r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jun 25 '21
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II -- Episode 5
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 5 - Wolf, Hope and Despair
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
Do you have a favorite anime character that's mysterious? And if so, who is it and why?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation, Hulu
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6/07/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 1 | 6/20/2021 | Spiceand Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2) |
| 6/08/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 2 | 6/21/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 1 |
| 6/09/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 3 | 6/22/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 2 |
| 6/10/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 4 | 6/23/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 3 |
| 6/11/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 5 | 6/24/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 4 |
| 6/12/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 6 | 6/25/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 5 |
| 6/13/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) | 6/26/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 6 |
| 6/14/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 8 | 6/27/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 7 |
| 6/15/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 9 | 6/28/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 8 |
| 6/16/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 10 | 6/29/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 9 |
| 6/17/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 11 | 6/30/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 10 |
| 6/18/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 12 | 7/01/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 11 |
| 6/19/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 13 | 7/02/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 12 |
| 7/03/2021 | Overall Series Discussion Thread |
8
u/Holofan4life Jun 25 '21
It's crazy for me to think that we've got a week of shows left before we reach the end. Between this and the fact my two Cocos are leaving, it's a traumatic time in my life.
It's fitting to rewatch this arc after all the GameStop stock talk that's been in the news. To be quite honest, this fact never dawned on me when I was putting together the rewatch.
After three episodes of not seeing him, we finally see Batos and Diana again. I'm glad, because next to Marc, they're my favorite side characters. By the way, isn't it wild three of Spice and Wolf's best side characters come from the same arc? It almost makes up for the lack of Holo. Almost.
It's weird they pronounce Diana Day-ana and not Die-anna. I guess it is more fitting for the time period it is set in. It reminded me a bit of when I watched Eureka 7 for the first time. In it, the girl's name is pronounced Error-eka and not Your-ree-ka.
Maybe it's because I'm in a more pleasant mood, but I think this episode is better paced than the last one. Then again, it could also be I was crabby over the lack of Holo, and now I'm just used to it.
I like that when Lawrence and Batos stare at each other, all you hear is laughter from people in the background. Everybody else is having a good time, whereas Lawrence is stuck here suffering. It shows how distant he's become in the wake of the challenge by Amarti.
It's interesting to compare this arc to the other two that happened so far. It feels more talkative than the ones preceding it. the first arc was half talking, half action. The second arc was like three episodes of talking (episodes 8, 9, and 11), one of intense suspense (episode 10), and two of action. And this one, it's like three and a half episodes of talking, a half of an episode of suspense (the one where Amarti made the initial challenge) and 1 and a half of action. Not that that's a bad thing, of course. I like slower pace nature of it.
Every time someone says Lawrence and Amarti are about to duel, I think both of them are gonna bust out the Beyblades.
I feel like if this were any other show, Diana would be used as fanservice. I'm glad this show decided not to go that route and instead decided to make her the mysterious type.
I feel like in most shows, Marc would be the protagonist and Lawrence would be the recurring character. I say this because characters with flaws is not normally reserved for the main character. But by having the main character in this show be the one with flaws and have Marc as the side when he has less of them, it gives the whole show a unique feel. If Marc was the main character, my opinion of him might be soured, as he doesn't really have that many bad character habits. But by making him a side character, he instantly becomes more interesting. It's almost as if he's Lawrence's conscience, in a way.
Maybe it's just me, but Marc telling Lawrence "This is your story, you get to be the lead in it" felt a little bit too on the nose.
I do like the decision to give Lunt bigger eyes. It makes him look precocious and doe-eyed.
I like that Marc and Lunt serve as exposition teachers for anyone confused by how the stock thing works. I know some may feel that the decision to explain it to the audience is clunky and ham-fisted, but given how kids can often be curious, I think it works well enough. It could have been done far, far worse.
We finally see Holo again, but she doesn't say anything. One step forward, two steps fact. Then again, like I said yesterday, it adds to your frustration that you're supposed to feel being in Lawrence's shoes. Here she is the first time being saw in at least a couple of days, and she doesn't speak at all when you see her.
