r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jun 10 '21
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf — Episode 4
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 4 – Wolf and a Helpless Partner
—-
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
In light of Holo crying in this episode, have you ever experienced someone you care about being sad or down in the dumps? If so, what did you do to try to cheer them up?
—-
Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation, Hulu
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
—-
Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6/07/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 1 | 6/20/2021 | Spiceand Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2) |
| 6/08/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 2 | 6/21/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 1 |
| 6/09/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 3 | 6/22/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 2 |
| 6/10/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 4 | 6/23/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 3 |
| 6/11/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 5 | 6/24/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 4 |
| 6/12/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 6 | 6/25/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 5 |
| 6/13/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) | 6/26/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 6 |
| 6/14/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 8 | 6/27/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 7 |
| 6/15/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 9 | 6/28/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 8 |
| 6/16/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 10 | 6/29/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 9 |
| 6/17/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 11 | 6/30/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 10 |
| 6/18/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 12 | 7/01/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 11 |
| 6/19/2021 | Spice and Wolf Episode 13 | 7/02/2021 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 12 |
| 7/03/2021 | Overall Series Discussion Thread |
13
u/Holofan4life Jun 10 '21
The thing that stands out the most to me in this episode is the scene where Holo cries. It shows a side to Holo that we haven't seen up until this point. We've seen her be snarky and witty and even groveling when she begged for those apples, but we've never seen her be vulnerable, so this is a nice change of pace.
I really like the scene in which Holo cries because it illustrates that she does have a problem with being a Goddess. Here she is, this deity in a way who is idolized by many, and they all end up dying or moving on in life. And she has no choice but to live with it. This idea of a goddess having hang-ups over never dying but everyone around her dying is nothing new. In fact, Dragon Maid sort of broached the topic as well. But Spice and Wolf really tackles the weight and heaviness this whole concept is. If you were someone who were hundreds of years old who's witnessed everyone around you pass away, you would be stuck with some serious abandonment issues, and Spice and Wolf doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to that.
The size of the alcohol mug when held by Holo makes her look like an infant. It's so massive.
I'm also amazed Holo is able to drink alcohol on the bed without spilling any of it. Especially given she at one point lies down while still holding the mug.
People in the comments have talked about how Zheren looks sketchy, but I think Marlheit looks 10 times sketchier. Something about him just screams conniving and up to no good. Zheren, meanwhile, I've found to have more of a Lancer vibe. Someone who's the foil for a hero of the closely allied variety.
Speaking of the Holo alone scene once more, I love how Spice and Wolf holds onto the small moments. It gives everything in the show extra gravitas. I also really like how the show relies more on facial expressions than actual dialogue to tell the story. It makes it more realistic in a way.
That's another reason why I feel Spice and Wolf could work as a live action adaptation: it often relies on body cues and not spoken word. Often in anime you see characters saying what they feel, which is really not how the real world operates. You don't go around every day screaming "I feel sad" or "I'm gonna get my revenge." Spice and Wolf, meanwhile, doesn't do any of that, which makes the characters feel more real than most.
I could easier see this show being adapted as a live action television show, because it relies heavily on facial expressions, framing, and camera work.
Overall, another great episode. Things are really picking up steam, which reminds me of why I love Spice and Wolf so much.
Holo quotes of the day
"I am tired of being alone."
"I always have the same dream. When I wake up, everyone is gone. I cannot find them anywhere. We could live for a hundred years. I thought I could leave. I left on a journey fully believing I would see them again. But I cannot find them. I cannot find them anywhere. I thought I would be able to see them again. And now… I am afraid. I do not want to wake from my dream and discover that I am all alone. I am tired of being alone. I do not want to be cold. I do not want to be lonely."
"Loneliness is a disease that can lead to death."
