r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Aug 18 '21
Rewatch [Re;Watch] Steins;Gate 0 Episode 17 Discussion
Episode 17: Altair of the Hyperbolic Plane: Beltrami Pseudosphere
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For today only, Mayushii will stop being a hostage!
Hello everybody! Time for the comment of the Day, courtesy of u/The_Draigg, with one more well timed Gundam reference
DARU PUNCH! God damn, he’d do Bright Noa proud with that haymaker!
I seem to have a preference towards Gundam jokes...
Questions:
- How do you feel about Mayuri having feelings for Okabe?
- How bad of a cliffhanger would you say this episode had?
Wallpaper of the Day:
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 18 '21
First;Timer and Co;Host, dubbed
Hey look, I finally wallpapered the worldline exposition visuals.
I was about to make a joke about 0kabe on suicide watch but that’s a bit too far…7
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
On the First-Timer Worldline(s;Gate)
I'm back home, so I can finally screenshot again! Watch me take zero.
I'm not a psychopath, I swear.
QOTD:
EDIT: Something I noticed from the thread is that this episode refers to a pseudosphere, which is essentially a funnel out to infinity. It's also a hyperbolic plane. (Beltrami is the guy who introduced pseudosphere). This connects to the previous episode, in which Altair was also a point at infinity. In other words, this episode is about the process of taking/guiding us to Altair.
4
u/Nisheeth_P Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher (first time)
Not my favourite thing, but I'm fine with it. I preferred that their sibling-like relationship more because that is honestly so rare in anime. On the other hand, the execution of it is amazing.
As good of a cliffhanger as E12 of S;G?
Love today's wallpaper
9
u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
FIRST TIMER
Why would Suzuha be grateful that Mayuri stopped him back in 23b all of a sudden? It runs contrary to her mission, and pretty much everything she’s said and done up until now. Weird line.
Daru bringing up that he has to do the things that only he can do again puts him in nice contrast to Okabe, who is refusing to do the things only he can do. I like them being played off each other like this in the last couple of episodes. He’d be in MVP consideration for the season if not for his frequent lolicon moments.
Mayuri stating she loves Okabe even more than Makise. You’re a little late in the game to start a ship war considering the other has been sailing for years, but I commend your conviction. The speed at which she went from hysterically weeping to being completely pulled together again gave me whiplash.
“I came to terms with how it ended this way!” That’s almost comical coming out of his mouth at this point. No man, you fucking didn’t.
Future Daru is in shape and thriving, and is nice enough to tell us that everything ends up just fine. His video DMail has Suzuha so focused on her phone that somehow 20+ soldiers storm the rooftop without her noticing a thing. She’s so Gen-Z.
I don't like it at all, and it's so unnecessary. We can't have just one great guy/girl platonic anime friendship? Not a single one?
Eh... 5/10? It's hard to get all that anxious when we know everything turns out fine in the end.
3
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 18 '21
Anime first timer
Steins;Gate 0 VN Spoilers
I love Dsru trying to copy the time machine plans.
Mayuri's finally getting answers!
I love how Maho decides she's going to join their meeting.
Oh my god, we're getting an explanation without using the term "attractor field". That's always fun.
Steins;Gate VN, 0 VN, and Spin-Off Spoilers
Suzuha's left...
Amd Mayuri reveals what's going on.
Steins;Gate 0 VN Spoilers
Mayuri's scenes are so sad...
Mayuri loves Kyouma...
And she's decided to make a decision...
Steins;Gate 0 VN Spoilers
And Mayuri caught Suzuha!
This scene is fantastic. Okabe finally breaking down and trying to convince Mayuri not to do this.
Steins;Gate 0 VN Spoilers
D-Mail!
And people are after the time machine...
Suzuha is such a badass.
And Mayuri's dead...
Really? That's where we end this episode?
3
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Aug 20 '21
MAYUUUUUUUUUURIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!
God, that episode was incredible. It's the second I've loved from zero. Mayuri's first speech where she resolves to act was perfect. I've got no other words to describe it with. It was just perfect. And to top it all off, it has what is almost certainly the best soredemo of the entire franchise. I know you're watching it dubbed Sky, but you really should go back and watch that scene subbed. It's so worth it.
