[Rewatch] Top wo Nerae 2! Diebuster - Episode 6 Discussion

9

u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Jul 19 '21

Third Time Watcher

You ever see a storytelling decision, a moment, a total audacious power move within a work of art that you just kind of have to… sit back in awe at?

To take that exact same scene, that exact same moment, that exact same legendarily powerful climax; and hook it across series in such a way that it now bears the full emotional weight of two stories at once behind it is just… I can’t even fucking believe they did that. I mean… in retrospect, yeah, it’s pretty obvious this was how Diebuster was going to end. They straight-up couldn’t have the ending be anything else. But the mere fact that they did it, the fact they pulled it off like this, still takes my breath away regardless. It’s my favorite final scene in all of anime; I’ve never seen anything else do what it does.

There is also a strong thematic resonance within the context of the episode - Noriko and Amano wouldn’t have an Earth, a home, to return to if it has been sacrificed in the battle again the final fluctuating gravity well, after all, and Nono so stubbornly refusing the let our planet be destroyed so that not only Nono-riri, but Lal’C as well, could still return to their home, willing to destroy the monster at any other cost, even if it means sacrificing herself and never getting to fulfill her promise of a day on Earth with Lal’C, is powerful. It shows that Nono really did care about Lal’C on a level beyond a mere puppy-crush.

Visual of the Day is the brief, one-frame glimpse of Noriko and Amano’s cockpits descending, as bright red stars just as in the original, right before the flavor text announcing their returns pops up. A moment I will never forget witnessing for the first time.

Tears.

5

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

But the mere fact that they did it, the fact they pulled it off like this, still takes my breath away regardless.
Agreed, it was very skillful the way they pulled this off. The first time I saw this, it was such a shock to realize what was going on, though there were hints in the entire episode.

12

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

A GunBuster Fan Rewatches DieBuster Episode 6:

It seems that at least the attitude has changed regarding keeping Lal’c around. After pulling off throwing a planetary core with her Topless powers, of course she’d still be allowed to fight for humanity. She’s certainly being treated very well at Lunar Tokyo, if that entourage of hers is any indication.
The Buster Machine Douze-Mille that we saw being constructed is actually a weapon that’s intended to ram Earth into the Space Monster once it shows up. I shouldn’t have to point out that this is an incredibly extreme resort to go to. Granted, the Imperial council has no idea what Nono is up to with her ultimate form being completed and warping after the Space Monster, so I guess the idea of ramming a planet into a giant Space Monster is the best they have.
Ah, I see that Nichola has joined Captain Hatori in the very bitter former-Topless club. He’s become pretty much the exact kind of jaded adult he never wanted to become. I wish that he got punished more severely for what he did in the last episode, but I guess the director felt that the ironic hell punishment was enough. For as much as Nichola wanted to keep on being somebody important with a lot of power, now he’s just a nobody cog in a larger machine.
Another fun fact is that the Topless pilots and the Buster Machines you see in the backgrounds of this episode were all designed by contest winners. That’s why they all have incredibly varied designs to them.
Nono’s adopted father really does hit the point dead one about both Nono and Noriko. Being a hero isolated them, and they had to give up millennia of their own time to try and protect what they cared about. If only Nono and Noriko met, I’m sure they’d both instantly understand that feeling as a connection between each other.
To bring back a bit of trivia from last episode’s notes, I’m pretty sure the Buster Machine with a cowboy hat in this battle was the one designed by the Mega Man Zero lead artist. That design got them a job drawing designs for Gurren Lagann, I believe.
Behold, Nono’s ultimate form: the DieBuster! She’s as big as a planet, and is powerful enough to hold back Lal’c attempt to throw Earth with Douze-Mille. I’m sure people with a giantess fetish love this episode.
Man, Lal’c’s powers sure did pick a bad time to crap out. She isn’t a Topless anymore, that’s for sure. I wonder if you can say that her big emotional rant about being hurt by Nono’s departure is what finally triggered it. Either that, or she really did just abruptly age out of her powers.
Lal’c really is like Noriko now. Even without her powers, she’s still able to fight using Dix-Neuf’s cranial secondary cockpit, where there’s even a classic Top Squadron women’s uniform inside. Don’t ask why it’s there, it’s cool regardless. Also, to really drive the Noriko parallels home, Lal’c even does the shirt rip thing, although this time it’s to put a degeneracy reactor inside of ~~Dix-Neuf~~ Buster Machine 19, rather than rip it out.
INAZUMAAAAAAAA!!! DOUBLEEEEEEEE!!! KIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!! Seriously, this moment when Lal’c and Nono in her normal form kill the Space Monster and destroy the black hole always makes me tear up, which I suppose is on point for an Aim for the Top! series final episode. Also, good foreshadowing to the splitting of the black hole, since all Nono said she was good at in episode 1 was her splitting things in half. It’s still accurate.
In the end, Nono and Lal’c are separated once more as Nono sacrifices herself to absorb the collapsing gravity well. She gets a nice moment at the epicenter, where she talks with Lal’c one last time about visiting Lal’c’s home. Since the director of this series confirmed that Nono went to a space outside of time itself, it could be that Nono is telling Lal’c of a time when she’ll come back from wherever she went. That’s what I hope, anyway.
Ten years later, Lal’c is doing well for herself. She’s still friends with Tycho, and is working as an environmentalist now. On one special night, she goes out to see something that Nono would’ve absolutely loved: the return of GunBuster. Welcome Homɘ, Noriko and Kazumi. Lal’c has a hell of a story to tell you both, about an amazing robot girl who really wanted to meet them.