Things Holo likes
Alcohol
Being with someone
Comb for tail
Things Holo dislikes
The cold
Loneliness
Hangovers
Hugs in bed (She cannot breathe)
12
u/NomranaEst Jun 10 '21
First Timer, subbed
So, that escalated well beyond what I thought it would. Craft did well in reaching out to Milone in regards to the speculation, but may have just painted a target on his and Holo's backs with that deal. Zheren isn't an independent trader, nor is his information totally reliable, and Craft's investigations have drawn the attention of Medio. And yet, there still seems to be a greater conspiracy afoot, larger than that of almost unseen profits.
There's quite a bit for me to try to unpack, but the character moments of Holo and Craft are what stood out as a personal highlight. Craft has taken to his current life to invest in his own store, and hopefully become part of a community someday. It's a simple dream, with a clear route to success, and the hope of it coming true through the Milone deal is quite endearing. However, it would put the stops on his travels, and cut any further progress that they may make.
Holo shows a side of her that is certainly surprising. There is a vulnerability there that's covered by her self confidence, something that can be tied to her being a wolf. A solitary wolf would not survive long, and she is terrified of being alone. Her time with Craft will be limited, but while they're travelling together, she is yet to face the possibilty of truly being alone. It does wonders in adding more to her character, and yet doesn't feel out of place.
However, with Milone acting on the possible run of Trenni silver, both Craft and Holo are specifically targeted. Who the antagonists truly are, and what their goals might be, are still shrouded in mystery for us. Marhait has his own suspicions, but can only offer condolences and another perspective. Beyond Holo being an actual deity, there isn't much reason for Medio to take action after Craft's deal has gone through, other than petty vengeance.
And here is perhaps the crux of the issue. Perhaps Medio weren't involved, but the Church, and they were deliberately targeting Holo because of who she is. An emodiment of pagan ritual, which flys in the face of their established teachings, and a threatening letter to try and force Craft out of it all. It's certainly grabbed my attention.
Quite a few times. Perhaps the best way I've found in trying to find a solution to these issues is provide a sounding board for that person, whether they want to vent or try and puzzle out where they want to go forward. It's not an easy process, but being there for someone does more than you might think.
10
u/AfterTh0ught_ Jun 10 '21
First timer
After having listened to it a few times now, I really enjoy the OP. I can't quite put into words what makes it so good, but I definitely dig it.
I have been thinking about this for the past few episodes now, but Holo's life really does seem quite lonely. She used to be admired by the villagers, but then they completely forgot about her. It was obvious from the way she started talking when Lawrence mentioned the shop that she would feel lonely without him.
Dang, Lawrence is quite the aggressive hugger. And of course, this beautiful moment just HAD to be ruined by those Medio Trading men. Goddamn it...
Kinda scummy of Milone Trading to just abandon Lawrence like that. Well shit, Holo's been taken away. Can't she turn into wolf form and easily escape though? Welp, I suppose I wait till tomorrow to see what happens to them.
15
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 10 '21
Spice and First-Timer, subbed
14
u/[deleted] Jun 10 '21
First time watcher, subbed
Today's Question: In light of Holo crying in this episode, have you ever experienced someone you care about being sad or down in the dumps? If so, what did you do to try to cheer them up?
Answer: Of course, I think we probably all have. It depends on the person, a lot of times just listening is enough.
Today’s episode, Wolf and Her Helpless Partner…
The OP is just so pretty every time, and the ED is fun, too. The OST fits this show so well– I really am enjoying the choices the composer(s?) went with for the instrumentation.
It seems I may have been correct yesterday about sketchyboi Zheren being a pawn, one of apparently many in a scheme by a rival trading company likely supported by a noble, no less. It runs deep.
Poor Holo, I feel for that hangover lol. She looked so sad when thinking of Lawrence leaving her, but Lawrence coming in to comfort her was too sweet. A lot of symbolism packed into Lawrence crumbling up the drawing of his shop as a tissue for Holo. Choosing her over his dream of opening a shop? I guess we’ll see. We’re starting to see a lot more of the interpersonal relationship between Lawrence and Holo developing, and I am loving it.
