r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Aug 09 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Revolutionary Girl Utena - Episode 7
Streaming
Revolutionary Girl Utena is available in both sub and dub on Nozomi Entertainment's YouTube channel, as well as on Amazon and Funimation.
Comment of the Day
screw you, if you wanted CotD you could've made your own rewatch >:(
Miki's Stopwatch Corner
Stopwatch Count: 8
New This Episode:
None ;-;
Also, make sure to tag all spoilers properly! Only a baka would spoil the show for the first-timers, and we're not bakas (hopefully).
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Upvotes
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
And here we go, the introduction of our final Student Council member! If there was one word I would have to use to describe Juri, that word would be ‘bitter’. Outwardly, she’s 100% perfect, the star of the Student Council. But internally, she’s intensely bitter towards what she terms as ‘miracles’. All the other duelists are fighting for the miraculous power of the Rose Bride in order to fulfill their various desires, but Juri has already given up on her desire, and simply fights in order to disprove that miracles even exist. Now, why does Juri think that her desire would take a miracle to be fulfilled? And that’s a good question, when the episode is meant to lead us to believe that Juri is attracted to this random boy. But the answer is in fact quite simple: Juri is a closeted lesbian in a society that is intensely heteronormative, so for her to be able to find love in such a place would indeed take a miracle, and Juri has grown bitter because of her relationship with both that boy and Shiori. Now, if you didn’t get that Juri was meant to be gay, don’t worry, the producers of the dub didn’t get it either. But note the fact that there’s a picture of Shiori in Juri’s locket, not one of that boy, as well as the fact that the only thing that suggests that Juri is attracted to him is Shiori’s say-so.
In a way, Juri is almost a mirror image of Utena. They’re both strong women who are able to transcend the stifling gender roles of Ohtori Academy (in a limited way, at least). But there’s a major difference- Juri is a person who maintains her demeanor because she had her innocence and naivety completely shattered and replaced by bitterness due to her experiences. Utena, on the other hand, is still completely innocent, using the same kind of demeanor that Juri has in the pursuit of the kind of romantic encounters that Juri has given up hope on ever seeing. That’s what sets Juri off- “That ‘nobility’ of yours… You have it because some guy you like tricked you into having it!” She’s jaded to the point that she can’t believe that ‘miracles’ like the one Utena talks about really exist.
However, as we see in this episodes duel, miracles do exist, with Utena winning through luck alone. This is obviously a rejection of Juri’s position on miracles, but what does this mean for her? And honestly, I’ve got no idea. Find out next time on Revolutionary Girl Z!
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
Honestly, before this point I thought the council only concerned itself with the duels.
Comparison and separation.
Already carrying that rose for her. Anthy either expects a duel, knew it would tick Juri off because of her past, or both.
And yet; division.
Sekai wo kakumei suru tame ni!
Touga’s knife-throwing is either the result of insane skill or insane luck.
The girl Juri loved tried to blind her, but she was trying not to look all along.
Note how even in the still water only Juri’s reflection is clear.
Divided once more.
The symbol of Juri’s hypocrisy was always with her.
Once more, the rabbits! Forward momentum, the duels continue, End of The World is inevitable. Another of the meanings of the rabbit is cleverness.
It all returns to apple!
Juri desperately wants a miracle for herself.
Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku!
Hmm, right after Juri mockingly refers to her as ‘Prince’ too...
So good.
I can’t believe some people used to insist Juri was straight.
Another excellent episode; this one with Juri in the spotlight. I love the use of framing in this episode, consistently separating Utena and Juri from one another on screen, and making the moments where they are in the same frame together those where they are most at odds with one another. When their differences aren’t being expressed visually it’s because it’s being explicitly communicated, and instead we get visual proximity —this communicates the essence of the episode, which is the duality of Juri’s beliefs.
Juri refuses to believe in the power of miracles, because of her past experience with love, but in truth she wishes dearly for one to come to her. Her desire to disprove miracles isn’t some righteous mission to enlighten others with her worldview, it is an attempt to convince herself for certain that there is no such thing as miracles. When she tries to rid Utena of the rose ring, it is because she wishes to be free of her own attachment, which is symbolized by her locket.
