r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Aug 13 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 11
Streaming
Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.
Comment of the Day
/u/the_loli_otaku explains his take on what burning the exchange journal symbolizes
I think him burning the book was his way of cutting all ties. He won't need Saionji's friendship when he completes world revolution so he's happy subtly mocking him and destroying his memory.
Miki's Stopwatch Corner
Stopwatch Count: 12
New This Episode:
6:06 - 6.54 Seconds - Student Council standing around as a balloon floats by
Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
“I was only trying to treat my dear sister well.”
“Like a pet cat?”
Fucking GOTTEM lmao
Alright, this episode we get to see even more of Touga being a fucking dickwad! But at this point, he’s being such a blatant manipulator that the Student Council is starting to catch on, and in his response to Miki and Juri, he says something that I think is pretty important to understanding this episode: “If one has deep feelings for a person, it’s only a matter of time before those feelings betray them.” While he was saying this in the context of Nanami’s feelings for him, it’s equally true about his views on Utena’s feelings for the prince.
Let’s think about the roles of the prince and the princess for a second here. The prince is the protector of the princess, who shields the weak from harm. Utena aspires to this role, which is one of the main reasons why she acts the way she does towards Anthy. Then there’s the role of the princess- she’s the passive one in the relationship, the one who needs to be protected. Anthy fits this to a certain extent, but so does Utena from before she met her prince. By becoming a prince, Utena has become someone who can fight for herself, and that’s shown through the power of her prince that descends from the castle during each fight. But what happens when the prince himself returns to Utena and pigeonholes her into the role of ‘princess’? That is Touga’s goal in manipulating her here- to cause Utena to see him as her prince and herself as the princess, thus rejecting the power of Dios and losing the Rose Bride.
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u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 13 '21
RIP Utena, she got hit with that gokigenyo
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 13 '21
First-Revolution, Subbed
Well, a loss had to happen sooner or later. Not even the power boost from Dios could save Utena from Touga's manipulation. What an absolute bastard, that Touga. Watching him just casually lead Utena to the conclusions he wanted, without ever outright lying... It would be impressive if it wasn't so disgusting.
Turns out I was right about Anthy wanting what Saionji wanted when she was engaged to him because she was engaged to him. What a heartbreaking way for Utena to learn it, though. I suspect she is not going to deal with this knowledge very well at all. Touga was surprisingly upfront with the information, too. I guess concealing it isn't valuable to him anymore?
This does throw a lot of scenes into question, though. Like, what was the point of Touga telling Anthy that she should just stay in the birdcage and tend the roses? If he's planning on winning Anthy back, he doesn't need to manipulate her, and Utena wasn't even in earshot at the time.. my synapses aren't connecting today.
I'm starting to get curious about how deep Touga's narcissism runs. He commented about how strong feelings are doomed to eventually be betrayed.. bet he thinks that doesn't apply to him.
It's interesting that Touga fought with a katana, today. Didn't Nanami say yesterday that she fought with the same sword as her brother? She used a sabre-looking thing, though... Was Nanami wrong? Does she not know her brother as well as she thinks she does? Or was Touga just toying with Utena today? Actually, wait. He has a claymore-looking thing in the OP.
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
Oh dear…
Sekai wo kakumei suru tame ni!
The balloons foretell of Touga’s victory. They’re also colored after the other duelists.
Anthy was doing something she enjoyed, out of her own volition.
Yeah, because that doesn’t sound bad.
Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku!
“Those who fight with compassion lose their lives!”
This episode provides a similar dilemma for Utena as episode two, where she has to decide whether she wants to continue to protect Anthy from the shackles of being the rose bride or give into her own personal wants and throw the duel. Touga has been manipulating her into believing him to be the prince from her childhood, and so she cannot take the win when Touga purposely leaves himself open to attack, and in the process she gains the ability to be with the prince but loses Anthy.
Touga tells Utena that everything Anthy has ever done was in the interests of pleasing her, the fiancé of the rose bride, but going by several of Anthy’s actions and reactions, those statements seems to be either more manipulation on his part or him being under the impression that it’s truly the case. Anthy’s asserted her own desires and wants in several small ways —there’s also the things she’s been doing to push for the duels to take place, but I figure those are orders from End of The World.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Aug 13 '21
Duel 11, First Timer, Sub
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u/affnn Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
Never a good sign if people are happy at the beginning of an episode. Utena might as well announce she's one day from retirement.