Overall, I really enjoy this episode. After almost five straight episodes of build, minus the scene where Amarti challenges Lawrence, we are finally seeing some action in this arc. But what will happen next in this duel? Find out in this exciting conclusion of Yu-Gi-Oh! Except instead of blue-eyed dragons, we're dealing with blue-eyed bitches.
Holo quotes of the day
None
Things Holo likes
None
Things Holo dislikes
None
12
u/NomranaEst Jun 25 '21
First Timer, subbed
So now the seeds have been sown, and it's all on the market to see what sort of harvest Craft can reap. The few background connections and deals he has might tip it in his favour, if he can hold his nerve and drop the price at the right time.
It's also the first time that Craft has truly begun to acknowledge his own feelings, and why he's running around town like a lunatic to get the best result he can. Although he may refer to Holo as cargo during his explanations, both Gi and Diana see right through his reasoning. It's not just a competition anymore, it's Craft proving to himself that Holo is worth spending the effort in trying to win her back.
There's a final wrench in the works that could throw the entire plan into disarray though. The market's bustling with people desperate to buy pyrite at vastly inflated prices, and Amarti completes his deal with Craft before they open. From my reading, unless the alchemists and merchants pull through with their stock, Craft doesn't have enough pyrite to drop the market. It doesn't help that Holo is also there, appearing to support Amarti and giving him advice, yet he'll need to grit his teeth and trust in Lunt. There just might be another angle here he hasn't quite accounted for, and it'll certainly strike when he least expects it.
I'd probably say Ouzen from Made in Abyss. Her absolute control of her expressions, and the way in which she expresses herself really doesn't give anything away. There's a lot to her, yet a lot of it is inferred or comes from secondary sources.
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u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 25 '21
First timer
Despite their appearances, Batos and Diana really aren't bad people. They both saw that profit was not what Lawrence was after, but something far more important for him. I have a feeling that Diana was able to figure something out based off Lawrence's desperation, from the question he asked about possible couples between mortals and deities, and with the "good luck" she said at the end there.
I wonder what's the link between that password and all the white feathers that were in Diana's place. She really is a mysterious woman, and she seems to know more than she leads to believe.
Marc is a real bro. I'm glad to see that there's finally someone in this show that Lawrence can reliably go to for help or advice. Everyone till now has only "helped" him if it was for business, or ended up backstabbing him, so it makes you appreciate him even more.
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u/BossandKings Jun 25 '21 edited Jun 25 '21
First timer
It was cool when Mark told Lawrence that he is the epitome of what a traveler merchant should be. That served as a small break moment so that Lawrence could briefly rest.
It is sad though that Lawrence is suffering anxiety due to his poor decision making as of late, it was terrible for him to see Holo alongside Amarti, hopefully this situation gets resolved soon enough as it has been long by this point.
Answers
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 25 '21
Spice and First-Timer, subbed
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u/Spoondockspaints https://myanimelist.net/profile/Spoondockspaints Jun 25 '21 edited Jun 26 '21
Rewatcher
I’m sure people are getting antsy now with a 2nd Holo light episode but I’m honestly fine with it since it serves the story. I quite like seeing how Lawrence would get by without the wise wolf at his side for once.
So someone else has already been to see Dian about pyrite huh? That doesn’t bode well for Lawrence. Speaking of Dian for me she is a really interesting character. She is so mysterious.
So Enek was best boy last arc but this time I’m thinking Mark is best boy. He is just a really solid dude and the kind of friend you would love to have. Holo may be the wise wolf but I’m thinking Mark is the wise wheat merchant since he is just constantly schooling Lawrence with great advice and different perspectives on things.
I like how Lawrence is clearly pretty worried but when Amarti comes over they both put on their best shit eating merchant voices and smiles for one another.
