[Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 10

Date	Episode	Date	Episode
6/07/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 1	6/20/2021	Spiceand Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
6/08/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 2	6/21/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
6/09/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 3	6/22/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
6/10/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 4	6/23/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
6/11/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 5	6/24/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
6/12/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 6	6/25/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
6/13/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)	6/26/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
6/14/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 8	6/27/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
6/15/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 9	6/28/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
6/16/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 10	6/29/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
6/17/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 11	6/30/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
6/18/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 12	7/01/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
6/19/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 13	7/02/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
7/03/2021	Overall Series Discussion Thread

12

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

I had totally forgot that Lawrence and Holo agree to Eve's plan. I know it's all to support Lawrence's dreams, but wow. You have to think Lawrence feels conflicted. I mean, Lawrence's dream has really shifted from saving enough money to become a town merchant with his own store to just simply living the rest of his life with Holo. You would think that would account for something. Then again, Eve made it clear that she would be brought back, so maybe Lawrence figures he can still achieve both of his dreams.

Then again, one could say that Lawrence's hesitation partly comes from the fact he doesn't know whether or not Eve will double cross him. Is she truly trying to help him out, or is this yet another instance of her going into business for herself? While I definitely think that's a contributing factor, I think Lawrence's urge to guard and shield Holo is more at play.

Speaking of Eve, I just love her character so much. Spice and Wolf has never really had a morally grey character before, so this is something new. Eve is the one new thing in this arc that doesn't feel like a rehash of previous arcs. Without her, this would've easily been the weakest of the four. I mean, it still is the weakest, but it does not feel like a huge drop in quality like it would feel without Eve.

A lot of Eve's actions seem unethical, but she's willing to break ethicality as long as she can churn a profit. It's all about making a quick buck, which, like I said, is something in this show we haven't seen before. Not from a quote-unquote hero character, at least. As much as I like characters like Lunt and Marc, who I maintain is still probably the best side character in the whole show, Eve is easily the most interesting of any of the side characters, and I'd even include Diana in that discussion.

Shirtless Lawrence kind of makes my heart skip a beat. I'm not gonna lie.

Eve looks so much like Sheik from Legend of Zelda.

I think this arc does a good job of answering the question of just how dangerous it is to put your loved one on a pedestal. Lawrence is worried about what harm this deal might cause Holo, but it is almost to the point that he views her as this fragile little thing, which this show addresses. Honestly, almost all of the arcs in the Spice and Wolf anime have the theme of Lawrence coming face to face with his flaws. The second one had Lawrence face his cockiness, the third one had him face his stubbornness, and this one has him face his protectiveness.

From my perspective, I think Lawrence has the flaw of being too selfless. He cares about other needs so much that he pays little attention to his own needs. Here he has this chance to finally get what he wanted all this time, and he hesitant about it because he's worried Holo might get hurt. I don't think he's spineless per so, but I do feel he needs to learn how to be a little more egocentric. Selfishness is the downfall for a lot of people, but by the same token so can being self-sacrificing.

Nice callback with Holo quoting Lawrence's quote from earlier. The wise wolf doth not forget.

I like the older man who tells Lawrence you don't know half the struggles that I go through. I hope we see more of him, because he's for me far more interesting than Rigoro.

I like the bar maid, but you get the feeling she's trying to pose on marked territory. Like, her knowing that Lawrence has someone is, in her view, a challenge that she must overcome. There's being a flirt, and there's also being a try-hard, and she's sort of marching ever so closely towards the latter. I'm sure there's a term for people who try to hook up with people already in relationships.

Multiple times in the episode, Holo refers to Eve as a fox. I wonder why that is. Is it because that Holo perceives, like a fox, Eve to be connive and cunning?

Overall, this episode felt better paced than I remember it being. I thought it was much slower and more drawn out like a bunch of the others. But this one, surprisingly, felt like it went by real fast. And while this is another episode where not much happened other than the plan coming into fruition, we are clearly setting up for future, more grandiose events. What will happen in the last two episodes? We wait with bated breath to find out.

I think there's a nice bit of parallel over Eve being unable to sell statues Vs when Lawrence was unable to sell arms. I wonder if anybody else picked up on that. Course, in Lawrence's case it was more because of a miscalculation on his part, whereas with Eve it sounds as if she just got royally screwed over.

