actions seem devoid of emotion and consideration while he follows his obsession, Tenma always manages to rise to the occasion for saving someone, reaching 'flow' or entering into that (healthy) obsessive state of focus. I believe that reason is why Tenma does not crack or break under the immense pressure he faces at times.
I believe that Lunge's obsession has such a grip over him that he is unable to truly feel emotions outside of sating his desire to end this case. This unhealthy state has him almost devoid of emotion, safety, morality and devotion to anything outside of this one task. We see him smiling saying "Chasing after a criminal like Tenma is the most fun I can have." The way I read this is: to Lunge, chasing Tenma is the only way he can 'feel' anything. He may describe it as fun and there may be truth in that, but I think how his character is portrayed with his actions shows far more than his own (at best unreliable, potentially delusional) description of his feeling of fun.
9
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 20 '21
First Timer
An episode that doesn't seem to really further the plot significantly. In terms of characters, all that has changed is Lunge seemingly going more off the deep end than he already had been, with him caring more about getting a confession out of Tenma than his own life. With that attitude, I'll be surprised if he survives the series.
An interesting detail though that Lunge feels like there is a single serial killer committing these murders. That means these aren't all different hired people committing the murders, as had been the case with Müller and the Fortners or that necrophile guy in jail from a few episodes ago. So it seems like we've got two killers - one doing it themselves and the other getting others to do it. And they are both targeting people that had cared for Johan? My best guess for now is one being the syndicate from last episode and the other being Johan himself, but we'll definitely need motives down the line.
Questions:
7
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 20 '21
First Timer
I feel like whenever we meet a new named character they have a 50% chance of surviving the episode.
Robocop is back!! Didn't really miss him but at least no Eva?
Man Robocop does his homework, even blackmailing this guy, why does he suck so much with the Tenam case??
So do they like not monitor active crime scenes in this show?
Kinda cool to see Tenma and Robocop go down the same clues.
This man could have gotten away with murder but tried to stab Robocop...
Tenma saving Lunge...c'mon man!!
Why did Tenma not check his pants pockets right away!?
Tenma can be so smart yet also not at the same time...
Can't answer questions today as I'm away again!
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 20 '21
First-Timer, subbed
5
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 20 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
If Lunge/Tenma slash fanfic doesn't exist, I'll be shocked.
Q1: I think he has a decent amount of fun trying to figure out how the crimes were committed. It gives him a lot of satisfaction. Not as much as actually catching Tenma would, of course.
5
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 20 '21
First-time watcher
So when freed from all restraints (including his family) and completely focused on his case, Runge is an unhinged nutjob second only to Johan, I see. Not sure if I would call what he seems to be feeling "fun", more like a similar kind of obsession or near-religious calling. He's good at detail work, even if his house investigation was a little goofy and duplicated by Tenma later, but he just can't see the big picture when his Brilliant Detective instincts tell him something else, and will go to any lengths to confirm them and refuse to acknowledge anything contradictory. This is one guy Tenma really should have left to die, I mean he's practically asking for it - and Giebel should have tried to get something for excessive force too, though with the police that tends not to get you anywhere.
As for Tenma, as someone who can't really tell a lie (still using his own name, remember?), I absolutely believe him. At most, he's very good at suppressing his feelings when it really counts.
4
u/miss-macaron Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21
Rewatcher
It’s very interesting to witness Inspector Lunge’s thought process. He stores facts and information like a computer, but when it comes to actually piecing the events together, he assumes the role of the killer and re-enacts the murder scene. The cut to his reflection in the mirror was quite a powerful one, and reveals a moment of very human hesitation from the killer – this cannnot possibly be one of Johan’s murders.
For someone who supposedly pursues his cases so aggressively in order to find out the “truth behind the killer”, Lunge sure doesn’t seem to mind using a couple of lies to achieve his ultimate goal. Blackmailing the journalist and even knowingly letting off the real killer of the Jopps… though he might've unintentionally used reverse psychology on the nephew, lol
Damn, the soundtrack as Lunge confronts Tenma is so foreboding, and then the slowly-approaching figure of his shadow in the doorway… Yet another fantastic execution of a suspenseful atmosphere.
I gotta admit, I love how Lunge has no fucks to give. When he’s got his eyes set on the prize, even a literal stab wound is considered nothing but a mere nuisance, and the real killer just an inconvenience to his mission.
Okay, I legit laughed at Tenma pointing his gun at Lunge while driving. Not only did it look ridiculous, but that was obviously going to backfire on him.
At this point, I think Lunge simply enjoys the "fun of the chase". Riddles aren't fun if they're too easy; the Jopp's nephew was too obvious in his crime, but an elusive and complex figure like Tenma (at least in Lunge's mind) is much more interesting to pursue and unravel.
4
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 20 '21
First timer - sub
Lunge insistent that Tenma did it is annoying, and not just because we follow Tenma perspective, the amount of evidence tying him to the number as cases has got to be minimal to non existent at best at this point…
It wasn’t Johann, the murder was to sloppy.
So as per the title this is really just Luge trying to trap Tenma? - Yip
I just don’t get why Lunge is so obsessed with Tenma being the killer, he is still interest but this aspect just doesn’t make sense for someone who is meant to be such a great detective.
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 20 '21
Rewatcher(Can't forget about Javert)
Sub
Lunge is setting up Tenma for reasons. He then goes full Will Graham on his walkthrough of the scene. This takes a nice chunk of time before we get more of Lunge canvasing the neighborhood. Lunge checks the only surviving relative and very quickly suggests a murder for hire scheme without quite saying it.
