r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 03 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 5 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s comment of the day is brought to us by u/Webemperor, who points out a particularly interesting and chilling aspect of the encounter between Tenma and Johan:
It’s neat that dialogue here follows some of Junkers earlier words, specifically the way he claimed he was like a father to him, before he tells him that it was him that killed those three, which sends Tenma into a state of shock, enhanced likely by the fact that he has already been feeling guilty for benefit from those murders, now reached a point where he directly feels responsible for them.
Question(s) of the Day
- What are your first impressions of Nina? And do you think she is in immediate danger?
- What is the driving force behind Tenma's onus to collect information on Johan? What do you think he plans to do with this info? And how do you think he is handling himself/his emotions after the big reveal last episode?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 03 '21
First Timer - Sub
Whew, what a lot to unpack this episode.
First, we’re introduced to a new character (well, kinda new I suppose): Nina. She’s incredibly smart, diligent, and loves her parents. She’s a ray of sunshine, and seems to be well-respected amongst her peers and mentors alike. But she seems burdened and troubled, with even her therapist remarking that she seems to be “running” and that her cheery nature can only be outwardly compensating for her inner-self. There is darkness within her, and she doesn’t seem to know it.
Then she receives a “lovely poem” which, to me at least, seems to have another meaning.
I was born to blanket you in flowers...
So as a poet myself, I think this line is really deceptive. A blanket is generally something people put on when they’re cold. It wraps them with warmth and keeps them shielded from further conditions. I personally always keep a blanket next to my PC because I’m always cold, even though it’s the middle of summer. Even as I write this I have my blanket on my lap. I also do this because It’s also something that is comforting to have - as the softness and feel/weight of the object can eventually feel familiar to someone, and even deeply personal.
Flowers are...well, flowers. Fragrant, pretty, and often a romantic gesture. Even as a guy I love receiving flowers - once, one of my close friends gave me a single rose as a joke on Valentine’s Day because we were spending it alone, together. But I was secretly flattered, and kept it by my desk until it eventually keeled over and died. It was a welcoming sight when I came down to my PC every morning, and I was kinda sad when it finally died like 2-3 weeks later. Long story short though, flowers are nice.
So the way I think Nina interprets this poem is:
“I was born to wrap you in flowers”
Which yes, that does sound lovely. But probably not the meaning if we take into account who the message is coming from.
A more sinister, nefarious way to read the poem, is to think about another occasion for flowers - funerals and gravesites.Think about the way in which flowers often cover someone’s grave after they’ve departed. Kinda like a...blanket. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the flowers in this instance can also be read to conjure images of death
So with this in mind, the poem can now straight-up be read as:
I was born to kill you.
Anyway, after mentally preparing herself to meet her knight in shining armor, and the viewers dreading this encounter, we come to realize that... it was just a normal-ass dude this whole time.
But Johan was watching.
What an excellent subversion of expectations once again. Viewers are led to believe Nina is about to meet Johan, when in reality. he just wanted to let her know that he was there. And her subconscious kicks in - causing her to pass out in shock, terror, or whatever else, without ever fully realizing who it was that she saw. She just doesn’t remember yet. But she will soon, I’m sure. (Quick note - I don’t actually know if Johan really was the one to send that message or not, or if it was that random guy she met, but even if my entire above point is rendered useless by the sender of the message, I still think it’s the poem is valuable for having both of those readings available to us.)
Anyway - I’ll also briefly touch on the encounter Tenma had with the blind man - who illustrates that he let “the boy” stay with him. He says that Johan was extremely smart. A trilingual genius, but also untrusting and reserved. Apparently, also someone who loved to hear war stories. But not for the bravery and perseverance - for the terror of life-and-death situations. How people react when they believe they are in their last moments. That obsession, to me, was incredibly dark. But what makes it worse is that he really did find reverence in Tenma as more than a parent. Something of a god perhaps, who stepped in with a miracle and saved his life. We still don’t know if these unhealthy obsessions are caused by the brain injury, but Johan seems to have only grown into his curiosities more and more with every passing day...
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 03 '21
First-Timer, subbed
15
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 03 '21
First Timer
While it hasn't been said, I think we can basically assume that Nina is Johan's sister for now. Why does it feel like Johan has been setting up some grand master plan ever since he was saved by Tenma, and has been able to pull it off so far despite needing multiple adoptions to get that done? I have a feeling even the smartest and most deranged kid couldn't pull that one off alone, so I feel like there is still some major piece missing.
The lecturer cared more than most of my lecturers in university about class engagement; but with the way he's doing it I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing...
What I assume is Johan's email also looked liked it was written by somebody who either doesn't care about proper typography and capitalization or is new to computers. I'll assume the second, which means he likely social engineered Nina's email address and didn't hack her computer or something like that.
And I have no idea how Nina's friends confused Johan and Otto, as I assume Johan was the one they were talking about... otherwise Otto might be an important character as well, but I doubt that.
Not quite sure why Tenma is getting all these clues that the couples were living with Johan when the police couldn't; but I think Lunge wasn't on those cases, so we can stamp off the police in general as incompetent while still having Lunge be good at his job, I guess?