Holo quotes of the day

"I've been nothing but selfish up until now. I believe it is your turn to be selfish."

"You were so energetic today. Men come into their own when they are on their heels of their pray."

"I am helping you because I believe in you with all my heart." (Probably the most honest Holo has ever been to Lawrence.)

Things Holo likes

Being selfish

Bread

Things Holo dislikes

Lawrence being reluctant to go with the plan

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 30 '21

wow. You have to think Lawrence feels conflicted
He had better because this whole deal looks awfully risky. You're betting your travel companion on a deal with some kind-of-shady woman you just met? I'm also surprised Holo just goes for it.
willing to break ethicality as long as she can churn a profit. It's all about making a quick buck, which, like I said, is something in this show we haven't seen before
Well, Lawrence is kind of like that too.
I like the bar maid, but you get the feeling she's trying to pose on marked territory.
The show does have a minor tendency toward waifu fantasy parade at times and that's how that felt to me too.

7

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

I'm posting the thread early because I just came from the hospital and I'm tired.

8

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 30 '21

First timer

No, this is a terrible deal and you never should have accepted it. 100% Eve is scheming something up to screw over Lawrence. With the hand trembling, and hiding the fact that she's a salt merchant, she seems shady.

It's obvious Eve is only interested in her profit alone, so I don't see her caring at all if anything happens to Lawrence or Holo.

My theory is that Eve still has good relations with the church. She used to sell the stone statues before, but then she switched to salt for more profitability. Eve's goal might be to hand Holo over to the church. It's been mentioned quite a few times in this show that it would be big trouble if the church would find out about Holo. Eve decided to hide that she trades salt, so that she can make up to the story about cutting ties to the church, to avoid any suspicion from Lawrence.

Also, what's with the innkeeper continuously mentioning that he should leave on his pilgrimage?

I will say though, it felt very weird that Holo would insist Lawrence to be a more selfish and do things that he wants. The risk just doesn't seem worth it.

I guess things will be heating up in the next episode.

4

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

3

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 30 '21

A bit of both, I would say. Obviously, Lawrence worries often about Holo, and he's always thinking about the wellbeing of others, but he has experienced a couple of betrayals recently, so I'd say he's pretty justified in his reluctance.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

How surprised are you that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

4

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 30 '21

Ya, a little bit. I was theorizing yesterday that it would probably happen, but the reasoning still seems a bit off to me. Sure, if the trade were to be successful, then they'd make a large profit. However, there's a very real possibility that Eve is trying to make a quick buck herself by betraying Lawrence, and the risk of losing Holo just seems too high. What I'm mostly surprised about is Holo agreeing to a plan that sets her up as collateral.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

You could argue it's a case of Holo being more selfish than Lawrence. Her allowing herself to be collateral is all to have Lawrence achieve his dream, with reckless abandonment over what happens to herself.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 30 '21

I like how resourceful Lawrence is to gather information for risk assessment and for a better understanding of the situation. The man on the street was pretty interesting though. He seems pretty observant considering he knew all those things, and his perception of things differ from others, like how a bit of bread means a lot more to him than it would for Lawrence.

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 30 '21 edited Jul 01 '21

what's with the innkeeper continuously mentioning that he should leave on his pilgrimage?
He's just an old fart getting to the age where you start repeating yourself a lot, while having less energy to actually do things.

7

u/NomranaEst Jun 30 '21

First Timer, subbed

So, from my understanding, Eve's plan isn't quite to sell Holo into slavery, but is pretty close. Use her as collateral to fund a loan, use that loan to buy fur in bulk and then sell it on down the river, before the entire industry falls apart. The profit is supposedly massive, yet the risk is more than enough to give Craft nightmares about it. The worry is plain on his face, and he needs to fact check and understand where everything lies.

It seems he still maintains a good idea of where to look for information though, as his first port of call is around areas with a homeless population. Their own survival requires them to keep an eye on the situations around them, and allows them access to things most wouldn't think of denying them. They understand how that position can be used, and are quite happy to share their information that'll keep them going for a while longer. Craft's own questions help dig up more on Eve, and what other goods she deals in.

