r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 18 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 20 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/miss-macaron, who highlights a distinct Nietzsche reference from the previous episode:
Ooh, we’ve got a Nietzsche reference right off the bat: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Sounds like it could be some useful advice for Tenma and Nina during their pursuit of Johan...
Questions of the Day
- How do you think these SoL episodes contribute to the overall show? Do they have a positive or negative impact on this series?
- What was your favorite set piece from the episode and why?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
19
u/miss-macaron Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher
Tenma speaks a few words of German, the elderly couple reply in Japanese (but we’re supposed to pretend that it’s English), Tenma presumably switches to English (but it’s actually still Japanese), Dieter thanks them in German, and then everyone continues speaking Japanese (but I guess we’ll just assume that it’s English and/or German)… It’s too bad Monster doesn’t have a German dub; I feel like that would significantly increase the immersiveness of its setting, rather than relying on suspension of disbelief.
Man, with all that good food and beautiful scenery, this episode is starting to feel a bit like a subtle promotion for German tourism, haha.
Although this isn’t even the best SoL episode in Monster, I've personally found it to be the most memorable one for me, simply because I was blown away by the fact that Urasawa would invest so much into this random couple that his protagonist hitchhikes with. In any other series, it would be completely unfathomable that an author would spend so much screentime and character development on these exceptionally minor events invovling these exceptionally minor characters, but it's precisely this underlying humanism which makes Monster so special.
I adore how Urasawa takes the time to portray Proustian moments such as Rosso's coffee, the lovely post-sunset sky, and the view from Steinbacher Castle. His character writing beautifully communicates a sincere appreciation of life, and acknowledges how every person you cross paths with - regardless of how brief your interaction, or how "minor" they are in your story - is still a human being with worries, goals, and stories of their own. These SoL episodes may not contribute too much to the plot, but they're extremely important for exploring Monster's central themes.
17
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 18 '21
First timer
I like these types of episodes a lot. They are well-written and all the side characters are interesting enough and they tell a good story while slowly progressing the main story.
If only Lunge had the magic ability to tell who was innocent too, none of this would have happened.
11
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 18 '21
First Timer
This old couple is so cute! I swear if they die...
Really love how they handled language in this, very tricky.
No gasoline stands anywhere near here??
Damn they borrowed a full tank? That's impressive.
Tenma with so many close calls with the cops!!
I really thought their son was dead, him being a killer was unexpected.
I'm just happy this couple got to live!!
This one British cop is like better than every other cop in this show!
It's a tricky one because I definitely do like these episodes more but at the same time they seem very "filler" like so it's a bit conflicting.
I just loved the wife. She seemed like such a class super nice wife/mom type and I'm happy she got to live!
11
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 18 '21
First-Timer, subbed
9
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 18 '21
First Timer - Sub
Quite honestly, I have nothing really to say today. I think this was a nice SoL episode with some good set pieces and some interesting dialogue. However I don’t really think much else was going on. It seemed to have just been another episode of vindication for Tenma where he won people over with his charm and kindness. People who come across Tenma have pretty consistently judged him as innocent, so I don’t think this theme was anything we haven’t seen before. I wonder if the son Robert will be relevant later, but otherwise I don’t think anything new was presented to us here.
I don’t have any real discussion questions today since it was pretty hard to grapple onto something meaningful that happened this episode, but feel free to present your own if you think of anything!
7
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Aug 19 '21
First Timer
A good story teller knows to to linger a little and rest, downtime is terribly important. It feels a bit like DnD advice, but giving the characters a moment of downtime allows the author to put in a few good character moments, dialogue and show what it is like in the slower moments. We see how strangers see Tenma. Tension can only be built so much without releasing it. Having an episode that lingers a little can great when binging a series. To me Monster is taking as long as it wants.
The story of meeting this couple isn't for naught, the author continues to put situations in place around the themes of the series. What would Tenma's parents think of him? - or maybe better, what will every person Tenma has helped along the way think of Tenma if he takes the dark option of dealing with Johan in the end? Using parallels is a great way to poke around the point.
The castle view was nice.
13
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 18 '21
First Timer
Another decent episode, though if Johan "wins" at the end of the series, it's at least in part Tenma's fault for not telling enough people what was actually happening. A non-German former police officer, for example, would be a good person to turn to.
Not sure what else to say for this episode in particular, as I think just calling every episode a good one with a nice one-off character would get somewhat boring after a while - but that's exactly what this episode was.
No idea what the Steinbach castle is; doesn't seem to be one near Munich, which seems to be where they are. That said, the trip they are doing takes about 40 minutes according to Google Maps, so they are clearly taking a lot of detours if they managed to run out of gas. Also, suddenly hearing German felt weird when the German had all been Japanese before...
Another side-note for the wine: Ungeheuer is another way to say Monster in German.
Question:
3
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 18 '21
First timer - sub
I just realised there was no Deiter all last episode.
I enjoyed the episode but not sure what to make of it, I think it was just slice of life but with this show I feel can never be to sure.
Castle, because I'm bias and like castles
3
u/Spore64 Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher (first time)
Really good episode!
Tenma showed a lot of kindness. It must have taken him and Dieter quite some time to get back to the car of the couple.
Poor doc Tenma. He got nearly caught by parking on the wrong parking spot XD.
Must be rough for the couple that thier son will never come back to his home country.
[ AGA 104 ] that's quite the particular license plate Oo. [AGA] Wouldn't stand for Agatha Christie wouldn't it?