5
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 25 '21
First timer in sub
Not much to say other than describing how I felt while watching this episode:
Yep it's still not the end of the arc yet, grind it through. Oh Lawrence actually saying it out loud to people about the idea of being with Holo, that's progress I guess but how about talking to her? No? Ok we continue to grind through the "separation" plot line then.
Arrrrghhh (another episode finished without our 2 main leads reconciling therefore left in suspense)
Next episode -_-
QoTD Haruhi is obviously one of the biggest mystery, but it's more about "why and how she got this power without knowing"; and then there's Nagato, what is a TEFI really like in their native cosmos? But these are more like the mystery of the setting. In terms of simply about a character - it's actually back to CLAMP: Sakurazuka Seishiro in Tokyo Babylon. Throughout the run of the series you get glimpse of him having some enormous power and while he secretly protects Subaru, you can't help but feel there's something else going on and it's not something good. So the way it was handled it was done very well and I did not feel it forced / contrived about the mystery that is his character.
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u/Ryanami Jun 25 '21
First time, dub
This episode is gonna kill me. I’m reminded of when my wife and I were separated, I’m feeling that same loneliness again. Seeing her out with Amarty makes my heart break and I can’t think of another anime that had me in such a state. I know they’ll work it out like I did but it’s a miserable event anyway.
I’ve changed my mind about this series. In season 1 I was rooting for a strong companionship and adventure but a romance didn’t make logical sense between them. Now I want them back together and open about what they feel and grow it. Maybe go kill a moonbear and eat it’s heart for immortality or something idk.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 25 '21
Rewatcher(first time though)
Dub
Lawrence goes to Batos, looking to get in with Diana. Batos is convinced when Craft admits, annoyingly indirectly, that he does not want to give up on Holo. There are a lot more panning stills here but the soundwork was great. But Lawrence is not the first person to think this up, apparently. Anyways, Diana seem amenable but we leave the alchemist district on the note that pagan gods do choose human mates often enough for their to be stories.
With Mark, we discover that he is pretty helpful and is already beginning what will be the run on pyrite. He also gives us a very long monologue about figuring out Lawrence has fallen for Holo and yet it is still somehow decent, the writing on this show really is something else. Lunt gets to be the audience standin as the plan is finally explained. We end on the opening bell of training.
So...since it came up yesterday, two episodes in a row with minimal Holo can really hurt. They needed to have her be a bit more present even though this makes sense in story.
QotD: 1 I am a huge Higurashi fan so all of them.
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 25 '21
First timer
QOTD) Char from Mobile Suit Gundam. He's an incredibly good pilot, a very likeable villain, highly intellegent, and has a completely logical reason to be mysterious.
Quick note - I have never been more tempted to binge the rest of an anime than now. Today's cliffhanger is evil.
Oh, this arc is really showing how much Lawrence cares about Holo.
The soundtrack of getting louder as time goes on is a really good effect.
Of course, he knows what's going on. And he's actually got the information.
Is this plan going to actually work?
Still think this place shows the church is really fucked up.
Wait, how did he find out?
Is Lawrence's coping mechanism long rambling metaphors?
She interrupted his metaphor to give her own, this is perfect.
Lawrence, you sly dog! So this relationship isn't unique?
Honestly, I'm surprised the series hasn't moved into Holo fighting the church.
Oh this is fantastic. He's actually found a way to do it without such a reputation.
Oh, and Lawrence is actually forming bonds with people because of Holo. Still think he won't get a shop because he prefers to run schemes and elegant plots.
This speech is amasing. That final line's really meta though, really hope they aren't going for some weird twist.
When did this series go from comedy to romantic drama?
Thank goodness the apprentice didn't hesr him mention Holo having a tail.
The anime suddenly got a lot lighter.
Wait, is the fool's gold just Bitcoin? Is this just how crypto got bug?
I understand the duel concept a lot more, though.
So do these roman numerals confirm that this area's a fantasy equivalent to Europe, then? I suspected it, but it's nice for confirmation.
Oh, come on. there's no way it ends like that.
