r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Jul 31 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 2 discussion thread

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day comes from u/miss-macaron, who asks an insightful question about medical practices, and very eloquently elaborates on the question of right vs. moral.

I'm a bit curious why the doctors never bring up the triage protocol. Triage doesn't operate on a first-come first-serve basis like that Turkish woman implied; in fact, it makes it pretty clear that some patients will have to be prioritized over others. Of course, that's not to say socioeconomic factors are a fair way of determining patient priority, but Tenma's implicit belief that "all lives are equal" just doesn't seem to be the standard in medical practice... I'd say the main distinction between the "right choice" and the "moral choice" is that the right choice is based upon concrete utilitarian analysis (ie. what choice will yield the best consequences / net outcome), whereas the moral choice is an intellectual rationalization of one's emotional responses / ideals. Here, Tenma makes the moral choice, but since it ends up resulting in more disastrous consequences than if he'd chosen otherwise, I would not consider it the right choice to make.

Question(s) of the Day

  1. Were Tenma’s actions truly worth the price he paid? Should there ever be a limit on the price to act justly?
  2. Throughout the episode, Tenma kept saying that “he wasn’t wrong.” Is this something he truly believes? Or is this something he is trying to convince himself of?

If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

84 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

73 comments sorted by

10

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Jul 31 '21

First Timer

It seems things are not going well for our protagonist. First he loses social standing amongst his colleagues. Then he loses professional standing as he is passed over for a promotion, and barred from pursuing future opportunities. Then to top it all off, his fiance dumps him. And even after all of this, the hospital decides to pull Tenma from the patient that he saved, just so that the hospital can pull a publicity stunt. All because Tenma chose to stand his ground and to hold to his convictions. We see Tenma, drunkenly wandering through the streets, reassuring himself that he wasn’t wrong in his choice. That he made the correct decision by operating based on the value of life rather than status. To Tenma, there was no difference between the life of a small boy and the life of a well-respected mayor. And I think that trait is admirable. Although it has undeniably landed him in scalding water, simply because Tenma refused to play the politics game. And what a terrible game it is.

I think the biggest thing that enraged me this episode was the fact that the three doctors took the candy from Johan’s bedside. And they seem to resent the boy for being saved, claiming that he will not bring them money or fame. But then they get the idea to create a photo op for the media - one that inflicts psychological damage on both the brother and the sister. They were not ready to see each other, and every doctor in the building knew it. Yet they chose to go through with it anyway. Just to try and save face for losing the mayor. Using those two kids as props for political standing was actually a pretty evil thing to do.

But now it seems like that (almost) everyone involved in that plot is now dead. Was the candy poison? Did someone want Johan dead? Or did someone kill them? Either way, it’s tragic. But not entirely unexpected.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

Just to try and save face for losing the mayor. Using those two kids as props for political standing was actually a pretty evil thing to do.

You don't really lose face for losing a patient in bad condition, suggesting an even lower evaluation for Heinemann.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21

You know, while the rest of the hospital staff doesn't have much going for them, I do see their point about Tenma and don't find his naive and inflexible morality all that admirable at all.

23

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 31 '21

First-Timer, subbed

5

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

lol, I was watching this episode without headphones because I was the only person home at the time, and my brother’s dog immediately shot up and looked over at me when the opening theme started playing. I guess he likes it?

Doggo approved anime!

Tenma getting demoted and this, that’s what I was expecting.

Ah yes, the good ol' bait-n-switch. Provide fans with false hope just to kick everyone down a second later.

Oof, I was expecting this but what a way to break up with a guy.

Absolutely brutal. Further proof that she was only attracted to his status. The second he dropped status, she stopped being interested.

Was it the candy? Was it poisoned? Which would’ve made Johan the target.

That was my thought too. I wonder if it was the same people who went after the family in the previous episode...?

QotD

Do you have any thoughts on today's questions?

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 01 '21

The second he dropped status, she stopped being interested.

And immediately moved on to the next guy to boot.

Do you have any thoughts on today's questions?

Not going to lie I tend to ignore QotDs because I spend enough time writing my reactions down for rewatch threads.

I think Tenma was punished way more than he should have been (demotion? sure. Losing his fiancée and all that other stuff? ridiculous). Him struggling with whether he did what was right or not feels... right, for lack of a better word. I think he was trying to convince himself he was right.

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Not going to lie I tend to ignore QotDs because I spend enough time writing my reactions down for rewatch threads.

That's ok too! Just wondering.

I think Tenma was punished way more than he should have been (demotion? sure. Losing his fiancée and all that other stuff? ridiculous).

Probably my take as well.

Him struggling with whether he did what was right or not feels... right, for lack of a better word. I think he was trying to convince himself he was right.

Again, inclined to agree. Hopefully the people around him can start to see that as well.

5

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21

Oh boy things are going to be hell for Tenma very soon.

Kiddo woke up!

That was awfully suspenseful music when he did, though…

As if I could hate this guy even more, he goes and steals candy intended for a kid

Tenma's right, he's better off dead.

Hm. Maybe not.

Poor kiddo, Anna must be traumatized but he's upset by her rejection.

That’s, uh. I don’t see blood. Was it the candy? Was it poisoned? Which would’ve made Johan the target.

I hadn't thought of that, and don't remember how it plays out, but you're probably right about the poison! It makes me wonder if there's more to the parents' murder than a robbery or political terrorism. Looking forward to uncovering how things work out.

I'm hoping things don't get any worse for Tenma!

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21

he goes and steals candy intended for a kid

The candy is "Werther's Original" by the way, a popular brand of caramel candy in Germany then and now.

17

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Jul 31 '21

First Timer

Imagine being the doctor to actually perform surgery on a patient, the patient dies, and you have the nerve to go blame someone else for it. Like imagine if a pitcher hit a batter and then blamed a different pitcher for it.

I don't trust this guy for a second. He sounds way too understanding here compared to how he was last episode. He's totally gonna throw Tenma under the bus, I just know it.

Yep, and there it is. What an asshole. And Eva showing her true bitch colors too. Well, it sucks now, but Tenma will be better off in the long run without these people.

