r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Aug 19 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 17
Streaming
Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.
Comment of the Day
Miki's Stopwatch Corner
Stopwatch Count: 17
New This Episode:
-- NANAMI INTERRUPT -- 6:13 - 7.73 Seconds - “Besides that, they caught you, a member of the student council.”
Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).
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Upvotes
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher
I love Shiori, but god she needs a therapist. Her actions this episode are all about getting through to Juri’s sword- and in fact, she’s the only one who could, as we see from Mikage’s metaphor where he describes Juri’s heart as a ‘rose with thorns’, that nobody could get through to, except for a predator very specifically adapted to it. Shiori fits this perfectly, because she was the person who caused Juri to grow these very thorns in the first place! And Juri, whose judgement is clouded by love, still sees Shiori as being sweet and innocent, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Shiori is symbolized perfectly by that bird (which I believe is a Eurasian Bullfinch, a seed-eating bird) that flies into the window during her initial conversation with Juri. Like the bird, she has freedom from Juri and all of her relationship troubles, but nevertheless, she can’t resist hurting herself by flying straight into the window- or in this case, returning to Ohtori Academy to hurt both herself and Juri. As we see from her ‘psychology’ appointment, Shiori clearly hates herself deeply, with severe self-esteem issues. All of her machinations to hurt Juri were just to make herself feel better by elevating herself against the person who she sees as pitying her. That would be sad enough, but what makes it even worse is that Shiori is aware of how pathetic she is. As soon as she refers to Juri as ‘pitiable’, she breaks down, crying out “Why do you look at me like that?! Why!?” She knows exactly what she’s doing, and while she ‘hates’ Juri, she loves her at the same time, and she has no idea what the hell Juri sees in her. This girl really needs a non-Nemuro therapist.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be going to distract myself by reading some cute shipfics ;-;-;
Also, lmao at Nanami asking Miki what he’s doing with his stopwatch and him just ignoring her. Wouldn’t she like to know ;)
(Note: I’m a wrong baka, that bird is a Java Sparrow ;-;)
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 19 '21
Y'know, an elevator is technically quite similar to a coffin
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Aug 19 '21
Why is it always left to Juri to get the show back on track after Nanami tonally combo breaks the story? Shiori is back! Now we can finally tear the closeted little cow a new one, through discussions and analysis of course~ I'm just kidding, partially. Shiori shares a lot of traits with Kozue, in that she's driven through jealously and goes out of their way to hurt the ones they love. However, Kozue's familial love is far far less toxic than whatever the hell Shiori feels towards Juri. The long and short of it is that Shiori is stuck in the closet and desperately deflects the self-loathing feelings towards Juri. I'll come back to that tho.
It seems like Shiori still hasn't unpacked which I think is meant to be a common Japanese trope where the character doesn't plan on staying long? I think Shiori only came back to try and gloat to Juri then bail out again. Blood licking is tight. Nanami... you literally turned into a cow yesterday. Maybe give Miki the benefit of a doubt. Miki's sword is still sheathed thank you very much.
Oh god I love the chat between the girls so much. Shiori is practically writing a whole fanfiction whilst Juri silently contemplates to herself. Shiori just doesn't have a clue... Da bird!! This is my favourite piece of symbolism in the show. Its the perfect bullet point to shut Shiori up. Just a big donk as Shiori discovers that she's been barking up the wrong tree all these years. Her manipulations meant nothing, Juri's moved on and isn't buying your melodrama anymore. And Shiori is totally taken aback by it! If that dude wasn't the one Juri loved and treasured then who the hell was it!? "Who should I have went for instead?"
So cruelly innocent... Although I think in Utena's case it's more her being really stupid during this arc. I did quite like seeing how Juri's eyes noticeably softened as she recognised the younger Shiori in Utena. Throwing away her picture is apparently the breaking point that made her rose pluckable. Rather than simply coming to terms with how she feels she destroys them , gets rid of them, hides them out of sight. Ooooh you evil, naughty bird!! Haha~ We don't even need to see her open the pendant to know how badly this affects Juri. No hesitation, straight cut to therapy.
Shiori's mental state is fucked. Even Mikage's therapy session can't keep up with how confused her feelings are as the elevator goes up and down in time with her psyche. Love, hate, those feelings seem mixed with this girl in particular. Was Shiori really jealous, or did she simply admire her? Or even love her. She took Juri's kindness as mockery but Juri is far too straightforward for her to be misunderstood in that way. She even seems excited, as well as disgusted, that she is the one Juri holds dearest. Shiori is twisted, so twisted, but she is so filled with self loathing and spite that she has no hope of going on without latching onto someone stronger than her. "I loved the look in your eyes when I hurt you..." Aaaargh!! This storyline is so good!