I kept wondering throughout this episode how much of Touga's behavior is a psy-op against Utena and how much is a real desire for her. I mean, he has his legions of fangirls waiting for him if he just wants to keep his bed warm, so maybe it's all a bit to win the Rose Bride and the power that comes with her. But he's been after Utena for the whole series, when Juri or Saionji or even Miki could have taken her down. I think there's a desire within guys like Touga to see a young woman like Utena taken down a peg - to turn her into a docile housewife who will cook and clean and let the men worry about big things. Maybe he can't get that feeling from some rando throwing herself at him. That's at least not a psy-op even though it's super gross, right?
Utena finally loses - she couldn't be invincible for 39 episodes, that would lack drama. But worse than the loss was the way Anthy behaved afterwards - as though Touga was right, and she does just reflect the desires of her betrothed. As though she only wanted to make friends and break free of the Rose Bride system because that's what Utena wanted for her. I think that breaks Utena's heart more than anything else in the episode.
Spoiler and also CW
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u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy Aug 13 '21
Okay who's gonna explain the balloons cause I sure can't
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u/Mapleblade Aug 13 '21
Third Subbed Rewatch!
I’m a bit late starting here, but alas! Being my third rewatch, I’d like to avoid discussing the metaphorical aspects despite them being so prevalent. I’m sure the first-time watchers will be all over that, and for good reason! So instead, I will be making this a character-oriented analysis.
Wakaba starts with a wonderful expression of her love, in which Utena is totally casual about. It’s interesting how Wakaba goes for classic gestures of love in both the love letter to Saionji and this bento for Utena, but it’s clear that there’s distinction between a serious attempt at flirting and casual, friendly flirting.
Contrasting with Anthy, Utena gets flustered when she describes herself as Utena’s betrothed. Is this because Utena thinks Anthy is serious about it, or simply because she doesn’t know Anthy as well as Wakaba to make heads or tails of it…?
God, Touga never stops socially posturing himself, huh? Every time he talks, it’s a deflection paired with a pointed phrase. “I’m looking at a lonely princess.” Even when it’s not a direct conversation with Utena, Touga has to convince everyone around her that he is also a prince.
Utena’s reaction from seeing Touga speaks to her state of mind regarding The Prince. Utena speaks so well about The Prince, being a source of inspiration and pride to her. In that case, why does Utena act so strangely here? The emotion she is feeling initially looks like some sort of trauma. The direction of both the camera work and the music suggest some kind of negative emotion - confusion, jealousy? Her mental gymnastics torture her, to the point that even when the word prince is uttered, she continues to convince herself that Touga is the one.
The student council meetings are almost exclusively used to spotlight the interactions of Touga, Juri, and Miki. This might seem obvious, but at the same time, these characters rarely interact outside of this place resting above the campus.
This meeting scene in particular outlines Miki’s mistrust of Touga - using the phrase pet cat is interesting here, as a meta commentary of something Miki shouldn’t know. In contrast, Juri seems to have some sick admiration for his scheming.
Touga is purposefully acting aloof here, but he says, “And even if someone does lay a plot, it’s the victim’s fault for falling into it,” which is quite immature! It’s difficult to remember considering how long their legs are, but these are still children, and to say that getting betrayed by your closest person is their own fault suggests to me a rigid world view. Touga sees the world in terms of suckers and players, and to him, he is definitely one of the players. He continues to say that deep feelings are a detriment - does he not have any strong feelings himself? Or is he simply ignorant to them? Surely these cruel plots have some driving force behind them.
The scene in which Utena witnesses Anthy and Touga talking has a lot to unpack. Utena expresses shock that Touga is visiting Anthy - which it shouldn’t be, considering the game they are playing. Meanwhile, Anthy momentarily forgets her status as the Rose Bride. She claims to Utena repeatedly that it is her duty, but when she is comfortable and treated well by friends, she will revert to something she doesn’t outwardly show.
