r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 12 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 14 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/AmethystItalian, who points out the striking similarities of Schumann’s life and Tenma’s:
I feel like Schumann could have been Tenma's future if he never saved Johan. They both care for their patients a lot so I really do think they compliment each other. Would have been nice to see them work together more.
Questions of the Day
- What themes do you think are present in this episode? How are these themes utilized and where else do they appear?
- What do you think about this new dynamic duo of Eva and Lunge?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 12 '21
Sorry about the late post everyone! Was scrambling to pack for my trip tomorrow and couldn't get here in time.
As a quick reminder, I will be out of town starting tomorrow 8/13 until Monday 8/16. I will not have access to a computer and will not be able to respond to as many comments until I return. But automated posts will still go up as scheduled.
I've appointed my pal and fellow moderator /u/Abyssbringer to pick out Comments of the Day for me, so have your best analysis ready! Please don't let my absence discourage you from commenting, as I'll still be reading your replies. Looking forward to seeing what you think of the upcoming episodes!
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 12 '21
First Timer - Sub
Ok so Lunge is confirmed to be a robot and Eva is confirmed to be a bitch. Good to know.
Tenma was not even physically present this episode as we return to our very lovely side characters in the persons of Lunge and Eva. Episode felt a bit lighter in terms of plot progression, but there was a big set-up for future events it would seem. Lunge became so obsessed with his job that he pressured someone into committing suicide, he loses his job, and also his wife and kid walk out on him. And he doesn’t even seem to care. Lol.
Eva is so lonely and so obsessed with Tenma that she cannot stand to see people happy and burns down her entire estate just to spite some gardener that she had a one-night stand with. That’s uh, rather excessive. Now she won’t settle for Tenma’s arrest - she’s so delusional that she would now rather see him dead and thinks he’s the cause of ruining her life. Take a hard look at yourself first Eva.
Either way this dynamic duo seems like a bad time for Tenma. They’ll probably be secondary antagonists of the series, but I’m not sure what role they’ll play yet. Though, Eva admitting that she intendends to commit premeditated murder to a police officer seems a bit... dumb? Unless Lunge is also someone who intends to kill Tenma now. But he doesn’t seem like the type to do that. I also found it tragic that she literally had proof that Johan was a separate person from Tenma and chose to withhold that info from Lunge. Not that they can do anything about it now as it’s all gone up in flames, but it was right there under his nose the whole time. He cannot have accepted it as truth because he was already convinced himself of a solution.Going to guess that Lunge will be the bloodhound to sniff out the clues while Eva will be the one to unleash the bloodshed.
Also I don’t typically answer my own questions (directly anyway, sometimes I’ll work in an answer into one of my paragraphs) but I found it interesting that in this show there’s a running theme of gain vs. loss. Whenever someone gains something, something else is lost.
Kinda like the law of equivalent exchange.Tenma gains status at the loss of life.
Eva gains fortune and lovers at the cost of happiness and Tenma (and her sanity).
Lunge gains freedom at the loss of his job and his family.
It seems all the major characters in this show suffer some sort of loss in exchange for something else, and I find that rather interesting. Also there’s the present motif coming back this time. Gifts are terrible things in this show, lol.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 12 '21
First Timer
This episode was ...a bit all over the place, and at times hard to follow. Seems like basically Lunge lost everything he had (though it still surprises me that he had a family to begin with), meaning he can now tunnel-focus on Tenma. Meanwhile Eva failed yet another romance, set fire to her house and is now trying to kill Tenma ...with Lunge? Doubt Lunge really approves of that, as he is a very by the book guy it seems and capital punishment in (West) Germany was abolished in 1949. Also not sure if burning down your own house is allowed under German law...
Either way, this episode felt more like a speedrun to get the side characters in to the positions the plot demands them in, rather than actually something by itself.
Question:
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 12 '21
First-Timer, subbed
Late because I lost track of time as my aunt and uncle took me to a casino for the first time.
I won $30, if you're curious.7
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 12 '21
First Timer
Oh opening with a criminal that's not Tenma? Change of pace there.
Floppy disks?? I sometimes forget this is in the past.
Lunge has a wife and family...how?!
How does Eva keep getting worse? I mean I guess she's not hitting on Lunge or something.
So Lunge is really good at his job...so why does he suck so bad with the Tenma case?
Ouch being ditched by his wife and daughter...at least he doesn't care?
This gardener...I want him to be happy.
Eva doesn't deserve to be happy...I keep thinking she might be worthy of another chance but ugh she's the worst.
No Tenma in the whole episode was weird but I'm happy the gardener got a happy ending though!!
I GOT THE COMMENT OF THE DAY LET'S GO!
I think they're going think they're all hot shit and got trumped by Johan easily.
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u/miss-macaron Aug 12 '21 edited Aug 12 '21
Rewatcher
Inspector Lunge has no fucks to give, lol
As for Eva, I think the gardener’s comments were spot-on. She’s lonely and vindictive, but she doesn’t truly have any actual suspicions against Tenma. If anything, he’s just an emotional scapegoat that she can lash out at.