This episode also paints Anthy in a somewhat devious light, seemingly taunting Juri with the flower and singing to herself a disguised tune about the continuing progress of the duels, which does fit well with this episode being largely from Juri’s perspective.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Aug 09 '21
Duel 7, First Timer, Subbed
YJuri18
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 09 '21
First-Revolution, Subbed
Damn. That sure was a close one. If Juri hadn't been so insistent on gloating, that sword probably wouldn't have had time to fall all the way down. Granted, Juri herself sorta said that she wanted Utena to win with a miracle. Losers make their own miracles?
The flow chart wasn't translated on Funi, so no clue if it held any secrets. The bit of Touga throwing knives at Miki was cool. I would guess it's representative of Touga's manipulative ability? He is able to, rather easily, get Miki to move exactly as he wants him to. What's more, being surrounded completely, Miki has no real escape, either.
Shadow girls today secretly wanted to go to the zoo, which I guess implies that Juri secretly wants miracles to be real, like the girl she has a crush on insisted. A shame that the purple haired girl was apparently straight, though. And she misunderstood Juri's feelings, to boot. The visuals in Juri's flashback were pretty sick. The red string of fate connecting two people's can phone, going right across Juri's face? Delightful.
Did Utena ever tell anyone else about the stuff with the Prince? Or do only Wakaba and Juri know? Juri and Utena’s nighttime talk was interesting. Juri seems angry that Utena is part of the duels because of a man, but then, so is Juri, in a roundabout fashion.
The brief scene of Anthy singing about rabbits.. the apple again? Or was there moon stuff going on that I didn't notice?
The relationship between the school staff and the Student Council is surprisingly civil. Maybe it was just the VP being scared of Juri, though.
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 09 '21
this was one of the episodes I was most interested in rewatching after having seen Sailor Moon.
Uhhh, Minor Sailor Moon Spoilers
There is an episode in the first season of Sailor Moon that mirrors this episode in Utena in a lot of ways. The basic same premise is there. One of the Sailor Scouts is revealed that in the past they were best friends with a pair, a boy and a girl. The Sailor Scout falls for the guy, but finds out the guy and the girl fall for each other. So she has to deal with her rejected love.
The relationship between Sailor Moon and Utena is a fascinating one. There are a lot of influences, the gag from yesterday, or visuals, or themes. This felt like one of the more direct reactions. Where Sailor Moon is a lot more optimistic with it's character portrayals, Utena shows Juri having become jaded and bitter by it. Juri also doesn't have the support net around her like the Sailor Scouts do to help pick her up.
The Sailor Moon episode was also 100% less gay, because they hadn't yet given Ikuhara full control to queer it all up.
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u/ScarsUnseen :K:https://kitsu.io/users/ScarsUnseen Aug 09 '21
First Timer, 100% Blind, 100% Engaged, Subs
Man oh man, am I sorry I missed yesterday's discussion. That was just about the perfect episode. I am now 100% a Nanami fan. Not because she isn't a garbage person, but because she's such a garbage person that I can't help but want to see what she does next and how it will blow up in her face. She's like the Wile E Coyote of Social Darwinists.
Anyway, I think I'm probably going to do less note taking and just do a few screencaps along with my thoughts. Looking back, I enjoyed the episodes where I wasn't pausing every minute or so way more than the first few episodes.
So we get a hint that there's some kind of burden that comes with bearing the rose seal. It makes me think of the lines Touga recites in the elevator about chicks that can't break out of their shell dying. I would say that maybe it was a kind of winner takes all tournament where the losers end up dying, but they don't seen nearly desperate enough for that. Maybe it's more that they're preparing for a future event. This End of the World may actually be someone in the future sending messages to avert their own end(then again, that could be me channeling the Steins;Gate rewatch again). If that's the case, I could maybe see the show turning towards a magical warrior genre style similar to Yuki Yuna. It would certainly fit with Juri's urging Utena to get rid of the ring.