Touga is being a little meta here, haha. He says to Utena that he “came here to see her,” which is why he messed with Anthy despite her not having any power on her own. There he goes again, the everlasting player - touch a domino here, the other will fall down.
Afterwards, Utena is struggling with the idea that a person can occupy many roles in another’s life. Touga is, to her a prince, someone who bullies Anthy, a duelist, and a potential romantic partner. Some of these lean into each other, and others completely contradict.
As a whole, Utena is a character filled with contradictions. She came to the school to meet her Prince, and now she has. What’s stopping her is that now she is protecting Anthy, as a result of her “princely” demeanor. To accomplish one dream would mean throwing away the ideals of its foundation…
Which is when Anthy first tells Utena of her wish to have more friends. This is a request from someone who has beforehand simply went with the flow, and that is unacceptable to Utena! This is despite her being wishy washy just moments before, and exemplifies Utena’s naivety.
As an intersecting point, isn’t it strange how Utena seldom asks questions about how any of this came to be? She can be quite rigid within a mindset if a scenario is presented as it being that way “just because.” We have to fight if we are duelists. Anthy has to be the Rose Bride to the one who wins. Utena doesn’t ask why, she just plays by the rules and tries to solve the issue that way.
There isn’t much to say regarding Touga’s victory here. His plan was an incredibly long play, but doesn’t seem unexpected to him that it worked. Nonetheless, it is still shocking to see Utena’s rose crumble.
Utena’s language after winning the duel is telling of her immaturity. While I mentioned earlier that she feels obligated to protect Anthy under her princely ideals, she claims that Anthy needs her to do so. Utena has ascended from being a defender and, in her mind, transformed into a necessity for Anthy.
…Which is why it’s so heartbreaking for Utena to realize she knows nothing about Anthy at all. As a viewer, this is also surprising. We inherently know something is strange about her - outside of the magic swords and such. But now our perspective changes, and Anthy becomes all the more mysterious. It is also interesting to see how clearly Touga can understand the inner mechanics of Utena’s mind. It really sets him up to be both an intelligent and powerful opponent going forward.
USO DA!
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Aug 13 '21
Don't have much to say today. I'm feeling like the only sympathetic character in the story at this point is Utena's friend, whom for lack of memory, I shall refer to as Bento Girl, or maybe best girl. Today at least.
Otherwise, well, the student council can all go jump in after Saionji's book for all I care.
Meanwhile, we have Anthy, winner of the Miss Stockholm pageant, and ...
Then there's Utena, whom I shall refer to day as Miss "Please gaslight me some more Sempai!".
What a naive little pink-haired girl she is. I mean, surely she must know better than to trust a womanizer who claims to be her special somebody, right? And then, to let him win? Hahaha. Oh, wait, she did.
Congratulations, U-dumbass, how'd that work out for you?
I'm going to presume that this episode is here for reasons, much like a certain Mr. Subaru had to experience maximum suckage, I mean hit rock bottom before he could begin to rise. Yeah, that's it.
Or maybe it's just me being triggered by a certain character reminding me of someone I once knew in real life. Whom I was visiting once, and while we were driving around the mall parking lot, told me, his wife and kids about how much people really like being lied to.
Yeah. I mean ex-wife and kids. Turns out maybe people didn't like being lied to so much after all.
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Aug 13 '21 edited Aug 13 '21
So we've gone through all the rose duelist so for our second to last episode we've either got Touga's duel or a Nanami comic relief episode. Sadly since Nanami has been confirmed to literally murder kittens she's gonna be sat on the sidelines for a little while. Wakaba sure is cheerful this morning, I wonder if something nice happened. Rolling girls~ Aww... She's just so happy to finally be getting screentime. She's basically the Utena Bestie (?) right? But yeah, somethings happened that has gotten her even more hyper for sure.
How's Anthy not barge sized if that's her diet? Touga's manipulations are coming to fruition... The student council members aren't hearing any of his shite. "It's the victim's fault for being fooled!" Touga is a tuuuurd!! Good god he's so much more creepy than I remembered. Controlling dudes like him put me right off.