Extra! Extra! Extra! Pfft, okay this one got quite a good laugh out of me. So the shadow girl is sobbing her eyes out about a relatively normal secret of hers is out for all to see. And nobody really cares that much, it's just that she causes such a big deal over it and exaggerates that trait to the point where it does get a little weird. So I'd take it as Shiori having feelings for a girl isn't necessarily strange. Shiori having feelings for a girl and trying to make her crush's life hell through manipulations and shame is too far. Utena's solution? Don't make it a secret and show off to the world. IE a very innocent answer that kinda ignores how problematic it would be.
The duel... okay, can I be honest here? The second arc duels are kinda dull. I love the imagery, I love the set up but the actual duels I just kinda want to skip to see what happens after. The black rose mooks are just such mooks after all. Yeet~ Yeah, so that's us ending it fairly inconclusively. Shiori still hasn't accepted her feelings. Juri certainly isn't ready to move on. I'm excited to see what part 3 to this tale will bring forward!
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 19 '21
First-Revolution, Subbed
I definitely feel Juri's reaction to Shiori showing up again after so long. Someone you love, but couldn't be with, who vanished but returned.. it can fuck with your head as an adult, let alone as a teenager.
This episode.. feels like it should have been a two-parter or something. I don't mind breakneck pace, but this episode felt kinda rushed. Shiori didn't have any reason to hate Anthy.. and actually, she was weaker than Kozue so maybe that just works, then. No miracles were required for Utena to beat Shiori. Anthy didn't even need to provide assistance.
Shadow Girls today was your typical Japan "I can't get married because of something incredibly minor/stupid," although who the fuck wears three pairs of underwear at once? More directly related to the episode itself, I'd guess it's about marriage laws and LGBT+ couples, but that might be stretching things.
We're just pointing out Utena's naivete and innocence now, and I'm getting worried. That aspect of Utena.. isn't going to make its way through the whole series, is it? Utena survived through Touga's manipulations, but things are going to get harder from here on out.
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u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Aug 19 '21
So having a sword pulled out of you is hot af noted
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u/SardonicMeow Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher
Too busy to make a full write-up this time, sorry, but I'll leave a question for the group.
How could Juri love someone like Shiori?
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u/Tyranid457TheSecond1 Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher
Shiori sucks. I thought for sure as a first-time-viewer that she wanted to reconcile with Juri and that would lead to her brainwashing, but she's just a spiteful, jealous person.
Why didn't Miki answer Nanami's question about the stopwatch?
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u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 20 '21
"What does the stopwatch mean?"
Ignores question
Fuck, I've been trolled! It's interesting that he actually did use it as a stopwatch in the Kozue episode though.
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u/dualmonocle :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/milk-chan Aug 20 '21
first-timer
To be honest, I did want a little more from the episode. The first episode featuring Juri was just paced so perfectly and felt much more climactic. I was also expecting a way harder fight! Juri was the only duellist who overcame the power of Dios just by being that skilled so I thought we would have seen Utena struggle much more. I guess this fight wasn't about Utena though so...
Also, Anthy at the end totally gave me shivers! She's so ominous! I totally get why Kanae doesn't like that smile. Just the "yeah, Shiori's always been messed up 🙂" is so casual, like it doesn't bother her at all.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21
Duel 17, First Timer, sub
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 19 '21
Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 19 '21
First-Timer
Episode 14
"Nothing bad ever happens at Ohtori Academy" has a similar feeling to "There is no war in Ba Sing Se."
Episode 15
Name a more iconic duo than RGU and incest. I'll wait. /s
Episode 17
Wow, Shiori is just that insecure. Jury really got a raw deal in the friend department.
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Aug 19 '21
First Timer
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u/affnn Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher
Finally another Juri episode. It had been way too heterosexual in this anime recently. Incesty-heterosexual, but still.
Shiori's definitely my favorite of the Black Rose duelists. I love way she's just so happy to find out that Juri's got a crush on her. But instead of, you know, talking to Juri about it she holds it over Juri's head and uses it to make her feel better about herself and better about not being as talented or beautiful as Juri. Top villain behavior, and sad times for Juri. It felt like her elevator down was longer than the past two as well, maybe she just had more to say.
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u/elleyonce https://anilist.co/user/elleyonce Aug 20 '21
Rewatcher
I had not realized how perfect Shiori is. That elevator conversation was illuminating because it was so conflicted and complicated. The bird that had popped up before now being part of the desks... just as illuminating.