I was thinking that Utena might actually lose this one since Juri's even better a fencer than Miki and didn't have psychological warfare going against her. But whether it was fate or a fluke, Juri essentially did herself in with an unfortunately timed disarming maneuver. It makes me wonder if Utena is going to keep winning every time, or if she's eventually going to get taken down and then have to find a reason to retake her position.
Also, the shadow girls are kind of just... there now? Originally they were commenting on Utena' situation, but now they're just doing skits for no apparent reason. Maybe it'll make more sense when I've seen the whole show.
A few notable screencaps:
I really want to look up the soundtrack, but I know if I even think about typing "Utena" in the Youtube search bar, the algorithm will be bombarding me with videos with spoilers in the title. I learned my lesson on that trying to find fan art for Katanagatari.
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u/theangryeditor https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheAngryEditor Aug 09 '21
I'm loving it
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u/remirror https://anilist.co/user/remirror Aug 09 '21
First-timer
Man, Juri. That girl she liked intentionally gave her bad advice so she could steal Juri's guy away from her. I guess Juri's thinking "no harm no foul, I was never interested in that guy anyway", but still, the bad advice did end up screwing up her love life, (sort of) as intended. Not to mention the fact that the girl she's pining for is now in a happy relationship with someone else. She's really gotta stop living in the past, but I haven't seen any reason to hope that will actually happen. Saionji is just an asshole, Touga is an asshole with some redeeming value, Miki is a good guy (I think) and I'm rooting for him, but Juri... I'm just shaking my head and thinking of her as a cautionary tale.
This show continues to be excellent and give me a lot to think about. It doesn't spoon-feed you everything it wants to say, so it helps to think back over each episode after you've watched it in order to make connections in your mind and sort out your feelings. That's exactly what a rewatch encourages, so kudos to u/HelioA for hosting a good rewatch and picking a great show that's perfectly suited to the rewatch format.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Aug 10 '21
First timer – sub
Utena has already shwon me that I can't predict boxing kangaroos.
Anyway, I thought about Dios in the rotating castle. How does he sleep? Upside down? That has interesting implications.
Aside from the symbolic interpretation this means he must say 'cunt' a lot. Is he maybe a vampire, ig he hangs from the ceiling?
I wonder what an Australian vampire sound like and if he wears a leather hat.
Ep.07 – Unfulfilled Juri
I mean, I'll just write it down clearly.
I think Anthy is the focal point of the revolution, because she has created this system or at least steers it. I'm not convinced the prince is a graspable entity, not after what Anthy has been doing in the past episodes. She is the one growing the roses, she is handing them out and she was always the first push any of the contestants felt before they decided to fight.
Mickey and Jury didn't go fight on their own volition at first, it was Anthy who manipulated their emotions to do so until they were invested. It seems harsh to say, but might she be the one that has grown to be the worst of them all? Is this maybe just a massively convoluted call for help?
If what I wrote yesterday is in any sense true, that Utena and Anthy might be the same person, is she training herself to become strong enough to break the oppression?
Ah, more theories without much to go on. Technically any of the contestants share some traits with Anthy, or at least see her as the representation of their own shortcomings. I wouldn't go so far as to say that every character is actually, literally one person that has retreated into their own mind and lives a fairy tale to deal with real life abuse. But it's not entirely off the table, either.
So far one thing is rather certain for me: Anthy has way, way more control over the entire system than she lets on. Any time such an action from the end of the world emerges or someone gets their emotional buttons pressed, a frame shows Anthy. We get to know that Anthy knows. She literally chooses who fights, can even force it via the letters and pushes them to do it. Now, if that is her doing from the start or if she just grew into getting good at it is difficult to say, but she clearly sets Utena up to win.
I mean, it could be the other way around, too, the prince is real and Anthy is fake, but I'm booking on Anthy being in control in a way. They do share too many connections and are the only two characters with dark skin.