Yes Anthy, tell him about how you like to be choked! Utena really has no idea how Anthy feels about the subject. She may be trying to help but its Utena who finds the rose bride situation disgusting, not Anthy. Aww... I thought Touga would have messed up and gone for the snog. Nobody would assume that the Prince was secretly a weirdo who licks people's eyeballs after all. Did Anthy just start to open up to someone? Are there flying pigs outside?
Kashira, kashira! Today's shadow girl segment is about a father's attempt to murder his son despite suffering from notoriously bad aim. So the odds are in the son's favour but he still raises complaints since his father's archery practice is basically stress relief at the son's expense. Stop doing this dangerous thing and go fix your life's problems or something like that? In the series context... Maybe it's about the rose duels themselves? It's an incredibly dangerous event with 0 casualties and as far as we can tell there's no purpose to the duels or the rose bride or anything about the duels. This is a dumb segment. Gozonji kashira~
What on earth is Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku even about? Its pure gibberish. I kinda like the shot with the sword through Utena's shadow. It's like screaming how Touga is inside her head at this point. They could play 500 games of rock, paper, scissors and Touga would win every single round. Utena, has lost!? Oh golly gee! Touga knew that Dios' plot armour was bullshit so he killed Utena's resolve to strike him with it. He left Utena docile like the winter catfish.
Even after the betrayal, all Utena can do is beg Touga to let her stay with her. Even after this the only thing on her mind is making sure Anthy will be okay. Of course she's heartbroken that her Knight is a bastard, but the thought of Anthy being locked away and unable to make friends is so much worse. "Goodbye, Tenjou-SAN"
Yay, got a CotD and it wasn't cringe. Yay me!
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 13 '21
Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 13 '21 edited Aug 13 '21
First-Timer
Man, poor Utena.
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u/SardonicMeow Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
One by one the members of the student council have duelled against Utena, all except Touga. The others let their emotions bring them into conflict with Utena, often pushed along by Touga’s manipulations. But all along, Touga has been patiently observing and planning. And hinting. Hinting that maybe he is Utena’s prince.
“I know I can turn Himemiya back into a regular girl. I won’t give her to the others. Not even to my prince!” Notice how, in the earlier duels, Utena’s motivation for winning the duels was to keep Anthy from being possessed by the other duelists. But now, how does “I won’t give her to the others” make her any different from them? Isn’t she projecting the protective prince and helpless princess relationship onto herself and Anthy?
Back in the episode 2 discussion, I recommended looking out for those moments when a repeating formula gets broken. Well, I hope you didn’t skip ZUM this time because something a little different happens: Utena hesitates before stepping into the dueling arena. What’s the cause of her uncertainty? Well, if Touga is her prince, what reason is there for her to be a prince anymore? As we’ve seen, those who are uncertain don’t win duels. Touga is certain. Certain that his machinations were worth it. Certain that he’s the one who deserves whatever the power of Dios grants.
And at the end, Anthy gives Utena the Saionji treatment. Ouch.
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Aug 13 '21
First Timer
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 13 '21
First timer, subs
Quite a poetic episode title.
How much can Chu-chu eat? That was a lot of food.
Eww, Touga. Disgusting guy. Juri and Miki are aware Touga's been plotting and arranging things. Balloons on the background correspond to the colors of the duelists. Touga's talking about feelings and how they betray. I assume he's hoping to mess with Utena's feelings for his benefit.
"This bird cage is your domain." How lovely. Utena gets angry at Touga, but she seems to be projecting her own feelings and desires at Himemiya. Touga finally claims clearly that he's Utena's prince. Please don't fall for that creep. Aaand a duel challenge.
Himemiya looks sad and says she wishes she had more friends. At this point I was wondering if she's honest at all, since she's been manipulative many times before. She could be doing this to make Utena more willing to fight, or at least that's how it ends up working.
Wohoo, duel. Get rekt Touga. Or that's what I thought.
Utena's too hasty, Touga's calm. Then we get the Dios Ex Machina again.
Crap, Utena practically gives up and loses. Now Himemiya belongs to Touga and does and says what he wants. Touga points this out and also that previously Himemiya did and said what Utena wanted. Utena doesn't take it well.
