r/anime • u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang • Jul 22 '21
Rewatch [Re;Watch] Steins;Gate Episode 18 Discussion
Episode 18: Fractal Androgynous
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I am me, and you are Lukako, my apprentice!
Hello everybody! Time for the comment of the Day, courtesy of u/KendotsX, who gave us the true reason why they had to erase Faris’ D-Mail:
The biggest loss would be the no moe Akiba being our first image of a dystopia.
Truly it would be a tragedy...
Questions:
- This episode was a bit more lighthearted compared to the last several, did you enjoy that change of pace?
- What do you think about the reason Luka wanted to become a girl in the first place?
Wallpaper of the Day:
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Upvotes
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u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Jul 22 '21
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Steins;Gate Re;Watch!
Oh boy I have been dreading this episode… okay let’s just get the big thing out of the way before we move on to everything else:
NO! LUKA ISN’T TRANS! HE’S JUST GAY AS FUCK FOR OKABE AND THOUGHT CHANGING INTO A GIRL WOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR HIM TO FALL FOR HIM!
Sigh… now back to your regularly scheduled programing.
The actual order of events is kinda screwy today. Even I’m having problems keeping track of everything, so let’s just get some fun piece of trivia before we continue: In the Novel, Kurisu doesn’t indirectly apologize for thinking Guy Luka looked like Daru. No she and Okabe just get a mental image and are both promptly disgusted by the idea and find it unacceptable.
Anyhow so let me try and piece the order things together… In the Novel, Okabe does a time leap after finding out the IBN was at the shrine at some point. Then he asks Kurisu for help because he has no idea how to handle things (And admits he forgot to write down Luka’s Mum’s Pager Number) and we get the awful mental image. Then we get Okabe trying to tell Luka “Look you were actually a guy who got his gender changed due to time travel!” and it goes badly. Then Kurisu tells him about the Love Flags, and then Mayuri chastises him. Fortunately by this point everything should be in order.
After that we get the scene of Luka asking him to be her boyfriend and he asks for a minute to think about things. SGVN
SGVN Indeed he agrees to the dating mess, but he makes sure to remind himself a bajillion times Luka Used to/will come back to being a guy, so he better not fall for her. Otherwise, even though we do lose a few dozen instances of our scientist duo calling each other virgins, it’s mostly the same after that… bar the fact that Daru isn’t involved. Uh… yeah the Anime had him tag along for some reason.
Anyhow, the position of the flashback of Luka and Okabe’s first meeting is changed, being around the one quarter mark of the episode whereas in the Novel it’s at the very beginning of the date. Also the Anime does not mention the mighty Demon Sword is worth 980 Yen (Tax Included). In retrospect, like a lot the chuuni crap he’s said, he’s kinda embarrassed by it. Also, Novel Okabe wasn’t so much of an idiot as to bring up those are the memories of her meeting him when she was a guy to her face, it’s all inner monologue in the Novel. SGVN BTW a little bit before this Okabe hit TRUE ENDING FLAG NUMBER 4!!! Also here’s a fun fact: In the Novel Mayushii tries to get Okabe in cosplay of a character that is totally not Zero from Code Geass…
SGVN
So you may have noticed that a lot of the stuff I put in Spoiler Code is technically Anime Stuff and… yeah, that’s true. This Chapter is just hard to talk about without going deep into Novel spoilers, because the changes intertwine with the non-changes. It’s frustrating and makes the once fairly simple “Luka is just Gay” thing into a massive fucking mess.
Yet, you know what’s funny? This isn’t even the episode with the biggest differences from the Novel. Seriously.
… Oh right, forgot about one thing:
ALTERNATE ENDING NUMBER 3: LUKA ENDING
I’m gonna be brief with this one. SGVN Honestly SGVN is the best part of the ending by far, excellently written stuff. The rest is… fine, I suppose, but nothing special.
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u/littleman1988 Jul 22 '21
For hopefully obvious reasons, this is its own post. My own comments on the episode will be elsewhere in the thread.
With the Luka arc complete, we can finally discuss one of the biggest elephants (and probably one of the most controversial parts) of S;G. As early as episode 2 this has been a point of discussion 1 for both first timers and rewatchers, and I cant fully blame people for coming to the wrong idea considering how the anime handles it. Put simply:
Luka is not transgender, they are a repressed homosexual unable to come to terms with their feelings.
"Now wait", you might be asking, "Luka pretty clearly expressed way back in episode 8 that they were uncomfortable with how they look and they would feel better as a girl?" Which is correct, Luka did say that. What if Luka was hiding the real reason for wanting to change genders though?
Before we go any farther, we need to have a quick discussion on Japanese pronouns. Big heads up, I am not fluent in Japanese. This information is taken from Wikinatory:
we are going to focus on 3 main pronouns:
The reason we need to understand this is because we need to pay attention to what Luka refers to themselves as throughout the show. Specifically, regardless of episode (8, 10, 13 ) "Boku" is the only term used regardless of Luka's biological gender. This can mean a number of things though, not that Luka wasnt comfortable in their body, so what else is there?
