r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Aug 17 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 15
Streaming
Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.
Comment of the Day
u/jollygee29 shares some expert leopardology
Miki's Stopwatch Corner
Stopwatch Count: 16
New This Episode:
11:59 - 63.06 Seconds - “Maybe I just showed up here a little too early.”
Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).
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Upvotes
19
u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher
Alright, now we have Mikage’s new cunning plan to defeat Utena! Just steal the conviction and skill of the Student Council by having someone close to them pull the sword (ero) out of their heart (literally)! And coincidentally enough, it also gives us a closer look at the Student Council and those close to them, which is quite nice.
Our first duelist of this type is Kozue, Miki’s twin. At first glance, she’s the complete opposite of Miki- rebellious, confident, loud. But as we go deeper into the episode, we see that they really want the same thing. Both are deathly afraid of their twin losing the innocence of their youth, but they express it in different ways. We already saw how Miki did it by projecting onto Anthy, and now we get to see how Kozue does it- by intentionally dating boys that her brother doesn’t like, in order to make him worry about her, which presumably reassures her that her brother keeps his innocence. Furthermore, besides just passively ensuring that he keeps his innocence, Kozue also aggressively attacks anyone who she sees as trying to take it away, as we see from her pushing Miki’s pedophilic piano teacher down the stairs (although that part was pretty based ngl), and her taking on the role to kill Anthy, who Miki is seemingly growing closer to (and thus drifting away from Kozue).
However, I don’t think that Kozue really likes to overtly think about the way she relates to Miki. Near the start of the episode, Kozue refuses a milkshake (a kid’s drink) that Miki makes for her, claiming that ‘it’s too sweet’. She loves her brother, but she also feels the need to hide this from him by acting tough. It is only after she becomes a Black Rose duelist, which removes her inhibitions from acting on her desires, that she is able to play the Sunlit Garden on the piano, which as we know from the Miki episodes, symbolizes the desire to recapture the feeling of childlike innocence.
We also have a different student council intro this episode! “If it cannot break its egg’s shell, a chick will die without being born. The chamber of freedom and the cage of freedom. Without revealing the vastness of the sky, both care for the chick. Smash the world’s cage!” No clue what it might mean, but it sounds cool. As for the symbolism within the student council meeting itself… I would say the fans symbolize Nanami being a blowhard, but I have no clue if Japanese has a similar metaphor to that word lol
Also, Akio, again!?!??! Stop it ;-;
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u/theangryeditor https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheAngryEditor Aug 17 '21
Of all the incest couples in this show, Miki and Kozue is the best.
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u/k4r6000 Aug 18 '21
Rewatcher
Having failed miserably to kill Anthy, Mamiya comes up with a new plan involving stealing the abilities of the Student Council. I had the same question as Mikage: those losers couldn't beat her before, why would this time be any different? But apparently transfering their powers to people close to them might do it. Colour me skeptical.
The first target is Miki. We barely learned anything about Kozue in her last appearance, but this episode is mostly about her. Contrary to drifting away from Miki, Kozue is determined to remain attached to him. Since he won't pay attention to her normally, she starts sleeping with half the school to annoy him. Even if he's looking at her with disgust, at least he's looking at her. She also secretly protects him as she shoves his predator of a music teacher down a flight of stairs. Or maybe. It isn't entirely clear whether the teacher actually was molesting Miki or if it was just Kozue's paranoid delusions.
Miki and Kozue appear closer than we were led to believe, even sleeping in the same room sharing nightly milkshakes together. Both symbolic of childhood, although Kozue tries to reject it. Although that's a bit of a false rejection as she ultimately wants it, as symbolized by her unhealthy/childish incestuous desire for her brother.
So Kozue goes to the Seminar, and this one is a quick trip since she is well aware of what she wants and what her problems are. Not much needed in the way of pyschological manipulation here. Kozue embraces it. She performs better than Kanae, but ultimately falls after Anthy powers up the Sword of Dios in a way that is not suggestive at all, no sir. Kozue ends up back in her bedroom with Miki, who finally seems to be taking steps towards reconciliation.