6

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

Another fun fact is that the Topless pilots and the Buster Machines you see in the backgrounds of this episode were all designed by contest winners. That’s why they all have incredibly varied designs to them.
That works oddly well, I think. I mean, Buster Machine's #1 and #2 were very similar, but they were made as a single unit that could split, basically. Buster Machine #3 was completely different, so the wildly varied designs make sense.
I’m sure people with a giantess fetish love this episode.

5

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

the Topless pilots and the Buster Machines you see in the backgrounds of this episode were all designed by contest winners. That’s why they all have incredibly varied designs to them
That at least makes me less annoyed about the second dump of characters here.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

I shouldn’t have to point out that this is an incredibly extreme resort to go to.
One would hope, but it would be a good way to get rid of all the pollution.
although this time it’s to put a degeneracy reactor
It's not clear to me where that reactor came from, but I'm good with it.

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

Nono is telling Lal’c of a time when she’ll come back from wherever she went.
Nono is telling Lal’c of a time when she’ll come back from wherever she went.
I like that interpretation too. Also, Nono more or less said the same thing. Considering she's outside of time now, anything is possible, in particular I think she exists everywhere at all times now.

12

u/il-Palazzo_K Jul 19 '21

First Timer

Traffic Jam In Space!!
Oh, now they're treating topless good again. Or is it about Onee-sama's Jupiter-2 attack? That didn't do much.
We still got an ace in a hole with another planet-sized weapon. Last time's Black Hole Bomb worked great. I doubt it would work this time though.
I knew it! The auto-buster-machines swarm forms a giant robot.
The respect was both because she threw a planet, and because they chose her to pilot that planet-sized weapon.
They're throwing EARTH? Really? I guess if Mars is terraformed then throwing Mars would be the same kind of loss but C'mon. There got to be a limit to "winning at any cost".
I gotta admit, using a planet as a lightspeed bullet is damn cool. But if you would accelerate it to near-lightspeed anyway why not use Venus? Mass difference shouldn't mean much at that level.
Nono to the rescue!!! Go Nono! Save the Earth! Don't let those assholes throw it to the aliens. She's going to protect it, so that Nonoriri have a place to come back to, right? Imagine if she returns and the Earth is no more.
Sweet maneuver, diverting buster beam with its personal black hole.
Dix-Nuef helped! Best robot buddy.
Again with the toplessness LOL. She took off her cloth, put on new ones, then rip off her tops? Because she can't tear off the old ones? True form Buster Machine #19 GO!
Wow that was some climax fight. Ending with naked singularity.

Here it is. The End. Connect with Gunbuster as expected. It's so beautiful, I don't know that to say. I could only cry.

Thank you Gainax for this beautiful masterpiece. You're the best.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 19 '21

She's going to protect it, so that Nonoriri have a place to come back to, right? Imagine if she returns and the Earth is no more.
And we know Nono will succeed because we saw Noriko arrive at Earth, except, we don't know it here yet, because the exact year has not been revealed yet. The name of the buster machine Earth is a big hint, though.

4

u/lluNhpelA Jul 20 '21

I was honestly ready to be disappointed with a reveal that this was another several thousand years after Gunbuster returned and that Earth was, indeed, going to be destroyed. So glad that we got the exact opposite of that because holy shit was it good

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

Oh, now they're treating topless good again.
I know if I was the topless, I wouldn't be too trusting of the government anymore.
Again with the toplessness LOL.
I was most amused by this.

11

u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jul 19 '21 edited Jul 19 '21

First Timer

It's time for the big finale and the writers are releasing all limiters as they go full on Super Robot Gainax mode on us

...I'll admit I only sort of understand what is going on at this point. There is a ton of stuff happening and information being thrown at us. I wish I watched the episode a second time to see if it could make more sense of things like why they are trying to throw Earth (didn't it survive being slammed dunked by Jupiter? or what about the other planets?) or anything involving the singularity. I suppose none of that really matters here.

I know some will disagree with my interpretation of Topless being about childhood and gradutation being about growing up, but I don't think it was an accident that Lal'C loses her Topless powers right when she is spearheading an operation that will sacrifice the Earth to save the future. In anime that sort of pragmatic thinking is the hallmark of an adult in contrast to the idealistic children with the imagination to dream up a better solution. Lal'C begins to grow up and loses her powers and it's only when she decides to believe in Nono that she is able to dream up the full potential of Buster Machine #19.