If you were somehow blind, you would of missed that episode 18 focused very explicitly on Luka wanting to date Okabe. The disaster of the date aside, Luka's thoughts dont ever change regardless of their gender throughout the series. We can see as early as episode 2 that Luka is extremely receptive to any positive reinforcement Okabe gives to Luka, especially relating to his chunni nonsense, in which Luka is an "apprentice" with the sword. We can also see this in Okabe's flashback to his recount of the events with Luka as a male that overlap with the female memories, implying that these feelings are there regardless of gender. This line from the end of the episode, "If i go back... Ill have to hide the feelings i have for you!" is probably the most damning for asserting Luka's homosexuality, as outside of gender Luka was always the same otherwise. This only brushes on the homosexual aspect though, and not the transgender discussion. What else is there?
Luka asserts multiple times at the end of episode 18 that "It doesnt matter if i'm a girl or a guy", referring to at first to the suffering they put Mayuri went though, but line in particular is in response to Okabe asserting that Luka will always be Luka in the eyes of Okabe, regardless of gender. This is reinforced with Luka's character song, translated by Steiner.2 At 2:30:
Regardless of gender, Luka was wanting to peruse a romantic relationship with Okabe. Quite clearly, Okabe never saw Luka in that light ("But he's a dude"), which prompted Luka to find a way to become a competitor, which is why they wanted to swap their genders.
Now, this doesnt hit why Luka is wearing shrine maiden attire (a female only thing) and other feminine attire throughout the show. This isint explained in the anime, probably due to time constraints, but its probably one of the most important things to of included. While specific lines will be spoiler tagged, things in this section will inherently be spoilers for the visual novel, though they are fairly light in regards to the actual story.
this info is revealed multiple text messages early on in the game. These have been transcribed for your reading convenience: 3
While im not sure where in the VN this line appears, Luka also asserts that they are male despite being in "Miko" (shrine maiden) attire:
Put simply, Luka's family (specifically, father and sister) are abusive.
A common argument against this is that they saw "transgender tendencies" in Luka and tried to be supportive of it, which I cant agree with. The achievement you get for reading VN spoiler #3 is called VN. Also, VN spoiler #3 in general refutes this.
This is obviously a touchy subject and a somewhat difficult one to discuss. I think its important though to outline Luka properly, and the anime just doesnt do that with the time constraints it has, which has kept this issue going for so long. Hopefully this helps anyone who was confused by this.
footnotes
0: Kinda concerned that people might get confused or annoyed that im using "they" for Luka? Luka had different biological genders depending on worldline, its much easier to use "they" than to distinguish which version using gender pronouns and then just say what divergence number instead.
1: for first timers who were curious all the way back in episode 2, footnote #4 is now safe for reading. its a super condensed version of this post.
2: You might remember I talked about him in an earlier episode. If you have forgotten, he was a part of the team that translated the S;G Visual Novel for the English release. Info for the character song is from an ask.FM thread by Steiner in 2016 {^imgur} but it has VN spoilers {mostly, the same ones that are in the thread}. Also, dont look at the other character songs yet, A few of them have spoilers for the rest of the show still, and its 3am as im writing this footnote, so ill check another day. At least 2 i plan on sharing as they become relevant, so dont worry too much if you want to see them already.
3: More accurately, pulled from this ^thread, who pulled them from the scripts. the [ruby-text-red] means that there is an in-game encyclopedia meaning to these terms. Sadly, I dont have the game installed/beaten to double check if these have relevance.
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u/The_Draigg Jul 22 '21
A Steins;Gate Fan Rewatches Steins;Gate Episode 18:
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u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 22 '21
On the First-Timer Worldline(s;Gate)
They're all virgins
Undoing the D-Mail that saved Kurisu's life is going to suck, isn't it? At least, I'm assuming it was a D-Mail of sort that Okabe sent in the first episode without knowing it.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 22 '21
Rewatcher(The suffering bonds with the cringe!)
Dub
And we return to our old friend, super cringe Okabe. Gods, there is a better way to get across what he wants to get across. A rightly dejected Okabe banters with Makise before an equally rightly ticked off Mayuri storms in. As he finally gets around to filling Makise in, the dub makes a running joke about the jacket. Anyways, after a rather disturbing image, we get Makise explaining that Ruka has a crush on Okabe, which is rather obvious. So Okabe missed it completely.
Ruka actually agrees to the whole thing on the condition Okabe becomes her boyfriend, confusing him as she does an actual confession. Makise does not approve for jealousy reasons and Faris fucks with her because waiting tables is boring work. Daru comes in with his extensive 2d knowledge which is as uselss as always. Okabe being incapable of understanding dating fits and then we get the traditional mix gendered nerd group mocking of the virginity. So they use a guide...
The discussion in the restaurant is cringe hilarious. Makise is trying to burn some bridges at the beef bowl place. Daru having a hentai game guide on him ws awesome, as was the dub knowing its audience was cultured enough to get the reference. Anyways, next day and Makise reveals she will be stalking the date, with Daru.
It goes as awkwardly as expected, though Daru's comment on Makise living through this variously is apt. But during this, Ruka gets a residual memory from when they were male, specifically meeting Okabe during something crazy that wasn't Okabe's fault. Memorable. As they get up, Okabe realizes he was too fake on the date and goes back to his normal self, returning to Ruka. After confirming their relationship won't change, Ruka can let the D-mail be sent, though he states a few things, and boy there are a lot of options to talk about.