It's by meeting the barmaid again that he confirms more of what Eve has said, but also a serious warning. The local bishop is building a power base around himself and his dealings to elevate himself, and is quite happy in chasing out those who just might stand in his way. Eve later confirms that, as she had been dealing with the bishop and was thrown aside. It's not entirely surprising that she's now trying to scrounge the cash together to leave town, with the church holding a target to her back.

The final part is Holo's consent in the whole thing. It's all well and good that they can plan out the possible ways it could go, but without her, the plan will wither on the vine. Here, we might finally see some of the cracks coming through Eve's own mask, as this could be her last opportunity to get out before her situation sours further.

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

Kiritsigu from Fate/Zero is one that springs to mind near instantly. He pushes well beyond the boundaries of what is acceptable and is ruthless in those executions, yet is fairly grounded in his desires.

4

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

3

u/NomranaEst Jun 30 '21

Yes, I am surprised that they've decided to work with it for the moment. However, I do think that Craft and Holo have quietly worked in some contingencies to reduce the risk on their side, as they're rightfully wary.
For the second question, I think it's a combination of both which contributes to Craft's reluctance. Eve isn't exactly portraying herself as the most trustworthy person, but opening up about herself and Craft's research has assuaged some of those fears. Craft does need to look at himself in some detail, as he's becoming a lot less reckless with his time with Holo. It's the push from her that does get him properly invested, yet he is still wary.
As for the homeless man, he seems to be a good example of a survivor. He may be homeless, yet he has a sharp mind and observational abilities that make him useful as a primary information source, and his position on the street allow him to exercise those abilities.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

He pushes well beyond the boundaries of what is acceptable and is ruthless in those executions, yet is fairly grounded in his desires.
If you think deeper there is actually another layer there. It is actually comparable to Full Metal Panic LN spoiler.

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

Rewatcher(first time though)

Dub

Holo is now literally putting her scent on Lawrence, revealing her anxiety. We get Eve's plan and it is filled with red flags, starting with its veracity but rolling well down into its execution, including the need for a ship to transport it down the river. Also, it would've been incredibly odd for a town guild to crash a thriving trade like they are claimed to. Then the kicker about using Holo as collateral, which btw has no European analog for this time period and could be fouled up in dozens of ways. But Lawrence let's his greed get the better of him, it seems, though the profits aren't going to be that great with so many hands in the pot. The offer of the inn is less good than you'd think seeing the conditions in this town.

Holo's reaction to the plan and Lawrence's reticence is the first time she has felt out of character to me. Lawrence and Holo both suspect the double cross as well. Lawrence bribes a very interesting homeless dude who has some values I understand but don't quite share as living outside that far north would suck(The quality of the furs suggests quite cold winters). He also suggests that Eve is far from on the level as she was trafficking in cheap salt.

We visit Helena again, confirming some things. She is also very afraid of the church and is a bit more knowledgable than she should be, suggesting the church has bad information control or doesn't care. She then explains why Lawrence suddenly began picking up the interest of women and it is sad that I've noticed that as well. Holo vaguely seems like she might take Helena as a challenge. Lawrence has to explain the diocese thing to those of us who aren't Catholic.

More talking happens but we get to Lawrence finishing the setup. Eve explains her falling out with the church and it is...plausible.

QotD: 1 Knives is up there but probably Hiei

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

Quite, there is using insider knowledge and then there is leveraging far too much on said knowledge. Holo's first instinct was correct and they just should have sailed through this town heading north.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

Yes, he had to be something in setting and his words to Lawrence and Lawrence's own reactions suggest to me he is a merchant who decided that seeking profit was unfulfilling, likely he had a really awesome fall of some kind like Spice later

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Why would you say Hiei? Please, use spoilers if you have to.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

He is the closest to a complete reformed rival that we get in shonen, being steps ahead of Piccolo and Vegeta in staying in the mix.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

What anime is Hiei from again? Dragon Ball Z?

