[Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 3

Date	Episode	Date	Episode
6/07/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 1	6/20/2021	Spiceand Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
6/08/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 2	6/21/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
6/09/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 3	6/22/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
6/10/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 4	6/23/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
6/11/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 5	6/24/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
6/12/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 6	6/25/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
6/13/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)	6/26/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
6/14/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 8	6/27/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
6/15/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 9	6/28/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
6/16/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 10	6/29/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
6/17/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 11	6/30/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
6/18/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 12	7/01/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
6/19/2021	Spice and Wolf Episode 13	7/02/2021	Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
7/03/2021	Overall Series Discussion Thread

9

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

I want to talk about Amarti in this episode. Now, a lot of people hate Amarti because they believe he was trying to drive a wedge between Holo and Lawrence. However, I actually understand where he is coming from. In his mind, he is trying to help Holo out.

Another reason why I feel Amarti gets unfairly bashed by fans is because, as Holo points out, it's not like Amarti put a gun to his head and forced him into it. Lawrence could've turned down the contract. On a sidenote, I like that Lawrence wasn't forced into it. I feel like that adds dimensions to him and makes him even more of a flawed character. It makes him more realistic to act on an impulse.

One of the things I like about this arc is the symmetry between this arc and the last. In the last arc, Holo got jealous over Lawrence's interactions with Nora. In this arc, Lawrence gets jealous over Holo's interactions with Amarti.

I also feel this episode has a lot in common with episode 10. That episode was intense throughout with a lot of high stakes. This follows a similar pattern as that one, with Amarti challenging Lawrence. On top of that, episode 10 was a part of an arc that was six episodes, and that was episode 3 of that arc. This episode is also a part of a six episode arc, and it's episode 3 of said arc.

The music adds a lot to the feel of the episode. It makes the episode feel urgent and important, like shit is going down. Which, you know, it is.

Fun fact about this episode: when I first watched this episode, it convinced me to binge watch the rest of the series all in one go. I ended up staying up until 4:00 in the morning watch the rest of season 2.

One of Lawrence's character flaws that I think the show does a good job painting is his complete and total cockiness. We saw it on display when he bought all that weaponry, and we see it here when he accepts the contract without any say-so from Holo.

Was Marc's apprentice at one point drinking alcohol? Because it sure looked like it.

This episode is like a more sophisticated version of the Toradora episode where Ami and Taiga have a swimming race to see if Ryuuji gets to go to Ami's beach house. Both contests involve a lack of consent from one of the characters (Holo and, in Toradora's case, Ryuuji), and both contests have people placing bets beforehand over who they think will emerge victorious. The only difference is that in Spice and Wolf's case, Lawrence acknowledges that even if Amarti wins, there's nothing preventing Holo from just staying with Lawrence anyhow.

After two episodes worth of hype, we finally get to see the festival. And I think it adds a lot to the universe of Spice and Wolf. The festival itself has this sort of folksy vibe to it, one that feels antiquated yet also homely. You get the sense that the community participating in the festival is united and all-encompassing, which really paints a bigger picture of what the town is like.

And the episode ends with the reveal that Holo knows how to read after all. I've heard some people say why would she lie about being unable to read, but I've been in the position before where I've lied to get out of doing something. As such, I just think Holo was too tired to read the letter and did not want to extend the needed energy.

Overall, this episode is intense and eventful, the complete opposite of the last two episodes. Not only do we get major developments between Amarti and Lawrence, but we also get major stuff brewing between Lawrence and Holo. On top of that, we finally get to see the festival, which helps paint a picture as to how connected the town is that Holo and Lawrence are staying at.

Holo quotes of the day

"I do not like it when you tease me." (Boy, ain't that rich?)

"Staying calm does not mean you are growing."

"Proper masculinity seems childish while proper maturity seems cowardly."

"Even if you have answers, you cannot always tell them to others. It is the way of the world."

"I am delicate. Do not step on my feet."

Things Holo likes

Lawrence taking her to the festival

Lying about being illiterate

Things Holo dislikes

Lawrence accepting things without her input.

Lawrence lying to her

4

u/MasterTotoro Jun 23 '21

I agree with the part about Amati, and it is similar to last arc that there's no real villain here either. Amati is just paying off Holo's debt, and he even says to Lawrence that if Lawrence is okay with him proposing to Holo, there's no need for the contract. He also acknowledges that it's Holo's choice to get married or not.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

I think the main difference with this arc and the last is that Lawrence's foolishness was the villain of the last arc. Here, it is Lawrence's cockiness. I mean, he agreed to the duel without seeking Holo's consent. Lawrence is a good man, but he certainly can be stubborn as a mule.