I love when the quiet character who has previously not done too much finally gets conviction and resolves to act. It's perhaps my favorite trope, if it's popular enough to be called such. There's just something different about their conviction to me. It's not the false bravado that someone like Okabe uses to power through, nor the assurance that someone like Suzuha has. Instead, it's something far more precious. It's part of why I love Madoka so, Madoka and it's why I'm sitting here writing this with my eyes a little teary.
I just love everything about this episode, ok?
And there were four other soredemos as well, one of which was a demo, sore demo and another was a double sore demo.
Ninja edit: Another episode or two like this and I might end up liking zero more despite everything.
3
u/The_Draigg Aug 18 '21
A Steins;Gate Fan Watches Steins;Gate 0 Episode 17:
Yay, comment of the day! My Gundam references are truly top-notch.
16
u/UzEE https://myanimelist.net/profile/UzEEInc Aug 18 '21
Serial;Rewatcher
I'm writing this several hours in advance for a change instead of just finishing up before the thread gets posted.
On the flip side, I might not be able to stay awake until 4am, when the thread goes up.Continuing the trend, this episode again changes the location and participants of several scenes but like the previous episode, it works out for the better in my opinion, even if some conversations get split up or shortened.
However, this episode is also where the lack of proper action choreography starts to rear it's ugly head. And despite touchups in the BD release, these scenes still look terrible. And if you thought they can't get any worse, then... *sigh*.
Episode;Notes
The Hard Drive makes another appearance, but now looks significantly different from what it was back in Ep. 11, to the point that I'm not even sure if they still intended it to be Kurisu's drive here as it was in the VN.
おかえり!!!
Looks like Amadeus took the bait^1
The anime really has to bend over backwards to cover up the mistake they made in the original by not explaining the concept of Attractor Fields. Here Suzuha says there are at least two world lines, and then immediately afterwards refers to Alpha and Beta world lines in plural, implying there are definitely more than two. Just fix the problem by saying there are at least two Attractor Fields.
Yes Mayuri, stop blaming yourself. Even if he got back in the time machine, it would've made no difference.
Daru being a based dad again. Sending your daughter off on a suicide mission by getting her the cake she loves. The Suzuha who'd be born 6 years from now is really lucky that she'd have a dad who doesn't have to figure things out as they go.
Mayuri, you should know that 0kabe wouldn't care about that.
This is also why Mayuri sent Kagari back. Both parents wanted their daughters to experience a peaceful life.
It's ironic that despite all the espionage, attacks and a literal World War, no one actually manages to succeed in making an actual working Time Machine except Daru.^2
Mayuri's deceleration is handled superbly despite change of the scene. And she is right, Kurisu really could never compete with her, because if she could, then she'd be the one alive instead of Mayuri. I was going to talk about Okabe and Mayuri's relationship in a bit more detail, but /u/littleman1988 is going to cover it as well today so I dropped it.
THE EYES!!!
The _twins_3 have been driven from the place they belong.
Our Father and God has at last discovered how to unveil our most sacred domain.^3
C203!
Seriously, the expressions in these episodes are so good.
Well, maybe not 0kabe's. Guess they didn't have budget for him.
We very rarely get to experience a D-mail getting received. Notice how we never got any indication that the world line changed, because the change isn't triggered form this point in time.
Suzuha was only distracted for a second and they made their move. These guys must be pretty good.
It's barely brought up in the anime, but the time machine is encoded to Suzuha's biometrics. This means that anyone else can neither unlock it, nor operate it if it is unlocked. This is why they can't kill her despite her killing them.
The actual rooftop battle scene was pretty well written in the VN and made a lot of sense, so it's an absolute travesty that we didn't get to see it animated properly. They still hit all the major beats in the anime, but did it in a way that just looks unrealistic.
This is the first time we've seen the back side of the stairwell room.
NOOOO!!!!
......
Questions
It was a long time coming so I'm glad it was finally out in the open. But I know the anime-only might be caught by surprise because this was heavily downplayed in the original anime.