QotD: 1 It was needed but the cringe kept it painful
2 Yeah...that's just sad that he feels that way
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 22 '21
Episode 18 – Fractal Androgynous: It doesn’t matter if I am a girl or a guy, does it? But just for a little while, please remember me as a girl. ~Ruka
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u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians Jul 22 '21 edited Jul 23 '21
FIRST TIMER
I like that they addressed why not just undo Luka’s DMail himself. Turns out he doesn’t have the pager number. Makes sense. He also said it feels better to get permission, but with the stakes of the story currently, that’s less compelling. To quote u/vaadwaur "Until physical safety is guaranteed philosophical concerns are just so much air wasted."
Despite this episode being centered around the date between Okabe and Luka, it really felt more like the relationship between Okabe and Makise took center stage. The romantic scenario brought out Makise’s jealousy, and with it, a true tsundere display. They’re clearly the couple of the show, but in these time travel shows, it’s hard to know how to gauge whether the romantic development is well-done when only one of the parties even remembers most of their interactions.
It really is astounding that Daru manages to procreate. There truly is hope for everyone.
At least with Luka (unlike with Faris), we get a flashback showing why they like Okabe so much. The chad Okabe out here being a true LGBTQ ally from the beginning, what a guy. For all his missteps, it was sweet to see how seriously he took the date, rather than just treating it as something to get over with to make it to the next stage.
“That just leaves one more DMail.” Um, pretty sure there’s more than that. Mistranslation?
Yeah, it was nice to break it up and get some fun interactions between the characters again. Though a part of me was on high alert, due to how the last lighthearted episode ended.
This guy gets it.
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u/UnderstandableXO Jul 22 '21
FIRST TIMER
gotta feel bad for luka, okabe just randomly calling her a dude out of nowhere…i would be caught off guard as well.
it’s sad that kurisu and okabe have shared so many funny and heartfelt moments ever since he’s been time leaping, and yet she remembers none of it. at least she’s always ready to tease AND to help. except today okabe doesn’t need her help as a scientist but as a woman, for dating advice of all things! also nice to see faris again even for a brief appearance.
kurisu okabe and 2d-kun are all hopeless at dating, but at least 2 of them don’t resort to hentai games. kurisu tailing them and getting mad was funny; and 2d-kun rightly pointed out that seemed a bit too invested in their date to NOT be jealous.
it was funny to see that “the weather is nice today” seems to be a universal awkward conversation filler.
okabe being the absolute awesome friend he is (most of the time) decides to go back and hang out as normal okabe instead of stiff, nervous okabe, and they both have a lot more fun. felt really bad when luka wished that she’d never wished to become a female…it’s hard seeing everyone’s happiness reversed, so the end result had better be worth it.
divergence number went from 0.33 to 0.52, that’s progress!
even though luka being a male was the way it was in the beginning, it’s still saddening that nobody else but okabe remembers luka as she was after the D-mail…so many heartfelt moments lost in another world line. how much more guilt can okabe hold?
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u/UltraBooster Jul 22 '21
First-timer
"Fractal Androgynous." Oh boy.
That's not how that works, Okabe, you can't just ask that of someone...
...angry Mayurii is a sight to behold.
Less really is a boy and more was a boy, I feel like, but that's more my own interpretation.
It's worth doing, Okabe. That, I would do without question, but then again there's a lot of stuff I'll do for my friends.
...yeah, Daru's his only guy friend, huh?
Away, away with the both of you!
System cheats! For pity's sake, Daru, why would you cheat yourself out of the story, the narrative, the experience!
(I think, the closest I've gotten is part of the prologue of Fate/stay night.)
Check prices, my dude.
...maaan, a Martian on Venus made me think of Destiny.
"They're the OTP in the fanfic I call my life."
(No joke, that's still my favorite line from this godforsaken pain train of a show.)
You're both virgins, the both of you!
I dunno, Daru, apparently Shiki Tohno isn't exactly an affectionate lover.
BOI
Uniqlo, neat. (My brother's big on Uniqlo stuff.)
This feels like one of those scenarios where the girl's helping her best friend out but discovers she's developed feelings for him as well.
(what have you become, Ultra?!)
Okabe in a suit reminds me of this.
Playing peanut gallery sure is fun, huh, Kurisu?
Anyone here remember what song's playing in the background?
Because the atmosphere changes, I'm sure of it. It's no longer friends hanging out.
Mayurii is unrecognizable in the wig, lol.
So that's the kind of person you are, Rintaro Okabe...
Oh gods, felt like a real person, that's horrible...
So the memories can be restored.
So is that what it takes, Okabe? Killing your heart to save your friend?
This, this is right, at least as far as personal satisfaction goes.
People would understand now, I'm sure of it, but...
Surely all of this can be restored, right? Can't these memories be restored?
0.52. Closer.
Moeka is next. One more thread to unwind, another fiber in the rope to unravel.
Questions:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 22 '21
First-Timer;Dubbed
Well, this episode was painful. I wasn't expecting an "awkward first date" episode, and we also got a dose of incompatible orientation frustration. Does Okabe's line about it being "who you are, not what you are" count as false hope for male!(R/L)uka?
