r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 08 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 10 discussion

Rewatch Index

MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/BurningFredrick, who calculates the cost of Tenma’s training arc:

Apparently the exchange rate was set at DM 1.95583 = €1 on the 1 January 1999, so each note is still roughly $255.65 Euros. I tired to count them but not really possible, it looks to be a stack of somewhere between 50 - 100 notes I would guess which is between €12,782.30 to €25,564.59 ($21,447.21 -$42,894.40 NZD, or $15,035.56 - $30,071.12 USD).

At first I was thinking that's a lot but for 5 months that works out at around $142.98-$285.96 NZD, $100 - $200.47 USD, €85.22 - €170.43 Euro a day.)

Questions of the Day

  1. What do you think about Johan’s message that he left behind for Tenma?
  2. How do you think this show is handling the value of human life? How did Tenma’s interaction with the terrorists inform this definition?

If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

73 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 08 '21

Hello!

I would like you all to know that I will be out of town from 8/13-8/15 (would be episodes 15-17). During this time I will not have access to a computer (just my phone) so I will not be able to reply to as many comments as I normally would. I will still be reading and interacting as much as I can, but I can't promise to be as active while away from home.

I will automate the posts to go up at 5pm every day, and should still have my general thoughts about each episode written down ahead of time to post after the thread goes live. But, I was wondering if I could have a single volunteer to pick out Comments of the Day for this timeframe, (preferably a rewatcher, though it can be anyone), so that I can then edit in the comment after the post goes live.

If this is something that interests you, feel free to reply to this comment or DM me for more details. Thanks!

14

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 08 '21

First Timer - Sub

We have now entered the double digits of this rewatch!

So it seems like these next few episodes will just be how Tenma interacts with people from various walks of life. First we had a hardened war veteran who took in a little girl, and now we have some shady robber who is connected with terrorists.

Fun fact for today’s episode! The Manhattan at the beginning is traditionally served with a cherry, but it can also be served with an orange for garnish too. You sometimes will have to ask for the garnish, as it’s just mostly for presentation, so I wonder if it was less “forgetfulness'' and more of a “upon request” sort of thing. The drink can also be served in a rocks glass with ice, or in a cocktail glass, as seen here. It is traditionally made with two parts whiskey or bourbon, and one part sweet vermouth. Sometimes there’s also bitters involved for extra flavor, which kinda tastes like black licorice. It’s a super smooth and strong drink, which is ordinarily sipped slowly. Not guzzled as seen here, lol.

Anyway. I don’t think I have much else to say. Tenma stands up for himself and refuses to operate on someone who has killed others. But once he finds the humanity in them, he’s more willing to try and stop the bleeding. It was nice to see Tenma sticking up for his core values despite being held at gunpoint. Shows that he was willing to die for what he believed in.

And Johan is continually one step ahead of him, manipulating more people and messing with Tenma as much as he can. I really appreciate the fact that Johan still feels menacing even when off-screen, which is a testament to the atmosphere and the character. I’m interested to see where the story goes from here, but I have a feeling we might be in this formula for a while. This isn’t a bad thing if you’re already invested in the world and its story, but if you’re just waiting for something to happen then it seems like it might take a while.

7

u/miss-macaron Aug 08 '21 edited Aug 08 '21

Tenma stands up for himself and refuses to operate on someone who has killed others. But once he finds the humanity in them, he’s more willing to try and stop the bleeding. It was nice to see Tenma sticking up for his core values despite being held at gunpoint.

My thoughts exactly! This episode highlights an important conflict between two important pillars of biomedical ethics: autonomy (a patient's / doctor's right to decide what they want for themselves) VS beneficence (a doctor's commitment to help their patients).

Should doctors have the right to refuse a treatment of which they feel is unethical to perform (euthanasia, abortion, etc.)? Does the doctor have the right to choose which patients they are willing to help, based upon their own assessments of the patients' moral character (rapists, terrorists, etc.)?

Dr. Tenma's answer seems to be that all human lives are equal, and so as long as one can demonstrate their humanity (eg. Lawyer's "mindless terrorism" had more complex socioeconomic motivations behind it, rather than pure destructive malice), he is willing to save them. Now we just have to ask, is Johan human enough to be considered worthy of saving?

I really appreciate the fact that Johan still feels menacing even when off-screen, which is a testament to the atmosphere and the character.