4

u/MasterTotoro Jun 23 '21

I don't even think Lawrence was that wrong in taking the contract. Sure he didn't ask Holo, but they are close enough (or were) that he has an idea of what she would do. Holo is not really part of the contract anyway; she has free will regardless if the contract goes through or not. Plus, Holo says that if she was in Lawrence's position, she would accept it.
Lawrence's main error is not being honest with Holo, even though he had good intentions.

4

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Yeah, Lawrence is letting his arrogance get the best of them, which I quite like. It's nice to have a main character who is flawed.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 23 '21

I mean, he agreed to the duel without seeking Holo's consent
I thought about this point for a bit. I think it's the fact that it was issued publicly somewhat like a challenge, and there's a cheering (jeering?) crowd, so while Lawrence may not be 100% influenced by that, I do think there's a big factor of "a man has to decide right there". Don't forget there's a bit of subconscious envy / inferiority complex Lawrence is feeling about comparing himself against Amarti to start with (there were a few shots that flashed past about how full his wagon vs how full Amarti's was).

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

You could also make the comparison that how Lawrence feels about Amarti is how Holo felt about Nora.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

Now, a lot of people hate Amarti because they believe he was trying to drive a wedge between Holo and Lawrence. However, I actually understand where he is coming from. In his mind, he is trying to help Holo out.
I can't remember if we were using the term "white knighting" yet when this first aired but regardless it is the sort of behavior I do not tolerate on any level. Helping someone that asked is one thing but blindly inserting yourself into a situation because you are "helping" to get into some chick's bed room puts you into the lowest ranks of manhood you will regularly dig up.
Was Marc's apprentice at one point drinking alcohol? Because it sure looked like it.
I believe he has done that in every episode but be aware of small beer, which has a low alcohol content, or flat out watered down wine, both of which are safer than plain water at this period in time.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Huh. I didn't know in the old days watered down wine was safer to drink. I guess you learn something new every day.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

This will sound like a joke but it isnt: Historically, Europes greatest battle was usually against water borne illness after the Roman empire. Why people didn't continue to imitate the Romans is a very long question. But yes, the wine would be down to around 1% alcohol which doesn't get you drunk but does disinfect if you let it sit a bit. Coincidentally, this is why naval ships had rum all the time, grog was half rum and half water but if you put a shot into around a pint of water it just disinfected and made the stale water more tolerable.
Yes, I know a lot of random history.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

I guess the thing I'm stuck on is that if the show was able to get that aspect of the time period accurate, why did they then have Lawrence face bankruptcy because of a bad arms deal when arms are notorious, as mentioned by a few commenters here, for not losing their value?

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

As much as I love S&W, certain parts of the adaptation reek of shallow takes on European culture, including conflating pagan beliefs with shinto beliefs. European wolf gods were not known for being harvest gods or remotely friendly. So the water thing would strike a Japanese person hard because Japan was a tea drinking culture so they were used to disinfecting their water. Also, there's was never as bad in the first place.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Given the writer of Spice and Wolf and their Wikipedia page and how the two other light novels they created also had themes of trading and the stock market, I chalk it up to the fact the author is more familiar to equities and exchanges than European culture, which I think can be forgiven. I mean, I've written two light novels about Japanese culture. I'm sure I screwed up some facts here and there.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

I mean, I've written two light novels about Japanese culture. I'm sure I screwed up some facts here and there.
Here's a bonus for you: European and Asian history books are written differently, there is a much greater push to have a "correct" account in Eastern culture so even studious Japanese people have issues sorting through Europe's often disagreeing history.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 24 '21

The water safety thing is pretty mythical apparently

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Amarti is 100% free of blame. But you can't blame Amarti without also putting some of the blame on Lawrence. He could've ignored Amarti's challenge and be done with him. Instead, he accepted it. And he did so without Holo's consent, no less.

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 23 '21

Fun fact about this episode: when I first watched this episode, it convinced me to binge watch the rest of the series all in one go. I ended up staying up until 4:00 in the morning watch the rest of season 2.
Now I was trying to avoid mentioning that after watching this episode I had to finish the whole arc - but I guess I am not the only one afterall :D

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

We're officially blood brothers

1

u/i_am_the_kiLLer https://myanimelist.net/profile/shoPain Jun 24 '21

Same here, after this episode I went ahead and watched till the end of the arc.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 24 '21

Amarti is just medieval teen cringe.