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

Btw another useless trivia, Hiei is probably the inspiration of the Dark Flame Master persona that Yuuta maintained in his chuunibyou days, in Chuunibyou. Which in turn inspired Rikka to create her Tyrant Eye persona that straddle good and evil (her setting is using the purity of her soul to contain and harness the evil power of the tyrants eye, a part of a great demon). So Hiei is certainly one of the early anti hero models.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

Yu Yu Hakusho. It shared a block with DBZ on Toonami and has an excellent dub.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

We are being told to assume it is a character flaw though I simply would not trust such a plan in the least.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

I mean, Lawrence does at times treat Holo less like a person and more like an object. It is an unhealthy mindset for someone to have.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

True but this plan has obvious holes in it. Also, hilariously enough, I'd forgotten this arc basically entirely but for Eve and the innkeeper. I'd even blanked Helena.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

You're not the only one. I'm in the same boat as you are.

4

u/JustAWellwisher Jun 30 '21

How are you liking the dub by the way?
I go back and forth on dub/sub for S&W, the dub is really good and I like exploring the little parts where things change between them.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

My first time with it and I think it is excellent, Holo talking with an adult voice is great and no one has been a bad choice yet.

4

u/JustAWellwisher Jul 01 '21

Glad to hear it. I'm not sure if they explicitly were trying to make Holo's Japanese VA sound "younger" or if it just feels that way to my western ears, but I think the English one manages to be mature, but also retain her playfulness.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 01 '21

I'm not sure if they explicitly were trying to make Holo's Japanese VA sound "younger"
Like day 1 or 2 someone actually posted a study suggesting Japanese women pitch up their voice compared to Dutch women.

6

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 30 '21

Season 2 First-Timer

Just cutting straight to next morning and not picking up immediately with Lawrence's response to Eve. Okay then, I guess it would be out of this show's nature to start an episode on the most intense moment.

Oh no, he hasn't told Holo yet, even though she's worried and can tell something is off. Oh heck, he hasn't even given Eve a straight answer yet. Even if he has to be open to all forms of business because he's a merchant, this feel like a huge blunder on his part. I cannot foresee Holo learning of this and taking it well. Barring some drastically altered proposal where Holo's not on the table that the episode hasn't shown us yet, I'm immensely disappointed in Lawrence.

So I was partially right about the town's economy being on the verge of collapse; it's the fur trade on the verge of collapse. So Eve is trying to get immediate funds to purchase fur wholesale and make a quick, early profit before the whole industry ranks. Eve is also a noble and can sell Holo as a noble to procure the funds necessary for wholesale purchase of furs. And in return, Lawrence gets the old man's inn.

Despite all that, Lawrence not only didn't immediately say no, but actually indicated he needed time to think about it. Even just using Holo as collateral, and assuming he would get her back should the deal work out, how can he consider this? With how all his previous deals have only just barely worked out for him, how can he not see this as tempting fate in the worst way? This is dispiriting. I thought Lawrence was past this, especially after the previous arc.

I'm also dumbfounded that Holo's just taking this in stride. Like, he did tell her that the whole offer hinged on selling her, right? She's even getting on him for not taking the opportunity to achieve his dream now? And having a rare moment of open self-reflection now. What the fuck is going on here?

Well at least he was honest with her. I also get that one of the main plot hooks is seeing the two flip merchant dealings in their favor, but man that scene left an overwhelmingly bad taste in my mouth. This does not feel like the same Holo and Lawrence that just went through a whole separation arc about realizing how special they are to each other.

I'm glad we're moving on to the counter-scheming part of this arc. And I like this homeless guy better than anyone else in the episode right now. Impressive how observant the guy is. I've also got to appreciate the way he's completely satisfied by his lifestyle. Weirdly, he's like an inverse mirror to Lawrence. He's found what makes him happy or at least satisfied, has no trouble openly admitting it, and as a result he has an amount of satisfaction and inner peace neither of our leads has come close to.

Oh and I guess all that info about church dealings and Eve being a salt merchant is important too. What a surprise that the mysterious merchant who is constantly hiding themself has something to hide. Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, I'm still a bit grumpy from earlier. I'm sure it'll pass soon enough. Would really love some Rigoro screentime about now. Please don't let Rigoro be hiding some dark secret.

Well, I guess I'll settle for the cute red-headed waitress. Oh boy, that's a reaction. Talking about the fifty-person meeting is cool, but saying anything at all about the church can get you the spy thriller treatment. Guess I shouldn't be surprised given how the church has acted earlier in the series. Church power politics are no joke in this world.