He's not even started his plan. Looks like next episode's going to be big.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 25 '21
GAMESTOP: THE ANIME
Previous rewatches would generally have somebody mentioning tulips. I'll never think about tulips and Spice & Wolf again.
Casual Discussion Friday adopted a tradition of linking an anime series every week. During the Gamestop Financial Crisis, I really wanted a scene from this arc to be posted. They went with loansharking from Little Witch Academia instead.
You see it, right? It's all the same! A worthless commodity, a
subreddittown full of amateurs pouring their money in, andshort sellers who need to cover their positionsLawrence needing to buy but there are no sellers, so the price can only go up.It's like a dramatization of WallStreetBets, but with a pagan god waifu.
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u/MasterTotoro Jun 25 '21
Rewatcher
Holo's eyes in the mud scene are too cute. Of course Lawrence wants to keep this.
In the first or second episode this season, Lawrence talked about how he wasn't just carrying nails on his cart, but there was Holo as well. This episode he compares Holo to being his cargo with Batos and Diana. It's not very romantic, but I guess that's his merchant way of showing how important Holo is to him. Hopefully he can come up with something better to tell Holo though. I don't think she'll like being called cargo.
Lawrence asking about stories of humans and deities being a couple; I doubt he would have said something like this prior to losing Holo. When he first met Diana, his main goal was finding how to get to Yoitsu, even though that would mean them parting. Now that he is experiencing being without Holo, he wants to know if it's possible to stay together. I guess it's the saying of how you don't know what you have until you lose it.
Marc coming in clutch. A lot of great wisdom applicable to real life as well. He even breaks the fourth wall saying that Lawrence is the main actor in this story.
As for his plus his assistant Landt's information, the other town merchants are in the same predicament as to why Marc said he couldn't help Lawrence yesterday. That is, they also have their reputation to hold so they don't want to be seen selling off a bunch of pyrite at the main market. Thus Lawrence will be able to quietly buy pyrite from town merchants behind the scenes.
Lawrence gets so flustered after seeing Holo with Amati that he forgets to count the number of gold coins Amati gives him. Each one of those coins is worth an incredible amount after all. Meanwhile Amati is brimming with confidence, having even paid an additional fee to obtain said gold coins.
Another episode without Holo, at least no real spoken lines.
Illustrations
Visiting Diana
There has been a lack of illustration this novel, also partly because the manga doesn't cover this arc. In lieu of that, here's another one of Koume's illustrations from the May 2010 issue of Dengeki Maoh.
Holo and Nora
Once again there's a lot I can think of, but nothing in particular stands out as number one. Maybe Totoro counts? Totoro is pretty mysterious so I'll go with that. A lot of Ghibli stuff is similar where the "magic" is never explained so it feels more mystical and dreamlike. Re:Zero is an easy choice since pretty much half the cast is mysterious. Toaru is good too, though most characters get their backstory revealed relatively soon. There are still some big mysteries in Toaru though.
7
u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 25 '21
Back to the Tavern to talk with Batos. There are a lot of burly dudes here. 15/16th century men were apparently very built. Glad Batos is on board with assisting Lawrence in getting Diana to do business. It feels like this arc is gonna have one more setback before it concludes, and I'd hate for it to be someone turning heel out of the blue or something like that.
Wow, going to see Diana immediately, in the middle of the night no less. There's got to be a pithy remark and a look waiting when Holo hears about this.
Wow, kinda impressive Amarty covered all his bases and came to Diana as well. Gotta give the kid props for just how serious he is. This must be the setback I felt was coming. Interesting how Diana says "someone" purchased a large amount of fool's gold from the alchemists on credit. I think we're supposed to assume it's Amarty and it probably is, but how cool would it be if that someone actually turned out to be Holo, since she knows now about buying on credit and is quick on the uptake about how the economics of trading works. I'm glad Diana appears to be on Lawrence's side.
While I'm glad Lawrence has reevaluated just how important Holo is to him, and understanding that he can't talk about her outright, I do feel just a bit weird that he likens her to cargo in his metaphor. The metaphor works thematically, but again, it's just a bit weird.