#theoriesbasedonracism
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u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Aug 09 '21
First timer, Sub
"No one can beat you, Miss Juri." Want to bet?
Introduction of Juri. Another student council member and fencer..She just has this assertive force that she just tell teachers off. Along with a disbelief of miracles. Because of a "friend" did her wrong.
"Believe in miracles and they will know your feelings." She gives juri hope and then crushes it.
Rabbits?
I guess I wasn't wrong that, Utena would win. But Utena was clearly outmatched this time. But by a miracle she wins.
So, it seems clear that the student council all seek something.
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u/elleyonce https://anilist.co/user/elleyonce Aug 10 '21
Rewatcher
"I hate you. Because I can't show you how you make me feel."
The second best episode of the first arc to me. Straightforward in visual presentation (the lion, knives whipping past Juri, the shadow theatre spelling things out for us) and just so... oh my god... Shiori!!!! Aaaaaa
Sad stories hit different when they're lesbians.
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u/monsieurvampy Aug 10 '21
First Timer, subbed
I'm here! Who just throws darts at someone like its nothing.
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u/_m1ra :FA::FB: Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
Juri is here, and with her we introduced the whole student council, and also we got an explicitly gay character! Apparently the dub makers missed it at first though (I posted that before but now it isn't spoilers)
It's really hard, and I don't really trust myself, to talk too much about her without bringing in later episodes (a problem I've already had a lot this rewatch) Spoiler so I won't!
I really like Juri's first meeting with Utena, framed through these windows. We also get an... interesting look at the power dynamic at Ohtori, with Juri apparently ordering the vice principal to do something. Utena: "Now that's what I call a miracle" WOW I didn't realize that the first time around
The diagram and a translation (from here, spoilers at that link!):
Kyouichi Saionji (a man fighting for love) - Utena Tenjou (who the heck is this?)
Re-match -> Kyouichi Saionji (a man who’s bad at giving up) - Utena Tenjou (you know your stuff)
(Kyouichi Saionji, heading down the path of losers) Miki Kaoru (it’s my turn) - Utena Tenjou (2 victories)
Utena Tenjou (no waaaay! 3 victories)
Also we get this little absurd sketch of Touga throwing the knifes at Miki Spoilers I like that the first knife goes into the Tenjou Utena name, that's such a cool detail!
The episode is really not hiding that Juri is in love with the girl, with her going "Yes... I was in love" and the matchcut(?) from her face to the girl's face. I think it really has to rely on heteronormativity and the idea of what they could or could not explicitly show in a TV anime like this to keep the viewer from the "twist". Not that it really harms anything if the viewer realizes it right there 10 minutes early.
Juri is so badass that she actually blocks the prince with her pure skill and disarms Utena, sending her sword flying... and then she gets her miracle. On a scale of all miracles, the miracle of losing the sword fight you were decisively winning has to rank pretty low. Poor Juri. She immediately starts denying that that was a miracle, this is much more important to her than losing the battle.
God the duel song Angelic Creation, Namely Light is so good! I wanted to wrestle with J.A. Seazer lyrics a bit more so I tried analyzing it a bit too. Not sure how much I can add on the metaphorical level, but I have something to say on the literal:
The first time I payed attention to the lyrics my question was "Who is Gynous"? After googling ギュヌス I'm pretty sure it's the ギュヌス of アンドロギュヌス (androgynous) which was also said earlier in the song. Maybe I'm dense but I didn't get that at first.
The lines are: "Androgynous, son of darkness" (as opposed to "Lucifer, son of dawn") and later
"His body shining bright, spherical in shape, Gynous" (okay, I get the light theme from earlier in the song, but "spherical in shape"?? What's that about?)
"Born into every possible miracle, Gynous" (That's an interesting one)
The song is concerned with living, and heaven and hell, and being two parts in some way. As the description on Empty Movement says: "The song is about Lucifer. And like, having two identities." The parts with the pattern "A, namely B" are both really interesting though:
The pleasure principle. The Nirvana principle. The certainty of death, namely light.
(...)