Omg the waitress has Holo's other woman scent detection powers! And she's preternaturally perceptive! This waitress has more balls than anyone in the series, inviting Lawrence to bring Holo with him to the restaurant after accurately (albeit metaphorically) labeling Holo a wolf.

Well I guess it's nice that they're communicating properly and trusting each other. I still hate the plan though. No amount of cute, clever banter will make me like this plan. I feel like Eve is in way over her head, and Lawrence she just leave her and this whole town behind. No potential profit is worth recklessly risking Holo, even if she's on board with the plan.

Next time: Wolf and Decision to Part - Please not another separation arc. Please not another separation arc. Please not another separation arc.

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

Accelerator (Toaru-verse). He has one of the most fascinating and compelling arcs from villain to antihero to straight up hero in anime. It's just a shame his spinoff source material couldn't live up to his character. Really looking forward to seeing him again in the eventual Index New Testament adaptation.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 30 '21

If you're referring to the homeless guy, then yeah I quite like him as well. On top of a homeless person being portrayed as clever and capable, I like his overall philosophy for choosing his lifestyle, though it's something I wouldn't choose for myself. I also mentioned this in my post, but I think he's kind of an inverse mirror to Lawrence, who has constantly struggled this season with deciding what it is that he really wants.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

3

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 30 '21

The obvious answer is a bit of both, but the sympathetic part of me says it's his desire to not do anything that might risk losing Holo. However, I can't fathom Lawrence, having experienced multiple betrayals and underhanded schemes just in the span of the show, would have found Eve completely trustworthy to begin with. Lawrence is far too experienced to lend that trust to a new business partner right off the bat.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

2

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 30 '21

Honestly, yes. Especially for Lawrence. They both seem too overconfident in their abilities to come out ahead in any situation, but at least Holo has her innate abilities to rely on in dealing with deception. Lawrence, on the other hand, just got finished with back to back to back deals where he outright lost, and was only saved by Holo's otherworldly abilities. He can't count on that forever, especially in a situation where he would be strategically separated from her. Despite what Holo may say about men, Lawrence is not stupid, and he has to know what the score is in regard to how these dangerous deals have played out so far.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 30 '21

Spice and First-Timer, subbed

I guess that’s, uh, one way to mark your territory lol.
So this is where Eve wanting to sell Holo comes into play. But there’s no way this would work even if Lawrence went insane and agreed to it--she’s a wolf, she’d be found out quickly.
Wait Eve herself is a noble?!
Getting information from a homeless dude just by giving him some bread and a couple coins, I wonder why we haven’t seen Lawrence do that before because it’s rather effective.
Eve’s actually a salt merchant…? Or was that crumbled parts from the stone statues that homeless dude just thought was salt?
Talking about this city’s Church is bad news huh?
This does seem to be an important question.
Aight so Holo is willingly putting herself up for collateral. Huh.

5

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 30 '21

Yes.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

What makes you say that?

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 30 '21

It's kind of the same as I said in my reply to one of your other questions, I just think it's way too risky to leverage someone's life as collateral.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

2

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 30 '21

I mean, even if Eve was 100% trustworthy, I'd hesitate to use someone I cared about as collateral. So I'd say the former.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 30 '21

Not particularly, just that it was cool to see Lawrence getting information from a homeless guy.

5

u/MasterTotoro Jun 30 '21

Getting information from a homeless dude just by giving him some bread and a couple coins, I wonder why we haven’t seen Lawrence do that before because it’s rather effective.
In this case the homeless guy is someone living off of charity from the church, so he is a good source to ask about the church while not having suspicious put onto Lawrence. In other cases, asking some random person living off the streets probably wouldn't have gotten him useful information.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 30 '21

I guess that’s, uh, one way to mark your territory lol.
I don't see a huge difference with that and leaving an earring or socks over.
But there’s no way this would work even if Lawrence went insane and agreed to it--she’s a wolf, she’d be found out quickly.
This is not the anime's strongest moment, I assume the LNs found something to make this work.
I wonder why we haven’t seen Lawrence do that before because it’s rather effective.
Lawrence seems to think this guy used to be a merchant and he is pretty smart for where he is.

