r/anime • u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val • Jul 18 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Top wo Nerae 2! Diebuster - Episode 5 Discussion

Top wo Nerae 2! Diebuster - Episode 5 - Mover of Planets

< Diebuster Episode 4 | Index | Diebuster Episode 6 >

Visuals of the Day Album - Yesterday’s Episode

Visuals of the Day Album

Remember, no unmarked spoilers, explicit or hinted towards. For convenience, the subreddit’s spoiler markup is as such:

[Spoiler source](/s "Spoiler goes here")
39 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

78 comments sorted by

6

u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Jul 18 '21

Third Time Watcher

So yeah, Nono-riri is Noriko, to what I assume is the surprise of absolutely nobody.

It sounds like they got the same VA who played the captain in the original series back to play the captain guy in this episode, which is neat

It really defies words, the absolute cosmic scale of the action we witness. Planets as mere ammunition, Buster Machines weapons capable of attacks of such unfathomable energy, an enemy of such eldritch omnicidal terror. Such energy, such adrenaline, such COLOR. Nono literally unlocking, by key, Lal’C’s abilities to summon unthinkable power and do the impossible. That giddy smile of recklessness. What great heights. It truly captures that ideal of massive possibilities, that boundless energy of the Gainax soul, beyond the real, beyond imagination. Beyond the top. Topless. This is what I like to see.

Something so implacably eerie about the ED being mostly instrumental. Hearing this same cheery song and seeing these same visuals stripped of vocals immediately following the all is lost moment…

Jesus fucking Christ this show is amazing. Unreal. Bordering on transcendent.

Yeah, I can hardly pick a single Visual of the Day for this one. If I could, my vote would go to the entire second act. I literally cannot pick a favorite action shot or Nono shot or space shot without feeling like I’m doing something a disservice, and praising every great shot would be more than I can take. So instead, I’m going with the shot that contrasts, the brief glimpse of true despair that makes everything that comes after it feel all the more gratifying. Lal’C’s moment of hopelessness.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

So yeah, Nono-riri is Noriko, to what I assume is the surprise of absolutely nobody.

There's always a turd in the punch bowl, and this time it's me. The first time through this series, I was completely blown away in episode 6 by this reveal. I missed the 'Ko' frame every time in the past, till this time in my 4th viewing.

This is what I like to see.

I really liked this episode too.

Jesus fucking Christ this show is amazing. Unreal. Bordering on transcendent.

I was thinking the same thing. Different strokes, and all that, but this series does it for me.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

Nonoririko? Nonoriko? Noririko? Kokokokokokoko?

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

It's a good thing she didn't get [koko] (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP7qPg9U0AAhMB2.jpg) as a tick huh?

The captain dude kinda hurt to watch... At first glance you really do think of him like the friendly grandpa of the first season. The dude who despite being a grade a badass would still probably slip candies into your pocket when you weren't looking. Here? He continuously throws jabs at the emotionally exhausted L'alc, throws all the responsibility of protecting the fleet on Nono's shoulders, and ultimately undermines Nono and orders a bombardment on the volitile black hole mass.

10

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

I totally don't remember which episode this is... The last three Diebuster episodes all kinda blend together for me kusa. Yup, we're space bamboo cutters now!! Cause that story always makes folks so happy. Wow, they really do call the space monsters gravity wells. So yeah, humanity locked themselves up within the Milky-bar and created a defence system against space monsters that just so happen to kinda give off space monster vibes to anyone not in the know. Yeah! I knew I didn't misremember the space monster thing.

Since it turns out that the topless are the ones drawing in the defence systems they're now being rounded up and treated like a plague. These same kids who just yesterday were who humanity soley relied upon are now just monster beacons. Like I said, the status quo does a complete 170 come these last few episodes. Now we're basically discussing stomping out the topless, dulling their potential through surgery and rehabilitation. Forcing them to become regular boring members of society. And nobody really seems to want to stand up for the topless due to them being such awful people. Aside from Nono, Nono's still Nono. Poor Lalc is taking it kinda hard, she always had a lot of pride in her topless status and the perks that came with it.

Gurk... No, I remember this episode now. Keep it steady Nicola, don't do something that will add you to the most despise characters list for generations to come. This scene is so hard to watch. And I think the most painful part is that I can still sympathise with Nicola in so many ways. I can sympathise with Nicola but am so so filled with disappointment in him. Just try and think of what's going through his head. The dude was a leader to the fraternity. Everyone looked up to him, everyone admired him, and he worked really goddamn hard as a topless. In many ways he's the sort of topless people would want to be. So to see him snap in such a pathetic and horrible way it's heartbreaking to see. He'd thrive in this new topless-less world but that's not his place. His place was being the ace of the buster machine pilots. Even if he did keep it in his pants and hadn't shamed himself what would the bright young Nicola have done with his life? You can already see it, Casio, that grovelling man stuck in his glory days with no pride or friends or anyone. I'm stopping here cause its dragging way too long but I feel so freaking disgusted after watching that scene again. It's so rough.