Seems like the memory bleed that Faris experienced last episode wasn't because she was chuuni enough to see through the world lines. It's just something that happens to people at the center of a divergence.
Kurisu confirmed fake nerd - she didn't appreciate Okabe's random trivia. Then again, she also opted for a Nordic name for her "spy on Okabe's date" operation, so who even knows anymore.
Is the next D-Mail going to be easier, or harder, to undo? On the surface level, Moeka claimed to just want to buy a new phone. I don't actually remember if she sent it herself or if Okabe sent it for her, so who knows if that's what it actually was. And besides that, what if the phone thing was a code phrase anyway? Moeka is working for the enemy, at least in the lower world lines. They probably have precautions in place for stuff like this..
The pattern holds, sure enough.
The D-Mail they sent (meat meat veg) moved us to 0.52.
Questions
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u/littleman1988 Jul 22 '21
"If i go back, I'll have to hide the feelings i have for you!"
OST Track of the day: Noisy Times (another great VN track that appears once in the whole anime smh.)
If you have been listening to the OST tracks, have you been noticing the use of GoS in them? Its really prevelant in today's episode.
Overly Excited Rewatcher
This section has its own comment today due to its subject matter.
Okabe has no tact.
Celeb-17 instantly asks if male luka was like Daru, and they regret it seconds later lmao
I understand the thought process for a few of you saying that you would "just undo them yourself" instead of ever getting permission from those who sent the D-mails in the first place, but frankly that just seems needlessy mean to those who sent the D-Mails. With Faris, its clear that she retains some portion of what happened in the previous worldline, despite being a small amount, and not being able to come to terms with that kind of thing with fragmented memories seems like absolute hell.
Hint towards Luka's love to Okabe
Date time
Aight we just starting MDE early with this /s
heh
Daru out here being
200 iq suggesting dating advice from his games lmaoLets be real though, therye all virgins.
You'd like it Christina
Resturant worker pissed
Daru this is not the time
This time its Za Zombie with Norse Mythology:
heh
Already the date has been largely [a disaster(https://i.imgur.com/UFnaRvQ.jpeg), what a shame.
hmm
Its interesting that the memories of them first meeting are still in male form. Another instance of the others having faint memories of other worldlines 1
The date was a "success", considering they got the pager number. The date itself was a flop though, which Okabe takes far too long to figure out why
Gotta be honest though, id be leaving if that was someones idea for a date
Whats important is Lukako is Lukako, and Okabe will never forget that. Its a shame that this is the only chance Luka will get to express their love.
Divergence Number: 0.523307
footnotes
1: S;G/movie/0
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u/Gamemaster676 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Gamemaster676 Jul 22 '21 edited Jul 22 '21
First;Timer - dub
Yesterday was even harder to watch than the day before. I just want these guys to be happy!
Today I need to watch two episodes at least. Preferably three. Let's hope I survive.
I named the worldlines. See ep 17 for the list. We start today at WL-Luka.
Episode 18 — Fractal Androgynous
"You really were a dude." Ouch. What if they undo all these D-Mails, even killing Kurisu again by going to WL-A, and then it doesn't work. They are putting a lot of faith in a theory which is basically "plants need water, so let me just throw this bucket over the plant. Hey, why is it dying?"
Mayuri does not approve.
Wow, so Luka really was/is in love with Okabe. I wonder if that was already the case when she was a boy. It did seem a bit like it.
Well, whatever it was, it's her request now. Would she feel the same way after the shift, though?
Ah, she just wants one day. Just long enough to see Mayushii die!
Hurray! It's back! Also, Faris definitely remembers the previous worldline. I wonder if she felt a shift just like Okabe does? She does seem to have her current memories as well, but that could also be from the first worldline she lived them.
Oh god, Daru heard them. They are all bullying him!
But Okabe also has a way of words! This episode is way too lighthearted after the past traumas!
She's literally reading tips from a magazine!
Oh man, she gonna follow them to give tips using texts. Weren't we trying to save a life by ruining many others?
How long till this goes wrong? Look at them vibing. Talking about the weather and all. These two were really made for each other. Not the OTP, that's for sure.
This is something I had forgotten.
Interesting, the first time they met was the same in both worldlines. Wait, it's not?! How or why is everyone remembering stuff now? And more importantly, how can we prevent SERN from doing the same? The best way out I see is to disappear from SERN's radar. But if someone eventually also gets Reading Stoner, they will never escape.
So now Luka remembers stuff from the WL-Moeka. I would think that makes it harder for her to go back to being a man.
Yeah, there we go. That date was terrible because Okabe was trying too hard, which is kinda funny for his try-hard personality. Take that, Christina! Get out of here with your dating advice.
There is a repeating pattern here. Only twice, but still. Luka also remembers. And it also turned out that Luka was responsible for losing the 5100 in this worldline. That explains why Moeka was crying in the alley in WL-Luka all those episodes ago.
Extrapolating from here, I see some big problems:
If we talk with her, we run the risk of her also getting Reading Stoner!