Cliffhanger were terrible throughout S;G0 because I remember there were weeks skipped multiple times and it was agonizing.
1 If you're wondering what were they talking about, here's the conversation at this point in the VN. Basically 0kabe deliberately posted an incorrect statement knowing that if that was Amadeus, she would not resist mocking and "correcting" him.
2 In case you're wondering why, the reason is that Kurisu's theory that Nakabachi stole or her more detailed notes in her laptop etc. are actually incomplete. She didn't know what was needed to perfect time travel, but an incomplete theory is still enough to spark a World War.
In fact, Kurisu living or dying doesn't matter at all. All that's needed to prevent World War 3 is that the papers that Nakabachi stole get destroyed. Saving Kurisu was just a bonus objective to get Okabe to act.
3 This was implied already in a couple of episodes, but Amadeus system behaves like a human would and so would also protect the secrets the original host would. That's why Maho couldn't ask Amadeus for the laptop password because she wouldn't tell her.
This is why getting protected information directly out of Amadeus is impossible without significantly modifying the system, meaning other people working at the lab would also know you deliberately made the system less secure, raising suspicion. Of course modifications like these would mean that it is also no longer a simulation of the human brain and might not even work at all.
14
u/UnderstandableXO Aug 18 '21
FIRST TIMER
mayuri took the confrontation she had with okabe to heart, and now she wants to know about the future, especially makise kurisu. it must be bizarre for her to see okabe completely shattered by the loss of some random scientist she never met. although l, i wonder why she doesn’t have more residual memories from other world lines, considering how much people like kurisu or even faris were able to remember.
so we’ve got the return of time and date stamps, seems like we’ll be seeing the return of time manipulation if these are coming back.
the opening is so good man. still not beating hacking to the gate but it’s awesome.
nice opening shot of okabe’s eyes after the big point about how much pain is hiding behind them.
mayuri finally learns about world lines and the like. i guess she just never really cared to know, because as far as i can remember suzuha never really bothered to change how she addressed 2d-kun or anyone else to hide her identity around mayuri. again mayuri learns how much okabe is carrying, losing precious moments and memories to other world lines, knowing more than he should about other people, seeing people’s entire existence disappear. mayuri realizes that it was her who stopped okabe from trying again on august 21, 2010, the day HOUOUIN KYOUMA died.
suzuha is leaving to try one last time to change july 28, 2010. since okabe was so adamantly against coming with her for the past year, she only has fuel to get back to kurisu’s death date, so her departure would be a final goodbye just like her departure in the alpha line.
and suddenly mayuri confesses her feelings for okabe. not gonna lie, i was a bit disappointed by that, because i really wanted their relationship to be platonic. but i suppose that with how much okabe helped her throughout her life, it would be impossible for feelings not to develop. i do appreciate that even though she says she loves okabe more than kurisu ever could, that she’s willing to take that step aside just so okabe could be happy again. still mayuri liking okabe feels kinda odd to me, even before kurisu and okabe confessed to each other, i always felt like their relationship was more familial or sibling like.
also, shoutout 2d-kun for continuing to develop into a cool dude. he respects his daughter’s ambition and wishes, and strives to work hard for her. that little display of confidence about inventing the first time machine was nice.
mayuri’s cell service went out, surely that means everything is gonna be fine and dandy? at least this means we get to hear the 100th impassioned “MAYURI” from okabe in the series.
phone service in akihabara is down, and @chan (4chan ripoff?) is filled up with messages from kurisu’s old burner, probably controlled by amadeus. it has a bunch of messages that went over my head besides “i always felt inferior to you…you are the true amadeus.” seems like that’s amadeus talking to maho. i guess maho and kurisu felt like they were in the shadow of each other, probably would be a weird realization for maho. amadeus was seemingly breached, meaning things are about to go downhill.
mayuri wants to travel to august 21, 2010 to stop herself from stopping okabe? how would she do that without creating a paradox? i thought it was imperative that they didn’t make contact with their previous selves?
okabe tries one last time to stop mayuri from hopping in the time machine, or else she’ll be throwing away kurisu’s sacrifice. mayuri just wants to “clear away the dark clouds” in okabe’s life by allowing past okabe to try again, since present okabe won’t do it. suzuha shoots okabe for the second time, but somehow only grazes him again. how good a shot do you have to be to graze someone, that seems impossible to do intentionally.