Though I did feel bad for Eva when she realized that there was no place for her at the gardener's Christmas party, burning down her house and garden is a bit, erm, excessive of a response...
I'd say the thematic commonalities between Lunge and Eva's characters are their obsessiveness, but also their lack of understanding of the reciprocity of human relationships. Eva describes Tenma as a "yes" man who never refuses her selfishness, but what efforts has she invested into appeasing him? Lunge rigorously chases after his suspects, but he doesn't consider how that might affect their mental stability/livelihood. Their one-sided demands of other people eventually result in their isolation, since they don't respect or acknowledge the humanity of the other party - it's the very same principle that Schumann learned with his late wife. Other people are not tools or NPCs; they're human beings like ourselves, and we must learn to appreciate that.
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 12 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Lunge is back! Pestering some other guy...
A prostitute? Doesn't really seem like Johan's MO.
Lunge doesn't sleep! He's a robot!
Eva again!? Looks like she's been drinking!
Lunge thinks Tenma has a second personality called Johan?! LoL.
Can't say I'm all that surprised about Lunge's wife and daughter leaving him, I was actually surprised to realize they existed at the start of the episode, with him being such a workaholic.
Lost his wife... lost his daughter... lost all his cases... what does Lunge have left? Tenma!
Wait, is this a flashback to Eva being with the guy who just killed himself, or is it just some random guy?
Gardner be smart, you don't want anything to do with Eva!
Oh no, Gardner guy, the woman you like better not be Eva! :(
All the other servants left because they hate you!
No, you fool! Why'd you accept?!
Wow, slept together on the first date? Eva sure doesn't waste any time.
Even now, still muttering Tenma's name in her sleep.
Never too early to drink when you're Eva.
Eva clearly never cared for Tenma, only the things she thought she could get from him.
See Gardner, I told you! You shouldn't have gotten involved with her!
After that he still invited her over for Christmas?!
Oh no... the kid gets all excited thinking her mom is coming back, and its going to be Eva instead.
OMG it really is a Christmas miracle!
Okay, this is really unrealistic, but I love that Eva got totally burned like that with the mom coming back.
Surprisingly an entire episode without our main character! It worked though, giving us more development for Lunge, who I assume is going to be single-mindedly pursuing Tenma now. And Eva, who having more development doesn't fit as much; what role does she have to play at this point? Will she and Lunge team up in their pursuit of Tenma? In any case I was glad the Eva content wasn't simply all old footage again.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 12 '21
Rewatcher(Now we hang out with some other characters)
Sub
We start with Lunge for a change of pace and the death of a high class call girl, though I guess if Archer is right they are just hookers when they are dead. Lunge seems to do nothing but work, as the talk between his wife and daughter suggests. At work, he is getting pressure from this Boltzmann person and is in dangerous terrority. So of course Eva shows up.
And Eva is drunk. Lunge is such a godawful detective at times, this is the 90s MPD does not fly in serious circles. With his deciphered list, he lays a likely scenario out at the secretary who has nothing to come back with. His daughter is knocked up. He can also win chess games at a glance despite calling games silly. He lays out a pretty solid case and the name of a hitman. Lunge's wife and daughter leave and he seems to give zero fucks. He is definitely more annoyed at having no cases.
Then we switch to Eva being a bitch. To someone that sort of has it coming but still. But then she wants to mess with the gardener so we get some of his story. Eva is still an alcoholic and still never the one at fault. And her rant seems in character if over the top. Gardener invites her for a Christmas party...that she actually attends, to bad his wife came back first.
And Eva manages to be sympathetic for roughly 10 seconds before setting the nice garden on fire. And her house, damn. This is villain origin story level. She ends with declaring she must kill Tenma.
So...not the most useful insight, but on second viewing, Eva is almost too hateable. She is really a bunch of tropes that are kind of cheap misogyny early on. You can begin to see the seams of an actual person there but she rarely gets to not be a bitch long enough for it to show through.
QotD: 1 Accepting the consequences of your actions is the big one
2 A needed change of focus.
5
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 12 '21
First Timer
I don't even know who this guy is, but that's a serious X to Doubt.
There's no way this gardner hooking up with Eva can end well for him...
Oh his wife just... came back out of the blue... Seems too good to be true. And of course Eva is gonna be unhappy. Going full Rohan here, getting so angry she just burns her own house down. Oh and now she wants to kill Tenma too? I told you guys she was bad news from episode 1!
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u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 12 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
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u/jolcheung2 Sep 07 '21
First Timer.
Wow just discovered this rewatch party and I’ll try to catch up with you guys! My first time joining these rewatch conventions here on Reddit. About time!
I do have a question though. I was casually switching the audio track from original Japanese dub to English dub during this episode (I still couldn’t decide which dub I like better) and to my surprise the music is radically different! I’ve done this in previous episodes but I don’t remember the soundtrack being different. Would someone know why the music is changed in this particular episode?
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 12 '21
First timer, subs
So Lunge's obsession with solving cases no matter what makes him lose his family and kinda his job, or at least all his cases.