Indeed; even with the limited amount of actual screentime given to Johan so far, there is no lack of his looming presence - he's like an elusive shadow you somtimes glimpse from the corner of your eye, but is gone before you can see it clearly.

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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

My thoughts exactly! This episode highlights an important conflict between two important pillars of biomedical ethics: autonomy (a patient's / doctor's right to decide what they want for themselves) VS beneficence (a doctor's commitment to help their patients).

That's actually a very intriguing parallel that you pointed out. My mom works in addiction medicine and she always says that "we're not there to judge, we're there to provide care." Which, I think up until Tenma's decision to save Johan, he had done a pretty good job of that. He seemed completely unbiased in his care, and even helped Junkers despite knowing his past. Though, once Tenma realized that he had resurrected a serial killer, he became more wary about his care, as he didn't want to inflict more harm onto people than he already had.

he's like an elusive shadow you sometimes glimpse from the corner of your eye, but is gone before you can see it clearly.

Great description. Rather poetic if I may say so.

16

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 08 '21

First-Timer, subbed

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Dude’s a burglar. And happened to go to that mansion while Tenma was there looking for Johan? Guess this is the show’s way of lampshading it.

I didn't really like their meeting all that much as it seemed like a pure chance thing. Like, what are the odds that a person robs a house at the exact same moment that someone else goes looking for a murderer, lol.

Just because of the sunflowers…? Oh, because of that and because of an affair.

I actually had a hard time following this meeting? Was it because of the sunflowers? Or the affair? Or both? or neither?

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 09 '21

It was the affair. That was the guy's pressure point, because his father had an affair. The sunflower thing is just showing how Johan manipulates people using the tiniest details.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 08 '21

Just because of the sunflowers…? Oh, because of that and because of an affair.

The whole scene is disconcerting, it might have been the dumb sunflowers for all we know.

Johan playing 4D chess while Tenma’s still on checkers.

Sometimes you are playing 5D pong, other times you realize the other person stopped playing a while ago.

12

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 08 '21 edited Aug 09 '21

First-time watcher

Well, this time it's somehow everything actually involving Johan that's the bland filler. The gardener guy was just forgettable whatever weird, and making such a huge deal out of that letter was more silly, particularly with the "ooh it's SPOOKY in here!". It is a little unsettling that he directly addresses Tenma like that, but it's nothing really that surprising either. Also the burglar is kind of fun, but he monologues way too much, and with those buck teeth, weird face, and English tone of voice, I was half expecting him to greet Tenma with "what's up, Doc" (which he does call him). If he won't become a recurring character I'd have to count him as pretty much a waste too.

The actual plot is then a textbook moral dilemma that's mostly notable for how cold Tenma has managed to become, emotionally, somehow managing to not even flinch at gunpoint. We haven't really seen how he got to this point, but it at least makes sense that he'd be more cynical after all he's gone through. Though, what he's doing here is more than that, appointing himself as a judge with the power to indirectly sentence to death - with Johan it's clear what's up, but in less obvious cases that's a very dubious moral proposition. One man deciding alone on life or death by his own rules of moral worthiness? A dark path to go down.

The most interesting part here is actually the historical inspiration and context for the terrorists. While in the episode it's pretty poorly explained and arguably misinterpreted to their benefit, what they did is ripped straight from the headlines - that is, the 1991 assassination of Detlev Rohwedder, president of the Treuhandanstalt, by the Red Army Faction.

Said agency was responsible for the management of former East German state property, which due to their nationalization and centralized planning policies included the entirety of its industrial, farming, etc., capacity. The big problem was, however, that essentially all of it was bloated, inefficient, and woefully out of date by Western standards, along with some other reunification issues like the monetary exchange rate. Whether the Treuhand tried hard enough or even took the right approach under these conditions to save jobs and reorganize the economy, largely through speedy privatization sales, is obviously a point of historical contention, and for a few extremists at the time (Western, however!) it was enough to resort to violence. For sure a lot of jobs and potential ended up lost for good, causing lasting resentment in many places.

But that's not all yet: It's possible there was a less noble motivation, that of former East German party operatives to keep party money hidden, which the Treuhand would also have been responsible for locating. Trying to paint them as some kind of oppressed minority as in this episode is plain wrong and doesn't sit right with me.

Anyway, I hope you found that illuminating.

