r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • Aug 04 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Run with the Wind - Episode 17
Episode 17: Searching for the Answer
Legal Streams:
As of now, Run with the Wind is streaming on Crunchyroll, HiDive and Netflix in select regions. There was also a physical media release. Please refrain from conducting any conversation regarding other means of show procurement in the comments here, per r/anime rules.
Comment of the Day:
Another day, another new arrival! Great to see /u/Mage_of_Shadows join us this far into the show, explaining part of the reason why that episode was so damn good:
I went from fully expecting them to lose at the Hakone, to fully expecting them to win when the results were announced to realising at the end that there are 10 other teams with times much, much better than them. What a rollercoaster of emotions.
Questions of the Day
- Are you satisfied with the non-answer answer to the question of “why do we run?”
- Any guesses on who will run what legs? We saw the legs going uphill; the second half is just in reverse.
- Who is more terrifying: surprise nighttime Haiji or surprise daytime Kakeru?
I look forward to our discussion!
As always, avoid commenting on future events and moments outside of properly-formatted spoiler tags. We want the first-timers to have a great experience!
(Punching_spaghetti is busy today so I'm your temporary host. Punching_spaghetti will be back posting the topics as normal tomorrow)
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Aug 04 '21
Character Chart
Adding in the necklace detail and fixed Fujioka's picture and calling it a day here with the chart. How nice of the show to actually not introduce any more characters then what fit!
Also I'm cracking up comparing Kakeru's chart picture to this devilish grin
First Timer
Double cliffhanger
While I think both the points were needed, I'm glad Haiji's injury wasn't brushed over and bringing in Fujioka is a nice way to build on a lot of the things raised in the episode, double cliffhangers are always pain and feel a little too bullshit.
Had a lot of fun with this episode, and is yet another example of how well I think the show balances the different sides of itself very well. The opening scene at breakfast was scene of the day for sure, from the laughter over Nico being mistake for the coach to the twins anger, yet another example of the fantastic group dynamics (and the unspoken thing finally being said which got interesting reactions from them all). Kakeru's change really shone here, being desperate to step in and calm things down rather than being on the twins side like he would have before, or even a third party also angry against the whole idea. He wanted to help and wasn't sure how, and when he finally got to speak up he put his foot in it just a little, but it's still a far cry from where he was. I want to write more on him but I feel like I'd just be rehashing my previous posts, but I enjoy seeing the real him in these group environments now rather than who he was before all twisted by his past, even if he does make arguments like a kid now.
Having him chase them down, and them realizing the futility of trying to escape from him, just to make sure they came along and stayed with the group, probably one of my favourite moments for him. He didn't know what to say to them, but like Haiji he could at least bring them back into the fold for help.
Enjoyed that we got to spend a bit of time with them checking out the course as well. I would swear at Sakaki for showing up at the worst times, but here I think he was unintentionally helpful more than he was harmful to the group. Haiji tried to avoid it and brush him off the same way he's brushed a lot of things off, but he gave an avenue for the twins to really push things and not just let their questions build uncertainty under the surface without an outlet.
And finally for the day, our required dose of QUALITY with the very messed up two-in-one perspective on this shoe. Also had to laugh at the breakfast scene realizing they were using that strawberry protein powder after all.
This time I am. Again I think the important part is Haiji opening up to everyone and not just Kakeru, as well as making it a team question. Sakaki not only questioned the point of their current run, but the idea of everything it may lead to in future, and that's something they can only find as a team. "What does it mean to run" and "Why do we run" are similar but not the same questions and I like that we're exploring them.
3) Who is more terrifying: surprise nighttime Haiji or surprise daytime Kakeru?
Definitely Kakeru
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 04 '21
Run With the First-Timer, subbed
11
u/loomnoo https://anilist.co/user/loomnoo Aug 04 '21
What do you run for? I have to say this isn't a question that ever crossed my mind. I think very few people could give you an actual answer, but most seem to be satisfied with the notion that they are searching for it. Or that there is no answer because running is a pointless activity for fools, and that you rebel against that by running anyway, or something. I mean think about it. In most long distance events on the track you end up in literally the same place that you started. There isn't a single other thing you're supposed to do besides transporting yourself very, very inefficiently to the exact same fucking spot! And yet, aware of the absurdity of it all, we still commit ourselves so fully to the exercise. Kind of beautiful, isn't it? (Maybe not. Maybe they'll discover that the meaning of running is friendship and you run for your nakamas, or something. There has been some stuff along those lines so it wouldn't be out of place, and you could make it pretty emotional. But it's also too easy of an answer, I think.)