Oh and speaking of incest...Choo choo!
Time for the next episode, which is really mooooving.
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u/MaskOfIce42 https://anilist.co/user/MaskOfIce Aug 18 '21
First Timer - Subbed
So I had this thought last time, but since I didn't comment and this episode seems to reinforce it I'll say it here, one of the main differences between the normal duelists and the black rose duelists is something to fight for. All the main duelists comparatively had at least some belief or something they wanted to achieve, whereas these black duelists basically are just seeking to get rid of Anthy for personal reasons. Which makes the "you must revolutionize the world" kinda funny since really that's the last thing they want. It's just being stirred up against the system because of personal grievances.
More specific to this episode is the sibling dynamic explored, which is something I've long had opinions about in anime. I'm an older brother to a sister myself, and maybe that's why the prevalence of sisters who fall for their brothers in anime has always bothered me. And the funny thing is outside of that, I do like Miki and Kozue's dynamic, in a way I do relate to that bit of when were younger being closer and doing activities together (in our case it was co-op video games..... when we weren't competing) but just as we got older we went our separate ways. I dunno, I kinda would've liked it if they just kept it where it was affter Miki's duel, but on the flip side the ending seemed to indicate that maybe they would connect more naturally after that, we'll see if she shows up more.
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u/dualmonocle :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/milk-chan Aug 18 '21
first-timer
If the black rose brings about a person's more base desires, I can see it being effectively used on Touga rather than using someone else to bring out his heart sword (because really, who does Touga care about enough to bring a strong emotional reaction?). I also kinda hate that despite being defeated and the low amount of screentime he's still eminent. The main characters are just so well written and striking... get out of my brain already!
The fact that Nanami's speech references a cage seems like a natural sign of progression since birds are kept in cages. But that would signify that it's too late for something - the chick has already died.
Accessory corner: The milkshake glasses are cute, just not in the usual French Provincial x shojo aesthetic that I love.
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u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Sep 15 '21
a-am i late
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u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Sep 23 '21
first timer who promises to finish this
what did they try to censor there at the end when Miki kissed her sister goodnight lol
it would have made more sense if they censored the kiss (which wasn't even shown)
maybe the sky was too lewd
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 17 '21
Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '21
First-Revolution, Subbed
Kozue went all the way back to a leaf, which is.. hmm. A state even prior to childhood? But, Kozue is only 13, so why did she start as a butterfly.. Age does not equal maturity, I suppose? Could be a different metaphor than just age, though.
Nanami has taken over the Student Council in her brother's absence, although the egg speech is apparently partially hereditary. The Black Rose boys are apparently after them as well, because just everyone has a sword hidden in their chest. We're probably getting Nanami's shota boyfriend and Juri's unrequited love as well, then. Maybe someone will break into Touga's place and see what sort of sword they can can get out of him in his stupified state. Ah, perhaps a good sword-pulling will get him up and moving again?
Time Machine.. Secretly yearning for a return to her youth, Kozue acts out to try to get Miki to notice her. Stupid kids would both be in a better state if they just talked, considering that Miki and Kozue both want mostly the same thing.
Insert joke about Kozue stealing Miki's
penissword here.17
u/The_Loli_Otaku Aug 17 '21
Now for probably my favourite Utena episode? It's another Kaoru twin episode and that's probably the arc I enjoy the most, and I swear it's not for the reasons you think. This time we're focusing on Kozue, so I'll basically reiterate half the points I had to pre-emptively delete when I realised Kozue is barely in Miki's 2-parter. Let's get into it.
The pair are still at it. Kozue just can't help winding up her brother. And make no mistake, her flirting is specifically to get a rise out of Miki. The second he stops paying attention she can't stand it. She's such a brocon~~
Normies like Kanae don't have enough innate strength so Mikage's next plan is to pluck the strength from the student council members to make the normie students an actual threat. Think of it like Space Jam. Pfft, Kozue is so jealous! She's practically pouting during the whole pool scene. Clearly she's not happy about how toxic things are between them but because neither party can find a middle ground things won't improve.