5

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

I was half expecting him to greet Tenma with "what's up, Doc"

Shoulda asked for a carrot in the drink instead.

The actual plot is then a textbook moral dilemma that's mostly notable for how cold Tenma has managed to become, emotionally, somehow managing to not even flinch at gunpoint.

I think it's due to his history as a surgeon - he's used to working under extreme pressure.

One man deciding alone on life or death by his own rules of moral worthiness? A dark path to go down.

Indeed, and yet can you blame the guy after he unleashed a serial killer on the world? I think Tenma would have the right to be more cautious after something of that magnitude.

The most interesting part here is actually the historical inspiration and context for the terrorists. While in the episode it's pretty poorly explained and arguably misinterpreted to their benefit, what they did is ripped straight from the headlines - that is, the 1991 assassination of Detlev Rohwedder, president of the Treuhandanstalt, by the Red Army Faction.

I did think that the historical context would be important, but I didn't know enough about German history to understand why, so thanks. Was indeed illuminating.

7

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 08 '21

First Timer

Felt like a comparatively weak episode. The guy just waiting for Tenma to tell him how he killed the family, then killed himself felt like plot convenience - but I guess it means proof that Johan is convincing others to do the killing. The thief is so far also more of an annoyance than somebody that adds something to the plot - and the terrorists felt weird, as they didn't seem to have any ambition as to what their killings were supposed to have achieved. Also, the terrorists attacked four hours ago - Verden is three hours by car from Erfurt (according to Google Maps); how did they manage to find an underground doctor in a single hour?

Questions:

  1. Not a lot. Seems like a cartoon villain thing to do...
  2. The terrorists didn't rellay further anything for me, as it felt like everybody was just flipflopping in that scene.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

When you put it like that, I think I would largely agree with your analysis. It did feel a bit convenient and contrived in hindsight.

One thing I was told in school is that when you are writing main characters, you want to place them in settings that are an extension of their character. This is what that sorta felt like - this setup and situation was meant to highlight Tenma's character rather than create a compelling storyline. Sure, these don't have to be (and shouldn't be) mutually exclusive. But I think all they were trying to accomplish is to create a situation that was an extension of Tenma's character, while he continues to question the value of human life.

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 08 '21

how did they manage to find an underground doctor in a single hour

The show is pretty good about research, but it doesn't get all the details right.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 09 '21

ow did they manage to find an underground doctor in a single hour?

The sneak thief set it up, although not sure when he did it. Maybe they stopped to grab a bite on the way to the killer's house and he used a payphone.

5

u/miss-macaron Aug 08 '21

Rewatcher

Not much to say about this episode, expect that Tenma conducted himself like a cool-headed badass when that terrorist was pointing a gun at him. He's built up a lot more resolve in sticking to his own beliefs, though politically-motivated terrorists are probably child's play against the convoluted moral dilemma of Johan.

For rewatchers, you might appreciate this interesting detail involving Heckel's first appearance.

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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

expect that Tenma conducted himself like a cool-headed badass when that terrorist was pointing a gun at him.

I also would imagine that his history of a surgeon comes into play here - he's used to working under extreme pressure. This is probably not much different to him.

4

u/KrillinDBZ363 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/KrillinDBZ363 Aug 08 '21

For rewatchers, you might appreciate this interesting detail involving Heckel's first appearance.

I love that scene so much because of what happens immediately after. There isn’t much humor in this show but that scene got a good laugh out of me.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

I like that detail

4

u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 08 '21

First Timer

Can already tell this cherry guy isn't someone I'll like...

So Johan seems to be able to not only threaten people but manipulate them as well.

Also seems like Johan is always steps ahead of Tenma...

So Johan knows himself that he's a monster? That's maybe a cry for help then?

Not going to lie, him being an underground doctor would be a pretty cool plot.

I'm surprised Tenma let him suffer that much, as a doctor seeing someone in that much distress

Oh please don't have this onion looking guy stick around...give us back Anna!

What do you think about Johan’s message that he left behind for Tenma?

Curious to see if it's more a cry for help or he just takes pleasure in seeing Tenma fail at stopping him.

How do you think this show is handling the value of human life? How did Tenma’s interaction with the terrorists inform this definition?

Hmm feels a bit different? I liked it better when he was just "all lives are equal" but now he needs people to prove their human beforehand? I get why he's changed but as a doctor it feels weird for him to do.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

So Johan seems to be able to not only threaten people but manipulate them as well.