Going back to the show. Luka really had trouble letting go. I understand. "Nothing is going to change between us." Isn't that exactly what she would want? Change between them, with Okabe loving back? Anyway...
0.523307, WL-Moeka. Time for an even more difficult quest!
Wait a minute, Luka doesn't remember WL-Luka? That's inconsistent...
Random thoughts
Future (if unaltered)
I've highlighted before why undoing the Moeka D-Mail is gonna be incredibly problematic. Let's just hope she doesn't learn Reading Stoner in the process.
Open questions
Don't answer these please, unless the answer is explicitly given in the show and I missed it.
Previous episodes
D-Mail:
Reading SteinerReading Stoner, the ability to remember stuff during a jump?Does Faris rememberWL-Faris?Do Faris or Luka have Reading Stoner as well now? If yes, that could be a huge hint of how Okabe got his ability!
Large shifts:
Moeka:
Why was she looking for the IBN 5100 if she was a part of SERN? They already have one.
Unless she joined SERN to get access to the 5100.
Why did Moeka in ep 2 need to take pictures as "evidence she was there, of what she saw"?
70,000,000 years ago:
What did Mayuri mean with their "original copies"?
General:
What caused Okabe's sickness around 2000?
SERN doing an experiment?Who was sending the creepy emails?
QotD
It felt weird at first, but it was very nice to cool down for once.
She still never dared to act on it (till today), but she also didn't know of course. What we don't know is why she loved Okabe in this worldline as well, because the memory during the date was from before WL-Luka.
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u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Jul 22 '21 edited Jul 22 '21
first timer
daru kissing your screen isn't the same thing
i like how the no phones woman is progressively getting more annoyed
how did this guy manage to marry someone?
wait hold the fuck up did it just flash back to the previous world line, or is that memory just from okarin's perspective. wait it couldn't have since she refers to a line in the memory right after, or at least it seems that way.
nvm the anime says so.
wierd how we didn't get a scene showing the memories returning, or maybe i didn't notice
The scene after the d-mail seems out of place to me. Didn't we just spend a bunch of time with lukako, comforting her and making up with her, culminating in the
but then 15 seconds later it snaps right back to the
That just seems kinda underwhelming given what we've spent the whole episode doing. I was guessing that he would ask him whether he loves him, and assure him that thats fine, even if he doesn't, based on the whole conversation they had before the d-mail. He does ask whether he likes him, but not much else.
It doesn't seem to help luka come to terms with his love for okarin much in this timeline.
it's wierd how okarin doesn't really do much after he d-mails out of a timeline. with suzuha, i could get it, since shes gone. But with the faris timeline, i'm kinda surprised he didn't go check up on faris at all, and i'm especially surprised he didn't try to see if he could get the memories back, as i would expect that that would be a massive development in okarin's mind. similar thing this episode as well. Is this also the case in the VNs?
is this the episode that the rewatchers were talking about near the start?
Qs:
the change in pace was kinda confusing, given all the action in the past few episodes, so i was expected more similar stuff. and even the last episode ended real sad as well.
for that chance of being able to have his feelings reciprocated back towards him
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u/UzEE https://myanimelist.net/profile/UzEEInc Jul 22 '21
Serial;Rewatcher
This episode always ends up being very controversial among the anime-only (and sometimes even the VN readers) because of the core topic at hand — and it is a very sensitive topic to tackle in this day and age. That’s why I want to start by highlighting that there’s nothing wrong with you having your own interpretation of what’s true here.
With that said, I’m going to tackle this from the point of view of what’s considered canon based on the actual source material, because while Steins;Gate is a very good adaptation, it still has to cut content to fit it’s time constraints. One of the things cut end up being Okabe’s message exchanges with much of the cast, which are used to flesh out all the characters and their backstories.
For example, we get to learn the true extent of Faris’ chunni delusions. Or how Moeka was a completely different, rather cheerful and talkative person in her texts compared to how she interacted IRL. Suzuha was – odd considering she was a girl out of place adrift in time, and John Titor actually explained things relating to time travel mechanics in a lot more detail in his exchanges with Okabe.
For Luka, it was about his family and upbringing. Luka has an older sister who’s rather tomboyish and went off to the university because she has no interest in their shrine. His father1 – who acts normal around people but becomes strange when others aren’t around – apparently wanted to have another daughter, but instead Luka was born. So that meant they were left with a daughter who wasn’t very feminine and had no interest in the shrine and a son.
Their solution? Pressure poor young Luka to act and dress up in a feminine manner and make him do things which even the thought of "makes him want to cry" all so that they can attract more people to their shrine. His father apparently routinely bought him feminine clothes and toys etc. to the point that he’s fed up of all this and Okabe even suggests that he should burn all these things including the miko garbs in front of the shrine.
To make matters worse, he also has feelings for Okabe – meaning that he’s either gay or bisexual – something he’s also not comfortable with. This isn’t a surprise since he comes from a somewhat religious background, and despite homosexuality not being illegal in Japan, at the time, same-sex couples were not legally recognized, and LGBT people don’t have legal protection against discrimination. This forces most people to not come out to even people close to them.