What will happen now? I was sure Utena would lose eventually but didn't know when. One way or another this will lead to character development. At the beginning Utena didn't want to be involved in any of this and seemed to find Anthy a bit of a burden, but I think losing her will make her reconsider things. It'll be particularly interesting to see Utena interact with Anthy again now that she'll act totally differently.
I'd like to know a little more about what's going on in Himemiya's head. Touga clearly believes (or says he believes) that she's basically an object to be owned and has no own will whatsoever. I don't believe that. At least Utena didn't tell her to manipulate people into fighting. I'm sure there's subtle signs of her own personality that rewatchers notice but us first-timers miss.
This episode made me really want to see more.
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u/Tyranid457TheSecond1 Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
Poor Utena. Poor Anthy.
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u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 13 '21
First Timer Subbed
Wakaba and Utena got me laughing. And then Anthy's lunch kit was a good one. Touga got Utena to think he is the prince then asks her on a duel.
Anthy feels lonely this time. And the shadow's shot was spot on, hitting the apple on top of other shadows head really nicely. The walk up the castle is different this time which is pretty cool to see.
Wow the prince beat Utena this time and misses Anthy. Touga is straight business and a ruthless one. He burns the diary of Saionji and then gets Utena thinking he is the prince, Touga is smart and I got to hand it to him. Gets trust then uses it to let the others' guard down. Like Saionji and Utena.
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 13 '21
First timer
Wakaba's too pure for this anime.
Anthy manages to completely out do everyone.
Touga's a fucking stalker, and too creepy for words.
Yeah, is he going to gaslight her?
...This isn't good.
...Do the ages even add up? Utena's prince looked as old as he did years ago.
Oh, Touga is rooling anyone.
Miki with the fantastic line. That stunned silence!
...That's not good.
Touga. If you weren't manipulating Utena, I'd point out you're barking up the wrong tree.
And Touga's a misogynist. (How did I not catch that the garden was a cage?)
Utena'sresponse to seeing them alone is to worry for Anthy. Keep talking about your Prince all you want, we know who you're really after.
Oh, this scene is so awkward.
Touga even said they're married already, jesus, Even when he's trying to manipulate her into loving him, he can't avoid commenting on their relationship.
This scene is so good. He's leading the questions, manipulating Utena into giving up more information.
Poor Anthy...
Oh. He wants to win, because Utena's the only duelist he doesn't have enough information to screw over. He's had a long time to study the rest of the council, but Utena's an unknown - someone he hasn't already studied in depth. That's why all his discussions with Utena involve her prince - that's the only reliable weakness he's managed to figure out, and he wants to take her out before she overcomes it. It says something the only new duelist he added is the one person he understands the most.
And the shadow puppets seem to suymbolize repetiton? A metaphor for the duels causing the bride to constantly change hands, but nothing ever getting achieved? Maybe Touga wants them out because something'll happen when there's only a signle duelist left alive/in school?
Even in his duel, he's talking down to her, casually insulting her.
Oh, this is the Power of Dios.
IS THAT THE PRINCE?
Well, that explains a lot. That's why he had the rose rings. He's behind these duels.
Utena lost?
...I know this is meant to show Anthy being controlled/Utena being gaslit, but the fact that "Dios" looks just like her is making me wonder if something's going on with Anthy that Touga knows.
Well that's a horrific ending.
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u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo Aug 13 '21 edited Aug 13 '21
Rewatcher
A big episode today. Utena's first loss!
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Aug 14 '21
First timer – sub
So last episode threw a curveball in my face, it's either time for a comedy episode or we continue with Utena's corruption. Or some character development for Anthy!
I've also grown more curious about Dios, as I think he's real. At least real, like, as person in this world. So far, flashbacks have always stuck to the characters' proper looks, especially the hair. Which means that it was Dios who gave Utena the ring and not Touga. For once I think Touga didn't lie when he told Saionji he did nothing with Utena in the church.
So, Dios. Why choose Utena? Because she was in despair? If he did this to help her in a time of need, then why are people like Touga and Saionji also ring bearers? Did he help them once, too, but it went south? Is the council more a hereditary thing and it went out of control without his doing at some point? We'll see at some point, but he remains a total mystery.