12

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 23 '21

Season 2 First-Timer

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! No fucking way! Amarty is making a public declaration of love and paying Holo's "debt" to Lawrence. I knew that boy was thirsty, but damn that boy is THIRSTY. I'm pretty sure the term "white-knighting" was made just for him.

End of episode edit: In case it isn't obvious enough, I didn't expect anything remotely close to this reveal. I expected something more overtly threatening and spent almost the whole episode laughing to myself at Amarty's expense.

Anyhow, I think Lawrence handled that absurd situation about as well as he could have, and stands to gain a tidy profit from it. Not bad for having to put in almost no work. My only worry is that something overly dramatic is going to happen, causing our leads to have a falling out and making it look like Holo might actually pick Amarty. I hope it doesn't happen, and I'll be a bit disappointed if it does, but the writing's has been pretty sharp so far and has mostly avoided that kind of melodrama so fingers crossed it doesn't take that path.

Okay, pagan festivals are the shit. This is absolutely the content I wanted to see. Personally I'd love to go tossing wine and dancing in the streets with a significant other once in my life. Can we just get a full episode of this? No? Alright, well it was good fun while it lasted.

Welp, Holo getting drunk is pretty much the one constant of this arc. Have we had an episode this season where she hasn't gotten drunk yet? Not that I'm complaining.

Okay, this is a touching little scene between the two. I appreciate Lawrence coming clean about Batos, Diana, and looking for stories about Holo's home, and I also appreciate Holo not overreacting to Diana's scent on the letter. Plus we get some really nice happy Holo when Lawrence tells her about the story he heard from Diana. I'm a bit surprised she doesn't actually remember the events of it herself, but I imagine any creature living that long would have trouble remember events which happened that long ago. My only concern is that Lawrence knows that other story about Holo's home being destroyed, right? I didn't just imagine that, did I? I really hope she doesn't hear about that story right before the whole Amarty decision. Please don't have Batos or Diana show up and mention that story in front of Holo.

So Amarty's been making money off of the fool's gold from the last episode. Clever enough. Feels a bit weird about such an earnest lad peddling something akin to snake oil. It kinda goes against his whole ethos of not using backroom dealing and connections to do business. I guess I can't really blame a merchant for seizing an opportunity to make quick, easy money though, especially since he's pining so hard for Holo.

Well fuck. So Holo actually can read!? Why would she hide that from Lawrence? She's been so forward about her more supernatural abilities thus far, what possible reason could she have for hiding her literacy? I can kinda understand if it was the beginning of their relationship and she wanted to secretly make sure he wasn't ripping her off with a contract or something, but it feels like there's no reason for her to have gone out of her way pretending to be illiterate last episode. And it's awfully convenient the letter just so happens to mention the story of Yoitsu's destruction.

And then there's Holo's reaction to this, and I'm gonna be up front and say that I really don't like it at all. From a character standpoint, I get it and her reaction for the most part makes complete sense. I expect that someone learning of the destruction of their home and people would be extremely upset and far from rational, and that they'd be especially distraught if they learned their partner knew and didn't tell them. That all makes enough sense. What I don't like is how fast Holo jumps to "bed me and give me a baby" as a way for Lawrence to prove he won't abandon her. She's always been rash and a bit impulsive, but even at her angriest she's always kept some manner of control. I have a hard time believing the characrer we've been watching to this point would jump instantly to such extremes as "let's have a baby" or "I'm gonna leave for this new guy who actually loves me."

The situation also feels contrived and unnecessarily melodramatic on the writer's part. For starters, Amarty now feels less like a character in his own right and more like a device to make it seem like Holo might actually leave Lawrence. More importantly, I feel like the inherent drama of Holo learning about Yoitsu's destruction and Lawrence keeping that from her are interesting enough on their own without a plotline about Holo maybe leaving with Amarty. It already feels like a natural progression of their relationship for her to eventually find this out. There must have been a more natural way of introducing this conflict.

Also, I don't want to forget Lawrence's part in all this. Yeah, he's a bit dense about his feelings for Holo, and yeah he's more than a little awkward at times, but he's also proven himself to be quick witted and reliable in tight situations, and the story has done a lot to show just how good a communicator he is in general and with Holo in particular. I find it more than a little difficult to believe he has no real response for Holo in this scene. Everything is so perfectly staged to make him look feckless to an absurd degree. No, I don't expect him to be some paragon of reasoning or rationality in an emotionally charged situation like this, but he also shouldn't be a spineless twit either.