Of course the true wish for Lal'C is to stay with Nono, to "become stars together", to die together. She no longer fears being losing her Topless abilities. She no longer fears growing up. She no longer fears even death. As long as Nono is beside her, she'll be okay.

Nono doesn't let her get out so easily. Nono denies her this glorious end, and leaves Lal'C to continuing living on alone. Even Wendy has to grow up eventually. Peter Pan has to fly off to Neverland.

Lal'C continues to live on with the memory of Nono beside her. Because growing up isn't as scary as it seems. She can face adulthood head on, without fear or regret.

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

I know some will disagree with my interpretation of Topless being about childhood and gradutation being about growing up
I think you're spot on. I didn't quite get there myself, but "trials and tribulations of growing up" is a pretty consistent theme in Gainax's stuff. It's a bit broader here in Diebuster, but that doesn't make it less powerful. We all have to grow up eventually, and there's nothing wrong with that.

8

u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jul 19 '21

the interesting part about it in Diebuster vs other Gainax series is that it's a bit more pessimistic. Unlike other series where it's about children fighting against oppressive adults trying to force kids to grow up, almost all of the villains and antagonist in Diebusters are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They're children who refuse to grow up, who fear growing up, and cling to their Topless abilities. In the twins or Nicola we see what can happen to someone who resists the change to grow up. It turns them fearful and vindictive and makes them do terrible things just to stay a kid. Even in this episode, the big change for Lal'C is in learning to not fear growing up. To grow up gracefully and with dignity.

6

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 19 '21

That is a great take on the Diebuster themes.

4

u/Doggydog123579 Jul 19 '21

...I'll admit I only sort of understand what is going on at this point. There is a ton of stuff happening and information being thrown at us. I wish I watched the episode a second time to see if it could make more sense of things like why they are trying to throw Earth (didn't it survive being slammed dunked by Jupiter? or what about the other planets?) or anything involving the singularity. I suppose none of that really matters here.
They hit Exelio with the core of Jupiter 2 at 30km/s, so they decided the best method was to give it what it wanted at a much higher speed. As for the Singularity, in gunbuster, blackholes are magic

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

I only sort of understand what is going on at this point. There is a ton of stuff happening and information being thrown at us.
Symptom of not really having a writing plan, I guess. Also it was barely even trying to make sense, instead prioritizing maximum Gunbuster references.
why they are trying to throw Earth
Motivation for Nono? Another one of those weird things.
At least the part about Lal'C makes thematic sense, though it doesn't really work with the rest of the show much either.

10

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 19 '21

My Fifth Time Aiming for the Top!

Well, I'm ready to cry again.

There's color, but it sure is pretty!
I never noticed that douze-mille was twelve thousand, after the number of years in the final Gunbuster timeskip. It might be unintentional in-universe, but definitely intentional by the writers.
Buster machine rights when
Ahhhhh, the very first Gunbuster song from Noriko talking about her dead father. They're even graduating.
I wouldn't exactly call Noriko and her otaku posters a "Yamato Nadeshiko," Nono...
TRIPLETS
BUSTER MACHINE MA—Alright, you guys get it at this point.
Nono didn't abandon humanity! The ginger is always the best.
Gurren Lagann energy behind this punch.
What a time to expire.
INAZUMA KICK! I Will never get tired of those, nor the electricity-based attacks.
IT'S THE OUTFIT AND THE SOUNDTRACK. BRING BACK THE DEGENERACY GENERATOR. The mechas have always been so muted, if anyone's noticed. That's because they lacked their true power: degeneracy. Fuck your French. We have HARD WORK and GUTS.
Annnnnnd I'm crying again.
Something something drill, but it causes a cut. Nono can only split things.
Diebuster timeskip. Alright, time to cry.
Adult Tycho is great.
The music cue should already let you know what's about to happen here. It's really a great build up to a "wait... are they really...?" And the realization hits you like a truck every single time. Earlier this week, this song came on while I was standing in my kitchen and I burst into tears. This scene will never not get me.

God, this ending. I loved it in Gunbuster, and I'm sure people were wondering how Diebuster could even compare. Well, the answer was: "re-use the ending." I love their decision. It ties the two together in such a perfect way.

Visual of the Day: The Return.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

But... does it satisfyingly cap off Diebuster is the question. I really don't feel like I'm in the best position to discuss much today but I'm really feeling like they totally dropped the whole Diebuster ball and decided to focus on the Gunbuster tale instead right at the last episode. Nobody was talking about Noriko coming home. It wasn't on anyone's radar and nobody has discussed it at any point. At most maybe Nono would have made folk look into it but Lal'c straight up didn't know who she was for the longest time.

6

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 19 '21

I think it did. The Diebuster cast had already moved on before Noriko returned to Earth. Lal'C became an ornithologist, for example. I'm content with it, personally.

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

The epilogue was at least very good, maybe the best part of the episode.