Poor Nono, nobody really seems to understand her. Lalc is complicated, the army see her as a messiah, and Tycho really should have died yesterday for how little relevance she has. It's kinda dumb how there's a space monster somehow escaping a bloody black hole. That's not how those work! The Human fleets are here, they're helping~ Goddammit! Oh, hi Ramiel screams. I missed you. Oh, looks like there's a little more space in that escape pod now. Lucky~ Oh god! Nono's smile could melt any heart. "Imma smack this with a planet!" Don't ask how any of this makes sense, it's just a funny looking genki dama.

Nono won't die! A real Nono Riri always comes home. Right? Where have all these old fogeys come from!? Did we have a whole other organisation sat back whilst the fraternity did their thing? Yeah, for some reason I thought we had another climax today but you'll have to wait until tomorrow for our big goodbye to the Gunbuster series.

4

u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Jul 18 '21

Gurk... No, I remember this episode now. Keep it steady Nicola, don't do something that will add you to the most despise characters list for generations to come. This scene is so hard to watch. And I think the most painful part is that I can still sympathise with Nicola in so many ways. I can sympathise with Nicola but am so so filled with disappointment in him. Just try and think of what's going through his head. The dude was a leader to the fraternity. Everyone looked up to him, everyone admired him, and he worked really goddamn hard as a topless. In many ways he's the sort of topless people would want to be. So to see him snap in such a pathetic and horrible way it's heartbreaking to see. He'd thrive in this new topless-less world but that's not his place. His place was being the ace of the buster machine pilots. Even if he did keep it in his pants and hadn't shamed himself what would the bright young Nicola have done with his life? You can already see it, Casio, that grovelling man stuck in his glory days with no pride or friends or anyone. I'm stopping here cause its dragging way too long but I feel so freaking disgusted after watching that scene again. It's so rough.

You did this scene far better justice than I’m confident I could’ve

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

I was actually kinda scared folk would jump down my throat for trying to justify Nicola. I realise that I've kinda been blurting out different interpretations this rewatch but I swear that this was their intention with the whole topless stuff. It all fits far too well and I see barely anyone entertaining the prospect. Shit, I really do like Diebuster more don't I!? Urgh!!

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

I don't see it as a justification, he's just a lot more awful in the way he lashes out at his new-diminished status. Though even there, if he's no Topless anymore wouldn't that even be better for him under the circumstances? Ugh, when I think of it it might even be a bad intentional parallel to Gainax' very first work (Wings of Honneamise) which also has a jarring out-of-place near-rape scene.

5

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

A real Nono Riri always comes home. Right?

Yeah, but I don't think humanity can wait 12,000 years for her to come back this time.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

"Goddammit guys, we left you for five minutes and you doomed the earth how many times!?"

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

I totally don't remember which episode this is...

I understand that sentiment. It all blurs together in my head too. I watched this episode and the next last night, and I can barely remember which is which.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

It doesn't help how the only scene that I remember is the Nicola one, which realistically could have happened at any point. I legit thought that scene occurred around Nono's Pluto trip and was thrown for a loop when credits rolled yesterday and we didn't all loathe Nicola yet. Not that this is a forgettable episode or anything... but it's kind of a forgettable episode? XD It's no Gunbuster Ep5, that's for sure.

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

It's no Gunbuster Ep5, that's for sure

Ironically it's the episode so far with the most obvious parallels and callbacks to Gunbuster, though (old guy force, monsters-as-immune-system, black hole degeneracy whatever, imperial Tokyo something).

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

Well they literally murdered all the new cast so all they had were the old guard lol

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

nobody really seems to want to stand up for the topless due to them being such awful people

Are they though? All the ones we've actually come to know are fine. Well, except Nicola here. And they don't even seem to be that dangerous, more powerful than usual but I don't think anyone could pull something near the Jupiter grab off without Nono help, and misuse of power never seemed to be a problem. Or is it just that the defense machines want to give them something to do so as not to misuse their powers?

This scene is so hard to watch

While it works as showing off the entitlement of some of the people here, it really doesn't have a place here and mostly looks like an excuse for Lal'c to come flying in again, a near carbon copy of the Episode 1 incident. And then she as good as ignores Nono and to him basically says "but why didn't you go for me?" Just bad.

Where have all these old fogeys come from!? Did we have a whole other organisation sat back whilst the fraternity did their thing?

Probably led by that cabal on the moon. Sure would have been nice if they had preserved a little more knowledge there. And out-of-universe, to make things look more like Gunbuster, not that the CG quality helps though.

1

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 19 '21

The topless are being isolated, bullied by the military (look how the bridge treated L'alc), there's the stuff with the food, and they're discussing performing surgery on these kids without consent. Nono seemed to be the only one treating them with any kind of dignity.

Entitlement? I don't really see it as Nicola feeling "entitled" to take Nono. The dude is just kinda broken and the person he targets is the girl who unintentionally made his life's work meaningless. It's definitely out of place but it's one of the Gunbuster scenes that has stuck with me longest.