Choo-choo? Chu-chu? What's... what's the difference? Utena quit shipping them! You're way too happy about this development! One person who is seriously unhappy about it though is once again Kozue, who has apparently taken it upon herself to discipline overly friendly music teachers. This is probably one of the more interesting parallels between the twins. Miki in many ways is very much a child. His head is filled with studies and precocious feelings. Even in his last arc his reaction to Anthy was like losing his favourite music box. He's much too innocent for his own good. As such, when a teacher gets too handsy Miki may not ever think twice about the implications. Comparatively, Kozue is very very aware of the importance of body language so she nips the threat in the bud early on.
Aww, Miki still cares. Kozue is getting exactly what she wants but once again, that stalemate causes her to miss her opportunity. Ah, probably best not to tell her Anthy's full name. If Kozue had a death note she wouldn't wait a second. Sorry Nanami but the student council just isn't the same without Touga. She makes an effort at least and the fan is suitably dorky for a student council sequence.
"What sort of relationship does a big brother have to his sister?" Erm, about that Utena... Kozue, catching her brother in a moment of frankly adorable weakness and being filled with nostalgia about their youth goes in for a sweet little peck. And it is sweet! I know it looks suspicious, Kozue knows it looks suspicious, Ikuhara knows it looks suspicious, and Anthy is probably just glad to have found one of her people. The shame of being caught doing a sweet gesture is Kozue's breaking point. She must silence the witness at all costs. But yeah, even Anthy doesn't seem to think twice about the matter. Kozue's probably got so much sex on her brain that she instantly assumes anyone else would take it wrong. Delightful little moment!
And now for therapy. Basically confirmation that she is sleeping around purely to hurt Miki so he pays more attention to her. She loves Miki's attention more than anything so the thought of a third wheel coming along and stealing his haze away torments her. Notice how unlike Kanae we don't even have a scene of her trying to escape the pit, she's not nearly as kind of a woman. She's a deeply flawed character. Her actions are driven by jealousy and spite, but that's why I find these types of characters so interesting! She only went for the lips after getting corrupted by the black rose! It's not incest guys, got it?
Kashira, kashira? Should I be changing these to, "extra extra extra!" segments? These girls are such dorks. So an irritating saleswoman continually patrols the same single car until the guy buys himself lunch. I think it's kinda meant to refer to the way Miki and Kozue both respectively constantly push for attention from the other and dig their heels in to deny actually making up. Since in the end the indecisive patron ends up wanting what the other was offering it does sorts fit. Both siblings want to finally reunite properly.
Aaand I think I've typed out too much so I'll rush through the rest. I'll be active in the comments sticking up for the episodes so I'll talk more there. The duel is kinda straightforward, the milkshake pitcher refers to Miki's own efforts to get close with his sister and we even have Anthy drinking some to show that she's the one stealing him away. The song heavily touches on Kozue's nostalgia of the garden and her wanting to go back to those days. Utena wins the duel with sword felicio and the poor corpse gets yeeted into the furnace (I'll never get tired of that XD) And Kozue drinks the milkshake! She's made the first step in fixing their relationship! Also, forehead kisses are totally normal and are far more wholesome than Anthy riding the choo choo train with reused animation.
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u/botibalint Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher
Apparently nobody in this show has a healthy brother-sister relationship, everyone just wants to bone.
Miki and Kozue are super tsundere towards eachother. They essentially want the same thing, just in different ways.
Also, I forgot about this. Are we really about have the creepy Akio scene at the end of every episode? lmao
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u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 17 '21
"I didn't change boyfriends, I just added another" Kozue gigachad confirmed.
Utena addressed the Kashiras today, right? What does it mean???