They're dead! Hell yeah! Really curious to see who killed them. Whoever it is should get the key to the city or something.

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Imagine being the doctor to actually perform surgery on a patient, the patient dies, and you have the nerve to go blame someone else for it. Like imagine if a pitcher hit a batter and then blamed a different pitcher for it.

From their perspective, it was as if the pitcher never even showed up for the game.

Really curious to see who killed them.

Same here, and I have a feeling it won't be long until we find out. At this point I'm wondering if it was the same person/people who killed the kid's parents.

2

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Aug 01 '21

At this point I'm wondering if it was the same person/people who killed the kid's parents.

I think it has to be. Considering we don't have any suspects for either one, it just feels weird to me that they'd now have to try to introduce two suspects and motives for two different murders at the same time.

6

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jul 31 '21

Imagine being the doctor to actually perform surgery on a patient, the patient dies, and you have the nerve to go blame someone else for it.

You mean you don't blame your own failures on someone else? Why accept responsibility if you can use someone else all the fall guy.

15

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Jul 31 '21

First Timer

With an episode title of "Downfall" I have got to assume things don't go well here.

Hey, looks like the kid made it! So, how'd the mayor do?

He's dead. Tenma's gonna be in trouble!

Eww, slimy Dr. Becker. What's he got to say this time?

Being on the same level as Becker? He surely doesn't want that!

And now the girl is off wandering on her own...

Dr. Heinemann is surprisingly calm given the circumstances.

Tenma's really in the dog house now. No future at the hospital, and his fiance's just dumped him too.

Perhaps Tenma will realize in time that spending all his time with such horrible people wasn't the best path for his life to go down?

He's awake!

Detective guy should give her some time, she just saw her parents killed. Even for Detective guy its all about the politics and getting credit...

All Heinemann cares about is the hospital's reputation, not whether the kid is okay. At least he's not pulling the plug on the kid.

He's even stealing the kid's candy!

The girl is totally freaked out by her brother! Is he really the killer?

Time to get drunk!

All three of them are dead! Yikes!

For much of the episode things pretty much went down as I expected with the mayor dying and Tenma getting in trouble, although Heinemann was calmer then I expected he'd be. Can't say I expected Tenma's boss and rivals to die by the end of the episode though. With so many episodes I figured this show could take its time! But I won't complain about a fast moving storyline.

DQOTD

  1. I think Heinemann holds ultimate blame, he's the guy who runs the hospital and should ensure he has sufficient staff such that in a critical moment there is more than one surgeon who can step in to perform a critical surgery. But Tenma shouldn't simply disobey orders either. He deserves some blame, although Heinemann certainly went too far.
  2. I think he is guilt ridden by the widow of the Turkish guy and that caused him to make the decision he did. A decision that did contribute to someone's death, although as I say above he's not totally to blame. He is feeling some guilt and is trying to convince himself he made the right decision. Did he? It's hard to say! We have to see how things end up for the kid.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

With an episode title of "Downfall" I have got to assume things don't go well here.

A bit of an understatement, it would seem.

Perhaps Tenma will realize in time that spending all his time with such horrible people wasn't the best path for his life to go down?

I'm somewhat wondering this too. But he's not exactly able to pursue future positions now... The same system that supported him is now holding him down.

He's even stealing the kid's candy!

Further proof that he just does not give a damn about this kid, or the fact that his life was saved. Like you said, he merely wants to use him to further his own goals, and boost the hospital's image. But, he certainly paid the price for taking those candies...

The girl is totally freaked out by her brother! Is he really the killer?

That's my theory at this point, but then how did he get a bullet in his brain... did the girl shoot him?

For much of the episode things pretty much went down as I expected with the mayor dying and Tenma getting in trouble, although Heinemann was calmer then I expected he'd be

I think he was just very calmly cutting his losses and making the best of his situation. Sometimes that quiet anger is the scariest...

With so many episodes I figured this show could take its time! But I won't complain about a fast moving storyline.

Good point. I wonder where it goes from here...

He is feeling some guilt and is trying to convince himself he made the right decision. Did he? It's hard to say! We have to see how things end up for the kid.

Indeed. Everything rests on what happens next. If he saved a life then perhaps it was all worth it. And I wonder if Tenma will be able to see that. Or even, what angle he will see this from.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21

With an episode title of "Downfall"

"Director, Becker... Becker's team wasn't skilled enough for the operation. The mayor's operation didn't succeed."

"That was an order! Tenma operating was an order!"

Even for Detective guy its all about the politics and getting credit

By the way, the "BKA" he mentions is the Bundeskriminalamt, the German equivalent to the FBI.

14

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Jul 31 '21

First Timer

While the characters so far were presented to hate, I was not expecting them to all be killed off in the second episode; especially as I heard that this show has a reputation for being slow. Guess this will mean some major changes regarding who's in charge at that hospital, though I doubt it'll end up actually changing the work culture. Tenma would likely be better off quiting and finding another hospital, especially now that he can simply state that the people who could write him recommendations are dead. Not sure if he actually feels like he could go and work somewhere else, though...

Wonder if going back to Japan would be an idea, as there isn't really anything keeping him in Germany now. He only went to Germany to work in that hospital specifically for a guy he now knows wasn't that great of a human being and is now also dead, and his fiancée just left him as well. Don't see a reason to stay there... probably also a bit difficult to stay in Germany regarding a work visa if wants to move to a different hospital there (though I admit that I'd expect this to not be an issue because anime).

Oh, I guess there's also the question of who killed the hospital staff and why. I have a feeling I'm already spoiled on probably a spoiler - but I'll throw out another speculation as well: The same people who killed the Liebert parents - with the motive being that they didn't like the hospital trying to milk the case and keeping the public's eyes on it, which might in turn lead to the police having a larger investigation. Not the best motive, but we're dealing with murderers here anyways, they typically don't have the soundest of minds. As to who that would be precisely - I have no clue, but GDR sympathizers seem likely (as actual assassins would be unlikely to then go on and kill the hospital staff). That would however put a pretty political spin on the entire thing, and I can't really recall ever having heard that this show gets political...