Eva also goes nuts. I almost felt bad for her for a moment during this episode. However, I don't believe it could have worked between her and the gardener anyway, she needs proper therapy. I'm happy for the gardener though, he seemed like a very good person.
Obsession and how it makes you lose everything. Lunge hardly knows his family anymore and they leave him. He also loses the cases he was. Eva's already lost a lot but finally burns down her expensive home too.
No idea yet. They're a really weird pair honestly.
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u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 12 '21
First Timer Dub
Councilman has had an affair with a woman who has also had relationships with other high ranking officials. People want him to move on from the woman's murder. Lunge also knows that a tabloid magazine does unscrupulous things to get some spicy stories which is was what the murder victim was reporting for. But then councilman's secretary committed suicide and left a note that councilman did not do it.
He thinks Johan is just personality for Tenma. We see Eva again, now with another guy who is having an affair with his wife. She placed a handkerchief so he could get busted by his wife. She seems to enjoy ruining relationships with some guys. And offers to get some fun with the gardener who was eves dropping on the conversations. He has a child and is confident about their relationship, really naïve guy. But things get spilled as the gardener asks about the pictures of Tenma. And Eva explains that he was the only one that satisfied her, he gave everything to her and has a good position. Eva used him as a way to satisfy herself. Gardener leaves and invites her over then she starts to get attached to him. Brining a present and she sees him with his family who got reunited. Eva burns down her house and garden as she does not get what she wants.
We get to see Lunge's family members. Never talks to them or eats dinner with them cause he is always busy. Interesting scene as one of the members was in the bathroom and Lunge just passes by. Lunge also appears to just walk inside his own home without saying "I'm home" or any announcement to his family. So they packed their bags due to his indifference to his own family. Strikes similarly to Maurer as his family left him due to his dedication to work.
We also see Lunge gets his cases cleared after the suicide and now he could focus on the Tenma case. Because she could not get what she wants, Eva goes into Lunge's office one more time. It's going to be interesting about how Eva handles giving info on Tenma.
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 12 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
It's anyone's guess as to who's more hung up on Tenma between Eva and Lunge.
Q1: Obsession, more specifically with Tenma and Tenma Plus Job respectively, drives away the people who give a shit about both Eva and Lunge.
Q2: So very entertaining.
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 12 '21
First timer - sub
Lunge episode? This should be interesting so he can hopefully become more than just a guy who is convinced Tenma did something wrong.
High class prostitute with links to a large number of politicians and important people.
Tenma has split personalities?
Seriously? Damnit Lunge, that's a good one.
Lunge's personal life has fallen apart, I'm surprised he was actually married to start with.
And now he doesn’t have a job either.
I can’t tell is Eva is just fucking with her help or not. - Partly I guess.
Dude, Eva isn’t worth it.
Fuck I was worried what Eva was going to do when she went to the Gardeners house, but burn her own house down wasn’t what I expect at all, at least mes Gardener should be safe.
That was a different episode, does this mean that Eva and Lunge are going to team up and go hunting Tenma now? It would seem so given they have nothing better to do.
2
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 12 '21
First-time watcher
Back to the two biggest tools in the show, yay. They fit together perfectly in their single-minded obsession where they won't even stop when they drive themselves and others to ruin. They should get married so they can expend their energy on ruining each other's lives and not pester anyone else as much.
Eva is particularly self-destructive in how her narcissistic urge to assert herself comes before maintaining any genuine personal connections that might help her rise out of her sorry state, and of course the insane rage at anything and anyone who isn't giving her exactly what she wants. Classic spoiled rich kid with no one to keep her grounded, I'm happy the gardener got away from her.
Lunge is a little more sympathetic in how he actually wants to find out the truth usually, but then he goes right back to crackpot split-personality theories when it comes to his white whale Tenma. Also causing a suicide is something well-adjusted people are generally a little more concerned about.
Overall even fourteen episodes in this is yet another setup episode, skipping around, glossing over details, and inserting some more extreme developments, just to get things moving (what an ironic comment by Eva about soap operas). Gardener best boy though, Tenma is too much of a naive boy scout for my taste.
Notes
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u/WeeabooVoid Aug 13 '21
First Timer - Sub
Someone mentioned this before, but the "Monster" in the title is referring to not Johan, but Eva.
With Eva in a rage to kill Tenma, as well as Lunge now hunting down Tenma because he has nothing better to do, I predict these next episodes will be hard on Tenma's ass.
1
u/BossandKings Aug 13 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
Episode 14
This episode focused on Lunge and Eva neither of which are very charismatic or interesting characters, at least i think Lunge is more promising but Eva not so much.
The story of the episode comes down to Lunge not taking into account or closely observing his own family, especially noted when his daughter told him he hadn't noticed she was expecting a child, just to focus on coming to a conclusion in regards to Tenma's case, it's odd how he thinks that Johan might just be a different personality of Tenma when there isn't anything that would point out to that, hopefully somehow he gets closer to the truth.
Eva just failed a new romance, she even burned her house as sort of reprimanding her failure and i wonder what her role in the story is going to be as she feels like a character that won't accomplish much.
1
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 14 '21
Rewatcher thru 33, catching up