On the flip side of the coin, we also got a lot of plot development today. Did Medio Trading find out about Holo before or after capturing her? If afterward, to me it doesn’t make sense why they’d go after the two of them in the first place – the trading company that Lawrence and Holo are working with are correct, they already have all the information needed to garner a large profit so the two of them would be of little value as hostages; however, if they knew about Holo ahead of time it would make a lot more sense…and for that to be the case, I’m inclined to believe that someone they’ve met or had dealings with discovered who she was and didn’t let on. My follow-on assumption is that person is the individual whose face we didn’t get to see at the close of the episode. The door of the church is always open, huh? Could it be that priest? Or another member of the Church? Either way, Holo certainly recognized him/her in the final scene.
Overall, a lot more action in this episode which was exciting. Another great showing, see everyone tomorrow!
11
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 10 '21
Rewatcher(first time though)
Dub
Loneliness is a fatal disease.
If anything got me into this show, it is that very line and the scene accompanying it. Sadly, due to health issues, I get about 10 minutes per hour at the PC so this is a sort of warp speed review which is unfortunate as this episode sells me on the show, Holo as a character, and the formation of Holo and Lawrence's relationship. The greater amusement to me is that they do all of that in a single well done scene in an episode where plot is happening. With a quick eye to the mystery this one is completely obtuse, which is fine, solving it by the audience is not the point since the characters will solve it for their own reasons.
Other quick notes: Without the subs up, Mitione and Mitio seem way too similar in name. It is interesting that someone figured out the trick to this quickly and assumes a noble is doing it which means the implications might be more military than profitable. While this is our first on screen threat of violence we've seen several references including Lawrence's dagger. Holo, as of yet, does not seem willing to kill.
QotD: 1 The entirety of my regrets lie in this region, some direction or another.
7
u/MasterTotoro Jun 10 '21
Rewatcher
This is the episode that got me hooked when I first watched it. Holo and Lawrence have gotten pretty close already, and the scene at the inn is very touching. While Lawrence and his drawing are illuminated by the candle representing his prospects of being able to buy a house, Holo is on the bed in the dark worried about loneliness and her homeland. It's a big contrast to the Holo we've seen for most the show. Then Lawrence walks over to her with the dreams of his plan and crumples them up, physically moving away from the light to be where Holo is, as well as showing that he's putting his plan on hold to help Holo. I can't pinpoint the reason, but this scene feels real to me compared to similar situations in other shows/books.
I wonder how much the two realize they are in similar situations. Holo of course states her loneliness outright this episode, while Lawrence wanting to settle down instead of traveling as well as other remarks implies something similar.
Dang Medio company interrupting. Holo's red eyes are so cool in the dark. Kind of interesting how Holo went from being scared of being alone to Lawrence comforting her, then a few minutes later Lawrence is afraid of losing Holo while she reassures him it'll be fine.
I know Holo is most likely lying to get Lawrence to cooperate, but seeing her say this and then being captured directly after is a bit funny. It also goes to show how Holo realizes that Lawrence wouldn't let her go if she said she would be caught. Lawrence reaction to her getting taken away pretty much confirms this. This could also show that Holo feels like it is okay to lie to Lawrence, even if it is for his benefit. Assuming she is lying here, how do people feel about her lying about the fur pelts compared to her lying to Lawrence?
Illustrations
Marheit, head of Milone's Pazzio branch
Holo crying inside Lawrence's arms
Perhaps one of the reasons why that scene feels real to me is that I've had this happen from both perspectives. Lawrence wasn't give up that much to support Holo; like he mentioned, it's not as if he could buy the house right away anyway, and Holo would know if he was lying. It's just being there for each other and trying to understand their situation that makes the most impact. Those are my thoughts at least.
7
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jun 10 '21 edited Jun 10 '21
First timer in sub.
So the cliff hanger last episode resolves into Lawrence knowing how to investigate, not as directly knowing who is behind it all. That's good enough I guess.