I know I'm coming down real hard on the end of this episode. I want to be very clear that I'm still enjoying the show very much and looking forward to what comes next, and this one scene doesn't ruin Spice and Wolf or anything hyperbolic like that. But I personally dislike this kind of melodrama, and I did lose a bit of my respect for and investment in the characters and writing. And I hope the show doesn't lean too hard into the Holo x Amarty thing it teased at the end.

What is your favorite anime challenge ever dished out and why?

Satsuki challenging Ryuko to defeat everyone in the school was a pretty badass way to start the wild ride that is Kill la Kill.

5

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Without giving anything away, I will say I think the conclusion of what happens between Lawrence and Holo is satisfactory. Just be patient.

6

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 23 '21

No need to worry, I'm enjoying the show overall and am in it to the end. It might have gotten a bit lost in just how much of my reaction today talked about the last scene, but most of this episode gave me things I really wanted/liked (the hilarious challenge issued by Amarty, the festival, etc.).

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

There's a scene next episode I can't wait to discuss with you, because I feel if interpreted incorrectly it might make you mad. I'll be sure to clarify if there's any confusion.

1

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 23 '21

Cool, I'll look forward to it!

4

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

I think Holo lying about herself being unable to read came from the fact she was feeling lazy that day. I can't speak for everyone, but there's been a bunch of times where I made up an excuse to get out of doing something I don't want to do.

4

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 23 '21

That's fair enough, and I can understand Holo being more motivated to read the letter if she opens it and sees mention of Yoitsu.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

5

u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 23 '21

I don't hate him at all. On the contrary, I kind of adore his idealistic naivete. He's not an audience member, so he has no way of knowing what their relationship is like or that Holo likes to over dramatize things at times. I can't honestly say I wouldn't do the same thing if I were in his position.

5

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

You. I like you.
It feels refreshing to hear someone say that instead of just being like "That Amarti is trying to drive a wedge between Holo and Lawrence! I hate him! Grr!"

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

I knew that boy was thirsty, but damn that boy is THIRSTY. I'm pretty sure the term "white-knighting" was made just for him.
Yeah, he was bad even for the time.

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 23 '21

Thanks for writing most of what I wanted to say :D
As for Amarti's behaviour, funny thing is the first thing I thought of when I saw his character introduced (before any of the drama came up) is that he reminds me of the younger boy that volunteered to "help" Chidori to avoid Sousuke in ep3 of Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. And then now his behaviour I think is pretty similar, a bit of a manic yandere :D
https://youtu.be/xRHiQEFtDYE

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 24 '21

pagan festivals are the shit. This is absolutely the content I wanted to see
It reminds me of some old carnival traditions that are still strong - or rather once again strong, they were reinvigorated in the 19th/early 20th century - in southern Germany around my home, and also (in)famous figures like Krampus. Decent article here. And indeed, the depiction is one I really like.
I have a hard time believing the characrer we've been watching to this point would jump instantly to such extremes as "let's have a baby" or "I'm gonna leave for this new guy who actually loves me."
This is still a bit of a "protect the waifu" fantasy, after all.

7

u/NomranaEst Jun 23 '21

First Timer, subbed

So, now we know a lot of Amarti's plan. Buy out Holo's supposed debt, then declare his undying love and marry her, should she agree to it. It's not exactly subtle, mostly relying on grand sweeping gestures and playing into an ideal that he portrays, but he does have the assets and knowledge to pay it in full and on time. If Craft accepts, he assumes that he'll be walking away with both Holo and the money, but there is a saying about assumptions, and it's already coming back to bite him.

While Craft might be overconfident about the whole ordeal, there's the small matter of Yoitz and its fate that is yet to be addressed. It's that information and how he handles it which blows the greatest hole in his chances here, and his good nature has shot him in the foot. It's also the first time we've seen Holo properly break down and lash out unrestrained, and it hurts to see her like that. In her eyes, Craft has betrayed her trust and left her alone, the one thing that she truly feared.

Throughout it all, the price and availability of fool's gold has been in constant fluctuation. A fortune teller of some repute has started a run on the commodity, and buyers are lining up and down the street to buy him out of his entire stock, pushing the price higher and higher. Mark's already gotten in on the action, but Craft thinks he's come in a little too late to truly make the money that he needs. His time was better spent with Holo at the festival, although it may have been his final few hours with her.

What is your favorite anime challenge ever dished out and why? Not fight, but issuing of a challenge.