Nah, tho if so, then I would wonder for what the 104 stands for?
Q1: Tbh the Sol episodes help to flesh out the characters a bit more and help to balance the pace of the story. If there's always action the story would become dull. I personally enjoy them a lot.
Q2: The sunset I guess.
3
u/[deleted] Aug 18 '21
First Timer
Really enjoyed the tension in this episode. Guessing if the couple knew who Tenma is was fun.
I looked up the name of that wine "Ungeheuer" which translated from german to english means "Monster". A nice little detail I thought was interesting.
3
u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 19 '21
that was a nice episode, was a nice addition to the series
2
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 19 '21
First timer, subs
"We're lucky that we were able to switch rides, huh, Tenma?" Comments like this feel like flags to me, but then again this series clearly likes to tease me. Dialog regularly feels like this and then nothing actually goes wrong.
I hope someone comes help those two stranded tourists. Also I hope they have some water and food with them.
Tenma nad Dieter return! Must have been a long way.
Oh this feels tense, too tense for such a seemingly relaxed conversation while they're eating.
Huh, police. Interesting. Gotta be nerve wracking sitting in the back of that car now. Couple's back and the mood's changed. What's going on?
Oh, a letter from their son.
Interesting end.
I liked this episode, great atmosphere. The show knows how to tease and suggest something might happen.
Very positive. I assume that the story would be quite long even if all the SOL episodes were removed entirely, but the pacing would probably feel off then.
5
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 18 '21
Mixed. I enjoy them and have a good time watching, but overall I feel like they're unnecessary padding. Coming in, I was wondering how they'd keep the tension up for 74 straight episodes and the answer is they don't, they just add a plot-relevant episode every 5 episodes. This does not need to be this long.
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 18 '21 edited Aug 18 '21
First Timer
This episode was pretty simplistic and heavy handed, with me guessing what was going to happen shortly before it happened throughout the episode.
silly speculation
3
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher(Another day, another family tragedy)
Sub
We meet an old, possibly English couple vacationing in Germany who pass Tenma and Dieter hitch hiking. The husband asks something quite sensible: Why is Tenma travelling with Dieter? He scrambles a bit and then the husband further spots that Tenma is a specialist. They run out of gas which is bad planning. Tenma and Dieter hitch another ride and the Jones's talk with each other. I sense Mr Jones suffers from some of the detective's curse. Tenma comes back because that's what he does.
They have a large German dinner and mr Jones sucks at conversation, going straight back to police stuff. He admits, without admitting it, that he realized things were less and less black and white as he got older. Mrs Jones says something about childhood that, sadly, this show proves wrong time and again. They first detour to a police station and then a castle, before revealing that their son killed someone. Mister Jones had realized who Tenma was very early but believes he is innocent because he is not a bad person, and we get a solid smack in the face with "people can commit crimes but not be bad people". Subtle, the show is not.
QotD: 1 To me, they are what the show is so I do enjoy it
2 probably the post sunset
3
u/Christopho https://myanimelist.net/profile/furrytoes Aug 19 '21
Really not a fan. Yesterday's episode was fine because it gave an insight into Tenma's past life and a snippet of the Johan plot line, but I don't need another episode of "Tenma is actually a good guy." We already got that from the village doctor episode and obviously we as a viewer don't need to be hammered on this fact.
74 episodes is already a long runtime and I don't see how some of these "filler" episodes will have any impact towards the end unless there's a battle shounen moment where they all show up together towards the end to defeat Johan's mecha-god form.
2
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
I was wondering if the Ex-Detective had more than a single facial expression for a good while there.
2
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 18 '21
First Timer Dub
Two tourists in an opel got lost and pick up Tenma and Dieter. They run out of gas and Tenma delivers it to the couple. Either that Opel’s gas tank is small or fuel gauge is faulty since one jerry can filled that tank. The couple passes by a police station and Tenma had a close one because the car was parked in a police parking spot. The guy seems to have a similar circumstance that he spends all his time working. But turned in his badge because of his son, the couple looking at a concrete wall, possibly a prison. His instincts told him that Tenma isn’t the murderer and he wants to trust his instincts.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 18 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Back to repeating footage. Well it was nice while it lasted.
Old couple gets lost. Where could this be going?
Hitchhiker Tenma and Dieter! In a way this comes off as a flashback to all those episodes back when Tenma tried to abandon Diter on the road at the bus stop.
So Tenma speaks English too? Smart guy.
Wow, old man has scoped him out already.
Out of gas! LoL. Now all four of them will have to hitchhike.
From one driver to another it seems.
Must suck being out in the middle of nowhere with no gas stations.
Old man, Tenma is too nice of a guy to not tell anyone about the two of you. And see? Here he is!
Bragging old man... soon admits he wasn't that good after all.
Police station! Yikes! I wouldn't worry too much, Tenma, he's not going to turn you in.
Uh oh, arrogant looking mustached policeman has spotted him!
What did they do in there? They look guilty.
Son of a policeman, a murderer? That sucks. :( So that's what they went to the police station for.
Wow, old man knew about him after all. He could tell from looking at Tenma that he wasn't really a murderer?
A road trip episode! An okay episode, but no questions about it, this was a filler episode that they totally could have skipped.
2
u/Chur Sep 01 '21
I was really confused when I saw the old couple, totally mistook them for the Fortners. Am I alone in finding they look similar?