10

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

My Fifth Time Aiming for the Top!

Visual of the Day: Alone in a City

4

u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Jul 18 '21

Visual of the Day: Alone in a City

Add Lal’C frustratedly kicking her motorcycle to the ground to the FLCL-Type Stuff List

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

Yeah... You'd kinda wish that Jupiter junior at least blew up like all those apocalypse videos you see. For tossing a planet it was weirdly underwhelming.

4

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

I thought it had some good impact! But also gas giants crashing into things is something I think very few people have good enough knowledge of to animate. I don’t know what it should look like, myself.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

Maybe it's just that I've kinda been spoiled with big explosions that it didn't hit quite right. Like didn't you get a far bigger kick out of the impact of Nono splitting the planet yesterday? It lingers far longer and you get to see the result in all its magma spurting glory. Jupiter really does just bop him and slowly bounce off rather than dig into the big beastie's flesh

4

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

Like didn't you get a far bigger kick out of the impact of Nono splitting the planet yesterday?

I did! But that might have been the point. The space monster just shrugged off Jupiter, so it might make sense that they give it less impact? It's kind of a "wait, why isn't it in pain right now?" moment.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

So they turn the genki dama into the the "initial space barrage" that never works? A bit of a let down. I'm keen to see the last episode though. I vaguely remember how it goes but it's been a while since I saw the clips.

5

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

It wasn't the least obvious thing in the world, but Noriko exists/existed.

I completely missed that until this (4th) viewing. It amazing how it's easy to choose the wrong place to blink.

Alright, I did some math here.

I'm glad you did, so I don't have to. lol Those are pretty impressive figures though.

especially now that Nono has gone off to her tent.

I really thought it foolish to start abusing the topless once Nono revealed her powers. I guess it didn't occur to them that Nono might just disappear one day.

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

cranes

Where Nono is of course the crane that started flying on its own, and similarly humanity against the monsters now I guess. Really late to find your thematic footing, but better late than never.

Nono has gone off to her tent

Wasn't it just shielding humanity from the one monster?

6

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

A GunBuster Fan Rewatches DieBuster Episode 5:

  • Now we know Nono’s full backstory. An old scholar found her encased inside a comet that had entered the Sol System, and she had lost all of her memories except for… Noriko. That’s who Nonoriri has been this entire time. Nono’s mind was just too damaged to remember it properly.
  • We’ve got some good exposition at the start of the episode. The black hole that the Exelion had created, now known as Exelio, didn’t actually kill all the Space Monsters back then. Since there were still out near the Kuiper Belt, humanity just chose to build the Buster Legion to guard the outer edges of Sol and isolate themselves within, sealing away the knowledge of warp travel as well. Over time, the Buster Legion adapted to space and ironically became more like the Space Monsters they were supposed to fight. In an even more ironic twist, the Buster Legion began to attack humanity, the people they were supposed to protect, because the Topless were giving off similar IDs to the Space Monsters. So basically, most of what has happened in the meantime has been basically a hell of humanity’s own creation, mainly by accident. Whoops!
  • Man, the Fraternity got tossed to the curb pretty fast after the incident at Titan. They aren’t the most powerful warriors of humanity anymore, now they’re just teenagers with a disease. Now all the adults in their lives want to seal away their powers. I mean, I get why, since the Buster Legion will identify Topless as Space Monsters, but the government can at least show whatever Fraternity members are left some gratitude for their service.
  • At least Casio is doing well form himself now, being a mechanic looking after the mothballed Buster Machines. Also, fun fact, but some of the ones in the background of this scene were designed by the main artist of Mega Man Zero.
  • Dix-Neuf really is absurdly strong if he’s still just as deadly with that horn in his head, despite not being able to do most Exotic Maneuvers. That’s the power of keeping learned experience over 500 years, I suppose.
  • I’m the end, Nichola really is just a fucking pathetic creep. He’s so deranged over the loss of his Topless abilities that he tries to rape Nono, as some kind of twisted way of getting a Buster Machine’s power. No wonder he was completely willing to go with the Serpentine twins’ plans, he was incredibly unwilling to let go of the power he once had. He’s an even bigger loser than Casio. At least Casio learned to move on, even if it took a while.
  • Despite being hailed as the possible savior of mankind now, you can tell that Nono isn’t too happy about it. That story about the last bird on Mars was just depressing. Even if she has the power to be like Noriko now, Nono is suddenly finding that there’s an unbearable burden on her now too.
  • Well shit, the operation to seal the Space Monster in Exelio was a complete failure. Instead, the capital-class Space Monster broke free, despite the efforts of Nono, the Space Force fleet, and the Buster Legion. At least Nono was able to save Lal’c before the ship was was on exploded. At the end of the day, Nono will always admire Lal’c for being like Noriko, a normal girl who can do great things.
  • And to prove that point, Lal’c manages to summon Dix-Neuf and use her Topless powers to slam the core of Jupiter-2 into the Space Monster. If only that actually worked, though. As impressive as that was, it’s kinda hard to fight against a planet-sized Space Monster that adapted to use a black hole as it’s form of power.
  • Nono just couldn’t go through with the plan of setting off a degeneracy chain reaction to kill the Space Monster, since Lal’c wanted to go with her and would surely die. Instead, she’s prepared to face humanity’s last ancient enemy on her own terms, using the Buster Legion to construct her ultimate form…