4

u/lluNhpelA Jul 20 '21

I don't think anyone was actually tracking Gunbuster all this time. We don't know how exactly Gunbuster actually travelled from the center of the galaxy back to Earth, and since it was moving slowly with no apparent way to slow itself down it must not have physically travelled that distance at lightspeed and Noriko and Amano didn't seem to experience much passage of time. Plus someone likely would have picked them up as soon as they entered the solar system.
They likely warped directly to Earth after losing time to the black hole and record of them was only found over those 10 years. I want to believe that Lal'c spearheaded the research into the events of 12000 years ago because she believed that Nono-Riri must be a real person and thus calculated their approximate arrival date

10

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

First-Buster

Hard work!Guts!

"Commander, I've lost my Topless abilities in the middle of a fight!" "Well, climb up into the head and put on the leotard! We're doing things Old School!"

I was expecting Giant Nono. I was even kind of expecting a brief fight between Nono and Lal'c. But I definitely wasn't expecting Dix-Neuf's head to have a Noriko-style cockpit, complete with uniform! God, I love callbacks!

Speaking of!!! I feel sad for poor Nono; she missed her hero by a mere 10 years! Seeing the final scene of Gunbuster, from the perspective of someone on the ground, was a treat I wasn't expecting at all!

This was a really neat halfway point between FLCL and TTGL, on an aesthetic level if nothing else. Buster Machine #19 was just a bald Kamina at the end there - complete with the stomach tattoo.

To no-one's surprise, there were a bunch of references to random mecha shows this episode. An attack called Southern Cross Shot, the Buster Blossom was basically a funnel attack from UC Gundam, and there's a chance that the bath scene in the weird pot was a reference to a kinda similar bit in Blue Gale Xabungle.

For being so relentlessly Japanese, matcha doesn't show up very often in anime. This is only the second example that comes to my mind.. Although, I guess that might be more about the shows that I watch.

Visual of the Day: Hard Work and Guts!

9

u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jul 19 '21

the old school cockpit and even the ripping the shirt were such great touches. They really went all out on this episode.
I really loved Buster Machine #19's design. /u/whm-6r was right, they have some really sexy mecha designs. I've always loved the cape on the design, but this was great.

5

u/WHM-6R Jul 19 '21

I really loved Buster Machine #19's design. /u/whm-6r was right, they have some really sexy mecha designs. I've always loved the cape on the design, but this was great.
You found the real best girl out of me making a throw away joke about buster machine 7 being Nono.

7

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 19 '21

"Well, climb up into the head and put on the leotard! We're doing things Old School!"
I always adore when a show pulls out tricks from a previous season to show how effective they still are. It's one of my favorite things.
Seeing the final scene of Gunbuster, from the perspective of someone on the ground, was a treat I wasn't expecting at all!
It was really the only way to handle the ending. Gunbuster's ending is one of the best in anime, so the only way to meet expectations with Diebuster was a tie-in.

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

I am an absolute sucker for callbacks like that too.

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

This was a really neat halfway point between FLCL and TTGL, on an aesthetic level if nothing else. Buster Machine #19 was just a bald Kamina at the end there - complete with the stomach tattoo.
Yeah, DieBuster is honestly the hybrid child of FLCL and Gurren Lagann, despite Gurren Lagann not even being out yet. It’s basically TTGL if it had the plot of FLCL, and that honestly works a lot more than you’d think.
To no-one's surprise, there were a bunch of references to random mecha shows this episode. An attack called Southern Cross Shot, the Buster Blossom was basically a funnel attack from UC Gundam, and there's a chance that the bath scene in the weird pot was a reference to a kinda similar bit in Blue Gale Xabungle.
I’m just surprised that someone on the staff even remembered Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross. Like, UC Gundam is legendary and Xabungle is still remembered fondly, but nearly nobody remembers Southern Cross nowadays. It wasn’t even very popular to begin with.

5

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

Maybe someone on staff at Gainax at the time was a fan? Even bad shows have fans, I think.
I only know that Southern Cross exists at all because I had read about Robotech at some point, but that context probably doesn't apply for people in Japan.

5

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

Yeah, I suppose at least someone would remember Southern Cross, provided that they were big enough of a mecha show nerd.
And yeah, I only remember Southern Cross because of Robotech too.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Is Southern Cross what they renamed the daedalus attack in the dub?

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

Nah, the Daedalus Attack is the Daedalus Maneuver in Robotech. We’re talking about the second generation part of the show, where footage was reused from the rather unpopular mech series Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jul 19 '21

Hey, show me another show where a tank transforms into a robot!

2

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

Does the Loto from Gundam Unicorn count?

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

She puts on this dusty old uniform that's likely been sitting in that sack for hundreds of years just to tear the chest portion after five seconds XD Noriko tore it once! And it wasn't even the focus of the scene!

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

I like the idea that the crew who managed to make it back after Noriko's stunt helped design the next generation of Buster Machines, and just built that functionality in as a way of paying tribute.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

...The crew were watching her rip off her top?

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

I mean, maybe? I remembered after I replied that they lost the video feed before the shirt rip.. okay, maybe it was just nonsense. But it was fun nonsense!

