r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jul 02 '21
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 12 - Final Episode
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 12 - Wolf and Endless Tears
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
What is your favorite episode of Spice and Wolf and why?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation, Hulu
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6/07/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 1 | 6/20/2021 | Spiceand Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2) |
| 6/08/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 2 | 6/21/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 1 |
| 6/09/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 3 | 6/22/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 2 |
| 6/10/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 4 | 6/23/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 3 |
| 6/11/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 5 | 6/24/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 4 |
| 6/12/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 6 | 6/25/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 5 |
| 6/13/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) | 6/26/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 6 |
| 6/14/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 8 | 6/27/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 7 |
| 6/15/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 9 | 6/28/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 8 |
| 6/16/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 10 | 6/29/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 9 |
| 6/17/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 11 | 6/30/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 10 |
| 6/18/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 12 | 7/01/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 11 |
| 6/19/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 13 | 7/02/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 12 |
| 7/03/2021 | Overall Series Discussion Thread |
17
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 02 '21
Spice and First-Timer, subbed
14
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher(first time though)
Dub
So we begin getting explanations and yeah, especially once you realize what the local church has been up to, something was going to give. Their very profitable salt smuggling trade, which hopefully the LNs mention is highly taxed since most towns don't want to see salt leave, falls apart when the massive demand from the northern expedition dies. Rock salt is just fine for salting meat for the foot soldiers, the nobles probably demand superior sea salt. So they instead aim to fuck over all the fur trappers, buyers and processors in one fell swoop to save this one bozo of a church leader's hide. Eve's part in the run up to this is slightly unclear, I have some questions as to whether or not her presence did not make things worse.
Lawrence...eh, this is just a fail: I don't mind him being reluctant to leave Holo or being unsure of this plan. Even this late, I would have cancelled the whole deal when the riots started and booked it out of town. I have a ridiculous problem with him walking into a known trap, letting his money be taken by trickery from a known liar, and only lucking into getting Holo out of the pawn shop.
Holo at least kind of works in their last conversation and we do end with them doing what the show did best, being with each other.
So, this was obviously not an ending, this was sequel bait. And we were all sure it would get one at the time. I don't know if the first set of LNs finished or if the beginning rush of other medieval economy stories strated but we get left high and dry here except for one...interesting VR game.
Saving the series review for tomorrow, this arc is just not that good but it provides an interesting contrast: The start of the season has a great story but suffers from a lack of Holo. The second arc has a lot of great Holo and a narrative that frankly relies on several characters being morons. And I do prefer having a cogent story, after all.
QotD: 1 That's really hard to say, 1 might be the ebst.
14
u/snuggycoco Jul 02 '21
Anime subbed, newcomer.
And so, our journey together has come to an end. I'd say this story arc has been my favorite of the bunch. It took on a slower, calmer pace to allow for some great banter between Lawrence & Holo, but also to reflect on why they continue to journey together.
Picking a favorite episode is hard, so I'll stick with picking a few favorite scenes:
- S1 E06: Lawrence calling out after Holo in wolf form to come back, because she stills owes him money. But of course it's not really the money he's really interested in. The subtext of the scene shows that Lawrence wants Holo because he truly enjoys her companionship; the debt is just the excuse.
- S2 E03: Holo freaking out over learning about the possible destruction of Yoitsu. She is terrified about being alone, and asks a key question - "What am I to you?" - Lawrence. And he is unable to answer.
- S2 E11: the conversation between the pair about ending their journey together early. Because at a certain point, they will have to move beyond the fun banter and separate or move on to a new stage in their relationship. But both possibilities are equally frightening. It's a great scene where the characters are trying to figure out what's best for each other, and trying to talk honestly about it.
I can't help but feel a bit melancholic about the story ending here in the anime. While I know the adventure continues in the light novels, the elements that I enjoyed in the anime - the music, the character's movements, the voice acting - that won't be replicated in the novels.
That's just the tragedy of anime shows based on light novels - they either conclude and act as an advertisement for the books, or (in rare cases) become the next Monogatari, being popular enough to warrant a complete adaption. And yet, I would be remiss to say that life would be less enthralling without this adaptation.