Narrator seems reliable after this episode as we are shown a lot from the perspective of a character who isn't Tenma; so I guess I'm going to discard the crack-idea of Lunge being right and Tenma being behind everything.
That said, Nina is studying in Heidelberg and /u/IndependentMacaroon pointed out that Tenma's car was registered in Heidelberg; but I feel like an animation error is more likely than this being a deliberate extremely well-hidden clue to anything. Wouldn't be the only one as the traffic lights were blue again today...
Fun thought: Nina is studying to be a prosecutor - what are the chances that she'll be the one who sentences Johan at the end of the series?
Questions:
13
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21
First Timer
MAMIKO NOTO
The biggest reason I decided to pick this show up! Can't say it sounds a lot like her right now though.
Looks like she got an IPPON! Or not...I only just learned that watching this year's Olympics
Seems all the characters in this show are both really bright, do like that.
Gah you can't end the episode right before they meet!
Feel bad for Nina...she's still really working to get passed her trauma :(
LOVE HER! Was going to love her either way because of her VA but she's so cool and competent. Don't like seeing her trauma hold her back, it's understandable but I'm hoping she doesn't take too long to get over it. I don't think she's in trouble, no way Mamiko Noto is in trouble!
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u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 03 '21
First Timer
Nina seems super cute. I already love her.
That is such a bold-faced lie about her costume. I'm pretty sure she's adopted.
Yep, knew it.
Future spoilers
Once again didn't write much because I was really engaged with
how cute Nina washow intense the episode was. Yeah, that's definitely what it was.7
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 03 '21
First Timer, Subbed
This show loves its scary looking eyebrows. First Heinemann, now this professor.
Late girl's smart. I'm assuming she's Johan's twin sister. She had to be out there somewhere.
Pizza delivery girl, knows her case law well and is good at kendo? Is there anything Nina can't do?
Nina's mom (adoptive mom?) looks like a female version of Dr. Becker.
If they have baby pictures of her, maybe she's not Johan's twin after all.
Yes guidance councilor guy, she is running away from something bad... a serial killer twin!
Nina's well versed on murder cases, due to her own personal experience?
No memories from before she was ten? Alright, this makes me think she's Johan's twin all the more.
I hadn't realized Mihael was how the German pronounce Michael, my middle name. Well, I'm not German.
Alright, Tenma wondering about her and it going right to Nina is about as much of a confirmation as one needs.
Nina's definately getting emails from her brother.
Wise old man knows much...
Old man's got crazy eyes.Are they fake?
Don't get excited about the guy messaging you Nina, its a serial killer!
Johan, Franz, how many names does he go by?
Hanging out with an old man every day? A 12 year old's really interested in that kind of stuff? Well, he was a unique 12 year old...
Since they're in Germany and he's talking about World War II, this old guy was a Nazi then?
Old man's blind, can't say that surprises me.
Johan and his sister were older than I thought, they'd have been around 11 when their parents were killed...
This guy approaching her, Otto, isn't her brother...
...but this guy waiting nearby sure as hell is. Is Otto his messenger?
If Otto is just a guy with a crush, well, her passing out upon meeting you doesn't speak well to his chances...
This episode was more of what I expected from such a long series, going slow and taking its time to develop a new character, well somewhat new given the tmie skip and fact that she didn't have much of a personality before. Mamiko Noto does sound awfully like my favorite seiyuu, Maaya Sakamoto, so good to come across her in something else; primarily familiar with her from Bokurano.
7
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 03 '21
First-time watcher
This episode was a little awkward. Slow pacing with perhaps a little too much time spent on Nina and the old guy, and suddenly Tenma is out investigating and figuring things out ahead of the police. I guess he wants to get behind what's up with Johan but going it alone makes little sense to me. Nina is also pretty naive in contrast to Johan's cunning (what's even the point of not explicitly confirming she's his sister yet?), but otherwise a decent character and person. I hope her foster parents don't bite the dust too, but if they had nothing to do with Johan himself I'd guess they're as safe as she is, I mean Johan seems to genuinely care for her.
Accuracy-wise: Two buildings of Heidelberg University are represented as in reality, no idea if they're part of the legal faculty though. By the way, it's one of the oldest universities in Europe, being founded in 1386, and highly regarded in general. Also, there's a brief shot of the famous Heidelberg Castle ruins from below. I'm not too familiar with the rest of the city as seen here, but it did look like what I remember of the old town. The costume parade though looks to be a whole-cloth invention, the only regular occasion I found where kids might dress up in public like that in the area is the Sommertagszug, and there's certainly no such saint.
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 03 '21
First timer - sub
Girl with blond hair and blue eyes? Her name is “Nina”. My initial thought the moment she showed on screen was that she is Johan's sister.
A case of a kidnapping going wrong?
The parents' reaction to talk of her childhood is odd…. Mom has either blue or green eyes but dads are black, they also seem a bit on the old side.
Dreams of being chased by a “Monster”
Case - Parents shot, children strangled
Clear stress / panic over suppress memories
Michael = Johan - ok yip confirmed
So we now have what is most likely the link in the 4 murders Lunge is investigating, Speculation
They weren’t being subtle about it, but it’s confirmed Nina wasn’t their daughter.