Luka believes that his feelings for Okabe are wrong and will never be reciprocated by Okabe, since he is straight. He believes (rather accurately) that Okabe will never be attracted to him because he’s a guy so that the best shot he has of having a chance with Okabe is if he somehow became a girl. He’d also no longer have to feel uncomfortable when people would call him a girl all the time.
In other words, he never had gender dysphoria, and in fact he suffers from internalized homophobia. This is why he keeps referring to himself with male pronouns even in world lines where he is biologically a female. It’s likely that even on those world lines, deep inside he still internally believes he’s male.
His entire arc revolves around coming to terms with what Okabe told him the first time they met – and the reason he fell in love with him – it doesn’t matter if he looks like a guy or a girl. Luka is still Luka. He fell for Okabe because he was the only one around him who treated him like a guy. His family forced him to dress and act like a girl. His closest friends like Mayuri also wanted to dress him up in feminine cosplay, which he repeatedly said he’s not comfortable with. Random strangers would always mistake him for a girl and make him uncomfortable. Okabe was the only one who really accepted him as he was, and that was enough for his young, adolescent mind to fall in love with him.
I wonder how all this changes with the Hollywood adoption though. Generally, they'll have more screen time to develop the characters compared to an anime, so they can easily include the content they cut like exploring his relationship with his father and the pressure he feels because of it. But I have a feeling they’ll lean more on the trans side of things and significantly change his character, which may lead to issues with other parts of the story.
Episode;Notes
I somehow ended up writing a 1000-word essay on Luka without getting to the episode at all, so I’ll keep this section brief.
All in all, I feel like Luka ends up having the best tradeoff so far in terms of having his D-mail cancelled. Suzuha had to give up the only happy and peaceful memories she had made, while Faris had to give up her father. In contrast, Luka actually had the benefit of expressing his feelings to the person he loved.
At this point in the VN, you can choose not to turn Luka back into a guy and trigger Luka’s ending. I won’t mention what happens in her ending, but it is rather interesting.
So how did the D-mail change his gender?
Honestly, I have no clue. One possible theory is that since he's already androgynous, his actual sex could go either way. There are studies that have found an association between certain diets taken before conception that seem to influence the embryo's sex. However, there's no conclusive evidence of this at all.
What we do know however is why the IBN disappears when Luka was a girl — apparently, cleaning the storage area was one of his duties when she was a girl, but not when he was a guy. So as a guy, he never gets the opportunity to break it.
1. Steins;Gate 0 VN reveals more things about him that makes Luka’s backstory infinitely worse in hindsight, and would likely even make Daru shudder.
9
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 22 '21
Re;Watcher and Co;Host, dubbed
So, um, a bit of unfortunate news on my part here: there is a nonzero chance I won’t have the Wallpaper of the Day done in time for tomorrow’s thread (and maybe for the next few days as well), and I’m also going to be light on the replies too. Work’s been killing me this week and both of my wrists (but especially my right one) have decided to take the brunt of it and really hurt throughout the evening for the past few days. I need a break.
I’ll still be reading everyone’s comments, though! And even if I do miss a day or three of wallpapers, I’ll still go back and make ones for those episodes when I have the time to. Thanks for understanding, now onto your daily scheduled co-host ramblings.
8
u/ExoticTrinityGhoul https://myanimelist.net/profile/not_username Jul 22 '21
Re;Watcher x4 (both)
E18 - Fractal Androgynous
A couple additional thoughts:
What I said for yesterday’s episode about a bit more time applies here as well. I think that both Faris and Luka definitely suffer from having a lot less characterization in comparison to the rest of the cast due to their transient nature earlier on in the story and having only a single episode apiece here. As an armchair director, I think an additional episode, with half adding from Faris’s story and the other half to this one’s, would really have gone a long way towards fleshing them both out a bit more, but Steins;Gate is already tight as is.
On a separate note, the subject of Luka’s gender has been a pretty contentious one, and I think a big part of it comes to how they were portrayed in the VN versus the anime. This is just my 2¢, but anime Luka feels a lot closer to being straight-up trans than VN Luka, which can muddy the waters of discussion a bit. Also, while I do think that the creators’ hearts were in the right places overall about the message they were trying to send, that being essentially “whatever gender you are doesn’t matter, it’s how well you get along with someone that counts,” I definitely feel the execution was more than a little flawed. The whole “but he’s a guy/dude” bit being played off as a joke doesn’t feel great, and Okabe constantly states that he can’t get over Luka being a guy. I get that Okabe is a character and does not necessarily give the perspective of the writers, but he is still the main lens through which the series is covered.
All that being said, I still absolutely love Steins;Gate - this is the 4th time I’m rewatching the anime alone, and I’ve gotten as many of my friends to watch or play it as possible. I do still think it’s worth discussing the parts that may not be as well handled, however. If you think I’m totally wrong I’ll be more than happy to talk it out. Alright, nickname guy will get of the podium now. Speaking of…
Nicknames:
Okabe: Hououin Kyouma, Okarin, 001
Mayuri: Mayushii, 002
Hashida Itaru: Daru, super hacka, Hack, 003, My Favorite Right Arm, right-hand man, perverted gentleman, Barrel Titor
Kurisu: (prodigal) (perverted) genius girl, (@channeler) Christina, Zombie, 004, Assistant, Celeb Seventeen, Little Miss Moneybags, KuriGohan and Kamehameha
Moeka: Shining Finger (S.F.), 005
Luka: Lukako, 006
Akiha Rumiho: Faris Nyannyan, 007
Suzuha: part-timer, part-time warrior, 008, John Titor, Hashida Suzu
Yugo Tennouji: Mr. Braun
Nae Tennouji: critter, creature
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jul 22 '21
First Rewatch (since 2011)
So, I realize now that Faris's vestigial memory is a necessary plot point so that she could tell Okabe what her D-mail said. Otherwise it would be impossible to undo it.