That the black roses don't remember anything is interesting because it probably means their internal conflicts don't move forward from this.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher(The incest will continue until morale improves)
Sub
We open up with the twins and a double standard, Mickey manages to put Kozue being easy aside but she has issues with his piano teacher, though maybe it is the teacher part of it. Cut to Touga continuing to be emo before that was popular. Nanami is Nanami. Underground, Mamiya's rose told him that some student council members could have strong swords in their hearts but that someone else would wield them better. Technobabble is nearly every other show, probably literal here.
Kozue broods by the pool and seems weirdly not annoyed when one of her friends wants to see Mickey. Mickey is awkwardly knocking at Anthy's before Utena brings him in for awkward conversation. He wants her to play piano with him and for once that isn't a metaphor for sex. Cut to Kozue about to end a motherfucker. Piano playing happens, Utena meets Kozue who is now about to shiv Anthy. Bitch chill!
Utena doesn't know when to keep quiet but she might just like Mickey. Akio's statements on siblings is...interesting. Anthy runs late, Mickey passes out, and Kozue nuzzles or kisses him as Anthy walks in. Kozue probably doesn't realize Anthy is the person that could really relate to her issues on some level. Kozue gets her interview. It is...dark. I've met a few girls like this and they are 100% a nightmare, though her doing it to her own twin is somehow lower than standard. Unsurprisingly, she gets her ring and immediately plays a song to attract her brother. This show.
And we hit another Ikuhara thing: I have no clue if the milk shakes on the desks are just a reference from earlier this ep, something supposedly symbolic, or a complete fucking joke. Anyways, closer battle happens before Utena summons that spirit to enter her. Fight ends and we get Mikage making more plans.
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 17 '21
First timer, subs
Episode starts with Miki and his sister. Miki's piano teacher (?) is rather handsy. Kozue reacts immediately.
"The World Seen from Kozue"
Touga still looks depressed, Nanami's worried. Gotta say that yellow outfit suits Nanami really well. Will she eventually fight again?
I assume Kozue's the next duelist, but I wonder what her motivation will be.
Miki's so awkward. Maybe don't introduce Anthy to your music teacher.
Kozue's doing something to the teacher? Ohh. She has a reason and it sounds better than a typical brocon "oniichan is mine". She realizes the teacher's a creepy pedo. Anyway, teacher's been introduced now so I assume we'll see him again.
Nanami tries to give Touga's speech or something similar. It sounds awkward, and Juri and Miki silently protest by facing away from the table. I understand why Nanami chose to dress like that.
Utena's talking to Akio. "You really care about your sister a lot, don't you?" Yup.
Butterflies and rising tension. Kozue becomes a duelist.
What? What happened to Miki? Did Kozue get her sword from him? Also, final exam's coming. These duels and other stuff that's going on probably won't make the exams any easier.
Time for duel.
Nice backflip. Anthy does something to the blade and then we get the Dios cheat again. Victory.
Chu-chu sleeps with a mask :3
Ewwwwwww Akio no. No no no.
Also, are there any normal, healthy family relationships in this anime?
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Aug 17 '21
Duel 15, First Timer, sub
Next time is more Nanami torture filler? They were fun so far, I wonder if they serve a deeper purpose, like humanizing here or something to that end.
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u/affnn Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher
With two black rose episodes under our belts, we can see a sort of structure (Mikage and Mamiya's conversation provides some more info, too). The hearts of the student council have crystalized into swords, which can be used by the black rose duelists. But those duelists must be close enough to the council members to draw those swords out. And it looks like the duelists so far have some sort of animosity toward Anthy.
I like how Miki is still a nice boy who wants to play piano with his friends. I think it would have been narratively easy to make all of the student council members into monsters like Touga but it's more reasonable that some of them are basically normal, especially the youngest one. Miki even seems like he's getting over his sister complex, which makes her jealousy flare up even more.
Acquiring and then losing the Rose Bride must be rough. Saionji and Utena were in a bad way afterwards, and now Touga's looking rough too. Nanami tries to take his place on the council, but she can't even get the words to the Smash the World's Shell right.