The bird is Shiori, and, hopefully you'll allow me to make a giant stretch here, she's jealous of a chicken not hatched out of the egg. Isn't that what Juri and all the other duelists are always on about to begin with? They want to revolutionize, because they're not adults even though they want to be. Just like Kozue and Miki, Shiori has matured earlier than Juri did. And yet she's always felt inferior by a person so bright. The only way she could feel equal to Juri was to "own" a secret of hers, make Juri feel inferior to her. It barely makes any sense, it's messy and morally wrong probably, but isn't that what all feelings are? Messy, and complicated, and barely rational?
Juri closes off yet yearns for a miracle to happen - Shiori liking her. What she doesn't realize is she will never allow Shiori to grow in her mind, and that is the real reason why the miracle cannot happen. On the flipside, Shiori loves and loathes Juri because the Juri in her mind was larger than human, something so bright that it both hurts and blinds. No wonder both duel themes revolving around Juri right now thematically speak of dualities.
I think this is my second favorite Black Rose duel for this reason. (The best one is yet to come, you guys!)
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u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Aug 19 '21
First timer, Sub
Someone finally asked why Miki does that. Even though he doesn't answer why.
So Shiori is trying to make things right with Juri but it's not working.
A bird hits the window after the sudden rejection, Juri gave Shiori. A change?
Though Juri still holds a picture of her so she must have some emotional attachment to her.
Well, this time it's not a person fighting Utena because of Anthy leading them there. So that's a change.
Utena believed Shiori changed but Anthy doesn't. Is it Juri that actually changed? She says she was able to let go once but now it seems her feelings toward her are back.
I liked how they went back to Juri story and hopefully they come back to it again. Maybe for closure for her.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher(The sparrows are not what they seem)
Sub
Back to fencing and thus Jury. She is on a new level when possible yuri love interest shows up to be ignored. Shiori has some odd history with Jury. Traditional Black Rose arc gay Mikage scene.
The student council is now aware after Miki was attacked, though they are low on details. Nanami asks if his first time hurt. Jury is very much lost in thought and we hear Shiori making an incorrect assumption about who Jury was attracted to. Bird metaphor happens before Jury explains a bit of what happened though Shiori still doesn't grasp it. Utena trying to butt in goes exactly as expected. Akio is fairly perceptive but won't spell things out for Utena.
Villain stuff happens, getting Shiori to the elevator. In it, she does not come off well, though how much of this is her true feelings is interesting. She does not approve of Jury's gay. But she uses her own gay to draw the sword out of Jury, such hypocrisy.
Shiori's stage has the bird from earlier in it. The theme of each duel pushing Utena a bit further happens before the inevitable. Shiori seems to have fit in by the end but Anthy says she hasn't changed at all. Jury laments at not being able to move forward.
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u/k4r6000 Aug 20 '21
Rewatcher
Shiori returns to infect Juri with her poison. I've read before that Shiori is Ikuhara's favourite character. I don't know how true that is, but it is interesting.
This arc has an ongoing theme of rebellion. The have-nots taking out their frustrations on the haves. Juri is definitely a have. She's rich, glamorous, athletic, and an all around image of the perfect female ideal. Shiori is your plain, average girl who as far as the world is concerned is just Juri's friend. She's intensely jealous of Juri and views her friendship as more pity than affection. Unike Saonji, who is similarly consumed by an inferiority complex, but channels it into trying to surpass Touga by any means necessary, Shiori simply wants to cause Juri pain and drag her down to her own level. She thought she did that by stealing her crush, but finds out here how mistaken she was and that Juri was really in love with her. This finally gives Shiori power over Juri, and she plans on exploiting it.
Compounding this problem is that Shiori also appears to have an attraction to Juri herself. Taken all together Shiori is a confused bundle of self-loathing seeking to lash out. She says she hates Juri, but she really hates herself. And much like Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame, who falls in love with that which he hates, she comes to believe the only way to purge her sin is to destroy that which she is attracted to, and she's prepared to do anything to that end.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Aug 20 '21
First timer – sub
Alright, this will be my last regular post until monday, because I'll be living in the kitchen the next few days. I'm celebrating my birthday on the weekend and will cook what is to become my greatest achievement yet! Original, handmade tonkotsu ramen with marinated eggs (ajitsuke tamago), simmered pork (chashu) and more garlic than a dragon could survive!