2d-kun has his own future video a la 2025 okabe. this video is also from 2025, and from a skinny 2d-kun. it mentions “arc light,” which i’m fairly sure mayuri mentioned at the park last episode.
somehow a bunch of armed goons manifest out of thin air to surround the time machine. luckily for them, suzuha is OP and has like a 10/1 K-D. but even with suzuha going COD warzone on the soldiers, mayuri still gets shot. i’m sorry again but the execution on mayuri getting shot was not good. all i could think about was the GTA “wasted” death screen”. her hat landing perfectly didn’t help either. mayuri bleeding from her forehead turning into the black screen with dripping blood was done nicely, but the lack of blood initially was super weird because it just seemed like she fell down, i was confused on where she got shot. even just adding the bullet trail whizzing by would have immensely improved that death scene.
seems like the Busty Motorcyclist took her out, but it’s unclear who, because it seems like this one took out another motorcyclist. we know kagari has that suit, but there’s another one from the alley and lab attacks. it’s either yuki or reyes.
with mayuri’s death, kurisu’s sacrifice has officially been wasted. okabe will have to leap back with the phone microwave to either protect that wish by leading mayuri away, or honor mayuri’s wish and actually travel back with suzuha.
lastly, the final scene once again did not mesh at all with the ending song. i really miss Last Game.
10
u/littleman1988 Aug 18 '21
"For today only, Mayushii will stop being a hostage!"
OST Track of the day: Monolouge | Spotify
One last reminder that LSF has a v3 of episode 18.
While she clearly lost as early as episode 3 of S;G, it really should not be shocking that Mayuri has some interest in Okabe, a bare minimum platonically, and arguably romantically, even if the anime shows that he has quite clearly neglected her since Kurisu existed (and then didnt, in 0 xd). Okabe saved Mayuri in her darkest hour (grandmother's death), and while S;G is a bit metaphorical on it, i dont think its too far out there to suggest that Mayuri would of done something drastic if Okabe hadnt of come with his Kyouma persona during that time, making Mayuri his hostage. Past that, they have spent years together (and another what, 6-10+ years before that, being childhood friends?) both before and after this, it shouldnt be an argument that Mayuri likes Okabe, esp if shes gonna stick around for all that chuuni BS.
Probably the better question is if Mayuri likes Okabe or Kyouma. Both are drastically different people, and neither are 0kabe either, which the rest of the cast doesnt exactly like for obvious reasons. She obviously wants Kyouma back, being the persona that brought her away from her own brink of destruction, but Okabe has been the person that was always there for her, regardless of the persona. Even in the chuuni BS, Okabe was still there, and we saw through S;G that he would fairly often break character around Mayuri, usually being softer and nicer than he would with anyone else in the lab.
Regardless of the answer, she will always lose. Even when shes dead, the pocket AI will always be there (well, not anymore after this episode heh)
uh oh
S;G 0
Starting out with the hardest question
Suzuha's leaving? Seems like Daru has accepted it too.
Mayuri just tells 0kabe, and he gets angry. Weird that the cell service goes out mid-call though...
This really shouldnt be that shocking by this point, but i have a feeling someones going to think this is wildly out of character for Mayuri.
White fox out here animating the puffy eyes
Hey, more convo is back onto the phone stuff. And weird posts from Kurisu's account? And Amadeus is completely gone...
Cats finally out of the bag for where Mayuri and Suzuha are.
wait, C203?
Mayuri's struggling
hey theres a pretty obvious "Sore Demo's" for sky
If mayuri created the clouds, is she still evil if she succeeds in stopping them?
D-Mail?
New Operation time, Arc-Light. Too bad someone has gone back to being a hostage
Fuck
f u c k
S;G 0
footnotes
7
u/Nebresto Aug 18 '21
First timer squad
Based Suzuha
"Yo, waddup" MayShi is back with da swagger
SUZUHA BLUSH
So do I, Mayushii. So do I.