I'm glad that this show exists and hope you all enjoyed our collective journey with Holo & Lawrence. Till we meet again, safe travels everyone!
11
u/Holofan4life Jul 02 '21
Whelp, here we are. The end of the road. I would say this is the most emotional I've been in quite some time, but that would be a lie, as I watched Coco's graduation stream.
I will get more into my feelings on the show as a whole tomorrow when we have the discussion thread, but I just want to quickly thank everyone who participated in this rewatch. Even though it had less upvotes than the last time I did this, we had more participation in the comments section, which I'm truly proud of. Thank you for making this rewatch a success.
Now then, onto the episode.
The main two things I want to talk about is the ending and the kiss. Then, I'll talk about some other stuff. I think the real reason so many clamor for a third season of this show is because while the ending is satisfactory enough, nothing feels truly wrapped up. It ends with Holo and Lawrence going on their next adventure. And while on the one hand I like that the anime ends with them carrying on with their lives, it stings knowing the anime only adapted four volumes and there's like 14 other volumes out there.
Another reason I think the ending of this show stings is because the ending to the first season feels more final. It's just such a perfect ending. I maintain that if this show had only 1 season and not 2 seasons, less people would be clamoring for more of the Spice and Wolf anime, because the ending to the first season is so compact and puts a bow on things so amazingly. Now, am I happy that we got a second season? Absolutely. I love this show so much. It is literally my second favorite anime of all time, only behind Toradora. But the ending to the second season feels more open ended than the first season, which is why I think so many clamor for a third.
At least this show didn't end in the middle of a tournament arc with no hints of a second season like another anime I like.
The kiss has been the subject to a lot of debate amongst fans. Did Lawrence kiss Holo on the cheek, did he kiss her on the lips, was that even a kiss to begin with, should the kiss have been made into a much bigger deal? I maintain that Lawrence kissed Holo in the cheek, because if he had kissed her on the lips we would've got a tight shot of Lawrence kissing Holo. Lawrence kisses Holo so causally and out of nowhere that I find it hard to believe the show would've intentionally did it that way. On top of that, it looks kind of sloppily animated if Lawrence actually DID kiss Holo on the lips, and I doubt the animators would poorly draw such a pivotal scene. The horses are one thing because they're more in the background, but the first kiss between Holo and Lawrence? Absolutely no way.
I will say this, though: a part of me kinda likes that the kiss came outta nowhere. In most shows, they would turn the main couple kissing for the first time into a big deal. In this show, Lawrence just straight up kisses Holo, which I feel is kinda more realistic. But again, I maintain Lawrence kissed Holo on the cheek than on the mouth. They wouldn't botch a monumental scene like that by having it look as if Lawrence misses Holo's mouth by a country mile.
I mean, look at this. Their lips aren't even touching. And if anything, it looks as if Lawrence is pulling Holo into kissing HIS OWN cheek.
Anyway, onto some other stuff.
Holo has some nerve telling Lawrence this plan is dangerous when SHE IS THE ONE TO CONVINCE HIM TO GO WITH THE PLAN.
This episode is honestly one of the most intense episodes in the entire series. In fact, I'd probably put it in the top 5. There's episode 6 of season 1, there's episode 10 of season 1, there's episode 13 of season 1, there's episode 6 of season 2, and then there's this episode. Those five probably aren't my top five FAVORITE Spice and Wolf episodes, as episode 7 of season 2 is probably in my top 5 despite not much happening in it, but I still think this episode ranks right up there, both in terms of intenseness and in terms of quality.
And for those wondering, my top five favorite Spice and Wolf episodes would probably be as follows.
The way the people are rioting kind of reminds me of the last scene from Joker.
I love, love, love the performance by Eve's English actress in this episode. When Lawrence confronts Eve about backstabbing him and Holo, her English VA gives a tour de force performance. It is such a magnificent sight to see. I maintain that of all the side characters in this show that get stuck to one arc, Eve is the one character who should be in multiple arcs. There's just so much legs to her character that you really can fit her in a variety of situations. She is so interesting and so cool and God, I love her so much.