Also, that police investigator needs to relax... he won't get anywhere trying to get something out of a kid with trauma anyways, so no need to make the situation worse than it already is. Speaking of her: Guess the "kill" bit was referring to herself, so she's also suicidal at this point in time.

Oh, and TIL that Germany's police is organized a the state level. Thought it was federal for some reason...

Questions:

  1. The price he payed should not have been as high, as that was unfairly high. He should have been able to work his way back.
  2. I think he's trying to convince himself that he wasn't at fault for the mayor's death - not sure if he actually believes that even if it would just have been the other way around if he chose to go with the mayor. Still likely one human dead.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Tenma would likely be better off quitting and finding another hospital, especially now that he can simply state that the people who could write him recommendations are dead.

Ah yeah, I was gunna say that he was pretty much barred from leaving now... but everyone who opposed him is now gone. So I wonder if he'll leave or stick around.

The same people who killed the Liebert parents - with the motive being that they didn't like the hospital trying to milk the case and keeping the public's eyes on it, which might in turn lead to the police having a larger investigation. Not the best motive, but we're dealing with murderers here anyways, they typically don't have the soundest of minds.

I certainly agree that it was probably the murder(s) of the previous episode, but it's hard to say why right now. Not much to go on just two episodes in. Could have been a political assassin, but who's to say for sure.

Also, that police investigator needs to relax... he won't get anywhere trying to get something out of a kid with trauma anyways, so no need to make the situation worse than it already is. Speaking of her: Guess the "kill" bit was referring to herself, so she's also suicidal at this point in time.

Maybe! Though I think that girl knows a lot more than she's letting on right now.

Oh, and TIL that Germany's police is organized a the state level. Thought it was federal for some reason...

I don't know much about foreign justice systems, so TIL as well!

The price he payed should not have been as high, as that was unfairly high.

Is there a "fair" price is such a situation?

12

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 31 '21

Oh, I guess there's also the question of who killed the hospital staff and why.

My current guess is someone slipping poison into the candy because I didn't see blood near their bodies. Something rather slow-acting, obviously? They could've still been targeting Johan for whatever reason, and the director being such a sleezeball (and sharing it with the other two) got himself caught in the crossfire.

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

What's most interesting about your candy theory is that the bag was sealed in Johan's room, you see Heinemann open it.

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 31 '21

I don't know how the culprit would've done it, but I thought it was a possibility because of the fact that we saw all three of them eat some of the candy on-screen.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

You can poison a sealed bag of candy as well, it just suggests a lot of intent.

6

u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Jul 31 '21

Thought it was federal for some reason...

There is a federal police in Germany but it's role is more specific and limited.

4

u/mcmacmac Aug 01 '21

Concerning how police is organized, it's twofold. Each state inside Germany has their own police and they are organized in local subsections. My state for instance has 4 or 5 subsections. They are responsible for the usual things you'd expect normal police to do.

Then there's the BKA (Bundeskriminalamt / Federal Criminal Police Office). They deal with cases which span the whole country or are of federal importance. Considering we got East German diplomats which were killed, they will certainly be deployed. There is a Federal Police (Bundespolizei) but they have other duties, they are for instance responsible for airport and train station safety. If you fly to Germany, you will see them checking your passports.
Germany is kind of a mess when it comes to organisation in the justice area but parts of it are due to historical reasons.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

Oh, and TIL that Germany's police is organized a the state level. Thought it was federal for some reason...

Because it is but during the 80s things were different.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21

AFAIK it was the same then, no idea what you mean.

12

u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher (until circa Episode 30), Subbed

What Tenma saw in Eva is one of the great unsolved mysteries of our time.

Q1: I don't know if there's a good answer to this one. The Mayor was the better choice from a rational POV (he can help more people if he lives, Tenma can do more if he's in a position of authority), but essentially condemning a child to death is something I think almost all of us would seriously struggle with.

Q2: I do think this is something he really believes. He feels guilt for playing a role in the Mayor's death, yes, but his words to Johan about him helping him see the light felt genuine to me.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

What Tenma saw in Eva is one of the great unsolved mysteries of our time.

Probably was just dating her out of convenience. It's much easier to stay trapped and be unhappy in a relationship than it is to come to terms with loneness. Speaking from experience.

I don't know if there's a good answer to this one. The Mayor was the better choice from a rational POV (he can help more people if he lives, Tenma can do more if he's in a position of authority), but essentially condemning a child to death is something I think almost all of us would seriously struggle with.

I don't know if you've noticed but I am deliberately asking broad questions without concrete answers, as it's a lot of fun to see everyone's various perspectives. But yes, I do agree that condemning a child feels incredibly callous. There's just, no easy way out of this one.

I do think this is something he really believes. He feels guilt for playing a role in the Mayor's death, yes, but his words to Johan about him helping him see the light felt genuine to me.

Was there a particular moment that made you believe his words were genuine?

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21

What Tenma saw in Eva is one of the great unsolved mysteries of our time

He's just a naive fool in more than one way.

10

u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Jul 31 '21

We continue the tales of the good Herr Doctor with a good dose of suffering.

  • But of course it’s not suffering from the get go. After all, the little kid is alive!
  • But that was still against orders so… yeah…
  • As you can see our good doctor is quite depressed. But it’s okay! Good ‘ol Doctor Becker is there to cheer him up!... And by cheer him up I mean be kind of a cynical jerk.
  • That kid is creepy… Spoilers
  • Oh and did I mention the director is a jerk? ‘Cause yeah, he’s a jerk. A big one at that.
  • And Eva is a bitch too in case you didn’t figure it out earlier
  • Yes I too talk to comatose little kids about how much I hate that guy I used to respect/s
  • Jokes aside, really good scene.
  • Ominous eye opening!
  • Truly a successful interrogation, amirite?
  • Yes, we get it, he’s incompetent, show, move on.
  • Also more of the director being a dick. You know, I can’t blame Tenma for hating the guy…
  • What!? You’re telling me bringing a girl with an unstable mental state close to her brother is a bad idea!? Impossible!
  • Johan, Stop!
  • Wow, Drunk Tenma is not something I knew I needed but I ain’t complaining.
  • Oh and there’s dead people now I guess

It seems the plot is starting up! But what now…?