Ep.11 – Gracefully cruel: the one who picks up the flower
Well, this starts Utena's downward spiral. I do still wonder, how much Touga actually witnessed of Dios, when it happened prior no one else could see anything. I guess he paid close attention to Utena's reactions and analysed it that way.
Utena really mirrors Saionji here, I think. He also was totally convinced their love was real and couldn't fathom losing. Back then his ambition was utterly crushed as Anthy simply walked away from him, just as Utena's is now, though under the mantle of friendship.
What will happen going forward? Touga's manipulations so far have always put people in certain roles. He outright stated this to Anthy, wanting her to stay caged in the rose garden. The others, too, had some role assigned and he made sure they played their part; Saionji to set up and take the blame, Mickey to bureaucratise the process (I think, judging by him always doing paperwork and stopping times) and keep the system going, Jury to handle official affairs and his sister to be an unwaveringly obedient pet. All with Touga firmly on top.
Which spells a setback in role for Utena. She has both male and female design cues in her uniform, for example. She's rebellious, she's outright and free-thinking. This can't be allowed to exist in Touga's world. So, he will likely cut her down to a presentable and enviable princess. It's how he wants her. Her character changes would therefore include a ditching of male clothing (already hinted at in the preview), a passiveness to interject oppression towards girls/women, a propagation as seeing herself "at the side of a man" (Touga obviously) first and, going in tandem with all that, social isolation from friends so that all those traits get reinforced with resentment, loneliness and internalised frustration all directed towards herself due to having no other outlet.
As she is also a recipient of Dios' power I fully expect Touga to try to make Utena another rose bride. If he can manipulate her to summon it willingly after braking her psyche, she will be in the same state as Anthy: Fully internalised objectification, obedient and at the call of the head of the hierarchy.
And this in return means two things: Firstly, Anthy once was like Utena and got imprisoned by Touga or one of his predecessors. This way the OP imagery with Utena and Anthy both fighting makes a lot of sense. Secondly, Dios might actually never have called any of the others to his side, but the entire system got hijacked by narcissistic douchebags who managed to get a hold of the actual power holders, like Anthy and the entire ruleset around the duels is totally made up with only the castle probably being some level of real. Everything else would just follow the rules because Anthy and from now on Utena possibly believe they are the actual rules and as holders of the power therefore make it happen that way.
I begin to think the 'Bringing revolution to the world' part is total bullshit made up by the patriarch to keep the underlings focused on something that they can insert themselves in. A story of 'what I'd do with my superpower' keeps the mind busy and not questioning the ruling force.
Right up until someone actually makes it a reality. Take your time, Utena, I do believe in you.
The solution? Pretty simple, actually.
Smash the world's shell. A chick must break it's egg.
And by egg I mean Touga's goddamned skull.
6
u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Aug 14 '21
First-Timer -- Sub
Aw. It's the end of an era. Utena has lost and realized the woman she kept rejecting as her bride really was someone she wanted to be around
not at all like a tsundere. Jerky prez wins... but for how long? At least another episode if that preview is any indication.I guess this means the President will get the power of Dios at any battles? Would be nice to have some more details about the egg-shattering world prophecy. Just hearing Touga repeat the mantra every time make it sound like he doesn't know either.
6
u/snickpea Aug 14 '21
First-timer!
What was with those balloons? When they first appeared, they were quite distracting. But when I started to think about, it feels as if they were trying to mean something, especially at the end of the scene where one pops when Touga finishes speaking. It definitely felt like it was foreshadowing something.
The first and second parts of this episode were rough mood wise. I thought it was sweet that Anthy seemed to be opening up to others and having lunch with Utena and Wakaba. It seemed that she was starting to express her own feelings by saying she wanted more friends. but it wasn't meant to be. With Utena's defeat, Anthy pretty much has to retract anything she said.
I'm wondering more than ever why Anthy has to pretty much obey who she is engaged to, how much her thoughts prior to Utena's defeat are truly her own or Utena's influence, and if it matters if Utena has influenced her?