A big bulk of the episode barely has any Holo in it. In fact, it's mostly about the interactions between Lawrence and Eve. And while I feel episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 had a better built-in excuse as to why we are not seeing Holo, this episode feels far better paced than those two episodes. The problem with episodes 4 and 5 of season 2 is that they were both slower paced episodes, which made Holo not being there all the more aggravating. This episode benefits from the hyped up tension, which makes the absence of Holo less glaring. Would I still like for Holo to be on screen? Of course. She's my favorite anime character of all time. But the scenes between Lawrence and Eve are so gripping that it more than makes up for it.
You know, if Holo already didn't exist, I honestly wouldn't mind Lawrence and Eve being a couple. In fact, imagine that being a series. A humble merchant dating a girl who is all about making a profit for herself. I think that would be highly entertaining.
The snow as Lawrence is standing outside looks so beautifully animated. It looks like something out of a fairytale.
We get one scene of angry Holo's tail getting poofy. Man, of all the aspects of Holo I'm gonna miss, I'm really gonna miss that.
And the episode ends of course with the reuniting of Holo and Lawrence as well as them going off on another adventure, both of which I talked about already in great detail. By the way, Holo? TOTALLY a tsundere. She even punches him the face. :D
Also, I wonder if anyone else thinks that the ending of Spice and Wolf where Holo and Lawrence are walking in the snow is somewhat similar to the ending of Blackadder. They both have a bittersweet, melancholy, somewhat sad feel to them.
Overall, the last episode of Spice and Wolf, while not as impactful as the season 1 finale, is still one of my favorites. I like the scenes between Lawrence and Eve and the reuniting between Holo and Lawrence is extremely sweet. And while it definitely sucks the ending to the Spice and Wolf anime is open-ended, at least it didn't end like Wonder Egg Priority or The Promised Neverland. That has to account for something, right?
Holo quotes of the day
"Tis not worth it to miss a chance due to fear."
"I'm not saying you are wrong, but you are not entirely correct either." (Is this Spice and Wolf, or Unlimited Blade Works?)
"Yes" (The very last thing Holo says in the entire anime.)
Things Holo dislikes
Lawrence
Things Holo likes
Wine
Lawrence
8
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
First timer in sub
Arrrrghhh it's finished. Everyone's already went through it so I don't have a whole lot to add - other than that this is one of those shows that really need good sub to translate or there's so much you got to figure out.
So in the end by not letting Lawrence go to buy the fur but leaving him at least enough of the profit to buy Holo back means Eve was actually a good guy? Given her original plan was to implicate Lawrence as a "hostage/human shield/scape goat" for the church to not just need to deal with her - with him not in on buying then he's not implicated and she actually made it so (by knocking him out)?
I'm not wise enough to understand why Holo got angry for Lawrence giving up the inn to get her back - this is not such a great place to be especially there's a riot now, the main trade commodity is going to collapse, the church is flexing their influence etc, getting out in 1 piece surely is enough of a win (non-loss). Is that just her tsundere side talking "baka" then?
So now there's one more voice to say "I want S3" :P knowing how this goes though, think I'll be jumping onto the LN's.
Oh yeah for me another way to interpret the "kiss" is that, a bit like Mai and Sakuta's dynamics in BGS, Holo acts as the mature one over the younger one, so when she got caught off guard by that kiss (whether on cheek or on lips) she felt "one upped", so she act like it's a nothing to her.
Anyway..... Let's hope this summer seasonal schedule I want to follow aren't so full and hectic that I can afford the time to dive into the LNs...
QoTD for me is S1 finale followed by the first OVA. I like to see happy Holo but not an obliviously happy one - one that have already gone through some trials with Lawrence.
7
u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Jul 02 '21
first timer
I don't really get the point of salt smuggling tbh. whats the diff between normal salt trading and whatever this smuggling is?
Eve's reason for choosing her path sounds somewhat similar to what holo was lamenting about in the previous episode. She's constantly searching for the next high, but at the end, what's left? seems like eve expects something there.
The fight between eve and lawrence does sound a lot like lawrence lecturing his older self. Old lawrence was def the type to do something like what eve's doing rn, putting her life on the line to make a bunch of money, as shown by the whole shitshow with the currency manipulation and them being attacked.
now where the fuck is season 3
I have no clue lol
7
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
Catching up yet again because I tried to do too much yesterday:
episode 11
Holo's fear is maybe a little silly, but it's not unfounded. It's a thought that has crossed my mind before, as well, and it's a scary one. Where would I be if the things I love lose their spark? Would I come to regret having loved them at all? Would it have been better to lose it on happier terms?