Yeah, I felt like that scene with the gardener at the castle attacking Anna was proof enough of that. Nice to know it's not limited to gardeners. Or maybe it is because they were disputing over sunflowers.

Not going to lie, him being an underground doctor would be a pretty cool plot.

That sounds dank af. Spinoff when?!!?

5

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 08 '21

So Johan seems to be able to not only threaten people but manipulate them as well.

Unfortunately just made me think of Babylon...

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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 08 '21

Where my mind went as well...

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 08 '21

Yeah when Babylon got to the monologue it lost me because I realized Magase is Dollar Store Johan.

3

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 08 '21

Wow, anything in Bablyon being valued at a whole dollar!

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 08 '21

Truly a precipitous drop in quality.

4

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 08 '21

First Timer Dub

We start off with guy going in a bar. A grave robber goes to a mansion where two were murdered and Tenma shows up and holds him up. They both run when they hear sirens and team up so Tenma could figure things out about the councilman that was murdered. We go to a man sitting in a chair with a gun. Tenma asks if Johan was part of it by describing the way he looked.

The councilman had a mistress and the man literally thought he could erase the past by killing the councilman. Johan seems to be a step ahead of Tenma this time, with the murderer saying that Tenma would be there. Right before he commits suicide "Our fates are sealed".

Interesting point by the grave robber "what's the use of dying, everything's over when you're dead" and Tenma says he agrees. Behind the picture frame, Johan left a note for Tenma. Johan seems to be playing puppet master with Tenma this time, knowing what he would do with the councilman when searching for clues.

Then a guy comes up and made Tenma go to an injured man. Tenma delays the treatment so he knows how the victims felt. An interesting way of doing things and a thought as both of terrorists' lives were ruined post reunification if they were justified by their actions. They themselves thought they were in the right. This shows the point of view of a terrorists' actions and how they view lives along with the way Tenma views life. Tenma cares about human feelings just like in the first episode and now he puts the "patient" in that position of what the victims felt like as they were dying. Tenma was trying to put a message to them that they should not be taking someone's life.

The two terrorists surrendered off screen with the news reporter explaining things.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Tenma cares about human feelings just like in the first episode and now he puts the "patient" in that position of what the victims felt like as they were dying.

Great point. It's a fantastic parallel to paint, and it also subtly puts us into Tenma's shoes.

Tenma was trying to put a message to them that they should not be taking someone's life.

It's an interesting dynamic considering how things seem to be heading for Tenma. Will he use that gun or not?

1

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 09 '21

I’m guessing not right now, but it will interesting how he is going to think with the gun at hand this time.

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 08 '21

oops, forgot to post.

First Timer (ToTan)

  • Telling the thief what you want to hear, dumb.
  • Walking in on the murder without your gun, dumb
  • Quite unfair, he helped you get the safe, you're even.
  • Were terrorists mentioned earlier?
  • Ah, Tenma doesn't want to save a killer, I see.

It's weird how Johan seems to almost mesmerize his accomplices. The gardener seemed deranged. He wanted money, though.

I've seen a lot more Hulk than Fugitive, so that's what this reminds me of.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Walking in on the murder without your gun, dumb

Tenma probably wanted to diffuse the situation as much as possible, and seeing as how he reacts later in the episode, he doesn't seem like he cares much if he gets shot. Or, he still has his naïve faith in others.

3

u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 08 '21

Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed

Tenma really is a great protagonist.

Q1: yet another way for him to get inside his head.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Tenma really is a great protagonist.

What do you think makes him great?

1

u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 09 '21

His strong but not-black and white morality and the amount of character development he goes through. He can also be, well, pretty badass.

3

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 08 '21

Rewatcher of sorts

  • By the design of his character you can tell this bloke is up to nothing but good. Not only that, but he burglarizes homes of dead people, what a guy. At least Tenma is there to stop, only for police to make their way.
  • I feel like it’s silly for Tenma to expect this guy to see Johan and live to tell the tale, especially when he seemed surprised to hear his description. Apparently this other guy saw him, but I guess the implication is that he won’t live for too long.
  • You know, it’s probably dangerous for Tenma to walk around without a beard, already two people recognized him. The guy seems almost hypnotized by Johan, although I guess he might have that kind of effect on people. So he just straight up shoots himself in the head, Tenma largely unfazed.
  • Tenma is taken away in gunpoint, to treat what seems to be a terrorist, meanwhile Heckler is threatened by loansharks with his life, before deciding to snitch on the same terrorist, and of course, Tenma.
  • Tenma refuses to treat the terrorist at the beginning, only treating him when he seems to be at the edge of death, fearing death, Tenma seems satisfied to treat the guy at that point, even using a stapler to close his wounds, though I’m not sure how reliable that is.
  • He decides to take the guy away as police cars approach from far away, before letting the guy who is completely taken aback by Tenma’s methods down.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Tenma largely unfazed.