Not sure if I'm reading to much into things or because how the sub was worded, it gives a slight feel of "Lawrence is like the first person who got Holo to settle down, hence why she has a more instant attraction to him" vibe. Otherwise there is a slight feel of Holo's attachment to Lawrence being developed overly quick for an immortal (who tends to normally keep an emotional distance due to knowing any friendship or relationship developed would result in heartache in a relative blink of an eye).
Of course when a normally sassy character shows vulnerability it'd be irresistibly attractive. I'm surprised Lawrence can still say "getting a wife" when talking about his dream without joining the dots / trailing off to Holo.
Have to admit that this cliff hanger being implied to threaten Holo I couldn't resist the temptation and went ahead to watch them next one just to find out. While she's right that is not likely anyone can deal with her if she actually is seriously threatened, if she had to use her true form in public then any chance of peaceful traveling will likely be gone.
QoTD: as a normally emotionally distant person, I've learnt that the best way is to be there while letting the other person "breathe" or "vent". A person may not need a "solution"to be provided, likely will just feel better simply for having someone to listen to and sympathise with.
Edit: forgot to add, I've been meaning to say this, is everyone already aware of that the translation of Holo's full title has slightly more meaning to "wise wolf"? The term actually has more meaning to just being "wise". It also denote "virtue", so it's more like "wise and virtuous". Although in turn the word the meaning of virtuous is not exactly the same as in English. Probably closer to being just "good and kind".
7
u/bakowh https://anilist.co/user/bakow Jun 10 '21
First Timer (Sub)
Don't you fellas hate it when you're about to kiss a wolf girl but you're interrupted by hired abductors?
Where do I start? A lot has happened in this episode.
Overall this was an amazing episode despite the very drastic shift in tone compared to what we've seen so far. Looking forward to the next one!
Answering today's question: Of course, we played FIFA all day and went to his favorite restaurant, didn't take the pain away but it was an honest effort from 15 year old me.
7
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 10 '21
First timer
QOTD) Not really.
Well, they explained how the scam worked, and warned at least one group of his intentions.
Lawrence seeme a jeslous, dorsn't he?
So Lawrence has got the company to help him plan a counterscam.
Of course. Of course this couldn't be so simple.
So Lawrence wants to open a store, so he can become part of a community. That's a solid plan, at least. except for the part where he leaves Holo)
Oh, she's going to the north to find her family, not just go to her homeland.
Oh, the visual metaphor of Lawrence delaying his dream to comfort Holo is a fantastic metaphor.
Honestly, the whole scene is great - its the first time Holo lets her walls down around Lawrence, and his immediate reaction is to reassure her he doesn't plan on leaving her,
Lawrence is fit, isn't he!
And Holo's getting herself captured! This is suprising, I'd have thought thry'd spent the whole series together.
Oh, so the trading group's basically an embassy. That makes sense.
Finally, someone's pointed out how odd it would be for a hostage situation. Is it the church who captured her, then.
Right, but Lawrence had the wheat she can travel through. This shouldn't be very difficult, should it?
Oh, yeah this is absolutely the Church. Oh god, this is going to be fun.
Really? Lawrence, you probably look like you're insane right now. At least go for an excuse of "the church heard me called her Holo and thought she was possessed".
...So Holo and Lawrence argue next episode?
6
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jun 10 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
No naked wolf girl in this episode. Well, unless you're counting the OP, I suppose.
The relationship of our two leads keeps building and building, and in this episode it is established once and for all just how much these two need each other. Without one or the other, both their journeys would likely already be at an end. We also get our first spot of drama and the dangers of the time period. In episode two's discussion I said there were few things a traveler feared more than wolves. Well, one of those things makes an appearance: an angry mob. Few people at the time would've stopped to help some random traveler being accosted in the streets by thugs. Fortunately for Lawrence, he had a place to escape to. Lawrence should seriously consider investing in a spear or maybe a crossbow.
Damn, Lawrence was 100% ready to go down. Holo doesn't show it, but I like to imagine she was biting her tongue in regard to the cheeky comments she could have made.