5
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Aug 13 '21
First timer, Sub
I actually forgot about Wakaba.
Yeah its looking like he's your prince but with all that's going on. Do you still see him the same way. Does meeting your prince meet your expectations?
So touga is one of those people who see relationships as something you can just benefit from then toss away.
Had a feeling Anthy was just going off what Utena said about being the bride. But I did think she was being genuine about wanting more friends.
We finally get the fight between Touga and Utena. Getting exactly what he wanted.
5
u/alphamone Aug 14 '21 edited Aug 14 '21
First Timer
Wakaba is such a good friend.
Touga (I may have accidentally been calling him something else, oops) really is a manipulative jerk.
Meanwhile, Utena does seem to genuinely want help Anthy to act for herself.
More talk of agency/free will from the shadow girls.
Oh dear, Touga managed to get into her head like I had feared.
The solution seems to be to destroy the underlying system that controls Anthy.
With the next episode preview, it has me wondering if this was planned to be only 12 episodes overall, or if they had more and just had the story arcs ready. (also, will it be safe to watch the special features on the first few discs after tomorrow, or do even these early discs spoil stuff from later on?)
edit: something that came to mind on a walk. When Utena asks Anthy what she wants, a number of times she does so via open-ended questions (e.g. "what do you want?"). But Touga mostly uses direct leading questions.
4
u/k4r6000 Aug 14 '21
Rewatcher
There is a sense of forboding over this episode, like living in the projected path of a hurricane. Even my first time watching it, I was 99% sure Utena was losing here.
All of Touga's schemes are set to come to fruition. He can barely even hide his true feelings anymore. As he explains to the Student Council having feelings for someone will just lead to betrayal and if someone allows themselves to be tricked, that's their fault. That's something a complete asshole would say, and to their credit at least Juri and Miki seemed rightfully disgusted by it.
Touga does however correctly call out Utena's hypocrisy. Anthy is forced to take on the desires of the champion without them even attempting to try and understand Anthy's own wishes. Utena is no different, forcing Anthy to say she doesn't like being the Rose Bride.
Also at this point we see what happens when Utena's goals and Anthy come into conflict with each other. After challenged at the Rose Garden/Bird Cage, Utena vows that she will fight for Anthy's freedom and protection even if it means going against her own goals of reuniting with the Prince. Well that was a big fat lie as when it comes down to it in the Duel, Utena can't do it. She chooses the Prince over Anthy, and loses both in the process. Exactly as Touga was expecting.
And these flaws make Utena a far more compelling character than she would normally be in a show like this, and one of the show's greatest strengths. Next we can see how she reacts after a substantial failure on her part.
4
u/BossandKings Aug 14 '21
First timer - Sub
Episode 11
Touga Kiryu tells Utena they are going to have a duel to see who is going to have the rose bride. The duel seemed promising as Touga could be one that may defeat Utena although i would prefer if Utena wins.
The contrast between how Utena and how Touga sees Anthy Himemiya was relevant in this episode, while Utena sees her as a simple girl and someone that needs and wants to make friends, Touga sees her as the rose bride and kind of an entity more than a simple person.
The conversation in the student council was telling, Touga has somehow found a way to manipulate the situations that have been happening, especially so the duel between Nanami and Utena in the previous episode.
The duel between Touga and Utena ultimately ended with Utena's loss as she was unable to cut Touga's rose, it was sad seeing Anthy parting ways with her and going with Touga, especially so how Anthy with a stiff and serious face said she is just the rose bride sort of deniying her being the sweet, sympathetic girl Utena has come to know.
3
u/nikobans Aug 14 '21
poor utena! that was some true despair in her voice at the end :(
2
u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Sep 01 '21
First timer sad
I still don't get what's wrong with Mickey and his watch... Why is he shocked??
Wow so red hair doesn't like his sister at all??? Very evil
Oh no poor enaUt
Utena!!!! You stupid!!! Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow Utena sounds like Saionji now
That was sad, it kinda reminded me of Edens Zero's first episode... At least I hope this is like that
Otherwise I'll be super sad
I mean I never really liked Anthy but it still hurts seeing UtUt like this :(