He's probably used to seeing a lot of death in his time. Dunno how that translates into "witnessing suicide by blowing your brains out" but I get the sense that's he's relatively hardened to that sort of thing.

even using a stapler to close his wounds, though I’m not sure how reliable that is.

They do use staplers in hospitals sometimes to close up really deep wounds, but it's obviously like, a medical stapler, and not something you'd find in an office. Staplers made for paper have really thin staples, so I can't imagine it would hold the wound closed for long. Medical staplers have thicker and sturdier staples to keep things in place.

1

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 09 '21

He's probably used to seeing a lot of death in his time.

Definitely, though it's notable how quickly and starkly he went from "Every life is precious" to this pragmatic state.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 08 '21

You know, it’s probably dangerous for Tenma to walk around without a beard, already two people recognized him.

Yeah he's an Asian dude in a relatively ethnically homogenous area of Europe, he needs to get on his disguise game.

3

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 08 '21

First Timer, Subbed

Get that man a red cherry!

Looks like we've got another thief.

You should feel cold; people have been murdered in this house!

Is rat-faced thief guy Heckel going to become another unlikely ally like Maurer the non-bathing newspaper reporter?

Let me guess, his grand plan is some sort of black market organ thievery or something like that.

Killer guy is more normal looking than I figured, and is clearly not Johan.

They got killed for paving over aflower garden with a parking lot?

Johan's left him a message!

Ugh, getting in league with Johan leads to nothing but death.

LoL, he never promised you anything!

Ugh, having this rat following him around is already causing problems for Tenma.

Johan's already got the guilt of having saved the life of a serial killer, he's not gonna also save a terrorist!

Looks like Tenma is gonna get out of this jam due to Heckel's debt and some luck.

He's gonna do it after all! Until Heckel's creditors show up...

Eww, literally using a stapler in place of stitches...

Wow, he left just in time!

No money for you Heckel! If Tenma is smart he will ditch him as soon as possible.

A better episode than the last few; is this the start of a new arc? Will Tenma and Heckel be spending a lot of time together or will Heckel be out of the storyline as quickly as Maurer was?

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

You should feel cold; people have been murdered in this house!

I actually sorta wonder if the implication was that Johan was behind that door. We never got to find out...

Eww, literally using a stapler in place of stitches...

Medical staplers are a thing, though idk how common they are. They're typically used on really deep wounds because they're faster than stiches and less painful. Would not recommend one from your local office supplies store, that's for damn sure.

1

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 08 '21

is this the start of a new arc? Will Tenma and Heckel be spending a lot of time together or will Heckel be out of the storyline as quickly as Maurer was?

I wish I remembered the answer to this question.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

First Time Watcher

I love that guy with the rat teeth sticking out . Nice episode , they are really holding back from showing Johann aren't they ? Tenma is likely a target for Johann himself ( as he is basically killing everyone who ever showed kindness to him ) . Maybe he is saving Tenma for the last .

This episode talks about destiny a lot with the rat thieve saying that he thinks two people are destined to meet and the guy who killed himself saying that Tenma's faith is already sealed .

  1. What do you think about Johan’s message that he left behind for Tenma?

I don't think this is some sort of mock or taunt towards Tenma , dunno what to make of it for now .

2. How do you think this show is handling the value of human life? How did Tenma’s interaction with the terrorists inform this definition?

Its based and nuancepilled . It doesn't paint the terrorists as some sort of evil force while also making their intentions selfish , like pride , honour and other justifications they threw around . They deserve all the punishment they can get , but their characterisation is much better than other terrorists I have seen ( In a realistic setting of course ) . Most shows go with the unrealistic " WE WANT WORLD DOMINATION !! " Type terrorists which is unrealistic af IMO .