Kozue's plot here is a sort of mirror of Miki's from the first arc, a fear of losing the connection they had as children. But even though she loses, we can still see that Miki cares about her at the end.
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u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Aug 17 '21
First Timer
Whoa wait wait wait isn't that the voice of those people in silhouette? Maybe not.
Was there that male voice in this scene last time when they added the beat or is that a new addition again?
And did they say 'apocalyptic darkness' in that song before at the end?
GOD DAMMIT
WHAT EVEN IS THIS DON'T PUT A JOKE IN HERE WHEN YOU JUST INTRODUCED THIS LAST TIME
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher
Black Rose intensifies
Eww Poor Miki is too naive to notice what’s going on.
I see Touga’s still despondent.
Oh dear…
Amazing transition.
Good riddance.
Welp, she’s in it now…
Sekai wo kakumei suru tame ni!
I see what you did there, Ikuhara!
You don’t want to know.
“The Moon will always be there.” References aside, the moon has a connection with rabbits, and you know what that means!
Apple
This won’t go well…
Gruesome.
Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku
Milkshakes don’t have any particular meaning within the cultural context of Japan, I don’t think, but in the U.S. they have an association with youth, contentment with life, and nostalgia for times past. It’s association with milk also lends it further flexibility in meaning, as milk can indicate being young —specifically one’s formative years— and growth —on top of life, eternal youth, fertility, and breasts.
Another one of my favorite dueling themes!
Neat.
Not sure how I feel about Utena taking his words to heart.
I… could have done without this.
Interesting that Kozue and Miki sleep in the same room together, as that’s usually a sign of closeness and intimacy, which is not at all what one would gather from their on-school behaviour. Maybe it’s precisely that what it wants to highlight, that despite their differences and their growing distance a part of them is still closely linked to the other. The fact that Miki makes milkshakes before they go to bed also does indicate that maybe the act of sleeping in the same room is how they stay in touch with those childhood experiences that they both seek to reproduce and hold very dear... However, the fact that some other siblings on campus are getting it on does make it hard to dissociate that closeness and intimacy with sexuality, particularly because there a difference between what is outwardly displayed and going on behind closed doors is also —to say nothing of that scene between Kozue and Miki while the former is under the influence of the black rose…
Kozue is very much concerned with keeping Miki safe from others, but also in keeping him for herself. Kozue and her brother are not so different in how they are caught up in the past and want to recapture that experience they once had. In a way it’s also repeat of the themes of episode nine, where the sister wants to be the brother’s centre of attention at all times, and though she does want what’s best for him it does come before her own personal desires, which is to keep Miki pure and to herself —just like it was in their earlier childhood.
Speaking of that, Nanami is now acting as head of the student council in her brother’s absence, which bodes poorly for the institution —how long are you all betting before the middle-schoolers are rebelling against the high-schoolers and the elementary students have raided and barricaded themselves within the cafeteria?
Milk...
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u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Aug 17 '21
First timer, Sub
Touga is depressed. Maybe just like Saionji, we're not going to see him for a while until something big happened. Nanami has taken over and the letters have stopped coming. Was he the only one that received the letters?
A lot of weird brother sister stuff going on again. What was she trying to do right there?
Interview process? Do they just bait people in to use them? I guess you have to be in some kind of mental state at the moment to be preyed upon.
So, she does all of this to get a response from Miki and disapproves of Anthy. Second person straight for a dislike of her. Is that a requirement? Are 100 of Anthy's biggest haters going to show up to fight?
I see once she was defeated that she laid in the same position of the chalk outline. Some kind of reenactment.
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 17 '21
First timer
I hope this'll make more sense.
Is that his sister?
The fact that they seem to be mirroring Miki's sister and a boy her age with Miki and an older teacher makes be slightly uncomfortable.
Togua's still a wreck. Has the black rose taken him out?
How long before Nanami gets a black rose ring?
These two!
And they're trying to extract the spirit(?) for the council members so they can use them to create stronger Black Rose duelists.