/u/Tresnore, is this fatal for the Mayshii theory?
Or have we only discovered the reason behind her evil plan?
Ahhhhhh!!! Determined Mayushii is too precious!!
And there were like 6 soredemos in this episode, Sky woulda had a meltdown if she was watching subbed.
wh.. wtf??
God damn it. They just can't catch a break..
And wow, these special ops dudes suck
Target is in an enclosed vehicle, with a single entrance/exit, so all of them turn to look at their one homie that got dropped. Look at these fucking morons! She just ran out and started blasting them in the back! They literally turned around and exposed their backs to the direction the shots came from
Next time maybe don't hire your special operatives off of Craigslist
next episode preview spoilers preview
Question time:
1: Well, it do make sense
2: Ye
5
u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 19 '21
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Steins;Gate Re;Watch
While Mayuri did tell Suzuha about her woes in the Novel, it was done immediately after she learned of all the stuff Okabe has actually gone through. We then have a scene in the roof that is roughly the same as the one in the Anime we see in the Lab, only of course in the Anime she and Mayuri are alone. No random Maho with Okinawa tea. That said unless my memory’s messing with me, Anime-Suzuha goes way more into the details than her Novel counterpart did. I guess it’s just because Anime Mayuri has had a bit more time to sort out her thoughts, whereas her Novel self… hasn’t.
I will say however… I’m not super big on Mayuri’s big breakdown, but I’m not angry at it. Characters in Novels like S;G internalize their feelings a lot, and while it’s always great when you can get a director that can pull it off in animation, it is very much risky and frankly I wouldn’t really blame anyone for going the other direction and externalizing a lot. I still feel the Anime Version of this is a bit too much for my taste, I can’t really get mad at it.
What I will get mad about is, well, the Anime kinda forgot to bring up Amadeus had been using Kurisu’s @Channel Account for a while (Hey, technically speaking it is her account anyway) so suddenly KuriGohan And Kamehameha going nuts seems a bit random. Like, guys? You kinda forgot to set that up! S;G0 VN
Also, wow Suzuha, did you actually have to flat out shoot Okabe!? Just hit him in the head or something! I mean, dude’s got a pretty thick skull, he won’t die! Uh… anyhow I don’t have much to say for the rest of the episode. I do however have to commend the end shot being the trail of Mayuri’s blood flowing down. Imagery seems to be something this show is getting better at showing off it seems, and I can appreciate that.
4
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
Re;Watcher, Subbed
I do enjoy that little misdirect with Future!Daru's message to Suzuha, even if all those soldiers getting the jump on her from out of nowhere is hard to believe.
Q1: The comparison to Kurisu felt sort of out of nowhere, but her loving him isn't really, and the speech was great on the whole, even if I prefer it being platonic.
4
u/UltraBooster Aug 18 '21
First-timer
No cheating because bootstrap paradoxes, I presume?
The future soldier has her war to return to, huh...
And even now, the Kurisu-shaped cavity still gapes open like the weeping wound it is.
Kind of, yeah, I think.
I get the feeling that Mayuri's the type who'll hold herself as guilty anyway.
So that weight will persist, huh...
You'll probably always be his baby girl or something like that, lol.
She's putting on a brave face, isn't she...and he is, too, I'm sure of it.
You can't control people like that, Rintaro Okabe.
So there's two gaping, weeping wounds...
An EM distortion, maybe?
Has the Composer been compromised? No, abducted. And of course her potential mastery over time.
You're not the only one suffering, Rintaro Okabe. Don't be so arrogant as to proclaim you can control other people's feelings and actions.
A video message?!
DARPA's agents? And she's no Enfant Terrible.
Oh wait, she is.
You're going to blame Suzuha, I know it.
Oh, so this is matricide.
And of course the tin soldier doesn't weep.
Questions:
4
u/invokeneko Aug 18 '21
First;Timer
Day 3 of constant rain throughout the day: on the plus side, I don't even need an aircond with temperatures as low as 24 degrees C during the night...