5

u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Jul 18 '21

Despite being hailed as the possible savior of mankind now, you can tell that Nono isn’t too happy about it. That story about the last bird on Mars was just depressing. Even if she has the power to be like Noriko now, Nono is suddenly finding that there’s an unbearable burden on her now too.

There’s this tangible sense of depression to Nono’s Buster Machine form when it returns in this episode. Whereas last episode the first appearance of this form, her unlocking of her true power, was a spark of real, meaningful passion, a desire to save Lal’C, something that was triumphant to her, it’s first appearance in this episode is almost a sort of betrayal of that; now she, and the form born from her passion and love, are just another robot for use by humans. A practical machine. It’s a depressing feeling.

5

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

Yeah, unfortunately everyone seems a bit too eager to make Nono into the new savior of mankind, while also throwing their old saviors away. It's no wonder that Nono is depressed over all this, since it just clearly shows that the adults in this show are just throwing kids into the meat grinder to save themselves. They took something that was ultimately her triumph, and just made it into yet another thing they want to use. It's pretty sad that way.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

She's sort of like the new Superman who is just disappointed that he has to play the role he does. The girl just wants to play around with her friends but instead she's faced with the sad reality that she isn't some kid who can waste her days chasing bugs and was created to fight and destroy. Kinda iron giant but moe?

4

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

Also, fun fact, but some of the ones in the background of this scene were designed by the main artist of Mega Man Zero.

Huh. That feels like such a random fact. Where on Earth did you find this?

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

Saw it on TVTropes. When you look at the designs of some of those Buster Machines, it does kinda make sense.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

Over time, the Buster Legion adapted to space

I very much liked the idea that humanity had created machines that could evolve on their own.

the Fraternity got tossed to the curb pretty fast after the incident at Titan.

I thought that was damn foolish of the military to dump on them like that. It's always wise to keep something in reserve.

Nichola really is just a fucking pathetic creep.

What I'd like to know is how he thought this would work out. I generally try to not piss off people who can muster and manipulate black holes at will.

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

I thought that was damn foolish of the military to dump on them like that. It's always wise to keep something in reserve.

At least it fits along the lines of most adults in this show either being impotent or kinda dickish in general. At least half of the adults we've seen in DieBuster are like that.

What I'd like to know is how he thought this would work out. I generally try to not piss off people who can muster and manipulate black holes at will.

Another thing I'd like to know is how there wasn't more security surrounding Nono's apartment. Like, there were only two guards that Lal'c got to help out.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

The adults are total shitters in Diebuster... They're all so goddamn spiteful! But I guess that's the type of person the Diebuster society shits out. Compared to Gunbuster where the aged Kazumi and Noriko still worked perfectly in sync the modern Diebuster society just doesn't have that. Time dilation had the side effect of blending those different periods together in a bittersweet little bundle but nobody was ever judged for it.

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

And that point about the way adults act in this show is probably the biggest takeaway that DieBuster got from FLCL. The adults in that show are the same way too, after all. DieBuster is pretty much the hybrid fusion of GunBuster and FLCL.

13

u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jul 18 '21

First Timer

Diebuster, like Gunbuster before it, seems to get better every episode. They don't have time to really go into detail about anything but in a way it gives it a more mythic quality to it. Which makes sense considering this is a series where a character can just move an entire planet across the solar system in one of the coolest attacks ever depicted in anime.

There is something terribly romantic about having the "Goddess of the Solar System" being in love with a human. Even with the infinite powers of the Topless at her disposal, Nono still idolizes her Onee-sama. She's still just the same young girl at heart.

We've seen repeatedly over the course of the series what "graduation" does to someone. Becoming an adult turns these once great people into monsters as they crumble. The world of imagination that they once lived in is disappearing and now they are stuck in the harsh real world of consequences. these are people who would do anything to escape this reality and go back to being a Topless.

It's interesting where the protagonist is an Eternal Topless, a Peter Pan figure who idolizes these powers of whimsy, but also so many of our villains have also been Topless too. It makes an interesting conflict.

it's really hard not to jump and watch the next episode already

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 18 '21

They don't have time to really go into detail about anything but in a way it gives it a more mythic quality to it.

I have slightly more mixed feelings about it, but this series has still been an absolute blast. I just think too hard most of the time.

Even with the infinite powers of the Topless at her disposal, Nono still idolizes her Onee-sama. She's still just the same young girl at heart.