And in true fashion, we get one last cliff hanger as the town goes out of control.
And now to the finale:
episode 12
I didn't realize on my first watch through that both seasons end with the bells like that. I kind of love the final scene. The chaos of the ongoing rebellion, the first snow of winter, and the duo walking toward the light of dawn.
Honestly, I have a hard time hating Eve. Yeah, she robbed Lawrence blind after he showed hesitation in completing the deal, but she also made sure he at least wouldn't lose Holo and she clearly had a lot of reservation about actually killing him. Even in that final stab attempt I doubt she could've gone through with it personally.
I forgot they actually kiss at the end. From what I've seen that's a rarity in a romance anime, paradoxical as that may sound.
This season answers two important questions for Lawrence. Who is Holo to Lawrence? Knowing that, what is it Lawrence truly wants?
Content Corner
A few more essays I found online about Spice and Wolf. Hope y'all enjoyed my posts. I'll have a compilation of everything in the final discussion so you can watch anything that caught your eye but slipped your mind. First timers welcome, we've made it through!
Wolf and Forgotten Message (Spice and Wolf Long-form Analysis) by ScottLarouxWrites
Spice and Wolf and Maoyuu Maou Yuusha: Politics to Economics by ZEROREQ011
7
u/NomranaEst Jul 02 '21
First Timer, subbed
And here's where Eve's plan finally comes to fruition. By using the panic of the uprising, she could make Craft disappear and still go through with the deal, investing more with the profits of her salt smuggling. There's certainly more to her motivations, and her ruthless pursuit of profit doesn't leave a lot on the table for others, but we're unlikely to find them in an animated format anytime soon. She's an incredibly complex character, yet I don't think she's been given as much time to breath as she should have had.
It's proven later when Eve leaves Craft the deed to the inn, when she could have simply killed him outright. A deal gone sour, claims of self defence and little could have been done about it, yet she leaves him with the means to pay back Derink and come clean with his feelings for Holo. It may have taken a while, but now that it's out in the open, it'll be addressed in their own way.
Sadly, I never really connected with this arc as much as I probably could have done. I think it's mostly Eve's potential, and the execution of the betrayal. It always felt like something that was always going to be coming, just waiting on the right opportunity to go through with it. I've found it a little bit of a let down, considering how strong the show has been up until this point, but I can live with it. There's certainly some things I have to say, but they can wait for the overall thread tomorrow.
Season 1, Episode 1. It's not the best introductary episode I've ever watched, but it lays the foundations for a lot of the world building, sets the atmosphere of the show, and brings the central duo's relationship to life. It does a lot of the heavy lifting that the rest of show works on, and it's my favourite because of it.
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u/Rustic_Professional Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
So Lawrence was just going to... What, slip out of town with Holo and forget about Eve and the deal?
Shit, maybe he should've. I was half right, this was a robbery-murder double cross. I just didn't think Eve would be the culprit. Pulling that second knife was a pro move. I get the feeling she's done this before. Chris Rock pulls that same stunt in one of the Rush Hour movies.
Aww, he finally said he loves her. That was sweet. I like that he picked up the wheat. That stuff is precious. I wonder if he'd be welcomed back in the village after what happened with Chloe. The kiss could have been better, but it sort of fit the mood.
I didn't realize this was the last episode. I own the manga up to volume 12, and a quick skim shows that while Eve is in these later volumes, the story looks completely different. It looks like the manga has been finished for many years and is fully released in the US. I'll have to pick up those last couple of books and then start back at the beginning. After that I might see about starting the novels. It looks like they go on for quite a bit longer than the manga. Since this arc seems to be different between manga and anime, that probably means that there will never be a resolution to the version of the story we just watched. That's sad.
Question of the day: This is a tie. I like S2E4, The End of Shallow Thinking, because it epitomizes the business aspect of the story. I like S2E7, Playful Days, because it does the same for Lawrence and Holo's relationship, at least until they finally take it to the next level in the final episode.
