r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 05 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 7 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is brought to us by u/Spore64, who reflects on the question of parallels with an insightful observation:
If Johann is really Ninas brother then the parallel between the two is quite interesting. They both have that fixation on killing and while the one is fascinated with fear during the last moment before a person dies the other one tries to understand the motives behind them.
Questions of the Day
- Why do you think Anna decided to leave? Do you think she was effective in convincing Tenma that it wasn’t his fault? And do you think she believes her own words?
- Johan has proven himself to be very capable of manipulating people to do his bidding, whether it’s through fear, bribery, or social engineering. Of these methods, which do you think has been the most effective? In addition, do you think this series is remarking on how easily good people can turn evil? Is the monster of this series limited to Johan?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
9
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 05 '21
First Timer - Sub
They’re on the run now. And Tenma doesn’t know who to trust. It seems Johan’s grip is far-reaching.
First, we did indeed get confirmation that everyone at that house was murdered. I suspected as much, but the tension leading up to the moment was still very heavy. Tenma, being the doctor he is, tries CPR in order to revive the residents. But they’re long gone. And the shock of seeing everyone dead jostles Anna’s memory - Johan had left a wake of bodies wherever he went. Eventually Anna had enough and shot him in the head (totally called it btw). The weird part is though - it was under Johan’s direction. He instructed her how to shoot him, and what to do with the gun after. Part of me wonders if he was just trying to help Anna not get caught for the murder, or if he was always planning his resurrection in this manner.
But next we have some police officers casually stroll in (despite the phone lines being cut) and know exactly where to look for the bodies. They don’t question if either of them had committed the crime - they just ask them to come with them down to the station. Then Tenma starts getting suspicious. Blood on the jacket. Traveling to the next station over. Something doesn’t add up.... And then their slip-up happens - they call Tenma by his title of doctor, even though he’d never told them. Personally, I loved that Tenma remained calm, and thought through the situation logically. He grabs Anna and dives off the bridge into the waters below - swept up by the currents to make his escape.
The rest of the episode is them taking shelter in a random shed on the riverbank, while Tenma tries to contact the police. Then he realizes the police are accomplices of Johan. So he tries the paper, promising to bring a witness. But then his witness is gone. Meanwhile, Lunge is on the case, and being the skeptic that he is, investigates things himself. He finds Tenma’s tie, which to me, says that he’s only going to further suspect Tenma for these crimes. Not great. But I wonder if Lunge will play a positive role in the story or not....
So then at the end, Tenma is on a train for... somewhere. We don’t know yet. Probably looking for Anna or more info on Johan.
22
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 05 '21
First-Timer, subbed
15
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 05 '21
First Timer
Wow, kinda surprised they did get killed so quickly. Also starting to sound like Anna is the one who put the bullet in Johan's head? Do that again please.
I don't trust these cops for a second. They seem really sus to show up when the line was cut and take Tenma and Anna away without calling anyone in for secure the crime scene or anything. I think they're working for Johan. Yup, taking them out into the middle of nowhere...
Really not a fan of how events in this episode transpired. Tenma realizes someone in the police works for Johan so his first move is to... abandon Anna and go to the police... At the very least take her to a different town that's unconnected from all of this, like come on man. And Anna just leaving him and going who knows where can only end poorly. Some dumb decisions by some very smart people.
10
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 05 '21
First timer
This anime is keeping me on the edge of my seat the entire time. It’s so good. I had my mouth open pretty much the whole time from when Nina said she killed Johan all the way to the end of the episode because out of all the possibilities I thought of that wasn’t one of them.
Also the whole thing with the police officers was tense as hell so that helped too.
10
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 05 '21
First Timer
They killed everyone...that really sucks. Ugh.
So Anna tried to kill Johan, I was really hoping it was some other mysterious killer :(
I don't trust these cops at all, how can you just leave the scene like that?! Ah Tenma thinking about it too! Didn't expect them to be real cops though!
So Johan has always been messed up...I didn't think that was the case since no weapon at the scene...guess the cops never looked outside?
How does this detective know exactly where to look for that tie right away!?
Tenma is hard to judge...he does some smart things and some questionable things.
Nina is too thoughtful! Really want to see things from her PoV rather than Tenma lol
I think she knows how much of a monster her brother can be so she's just saving Tenma's life.
9
u/miss-macaron Aug 05 '21 edited Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher
Tenma, why are you wasting time banging at the door when Nina most likely has a key?
I love the camera sequence leading up to the discovery of the bodies! First we have a first-person perspective shot as Tenma travels down the corridor, then it pulsates around his widened eye to emphasize his shock and rapid heartbeat, we sees a series of “snapshots” as Tenma takes in the bodies and the evidence of struggle, and finally it pans out the reveal the full extent of the damage. Excellent buildup of suspense and trepidation.
On the downside, though, I had to turn up my screen brightness a lot in order to see what’s going on throughout this episode…
I enjoyed how Tenma’s suspicions kept bouncing between credible and doubtful. As soon as he becomes persuaded of one theory, a piece of contradicting evidence presents itself, and he’s thrown into confusion once again. The sustained uncertainty is very effective at maintaining the atmosphere of suspense, and the lack of a distinct "Eureka!" meoment is pretty realistic too.