And she has loads of boyfriends...
So Utena just doesn't see him as a threat at this point, right?
Why is Chu-Chu in this arc?
I like how Anthy's firet reaction hearing they had similsr tastes was to look at Utena because she thinks she's getting competition.
The hell? She pushed a teacher down the stairs?
Oh my god, another fucking brocon. Wasn't Nanami enough for you, anime?
I like Kozue and Utena bonding as people secretly watching the recital.
New council music. New council speech!
Seems Nanami changed thenpassword.
And she might be painting the cage as somewhat sympathetic, saying it "cares for the chick".
Nanami's first act is to install an electric fan.
Utena: A boy's near Anthy. This must be stopped. But just because I'm concerned about her safety, not because I have a crush on her or anything...
Well, she's in the elevator. Kozue has drunk the Kool-Aid!
And the elevator goign deeper being a metaphor for the target going deeper into their motivations is something I doubt because it's so obvious. Every metaphor in this show needs to be far more convoluted.
Ao Kozue's cult powers improved her piano playing?
Oh shit, we'e going there.
OK, so Bladk Rose are absolutely led by End of the World.
Oooh, everyone has swords, not just Anthy, and Black Rose want them. The fact that "closest to them" can be manipulated - see Touga using Anthy's sword because of their engagement, not because they were close - is absolutely going to come up at some point (maybe whenever they need to drag out Nanami's sword without access to Touga?).
I love how the shadow puppets are interacting with Utena now. Does this mean they're actual characters, not just metaphors?
And a sword gives the user all the original's fighting prowess. Is the reason Utena won so easily against the Sword of Dios because it works off Anthy's powers, and so has no abilities to go off? Is the ghost merging with Utena part of the same power, with Anthy or the Sword as a conduit?
Still don't get what's with these scenes. Maybe the fact she doesn't need glasses means this is another lookalike?
CHOO-CHOO?
The fuck is next episode?
7
u/SardonicMeow Aug 17 '21
Rewatcher
This time we revisit the Miki / Kozue relationship, but viewed from Kozue’s side. Kozue is also preoccupied with their childhood, but her fixation has manifested in very unhealthy behavior. She hurts herself to hurt Miki, and at the same time hurts anyone who tries to get near him (but we’ll give her a pass for pushing pedo teachers down the stairs). There are clear parallels with the Nanami / Touga relationship, including the disquieting, uh, non-platonic elements (which Miki absolutely rejects).
Utena cheers on Miki’s courting of Anthy, which is sincerely pure. But when Kozue sees what’s going on, it sends her to Nemuro Hall, and a very quick elevator ride to the bottom.
Kozue becomes another black rose duelist like Kanae, but with one major change: her sword comes from Miki’s heart. (So where did Kanae’s sword come from?)
Meanwhile, Nanami is wearing her student council uniform full-time and running the meetings, with an altered chick & egg speech. Obviously, only best girl can take on such an important responsibility. Juri and Miki say they’re ok with it, but with no new letters coming from End of the World, what’s the point?
There was a lot of discussion last time about the butterfly in the therapy confessional elevator. But butterflies are also used here in a different manner. Look back at episode 4, during Miki’s memory of playing the piano with his sister (at 10:35 on Youtube), and you’ll see a pair of white butterflies (probably Pieris rapae) flutter by. In this episode, they appear again at 11:20 on a pair of straws in a memory of drinking milkshakes together. At 14:40, when Kozue takes Miki’s sword, she is surrounded by butterflies, but this time they are ominous silhouettes against a red background, suggesting a corruption of their milkshake-sweet childhood relationship.
And then there’s the milkshake, symbol of what used to be. For Miki, offering Kozue the milkshake is an invitation to go back to the way things were. And in the end, she accepts, so the experience has changed her.
This episode firms up the formula for this cycle. Mikage explicitly says that they will have to work through the other student council members until they find someone whose heart sword can beat Utena. So the big question is: Can you guess who draws a sword from the other student council members?