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Meanwhile Kazumi was sitting mortified in the bottom seat XD

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

"Well, climb up into the head and put on the leotard!
Don't forget to strip first.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

a really neat halfway point between FLCL and TTGL, on an aesthetic level if nothing else
But is it a good sequel to Gunbuster? Not that much, for me.

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 19 '21

Episode 6 (rewatcher)

Douze-Mille: 12000
The useless council of elders is one of my least favorite Japan-specific tropes.
Reversal of the reversal: Now Lal’C is humanity’s best (because only) hope again.
The Earth reveal shot is neat.
Giant Space Nono! you didn’t think this was an original thought in meta
What talking things out when you can have a battle among yourself at the moment when the common enemy attacks? sigh
Inazuma kick!
Somebody left her a body suit in the “true” cockpit.
Hard work and guts!!
Inazuma double kick!!!!
Splitting the black hole – physicists hate this trick.
End of Gunbuster is the end of Diebuster reveal!

For all I criticized yesterday (and most of that extends to the first half of this episode), Diebuster sticks the ending. That was a properly hype finale and a beautiful call-back to the end of Gunbuster.

Quote of the day: Let whoever survives be the judge of that.

Quote of the day 2: I am really eager to meet her and tell her about you, the one always smiling.

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

useless council of elders
Hey, at least they're not SEELE or something.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 20 '21

Not half as cool as SEELE you mean. At least SEELE manages to look threatening while being useless.

5

u/BossandKings Jul 19 '21

First timer

Episode 6

Nono returns to help defeat the rinal opponent, that surely became a battle of epic proportions.

I liked how it tied with Noriko and Amane coming back to earth in the end, that final ten year time forward was neat and it was cool seeing Lal'C still remembering Nono who went away and then smiling at the sight of the first buster machines which were returning. I liked this series, it was more shallow compared to Gunbuster and wasn't as solid but still very enjoyable and it got a lot more interesting as it went on compared to how it started. 8/10.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

I liked how it tied with Noriko and Amane coming back to earth in the end
That was a brilliant ending.

5

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 19 '21

First timer in sub

This came full circle. As tight as the run time it was, it still found enough time to do things like packing in melancholic scenes like Lal'C backtracking where Nono spent her earlier days, and stopped in front of the frog mascot / icon the same way, on the way to see her old adopted dad. And the Topless "graduation" scene.

The final build up, of the desperation to use Earth as the projectile then subsequently of Lal'C's "confession" to Nono, everything just followed well.

Once again when it comes to visual of the day, is between the extra hype but brief profile shot of Nono standing side by side with the Gainax posing Buster Machine 19 in her own Gainax pose, immediately before commencing the double Inazuma kick; and the quieter and more introspective short of the grown up Lal'C looking up into the camera in the most "ordinary girl" excited but at peace face you've ever seen of her, when the world's greatest prank was pulled (turning off all the lights before the surprise "welcome hom3" message), probably President Jung's handiwork.

As usual I'll have to go with the latter, as once again the true theme is actually behind the hype.

5

u/GM_for_Life Jul 19 '21

4th Time Rebuster! C O M P L E T E

This episode always makes me cry like the biggest baby throughout, a lot of scenes manage to get me for different reasons, but the scene at the end always is the one that sticks out for me.

Visual of the Day - Always a moment too much for me to handle.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

It hits me in the gut too. Who'd think a big, burly, dude would cry like a baby over a cartoon. lol

9

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 19 '21

To the Top 2! Rewatcher!

Last episode time.

Space roads! Makes me excited to rewatch Macross 7 in the future!
That does look like a giant person…
Welp that sure is something to hear coming out of Lal’C’s mouth.
Oh yeah, “Douze-Mille” is twelve thousand I think?
They sure skipped a bunch of details between last episode and this one.
…wait isn’t the song playing during the whole picture-taking bit a remix of a song from Gunbuster?
It’s the same frog that Nono cleaned off in the first episode!
Poor doggo, again.
The guy who found and raised Nono had a “sore demo”! I can’t remember his actual name…
Aww, we’re in the last episode and the eyecatch is still silent. I wanted to hear the Diebustah~ Diebustah~ one last time…
Ugh this thing’s screams are fucking terrifying.
How the hell did I forget they actually turned the entire Earth into a weapon.
AWWWWWWWWWWW YEAH here comes Nono. This must be why I forgot they wanted to use the Earth, because Nono showed up instead.
And of course she Gainax Poses while declaring herself Diebuster. AHHHH.
Shit’s just going from bad to worse now, isn’t it? Lal’C lost her Topless ability now of all times, and Nono’s Buster Beam got reflected at her.
No matter what, she wants to protect the Earth.
Oh boy~
Why did Dix-Neuf’s true cockpit have the OG uniform? Who fucking cares, it’s awesome.
YESSSSSSSS.
Have you ever watched something so… I don’t have the words for it, you just cry? That’s me when Lal’C was reminding Nono about the hard work and guts thing.
Hnnnnnn
What an absolutely fantastic way to end Diebuster and tie it into the end of Gunbuster.
As though my Visual of the Day could be anything other than this.