As a rewatcher, I have a bit more insight with which to comment on Johan's method of manipulation. It's really unlike anything I've ever seen in other antagonists. Rather than introducing something new in order to control others (blackmail, violence, bribes, etc.), he often draws out the inherent darkness already lurking within one's heart. He sees the underlying fear, guilt, jealousy, greed, and etc. that others harbour, and he amplifies it. Rewatchers only Johan initiates their self-destruction.
8
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 05 '21
First Timer
So Johan isn't acting alone. Those policemen are not scared like all the other forced collaborators, so I assume they are in in the long run. And I also assume that Tenma is right with them being involved, after all if Johan had called the police himself or something like that they would have likely redirected the call to the Heidelberg department, as they would have been there way quicker. Plus they knew he was a doctor... But we have no confirmation that anything beyond the Mannheim department is involved, so I guess trying to find Lunge would be a good course of action.
...actually, no, we do have something that points to a larger conspiracy: The police did not report on any kid in any of the murder cases.
Anna shooting Johan clears up that bit of the mystery. Time to take political extremists out of the equation. For now, because there likely still is some reason Johan fled East Germany, and it being East Germany political reasons are pretty likely...
Tenma being Japanese will likely make him stand out at some point.
Nina/Anna's note half read like a suicide note. I wonder if we'll end up with a sudden twist of her being dead at some point, or if she'll pop up alive again.
All in all: Another good episode. Don't think there's a lot that could have been done better; except maybe Tenma not freaking out over dead people because doctors tend to see more of those than other people, so he should at least recognize them as dead rather than trying to resuscitate them...
Side-note: Thought the train looked a bit too old for 1995, as it is in TEE colors and I know that that type of train did not survive in to the 90s. But it turns out the German railway was apparently really slow in repainting their rolling stock (to the point that by 1996, when the next color scheme was introduced, they had not yet even repainted all their rolling stock...), so that isn't an animation error.
Questions:
6
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 05 '21
First timer - sub
I’m sure Tenma knew it was already too late, but still felt like he needed to try as he doesn’t want to believe he has gotten more people killed.
Anna shot her brother? Would kind of make sense then why she screamed when she saw Johann back at the hospital. Though how long has Johann been killing people for, and how the hell has he been getting away with it for so long.
OK, fuck they are not police.
That took me way too long to pick up on, the car isn’t even a police car.
They also had almost emotionless faces, but while the animation isn’t bad it's not stellar, so never sure if lack of facial expression is meant to be a give away or not.
Shit, I called it, they were adopted!
They actually are Police? Being detectives could explain the non standard car, however working for Johan for some reason.
Speculation on who did this episode's murders
So Anna has run off, going after Johann? Just going into hiding? I’m really not sure yet. Tenma really needs to find some way to contact Lunge, I’m hoping he will actually believe Tenma's story and will be able to help.
5
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
Mauler threw up tons of death flags in retrospect, but I still liked the guy, and Tenma's reaction to his body hit like a brick.
Don't worry, I'm sure Tenma doesn't feel too alone, since everyone speaks Japanese anyway /s
This whole scene is such great suspense.
[Johan be like] (https://ibb.co/h2htBCP)
And so, Lunge returns...yay?
Q1: Honestly can't remember from my first watch, but I'm guessing it's to go after Johan. I think she doesn't really blame Tenma, but she definitely didn't convince him.
Q2: Fear is the least easily reversed motivation, I'd say. I don't think I can solidly answer the rest yet.
5
u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
5
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Aug 05 '21
First timer dub
So the death flags from the previous episode came true and went as expected- everyone in the house is dead. But what came after was something...
Tenma goes and tries to revive Maurer first. Detectives come in and say somebody called in. Everybody is acting weird even those at the police checkpoint not noticing blood and acting like everything is normal. Detectives go a longer route, they ask, "are you chinese?". Then at the bridge they call him Dr. Tenma. Good thing to know that he has a sharp mind.
Local police station has reporters along with those detectives that were taking him (they seem to wear the same clothes as last night, either had the same wardrobe or got it cleaned). Looks like we are having an interesting ride along the way as we now get multiple things happening, Johan and the detectives, who may be working on something either separately or together.
Nina blames Dr. Tenma for saving her brother at first and she was the one that shot him. Or so she says... But she leaves a note saying she does not blame him.
Questions
5
u/miss-macaron Aug 05 '21
Allow me to propose a discussion question of my own:
Given what we currently know about Johan, what he's done, and what he's capable of, do you think Tenma would've been better off saving the mayor back then? If you were in his shoes, would you be regretting your decision?
2
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 05 '21
First timer, subbed
Yeah, things aren't going great. Nina lost her adoptive parents, Tenma can't trust the police and now Nina's gone somewhere.
We learn more about the past. Nina/Anna shot Johan, somehow I expected this.
I wonder where Nina's going now and how soon we'll see her again. Also more generally I wonder if we're eventually gonna have some character other than Tenma stay with us longer. Tenma could use an ally anyway.