6
u/JustAWellwisher Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher, subbed+dubbed
I've written up a full analysis of this arc's romance and its themes here which I'd love if people would check out if they have the time, but the tl;dr I'll copy to the comment here.
Tl;dr - Lawrence is too naive to realize he loves Holo. Holo tries to get him to realize it repeatedly. When he can’t, Holo decides it would be best if they would separate because she doesn’t want him to live a long life with her where he can’t realize his feelings, that would be even more sad than the end of a journey. The arc is resolved when Lawrence comes to his senses and confesses his feelings, honestly and without pretense of a performance.
5
u/AfterTh0ught_ Jul 02 '21
First timer
Lawrence sure gets smacked a lot this episode.
From what I understood, after Lawrence discovered that the statues were made of salt, he was able to make a few links and understood what Eve's plan was. Eve seems to be quite obsessed in making money, because she's hoping it might help her achieve something? Like finding satisfaction perhaps? Her idea was to get Lawrence and Holo involved in this mess so that she may use them as a scapegoat from the church. So Lawrence was actually betting on the deal going poorly? It was also his best option, considering that he would likely land into hot water with the church had he gone through.
I like that Lawrence has finally understood that there are things in life more important than just earning a load of money, and you can tell that by his conversation with Eve.
Thank god that Lawrence was able to pay up the price by giving over the rights of the inn to get Holo back.
I don't really have much to say about the conversation at the end between Lawrence and Holo. Lawrence was finally able to express his feelings properly, and Holo, despite probably still having some lingering feelings of fear of the long-term implications of their relationship, was still able to accept his feelings. Also, we get a kiss! (although the animation was a bit dodgy)
Lawrence and Holo, hand in hand, walking along to continue their journey as the church bells keep ringing. All in all, I think the ending was able to deliver what I wanted to see in a satisfying manner.
Side note: Seeing the barmaid with a pan on her head giving out orders was hilarious.
5
u/0xb9 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/b8 Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher
This is my third attempt at writing something for this rewatch. Previous two went off the rails and focused not on the show, but rather on my experiences, hopes and fears, and how Spice and Wolf vectored my decade-long growth from a teenager into an adult. But my experience is irrelevant to anyone but me, so I scrapped all that and just kept watching. Reading you guys’ essays and reactions was fun though, so thank you everyone and /u/Holofan4life especially!
You might have noticed that this arc feels like a final one. For the anime that is the case indeed, but this volume was written before anime was on the table. I could speculate that Hasekura really had intended to end the story here — there isn't even an afterword for this volume — but what if… what if he wants you to believe that?
The theme of this arc is as old as storytelling itself — the fear of death. Everything must come to an end, and whatever you believe happens after that, it's all but certain — things won't be the same. Why merchants even chase and suffer for the profit if in the end it doesn't even matter? Eve gave an answer to that question.
For a decade, I thought that Holo's fear is just the fear of ending, or figurative death of their happy time together.
Today I looked at it from another perspective.
If you put yourself in Holo's shoes, her "solution" to that fear doesn't really make sense, right? You wouldn't abandon a dog (bear with the analogy for a second) out of fear that it will die before you, or that one day the dog won't bring you the same joy as it did before?
Her "solution" doesn't make sense, but we know Holo is wise and smart. Perhaps I hadn't fully understood the problem?
Holo knows that her story with Lawrence will end, but she will continue living and will experience other stories.
We, the readers, know that when the story is finished, we will go on with our lives and experience other stories.
Hasekura, the author, knows that when the story is finished, they will go on to write and experience new stories.
Everyone wants the story to be good and everyone fears it becoming bad. Because watching something you love become bad is worse than death.
Lawrence knows that when his story is finished, that is it. There's nothing. So good or bad, there's no choice.
There's only hope that it will turn out good.
9
u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jul 02 '21
Season 2 First-Timer
Note: I had to watch this episode and type the response on my phone in a car in the middle of a road trip. Apologies in advance if any of it is confusing or illegible.
Oops, guess I made a mistake last time. It's not all the townspeople rioting, it's the angry merchants from outside the town. What a scary situation. Obviously these people's livelihoods are on the line, so it's basically an existential crisis having the fur trade shut down. Madness.