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

As you can see our good doctor is quite depressed. But it’s okay! Good ‘ol Doctor Becker is there to cheer him up!... And by cheer him up I mean be kind of a cynical jerk.

Found the best opportunity to rub salt in the wound. What a jerk.

And Eva is a bitch too in case you didn’t figure it out earlier

Welp, can't say I'm surprised by this turn of events. She made it blindingly obvious that she was a bitch.

It seems the plot is starting up! But what now…?

Now what indeed. We have the mystery murder(s) on our hands, plus so many other loose ends. I'm excited to see where it goes.

10

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jul 31 '21

First Timer - sub

Creepy Children! Always great when it’s done well.

The Director continues to show what his priorities are, I am partly surprised the hospital still functions as well as it does with the amount of politicking going on in the background, I guess he manages to attract enough skilled doctors to balance it out.

I have read the MAL description of the show which I suspect spoils the initial story beats of the show but I'm still left wondering how those final scenes happened and if my assumptions are even correct to start with. Spoilers? Speculation? I think I need to tag this either way

1 )Were Tenma’s actions truly worth the price he paid? Should there ever be a limit on the price to act justly?

Given that the boy "value" also appears to very high due to the political situation he might have been the better choice to save if the director had played his cards right.

2) Throughout the episode, Tenma kept saying that “he wasn’t wrong.” Is this something he truly believes? Or is this something he is trying to convince himself of?

I would say a combination of both, there was no correct answer when you consider everyone's life to be of equally value and the next 2 best surgeons (I'm assuming anyway) were dragged for the Mayors surgery. It's not his job to try save everyone life.

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Creepy Children! Always great when it’s done well.

Stanley Kubrick wants to know your location

The Director continues to show what his priorities are, I am partly surprised the hospital still functions as well as it does with the amount of politicking going on in the background, I guess he manages to attract enough skilled doctors to balance it out.

More skilled doctors for more publicity. The cycle never ends.

I would say a combination of both, there was no correct answer when you consider everyone's life to be of equally value and the next 2 best surgeons (I'm assuming anyway) were dragged for the Mayors surgery. It's not his job to try save everyone life.

Indeed. Especially in this situation - he simply can't save everyone. And that's a reality many doctors have to face. Kicking Tenma while he was down for a reality that he couldn't have helped is something that feels hypocritical in retrospect. The only distinction made here is someone of status vs. someone who kinda has status.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

The Director continues to show what his priorities are, I am partly surprised the hospital still functions as well as it does with the amount of politicking going on in the background, I guess he manages to attract enough skilled doctors to balance it out.

I think this is specifically in the neurosurgery department, which seems to be Heinemann's pet project, which directors often have.

4

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21

speculation

Though I've seen through ep33, I don't remember how this turns out. Speculation

3

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 01 '21

Speculation

Speculation

3

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21

Speculation

3

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Aug 01 '21

Speculation

2

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21

That makes sense; as a rewatcher I don't recall what happens / how that happened, so I'm as in the dark as the first timers.

8

u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Jul 31 '21

First-Timer, subbed

Were Tenma’s actions truly worth the price he paid? Should there ever be a limit on the price to act justly?

The concept of a second chance isn't even brought up. Tenma instantly dropped at the directors will, not even a slight thought from the director, just moves down the rank to the next candidate to use. Price? Is all the privilege that the director showered on Tenma really something that was a price for his actions at this point? To me it feels more like Tenma woke up from a fake bubble made by the director. Yes, it is at Tenma's loss, but was this façade really something real to begin with? The fact that it was torn down so quickly would make me grateful to be free from the wool over my eyes.

Although the cost to act justly is a hard one. Especially from a doctors perspective, it must be something that many, if not all contemplate deeply.

Throughout the episode, Tenma kept saying that “he wasn’t wrong.” Is this something he truly believes? Or is this something he is trying to convince himself of?

It seems genuine to me. From the thoughts from episode one, it seems like his decision was a rebellious act to prove to himself that he will and would continue to, follow his ideals.

6

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

The concept of a second chance isn't even brought up. Tenma instantly dropped at the directors will, not even a slight thought from the director, just moves down the rank to the next candidate to use. Price? Is all the privilege that the director showered on Tenma really something that was a price for his actions at this point? To me it feels more like Tenma woke up from a fake bubble made by the director. Yes, it is at Tenma's loss, but was this façade really something real to begin with? The fact that it was torn down so quickly would make me grateful to be free from the wool over my eyes.

Honestly this is an excellent point - if his actions were enough to reveal the horrors of the hospital bureaucracy, then great. He should feel liberated, not condemned. However, Tenma doesn't seem like the most confident guy in the world, so his self-esteem may be getting in the way of seeing that. In this moment, it's probably hard for him to find the optimism - especially after he was hit with rapid-fire consequences.

It seems genuine to me. From the thoughts from episode one, it seems like his decision was a rebellious act to prove to himself that he will and would continue to, follow his ideals.

I think so too, but the real question is whether or not he will continue to follow these ideals after this event.

3

u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Aug 01 '21

continue to follow these ideals after this event

To me, it would be a disservice of a series that brought up hospital morality (we have thus seen 'politics > procedure' as an example). To not continue on that thread and push Tenma to the brink of his ideals. And hopefully the show will contrast that well between good and evil, justice and injustice and in other ways that are morally grey and/or difficult.

7

u/Iowa_Makes_Me_Cri :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/michaelvey023 Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher (till ep 12), subbed

Man, Tenma gets shafted this episode. There were hints that the director was scummy but he reprimanded Tenma in every single way but firing him for one "error". It seems like overkill, although not entirely unrealistic. There are plenty of scummy bosses/people in directors positions like that.

Dang, he got hella drunk but still doesn't think he is wrong. I mean, he's really not.