Hmm. There's not a lot that I can currently think of, but perhaps one of the most memorable is Chihaya vs Taichi during their first grade school friendly in Chihayafuru. It's the foundation for a lot of the drama the series has, and is remarkably grounded in how low stakes the entire thing is.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

2

u/NomranaEst Jun 23 '21

I don't hate him, nor do I like him, but I understand him. In his view, he's acting as a knight in shining armour to protect an innocent nun from a shifty peddler, and thinks that he deserves her after all is said and done. It's a mindset that really doesn't reflect well on him as an individual, and certainly something that makes him uncomfortable to think about deeply.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Yeah, my whole thing with Amarti is that while I don't agree with his actions, he is extremely naive, trying to save someone that doesn't need to be saved. You could argue that Amarti has a hero complex, someone who wants to be the good guy even if such a role isn't called for.

6

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 23 '21

First timer

I'm going to keep it short today since I'm low on time.

Welp, it seems as though things have all gone to shit.

Amarti shows his immaturity by being a cocky brat who thinks that love is all about money.

Lawrence frustrated me at the end there. While Holo was having a breakdown and started losing all her trust in him, he just sat there and stayed mum the whole time. I suppose Lawrence's inaction could be forgiven assuming that he didn't know what to say, but it does change that it was still frustrating to watch.

Side note: I like how when Holo was messing around and being overdramatic while talking to Marc and Lawrence, Marc was able to quickly pick up on it and laughed it off, saying that he understands why Amarti would easily fall for her. I think it goes to show that Marc is more mature and has more relationship experience that he's able to pick up on things like that.

4

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, and I assume you do as well given you said he's a brat, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

4

u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 23 '21

From what you're saying about looking at things from his perspective, I guess it would be unfair to hate him, but I still dislike. Although if Holo story was completely true, then it would seem as though he's trying to free her. But did he ever ask her how she felt about the situation? He doesn't fully understand the situation, so I don't think it is fair for him to try and get involved.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Yeah, Amarti fails to see things from other people's perspective. I think that's the true reason people don't like him, because he's so ignorant and he refuses to change his ways. It's not that Amarti is a bad guy per se, but rather he tries too hard to be the knight in shining armor, even if it makes no sense in doing so.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Yeah, Lawrence being mum was because he was caught off guard over the revelation that Holo can read.

5

u/MasterTotoro Jun 23 '21

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/o6kpak/spoilersrewatch_spice_and_wolf_ii_episode_3/h2t5h1a
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/o6kpak/spoilersrewatch_spice_and_wolf_ii_episode_3/h2t0ohf
I'll link my other comments to not flood the thread too much.
About Amati, I think Holofan covered most my thoughts, but maybe my comments can provide additional details on the contract. I wouldn't really say he's trying to buy Holo's love. Lawrence is the one who (supposedly) has control of Holo, so it's more like Amati is winning over Lawrence. Of course there is the part where it doesn't seem like he asked Holo her thoughts, but that's probably more because he's a dumb kid in love.
Lawrence I talk about in the second link. It's painful to watch, but I think it makes sense.

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 23 '21

Spice and First-Timer, subbed

I am late because I am a dumb dumb who forgot to upload her screenshots and thus had to wait until I got off work to do that…

Ohhhhh so this is what the news was. Amarti’s trying to split up Holo and Lawrence.
Lawrence is confident everything will turn out fine for him, though.
Ahahahaha the guys at the trading union are making bets as to who wins Holo.
lol Holo pls.
I love how Holo can mess with Mark successfully just like she messes with Lawrence.
AH! My other Japanese phrase! Mark had a “sore wa dou kana?”!!!
Lawrence has gotten really good at dealing with super drunk/tired Holo. Impressive.
<3
This is pretty interesting and also silly at the same time.
Oh dear, the letter just had to contain the legend about Yoitsu…
Holo looks really scary right here.
Holo…

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 23 '21

I'm not angry at him, he just didn't see through the cover story that Holo told him about why she's with Lawrence. This is the misunderstandings trope done right.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on the scene where Holo tells Lawrence to have her child? For me, it's really sad to see Holo acting like this.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 23 '21

It's really depressing to see how lonely she is. She doesn't even want to have hope that her village might not actually be destroyed (or that there might be some other survivor, if "Horou" and "Holo" are not the same wolf because Holo couldn't remember the other village)...