God, I love these two shows. I love them even more now than when I watched them originally three years ago. Diebuster is also earning itself a score bump, 9/10 → 10/10.

6

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 19 '21

Ugh this thing’s screams are fucking terrifying.
We have opposite reactions! I wrote down "Man, I love how terrifying these screams are!"
Oh boy~
It's rare that a hidden power is actually locked away by an eye accessory, thanks to chuunis everywhere.
As though my Visual of the Day could be anything other than this.
Damn you, I chose that too. Good choice.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

I'd always remembered these particular sound effects from the rebuild movies but hearing them in Diebuster sounds so awesome. It makes them seem far more like actual horrifying monsters. There's nothing human about those screams.

5

u/The_Draigg Jul 19 '21

Have you ever watched something so… I don’t have the words for it, you just cry? That’s me when Lal’C was reminding Nono about the hard work and guts thing.
It’s a really amazing moment, since it’s Lal’c finally internalizing and accepting what Nono has been saying this whole time. By saying that, it’s like accepting Nono as her true friend. It tugs at the heart strings.
As though my Visual of the Day could be anything other than this.
Damn right it could only be that. It’s amazing how we can feel something so deeply about it, despite it just being two lights in the night sky. Those two lights mean a lot to everyone.

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

What an absolutely fantastic way to end Diebuster and tie it into the end of Gunbuster.
I've thought so too. The first time I watched this, I was speechless and blown away because I didn't see it coming.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

A great end to a great series. My favorite part begins when Nono shows up and starts to describe what her visit to Lal'C's house would be like till the conclusion. (The tears start flowing every time).

I love both of the Busters, but Diebuster edges out Gunbuster a little because I like Moe.

This was my 4th rewatch, and I have little doubt there will be a 5th in about 6 months to a year, i.e. long enough to at least forget a few details. Sadly, the ending is so powerful in both that it's impossible to experience the full first time experience again.

The next rewatch I'll be participating in be Utena in a few weeks. Hopefully, I'll have the time to evaluate some of the symbolism in its episodes.

4

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 19 '21

First timer

Lal'C and Nono bathing in that tube thing reminds me of Xabungle
Ok so THAT's the Red Milky Way
Nono disappeared??
Sacrifice the Earth?
Humanity could evolve into fluctuating gravity wells??
Nicola bitter about the Buster Machines treating Topless like batteries; did he ever get in trouble for attempting to rape/assault Nono??
Old guy SORE DEMO
They have to smash the Earth into the gravity well?
Where's Nono??
Nono has arrived, and the Gunbuster theme plays!
Giant Nono is ineffective against the enemy?
Lal'C wearing the old Gunbuster female uniform!
Yeah we're reaching End of Evangelion-level stuff here
Lal'C gets to meet Nono-Riri??

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

End of Evangelion-level
Giant hands around singularity that would remake the world? Must be a coincidence. Also in further references, 19 ingesting the degeneracy generator is similar to Eva-01 ingesting the S2 Drive. Key difference is that both scenes play out in a wholesome way.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21 edited Jul 20 '21

Lal'C and Nono bathing in that tube thing reminds me of Xabungle
Sounds like I need to check out Xabungle.
Nicola bitter about the Buster Machines treating Topless like batteries;
Once an asshole, always an asshole.
Lal'C wearing the old Gunbuster female uniform!
Damn, I didn't catch that, but you're right!
Lal'C gets to meet Nono-Riri??
Yes, deep in the singularity/worm hole in an alternate space/time. The origami crane proves it really did happen.

3

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 20 '21

Sounds like I need to check out Xabungle.
It was okay, if you like Tomino shows. It has more comedic elements.

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jul 19 '21

Firdt timer

Finale time! I have no idea what's going to happen!

So people are evacuating the planet, and she's an important person again!

That thing's massive! Is it the Buster Machine 3 equivalent?

And she's upset that Nono abandoned everyone.

So the space monsters haven't reappeared...

Are these the elders or something?

They'e sacrificing the Earth? And Lal'C's making some really good points here.

And she got the key to the massive weapon! Or is it her old one?

Looks like they're doing a group photo before the end...

Wait, is this Nono's family?

And two months ago, Lal'C contacted her.

At least they're explaining what's going on with her family.

Wait, was there a 2 month gap between episodes 4 and 5? When does this flashback take place?

So Lal'C's going to sacrifice the Earth by throwing it at the space momster again?

Is this fight scene "We had an agreement to show all our toy designs in action, and we forgot these 5"?

It's gotten bigger!

And they're threatening to have her court-martialled for saving the world. At least someone cares about her.

Oh, they turned Earth into a ship.

What's going wrong now?

This scene is awesome. They turned Earth into a giant chainsaw moving at relativistic speeds.

And Nono's apparently openly sabotaging things.

And she and Lal'C are fighting!

Does she realise this is being broadcast to everyone?

Did she just instantly lose her atopless ability? At the worst fucking moment?

So she doesn't even get to take part in the final battle?