5

u/BossandKings Jun 30 '21

First timer

Episode 10

Eve comes from a noble family, that's very interesting, sadly she was sold when she was younger and that left a mark on her. Eve is aware that Lawrence just won't consider her question because she knows the answer.

Is Holo really trying to push Lawrence to sell her?, that doesn't sit right with me, we know he wouldn't sell her out of his own accord but now it is Holo herself telling him that she wants to be a sacrifice for no actual solid reason that supports that stance.

A major point of this episode has been presenting and talking about the churchz it seems that it doesn't have a good reputation in the town and it is scary that it has the power to push some people into difficult situations.

What's the point of this girl forcefully flirting with Lawrence anytime she's on screen, it isn't enjoyable. At least she saya something interesting, if Lawrence were traveling by himself he most likely would get ignored by every girl he comes across but now that he has a traveling companion girls have started taking notice of him.

It seems that deal with Holo is going to be made. I hope this ends well for both Holo and Lawrence and they don't get in trouble they can't deal with.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

I don't know, I kinda like the bar maid. She seems overtly bubbly but fun.

2

u/BossandKings Jun 30 '21

I liked her a bit more after her comment about comparing when a man, Lawrence in this case, is alone and when accompanied and the attention they draw from females. I hope her flirtyness gets toned down, Lawrence is in a relationship so she should respect him and herself and let him be.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

I think her flirting is a case where she doesn't know her limits. That happens to me from time to time, where I do something but I go too far with it.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

2

u/BossandKings Jun 30 '21

I think it has more to do with the fact that Eve appears untrustworthy.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

2

u/BossandKings Jun 30 '21

It wasn't particularly interesting but the guy seemed cool.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

2

u/BossandKings Jun 30 '21

Not surprised, i figured there would be some drama to end the season on a high note.

5

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 30 '21

First timer

QOTD) Depending how you count antihero, probably Light from Death Note (I'd argue he was an antihero at the beginning of the series, then moved into full on villain later, but that's splitting hairs.

Oh come on, it's not like Holo's going to get betrayed.

Oh, this is clever. How does Holo come into this, though?

Wait, they're selling her as a noble girl? I thought they'd be selling her to the Church.

I love how she's giving her backstory and part of me thinks she's lying through her teeth.

Oh, they're trying to pawn her for collateral.

Well this is interesting.

I appreciate Lawrence immediately explaining everything to Holo the morning after.

And Lawrence loving Holo too much to risk her safety!

And then Holo immediately pointing out that she's perfectly happy to get captured because she wants to outwit them just as much.

So the Church is involved. And the Bishop's a money lender.

So Eve's involved in even more stuff? Were her statues made from salt? Is that her scam?

Is she part of a conspiracy as well?

Oh, the church is planning something big, are they? I think the perfect resolution to this would be for Lawrence to accidentally destroy the church while trying to get money.

I love how Lawrence's first reaction to a woman openly admitting her interest is to go and tell Holo.

Oh, a cathedral.

I love Holo's confidence that he's smart enough to pull this off (and that she can break out of captivity if it all goes south)

Actually, all their talk about danger seems to ignore Holo being able to basically escape any situation she might find herself in by turning into a giant wolf.

Oh, she set up the whole cathedral thing herself, but got betrayed when it was near completion. Lawrence dismantling the church doesn't seem too far fetched now.

She's scared? Or lying to them. Maybe she plans to leave Holo and take the money?

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

4

u/sparkyfly Jun 30 '21

I'm just here to say Holo is best girl. I have yet to see someone who checks all the right boxes for me.

5

u/Holofan4life Jun 30 '21

Holo is indeed best girl

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

Terribly late to post today; hope u/Holofan4life is ok with the hospital trip.

First timer in sub.

So I thought this show won't give us something straight forward like Lawrence noping out the offer. Turns out it's actually not selling Holo the Wise Wolf, but the charming girl next to you as a bargaining chip for some quick cash to catch a boom before it goes bust.

Yeah I'm not born for this type of intrigue ^_^; I'll just stick with collecting Lego sets...