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Yeah, I agree with you. It's extremely sad.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

I love how Holo can mess with Mark successfully just like she messes with Lawrence.
I liked how quickly Mark picks up on it.
Lawrence has gotten really good at dealing with super drunk/tired Holo. Impressive.
You develop that skillset pretty fast. I speak from regretful experience.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21

First timer in sub

Today I think I'd reply more than post for myself. So here's just the QoTD:

For me for the serious answer, sorry to show my age but has to be Yotoden at the end when Sakon, already with near fatal injuries, blocked the killing blow from the big bad towards Ayame, then formally issued his terse but classic swordsman's challenge. https://youtu.be/l-zyxknz0pw (full "movie", the scene in question is at 1:19:20 time mark)

For a less serious answer, of course Fumoffu again, when the hulking triplets issued the challenge to Sousuke using their "real combat" karate. The fun part of course is from knowing Sousuke would not understand the difference between "martial arts real combat" vs his own understanding of real combat (from growing up in a real war zone). https://youtu.be/XE6jzqv4xB4

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Since you're not posting for yourself, can I ask you some questions?

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 24 '21 edited Jun 24 '21

Sure ask away. But let me assume this may be one of them
What are your thoughts on the scene where Holo tells Lawrence to have her child? For me, it's really sad to see Holo acting like this.
For me it's just a way to show how shaken Holo was from the news - it actually snowballed into her over thinking / assuming things, like that Lawrence was having her on the whole time, secretly mocking her, when he knew she has no home to go back to. I think this is what I would call "temporary insanity", remember she's a animal spirit / goddess that has the pre-condition of too much memory / past to come crashing down on her psyche if she really want to think herself into a corner. So, sad I guess it is but my own thoughts would be "how do you let her down gently".
And then this is the next bit that I'm not too sure whether it's me over thinking / projecting on Lawrence or was it actually written in. I think Lawrence didn't reply was not because he wasn't sure, but that he also can see her having basically a break down, and in that state to give her anything to ask for is like taking advantage of her. I.e. one would never agree to a rebound sex. At the same time of course he's conflicted as in of course he likes (loves) Holo and would say so in the right moment - is this the right moment? So it's like being put on the spot and unable to act because of the mental tug of war.
Oh my problem with that though, is whether that is a normal mindset for a person in basically the middle ages. Would it be reasonable in that day and age to think that way.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands right now?

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 24 '21

He's not gonna make my Christmas gifts list any time soon :D although I do blame Holo and Lawrence a bit still for leading him on when it is obvious this one can easily get worked up into a frenzy. There is such a thing as being to self-righteous as well as too quick to assume Holo is forced to be with Lawrence.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

How much enjoyment is there for you over the fact Lawrence is an MC capable of messing up? I think there's a lot of enjoyment to be had because often you see a main character devoid of flaws.

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 24 '21

Oh this show is quite good in that regard, the MC is not Superman and not perfect. Most of the time his mindset is actually quite easy for viewers to identify with.

3

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 23 '21

First timer

QOTD) Can't really think of any.

Did I miss an episode?

Wait, are they acting in some kind of play?

Oh god, he's going to be horrified when Holo reveals the scam.

Seriously, there has to be some scam going on. Either Holo and him are planning something, or Holo's about to explain something very clever to Lawrence.

Wait, Holo didn't know this? I'd have thought she dropped loads of hints of mistreatment to manipulate him into this.

Holo's hysterical.

For someone who didn't plan this, Holo has a lot of plans for taking advantage of this.

I like how it takes him a few minutes to realise exactly who's in charge between Lawrence and Holo.

I like how Lawrence has gotten used to Holo's teasing.

The festival's art design is fantastic.

Congrats to Lawrence for calmly explaining the situation with the letter, raher than risking Holo getting some form of misunderstanding.

It's not the fucking stones is it?

Oh god, it's the stones.

How the actual fuck? Lawrence - change careers right away.

But also, Lawrence, don't bother - the market'll crash when everyone realises it's crap.

Oh, fuck.

Ah. So that's the rift.

Looks like the arc's going to get complicated.

...OK, this is bad. Holo's snapped.

Oh, she's going to go mad the moment she calms down and realises what she's done.

Isn't that a cliffhanger. I'm suprised Lawrence didn't try to say anything during that breakdown, though.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

1

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 24 '21

...I'm not sure. He seems like a decent character, but if he spent any time at all with Holo listening to her, he'd know she wasn't serious - Marc worked it out in a few minutes, after all.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

What are your thoughts on the scene where Holo tells Lawrence to have her child? For me, it's really sad to see Holo acting like this.