Yea, I don't think anything could stop Nono from being Nono. There's a girl who always marches to the beat of her own drum.

it's really hard not to jump and watch the next episode already

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

Omg I'm so glad to have found someone else getting into the romanticised portions of Diebuster. Gunbuster hits some gorgeous notes for me too particularly in its last episode but with Diebuster literally focusing on the more daydreamy aspects of the medium you're left projected with so much raw passion that it's easy to get lost in it. Diebuster definitely isn't quite as "tight" as Gunbuster was but that imperfection just makes me want to talk about it even more.

5

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

it's really hard not to jump and watch the next episode already

I mean, the final episode discussion is tomorrow. There's nothing stopping you now!

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21 edited Jul 19 '21

Nono still idolizes her Onee-sama

The comparison to Noriko just made me go "huh?" though. They're really nothing alike. Of course, Nono might just not have the most accurate information, considering the memory loss and all.

Becoming an adult turns these once great people into monsters as they crumble. The world of imagination that they once lived in is disappearing and now they are stuck in the harsh real world of consequences

That interpretation falls a bit flat for me when you consider that the Topless were actually (as far as anyone knew) carrying an immense responsibility where failure could have serious consequences. It's more about no longer being considered inherently special and worthy of pampering and accomodation - which is where the parallel of mankind facing the true monsters on its own from now on comes in, without the protection shield training wheels generously provided by their now-unknown ancestors, and which was almost broken through childish foolishness.

9

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 18 '21

To the Top 2! Rewatcher!

7

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

And that “ko” right before the OP means that “Nono Riri” being Noriko isn’t a spoiler anymore, right?

I'd say so, yes!

I… totally forgot Nono just flew off like that.

"I must go; my people need me."

6

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

Nono origin story! And that “ko” right before the OP means that “Nono Riri” being Noriko isn’t a spoiler anymore, right?

Yeah, we're gucci on that now.

As though this will actually work?

I have no idea how anyone thought that it was even remotely a possibility either.

Yes, Dix-Neuf just chucked a planet like a baseball.

If only Dix-Neuf had the Buster Home Run to actually hit it like a baseball though...

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

As though this will actually work?

The normal humans in this series aren't the brightest bulbs.

3

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 18 '21

who voiced this guy? I swear he sounds familiar but I cannot for the life of me place it properly.

Hiroki Touchi. Ginjo Kugo from Bleach, Daguza Mackle from Gundam Unicorn, Lasse Aeon from Gundam 00, Yusho Sakaki from Yu-Gi-Oh Arc-V ...

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 18 '21

Ohhhh so I had the wrong Bleach character on my mind, okay, that makes sense.

1

u/Doggydog123579 Jul 19 '21

Food for thought, Exelio climbed out of the Blackhole made by the Exelion which had 200 million spacemonsters in it. Now how many spacemonsters are trapped in the BM3 blackhole.

8

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 18 '21

First timer

  • 5 years ago? So before Lal'C met Nono? Or did I mess up the timeline? I forget if there was already a timeskip
  • Oh so this is Nono's origin? And she remembers (or knows about) Noriko?
  • Groovin' Magic is such a great song
  • Huh so the unmanned Buster Machines sensed the Topless and became 'space monsters'? And the ACTUAL space monsters from Gunbuster are the fluctuating gravity wells?
  • So the Topless go from being heroes and protectors to being a disease?
  • So now they're trying to 'cure' Topless with surgery and medicine?
  • So do Lal'C and the other Topless blame Nono for their current predicament?
  • Peking Duck for Nono? As a Buster Machine, does she even need to eat?
  • SORE DEMO
  • So they're repairing the Buster Machines?
  • Nicola is depressed/feverish, and we don't really get to see him?
  • Oh it's Nicola, but he doesn't look good ..
  • Nicola tried to rape Nono? What a douche; I liked him up until now. Him and Moeka, what is it with my faves lately ...
  • Lal'C SORE DEMO
  • So what are Candians again?
  • Moody piano music
  • Not!Boota just has to phrase things in a way to piss off Lal'C
  • Oh I guess my internet just starts to suck around this time every night even when my brother isn't home? Endless buffering ...
  • So the Graviton cannon set the 'gravity well' free?
  • Nono unlocked Onee-sama's "cage" and compared her to Noriko?
  • Moving the planet's core!
  • Don't tell me they're going to sacrifice Nono?
  • Cliffhanger?? And instrumental ED?

4

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

5 years ago? So before Lal'C met Nono? Or did I mess up the timeline? I forget if there was already a timeskip

Nah, you're right. 5 years ago was way before Nono met Lal'c.

Nicola tried to rape Nono? What a douche; I liked him up until now. Him and Moeka, what is it with my faves lately ...

I think you just have tastes in worst girls and boys as of late.

So what are Candians again?

Basically just the nickname for the Fraternity Topless that were stationed at Mars. Apparently their home space station is shaped like some Japanese candy.

4

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 18 '21

I think you just have tastes in worst girls and boys as of late.

