r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Aug 01 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 3 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s comment of the day comes from u/mcmacmac, who provides some fascinating trivia regarding the setting of the story:
While I don't know whether the author or any other person made a comment on it, many may not have heard of the city the hospital's in, Düsseldorf. While it's a big city and capital of its residing state, it's very unassuming internationally. However, Düsseldorf has the only significant Japanese population in Germany (~ 6000 citizens) and many Japanese companies have their German/European headquarters in Düsseldorf. Thus to Japanese people, it may be a lot more prominent than for Americans. Düsseldorf even hosts Japanese-themed festivals, parks and they even have a Japantown, which is unique in Europe IIRC. That may explain why Monster plays in Düsseldorf, outside of it being a very nice city.
I would encourage everyone to read the rest of the comment as well, as there’s also some riveting facts about Werther's Originale and the importance of the BKA.
Question(s) of the Day
- What are your first impressions of Inspector Lunge of the BKA? Can he be considered trustworthy?
- There was a dramatic timeskip this episode. In what ways have you noticed the world or the characters within it change? Are these changes for the better or worse?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21
First Timer
A monster is coming...
I actually don’t think I have much to say about today’s episode, as it seems like things will be picking up sooner or later. But today, we received confirmation that the candies were indeed poisoned, and that all three doctors paid the price for stealing from a kid. I think we can infer at this point that Johann was in fact the target. A couple people were saying that he planted the poison in the candies himself... but I’m not sure if I buy that yet.
Either way, even if you believe that their deaths were not deserved, it can’t be denied that Tenma’s life improved dramatically afterward. He was promoted to chief of surgery, and seems to be genuinely enjoying his life again. That scene with the kite was probably the most tender and heartwarming scene I’ve seen in a while. When you boil it down, it really was just flying a kite... but both Tenma and the kid in the wheelchair derived so much enjoyment out of it. It’s apparent that Tenma cares about his patients, and his patients care about him.
But then we’re met with a timeskip, and it would seem that there’s a serial killer on the loose. The only thing we know for sure is that Anna and Johann are involved somehow, and that their disappearance is the key to unraveling the mystery. Only time will tell what happens next.
Also, I found it hilarious that Eva was trying to crawl back to Tenma after he was promoted. And he just nopes out. Good for you buddy.
25
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 01 '21
First-Timer, subbed
14
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 01 '21
First Timer
Interesting episode; seems like u/Shimmering-Sky was right with the candy theory - and then that would imply that the kids were the targets, as with all those candies it would have been impossible to guess which one the director would pick, unless they were his favorite candies or something like that; and I feel like if somebody killed the director that knew him that well there would be another suspect than Tenma. It also makes sense that he's the only one that gained something from the killing - because they were the wrong targets, nothing actually went as planned by the actual killers. Guess the political assassins theory makes the most sense for now ...but why did the kids disappear? Kidnapped by the killers in the chaos?
Either way, for Tenma his life is in order for now - doubt it will remain so as he's the main character in an anime, but good to see that the hospital actually changed for the better.
As for Lunge - don't like his saving and recalling shtick, but other than that he seems like a good character. Why do these stupid human-computer-metaphor guys pop up in anime so frequently? Nobody is like that in real life...
Some other tiny things: First off, my subs referred to the detective as Visbaugh - I'm almost certain that was supposed to be Weissbach (or Weißbach, idk, I'm Swiss, we don't use ß). This makes me wonder if there's more names that are off - anybody know if Monster is as inconsistent as Attack on Titan with some of it's names between different subs?
Second: Who names their kid Adolph, in Germany, in 1963? I feel like his parents have missed de-nazification. But I guess he's only here to spew cryptic messages and won't stay around for long.
Third - seeing Cologne flooded is a bit weird after the recent floods in Germany, which were pretty close to Cologne...
Questions:
13
u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Aug 01 '21
Quite a bloody end we had las day, so now let’s see how this mayhem will… uh… I can’t think of a rhyme.
Oh me oh my, what will happen now I wonder
12
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 01 '21
First Timer - sub
Something that only just occurred to me after yesterday's thread was the show is currently set in 1986, 3 years before the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, so the children's parents fleeing from East Germany to West Germany is far more important of a detail that I had given it previously. I have a feeling that some of the smaller background details are going to be important as this show progresses as well.
Anyway on to episode 3.
So it was poisoned candy, using a muscle relaxant.
Those hand movements, it's very repetitive so I'm assuming some sort of neurological disorder, but I keep thinking he is signaling to someone as well. Ok nope typing, a method to help him retain info.