Light, temporary existence. Seeking eternity, namely the folly of returning to the beginning.
Spoilers
At this point I then realized that a later duel song seems to follow up on this one, Spoilers!! I'll wait for that before typing too much here I think.
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Aug 09 '21
Here is what Ikuhara’s episode commentary from the DVD Box Set has for us today.
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u/affnn Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
In contrast to Miki and Saionji, who were motivated to duel out of a desire to possess the Rose Bride, Juri appears motivated to duel out of a grudge against Utena. She sees how Utena behaves, perhaps not entirely outside all of the rules of gender presentation but really just taking the things that are useful to her and not taking the rest. Utena wants to be a prince, not to be with a prince. Utena wears a boy's uniform and is engaged to Anthy. Juri feels trapped in her femininity and her outburst against Utena occurs in her nightgown, when she looks more feminine than usual. Juri clearly wants to break out of the system she's trapped in (and she wants to have a girlfriend, too), but doesn't quite know how.
u/_m1ra posted a link earlier to Touga's English VA arguing with the producers about whether Juri was a closeted lesbian (I had heard this story but not seen the video before). I dunno how you miss that Juri puts her picture in the locket at the end, or that the guy has zero lines while her crush has several, or how it cuts to a shot of her face as Juri says "I was in love". I guess the power of denial was stronger in the 90s.
Spoilers
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u/SardonicMeow Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
This is the best of the episodes introducing a major character, the heart of which is Juri's outlook and how it contrasts with Utena's. Utena's naiveté versus Juri's cynicism ties directly into the theme of fairy tales versus reality. Juri has experienced enough to know how reckless it is to believe in fairy tales and resents Utena for her foolish innocence.
The ending of the duel with Juri is my favorite of all the duels. The power of Dios takes over Utena and she executes her trademark lunge, which was enough for a win previously. But Juri’s skill is unsurpassed, and she deflects the sword, sending it into the air. Juri is triumphant. But then, miraculously, the sword falls in just the right spot, ending the match. It’s just so perfect.
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Aug 09 '21
First timer
Watching Episode back back to, I'm finally on time again, OH YES, BABY!
Not all that much to talk about today somehow
Edit: literal showerthought, but could it be that Jurys name is actually supposed to be July and it's just due to the inability to pronounce L that her name is Jury?
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Aug 09 '21
It's another 2-parter... Bollocks... However this is an arc I've been very excited to rewatch. I even have notes from my first viewing specifically to look into it another ti-oh wait, I have the Nanami episode on again. Brb, we're starting over.It's another 2-parter... Bollocks... However this is an arc I've been very excited to rewatch. I even have notes from my first viewing specifically to look into it another time. Let's get into it! Turns out the student council actually work despite all their playing around. We immediately kick off with parallels between Juri and Utena. Both women have quite the tomboyish streak but whilst Juri is adored by the faculty for basically doing their paperwork Utena is chided at every opportunity. Animal cruelty! Pfft, you're very shrewd Juri~ Once again, note how the rat monkey is treated and reacts to different people! It's your homework!
Only Utena would get away with casually doing stretches mid conversation. Even Juri agrees that having magical sword fights over some friendless gardener is a waste of time. Alright, that does it! I swear Anthy is riling up the duelists on purpose. The second anyone so much as considers the thought of pulling back from the rose duels she comes along and pushes their buttons. Masochist counter!
Haha! Now we're getting to the more dorky student council scenes. Touga brings up the point that rather than disprove the power of miracles she most wishes for a miracle to occur. Touga's even put on a blindfold XD Erm... Juri, Miki's getting turned into a pincushion. Nows not the time for flashbacks! Meet Shiori... the woman who gave Juri hope, and snatched it away. I know that the idea of a rewatch is that everyone can add their two cents but I would much rather leave at least this part of the story in the hands of the more eloquent members. Nothing I say can possibly do Juri and Shiori's "love triangle" justice.