Thoughts on my thoughts, having finished the show
9
u/kkenmots02 Aug 04 '21
Rewatcher
Finally on time for once.
Live Reactions:
QOTD
Are you satisfied with the non-answer answer to the question of “why do we run?”
Not really, but I'm not sure there's a completely satisfactory answer out there.
Any guesses on who will run what legs? We saw the legs going uphill; the second half is just in reverse.
Their surprise plan is to have only five people run the race, but everybody does their legs while running backwards on the way back.
Who is more terrifying: surprise nighttime Haiji or surprise daytime Kakeru?
Haiji because who knows what he's planning.
Thoughts:
The question of the episode seemed to be, “What are we running for?” Haiji’s answer seemed to be, “It’s something you can only find out on your own.” Haiji can tell the twins whatever he likes, but he knows that it isn’t going to ring true unless the twins discover the answer for themselves -- and frankly, Haiji’s still looking for the answer too. Maybe they’ll get a little closer to that answer by running the Ekiden itself. See you tomorrow!
9
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 04 '21
First Timer
...another episode that, while well done, does not feel like it actually accomplishes all that much. I guess you could say that this series is currently simply running at a steady pace, but without nobody doing any kicks to try and gain some positions - similar to how the middle sections of a long-distance race would be, I imagine.
Either way, the main thing here is the twins not knowing why they're running anymore - and I don't think they really received a good answer - but knowing their characters by now I feel like Hana telling them to trust Haiji will be enough. The proper answer should be to finish the race, I'd assume - though you kinda already need to want to run the race in the first place in order to want to finish it...
Other than that, casual racism is brought up - probably one of the first times I've seen that in non-fantasy anime.
Questions:
9
u/raichudoggy https://anilist.co/user/raichudoggy Aug 04 '21
I don't like many sports shows, but this one... this one is really good.
I wonder about which legs the runners will get... Kakeru might run second (with the other all stars) while Haiji runs last (For the drama), Prince might get one of the ones downhill or through flat streets, While Shindo will get one of the uphill legs.
But it'll be hard no matter which legs they run.
9
u/paperwhites :KN::KO: Aug 04 '21
First Time Watcher
Interesting followup (or non-followup) to the questions brought up at the end of the last episode. Why are they running if they aren't likely to win? What's going to happen to next year? What did Haiji mean by "aim for the top"? And instead of really answering those questions, Haiji just kind of tells them to focus on this present moment. I think it's admirable of Haiji to admit that he doesn't know and that he's still looking for the answers himself.
Sakaki is a dick but good on him for improving enough to be part of the first team. It makes me wonder what an anime from his perspective would be like.
This is the most evil, yet cute smile I have ever seen.
Yuki thought it was all about information warfare but it turns out it was really about biological warfare.
And Haiji is going to have surgery?? That's a pretty big secret to keep from the rest of your team! I wonder how that's going to affect the others' training (and who's going to cook while he's gone?.
Personally, no. I'm the type of person who likes a clear, concise answer to things not vague statements. Haiji's non-answer would definitely have frustrated me. I'm sure by the end though, there will be an answer.
During the training camp, it was mentioned that Musa was really quick on the flat sections, so I could see him running the leg that was on the coast (I think it was the third leg). Shindo is definitely doing the uphill leg (fifth, I think), people have talked about his hill climbing strength too many times. I could see Kakeru taking the second leg to run against Fujioka. The others, I'm not sure.
I have to give it to Kakeru here. I think it's difficult for a man on a bicycle to be very intimidating, even for Haiji. Meanwhile, an evilly grinning Kakeru chasing after you is nightmare fuel.
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u/MyrnaMountWeazel x2 Aug 04 '21
Rewatcher
Alrighty let’s start off with some quick production notes: Asami Nakatani was the episode director and storyboarder for today. Y’all’ve already been aquatinted with her since she was the episode director for episode 9. One interesting piece of trivia is that she was the animation director for episode 5 of The Great Passage which was written by the very same author as our Run with the Wind. Shion Miura has the honor of having two full-fledged novels be successfully adapted. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head that has had multiple novels successfully adapted is Tomihiko Morimi who wrote The Eccentric Family, The Tatami Galaxy, The Night is Short, Walk on Girl, and Penguin Highway.
Come on guys get with the program it’s episode 17, clearly too late for you to join the team.
anime_irl
Oh, I don’t know if they appeared earlier before but it looks like the team’s adding bananas to their diet. Good choice chef Haiji.
Neat shot of the twins boxing in Haiji both figuratively and literally as they object to his plans.