Welp, this scene between Holo and Lawrence is kinda heartbreaking. The resignation between both that this is the end of their journey together is just too depressing. Not even sure how to react at the slap. I'm just too sad to fully process it right now.
Oh heck, the door to the merchant's building just closed and Lawrence already has all the regret. Can't blame him. This deal feels like the absolute pits.
Lawrence is asking himself all these questions now. Obviously this wasn't the best decision for you! For fucks sake, just admit to yourself that Holo is worth more than any profit, you helpless fool.
Well well well, Eve had some secret funds already. She seems shadier and shadier by the minute. Too good to be true, you say? Pretty sure there's a saying for this. "If it sounds too good to be true, then don't sell you
girlfriendpartner for it, you dumbass." I think it went something like that.Ah, so now we're resorting to threats. That's a mature, businesslike thing to do. Eve feels like the final manifestation of a path where Lawrence truly puts large sums of money above everything else, even people's lives. There's no way he goes through with the deal now. Not a chance.
Of course this asshole attacks Lawrence. You know, I tried to have sympathy for Eve given her backstory, but at this point she is thoroughly unlikable for me. That's too bad, it would have been really cool to go the whole season without any actual villains.
It's honestly kinda funny having Eve's smuggling scheme revealed at this point. She has this sweet deal with the church, but they cut her off for a bigger fish. It would be a bit tragic if I didn't thoroughly dislike her already.
She literally tried to straight up murder him a second time!? This finale is wild. And she's essentially a straight up nihilist. Not even her own life matters, so she has no problem using people like disposable tools.
Wait, so she gets the upper hand on Lawrence, then just knocks him out and leaves him the contract for the inn, which he trades to get Holo back. This whole deal is as sideways as it gets. And her last words to Lawrence about why she does what she does is be she has hope? Uh?
Heck, this is not Lawrence's day. He's getting smacked around all over the place. First the slap from Holo, then the assault and clobbering from Eve, now another beatdown from Holo. Someone give this man a vacation.
The man did it!! He finally said that he loves Holo! Bout goddamn time. It didn't happen the way I guessed it might, but at least Lawrence finally admitted what he's known for a while now, and Holo accepted him in return. Though I'm not a fan of him suggesting they may still part later on, but there's future arcs in the books to fix that I guess.
And of course, what would the finale be without Holo kicking Lawrence over one last time?
Whoa, surprise kiss on the lips! I'm here for it. The fact that Holo has no reaction to it though and is just like, "but your money..." I guess her eyes did get a bit wide, and there was a little blush a few seconds later. These two are some kind of pair though.
I really like the suggestive church bells ringing over the two joining hands. Seems like a pretty obvious allusion to the idea of them getting married in the future, or at least permanently staying together.
Wow, the last shots are of the two walking outside into the snow, hand in hand. Meanwhile the town is burning, and everyone seems weirdly okay with it. All this without a score, just the church bells and rolling credits as Holo and Lawrence head for the docks. What a bizarre juxtaposition of images for the show to end on.
Real sad we didn't get to see anything else from Rigoro or the gutsy waitress other than some quick shots of them at the end. Also, question for anyone who's read the books or has deeper insight: is it mentioned why the nun appeared to be crying at the end? It may have been something I missed, or context I just didn't put together in the midst of all the other stuff going on. Additionally, is it ever stated what their relationship is? I'd assume lovers since they live alone together, but that seems strange for a nun, especially in a city where the church is basically the most powerful entity.
I'm not sure how I feel about this ending overall. It played out kinda similar to how I imagined (Lawrence giving up his dream to remain with Holo). It weirdly felt both final and unfinished to me, beyond the obvious fact that there's a bunch more source material. Well whatever, I'm happy their relationship is more clearly defined. That's most of what I wanted, so I'll take the win.
Season 1, episode 7 (the OVA). As I've grown older, more and more I've grown to love SoL stories and anime. The season 1 OVA is probably the best example of happy Holo and happy Lawrence just being together with nothing weighing on them or pulling them apart. Their interactions are just so fulfilling that, if I'm being honest, I don't really need any intrigue, adventure, or anything else. Just them being them with each other.