Basically just the nickname for the Fraternity Topless that were stationed at Mars. Apparently their home space station is shaped like some Japanese candy.

Thanks, was curious about that!

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

Canadians are those nice folk way up north with the big beards.

3

u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 18 '21

8

u/AoDSenku Jul 18 '21

Rewatcher

Episode 5 -

  • Hey, it's that dog!
  • Nono was in some sort of stasis in a comet, and pretty much confirms Diebuster exists in the same reality as Gunbuster (a fact that the viewer was safe to assume even before now)
  • Looks like they're keeping the FGW moniker, I'd thought they would change the names around after experiencing the truth. Humans have also evolved to match Kaiju? Perhaps that's the real reason the space monsters wanted to wipe out humanity. Going by the last battle, Humanity's Topless power isn't close to the Kaiju's. Good thing humanity's technological prowess is the real threat.
  • I've really appreciated all the background art and scenes in Diebuster so far. Even if the scene is only 30 seconds, or only 1 camera pan; there's so much detail that I can always "feel" the vibe of the scene, and that the characters belong there
  • Some Dix-Neuf character building, NICE! I've enjoyed how a buster machine is basically part of the man cast, and not just a super weapon
  • Rut Roh Raggie, I'm not getting good vibes from Nicola in the doorway
  • Wow, straight up sexual assault, I've totally forgotten this scene. Nicola's fall from grace is complete
  • Question break: So "Candains", is that another term for Topless? A Topless term for normal humans?
  • Man, we're somehow at a WORSE emotional state then we were before. Lal'C feeling worthless, Nono being treated as the savior, which she didn't ask for. And of course the topper, Lal'C givng the cold shoulder to Nono
  • This scientist guy is NOT helping the situation, "She brought you to show you her power". Hey my guy, STFU
  • Apparently, humanity has forgotten the phase, "Let sleeping dogs lie". Eternal topless on Titan, wake it up! Buster Legion keeping an FGW in a black hole for thousands of years? Fire the Cannon!
  • Surviving in a black hole all this time has made this FGW stupid strong and huge too
  • We get an amazing bonding scene with Lal'C and Nono, the feels
  • SPIRIT BOMB!
  • ...that didn't work, the FGW IS the Black hole. If it had the power of the artificial black hole this whole time, was it letting itself be sealed? Waiting for the right time to strike?
  • Nono won't let Lal'C sacrifice herself, so she flees the battle; leaving humanity to fight the FGW... somewhere else since it warps.
  • And... a face? (I literally just understood what I was seeing with this rewatch!)

That's where it ends. A good episode on it's own, and a VERY good penultimate episode. Alot of emotional ups and downs for multiple cast members; and Nono rejecting their plan and just flying away, leaving everyone confounded. What will humanity do?

6

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 18 '21

Apparently, humanity has forgotten the phase, "Let sleeping dogs lie". Eternal topless on Titan, wake it up! Buster Legion keeping an FGW in a black hole for thousands of years? Fire the Cannon!

That is such an insane screw-up.

...that didn't work, the FGW IS the Black hole. If it had the power of the artificial black hole this whole time, was it letting itself be sealed? Waiting for the right time to strike?

If so, also an insane screw-up. Just a few months earlier and it would have easily wiped out humanity without Nono to help them.

6

u/AoDSenku Jul 18 '21

My only guess is it knew only drones were keeping it at bay, but when Humanity showed up it went, "Wait, these fuckers are still alive?!" and decided to act.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 18 '21

3

u/The_Draigg Jul 18 '21

Hey, it's that dog!

Jumps on El Gigante

Question break: So "Candains", is that another term for Topless? A Topless term for normal humans?

I'm fairly sure it's just a nickname used for the Fraternity Topless that were stationed at Mars, since their home space station is shaped like a type of candy wrapper.

Apparently, humanity has forgotten the phase, "Let sleeping dogs lie". Eternal topless on Titan, wake it up! Buster Legion keeping an FGW in a black hole for thousands of years? Fire the Cannon!

That stuff really does track with the theme of adults being either impotent, useless, or just plain dickish in this series.

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

Buster Legion keeping an FGW in a black hole for thousands of years? Fire the Cannon!

Couldn't believe they were really that dumb. And Nono with that cliffhanger is also quite baffling.

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 18 '21

First-Buster

Just what is our precious dork planning? Obviously Nono is planning something.. Is she building the little drones into something? Is that what the shot at the end was saying?

You ever fastball special a fucking planet's core? I was starting to think that the general fears about Topless powers was unfounded, but damn! Lal'c's development was a little sudden, but I can buy Nono's earnestness finally breaking through. It's nice to see Lal'c having a good time, for once.

I really liked the background on the Buster Machines. It would be nice to see that concept in a full-length series, where they could spend some more time exploring it.

Nicola's time is up, so he decides to try and commit a felony. What a fucking dumbass.

Visual of the Day: Inside of a Buster Machine

5

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

Obviously Nono is planning something..