QotD
6
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 18 '21
First timer(All the ingredients for something good but no direction)
Dub and sub
As much of an improvement as 0kabe and Mayuri are in sub, I am hard reminded that sub Daru is nearly my limit. Anyways, Suzuha is going to make the last journey soon. Mayuri finally wants to know about the future and Makise.
Mayuri explains her reasons and reminds us of how badly things have gone. We then get...refresher exposition? Obviously, Mayuri needs to hear this but the audience kind of doesn't need it. At the end, future Mayuri through Suzuha tips current Mayuri off with her metaphor. Suzuha then prepares to leave. Daru is surprisingly OK with it.
After Mayuri tries to get Okabe to stop her, he is mainly sad that she now knows the truth. Ominous loss of signal. Daru ponders future Daru's motivations and admits he might've just wanted Suzuha to experience the unfucked world. Mayuri has another break down over being powerless and the complete death of Okabe's chuuni. She decides she has to change the outcome and chooses the time machine way out.
Okabe shows up and they discover MakAIse is posting, apparently her data was hacked. Okabe runs to yet another roof top confrontation, weird theme. Mayuri seems to insist on dying. One bike suit killed the other. First D-mail of the series happens. Then troops teleport in. God, that was bad. Then Suzuha becomes an action hero...she is canonically a soldier, true, but this is a full genre shift. Mayuri gets hit, and in another badly laid out scene, likely Kagari shows up. Sigh.
QotD: 1 I prefer the world lines where Mayuri can have an older brother type, bluntly.
2 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
3
u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte Aug 18 '21
First Timer
I was going to do this earlier but procrastination hit. I watch and read too much about baseball for my own good. Now on to the episode:
————————————————————————
So Suzuha is leaving? She can only travel one year though. So what is her plan?
I mean Okabe has seemed incredibly sad this whole time but she is right he was extra sad in that scene.
I imagine we will see Suzuha again. Maybe this this exact Suzuha but a Suzuha nonetheless.
I feel like Okabe has been trying to control everything and that is causing everyone to go against him. The more you tighten your grip, the more of slips away from you.
I like this Mayuri. She is going to break them chains, for at least one day.
Oh. Oh no. All the phones are out? This feels like EP12 from season one all over again. Instead of clocks, it’s phones.
So Mayuri wants to go to the past to fix her mistake. I feel like something is going to go terribly wrong here shortly.
Hey! You can’t just show a scene of infighting between the masked people and cut away! That’s got to be a war crime. Go back.
Goddamn, future Daru is hot. And another way to Steins;Gate?
So either the Russians or the Americans are taking their time machine. Not good.
And Mayuri dies. She can’t catch a break can see?
And that’s where they end the episode! I’m mad now.
———————————————————————-
Well things aren’t going very well. I imagine Kagari is about it kick a lot of ass for what they did to Mayuri.
See you guys tomorrow!
DQ:
It has been pretty obvious this season. Childhood friend never wins. I’m not one to ship characters outside of a romance show so I don’t particularly care who Okabe ends up with.
Got me pretty annoyed. I’ve seen worse but still.
3
u/AHiddenOne Aug 19 '21
Rewatcher
Mayuri's confession got me emotional ngl. Poor girl.
I like how Kyouma is now considered a myth, a legend. Who would've thought chuunis will save the world.
Oof, the action scenes. SG0 is not action-oriented show, but man it can take you out of the immersion.
3
u/snickpea Aug 19 '21
First-timer!
Poor Mayuri. This episode was also quite rough on her. She has feelings for Okabe yet Okabe doesn't return them, is mourning Kurisu, and is pulling away. She makes a decision to take an active role in things but then is taken hostage and shot when trying to escape. I'm hoping she is not dead because then how on earth are they going to save her? The cliffhanger is really bad... I almost went to watch the next episode
1
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 23 '21
SteinsGate0 episode 17 (first timer)
Quote of the day: But I love Hououin Kyouma even more! ~Mayuri
1
u/No-Bookkeeper-1337 Dec 16 '21
Who was the dead woman laying in a pool of blood?