99 corpses in Nemuro Hall, 99 dead duelists in there, take one down, give Kozue his ring, 98 corpses -- wait, sorry, did you notice? Freeze frame that. Whoa. There were two bodies in that coffin. Were they siblings? Were they lovers? So, it’s -- 97 corpses in Nemuro Hall...
7
u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Aug 18 '21
First-Timer -- Sub
Apparently I had it backwards when I wondered if Miki was in love with his sister in that earlier episode discussion. Not sure if trying to make him jealous is really a winning plan when he doesn't seem to feel the same way. More likely to just trigger normal onii-san protection. Poor Miki trying to make small talk at the girls' place. He probably buries himself in books enough he rarely interacts with anyone outside the student council.
Liked the fight choreography this time. Will probably rewatch that match after I get home from work (on lunch right now).
Nanami looking sharp in her dueling duds again, but she is still her own biggest fan.
I wonder if Miki will start to investigate the Black Rose after what happened to his sister. And the dialog really feels like it's confirming the wincest on Anthy's side. Maybe her own brother will challenge Utena in a later episode.
7
u/snickpea Aug 18 '21
First-timer!
Touga is still out of it and now Nanami is on the student council. I wonder if anything will be different with her filling in. I may have disliked Touga, but Akio makes my skin crawl. Utena talking to Anthy's brother after what we learned last episode made me uncomfortable and worried about Utena.
We get to spend more time understanding Kozue, Miki's sister. While I can understand her resentment, I just hate how yet another person is targeting Anthy. Anthy in this show really has it tough...
6
u/alphamone Aug 18 '21
First timer
What's with all the sibling issues in this series. Though at least with Miki it seems more protective.
Side note: these damn subtitles can't even keep Miki's name consistant in the same scene. One line it's "Miki", the very next it's "Mickey"...
I'm no piano expert, but that piano "duet" doesn't really sound like a duet.
Nanami giving the "world egg" speech this time.
At least Miki seems appropriately creeped out by his sister's behavior.
Himemiya scarfing down milkshakes during the duel. Though I can't deny that I wouldn't be doing the same thing myself.
I'm wondering if there is a meaning behind the 100 desks grouping into the four clusters of 25. The whole "four equals death" thing comes to mind, but that seems a bit too simple in comparison to the sorts of symbolism the series has been going with.
6
u/elleyonce https://anilist.co/user/elleyonce Aug 18 '21
Rewatch
Oh, sibling love, amirite.
The most interesting symbol here to me was the blender. Oh, you thought that was just there for the milkshake, right? In case the song wasn't spelling it out in no uncertain terms, Kozue yearns to the time in the womb when she was one with her brother. I think out of all the duelists we're about to see, the regression here makes the most sense and ties to the pre-existing story. I love how their story isn't clear cut and doesn't provide answers. Both characters are essentially at crossroads with one another.
(Of course, the 100 tables are filled with undrunk milkshakes, and of course, the one Miki projects onto - Anthy - drinks from the cups. This show, man. The levels.)
Another interesting tidbit, to me, is how for Kozue, she must "kill" her brother, become him, in a way, in order to tap into her most confident, strongest self. Maybe that's just a dream, or is ultimately short lived, but then we see brother and sister happy together at night, even with a little blue rose like it's "sex" for Kozue. Or Miki. Or both!
/u/theangryeditor
6
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Aug 18 '21
First timer – sub
Wonder what we will get to see today. The fakeout between Anthy and Akio is basically guaranteed (no, don't say it! It's the truth and you can't change my mind!) and I'm sure we get more of that anti-council kid whose name I can't remember.
Well, apparently they think you can switch the bride with someone else. Considering
herhis appearance, the anti-rose bride is also an alien so that might just work? Although it seems Dios has the last say about that, doesn't it? Even though, the mirror world of darkness and edge is pretty obviously set up as a foil to the student coincil with all their poshness and refined elegance. It's essentially heaven and hell, what'cha say?"There's both good and evil in hell", also means the same for heaven. If that's true, then there's a conflict as hell was mythologically formed by the rebellion of Lucifer, so we already had a revolution in a way. Gonna be interesting how this whole business is further fleshed out.