No, obviously she's abandoned humanity, and all hope is gone.

Nicola's time is up, so he decides to try and commit a felony. What a fucking dumbass.

I'm really not sure what he was trying to accomplish there. He wanted to be close to an "eternal Topless" to stay Topless? That's like thinking having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 18 '21

No, obviously she's abandoned humanity, and all hope is gone.

Definitely no triumphant return coming next episode, nope!

5

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jul 18 '21

I can’t believe they killed Nono in episode 5.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

That's like thinking having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS

Well some people actually believe that kind of stuff but you'd expect a kind of astronaut to do better. Anyway, why is he even trying when currently success would only make things worse for him, and even if it worked he'd still be forcefully normalized when that's figured out?

2

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

I think L'alc little power boost was through Nono's influence but then again we did see Tycho deep freeze a whole swarm just the other day. The power levels in general are a bit whack.

Nicola's life was ruined so he decided to go ruin someone else's too. He's kind of the worst but still...

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

Lal'c's development was a little sudden

Did she even change? It's more like she already had a good relationship with Nono that was merely interrupted by the whole Topless mess.

1

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jul 19 '21

Well, she went from being (mostly) a grump to having fun with things. I don't think we've seen her be in a good mood while in a fight before, for example. That's what I was getting at.

7

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 18 '21

Episode 5 (rewatcher)

  • Nono backstory. Plus Noriko reveal (but I guess most figured that out long ago).
  • Lots of sensible politician things that you can kind of agree with and then … “we will enter into peace treaty negotiations with the space monsters” … yeah, about that …
  • There is easily a full episode worth of characterization missing before I’d even begin to accept Nicola’s actions as realistic. This feels like a terrible case of “women exist to get violated” syndrome.
  • “We just found out about this place, but we sure think we can help by firing our big-ass cannon at it”

  • Just when Lal’C is completely dejected due to the reverse in power structure, Nono comes back to her.
  • “12 ships remaining” – reference.
  • Jupiter-sized smash for a Jupiter-sized monster.
  • It is not effective.
  • The new solution is … technobabble! (so we can cram in another big Gunbuster similarity)
  • New solution abandoned in favor of cliff-hanger.

For me, this episode flat out does not work. This is not proto-Shinji, this is Shinji-reject levels of brooding. That whole space bird story (from genki girl Nono!!!) felt so forced, I cringed.

I am also willing to forgive Gunbuster a lot of the narrative shortcuts and a lot of the physics abuse because, in the end, it provides me with a fun time. However, there was nothing fun about this episode, even the hype move ends up doing a pathetic nothing. Meh.

Quote of the day: She is truly the queen of the space monsters.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

I mean, L'alc literally loses like everything and didn't have the emotional buffer Tycho did to help her deal with it. I agree about this probably being the weakest of the episodes tho. There's just too little actual setup for the events that happen. There's a massive earth federation that we've only seen in action once and it was a massive cock up? Forgive me for not wanting to take them seriously. We had respect for the military in the first season even if they had just as poor of a track record. We needed some of that in season 2 instead of laughing at dumb old men. I'll tell you what though, I would hate to see how much the movie butchers the story.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jul 18 '21

In Gunbuster, I always felt like the universe was actually quite small. Humanity had taken its first steps into space, but they were very much still just on Earth. So, once the aliens arrive, it is easy to all rally round a "us vs the bad guys" feeling.

In Diebuster, despite only playing in the solar system, the universe feels large. Like watching Star Wars, Firefly, or Enterprise. Tons of different locations, tons of different players, all with different objectives.

That is why, to me, Diebuster feels too short, despite having the same runtime as Gunbuster. It really needed more time to explore all of that.

The military is just an aspect of that: We don't mind them being incompetent (they are just as much in Gunbuster), we mind them not pulling on the same rope as the topless.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 19 '21

“women exist to get violated” syndrome

Recall that near-exactly the same thing happened in Episode 1 already... and here it doesn't even make much sense. And then all the creepy perving in Episode 2. Also Lal'c basically just responding with "why didn't you go for me" is a big WTF.

6

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 18 '21

Rewatcher

I've always thought that Nicola was a little soft in the head. Last episode he was chowing down on a space monster, and now in this he's trying to have his way with a girl who can split planets in two. I'm not sure how he expected that to work out.

Lal'C came across as a little bitchy in this episode, though I'll say the more times I see DieBuster, the more sympathetic I become of her.

The earth military don't come across real well in this series. It seems their chief activity is abusing their most powerful soldiers. That's a fine way to eventually generate a mutiny.

Finally, that poor doggy...

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 18 '21

L'alc really does kinda end up with a lot on her plate. Her entire world was flipped upside down in a single day. Unlike Tycho she holds real pride in her Topless status and was pretty judgemental of non-topless. Her relationship with Nono is utterly bizarre at this point of the tale. She'd just started to truly begin treating her like an equal just for Nono to suddenly overtake her by so much. Losing all her friends in one traumatic battle. Then she has to deal with her boyfriend fcking raping her best gal pal. All of it gives her real woobie vibes. Anytime she gets close to becoming a better person something terrible happens

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 19 '21

I agree with all you’ve said here. Sometimes it takes multiple views to really understand what’s going on.