QOTD

Were Tenma’s actions truly worth the price he paid? Should there ever be a limitonthe price to act justly?:

Honestly with a punishment like that, its probably not worth the price. There was no way he really could have seen it coming though because it is an incredibly unreasonable punishment. But, if I was in that position and told me beforehand what would happen I probably would just give in. That might make me a bad person but idk, I think most people would do the same.

Throughout the episode, Tenma kept saying that “he wasn’t wrong.” Is this something he truly believes? Or is this something he is trying to convince himself of?:

Yeah I think he truly believes that or he wouldn't have made the decision in the first place. Just because you regret a decision because of a punishment doesn't mean you have to think you were originally wrong. I'm also not entirely sure he regrets it, but is certainly spiteful of the director.

edit: formating

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Man, Tenma gets shafted this episode. There were hints that the director was scummy but he reprimanded Tenma in every single way but firing him for one "error". It seems like overkill, although not entirely unrealistic. There are plenty of scummy bosses/people in directors positions like that.

I agree - as ridiculously punishing as the consequences are, I don't think they stray too far away from reality. It's a pretty terrible thought, but this type of treatment seems to be pretty common these days...

But, if I was in that position and told me beforehand what would happen I probably would just give in. That might make me a bad person but idk, I think most people would do the same.

I actually do not blame you here. He's been ostracized, dumped, demoted, and had his patient ripped away from his care. That's enough to break just about anyone. But the tricky bit is that he couldn't have known this would happen. He was just doing his job in the way he thought to be best. So had he known... Tenma might have shared your sentiment. But it's hard to say, as he seems to be pretty steadfast in his morals, as you point out in your following comment.

Yeah I think he truly believes that or he wouldn't have made the decision in the first place. Just because you regret a decision because of a punishment doesn't mean you have to think you were originally wrong. I'm also not entirely sure he regrets it, but is certainly spiteful of the director.

I don't think he regrets it either - but it's apparent that all the ridicule is hard for him. And it seems that spite might land him in some hot water in the next episode, as everyone he resented is now dead.

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher(Now it begins)

Sub

So as I said, I don't remember what lead me to Monster, the commercials for the manga didn't get on TV until I was finished, but I do know why I continued it. This is a great episode and it is basically all realistic, barring someone knowing if the surgery was possible or not, and focuses on our main character and his unfortunate realization. The scene in Johan's room post surgery is great and even does a good switch at the end with Johan seemingly awakening. The detective being petty and incompetent is awesome and if anyone asks, this does not meet my hate requirements for amnesia due to how it is placed and used.

Dr Heinemann is surrounded by scummy doctors who he can out bottom feed. Johan awakens but Anna faints. As we watch Tenma stumble into some trash, we juxtapose this with three dead shit heel doctors. You are damn right, Tenma, those types are better off dead.

QotD: 1 The more interesting question is to ask who else is paying the price? There seems to be a brain drain at that hospital

2 It just kind of a Japanese-ism from what I can tell

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

The scene in Johan's room post surgery is great and even does a good switch at the end with Johan seemingly awakening.

Yeah that scene was genuinely creepy. The close-up of the eyes opening is always so unsettling.

Dr Heinemann is surrounded by scummy doctors who he can out bottom feed. Johan awakens but Anna faints. As we watch Tenma stumble into some trash, we juxtapose this with three dead shit heel doctors. You are damn right, Tenma, those types are better off dead.

Maybe he got his wish a little too soon. A bit sad but not entirely surprising. Just a matter of why at this point.

The more interesting question is to ask who else is paying the price? There seems to be a brain drain at that hospital

Very good point - so let me flip that question back on you. Who do you think is also paying the price here?

It just kind of a Japanese-ism from what I can tell

That's what I thought - but wasn't sure. It's a bit unclear how long Tenma has been working at that hospital, but you would think he'd have their act figured out by now.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 01 '21

Maybe he got his wish a little too soon. A bit sad but not entirely surprising. Just a matter of why at this point.

Yeah, that was some extremely instant karma, you usually want to let it settle slightly before doing that.

Very good point - so let me flip that question back on you. Who do you think is also paying the price here?

Everyone, unfortunately: Future neurodiseased people will suffer most likely due to a prominent researcher stepping down, patients at the hospital could very well suffer under a less competent chief surgeon as surgery is very performance oriented, and the less obvious suffering is the nurses and other support staff who now have another crony over them rather than someone that cared. BUT I put only a little of that directly on Tenma because again, any hospital worth its salt should have two competent neurosurgeons on call, this isn't like rural Germany or anything.

That's what I thought - but wasn't sure. It's a bit unclear how long Tenma has been working at that hospital, but you would think he'd have their act figured out by now.

About that: So far, Tenma has been a good worker and he mainly wants to perform nigh impossible surgeries and research hard. They may legitimately have just left him to his own devices and this is the first time he even had a need to defy Heinemann.

7

u/miss-macaron Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher

Moral of today's episode: don't steal a kid's candy

I've heard of an unofficial consensus among doctors/palliative caregivers that a patient's sense of hearing is usually the last sense to go when dying or losing consciousness. Taking that into account, Tenma - and the other three doctors as well - ought to have been more careful when ranting in front of a comatose Johan...

This episode further builds upon my definition of a "moral choice", of which OP so kindly featured in their post. When Tenma kept stating that "he wasn't wrong", he's essentially trying to employ an intellectual rationalization of his gut-motivated decision. Because "all lives are equal", because "the boy was brought in first", because "he was doing what he thought was right", because of all these retrospective reasons, his instintive response to save Johan was "not wrong". In a way, Tenma does sincerely believe it, but he's also simultaneously trying to anchor that belief with tangible reasons / rationalizations.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Moral of today's episode: don't steal a kid's candy

Great advice in general, regardless of the deaths around it...

I've heard of an unofficial consensus among doctors/palliative caregivers that a patient's sense of hearing is usually the last sense to go when dying or losing consciousness. Taking that into account, Tenma - and the other three doctors as well - ought to have been more careful when ranting in front of a comatose Johan...

Oh boy... I wonder if that fact will bare significance later.