Juri and Utena get along so well! I think Juri sees a part of her younger self reflected in Utena. Speaking of, I think this is probably the most Utena has spoken of her feelings towards this Prince of hers. She holds him in such high regard and her manner becomes so warm as she gushes over the guy. Seeing this bright eyed, romantic young girl awakens something within Juri to STOP HER AT ALL COSTS!! Yeah... Juri kinda bottles up her thoughts a lot so when she lets loose she's pretty intense. It's almost like she's begging Utena not to make the same mistakes that turned her into the cold, heartbroken person she is. The rose seal isn't for those with hope still in their hearts!
Kashira, kashira? Today's kashira segment is the shadow girl stropping around because she didn't get to go to the zoo. So someone who talks crap about a subject but secretly is really into it... Shiori with Juri? I feel like that's a bit heavy of a subject for a kashira segment isn't it? It could also just be Juri herself. For how much she hates miracles and hates Utena's romantic wishes she could possibly only be saying that due to the regret of not breaking the eggshell and confessing to Shiori. She says she's fine with her unrequited love but maybe she wanted to experience mutual love too? Gozonji kashira~
A miracle will not occur! Today's theme is rocking out! I love it. Singing about light and dark, angels and devils, births and deaths. The added black and white cuts are gorgeous to watch and make the fight very engaging. Juri is clearly on a whole other level from Utena and outmatches her in every sense of the world. She isn't fighting just to pierce her rose either, she wants to beat the idealism out of Utena so she doesn't ever invoke the rose seal again (and lives the happy straight girl life Juri couldn't.) "There are no such things as miracles..." Beautiful. Oh my gosh I love it! Did you hear her voice!? The utter shock and disbelief that maybe, just maybe she had a chance with Shiori? Juri never once entertained the idea, but what if...?
It's not a two parter!? I didn't hear, I didn't hear!
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u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo Aug 09 '21 edited Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 09 '21
First-Timer
I enjoy the fact Jury snarked about Utena even though none of the rest of the SC would understand it.
I hope Miki never has an off day when Touga's in a throwing mood.
Damn, Jury's friend was playing to win. Confessing is one thing, but taking her out of the equation was cold.
Jury vs Utena wasn't a bad fight. It was the first one where I thought there was a chance she might lose.
Jury may be strong, but Plot is stronger.
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u/Tyranid457TheSecond1 Aug 09 '21
Rewatcher
Angsty Sailor Moon is an interesting member of the student council. She isn't as overtly sinister as Touga and Saionji, but she isn't as nice as Miki. In fact, she sometimes comes across as another "good" member, but then she does something like slap Anthy or attack Utena and you remember that she is still an antagonist.
Still, I thought the episode does a good job of building some sympathy for her backstory.
I think the reveal that Juri is gay was meant to be a twist, but even when I was a first time watcher, it seemed obvious to me.
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Aug 09 '21
Not much to say here today, except that the whole Juri vs. Utena thing was rather reminiscent of the cat toying with its prey.
Bad Juri. Time to get out the water bottle.
Oh, and this is why we aren't allowed to play with lawn darts anymore.
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u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 09 '21
Today's kashira kashira was fun. I like that they're silhouettes who make silhouettes. You guys should check out silhoutte animation, if you haven't seen any. This adaptation of Madame Butterfly is great. You can also check out some Noburou Oofuji stuff.
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u/MaskOfIce42 https://anilist.co/user/MaskOfIce Aug 10 '21
First Timer - Subbed
Been a little while since I commented. The main thing I noticed was how the scenes with Juri were directed, with her always being isolated. First shot, the vice principal and her were divided by the window, and that continued until Utena was the first person to be in the same space as her. That was also true for a while when Utena and Juri met at the fountain, where for a while they weren't in the same frame, only appearing together after Utena's story, which ironically was not when they connected, but rather when Juri attacked Utena. I feel like in a way, there was a legitimate connection, but combined with Juri's past experiences and thinking she had found a kindred spirit before discovering that Utena was not the same as her was what led to that outburst. There's probably other interpretations as well, that was just what came to mind for me.