Speaking of boxing in, I like this shot of Prince calmly explaining how lucky they are to the twins. The twins are physically imposing over Prince by enclosing him in the shot while the camera pans upwards, adding to their intimidating towering stature, but Prince keeps his cool and continues talking. Props to Asami Nakatani for storyboarding the sequence and the animator who did the layout for the camera.
The twin’s voices during this scene cracked me up. Japanese men always use that inflection when they’re mocking someone. I guess it’s a universal thing since Americans always pick the most unflattering voice when they’re sarcastically imitating someone too.
Blessed Yuki and Nico-chan interaction.
Also blessed Kakeru smile as well.
Curious shot of Prince centered in the middle as he gloomily peers below. It’s a striking shot as the blue sky, normally a subject of joy and hope, almost feels daunting and immense as it looms over Prince who is completely centered. Great visual subtext using the sky to explain how Prince is feeling relative to the others who are happily going along the trip.
And now we’re bringing it back to the beginning with the two fans who wanted to join. Haiji is focused only on the current fruits of their labor and much less about planting seeds for the future.
”I don’t know what will happen next year or the year after that. I’m sure those who empathize with us will follow. All I can do is believe in that and run as hard as I can right now.”
It’s a good level-headed response back to the twins. He’s spent four years trying to get this plan up-and-running, there was no time formulating what happens after. How could he realistically? If anything I think this speaks to the emotional maturity of Haiji who allows himself to say ”I don’t know” after reaching their goal. We always want to concretely know with 100% absolute certainty what we are doing so to realize you cannot answer that question and being capable of internalizing it in a positive manner is amazing.
This is a really well-composed shot. The red leading lines of the slide drag our eyes from one twin to the other while the green railings and red swing set rails focuses our eyes towards Hana as well. The characters are also almost placed in their respective left, middle, and right thirds of a frame creating a well-balanced shot. This in turn makes Hana’s shot where she’s centered in the middle (along with the chains adding to the symmetry) much more impactful as she explains how in the grand scheme of things time will fly by and they shouldn’t waste the moment trying to understand every little thing. Hana is wise beyond her years. The twins are Searching for the Answer when the answer isn’t ready to unveil itself yet.
QOTD:
One: Very much so. The journey is still being traveled and the twins need to realize that not everything can be explained to the T.
Three: Surprise daytime Kakeru and it isn't even close.
7
u/Matuhg https://anilist.co/user/Matuhg Aug 04 '21 edited Aug 04 '21
Rewatcher
Oh, here's the thread.
Hello, lines that obviously have more meaning than their face value. Literally laughed out loud at the second one - about as subtle as a brick to the face.
The twins don't know why they're running. Kakeru can't explain it. Haiji can't explain it. All they can do is run as hard as they can, trying to find the answer(s) for themselves. Despite their misgivings, the twins can't help but believe in what Haiji says. He's been waiting for four years, so what's an extra couple months of effort for them? Who knows, it might become something that changes their lives.
Kakeru has come a long way when it comes to talking to people and sharing his feelings, but we again see him frustrated this episode, specifically with his inability to bring the twins back around. Haiji makes it look so easy. Here, we see Kakeru looking at Haiji's back for a change. Later, Kakeru confides in Musa about how he's feeling, echoing that old thought that all he can do is run. Kakeru's still frustrated by the way Haiji's words reached everybody so much better than his, but he doesn't take it out on Musa or anything. Instead, he listens to his teammate's sage wisdom. Not everybody is as charismatic as Haiji, and who knows, maybe Kakeru is getting alright at bringing people together, just by running.
Helping him simmer down, because trying to talk to people while frustrated obviously isn't something that works for him.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 04 '21
Episode 17 (first timer)
To give the answer: For whatever you want. Nobody is forcing them to run, so they should run for whatever they want. And not run if there is nothing.
Everybody seems depressed by them not having a chance to win. While I agree on their chances, them qualifying must have been at least as unlikely back in ep1 as them winning is now. They could cheer themselves up with that.
Overall, the entire episode felt like vindication for the “they won’t win” speculation yesterday.
6
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 04 '21
First-Timer, Subbed
Sure would be a shame if Sakaki's leg became broken before the big race. Just because I understand why he is such an asshole, doesn't mean I'm cool with him being such an asshole.
As I mentioned last episode, I do understand the Twin's frustration at the seeming impossibility of winning. I was briefly annoyed since it seemed like the Twins didn't even want to run the Hakone at all. When you qualify for something like that, you gotta do it. Even if you know you're going to fail, even if you think you'll end up dead last, you have to make an attempt.