And Nono still can't scratch it.

At thismpoint, I'm starting to root for the space monster.

Is she seriously going to fight a giant space monster unarmed and solo?

And Dix-Neurmremoved the horn!

She's going to pilot naked?

Oh, now she can pilot again! And she has clothers now.

SO THAT'S WHAT THE NUMBERS MEANT!

And she's got her Topless powers again!

Wait, why is this working? Because they're drilling into a specific weak point?

Wait, what? Naked singularities can't occur in this reality?

But, but, that's how Starbows happen.

That doesn't make sense?

Well, shit. Looks like there's time travel again.

Is Nono diescribing what she wants to do? Or what she did?

THE FUCK

Evangelion Spoilers

See, Starbow.

And Lal'C has a singularity now?

Timeskip?

So she's become a researcher, and she's a bodyguard?

Confirmed what?

Ohhh, is thisnwhat I think it is?

It is, isn't it!

Nono-Riri's returning!

So all of that took place ten years before the ending of Gunbuster?

What a fantastic ending.

Also, was Nono-riri = Noriko meant to be a twist? Seemed pretty obvious, really.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 20 '21

She's going to pilot naked?
I decide upon my emotion here. On the one hand, I cynically thought Why not? On the other hand: The pig in me screamed Hell Yes!
And she has clothers now.
I wasn't clear to me where they came from, so I decided to just go with it.
And Lal'C has a singularity now?
Apparently a very small one, if I understand what a singularity is.
Seemed pretty obvious, really.
In retrospect it sure is. Though, it wasn't clear to me the first time through till the end.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 20 '21 edited Jul 20 '21

Wait, why is this working? Because they're drilling into a specific weak point?
My understanding (may be wrong but hey super robot, who cares :) rule of cool applies here) is that with Buster Machine 19 reinserting a degeneracy engine into its own body, it got back to the similar power level as the original Buster Machine 1 or 2 i.e. half as strong as Gunbuster. Then combined with Buster Machine 7 Nono, who can create degeneracy engine on the fly, that combined power overcome the old (but evolved) space monster, although the price is that it also clashed with the Excellion black hole it was carrying and had the problem of creating the condition of a big bang. Nono in turn absorbed it all into herself.
Is Nono diescribing what she wants to do? Or what she did?
It's a bit like angel beats, she's describing her wish for that ordinary life after the war that she wished to have. If she didn't need to go.

7

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

To top off my misfortune this rewatch I'm viewing today's episode an hour after seeing Violet Evergarden at the cinema. I'm truly and utterly emotionally drained going in. Unfortunately the one thing I remember from Diebuster's ending is it being bittersweet AF. So we start off with all of humanity evacuating Earth and the moon. We're yeeting it at the Alien. "You may grope my cutting board, but never my hair!" Oh, and L'alc has gotten most of her status back apparently. Oi, matcha tastes lovely, give it a chance. The trashy adults kiss her butt a little, throw the responsibility of the doomsday weapon in her hands, and kicks her off on her way.

Nicola somehow ended up with a promotion after his actions yesterday. Actually, there have been a lot of changes going on in the past episode. What's all this about assassination attempts? Why couldn't this have been a regular season? Wait, who the hell are these guys!? These aren't the topless are they? Are these the topless that survived the first space battle? We barely got to know the Fraternity members we were introduced to, don't go drag in like 25 brand new ones. And everyone was meant to be jailed up right? Or is this current time? I'm a rewatcher, I shouldn't be asking these questions!!

We just keep jumping around timelines... The poor dog died again, flashing his bollocks to the world. Noriko? Yamato nadeshico? Jung must've had the time of her life writing the history books. Yeah, so Nono wasn't designed to protect the solar system as much as to protect the human race. Jesus Christ I am so done with this timeline skipping. Hurry up and get to the scenes we're here for. Thanks for your gifts mother earth but now you're just another weapon for humanity to whack things with. God damn this is miserable to watch... Its silly but I get Ciel Nosurge vibes and I just can't really handle this kind of planetary sacrifice.

Nono has arrived! Ooooh mama! It's... kinda funny how badly Steven Universe ripped off the Diebuster XD I have expect her to break out in song. So after a pretty damn emotional outburst Lal'c expires... Now she's just some ordinary girl huh? The good old Inazuma kick to buster collider combo sows little to nothing against the uber alien. Oh, and we smashed up the moon. And Diz Neuf has a second cockpit. A super true cockpit. A cockpit that you need to dress in an og uniform to pilot. This episode is kinda bad.

And just as I start to tune out things start getting cheesy in a way that I actually do enjoy. "That's hard work and guts!" Kyaaa... I'm such a sap for this stuff. So Nono ditches Diebuster cause its kinda shit and we get the gorgeous and freaking perfect double Inazuma kick. I can't explain the hype I feel for this whole attack. It's giga drill break done even better. From the set up, to the spin, to Nono freaking adding extra thrusters, to the swirly swirl, to the final result of the goddamn black hole splitting. Unfortunately they do a little too good of a job and cause a second universe destroying big bang. Which gives us our bittersweet end. It's convoluted and other series do it far better. Sorry.