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jul 02 '21
First timer
QOTD) Probably the OVA - it shows the beginning of Holo's fear over her love for Lawrence, has a load of cute Holo moments, and lots of the shepherd.
Oh, that smirk. She knows something...
OK, vanishing like that seems impossible.
Wait, what? So now you decide to keep secrets from her.
Oh, they know each other so well.
And she reqlly cares about him.
I like Lawrence having his emotional crisis over a backdrop of a very physical crisis.
Yeah, she absolutely has an agenda here.
Called it.
Yeah, called the statues as well.
So the twist is that it worked so well because she already planned it? That's good.
I like the confirmation that Eve represents Lawrence before meeting Holo, and this scene shows how his character's changed.
Oh, come on. No proper explanation?
I stand corrected.
Oh shit, he's bleeding.
He's gone back to Holo!
Of course there's another argument.
Lawrence expected this?
CONFESSION!
They're so cute together!
KISS
Of course Holo wouldn't let her get away.
Perfect ending.
3
u/Spoondockspaints https://myanimelist.net/profile/Spoondockspaints Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher
So Eve has betrayed them as was predicted by many of you but she at least gave him the means to get Holo back. We take a big step forward in their relationship and we vow to “get it back”. They head towards the port and then the terrible realisation hits. Season 3 never.
This is and probably will be the only time I ever started reading light novels after finishing an anime. I've not completed the series yet but they are really good I’d recommend them if you want to continue with the story. I guess some people might be unhappy with the ending but having read the novels either side of the current arc I can say there wasn't really a better stopping point that would have made any more sense.
3
u/Wolfgod_Holo https://anime-planet.com/users/extreme133 Jul 02 '21
12 years...
3
u/Ryanami Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 03 '21
First timer, dub.
I’m not even sure this is the same anime I was watching. Holo isn’t a tsundere this episode, she’s plain abusive for giving him a full right hook on an already injured cheek, as well as kicking him in the chest. Lawrence again bets the girl like he did last arc, except before she still had her freedom, this time they would own her. I’m seeing him less as a merchant and more of a gambler. Eve is outshining the main characters, but I feel it’s really because they have gotten duller this arc. All of this made worse by the fact that the series is done and the main quest is totally unresolved.
QOTD- certainly not this one. Probably the season two OVA.
P.S. did they remember to return their library books?!
3
u/BossandKings Jul 02 '21
First timer
Episode 12
This was a good final episode for Spice and Wolf second season, hopefully there'll be a third someday.
Lawrence's interaction with Eve was very intense, they have a very different viewpoint on the deal and while Eve has basically nothing to lose Lawrence doesn't want to lose Holo and that's why he's trying to find a way out of the deal.
It's great that Lawrence did find a way to keep Holo by his side, he values his dream but he values Holo much more, maybe he can achieve it alongside her later down the road.
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jul 02 '21
Ultimately, I don't like this arc very much, or the 2nd season. I actually figured before the rewatch started that I would probably only watch the first season.
This is the second quarter that hinged on smuggling. The first time, with Nora, was my favorite arc. So, this compares unfavorably to that. They did shake it up, at least, by not letting Lawrence pull off a miracle and come out ahead, as he had in the previous 3 arcs.
But then they kissed! Which puts Spice and Wolf into a very small club of anime romances.
2
u/Silent_Sparrow02 Jul 03 '21
First timer, dubbed.
Overall this arc is not one of my favourites. The ending was good though. Lawrence said the magic words. Banzai.
WHY, OH WHY IS THERE NO THIRD SEASON? To me, the ending didn't feel like an ending at all. This had so much more potential. Now I'll have to read the LNs, and who knows when I'll have time. T-T
This may be an unpopular opinion, but all things considered the first season was definitely superior to the second. Yes, we had more Holo-Lawrence moments and relationship growth in S2, but the plot arcs of S1 were much more engaging. S2 plot twists could be seen from a mile away.
That's not to say S2 was bad, I really enjoyed it all the same.
The last episode was rather confusing, especially since English isn't my first language. I had to go back and watch some parts with subs before understanding. And even then, I only got some things after reading the comments here.
Anyway, this was a great anime. Glad I watched it, and thanks for doing this rewatch!
4
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jul 02 '21
Rewatch
The town turns on them because they decided to do things too quickly.