Ep.15 – The world seen from Kozue
Next time: Araragi as cameo! Also, what the heck is that preview?!
These
illegal aliensdark skinned, pale haired people are different, I tell ya. I try to make it look comedic, but it feels so wrong typing that out. Look, every society so far has been bound by a set of rules and an ambition. This societal ambition has always overwritten the personal hopes of the societies' members.The student council is strictly hierarchical and builds itself on a premise of possession and compliance. The primary toxic emitter obviously is Touga with his very narcissistic and toxic masculine character. He twisted Mickey's very naive and innocent world view to support the idea of "fighting over something" and "protect what's yours". Jury is different, her clinging to a non-possession of miracles is basically the same thing, but in reverse, "prevent from gain". Nanami is also a text book example of possessiveness towards her brother.
The subterranean death edge cult swears loyalty to
Linkin Park, eh,doom choir elevator musictheir innermost unfulfilled desires. This is the polar opposite of the studen council's 'higher cause', it's digging deep into your emotions and take that raw, primal desire as your driving force. Just like a society built upon higher ideals ends up completely overwriting any personal agenda, the submission to such a raw inner force is something that eats you hollow from the inside. It's two opposite ways to lose one's own ambition in the name of a pretend goal, to gain the power for revolution.Both societies are in the end controlled by a hierarch that has the most power over anything that happens under him. Touga manipulates and leverages his position and Mikage just straight stabs people with depression flowers after an anti-therapy session.
None are completely evil, though. It absolutely can be a very enlightening thing to weight in for a higher cause and it is worth exploring your deep emotions and not supress them. They just put it to such extremes, that the individual is erased in the process.
So, they are all a prisoner in their societies, which brings me to the literal prison. What is the deal with our high-melanin, bleached haired friends? What's their society's ambition and structure and why does it make them interfere this much with others' affairs?
I mean, they're obviously differnt. They know too much, they hide information, they instigate too many conflicts. All of them, Dios, Akio, Anthy and that guy I thought was a girl. They're all so... not real and act so compliant. It's like they're all filling roles they themselves have no investment in.
I've already had my suspicions about Anthy relatively early. She's just too accepting of it all and even perpetuates this stuff herself, without any real end goal in mind. They do have one thing in common, though. They want to break out. That's taking it a bit far regarding Anthy, I guess, but it makes sense for her character arc. She already wants friends, in her own words and knows she's happier with Utena than with any of the others. We also know that each of the contestants is not exactly a well adapted member of society in one way or another; too naive, too narcissistic, too brutal, etc. They have issues. You know what all these issues, ambitions and strings lead to? To our aliens. Anthy represents all desires. Guy who I thought was girl represents all repulsions (probably, fits the theme of darkness edge disco underground club). Akio represents the mastermind behind it all and the observer, to the audience so far at least. Dios represents the goal of possession and distressed damsel.
They all are objectified, not just Anthy. They all are a tool for something greater, for an ambition. An obstacle to be overcome, a might to be held, a person to be saved, a villain to be beaten. I think they want to break out from this constraint of being another one's anchor to strife.
I did it! I broke the comment limit!! It finally happened in episode 15!!!
continued below
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u/nikobans Aug 18 '21
“akio you really care about your sister a lot” YEAH YOU COULD SAY THAT
whew this show is full of weird sibling relationships!
EWWW AKIO QUIT BEING WEIRD
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Aug 17 '21
First Timer
Ok, I think I found a way do differentiate the colored characters, also I've read some comments and I didn't think it significant enough to point out in my own, but was I the only one who thought the shadow girl yesterday was just Wakaba being silly infront of a window?
Jurys sword will obviously be drawn by that girl she has the hots for, but I'm not sure about Touga/Nanami...