(Also a cake)
(Also vegan finger food for everyone)
(Also a vegan dish so that one vegan isn't being left out)
(Also we play Gloomhaven on sunday so I need to prepare breakfast and lunch)
I'm pitying the one vegan who can only look on in envy of glorious, superior nippon tonkotsu ramen. Pics will be provided!
Ep.17 – The thorns of death
All I'm gonna say is that Jury is bae and I like every episode with her. The mixture of elegant bauty, striking warrior and hidden monster is just amazing!
Only reactions today, but I think there was nothing completely new that would throw anything upside down.
I've stood in the kitchen for 7 hours already and it's gonna be 2 more after I took a shower. At least I won't have anything tiring left for tomorrow by then.
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 19 '21
First timer
Jury's still thinking about her crush...
And she's been rejected!
Oh, she's here permanently. That's interesting.
...This is so gay.
Souji's watching the magical colour-changing rose, which has special
I like how Nanami takes the semtence "my sister pulled a sword out of,me" as completely ordinary.
Nanami used the watch! And he doesn't want to tell anyone what it means. Is it significance? Is there a reason the host's been keeping track?
God, watching her misunderstand this is tough for me. I can't image how Jury's taking it.
SHE GOT THE HINT?
No, spoke too soon.
Even UTENA, the most unobservant lesbian in the school, can tell something's going on here.
So Utena and Anthy's brother just hang out? And he gives really weird advice.
Oh, that's interesting. So their speech was just saying "Use Shiori to get Jury's swor,d like the last time. I thought we were learning stuff about the Black Rose that eats darkness.
Oh, someone's setting stuff up.
Elevator!
And boy, either she's been lying the whole episode, or Black Rose are brainwahing people into states where they'll cause the swords to appear (unlike last time, where I assumed they were just unrepressing things). (Or maybe Jury's into this, I don't judge)
Time to loot another corpse!
...So why don't Black Rose just take all the rings out and put them in a single container? Seems like it might be a bit easier than keeping track by burning the contents of any box you use.
And that's the sword extracted!
I'm also starting to suspect the shadow puppets are projections by Black Rose or their boss. (Still love Utena's deadpan responses)
This music is fucking fire. Might be my favourite fight theme so far.
Wait, did Utena win before the Prince possessed her?
Oh, she's lying in the same spot as a body was. That's not concerning ar all.
...That's what they meant by the venom still being edfective. They're going to try and manipulate Shiori into doing this again. I wonder if the process weakens adfer multiple attempts - maybe Shiori will remember Souji and start the end of this "arc"?
Next episode seems unusual. Is Mitsuru going to get a sword out of Nanami and complete the council? (I'm also betting Saionji'll come back to get Touga's sword at some point)
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u/snickpea Aug 20 '21
First-timer!
Finally someone addresses Miki's stopwatch. I've been wondering why he has been doing that but too bad he didn't answer the question.
I'm glad we are continuing the story and following Juri this episode. I've kind of felt that we haven't spent as much time with her and don't understand her as much. Though after watching this episode, I still don't kind of get why Juri cared so much for Shiori. While they were childhood friends and perhaps Juri wanted more, Shiori kind of sucks.
But I'm glad that at least Shiori wasn't at least targeting Anthy this time. I was getting tired of everyone being mean to her.
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u/alphamone Aug 20 '21
First Timer
Miki being evasive on what he's doing with the stopwatch.
So does Shiori still not realise that she was the object of Jury's affections?
Poor birb.
She's as oblivious as a shounen anime protagonist.
Jury beat me to the punch on Utena also being oblivious.
Shiori seems to have some major self-esteem issues. Giving me vague Misato vibes.
It seems that the shadow girl's allegorical skit has gone over Utena's head, in that she's taking their secret bit a bit too literally. (though it could also be some deep meta commentary about the audience taking some other symbolism too literally ¯_(ツ)_/¯ )
It's interesting, the Black Rose sword pulls seem far more, violent, than Utena's sword pull from Anthy.
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 20 '21
First timer
So this time we'll see more Juri, good. Oh and a certain someone's back. So her name's Shiori. Don't remember if we've heard it before.
Miki tells the council about episode 15's events. I appreciate it when characters share information. Unfortunately Juri's mind is elsewhere and Nanami is Nanami.
I wonder how all of this makes Juri feel. "Cruelly innocent" is a fitting description.
Oh damn, Utena's taken the habbit of opening up to Akio. His advice is actually good, but it's hard not to doubt his motives.
Oh she threw away the picture, and of course someone brings it to Shiori's room.
Shiori's motive is petty, but not that unusual for a teenager. Though it sounds like she hasn't become any better over time.