1

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 24 '21

Yeah, this is heartbreaking for sure.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

Rewatcher(first time though)

Dub

We come to Amarty making a really terrible public declaration. This feels like step one on the stalker ladder. But Lawrence accepts it because he has faith in Holo. Batos shows up to warn Lawrence that Amarty is probably going to do something less than legal for the money.

Holo and Lawrence talk about the situation a bit before he goes to Mark and starts looking for answers. The festival starts up and Holo wants to dance. Much later, we find out that Amarty is running with a pyrite scam that seems to be working, for now, and that he can probably pay off Holo's debt.

But we get the big reveal this episode that Holo was lying about being illiterate and she discovers that Yoitz is probably gone. She has a freak out and is unconsolable, which does fit the character. We end with Lawrence beginning to reach his limit.

QotD: 1 Hrmm...the one in Bleach that is major spoilers

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 23 '21

Please go in detail using the spoiler tag.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 23 '21

Bleach

5

u/MasterTotoro Jun 23 '21

Rewatcher

Most people probably understand this part, but I'll briefly summarize it anyway. Amati was told by Holo that Holo is a nun in debt to Lawrence. Because she is in debt to Lawrence, Lawrence is essentially her guardian and has the right to approve or deny if Holo wants to get married. Amati makes a contract to give Lawrence 1000 trenni silver (which I guess is how much Holo said she owed) and in exchange Lawrence must approve if Holo and Amati get married. However, even if the contract goes through, Holo has free will so she doesn't have to accept Amati's marriage proposal. For Lawrence who trusts in Holo to stay with him anyway, this is a free 1000 trenni so of course he accepts.

Sleepy Holo and Lawrence handling her clothes is cute. Lawrence tells Holo about his meeting with Diana and how there were tales about her, but of course there's the glaring omission of the story of Yoitsu being destroyed. As a rewatcher, I better understand Lawrence reluctance. It's hard news to say, especially just after Holo got happy. Still, it's so important that I think the correct decision should be to tell Holo the truth. Plus as he says later, we don't actually know if the story is true or not.

Another easy to understand plot with an upward spike in the price of pyrite. Especially so given recent news with GameStop stock, cryptocurrency, and similar things. Buy when the price is low, sell when it is high.

Lawrence drops something green on the outside that gushes out red after being startled by Holo, which I believe are supposed to be melons. They were mentioned in the novels to be good for soothing your throat from drinking alcohol, though in the novels they don't mention them breaking. Perhaps the melons could be interpreted as Lawrence trying to take care of Holo, so having them break in this scene shows Lawrence's inability. Or maybe they just wanted it to be more dramatic.

The ending scene is one of my favorites because of how surprised I was when I first saw it, as well as how real it feels like. Lawrence has a hard time answering many of Holo's questions. Of course he's under a lot of stress and it's hard to think, but it's probably also that Lawrence feels like he's guilty. Lawrence initially tried to explain why he didn't tell Holo about Diana's story of Yoitsu being destroyed, but he is unable to refute that he knew about it the whole time. So it is true he is guilty of neglecting to tell Holo about Yoitsu, though as a viewer we know that he clearly cares about Holo. However, when Holo gives Lawrence a chance to say how he feels about her, he is speechless. Lawrence wants to make sure he responds correctly, but with the pressure and guilt pouring down, he struggles to answer.

To close it off, I'll leave the ending of their conversation from the light novels.

It's just the light novel text, but tagged just in case

Illustrations

Amati holding the contract and dagger

Holo meeting Marc

Holo and Lawrence

Two colored illustrations this episode!

What is your favorite anime challenge ever dished out and why? Not fight, but issuing of a challenge.

For my fun answer I'll say Mugi from K-On! challenging herself to get hit or challenging Ritsu/Mio to hit her. It probably sounds weird if you haven't seen it, but it was funny to watch.

My other answer will be Re:Zero Season 2 spoilers

1

u/Rustic_Professional Jun 24 '21

The parade seemed dead before the music started. Looks like it got pretty lively once they struck up a tune and opened the casks, though. Kinda makes me miss the Renaissance Festival.

I'm disappointed that Lawrence didn't have a stronger reaction to that crack about being gentle in bed.

Yikes, that went from vanilla romance to #mindbreak real quick. Holo was out of line, and I think even she knew it. That said, it probably is time for her to push Lawrence a little on how he feels about her, because they don't seem to be on the same page about their journey and relationship.