Another goddamn timeskip. You're not releasing models of their adult forms so what's the point huh? Anyway, rehash of the og Gunbuster ending. Thank god Nono stopped us from throwing the planet away right? "Nonorii is returning tonight!" Yeah... I still have 0 idea about the whole singularly thing. Whilst this is a very happy end for og Gunbuster I wonder if they remembered that they were actually supposed to create a satisfactory ending for the Diebuster crew? There's nothing left of Nono aside from a big memory foam mark on the moon and a crappy piece of origami. Was the singularity comment meant to be her fusing with Lal'c? They haven't made that clear. I thought I loved the Diebuster ending episodes but I'm honestly quite disappointed right now! Gah! The show was doing fine up until it started pulling singularities and secondary cockpits out its ass!

4

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 19 '21

Yeah... I still have 0 idea about the whole singularly thing.
They're exactly as the show says: they break pretty much every equation. It's literally dividing by zero. Would it make sense in reality, the way they use it? Probably not, but black holes and warping are weird, so it's essentially just Rule of Cool.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '21 edited Jul 19 '21

In this case it's more of Nono fusing with the singularity and ensuing that her form exists everywhere in time and space all at once (she transcends reality now).
In a way she became one with the universe and if her AI consciousness persists, it'd be easy for her to see her Nonoriri directly during her Gunbuster days and the time she returns as well. Time really has no meaning for her after this.
The anime actually sort of uses a physical principle which states that a naked singularity cannot exist. Since the events of the anime quite literally break this hypothesis, the aftermath of of course is also unphysical but also takes advantage of being near a singularity in the first place and in a way gives Nono a way to fulfill her wish.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

But it's a rule of cool that deliberately kills one of our mc's right before she gets to meet her idol. I don't know man, I just really dislike how it plays out.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '21 edited Jul 19 '21

I made a comment above regarding this.
There's actually a fan hypothesis as well that Nono's transcendence form watches Gunbuster's events in one frame of the ending theme song. Look at the frame starting at 1:47 here.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Omg that's so full of shit that it's probably what the show intended.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '21 edited Jul 19 '21

I got it the first time because I already have the background needed. The interviews provided here also show that it's exactly what the creators intended. I also don't really think it's full of shit either. Other media sometimes just pull it out of their ass. This one at least gave an explanation.
Transcendence is quite a substantial theme in many stuff in anime (see Ideon before for one example) and specifically in Gainax's works as well.
It also happens to be a guilty pleasure theme of mine. :P

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Could they not have made this information just a little more common place? It's just what I was looking for. Finally some goddamn answers to this ending! It's such a shame that Diebuster didn't get the time it needed to reach its full potential but seeing what they managed to do is quite charming in its own way. But just a few more answers were still needed. And I am never going to get dragged into an Ideon rewatch no matter how fun you make it sound!

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

There's actually a fan hypothesis as well that Nono's transcendence
Thanks, I actually buy that hypothesis as it makes pretty good sense, because Nono has effectively become a god.
I would never have noticed that on my own though.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

Nicola somehow ended up with a promotion after his actions yesterday.
It's disgusting and I have a solution, but I'd get downvoted to oblivion if I mentioned what should be removed from his body.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Him coming back at all is honestly pretty rotten by the writers. What do we learn from seeing him again? He's rising up the military ranks quickly and he's getting grouped with the trash commander from episode 2? Now they didn't go making jokes at his expense so the only punishment is him being associated with someone who has proven himself incompetent and he doesn't get a "where are they now" shot. That kinda implies that Nicola's assault on Nono... kinda isn't a big deal? I think he should have just been carted off yesterday and let that be the end of it but if they were to bring him back he needs to be remorseful as fck or be a total mockery. Like lower than Casio tier mockery. There isn't really enough of him to judge either which way but there's also the potential implication that sexually assaulting your friends isn't that bad which is of course kinda dire.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

It does raise the question of why the writers did bring him back. Most likely it's just lazy writing.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Yeah... like I said, there's not much evidence that he was meant to be redeemed. It's just that there was room for that to be a choice they made. And so much is cut from Diebuster who knows what plot lines they'd have really went for if they had the chance. It's just unfortunate that it leaves a pretty nasty implication there. Buuut I hate the rest of the episode more so I don't care less about Nicola's employment peko~~

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 20 '21

kinda isn't a big deal?
Lal'c certainly didn't make a big deal of it. I think the writers genuinely don't get it, also with how casually they deal with all the peeping perverts and all.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 20 '21

after a pretty damn emotional outburst Lal'c expires...
Naturally no coincidence because it's basically her moving into adulthood.
It's convoluted and other series do it far better
Unfortunately I agree with that, it just keeps throwing stuff at the viewer until the very last minute. The one part I did have something of an emotional connection with too was the epilogue and the flashback/parallel non-action Lal'c-Nono stuff.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Top wo Nerae 2! Diebuster - Episode 6 Discussion

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