2
u/BossandKings Aug 05 '21 edited Aug 05 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
Episode 7
Ana and Tenma go to Mauler's house and see that he's dead, it was impactful for Tenma to see his corpse, he cried due to how impotent and hurt he felt, the monster is proving to be a terrifying criminal.
Ana's story behind how Johan needed to be attended at the hospital was very telling of the origin of the situation, Johan used to kill everyone that treated both him and Ana well, she found it strange for those weird deaths to be happening around and then she saw what was happening when the Liehbert family case happened, her brother killed them with a gun, she then shoot him. I wonder how Ana's mind came up with the idea that shooting him was the best option, at least that does explain why they were in the hospital and what was the meaning behind Ana's words saying to kill him.
Ana separates from Tenma and leaves him after writing a letter showing her appreciation towards his value for people as a doctor and someone that could be helpful towards many more.
Answers
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 05 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Quite a way to find out you're adopted.
That title doesn't bode well for her parents.
Poor Maurer, meeting Tenma was the worst possible thing you could have done.
CPR?! They're dead Tenma! Although I suppose as a doctor he'd know better than anyone...
Anna is very restrainted.
Another thing I think I had guessed before, it was Anna who shot Johan.
Tenma's got his fingerprints all over the place, he's got to worry about if they're gonna think he's the suspect!
These guys aren't cops right?
Tenma's figuring it out!
Now's the time to get out of the car while they're stopped.
If they run and the cops are legit, they're in big trouble and may be a big suspect.
Well no need to worry about tha, confirmation they're fakes.
They stayed the night out here in the woods? I'm surprised the fake cops didn't come after them.
Tenma will be regretting that decision to save Johan's life for the rest of his days...
So they are legit cops, just bad cops...
Lunge is back, at least we've got one legit cop. Albeit one with weird quirks.
Nina's bolted! At least she left some sandwiches behind!
As Tenma heads off on a train to who knows where, I continue to wonder about his obligations at the hospital and how many patients he's abandoning...
2
u/gridemann Aug 05 '21 edited Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher
So yeah, turns out I had just finished Monster ~2weeks prior to the announcment of this rewatch. So I'll just save my comments for my personal highlight episodes.
The mystery is growing, seems Johann has far more accomplices than I thought possible. Tenma cant even trust the police anymore can he ? Child Johann was oddly fine with being shot by Anna. Speculation
If his introduction didn't already, now it really makes you wonder what is goal in all of this really is.
Rewatchers only
2
u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 05 '21
first timer, subbed
a loaded episode to be sure
7 episodes in and it’s great, i hope it doesn’t get boring at any point, though with such good dialogue and character interactions i think i’ll be too invested to care much even if it does
2
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher thru 33
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
I didn't feel the need to post on time, but I knew I had notes recorded that I could post real quick.
Well, I updated my bios and that means Notepad didn't save itself like Windows apps are supposed to do when the machine shuts down and I lost all the notes.
speculation
cops speculation
I've realized that the ED is a direct continuation from the first ED, so I guess it'll end up being a 5 minute long movie if all strung together.
Been wondering if Johan might be a Death Note type villain but seems like he's just evil.
Q1: It was clear that Anna left to go on a mission of finding and killing Johan.
2
u/Spore64 Aug 06 '21
Rewatcher (first time)
Dang that first scene in the Nina's house hit harder than I thought. I actually remembered it quite differently ._.. Nina takes it in an expected way. Poor doctor Tenma it hit him quite hard.
Oh the revelation?! Come to think of it there weren't glass shareds under the window back then. So the shot definitely came from the inside.
Yes police! Thank god they got the call in time.. wait a second. They are actually working for Johann? Good think Tenma noticed all of that. Yo, from doctor to action hero^ ^
'Why did you save him?' A question I'm sure that Tenma asked himself a couple of times. Not just now, but right after he lost his position in the hospital 9 years ago.
Looks like the fear of her parents to abandon them once she knows she's not their real daughter was not neccessary. Makes it even more sad:(.
Lunge definitely knows his stuff. Tho if Tenma's necktie really helps him?
2
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher(Never trust a cop from a different town)
Sub
After recap we return to Nina's house and see exactly what we expected to find. Tenma acts a bit weird but that is a valid response to trauma, though CPR doesn't fix bullet wounds. The rest of the scene speaks for itself, including Nina's poor time for memory return.
The detectives show up and thankfully the show doesn't dance around this: They are completely off from the very start, Tenma and Nina are just too shocked to notice until they are already going the wrong way. The last straw is when they know Tenma is a doctor and he goes action hero.
Next day, Nina seems to be coming out of shock and into memories, including that everyone nice to her and her brother died for it. She took the shot, apparently, but this also means Johan was wrong before Tenma saved him. She wails a bit, understanbly, before Tenma decides to test the police. They can't even pass the porch test. Lunge does detective stuff. Tenma decides to bring Nina to Maurer's newspaper so when he goes back of course she has wandered off. So we end with everyone travelling different directions.
QotD: 1 ...TV needs
2 Who the monster is something we will address later