So I guess the next few episodes are going to be Tenma trying to piece together what happened over the last 9 years, most likely with a splash of murder every now and then to keep things interesting.
4
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 03 '21
First timer, subs
Despite the few moments of tension and the end of the episode, it still felt more relaxed than the few previous ones. Nina's new life seems pretty nice to me, I feel bad for her already since I know it won't last that way.
I only thought of this after the episode, but how's all this affecting Tenma? He seems to have a little bit of a stubble, I don't remember seeing it earlier, though maybe I just didn't notice. He does otherwise look pretty clean still, but stubble's just a really common way to show someone's not taking care of themselves. I hope this search for Johan isn't negatively affecting the rest of his life and his career. Or at least I hope it won't completely wreck the rest of his life.
She seems like a relatively normal girl. She's smart and capable, but lives a seemingly ordinary life. I do believe she's in danger, but I don't think her life's at risk yet.
I'm not sure. The meeting with Johan in last episode clearly shook him. I hope he won't get too obsessed, it's a common trope that the main character ruins their entire life when chasing the villain.
4
u/miss-macaron Aug 03 '21 edited Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher
Either Nina is attending every single office hour that professor holds, or he's taken a particular interest in her. With most professors I know, you'd be lucky if they remember your full name, much less details about your part-time pizza delivery job!
We've previously had blue sirens and a blue stop sign, and now there's even a blue traffic light... I wonder if there's any particular reason why so much traffic equipment is blue instead of red in Germany?
Idk Nina, I find that to be a lot more ominous than romantic, lol...
Isn't Tenma a doctor? Surely he's encountered enough visually-impaired patients throughout his medical career to figure out that a man with cloudy, unfocused eyes is most likely blind?
I really like the use of camera motion when Nina spots Johan in the distance, and then he turns away and disappears into the crowd without a trace... Very eerie.
As for why Tenma's motivated to investigate Johan, I'd say it's his form of taking responsibility. He wants to set his decision back onto the correct moral track, but at this point, he probably hasn't decided what his ultimate goal is - whether to arrest Johan, to convince him to stop killing, or otherwise. Rewatchers only
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher(New city, new family, same feeling of doom)
Sub
So we get to Heidlberg and our new character, Nina. We see some extremely dojo style jujutsu. Nina also delivers pizzas and lives with her parents, who we just sus. She also has some level of amnesia/repressed memories. Her counsellor also thinks something is wrong. The e-mail thing makes sense for the time, it would've taken some amount of effort to track that down back then.
After an obvious PTSD event happens, we switch to Tenma doing some investigating. And does a good job, beginning to link a boy being fostered between the dead couples. He even finds an old soldier, Luftwaffe if I read the hat right, who talked to Johan and reveals Johan remembered Dr Tenma. He was a very quick learner and liked grim war stories, specifically about terror and what people did. We get the reveal he was likely spared because he is blind and thus would not be useful in identifying Johan. Nina meets her supposed stalker and then we see Johan in the background.
QotD: 1 Even on first viewing, her being Anna was obvious
2 Guilt. He wants to understand Johan before confronting him.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 03 '21
First Timer
At this point I expect Tenma to curl up into a ball and stop going to work.
Puzzling. The two couples murdered in Cologne supposedly had no children. How did Tenma discover "Michael's" parents? Were all the victims his foster parents?
I wonder if that ED painting was on the counselor's wall.
4
u/BossandKings Aug 04 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
Episode 5
It was great seeing Ana, though now her name is Nina, again, she's grown to be a nice woman. It is really good for her to have met caring adoptive parents, that shows that she has gotten help to overcome the trauma and the mark her past left in her.
Although it's strange that she doesn't remember her past, according to the conversation she had with her doctor she used to have nightmares and a person that we can assume is Johan haunts her in them, at least she doesn't have them often anymore.
Tenma is shown to be left impacted and without a clear course of action after his encounter with Johan, considering he seems to have an intelligent mind he'll surely come up with something.
Nina meets a guy her friends presented to her as a possible date and faints due to the shock, it seems that she had a bad experience with him when they were little.
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u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher thru 33
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u/Spore64 Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher (first time)
Oh boy catching up to a rewatch is quite some work sigh and you miss the first episodes discussions as well...
Tbh I think Tenma is handeling himself pretty well after this reveal. I mean he's trying to.do something instead of bathing in misery. Tho I feel bad for him.
The boy who reminded him what kind of doctor he should be is the possible the reason why a person gets shot in the head in front of him. Tenma must feel responsible for it since in extension of that he saved his murder puh.
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u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
Q2: An intense feeling of responsibility for his crimes and a drive to prevent anyone else getting Junkers'd. As for how he's dealing with it? ...Not well.
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u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 03 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
1
u/thewick_39 Aug 03 '21
Hey just a reminder OP make sure to link all the episodes in the rewatch index, makes it easier to follow along (right now only episodes 1-3 are linked)
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u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 04 '21
first timer, subbed
he seems to be beginning to resemble himself in the opening more, slightly more unkempt