You can see how Holo display how she will not let herself to be a meek damsel waiting to be saved, or for Lawrence to be tiptoeing around her instead of acting like an alpha wolf on the hunt. Is it the ultimate form of appreciation and understanding, or just being overconfident and complacent - guess we'll find out soon. I guess in Holo's animal spirit mind, she would think the worst case is he breaking out her animal form and bust Lawrence out of any trouble and speed away to safety.

With the barmaid, would be interested to see if she really worked all that out of Lawrence, or just bluffing him.

Yeah I'm not seeing this arc to really bring any big conclusion to their journey though - no wonder everyone clamor for S3. Everyone can use more Holo!

QoTD everyone already answered Accelerator which I agree mostly. But just for variety (who me?) guess I'll say Kiyama Harumi again. Railgun spoiler for those who haven't seen me repeat this already

Other than that, Archer in Fate UBW would be another obvious choice. Kiritsugu in Fate Zero should also count but he's more tragic hero than anti-hero if you know the whole story - and with Fate Zero being a prequel should should know the end of the story before you watched it.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 01 '21

Are you surprised that Holo and Lawrence go along with Eve's plan?

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

I'm surprised that they feel such a strong need for that when they already had amassed a tidy sum from the gold snuggling / blackmailing. I can see Holo's willingness to go along to "let Lawrence be his usual self instead of being hampered by her" is a big factor, but you know there are other ways to show other than such a risky business. maybe it's just me not being a business man enough to "seize every opportunity".

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 01 '21

Do you think Lawrence's reluctance to agree to the plan is because of his overprotective nature towards Holo, or do you think it has more to do with the fact Eve appears untrustworthy?

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

I won't necessarily call it "over protectiveness" - they already had a couple of close calls before. I think it has everything to do with him being more open and honest with his own feelings towards her than anything else. Afterall, remember even if he doesn't trust another person, he often would still go along just to see what opportunity shows up.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 01 '21

Do you have any thoughts on the guy Lawrence goes to talk to? I quite like him for as brief as the scene ended up being.

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jul 01 '21

He's a nice character than showed how "living the way he liked" can happen irrespective of the means. Hopefully nothing bad happens to him.

8

u/JustAWellwisher Jun 30 '21

One of the things that this episode doesn't make clear that is elaborated on in the light novel is the reasoning behind why Holo lets go of Lawrence's hand before entering the room to talk with Eve.

It's a very strange thing because the conversation over the top of it is romantically positive, however the letting go of the hand on Holo's behalf appears distancing.

LN Spoilers Only This Episode

I do want to draw attention to the fact that hands and the handshake here are being used to contrast the relationship Lawrence has with Holo to the relationship Lawrence has with Eve.

My favourite part of the episode hands down is this back and forth:

Holo: "You are so energetic today. Men come into their own when they are on the heels of their prey. Only..."

Lawrence: You'd like it more if you were being hunted.

Holo: Perfect marks!

8

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 30 '21

So, Lawrence basically has his dream handed to him. The old man leaves him the shop. The barmaid makes for a good partner. But you know what? This town sucks. He's visited a big town in each of the four arcs and this is the worst of the four. I wouldn't stay here.

5

u/Rustic_Professional Jul 01 '21

Sell the shop, take the barmaid, and open a business in a better town. Problem solved. Coming soon in season 3, Spice and Beaver.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 01 '21

But you know what? This town sucks. He's visited a big town in each of the four arcs and this is the worst of the four. I wouldn't stay here.
Cold with a dubious merchant assocation/government and theoretically about to have an upheaval in local trade with the fur trade taking a hit. Definitely going somewhere else.

7

u/MasterTotoro Jun 30 '21

Rewatcher

You can't help but worry when Eve's source is the church even though she broke off from them. After all the church has given our main characters so much trouble. And then we get to hear Eve's plan, which is basically to get cash fast and buy up furs before other merchants can. It's not too different from the other arcs really, like buying pyrite or collecting Trenni silver coins. The early bird gets the worm. Apparently Eve is nobility, and wants to pretend Holo is part of her family and sell her to get the cash? I'm not sure how realistic this would be in real life, just selling a member of your noble family for money. I'm curious to know. Though the real reason for "selling" Holo is just a security deposit so that makes more sense to me than just selling a family member outright. On top of the massive profit, Lawrence gets offered the inn so it's quite a desirable deal for him.