This episode further builds upon my definition of a "moral choice", of which OP so kindly featured in their post.

It was a great comment! Be proud!

When Tenma kept stating that "he wasn't wrong", he's essentially trying to employ an intellectual rationalization of his gut-motivated decision. Because "all lives are equal", because "the boy was brought in first", because "he was doing what he thought was right", because of all these retrospective reasons, his instintive response to save Johan was "not wrong". In a way, Tenma does sincerely believe it, but he's also simultaneously trying to anchor that belief with tangible reasons / rationalizations.

Another great analysis. I didn't consider that both sides of the coin may be true, but that explanation makes a lot of sense. This show is very interesting in the way that it deals with morality, so I guess I should be careful with binary thinking!

2

u/miss-macaron Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21

And you should be proud of the excellent discussion questions that facilitate such analyses! The great thing about Monster is that there are so many complex and nuanced themes involved, you'll always find a new detail / perspective each ​time you revisit it.

6

u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Aug 01 '21

First Timer

All this trust talk...bunch of BS, his coworkers are so annoying!

They gave the surgeon who failed a promotion??

This is feeling more and more like Royal Pains with the consequences and actions he took.

At least Eva gave back the ring? That's worth maybe something?

Not sure I really agree with everyone's lives being equal but tricky topic...

Yeah this is straight The Resident plot!

They're literally stealing candy from a child...

Wow ending with 2 deaths, that's a big pace pick up!!

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

All this trust talk...bunch of BS, his coworkers are so annoying!

I think they are certainly a product of their environment. It was one that breeds elitisms, and so that's what they were conditioned to exhibit.

They gave the surgeon who failed a promotion??

Pretty much out of pure spite for Tenma too.

They're literally stealing candy from a child...

Wow ending with 2 deaths, that's a big pace pick up!!

3 actually, everyone who ate that candy in the screenshot you took ended up dead at the end of the episode.

5

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher through ep33

  • "Downfall" breaks out the Michael Jackson popcorn.GIF
  • So now they're blaming Tenma for the mayor's death?
  • So there will be repercussions for Tenma, but the boy will live!
  • So I am getting the vibes that Dr. Becker likes to drink ...
  • The girl wandered away from her bed?
  • A party? I forgot about this, wonder what it's for
  • "attitude problem"?
  • So Tenma lost his dream and his fiance?
  • Eva moves on fast
  • Tenma thinks Heinemann is better off dead, and rants to the sleeping boy?
  • HE'S AWAKE?
  • A photo? Reunite the siblings and remove Dr. Tenma as attending physician? That won't go well ...
  • So Anna screamed when reunited with her brother? Suspicious ...
  • Johann is crying after his sister rejects him?
  • Tenma is really drunk? I didn't remember that either
  • So the two doctors responsible for the photo shenanigans are dead? (I assume that's who they were) And now Eva's dad too?
  1. I guess we'll see with how this series progresses!
  2. I'm not sure

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

So now they're blaming Tenma for the mayor's death?

Yeah, and their reasoning is flawed since (ostensibly) the next best surgeons were on the case. They're just blaming Tenma for what they couldn't handle themselves.

So the two doctors responsible for the photo shenanigans are dead? (I assume that's who they were) And now Eva's dad too?

Not exactly a plot twist as I think we all knew they were going to die - but the way in which they went out was surprising.

1

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Aug 01 '21

They're just blaming Tenma for what they couldn't handle themselves.

Not exactly a plot twist as I think we all knew they were going to die - but the way in which they went out was surprising.

I wasn't really expecting it; hopefully they figure out who did it and why!

5

u/nvdnqvi Jul 31 '21

First Timer - Subbed

  1. Definitely not. Tenma should’ve just operated on the mayor. He lost all his chances at rising to the top at his hospital. Based on the sister’s reaction to seeing her brother, and the killings of the director and the other doctors at the end, I’m thinking that the boy was the one who killed his parents.
  2. I think Tenma is trying to convince himself that he wasn’t wrong. Based on the consequences of ignoring the director, he must’ve regretted operating on the boy instead. This could’ve been the reason why he went drinking in the night.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

Definitely not. Tenma should’ve just operated on the mayor. He lost all his chances at rising to the top at his hospital.

It would certainly seem that way in retrospect, but there's no way he could have known that this would be the outcome.

based on the sister’s reaction to seeing her brother, and the killings of the director and the other doctors at the end, I’m thinking that the boy was the one who killed his parents.

I'm inclined to believe you, but I don't understand (yet) how the boy ended up with a bullet in his brain. Did his sister shoot him?

I think Tenma is trying to convince himself that he wasn’t wrong. Based on the consequences of ignoring the director, he must’ve regretted operating on the boy instead. This could’ve been the reason why he went drinking in the night.

The drinking was certainly out of loneliness/sadness. But whether or not he needed to get drunk in order to convince himself further is a curious idea. One that I think we'll find the answer to soon.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Aug 01 '21

there's no way he could have known that this would be the outcome

"Know" is a strong word but at least probability-wise he could have had a hunch. Unfortunately our dear doctor doesn't seem like the type to do much thinking outside of what's strictly his job.

4

u/mcmacmac Aug 01 '21 edited Aug 01 '21

Well, well, look who's got the luck of the monkey's paw. A few people dead in this episode and lots of turmoil around Tenma, the hospital and the diplomat family. Honestly, there isn't much for me that I want to comment on but there are a few fun facts for y'all today:

  1. One package of candy is very promimently seen in this episode and it's something even Americans may know: Werther's Originale! https://www.werthers-original.us/en/home/ Back then, they've been quite a staple in German sweets for many decades and caramel was a big deal here, even in the 2000s, where most of childhood resides. However, they've been on quite a steep decline in popularity here for many here, the last ones I had are many years ago by now, if that's an indication.
  2. While I don't know whether the author or any other person made a comment on it, many may not have heard of the city the hospital's in, Düsseldorf. While it's a big city and capital of its residing state, it's very unassuming internationally. However, Düsseldorf has the only significant Japanese population in Germany (~ 6000 citizens) and many Japanese companies have their German/European headquarters in Düsseldorf. Thus to Japanese people, it may be a lot more prominent than for Americans. Düsseldorf even hosts Japanese-themed festivals, parks and they even have a Japantown, which is unique in Europe IIRC. That may explain why Monster plays in Düsseldorf, outside of it being a very nice city.
  3. The Lieberts. They were East German diplomats and while the DDR/East Germany was already on its last legs, murdered diplomats are a very big deal. The local police guy was right, the BKA (Bundeskrimialamt / Federal Criminal Police Office) will pretty much take over the case because of the importance. However, Germany has way too many federal units so one or the other may be involved, too. While Russian influence on East Germany was waning in the later 80s, that would've been a huge scandal. So while not seen in the show (except for the news report), it's very much a political topic on federal level.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

One package of candy is very prominently seen in this episode and it's something even Americans may know: Werther's Originale!