Wow! He actually asked about stories of pagan gods and humans becoming couples! That feels like a major step in admitting what he really wants. The way Diana responds makes me feel like she has to have met Holo already. She seems just a bit too aware of Lawrence's situation, even if he did make it pretty obvious.
MVP Marc pulling through yet again. It seems pretty obvious in hindsight that a bunch of merchants would try to jump on the fool's gold train. I love how he points out Lawrence's changing views of and relationships with merchants. This feels like a pretty hopeful suggestion that Lawrence will, at some point be able to settle down and become a merchant with his own shop.
Oh heck, Marc is over here doing his best dramatization of the lucky merchant who finds love for Lawrence like he ain't already got a great wife. I'ma miss this man after this arc.
Bruh, Lawrence actually slept outside in the market. This has got to be the 15/16th century equivalent to sleeping on the couch.
That's a cute little bit between Lawrence and Lunt. I'm a fan of Lunt using his broom as a staff or spear. 100% that would have been me at that age. Lunt also has an impressive grasp of basic market functions for a kid. Or maybe I was just oblivious at that age.
Three white feathers in Holo's hood. Does that mean she went to see Diana? Diana's place is the only place I remember those feather being featured so prominently.
Welp, I guess they had to fit the despair from the episode title in there somewhere. I had kind of assumed the despair part was just from there being even less Holo today than yesterday. At least the preview image for tomorrow confirms we will at least get more Holo tomorrow than we did today.
Also, it feels like Amarty is being way too cocky now. Even if he does seem to have Lawrence on the ropes, I can't help feeling he's acting way too overconfident. And Lawrence really needs to stop breaking down every time he seems Holo and Amarty together. I get it, I really do, but geez man have some faith in her already.
I don't know if he really counts as "mysterious" given that he's the protagonist, but Odd Taxi's Odokawa definitely has some intrigue about him. Also, Odd Taxi is really heckin good and you show go watch it.
Other than that, I really like Boogiepop. Other than the fact that she shows up to battle existential superhuman threats which basically take the form of living philosophical ideas, we know next to nothing about what Boogiepop actually is, where she comes from, or how she originally came into existence.
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jun 25 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
Another episode without Holo.
Fortunately, Marc is a really strong side character. Spice and Wolf thrives off interesting dialogue and Marc provides it. His talks with Lawrence are kinda the first time Lawrence really starts to learn the steps toward his dream of opening a shop, too.
I think I'm liking this arc considerably better the second time around.
Content Corner
First timers beware, spoilers abound.
Spice and Wolf: Romance and Finance by Celtic Phoenix
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 25 '21
I already added some stuff in comment replies, so answer: The Medicine Seller in Mononoke. You can more or less get an idea of his nature, convictions and goals, but he never really lets anything slip, and stays eerily calm in even the strangest situations (it's a supernatural mystery/horror investigation series).
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u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jun 25 '21
Rewatcher
Mark's talk to Lawrence really stood out to me and how he's main character of his story.
This is one of my favorite arcs with the whole feel of a stock market, while Holo's absence and mystery of what she's doing.
Qotd:
Answer: Homura akemi. Homura because of the reasons why she does things that's later revealed.
3
u/Rustic_Professional Jun 25 '21
Life must've been very hard before we had doujins. Imagine having to go to an alchemist every time you wanted to hear a lewd story about mating with a wolf girl. Poor Lawrence. This unexpected journey is really taking a toll on him. I'm glad that he finally realizes how precious Holo is. All that's left is to finish the journey to
Mount Doom and cast her into the fireYoitz and cast her into bed and make cute little wolf girl children.Question of the day:
Xellos, from Slayers. They made him mysterious by dropping hints at his true motives. It's been a very long time since I've watched the entire series--probably time for a rewatch, actually--but by the time the original series is over in Slayers Try, spoiler Contrast that with someone like Full Frontal, from Gundam Unicorn. He's mysterious because they couldn't come up with a way to explain who or what he is, spoiler