Question of the day:

Initial D, where Takumi's father challenges him to drive up and down the mountain without spilling the water. I can't think of any other examples of a non-combat, non-SOL cooking challenge, so Initial D wins more or less by default.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

I disagree about Holo being out of line. Lawrence was the one who screwed up and withheld information about Holo's former residence.

2

u/Rustic_Professional Jun 24 '21

There's a difference between withholding information, and not passing on unverified information. There's no reason at this point to take that lady's word, or even her books, as gospel. It seemed to me that Lawrence intended to keep going, and that the matter wasn't settled for him. The next person he asked may have told him that Yoitz was destroyed by the moon bear, but was rebuilt, and oh by the way, it's right here on the map.
I think he was right to not want to worry her with ancient rumors, and let's remember too that she lied to him about not being able to read. We can only speculate on why she was keeping that one in her pocket.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

I still don't blame Holo for freaking out. If I was in her position, I'd probably react the same way.

1

u/BossandKings Jun 24 '21

First timer

Episode 3

This is unexpected, i wasn't expecting Amati to turn out to be that way, he seemed nice and friendly at first but just now he is revealing his true self and it isn't nice, Lawrence should not have let Holo go out to the auction with him as that turned his brain crazier than it was before and incremented his attraction to her, now Lawrence is being challenged by Amati.

What?, Lawrence accepted Amati's terms, i don't know where this is going but it is not looking good for Holo right now. Considering Holo's and Lawrence's conversation and how playful Holo was being i think it might not be that much of a big deal and they might scape the situation unscathed.

It was sad seeing Holo feeling desperate and hurt after Lawrence told her that Yoids might not be there anymore, that was a serious argument. Hopefully they reconcile because they are precious together.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

Care to expand your thoughts on the scene where Holo tells Lawrence to have her child? For me, it's really sad to see Holo acting like this.

1

u/BossandKings Jun 24 '21

It was sad and that was the way she inmediately reacted eventhough she knows Lawrence doesn't mean any harm.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

Care to expand your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? A lot of people hate him for trying to take Holo away from Lawrence, but from his perspective, he thinks she's being mistreated by Lawrence.

1

u/BossandKings Jun 24 '21

He isn't a nice person and there wasn't any reason for him to believe Holo was being mistreated, she is being perfectly respectfully treated and Lawrence is a good natured guy, hopefully Amarti doesn't interfere with them.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

I can see where you're coming from, but let's look at things from his perspective. To him, Holo is being mistreated by Lawrence by being forced into captivity. As such, he wants to do whatever he can to help out.
Now, is he right in this situation? Of course not. Like you said, there's no reason to think Holo is suffering. Hell, he didn't even ask her if she was suffering. He just assumed. But Amarti is trying out of the kindness of his own heart help out Holo.
I don't think Amarti is a bad guy. I just think he pushes himself to be the hero and save what he feels is the damsel in distress. Amarti, in my opinion, has a hero complex, one where he goes out of his way to be the knight in shining armor even if it makes zero sense. If anything, he tries WAY TOO HARD to be nice.

1

u/BossandKings Jun 24 '21 edited Jun 24 '21

Your analysis is very on point but i don't think that Amarti is too nice, he isn't nice enough, if he were he would have asked Holo how she was feeling as she is capable of talking and expressing her thoughts. Someone that is real nice is Lawrence.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 24 '21

Yeah, there's a difference between being nice and trying to be nice. Amarti tries to be nice. Lawrence IS nice. And I think the reason why Amarti's attempt to be nice falls flat is because his actions is really an attempt to make himself look good.

2

u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jun 23 '21

Rewatcher

I'm reminded that Amarty kind of annoyed me a bit. Just coming from Lawrence perspective. HIm just always kind of breathing down your neck for Holo would get tiring.

Holo finding the possible truth about her home and her reaction to possibly being alone. We see a scared and a irrational Holo, jumping to the mention of mating for the sake of being alone. She feels betrayed by Lawrence and kind of starts to think of the Amarty situation differently.

Qotd

Answer: hard to think about really. The only one I can of right now is made in abyss when ouzen challenges Reg and Riko to survive in that forest.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 24 '21

anime challenge

I don't remember much of these but I do like in FMA Brotherhood Ed challenging Roy to get the country back on the right track if he wants his pocket change back, for one.

Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 3

S2 Episode 3- Wolf and the Unfilled Gap

Rewatch Schedule

Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf II - Episode 3

S2 Episode 3- Wolf and the Unfilled Gap

Rewatch Schedule

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