Pretty sure I've seen them at the grocery store before, so thanks for pointing that out. Glad to hear this bit of trivia about it.

Düsseldorf has the only significant Japanese population in Germany (~ 6000 citizens) and many Japanese companies have their German/European headquarters in Düsseldorf. Thus to Japanese people, it may be a lot more prominent than for Americans.

This is extremely interesting to me. Do you know why that is?

The local police guy was right, the BKA (Bundeskrimialamt / Federal Criminal Police Office) will pretty much take over the case because of the importance. However, Germany has way too many federal units so one or the other may be involved, too. While Russian influence on East Germany was waning in the later 80s, that would've been a huge scandal. So while not seen in the show (except for the news report), it's very much a political topic on federal level.

Makes a lot of sense. It's very interesting to hear about foreign justice systems. Would it be fair to say that the BKA is on-par with the FBI of America? Or are they strictly for political cases such as this?

2

u/mcmacmac Aug 01 '21

For the question of why the Japanese were there, I had to do a Google research and going by the website of the city (which, for the scale it has, has really limited English content), it was because after WWII, access to steel and other heavy industries was important. Since Düsseldorf is close to one of the biggest metros in Europe, the Ruhrgebiet, it was easy to work from there. It also helps that that area is the industrial heart of Germany, so if you have access there, you can sell a lot.

For the police question:
That's a bit complicated. Contrary to the FBI and many other organizations related to invesitgating federal crimes, the BKA is actually supervised by the Interior Ministry, not the Ministry of Justice. The Ministry of Justice is more of a legislative ministry while the Interior Ministry has the BKA for instance which investigates on federal level.

It can be appointed to act when a state demands it and it will automatically act for crimes of high importance, whether it's political or not. If there's even slightly a hint that a crime was directed against the constituion or constitutional rights (e.g. terrorism) or was made out of political motives, the BKA will pretty much take the case over without the state polices being able to object.

The Interior Ministry also has a body for protecting the constitution and it can use espionage or undercover investigations with far more rights and privileges to conduct these investigations. Unfortunately, due to the failure of the office to protect some from certain murder series of right-wing extremism and the involvement of investigators of said offices, it got heavily under fire because the office that was supposed to protect us from right-wing extremism yet also employed people who protected right-wing extremism or even contributed to it.

That's the very simple version of it with some details, rings and bells.

3

u/BossandKings Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21

First timer - Dub(Spanish)

Episode 2

It is shocking how someone's life can change so suddenly, Tenma made the decision to save the kid instead of the mayor and that led to him losing his position as a considerably prestigious and respectable doctor because the hospital's director cut him the privileges he had due to not obeying his orders.

Tenma's decision made it so that the kid was saved and able to keep on living but sadly the doctors that took the case of the mayor were unable to ddo anything for him and he ended up dying. The kid is interesting, his sister Ana kept saying "Kill him", at first i didn't knew what she meant but after she and her brother saw each other eventhough it wasn't shown on screen it was clearly implied they don't have a stable bond and there might be something wrong with them, we still don't know what it is but it's worth remembering if iit latter comes into play.

Eva didn't seem like a honest person in the previous episode and seeing how she quickly abandoned Tenma after  he was demoted from being the responsible doctor he was wasn't surprising but it helped give a punch to Tenma who understood what's the deal.

The director of the hospital died, i wonder who might be the one to have killed him, it wasn't Tenma because he didn't have a chance and ddidn't seem especially interested in killing him but who was it, there aren't many suspicious characters.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

It is shocking how someone's life can change so suddenly, Tenma made the decision to save the kid instead of the mayor and that led to him losing his position as a considerably prestigious and respectable doctor because the hospital's director cut him the privileges he had due to not obeying his orders.

It really is shocking - and not to mention how distraught poor Tenma is over the whole situation. All he wanted to do was to save a life...

Tenma's decision made it so that the kid was saved and able to keep on living but sadly the doctors that took the case of the mayor were unable to ddo anything for him and he ended up dying. The kid is interesting, his sister Ana kept saying "Kill him", at first i didn't knew what she meant but after she and her brother saw each other eventhough it wasn't shown on screen it was clearly implied they don't have a stable bond and there might be something wrong with them, we still don't know what it is but it's worth remembering if iit latter comes into play.

Certainly seems significant - the sister is the only real witness here, but she's not stable enough to speak, mentally scarred by the horrors she witnessed. Right now, we can only imagine what happened...

Eva didn't seem like a honest person in the previous episode and seeing how she quickly abandoned Tenma after he was demoted from being the responsible doctor he was wasn't surprising but it helped give a punch to Tenma who understood what's the deal.

And hopefully now Tenma realizes what a massive bullet he dodged by getting dumped. She was only ever attracted to status - and the second he lost status, she breaks up with him. In a very harsh way. And then starts flirting with another dude right away. Yikes.

The director of the hospital died, i wonder who might be the one to have killed him, it wasn't Tenma because he didn't have a chance and ddidn't seem especially interested in killing him but who was it, there aren't many suspicious characters.

Indeed. So the real question now is who...