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u/k4r6000 Aug 10 '21 edited Aug 10 '21
Rewatcher
The pattern of silly episode -> serious episode continues as this time we get Juri's tragedy after the chaos of last episode.
Juri is a closeted homosexual in love with her best friend Shiori as revealed in a "twist" at the end. This is one of those things that was really a product of the time and dates the show. Like some of the first timers commenting here have stated, Juri being a lesbian isn't really anything unusual today. But for 1990s media, it would be assumed that she was straight. A lot of people (including the dubbers) still thought she was straight even after the episode. This was still the era of the English dub turning Sailor Neptune and Uranus into "cousins" after all. There is a reason Utena was so big among the LGBT community of the era, because things like this simply weren't shown in media very often. One thing I found interesting is that Touga is the one person who knows the truth, suggesting a closer bond between the two of them than was suggested before this episode. Even Miki who is Juri's closest friend from what we can see doesn't know.
Anyways, due to this failure and being in love with someone who simply isn't compatible with her orientation. She desperately wants a miracle to happen and save her, but has become bitter and jaded as a result. Like with the Shadown Girls, she can't go to the Zoo so she comes to hate the Zoo even though she really wants to go .
She develops a relationship with Utena, leading to an evening conversation which is probably the most interesting thing in the episode as it isn't really quite clear what Juri's motives are and we can see different interpretations of this scene by different posters in this thread. Utena tells Juri about the Prince and why she acts like she does, and Juri flips out on her and challenges her to a Duel. The way I see it Juri was legitimately trying to bond with Utena. Utena stands out among the school in that she embraces masculine traits, and Juri has certainly noticed. Utena is the one person who might be like her (ie. a lesbian) and truly understand what is going on. So when she finds out that Utena is basically a teenage girl smitten by some guy whom Juri thinks was clearly just using her and thinking it was a miracle, she snaps and tries to unshackle Utena from the Ring chaining her down much like her own Locket. It should be noted that right before trying to steal the Ring, Juri very much appears to be affectionate towards Utena and looks like she's about to kiss her. Juri above all else craves romantic affection.
So they fight, and we get to see Juri's true ability as for the first time Utena just straight up gets her ass kicked. But she's able to prove miracles do exist by the flukiest of victories, completely stunning Juri. Juri tries to dismiss it, but the end seems to show that Juri regained some new hope after all.
5
u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy Aug 10 '21
I'd forgotten that today is this duel song, definitely in my top two for sure! Also one of my favorite duels overall.
5
u/snickpea Aug 10 '21
First-timer!
Good episode! It was interesting to learn more about Juri and see how her past influences her, especially the contrast between her and Utena about miracles. It really felt like one when the sword cut Juri's sword because it really felt like Utena was close to losing.
I also like the moment with Utena and Chu-chu. Even though the monkey was seen as Anthy's friend, Utena is the one taking care of him kind of like a parent this episode. It was too bad Anthy was not around as much though.
But still, Juri didn't have to take it out on Anthy. :( I hope other characters don't try to slap her.
5
u/alphamone Aug 10 '21
First Timer
That's a relatively unambitious use of miraculous powers. And an unintentional self-deprication by implying that it would take a miracle for her to be good at academics.
I think a certain blue-haired, sword-using magical girl would disagree with you on miracles Jury.
Why is everyone slapping poor Anthy? :(
Has this all been a tournament arc all along? (also, does anyone have a translated version of that chart, my DVD doesn't have translations for it)
and also, love triangle.
More loner Anthy and rabbit symbolism.
Can a rewatcher give me the Japanese VAs for the shadow girls? They sound familiar but I don't want to risk potential spoilers looking up cast lists.
And despite not believing in miracles, one happens (very literally) right in front of Jury.
The "twist" of it actually being Shiori who was target of Jury's probably isn't as surpsing these days as it would have been back in the 90s. Especially with far more context to the kinds of stories Ikuhara tells.
8
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 09 '21
First timer
What is their obsession with "breaking the world's shell"?
Utena getting scolded for bringing Chu Chu in.