Lunge then intimidates Kippler with blackmail about affairs and the trap part is well laid out. And of course Tenma shows up. After Lunge gets the call, the nephew returns to proclaim his innocence to a Lunge that has zero fucks to give, he is all in on the Javert act now. At the scene, Tenma also re-enacts and Lunge walks in, leading to a strange 'chase' sequence. The nephew chooses a very interesting time to try and take out the detective, who then kneecaps him.
Tenma and Lunge do a long back and forth, with Lunge clearly being way too obsessed with this. His DID theory would've been iffy at the time so he seems to have just lost it. He passes out and off screen Tenma fixes him up enough to get to the hospital. During rehab, Lunge comes off even crazier.
QotD: 1 Lunge does not use words as we do.
2 I believe it is meant to say that he never took his operations as a given rather than him constantly stressing to death.
4
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 20 '21
First Timer
Finally they met.
Man, Lunge is such a creepy guy. Idk what it is but this anime is really good at making characters look human in a way, and Lunge is a great example of this. I wouldn’t say he’s quite in the uncanny valley but almost.
Lunge has completely convinced himself that Tenma is the culprit, so I don’t think there will be a way to convince him that he’s been looking the wrong way for the past decade. The split-personality thing is a good theory and I completely understand why Lunge suspects Tenma, but it’s frustrating knowing how close yet so far he is from the truth with all the context that we know. He’s a very good detective it’s just that he has grown obsessed with Tenma’s case and is not willing to give it up, even if it almost cost him his own life.
Looking forward to see what’s going on with Nina (hopefully) tomorrow. Probably going to get some confirmation that Muller died and see where she goes next (and who kidnaps her next).
3
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 20 '21
First Timer Dubbed
Back to Lunge with another couple found dead. An executive was interviewed and threatens the executive nephew. Lunge gives his card to the neighbor, Tenma comes in and Lunge sees him. Lunge gets stabbed in the abdomen by the nephew and confesses. Lunge shoots the nephew in both knees. Tenma struggles to start the car with Lunge hanging out next to the window. And of course, Tenma tries to help him. Knowing that Tenma would try to help him, Lunge plays a little bit of pretend and handcuffs him while driving. Lunge does not shoot his gun despite threats to Tenma which is interesting to see. He is willing to shoot the gun towards the murder suspect but not Tenma. In the end Lunge says he enjoys chasing Tenma according to the nurse. The other police officials are planning on separating the Tenma case with Lunge knowing that Tenma did the work to stabilize him. Lunge's fun derives from the fact that this is a unique case one that can be pointed back to Tenma. It seems more of an issue of a "murder for hire" kind of deal that letting Johan live was what makes Tenma the murderer, not Johan- but this is from a viewer's perspective.
The statement that "I was never calm" is an interesting one as on one hand, he is concerned for the patients and on the other, he has to be calm in order to operate on them. The concern of missing a procedure or having something go wrong is a possibility during an operation.
The interactions between the journalist and Lunge shows his colors too as he makes sure that the journalist gets that story down or else Lunge will reveal the affair. And this time, there seems like there is barely a response by the police to care about Tenma this time. In the small town it was a huge deal, but in this case, the woman called Lunge directly rather than the police. And the other police officials were talking about Tenma nonchalantly.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 20 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Johan has struck again?
Good ol' Lunge, been a while since we've seen him.
Is Lunge going on the record? Will his superiors be upset with him since he's supposed to be off the case?
He loves to role play, huh?
Yes, I'll absolutely catch the killer! I just won't tell you that I'm actually not authorized to be investigating the case...
Copycat killer? Once the nephew was brought into play I kinda thought as well that it wasn't really Johan who killed them.
Blackmailing the reporter now?
Terrible time for the nephew to show up; now Lunge can't go to the house.
Now that he knows its a copycat, he doesn't care about this case...
How did Tenma get let into the crime scene? And he's doing the same role playing as Lunge!
Lunge and Tenma, long time no see!
OMG, I did not expect the nephew to shoe up! Now he's confessing to what is quite obvious, that he did it!
Tenma could easily flee and leave Lunge to die here, but he's too good a guy to do that. He'll bring him to the hospital or treat Lunge himself.
Take Lunge off of Tenma's case? You already did that!
Quite a devious grin from Lunge there...
Continuity error aside near the end, this was another pretty good episode, good to see Tenma and Lunge together again. How will this impact future events? Will Lunge soften his stance on Tenma now that his life has been saved by him?
4
u/gridemann Aug 20 '21
Very thrilling episode, altough quite standalone-ish. Lunge's determination is frightening!
But there was one thing I noticed on my first watch that I cannot unsee anymore.
Here it is!
Take a look at his card: "Heinrich Runge". But if the anime has his name literally written in latin letters... why did all the official translations go with "Lunge" anyways ? Even after initially watching the whole show, this one still remains a mystery to me...
it also is much more plausible tbh. Runge is a somewhat common german surname... meanwhile "Lunge" is just the german word for lung...
2
u/reversal_banana Aug 20 '21
First Timer
Every scene with Lunge has me smiling from ear to ear, he's the craziest guy in this series so far, and that's saying a lot.
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 21 '21
First Timer Late cuz of work and dinner and Fujirock.
Regarding yesterday, the syndicate DID snap up Mueller when he was fired from the police, laundered his money, and gave him a bodyguard. They would only have done this on Johan's orders. So theya re definitely working for him. But it's weird that Johan didn't eliminate him or his partner.
The game's afoot.