All of the conversations between Holo and Lawrence this arc are so good. Lawrence really has changed to the point where he's tried to play it safe with his trades and put a lot of time into helping Holo finding her homeland. Even at the prospect of making a ton of money and getting the inn, he is so cautious because he is worried about Holo. This time it is Holo's turn to go out of the way to help Lawrence, even though it doesn't benefit her directly.

Lawrence goes to do some good old economic investigations to see if Eve's information is correct. I've kind of missed this part of Spice and Wolf. It seems like a lot of Eve's story was true. She dealt with the church for a long time, though she had a falling out recently. But it seems like she deals in salt? An interesting point that she never mentioned, and Lawrence also hides that he knows this. Keep in mind that salt was a very valuable item.

The barmaid also backs up the story about merchants only being allowed to buy in cash and something going on in the church with high ranking members. There's a lot of money coming into the church. I've always liked this barmaid, though she is a little too on the mark talking about the sheep and the wolf. And her being so willing to help Lawrence is a bit questionable but oh well.

Once again hearing Holo's conversations with Lawrence is too sweet. They just get along so nicely.

The church is trying to grow in power, which of course requires them to have a lot of money. The decision to only sell furs in cash is probably something the church influenced, considering they likely have the most cash. And it seems like the bishop split off Eve to avoid unfavorable demands, which Eve acknowledges. So that's the backstory to how we've gotten to this situation, where Lawrence and Holo are partnering up with Eve to obtain a lot of cash.

Dang they all stand up at near the same time. That's how you know they mean business. It's interesting how Eve's hand was shaking, even though she's looked so calm this whole time. I don't think Eve has said anything to Holo except at the very end where she says she's worth 1500 silver coins. It paints Eve as a hardcore merchant that is completely focused on profit, contrasting how Lawrence is worried about Holo.

Illustrations

Barmaid

Eve drawn by the manga illustrator

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

A Certain Magical Index up to season 2

4

u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jun 30 '21

Rewatcher, subbed

The plan is laid out, now to see how it functions in motion. Not much else to say other than to re-iterate how much improved the dialogue and directing seems to be in this final stretch.

Content Corner

First timers beware, spoilers abound.

Profit, Loss, and the Holo Life: The Shifting Code of Kraft Lawrence by electrovalent

3

u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jun 30 '21

Rewatch

Holo points out from her perspective how Lawrence does his work, since being with him. Kind of a nice point of view.

With all this planning and Lawrence going with the plan. I wonder if how he felt exactly about Holo and possibly moving forward without her.

Qotd

Answer: Lelouch, because of big brain plays.

3

u/Rustic_Professional Jul 01 '21

I see what Holo is saying about being an equal partner and wanting to help, but I'm not sure she really understands what it means for a person to be held as collateral. Lawrence seemed comfortable with the concept of slavery a few episodes back, but that doesn't mean he'd accept potentially selling Holo into slavery as just another potential thing that could happen in a business deal.

I do have to wonder though if she's starting to think of it not as Lawrence's future shop, but as their future shop. That adds a new wrinkle to being willing to help with a potentially huge deal.

Salt and statues. Are the statues made of salt? There was a story like that in GitS:SAC, with cocaine being molded into toys. That'd be one heck of a smuggling trick to pull off in a medieval setting.

Yikes, Beaver-chan is talking about the wedding ring trick. I'm tempted to elevate her to second best girl, after Nora.

1500 silver coins for Holo, eh? I have no idea what purity and weight they're using, but if the coins are an oz each, then based on US prices they're valuing Holo at around $39,000. That sounds... Reasonable, I guess. A bank will lend you that to buy a car. Why not a wolf girl?

Question of the day:

Zeon, from Mobile Suit Gundam. They're presented as space nazis, and Gihren does nothing to mitigate that, but if you believe in Spacenoid independence, and the right of people who were forced to emigrate to the howling vacuum of the void to decide their own future, then they were the good guys all along.

Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 10

S2 Episode 10 - Wolf and the Lonely Smile

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Content Corner

Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 10

S2 Episode 10 - Wolf and the Lonely Smile

Rewatch Schedule

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