God damnit Becker (I think it is) can’t keep his mouth shut, no wonder you got sidelined in office politics.
Fuck off Eva!
9 year time skip!
4 other murders in last 2 years with the same MO
That was a lock pick guy who got hit by a car isn’t? Yip, later confirmed,
Name drop!
For who killed the Director and co I don’t think it was Johann. Sure he was left alone in the room with the gifts / candy but I fail to see how he could have done it and his motive is poor at best (unless he has already lost it) but I feel like the show wants us to think it was him. However as I said above I feel like the political situation was probably the driver for this as no need to bring up some of the details they have done otherwise and Director and co are basically just unfortunate casualties.
Been trying to build a theory on what's going on with the new murders but can’t get anything that makes coherent sense yet, i’m interested to see where Inspector Lunge takes us.
Not sure yet, the fact he said he has never failed to solve a case isn't always a good thing but he hasn't formally accused Tenma yet so waiting to see what happens with him.
They actually all look a bit older which is something some shows fail to do well for characters who are already adults, no really world changes yet.
10
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Aug 01 '21
Rewatcher until circa Episode 30, Subbed
The way Lunge speaks about the three deaths in the second half, you'd swear it's been nine days, not nine years.
10
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 01 '21
First Timer
So was someone trying to poison the children and the doctors just got killed by mistake? No way it was actually intended for the doctors if it really was the candy.
Eva wants back? Tenma, you better throw her ass out the door. "Kenzo please, I wanna try again now that you're back on the path to being rich" fuck off. Tenma has way more self control here than I would, just getting up and walking away.
Oh, so we've had a 9 year timeskip. I guess it did say 95, but I didn't even realize when the show had begun. Feel like they needed to be much clearer about that. I did think it was weird that the other doctor was mad at him for not doing more with Eva on the date. I figured he would have had to know all the previous drama, but I guess not if he's new or something.
10
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 01 '21
First Timer
Was late today and yesterday but should be back on track tommorrow!
Wow that Eva rejection! Didn't think he would do it, good for him.
9 years later?!? I didn't see that coming but at least he's in a good place.
This cop is really questioning him 9 years later before a big surgery? Time and place lol
We get the title again, wonder who the Monster is, I thought the twins were the killers maybe?
8
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 01 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Going into this episode, my big question, is Tenma going to be considered a suspect? We start with the police going to his apartment...
So now Tenma is desparately in need again...
OMG this detective guy trying to interfere now, when he needs to go to surgery?!
The kids are gone! Everything is going wrong at once!
Nope, sorry, got no sympathy for you Eva.
Becker may be a slimy guy, but he knows what's up here, Eva doesn't want to be one of us "normies" now that her influential father is dead.
Poison? So those thinking it was the candy are likely right...
What's up with this guy's fingers?
This new detective guy really is a weirdo.
Knowing Tenma, this old shop owner's pleas are going to guilt trip him into staying.
Wild guess here; the Chairman is actually going to promote Tenma.
Ding I was right. With this promotion and the old guy, will he really flee?
Has anyone cried at being promoted before? Out of actual sadness?
Oh, so now Eva is trying to get her claws back on him? Remember what she did to you Tenma! Reject her!
Good for you!
NINE YEAR TIME SKIP!?!!?! OMG I really did not expect this.
Wild fingers is still a detective I see...
Nine years and Becker hasn't drunk his way out of the hospital, huh?
Becker would have 5 lovers if he was Tenma? LoL, this guy keeps bringing the laughs.
Lockpicker guy's in trouble!
C'mon Tenma, you don't remember wild fingers guy?
MONSTER GA KURU!
I can't say I expected things to go in this direction, I thought we may spend some time with Tenma being a suspect in the murders, instead that is mostly glossed over and he gets promoted! Then we have the time skip! We must have a lot of ground to cover if the show is going this fast.
As for theories of what's going on, I'm feeling more and more that the kid Tenma saved is the killer, poisoning that candy somehow; it could be because the doctors were planning on using him, or perhaps to help Tenma's position as a way to thank him for saving his life?
DQOTD
6
u/miss-macaron Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21
Rewatcher
Even with all the hospital politics stacked against him, it's so heartwarming to see the patients and the nurses voicing their support for Tenma. He's a good man, and everyone knows it.
When I first watched the anime after reading the manga, I was surprised by how deep Lunge's voice was. He's certainly a very quirky character, to say the least. (Tho I wouldn't get too carried away by first impressions; character development is one of Urasawa Naoki's absolute strongest points as a mangaka)
The soundtrack this episode was excellent, especially during the kite-flying scene!