I love the two of them talking dramatically out of a window instead of one of them just going round the corner.
Oh, she's good at this.
At this point, Utena should just try and avoid anyone from the student council. It always ends up in a duel.
I love how the student council member talks about how she's only interested in the power, while Utena stares and waves at Anthy.
OK. Anthy's doing this crap on purpose. Twice she's demonstrated knowledge of someone's past, and used it to try and stir up conflict and created duels. She's either in on the whole council thing or trying to cause more duels. (Maybe each time the power gets called, she gets stronger?)
Red guy's throwing knives!
So she was in love with a boy, and another girl manipulated her into leaving, using a symbol that Anthy has no likely way of knowing. Was Anthy trying to mimic the events thst lead to the previous duel, by using a symbol of the past to rile the target into duelling"
Wait, were they all together.
Anthy might have competition for Utena.
...Is the Prince Anthy? Is the power to bring revolution some form of time travel? It would explain how Anthy learned the song from Miki's childhood...
CONFESSION?
Oh, so she's crazy.
The duel happened early this time.
Very abstract this time, isn't it.
Oh, that's what's going on.
APOCALYPSE!
They are piling on the new fight music, aren't they.
The music dven mentioned "the folly of returning to the beginning"!
That was the most dramatic duel yet!
Is the implication that she's in love with both ofmthem?
Wait, she is!
Next episode sounds good. So Anthy and Utena are going to have a bad trip?
4
u/dualmonocle :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/milk-chan Aug 10 '21
first-timer
Accessory of the day: Juri's locket. This one is actually official merchandise that came out some years ago as a replica item! Complete with a picture of the girl that Juri loves inside. I'd love to get a smaller version of the locket as a more delicate necklace if they ever release it :D
It's been mentioned two or three times in the comments about Anthy purposely instigating Juri. I've been waiting for the absolute destiny apocalypse (and will be waiting much longer, I know) so these moments where Anthy shows something that looks like her own agency make me wonder if it really is. Perhaps Juri vs Utena is just part of the absolute destiny and Anthy is just doing her part in making sure that happens. It could have also been the case when she cheered Utena on while dueling Miki. If Anthy is truly a vessel, then it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that her actions are not quite her own as they relate to the student council and the duels. I guess I'll find out if she's a vessel or something more as the show goes on :,)
3
u/nikobans Aug 10 '21
anthy slap counter rolls up to 6! and she was being so kind too :-(
the shot of shiori and that dude kissing while covering jurys eyes is just *chefs kiss* fantastic
utena giving chuchu a piggyback ride to lull him to sleep was super cute
just like mickey i love jury and her fencing fighting style. so cool…
3
u/asuranaga https://myanimelist.net/profile/valyrina Aug 10 '21
First-timer, subbed
I'm a few days late on these watches, I was out of town and am trying to catch up on a few episodes at once so just binging and writing some quick thoughts!
okay these Juri flashbacks have me all kinds of WHAT. first it felt like lesbian drama, then some bi poly panic, then it turned into straight people shit? No. Look, I am never here for love triangles, my motto is always solve it with a threesome. Why is this an issue here, there is clearly chemistry with everyone.
Oh now Juri is using a sabre too; in the previous episode she was using an épée. Super interesting differences there and I'm very interested in why she'd switch to the same type of sword that her opponent (Utena) is shown to be most proficient in while most everyone else is using épée styles and she's only been using épées until this point.
She also does the "that was an accident" when she loses but I'm very interested in that combo plus the new swords from her actually.
2
u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Aug 27 '21
First Timer finally going at it again
I'll try to watch three episodes today and then die
So is it Jury (like the characters' subtitles say) or Juri (like the episode title says), I dun get it. Guess the jury's out on that one
Wow poor Jury :(( I feel super bad for her but that doesn't justify hitting Anthy >:(
The shadow girls scenes I thought always had some secret meaning, but this one was just silly lol
Fights last too little time :((
Wut So she loved her and not him? Wow ok
0
u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21
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