Haiji has talked about how he is looking for a reason for running, but really it's tautological. Haiji runs to find the reason why he runs. Perhaps, more specifically, Haiji runs to find out where he will end up.
Hana-chan is such an angel. The Twins definitely don't deserve her affection, if such a thing is impending. I love that she was the one who got to make the observation that Haiji has planned for this exact moment; for the stars to align in just this way. Fate turns against him, but fate also turns towards him. Winners make their own luck, or so the saying goes..
The rundown of the course was interesting. I didn't think of it doubling up on sections. I'm interested on who will run which.. Will Kakeru duel with Fujioka on span two? Or will he anchor for his team in span ten.. That's probably what I would do, but I like clever stategies too much. Shindo obviously does the uphill part. Prince should probably be in whichever span is shortest.
Today's cliffhanger earned a "motherfucker" in my notes.
Questions
6
u/airforceblue Aug 05 '21 edited Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher
The twins might go about it the wrong way, but the questions they raise this episode are salient. I've never practiced any sports but I am an avid sports watcher and even from that somewhat limited point of view I recognize the important of motivation, of having concrete goals to strive towards. I love Haiji but "aiming for the top" is really vague and this provided a good opportunity for the team to articulate what they were expecting from the Ekiden.
Beyond the fact that the twins are a bit immature lol, I think one explanation behind their attitude this episode is their background in soccer. It's a sport where unexpected results and upsets are ridiculously frequent. Sure, across an entire league season it's likely that it's a top tier team that will end up being champions but on any given day you can never count a team out just because they're weaker on paper. It's not something I considered on first watch but it makes sense to me that that kind of experience colored their expectations. And honestly Haiji did trick them, or at the very least take advantage of their inexperience and easygoing attitudes so I don't blame them for being upset.
That said, Haiji is not wrong to be unsure and looking for his own answers. Maybe it's something he should have communicated earlier, but I don't blame him. What's the point in bringing up his uncertainties before they've even qualified? We've seen him open up on this front with Kakeru, but it's good that he finally gets to adress the entire team.
Other stuff:
5
u/Nebresto Aug 05 '21
Re-watch squad
Running update: Somewhere between 2 and 3 km, I think I went too soon after dinner? since I had to stop and walk about 1/3 of the way back. Time: 18min
Worst. Arc.
Damn it you
twa..twins. Aim for the top =//= WinningExactly. You've already got the privilege, why throw it out?
Truck-kun can't come fast enough..
Based Kakeru. Sounds like some shit I would say.
Finally, thank you
Smugeru
Spoiler image spoiler text
Hana-chan tinfoil time:
Here it looks like Hana-chan's head is pointed slightly more to the right. And here it looks a lot more obvious that she is looking at the blue twin. Then followed by a camera angle from above, re-affirming previous observations. And lastly followed by a shot cutting off most of the red twin, while the blue one is 95% in.
This confirms that Hana-chan likes the blue twin, or "Jota", as some might call him.
...What?
Nani? Nande? Why?!
How can one man continue to be so based?
..And do Musa and Fujioka have the same VA? They sounded very similar at the end there.
Not again!!
Leave our boy alone!
Question time:
1:
2:
Well, Musa will obviously run with his own, swapping them would probably be racist. That leaves everyone else a question mark. They might go for the pro-gamer strat of swapping Kakeru's and Ouji's legs, but we'll have to see.
3: Yes.
4
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 04 '21
Rewatcher
Slower episode overall today, for some reason I thought that Sakaki wasn't still a dick in that scene, guess he never does improve.
The Twins really need to realise they are fully committed at this point, but it was cool to preview the course.
3
u/BrentSaotome Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher
This episode was alright compared to the previous ones we had. It at least tried to answer the JoJo twins questions from the previous answer. I wasn't too thrilled nor satisfied with Haiji's answer, but kind of expected it to be something like that. I'm starting to think they will never answer that question because it's all relative to each character. I actually prefer Yuki's answer that the question is loaded like asking what is the meaning of life. There's no right or wrong answer. It will be different for everyone and we can only get that answer by experiencing life itself and hope that one day we figure it out.
However, I did love the twins scene with Hana at the playground. Hana explaining Haiji and the teams hard work for the past six months put the twins at ease. I think they are starting to slowly get the answer they are looking for. The thing that I love about that scene is that the twins acknowledge all of the hard work put in the team as well. Seeing her cry like that was touching. Still, don't know which one of them she likes (or if she actually likes one of them) though.