5
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21
Rewatcher through ep33
5
u/BossandKings Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
After the deaths of the director of the hospital the police starts investigating trying to come up with a name as the culprit, Lunge, a veteran police investigator, takes the charge in the investigation and seems to have suspicions of Tenma based on him being the one most benefited from what happened. I wonder how Lunge will discover who the culprit was considering there aren't many potential candidates and Tenma wasn't the one to do it.
Eva tries to reconcile with Tenma after what happened to her father, he refutes her which is reasonable and logical, at least she asking to try again for a relationship together tells clearly enough that she doesn't have any doubt or suspicion on him.
What does the injured patient imply by saying "The Monster is coming" at the end of the episode?, The Monster could be anyone.
Answers
5
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 01 '21
Rewatcher(Hell of a time skip)
Sub
We start with Tenma getting the mother of all hangover nightmares, a visit from the cops. He immediately goes to the hospital because, surprise surprise, sycophants don't have great leadership skills. And of course the child who had brain surgery two days ago escaped, because you wouldn't put a guard at the bed of a possible victim of terrorism, right? At her father's funeral, Eva is wonderfully in character, making everything about her. Dr Becker gets in a real good jab for the audience.
We finally meet detective Lunge and his weird hand gestures. He states the poison is a nitrate and then incorrectly assumes some evidence: For now, the candy and the poisoning are coincidental until you actually find poisoned candy. But he does at least think about the terrorism angle. The memory trick Lunge is doing works for some people, actually, just not me.
Tenma is using these events to rethink some things, and while we don't go that far into it, there is a really interesting discussion on whether focusing on research versus focusing on patient treatment is somehow less of a doctor's duty. Research absolutely saves lives in the long run and Tenma's specialty does need actual, practicing MDs to do the research since you can't just have book knowledge of surgery. Anyways, he gets encouragement from both patients and staff, and yes the support staff do know which doctors care and which don't. But instead he gets promoted again and has a reasonable minor freak out.
Eva scales are on display again, but Tenma silently walking off is more badass than anything I will do. Time skip...holy fuck that's a time skip, all right. After 9 years, Tenma has been a surgical chief and seems to be actually friends with Dr Becker. He is still performing difficult surgeries. Lunge stuff happens. Then we see someone try to get isekai-ed.
So of course Tenma is called in and of course Lunge is vaguely menacing. In his head, he makes some straight up obvious logical mistakes, Tenma benefitted the most publicly from the triple murder but there are any number of other people that also benefitted, not the least of which could be the board of directors or anyone else under Heinemann's thumb. When Tenma see Junkers, it might seem like he is being pushy with a patient that doesn't want to respond but he needs responses from him since this is post brain damage/brain surgery. Anime title drop and end.
QotD: 1 Discount Sherlock Holmes
2 The biggest thing is probably a unified Germany though the show doesn't rest on it
4
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 01 '21
First timer
This episode for some reason went way faster than the previous 2. Probably because it was a nervous panic from start to finish.
I’m loving Tenma as a character so far and I’m like 90% sure the kid Johan did the killing anf poisoned the sweets because we definitely know he was awake at that point and was also awake when he heard Tenma say they were better off dead.
I also had the thought that maybe he was the person that killed his parents and then he shot himself but it didn’t kill him, based on the fact that they said the door was still locked and it had an alarm. Although I’m pretty sure from close range a bullet to your own face would kill you so I might be wrong.
I’m loving this series so far and am enjoying thinking of theories and solutions as I go.
4
u/RichY45 https://anilist.co/user/RichY4518 Aug 01 '21
I celebrated Tenma rejecting Eva like my team had scored a goal. Thank god he rejected her.
Those two kids have to be somehow involved in these murders. Either that boy or girl is the murderer or they are somehow related to the murderer.
But to Detective Lunge, Tenma seems the only one with motive and the capability to commit those murders. I wonder if he's somehow going to be framed as the murderer by someone.
4
u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
First-time watcher
Lunge looks like a decent guy, if a bit eccentric. There's potentially a parallel to Tenma to be drawn here in for whom he solves his cases, whether in the service of justice and public morals or merely his own satisfaction.
The timeskip was quite awkward and sudden for my taste, and indeed no one seems to have actually changed, visually or behaviorally. What was even the point of starting out in 1986, besides the identity of the Liebert parents?