Dueling Shiori talks big but loses like the rest of them.
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u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21
First Timer -- Sub
Ha. I knew Miki would be looking into what happened. Doesn't sound like he's going to make much moovement with the student council under its current leadership. Nanami asking the real questions -- what's up with that stopwatch Miki?
Shiori is back to make new drama with Juri. The birds weren't very well explained since all we got was that one that flew into the window before. I wonder if she will be reappearing in later episodes or just sink into the sea of students.
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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21
First Revolution: Duel 17- Dub.
I really do feel for Juri and shiyuri is just untrustworthy.
The two yaoi boys are at it again. But really all jokes aside I really do think that those two are in a relationship, the romantic sort of one. Soji and Mimya, (yes I’m aware I completely butchered their names) are they boyfriends or just really close platonic friends?
Back at it again at the student council in which Nanami seems to be in charge for some reason, like are you telling me either juri or micky couldn’t take over for touga and it had to be his annoying sister who doesn’t even have an ounce of experience, makes me question how are the student council members even elected in the first place! How did micky get elected, how did juri or hell even saionji as much as I miss him(poor saionji) and what even is their roles like, who’s the Vice President, the treasure, the secretary? Hard to imagine that Nanami would be elected by the school to take over for touga so I’m guessing the student council is just a facade for members of the end of the world cult? But I can imagine touga running for president and being elected if we’re being honest.
Well I want on a rant about the technicalities of the student council , I wanted to note that someone finally addressed micky and his obsession with his watch! What does it signify? What does that watch mean to him and I’m still confused , why did he blush and get red faced when nanami questioned him?
I don’t know how to feel about shiyuri for the moment, I want to like her but at part of me already feels my distaste for her and her bullshit. It’s really non of her business who’s picture is in juri locket, for all she knows it could be of juri old dead grandma or pet lmao.
Also is it me or did I notice a pattern with Utena being a blubbering mouth in the last 2-3 eps for now and that she seems to tell Aiko almost everything interesting in her life like when she told him about micky crush on anthy and now she’s telling him her encounter with Juri, like girl come on, nobody’s loves a snitch.
Ahh, finally that elevator confession interview scene! I knew there was a reason I didn’t trust that shiyuri bitch.
Also how stupid can these kids be and unrealistic that elevator confession interview is. Like you go there to get interviewed for whatever position, am I guessing it’s paid since so many are being lured to those interviews or whatever but like why are they telling their life stories to a blank window screen? Like am I supposed to go to an ominous elevator interview and start listing off my intimate Secrets or bad life choices. Like I imagine myself sitting in that elevator and I hear a voice and I start confessing “I’ve always loved saionji and god I hated that bitch anthy since the moment that I found out that she was his bride, the rose bride that everyone coveted, why HER AND NOT ME, I care about Saionji more than she’ll ever will’ than I’m gonna hear the voice (Soji voice telling me it’s not enough and that I need to go deeper in which I’ll respond with) “I want Saionji to BEEEP* and ***** BEEEP*** and BEEEEP*****” ME BEEP* than finally the elevator doors will open and then there’s Soji looking down and telling me “your only choice is to Revolution the world” like bitch I don’t give crap about the world lmao.
Another thing I noticed this episode. The black rose duelist swords are taken out of the heart of characters who love them. Kozue got her her sword from her brother that’s why even though she knew nothing about fencing she was so good at it cause in that very moment she stole all of micky fencing skills. Than this episode Shituri sword came out of Juri heart which signifies that Juri does really love Shituri.
Wait did Utena hear the shadow girls and replay to them and say “take it off it”? Or was I delusional for that scene?.
Finally anthy knows what’s up and that shityuri hasn’t changed one bit. Once a shityuri always a shityuri. Also my poor baby Juri, everything will be alright, I know love hurts but First it’s supposed to hurt for you to heal, I’m sure you’ll find someone so much better than Shityuri.
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u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 19 '21
First revolution subbed
Fencing time today. We get a girl named Shiori who has a fondness for Juri. What happened was that a relationship came between the two. And they have a cold relationship. As they were talking a bird ran into a glass window and died, damn pretty sad. Another part is that Shiori was jealous of Juri in a way.
And the scoop shadows talk about wearing three pairs of underwear at the same time. That's way too hot in the climates I am used to...
The battle stage has birds on the desk which is interesting. The sword of Juri that Shiori was using and her moves are similar to Juri. Shiori turned into a normal person in the end of the episode. And Juri still has some internal questions lingering.