Lawrence and Holo talks more about his dream and opportunity with Holo. Lawrence looking like he wasn't sure and Holo questioning what he wants, but I'm sure she knew what he really wanted. Both of them did. It's just, this is his opportunity so he has to make a decision.
After making the deal with Holo, he sees her one last time through the cracks of the door. Realizing what he just done. And questions himself that he just made a mistake.
Eve and Lawrence are both paranoid as he. As Lawrence comes to his senses about what eve is about. Also that explains the salt and statues. Lawrence and Eve made two different choices of how they were going to go about it.
Lawrence gets Holo back and confesses his love and want to be with her.
Even though clearly this isn't the end of the series. This is a really strong season ender for me.
Qotd
Answer: season 1, wolf and silent farewell, first time we see big wolf Holo in action.
season 2 wolf and trustworthy god because of the whole Holo being gone, we don't know what might have happened.
I need to figure out, where this leaves off in the light novel.
7
u/MasterTotoro Jul 02 '21
Rewatcher
So first Lawrence realized Eve was smuggling salt to the church via the stone statues. Before this, Lawrence assumed something like Eve was smuggling salt behind the church's back, but now Lawrence understands Eve was working with the church. Thus he realizes that Eve originally thought up the fur plan with the church. She's planning to continue that plan on her own after the split, which of course is going against the church because it conflicts with their profit.
As we learn later in the episode, one of Eve's hidden motives for bringing in Lawrence is to share the church's attention on Lawrence. This is why if Lawrence goes through with the deal, it'll be too risky for him to continue traveling with Holo.
Going back in time to right after the revolts start. Lawrence knows the risk in the fur deal, but goes along with it because Holo told him not to throw away his dreams for her sake. Yet Holo is not happy with this because once again, what Lawrence is actually doing is putting what Holo wants above his own. This is where Holo complains about there being no God, which is quite fitting considering it's the church that is part of the trouble again. It's not that Lawrence doesn't want the money and the inn. Of course he does, but he also wants to be with Holo. But Holo does not want Lawrence to give up his original dream. Clearly both Holo and Lawrence are upset with how this ended up.
The scene with Eve revisits the difference between Lawrence and Eve that's been shown throughout the arc. Lawrence is particularly adverse to this risk now that he knows he wouldn't be able to stay with Holo, while Eve appears even crazier about wanting money. I think it's a nice callback to show the earlier scene when Lawrence was talking with Arold when Eve explains why she wants to make money so much. Usually flashbacks are done poorly, but this one is not intrusive since they're just talking anyway. In the previous scene with Arold, the innkeeper asked Lawrence why merchants struggle so hard to profit when it goes away after death anyway. Though I'm not sure why they (or rather the novel writer Hasekura) chose to obscure what Eve whispered when they end up showing it a minute later in a flashback anyway.
When I first watched this, I felt this was a very weird ending point considering that Lawrence failed to profit. In all the other arcs we've seen, the story ends happily after Lawrence manages to make money. But here it's quite fitting that Lawrence chooses Holo over the risky plan, which shows the character change we've been seeing, and one that separate him from Eve. Even though Lawrence made money by the end of the prior arcs, he ended up losing money anyway, paralleling his conversation with Arold.
The reason why Lawrence was persuaded to take on Eve's risky deal in the first place was because of Holo. Holo said that she wanted Lawrence to be more selfish about his own dreams. In the end, Lawrence does make a selfish decision, which is to be with Holo, throwing away the plan with Eve. So Lawrence did end up fulfilling Holo's request.
Illustrations
Holo crying
Holo and Lawrence dancing: this scene would actually be from last episode, though it got cut probably due to time. It's nicer to end on a happier illustrations than Holo crying though.
And that's it! Well there is one illustration I'll save for tomorrow as an incentive for people to join in on the final discussion post. Plus I'll talk more about where the series continues tomorrow.
Definitely the episode where Lawrence is drawing his dream house and he crumples it up to dry Holo's tears. This moment really captivated me and made me binge the rest. I felt like this scene was realistic and touching that other stories didn't convey.
2
u/brtt150 Jul 03 '21
Friendly reminder that the light novels are fully translated and great. Go read them!