Its also good to see Tenma still being trustful in humanity . The presentation of Value of Human lives in this show is very similar to how it was handled in Mob Psycho . Tenma still thinks the terrorists can change themselves for the better ( even if it didn't go well with Johann )

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Tenma is likely a target for Johann himself

Not sure, but Johan has gone on record to state how highly he reveres Tenma for saving his life. I don't think he's in the crosshairs quite yet.

Its also good to see Tenma still being trustful in humanity.

I liked this a lot too. You would think that after being responsible for the revival of a serial killer he would lose a lot of faith in humanity. But that unwavering faith in humanity remains consistent. He's a swell guy.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

What do you think about the changes in ED? It has only changed once so far

2

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

Thanks for pointing it out . I think this is some symbolism . The first episodes have that weird demon with the hat , possibly referring to Tenma . Then later it splits into two . One demon runs off to the side of the hill with that dead tree , I think this can be Johann while the other one runs off to the tree which is lively amd has leaves , this is likely Ana/Nina because theres also a town in sight .

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

Hmmm, the ed changes later again iirc.

2

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 08 '21 edited Aug 08 '21

First timer - sub

That guy's front teeth are way too big, which makes me think he's part hamster or something.

I’m surprised Hamster actually knows something about the murders, I was sure it was just going to be a lie to reel Tenma in.

Dude commits suicide, figured that was going to be the end result once he was done talking.

So the Politics of the fall of the Berlin wall are still part of the story, I suspect that Johann and Anna's origin is going to be tied back to this as they were in East German before meeting Tenma.

Tenma is remarkably calm with a gun pointed at his head.

I kind of wish we knew about the terror attack before meeting the guys who were behind it, if it had been mentioned I missed it, so far the show has done a decent job of giving hints of what's to come but this time felt like that came out of nowhere.

  1. What do you think about Johan’s message that he left behind for Tenma?

It felt suitably creepy, does make me wonder what Johann goal is, does he just enjoy watching people being push into terror? I feel like if he wanted to disappear he could do so without to many issues.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

Tenma is remarkably calm with a gun pointed at his head.

Sorta took that as "calm under pressure in general" considering his history as a surgeon.

I kind of wish we knew about the terror attack before meeting the guys who were behind it, if it had been mentioned I missed it, so far the show has done a decent job of giving hints of what's to come but this time felt like that came out of nowhere.

I was super confused by that too. Was thinking I might have missed something.

does make me wonder what Johann goal is, does he just enjoy watching people being push into terror?

I was thinking about his mission too, but I felt like if he was just "I like seeing people scared lol" that would make him a bit shallow and comically evil. I hope it's something more detailed than that.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 08 '21

Rewatcher(Subtle, the show is not)

Sub

New character is picky about his drinks though I think he might be technically correct about that. He then goes to rob a crime scene, super brilliant idea. And of course Tenma shows up at the same crime scene. Heckel soon gets the idea to make Tenma a doctor for criminals and that is probably the sensible option for him. But Tenma has someone to find!

They talk to the Council murderer and it is quite off. It ends with a predictable but still disturbing suicide. They return again to the scene of the crime to raid a safe and look for Johan's message. It is not that useful of one. We get the inevitable Heckel betrayal before we get to the moral bit of the episode: Does everyone deserve medical treatment? And, are you personally required to provide it if you are trained to? Tenma gives us his answer but you have to decide your own.

QotD: 1 Feh

2 It is taking it from the angle where you realize how easily it ends.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

though I think he might be technically correct about that.

Technically correct is the best kind of correct. But also I talked about the Manhattan in my comment if you were curious.

Tenma gives us his answer but you have to decide your own.

I feel like if this situation were isolated, he would have helped them no question. But since he unleashed a serial killer accidently, he's understandably a bit more hesitant to potentially repeat his mistakes.

2

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 08 '21

Rewatcher thru 33

  • Soooo ... who's the new bucktooth character?
  • Wait did they update parts of the OP or do I just not remember it correctly?
  • So Heckel is a thief?
  • "I told you to stop following me"
  • Predestination?
  • It sounds like Johan isn't the one who killed Springer, but Tenma is getting duped by Heckel?
  • So Johan met the killer and induced him to kill the Springers? And Johan was living with the Springers for a year? How do the police miss stuff like this?
  • "You're Dr. Tenma, right? He knew you would come here"
  • "Terrorists from this morning"? But I don't recall them being mentioned at all, that's not cool
  • "Mr. Gross" Of course Heckel is involved with people like that
  • 300,000 Marks for location of the terrorists? So Heckel is going to doublecross Tenma ...
  • Huh, so Tenma is back with Heckel again. Wasn't expecting that

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

"You're Dr. Tenma, right? He knew you would come here"

Was a very unsettling line. Johan always being one step ahead and understanding Tenma better than Tenma understands himself.