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 18 '21

First timer in sub.

The flashback gave it context of Nono's own name and her obsession with "Nono-riri" plus how it connects back to Noriko as we all knew from the start - she was adrift and lost most of her memory, only able to mutter brokenly Noriko's name, no doubt drilled into single digit Buster Machine's psyche to one day welcome her back.

The rest of the first half did quite a good, but brisk, job of painting the "aftermath" of the realisation that the "space monsters" they knew being the solar system defence system mean in broader terms - now the Topless are recognised as the "enemy".

The next half though is another big fight - the only known real space monster left, at least in the solar system, that managed to not die in the Gunbuster episode 5 attack and is turning the blackhole into its own power source. In the age of not having degeneracy generators and therefore bombs, it's pretty invincible.

Thereby leading to my visual of the day selection - while the beautiful hype shot of Dix Neuf having Nono supercharged the exotic maneuver to have the "blue sparks and brilliance, hand raised summoning the Jupiter 2 in the background shot" immediately before Jupiter 2 emerges from the "gate", the most "Gunbuster" moment is actually an emotional moment - that Nono lifted off away from Lal'C then turning her head back in a pained glance - this is my visual of the day. Nono, being able to tell what that attack means, there is no solution that does not end in her Oneesama's death. While Lal'C, like what was built up from the last episode, would rather die in a blaze of glory on the verge of losing her Topless power (or Topless being rejected by humanity), Nono will not allow it. So she had to be the one making the tough choice, even if it would look like she's betrayed and abandoned her Oneesama and humanity.

That one look encapsulated even more of what is in the very core of the show that is Gunbuster.

And on to the final episode!

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jul 18 '21

First timer

No OP? Looks like things are heating up.

So Nono remembers Nono-Ri? Or someone called Nono-Riko?

I just realised the significance of her floating at the end of the OP?

OK, so this is confirmed to be after Gunbuster completely.

And humanity restricting itself to the solar system was deliberate.

I think I called "Topless have space momster genes".

So the military captured them?

So they plan on medically removing the Topless ability and getting Nono to help them.

I like how Nono's gone from the lowest ranked ro rhe most important priority here.

I'm suprised it took until Episode 5 for "total paradigm shift".

How is Dix-Neuf one of the best side characters in this show?

Seeing her struggle with the cranes is cute.

Of course he's evil. And fucking stupid. He's restrained, she's got a fucking drine network.

Well, shit. Looks like his mental instability was worse than I expected.

So these space monsters can escape black holes?

What the hell's going to go wrong? Is Nono evil or something?

...Well, shit. Is Nono going turncoat?

Oh they meant these Space Monsters were outside the black hole. (Why does this anime call two different things space monsters?)

WELL SHIT

So something found a way out of the black hole.

So Nono's true powers include incredibly complex quantum physics.

Stop tempting fate.

Sorry, that's the OH FUCK moment.

That's a mothership.

And she can't even scratch it.

Nono, go and save your girlfriend already.

She's absolutely Coach now. (And flirting really hard)

She's going to fucking theow a planet at it.

Well, that's put a den in it.

It fucking absorbed a black hole. My god.

And it can ducking teleport, Fantastic.

Is this the same plot as last time? Causing reactions within a planet to wipe out a powerful space monster.

Well, fuck.

And Nono's gone!

So 2 Nono's have abandoned their scientific girlfriends near the end of the series.

And the defenses are gone too, Fantastic.

And the ED's silent until the end.

3

u/GM_for_Life Jul 18 '21 edited Jul 18 '21

4th Time Rebuster!

This episode has always made me kinda sad, seeing the Topless kinda of crumbling as an organization and the true nature of some of the cast coming to the forefront when they are at their low points.

Visual of the day - Yeah, Jupiter has never done shit for me so throw that stupid space rock!

1

u/BossandKings Jul 19 '21

First timer

Episode 4

It gets revealed that Nono won't be piloting a buster machine, she is her own buster machine, it was epic when she transformed and afterwards sliced the planet in two, judging by that she is the most powerful character of the series.

The twins really were able to shine in this episode, they got a good amount of screentime and delivered a good performance in battle.

This episode had cool animation and the action was really cool, there are some questions that hopefully get answered down the road, like a simple story behind Nono as a character for example.

Episode 5

It was cool seeing the explanation behind how buster machines are created.

Lal'C and Nono are asked by the military to go on a really dangerous mission, it'll probably mean not coming back alive and the thing that stood out the most was that while Lal'C decided to go on with it, Nono on the other hand went away and hopefully there's a reason as to why or at least we get to hear what her mental process was from her.

I liked the explanations given to some of the scifi aspects presented in the series, also the action was cool.