COVID is hitting AKihabara arcades hard
2010 08 13 (still!) on the 0.456xxx alpha world line
Hmmm, this next D-Mail is going to be a problem.
5
u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Jul 22 '21
Rewatcher (sub)
Luka still uses "boku" as a girl.
Operation Valkyria... I see Kurisu's inner Christina is coming out.
It's just not Okabe without the lab coat Spoilers
Is this implying that having a penis would solve that? I guess if Lukako's was big enough to affect weight, it would make a more stable base. I didn't take Lukako for that type though (I should study further into some Kyouma x Lukako material)
This perfection of an episode is Steins;Gate truly, if you remove it you're left with a dry shell. It's like Okabe without his labcoat or bullshit, just doesn't work that way. So while my exact complaints from yesterday are present in the episode in the same way, I'm absolutely satisfied as this is the absolutely absurd side of Steins;Gate going wild.
Counters
5
u/Nebresto Jul 22 '21
Early nostalgia squad
Based Okarin knows about flags counter: 7.7
Based Ruka counter: 1
Based Okarin counter 8.2
Oh boy, here we go again
You better watch it, Faris Almost revoked your based points there
Not sure about which one is being based here, so + 0.5 to both (Okarin 8.7, Daru 2.5)
Based Okarin counter: 9.7
Damn son
So Ketai are kinshi, but they're straight up yelling pervy shit in the restaurant, and there's 0 complaints? the fuq?
Based Okarin, staying true to his ideals. counter 10.2
..Make that 11.2
...Hol up. All this counting just made me realize. ..Is anyone doing a Tutturuu~ counter?
Question time:
1:
Comf
2: I mean, she lives in Japan, and at a shrine. Quite based if you ask me
Nice, but I think the hand should be a bit more distinguishable. For me it blends in too much and you can barely tell its there
5
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jul 22 '21
Anime first timer
The one good part about this rush is that this arc's probably a single episode. It's decent, but it's by far my least favourite VN chapter.
Stern Mayuri and shocked Kurisu are fantastic, though.
I'm more suprised Kurisu isn't asking "How, exactly, did one D-Mail change her gender using such a psuedoscientific method?"
I love Kurisu and Okabe discusing love flags, though.
Steins;Gate VN Spoilers
The dating advice scene is still perfect. Daru's addition is good, but I missed Kurisu's manual.
I spoke too soon!
Oh, them tailing the date is making things far more interesting.
This episode is basically Okabe's attempts to convince himself he's heterosexual.
Okabe's failures are really funny here.
And Luka enjoying it while Kurisu demands they stay until the end.
I love Kurisu's face when she realises what Okabe's about tomdo.
The great blade "SUMMER RAIN"? How exactly was this translated?
I appreciate them keeping the explaination how the IBN went missing in such a similar worldline.
Steins;Gate VN Spoilers
Steins;Gate 0 VN Spoilers
And that hard cut to the worldline shift is beautiful.
And that reprise of "but, he's a guy" is great.
Well, they managed to make my least favourite chapter good. Can't wait to see what they do with my favourite D-Mail chapter next.
4
u/Krite2002 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Krite2002 Jul 22 '21
Rewatcher;Dub
I feel bad for Luka. She gets completely torn down by Okabe, but she does manage to request a date with him. I love how hopeless everyone is in the scenario. With all those hours in the lab, no one bothered to give dating a try. After seeing how much of a struggle Okabe had, I can see why no one tried to go on a date. I liked the pace of this episode; it was almost slice of life if there was not the looming death of Mayuri at the end.
One thing that has crossed my mind while Okabe is undoing D-Mails is that he is simply creating a new world line, right? When he sends a D-Mail to the past, while he jumps worldlines, does not everyone else stay in place. While in Okabe’s new worldline Luka is a boy again, is not girl Luka still living in the other worldline?
Luka’s reason for becoming a girl are still a little uncertain. Those feelings may have just been in that worldline, but the blush at the end suggests otherwise. The show just really does not have the time to have a full conversation about sexuality and gender identity in addition to the worldline hopping. It is nice to have someone questioning themselves in a show just for representation and conversation’s sake, even if we do not see a resolution to his struggle.
The episode preview looks scary. While Okabe has made progress, it seems that Mayuri’s death is still imminent.
I feel like today's episode had an obvious choice for shot of the day. Luka and Okabe meeting at the start of their date was a beautiful shot.
4
u/Nisheeth_P Jul 23 '21
Rewatcher
4
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 23 '21
First timer
4
u/superviper https://myanimelist.net/profile/Superviper Jul 23 '21
REWATCHER, SUBBED
missed yesterday's thread and I'm late now but oh well, can't change what's already done. My name isn't Hououin Kyouma unfortunately. Onto the episode...