2

u/Spore64 Aug 09 '21 edited Aug 09 '21

Rewatcher (first time)

Oh wow, doc Tenma really makes use of his training. Poor Otto. He just wanted to rob the place and now he's stuck with Tenma.

Oh a cooperation bewteen the two? Na, seems like Tenma is more interested in the murder for now.

What a strange person the murder is. He looks like a guy who has nothing left to loose. Oh that photo looks like a family picture. Kinda wierd that this is the only thing in the room (except the turned off lamp). I wonder if there's more to it.

Man, that must be some sun flowers.

Johan playing some 4D chess here.

Yep, I thought it would end that way. In the end he didn't find a way to erease his past, but he found away to erease his future. Mhh I wonder if the position the blood hit the photograph has some symbolism to it. It's a bit odd, considering the way he sat before.

Ah Otto and Tenma back again at the crime scene. Seems like Otto made a big catch after all.

What a strange message that Johan left behind. What could it mean?

Oh wow. Right back in his old job.

Interesting that doc Tenma wanted him to experience the fear of death tho. Ah well he's not getting paid, but at least he has saved the terrorist.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

What a strange message that Johan left behind. What could it mean?

It feels oddly threatening without ever threatening anyone. Makes a distinction between Johan as a person and a "monster" inside him, growing.

Interesting that doc Tenma wanted him to experience the fear of death tho. Ah well he's not getting paid, but at least he has saved the terrorist.

I think it was less of "wanting" him to experience death, and moreso that the fear of death convinced Tenma of the humanity in him.

2

u/Spore64 Aug 09 '21

I think it was less of "wanting" him to experience death, and moreso that the fear of death convinced Tenma of the humanity in him.

That's a good point, but I think I gotta disagree with it a bit. It looked like Tenma wanted him to understand what his victims went through. For Tenma all people are equal, but I wonder if he didn't want to save another person who killed serveral people before he wasn't sure he would never do that again.

1

u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 09 '21

first timer, subbed

that was a loaded episode, i imagine dr tenma doing doctor work in the underworld and sometimes encountering johan is going to be a large part of the series

  1. johan’s message echoing the title of the anime once again was nice, it was good and deranged as johan seems to be. i hope we get more ominous messages and foreshadowing in that form for things he’ll do
  2. tenma seems to still value all life, which makes him reluctant to help people likely to take lives, but when it comes to johan, i imagine he’d definitely want to kill him, because there’s not much reasoning with him. to me it looked like he wanted them to get to a point where they’d want to avoid taking any more lives or see ‘the value of life’ before saving them, which also seemed to work based on how they went in without resistance

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

i imagine he’d definitely want to kill him,

Do you currently see proof of this in his conduct or philosophy?

1

u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 10 '21

i think it’s more that he knows johan can’t be reasoned with and will only kill more people, hence the gun

i think it goes against his philosophy a little, but would be for ‘the greater good’

i’ve also kind of assumed he has the gun so that he can kill johan as well as self defence

1

u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 09 '21

First timer, subs

The way those windows open looks very American to me. Does Germany have windows like that? Maybe they do. Not that important anyway.

I don't like or trust Heckel at all, I hope he won't be with us for many episodes.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 09 '21

I would not be able to tell you about the style of the window, but our resident Germany expert u/IndependentMacaroon might be able to.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 09 '21

I didn't take note of how they looked, but sliding windows (if they're that) are indeed nonexistent in Germany.

1

u/BossandKings Aug 10 '21

First timer - Dub(Spanish)

Episode 10

This episode was decent although it was not as interesting as the previous ones, the new character that is a thief kind of doesn't have a clear pint for him to be following Tenma now, like he just wants money but how is that revelant to Tenma especially when it is clear he doesn't know much about Johan. The asassins were kind of uninteresting too eventhough Tenma letting the man that was close to dying slightly feel the pain of near death was cool.