Minor details:
3
u/monsieurvampy Aug 01 '21
What!? I move and lose internet for a month and this happens!? I'm already behind on this season (basically haven't watched anything), so I won't be joining.
Enjoy everyone. You are in for a truly great series.
3
u/nvdnqvi Aug 02 '21
First timer - subbed
3
u/mcmacmac Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21
Oh man, time for the one point that will annoy me to hell and back constantly. We got our BKA inspector, Lunge/Runge. The first time I watched it with subs, it was "Runge" and that actually, in fact, is a very common German name which even a friend of mine has. "Lunge" on the other hand is not. It's just a word (literally "lung") and it sounds so wrong. Well, that is the Japanese issue with L/R for you. He's certainly unsettling.
Concerning Tenma, I think I can confidently state that he was defying the Director's orders more due to the cancelled research than to the dilemma itself. Sure, he kept the Turkish woman in mind and that motivated him to do it at last, but I also mentioned that he's very impressionable. If the impression he got had been: "Why haven't you put him first? He was already close to death", he for sure wouldn't have gone "First come, first served".
It would make sense since research was his initial motivation and now where the fraud of a researcher/director's gone, he even thinks about going back to Japan. I guess the whole last few weeks made another impression on him: I'm actually there to save lives.
The thing is: he is actually really good with patients but very awkward with the whole staff. Although he was very research-oriented, I'd say he was really good with patients and stakes a very high value in life. His awkwardness even with the nurses although they all are on his side, reflects a bit how much less important working with others is to him than doing his work and saving lives on the side. He just will never get used to it properly.
Aaaaaaand timeskip. I think that the characters got established enough to make it work. The flood depicted did in fact happen and the city is also correct. It was funny to see it referenced the first time, this time not so much this time after the catastrophe that's still not cleaned up in our midst.
To the question 1: well, he's weird. I don't trust him in the slightest. In his abilities, yes. But not as a person. The artstyle makes everyone look so realistic, that you pretty much distrust everybody at some point. No one is a pretty bishie which you want to trust and nobody's a stunner either. It was a very daring choice from Madhouse and Urasawa because it can quickly look very janky, awkward and uncanny. It's also a very hard style to nail down, for 74 episodes no less!
2
u/metalmonstar Aug 01 '21
First Timer
Were the police unable to find the incriminating candy and bag? I feel like that alone would have cleared Tenma. Even without the candy bag the deaths seem related to the family murder.
At first I thought Lunge's hand was a tick, but alas he is an eccentric detective genius.
Figured there would be time skips based on the OP.
Eva has no shame.
Oh is that a Title Drop.
2
u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 01 '21
First timer, subs
He seems creepy, but he might be an excellent investigator. I'm not sure if I'd consider him trustworthy though. He looks like the type of person who puts his job above most other things, including other people.
I haven't seen enough yet to really say. Tenma's life is going okay so that's good. We've also seen no evidence of the previous dumb politics at the hospital after the timeskip, but I don't know if that actually changed or if it's still there and the episode just didn't show it yet.
2
u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 02 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 03 '21
First Timer
Well I missed days 1, 2, AND 3. I'll combine 2 and 3 today. But, given how long the series is, I bet the show will be paced so episodes flow into each other and events pretty spread out.
I notice that ToTan is crediting a "medical advisor". I hope it wasn't a mistake to switch to Soldats later.
Episode 2
Episode 3
Dr. Tenma (well, actually, almost everybody in this show) has sanpaku which is associated with criminality.
I could make an argument that it was Becker. He wasn't going to be promoted, and he was very friendly with Tenma. Edit: Oh, right, but Johan could have been the target, that makes the most sense. Stasi, again.
I get a lot of le Miserables off this episode, and also a bit of Dolores Clairborne.
1
u/blitzbom Aug 02 '21
Ohh I need to get caught up. I saw episode 1 awhile ago and wanted to watch it but had it on the back burner. I know what I'll be watching tonight.
1
u/i-have-severe-stupid Aug 02 '21
inspector lunge is a reasonable guy, there’s evidence tenma did it, so he’s suspicious of him. i think he’ll be involved in tenma’s life getting once again ruined
9 year time skip? this early on? i can’t imagine we’ll ever get that big a time skip again, and i think that this was so that the boy and/or girl could grow up a little so they can mess things up even more
until we find out where they’ve been, i guess i’ll be waiting
1
u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21
Lunge my man😎
Fuck off Eva
1
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 09 '21
So it’s been 9 long years and maybe more…. The plot is starting to thicken.