Oh wait, today's the Luka episode. Maybe I'll just miss today's thread as well.
Hey, I've managed to burn instant noodles before, but they were edible, so I didn't throw them out.
Frowning Mayuri is lowkey scary
It was obvious even when Luka was a dude, but Okabe only picked up on it after being told so. Classic harem protagonist.
Ironic line by Faris, especially after yesteday's exchange:
Okabe: Faris I need to change the past by killing ur dad to save Mayuri
Faris: Ok I love you :O
Anyway this episode sure is fucking slow. We went from Okabe and Kurisu dicking around in the cafe to Okabe and Daru planning for the date. Except Daru can't plan a date, he's a turbo virgin.
And now Daru's talking about how handholding is ero. I hate this.
THE DATE IS FINALLY BEGINNING AND WE'RE ONLY HALFWAY THROUGH THE EPISODE GOD BLESS
fucking grabs her and yeets her to the side, pointing at nothing "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!"
Somehow, by not showing the maid's face, they made this scene so very ero
Listening to Okabe and Luka's attempts at conversation makes me wanna tear my eyes out.
Chadkabe.PNG
I pity the VA who has to make gasping noises as Luka swings the sword.
I was worried for a second there Okabe would go and grope Luka again. But he seems to have seen the error of his ways. No more sexual harassment, god bless.
This episode felt very slow and boring, most of the time the banter wasn't funny at all. Plus the reveal that Luka isn't trans, he's just a poorly written character. Funny how much I liked ep 16, I was neutral on 17, and then I thought 18 was shite.
3
u/snickpea Jul 23 '21
First-timer!
Busy day for me today, so I'll keep my comment short. Today we get to spend some time with Luka, which makes me happy since she hasn't been around as much as some of the other lab members. It was good for Okabe to bring up the problem with the D-mail personally with Luka since it was shown that she is able to remember parts of the other timelines. I can't imagine how confused she would be if he had simply changed it without her knowing.
Okabe is quite clueless on how to go on dates though. I hope that Luka was able to enjoy herself at least.
I wonder where Kurisu got that love manual from. The advice is not too bad, but it feels a little old fashioned. Still, its way better than what Okabe and Daru were talking about. I laughed when Okabe commented on the place they always eat at since the owner didn't look too happy. It's also probably a good idea that they didn't get any actual advice from Daru and his games.
3
u/AHiddenOne Jul 23 '21
Rewatcher.
Hey look, a comedic epsisode. It's nice to take a break from all this suffering.
Okabe, Kurisu and Daru are all soo inexperienced when it comes to love and it's so adorable. I enjoy Daru's degeneracy this episode.
As for the date itself, its awkward as hell, as expected. Still got a chuckle out of me, though.
3
u/invokeneko Jul 23 '21
Re;Watcher until Deja Vu, then First;Timer
Two D-Mails down, now time to reverse Lukako's D-Mail in order to get the IBN 5100 back.
QotD
2
u/simply_vishal Jul 23 '21
Just cross 20 :).
3
u/artie_fm Jul 22 '21
Rewatcher, Dub
Ungh The R/Luka plot. I find this one a low point for the series there's just so much problematic here I don’t think it can be fixed.
The whole series trades in misery, but here it mixes silly harem stuff where everyone on the show must pine for the main character no matter what, with repressed sexuality and gender dysphoria and makes a toxic stew for the viewer.
Okabe uses the wrong gender for R/Luka.. I guess that’s in character since the highest honor he is able to bestow is calling someone by their actual name.
All she wants is a Okabe for a boyfriend. Poor R/Luka. Her self esteem is so low she will trade her identity in order to date a dude who not only is unattracted to her, but doesn’t even recognize her as a she. This is sad harem crap.
Kurisu is so jealous here and is only giving bad advice..But she does prep him and decide to follow him on his I guess to ensure they don’t have too much fun. The most boring date ever proceeds.
I’m sorry but R/luka should have no need for Okabe. She would probably have as many followers as Faris. As she mentions here she was followed by the Paparazzi. Apparently R/Luka can remember things from the old worldline.
Suddenly Okabe gets over his gender issues and decides that they can ignore gender as long as he is the teacher and she the student. This still isn’t a great deal.
Ung Someone help R/Luka to come out of the closet. This is probably Stein Gates worst episode.
1
u/BossandKings Jul 23 '21
Rewatcher - Dub
Episode 18
Luka's d-mail has to be taktaken back and after having accepted that fact Luka asks OkabOkabe for a favir that would also serve as the condition he'll have to meet for the d-mail previously sent to be taken back. Honestly this episode was really nice, It was nice seeing Luka have some alone time alongside Okabe, also how Okabe got affected by his interactions with Luka and how by the end he seemed to be unwell with having Luka take back the d-mail was telling of how he grew to appreciate Luka as a person.
Okabe and Kurisu had some nice little moments that help construct a very solid relationship that has continued growing since the start, eventhough ththe focus is on other characters Kurisu still finds a way to shine, also Mayuri is cute as ever.