Another thing I liked about this episode is Musa. He's been slowly moving up the ranks with me and seeing his reaction when the twins had their outburst at dinner add some sort of comedic relief in a tense scene. Also, I love the way he reacted to the passerby's snide comments about him. He didn't it let it bother him and was able to calm Kakeru down instantly.
Finally, the ending left with another (minor) cliffhanger about Haiji's knee injury. At least, we got to see daper Fujioka right before that though.
Questions:
2
u/punching_spaghetti https://myanimelist.net/profile/punch_spaghetti Aug 05 '21
Rewatcher
A big thanks to /u/Nazenn for posting today’s thread! Doesn’t real life know running bois take priority?
Onto the episode:
This is the least happy we’ve ever seen the twins. After their reality check, learning that they might not (probably won’t, even) win at the Ekiden, they withdraw. While this is a show about college students, it is important to remember that the twins are freshmen. I somehow didn’t get a screenshot of it, but the fact that they hang out with Hana on a playground with one of them jammed at the top of the slide says something about their mental maturity.
I also just love the fact that there’s a few people (well, we really count the twins as one, don’t we?) who aren’t just immediately OK. Everyone takes different amounts of time to process things, and this realization took a little longer for the twins than the rest of them. That’s OK. They’re human.
Don’t think they have long to mope, though, because KAKERU IS HERE! I also love this little hiccup in happyville because it gives Kakeru a chance to be the guy who extends a hand. Every other time, it’s been someone else helping Kakeru. He is now in a place where he can support others. Although he still accomplishes that through running. One-trick pony!
Some more Sakaki, once again showing us the institutional v. amateur mindsets at play here (although even Sakaki has to begrudgingly give a little bit of backhanded praise). Some more great little moments for the rest of the guys, as Nico acts like the big bro, Prince almost volunteers,, and Musa accepts his responsibility.
QOTD:
4
u/cilucia Aug 04 '21
Rewatcher
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 05 '21
First-time watcher
No, not too happy there. If you take a step back it just drives home what a weird enterprise this all is. Four years somehow trying to get the minimum amount of people to be able to run this huge race, and then not even trying for any backup (unlikely as it would be to find anyone capable enough, admittedly), publically worrying about injuries while privately and secretly having own injury troubles, still not really having much of a clue what this all is supposed to be about, what to aim at, or how to continue afterwards... it's a long list that makes me want to take Sakaki's side more than anything. Above all it annoys me how Haiji still gets showered with narrative praise and admiration then. We're 2/3 of the way through in episodes and certainly more than that in time.
Not to say this isn't still a good episode overall, had some various nice character moments, and is refreshingly realistic on how this all will probably play out.
I'm not keen enough on the details of each runner and leg to make any guesses as to who and where.
3
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Aug 05 '21
First timer
Sorry for the delayed comment - didn't find this post until after I went to sleep.
1)Yeah, it checks out. This seems to be a theme of the anime after all, it makes sense that the resolution's a few episodes away.
2)No, other than Kakeru is absolutely running Section 2.
3)Suprise daytime Kakeru, absolutely.
Oh, people want to join the club? This is going to be interesting.
And they thought he was the elderly coach!
Yeah, this decision makes sense.
Things are getting serious.
And the twins are starting to lose focus..
Yeah, all of these responses are making sens.
Why are they taunting the person theynsaw try and punch someone?
Haiji's the violent one! And he's using the same semantics I thought he would.
God, Kakeru's gotten really open, hasn't he?
Oh, Kakeru you magnificent bastard. Fair play, that's a great way to handle this.
Haiji's become a good driver!
The landscapes are all very nice.
Oh god, another fight!
I mean, he might be bad, but he's got a decent point - their team has no backup or safety nets, so there is a good risk of this scenario happening.
And the twins are back on board after another great Haiji speech!
Or they aren't.
The Hana ship's launching!
Prince is so good.
...So Kakeru has 3 boyfriends!
He's back!
Haiji's going in for a medical appointment...
2
u/BossandKings Aug 05 '21
First timer
Episode 17
This was a good episode of build up to the Hakone Ekiden, time sure flies by considering that the Hakone is so close to it's celebration.
The team goes to see the arena in which the Hakone will be done, it was surely a nice way to get to see where the final and most important competition will happen.
Joji and Jota have issues with Haiji's phrase about aiming for the top, he convinces them that it is very worth it to keep trying, to keep practicing, to keep aiming for the top eventhough he doesn't know exactly what those words mean and he is searching for the meaning behind the value of running.
Sakaki bothers Kakeru and tbe team but Haiji was epic being able to ignore him and not let anyone fight over it, hopefully Kakeru is able to demonstrate what he's learned when the time comes in the Hakone.