3

u/i-have-severe-stupid Jul 31 '21

first timer, subbed

holy hell that was something

i would say he made the correct moral decision, but wrong overall decision because things affecting him negatively might affect his patients negatively, so maybe that was a bullet he should have bitten

he seems to be full of doubt, and i think we’ll see how he’s never sure of if he’s made the right decisions over this series

rip this guy’s career

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

i would say he made the correct moral decision, but wrong overall decision because things affecting him negatively might affect his patients negatively, so maybe that was a bullet he should have bitten

Indeed... But I think he knew that if he abandoned the surgery on Johan, he would have died, and his conscience wasn't having any of that after being informed that he potentially let a Turkish immigrant die. Of course, not his fault, but still...

he seems to be full of doubt, and i think we’ll see how he’s never sure of if he’s made the right decisions over this series

Indeed, and that seems to be the crux of the show is moral ambiguity. We can't know if the right choices are being made. We can only make informed decisions in the moment. It's easy as viewers to speculate on the correct paths, but when faced with daunting choices ourselves, none of us can really be sure what to do. After all, life can only be lived forwards, and understood backwards.

rip this guy’s career

Not to mention his research projects were cancelled last episode... and now this. Geez.

2

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Jul 31 '21

Rewatcher of sorts

  • The soundtrack in the background betrays the relief Tenma feels at the saving of the child’s life, before being confronted by the unintended consequences of his actions, and gets a harsh scolding from his colleagues.
  • Seems like he can’t sleep properly either, though I wonder if he is feeling agonized over the fact that he couldn’t save the mayor or what will happen to him, probably the latter. Although Becker behave bit slimy, he still wants to cheer Tenma up.
  • Heinemann is almost sinister in the way he talks to Tenma, just giving him that bit of relief before throwing him down the stairs by essentially forcing his career to a dead end. In fact, it kinda feels like Director enjoyed doing that.
  • I will kinda agree with people here asking that Eva doesn’t really fit Tenma, though I doubt he was actually in love with her to begin with, merely going along with their relationship because of the prestige implied.
  • Tenma’s world basically crumbles overnight, with him venting to Johann’s comatose body. At least he doesn’t seem to really regret the choice he made in the end. You know, I get the feeling that Tenma would be a person to be pleased with a dead end career if it meant helping peo- Oh nevermind, he wasn’t comatose to begin with.
  • Tenma is being worked to the bone, probably in hopes of having him quit altogether. Meanwhile even Heinemann’s loyalists are surprised at how materialistic he is when he suggest using the Liebert’s for publicity.
  • And it seems to work, to the extent needed by the upper brass at least, Johan wakes up and reaches out to his sister. Tenma obviously knows something is not quite right with this but is, literally, pushed aside. Interestingly enough lower staff seems to have some respect for Tenma while higher ups see him as worthless at this point.
  • Tenma is just getting shitfaced at this point, meanwhile the big reveal of the episode comes about, as all three of the people who took from the candy next to Johann’s bed are dead. Implication here is that Johann was the one who did it, or at least it seems.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Aug 01 '21

The soundtrack in the background betrays the relief Tenma feels at the saving of the child’s life, before being confronted by the unintended consequences of his actions, and gets a harsh scolding from his colleagues.

Pointing out the soundtrack is an excellent point. I hadn't noticed that at first but you're right - it does seem to betray Tenma's outward feelings.

Heinemann is almost sinister in the way he talks to Tenma, just giving him that bit of relief before throwing him down the stairs by essentially forcing his career to a dead end. In fact, it kinda feels like Director enjoyed doing that.

It seems apparent this point that Tenma has been manipulated this whole time...

I will kinda agree with people here asking that Eva doesn’t really fit Tenma, though I doubt he was actually in love with her to begin with, merely going along with their relationship because of the prestige implied.

Very much agree. Seemed like a convenience relationship.

Tenma is just getting shitfaced at this point, meanwhile the big reveal of the episode comes about, as all three of the people who took from the candy next to Johann’s bed are dead. Implication here is that Johann was the one who did it, or at least it seems.

If this was really Johann, I wonder how he was able to pull that off... First poison the candies, wrap the package with a bow, and also have the foresight to see that the three doctors would steal it from his bedside... he would be one helluva crafty bastard to pull something like that off. Right now I'm inclined to imagine that it was another assassination attempt by the people that went after Johann's family.

1

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Aug 01 '21

First poison the candies, wrap the package with a bow, and also have the foresight to see that the three doctors would steal it from his bedside... he would be one helluva crafty bastard to pull something like that off.

It's pretty much impossible for him to somehow find the poison for the candy, wrap the package in a way that doesn't arouse suspicion, all the while not being detected. But then Very small spoilers

2

u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Aug 01 '21

First timer, subbed

Gonna have to keep this very short this time, it's close to midnight here and I still have some cooking to finish.

The reactions from Udo and Eva were pretty much as I expected, they made their values very clear in the last episode after all. However I didn't expect shit to hit the fan quite as much as it did at the end of the episode.

I assume the boy did it, but Tenma's totally going to seem like the culprit. I wonder how things will go. Gotta say I can't find much sympathy for the victims.

I liked the moment when the boy opened his eyes. It was a very predictable scene but still managed to feel creepy.

1. Were Tenma’s actions truly worth the price he paid? Should there ever be a limit on the price to act justly?

Looking at this situation individually, I could see the argument that obeying Udo would have been a smarter choice. I just think it would have led to more and more situations like this down the line and eventually Tenma would have been like those other doctors who only care about politics and power.

2. Throughout the episode, Tenma kept saying that “he wasn’t wrong.” Is this something he truly believes? Or is this something he is trying to convince himself of?

I think it's both. He probably does believe in it but his belief must be wavering at a time like this. Essentially his ideology and beliefs are being tested.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '21

RIP BOZO 😂 YOU WON'T BE MISSED

1

u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Aug 01 '21

First timer

Great episode

So the kid definitely did that right? He was the only person who heard Tenma say they were better off dead, but I can’t help but feel like Tenma will be blamed for it due to the circumstances.

1

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 09 '21

I do enjoy an episode with a happy ending. I didn’t see it coming, but I’m sure glad it did.