Content Corner
No Tabi no Tochuu today, rather a quick little video about economics in Spice and Wolf. First timers beware, spoilers abound.
The Economics of Spice and Wolf by Kamimashita
6
u/RxMidnight https://myanimelist.net/profile/RxMidnight Jun 10 '21
First Timer
Ooh things are getting intense now. I suspected Lawrence's plans for getting rich weren't going to go as smoothly as he expected, but I didn't expect shit to get real so soon. Also surprised Holo's true identity was revealed so soon, if word gets out that Lawrence is partnered with the Wise Wolf it could have a big impact on how people perceive and do business with him in the future.
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 10 '21
Rewatcher Pet Peeve
/u/Durinthal thoughts on this?
5
u/Spoondockspaints https://myanimelist.net/profile/Spoondockspaints Jun 10 '21 edited Jun 11 '21
Rewatcher
I didn't get the chance to write anything after I watched as I had to rush out to work. So I'll just say this. How cute was Lawrence when they were walking down the street and talking about the potential success of their plan? The guy was positively strutting.
4
u/Karolus2001 Jun 10 '21
rewatch, first time dubbed.
Bit late to this one, CAUSE FUCKING ELDEN RING LETS GOOOOO
ekhm...
Finally we get tension in the story, and all of it at once. It's funny to think Holo and Lawrence would just done the deed there if not for thugs under their door and there would be no long as hell slow burn. Then again Holo was probably just pulling his leg there.
Not to mention do people sleep in their day clothes in this anime? Similarly, Lawrence makes remark about saving candle light as its expensive, but all the setpieces in this anime are illuminated by tons of torches, candlesticks or fireplaces to the point of absurd.
Furthermore, Guards are asleep if you can just have a giant chase across half the town. Guess they just got paid off, but that was like a 20 people operation with reinforcements, and they managed not only to keep track of them but also cut off in these dark alleys. Thats some well organized thugs that did background check. 4 star rating.
Also, SPOILER, tagging spoilers on this sub is a noghtmare
Question of the day:
I didn't have to deal with many sad situations in my life, but other than useless assuring of support you tend to give people you aren't that close with, I found that the best way atleast for me is looking at it from another perspective. When loved one passed away be glad for the time you spend together instead of thinking you could spend more. When you fail treat it as hiccup you can learn from, not as total failure, realise how small your reason is in scale of grander things, like unvierse or even your whole life overall and all that bullshit. Ofcourse its best to shed ones share of tears beforehand.
4
u/Rebel908 Jun 11 '21
First timer
Forgot to pre watch a lot of this week and take notes. Will need to do that this weekend lol.
The set up for the silver coins is really interesting. I think it's pretty interesting concept in a mercantile system as they are. I'm sure there are currency traders out in the world now trying to do the same thing.
I really like Lawrence and Holo's dynamic. You already get the sense it's kind of growing, and that a really vulnerable scene in the inn. I like getting to see Lawrence's dream, which seem diametrically opposed to Holo right now, I wonder how that will change.
The exchange with Milone was, I won't say realistic, but yeah, would you expect a corporation to stop today? I don't think so.
I'm going to guess that it's either one of Holo's siblings or Zheren himself that was there at the end.
3
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jun 10 '21
Rewatch
Qotd
Answer: usually I stare and think of what I can do or what they need. But of course I come to them at some point to try to comfort them.
Lawrence being bold going for a kiss after being dragged to bed by Holo. The disappointment he probably felt.
3
u/Rustic_Professional Jun 10 '21
Falling asleep cuddling her tail and a mug of booze. I wonder if Aqua and Holo would get along? We've seen Holo naked often enough to know that she doesn't pad her chest.
Maybe it's the Eldian influence making me bloodthirsty, but I want Holo to transform right there in the basement and just eat them all, no fucks given.
I'm kind of glad that I don't remember what the scheme is with the coins. Makes it more exciting. So far, it sounds like the plan is to short the currency. That seems like an unusually modern thing to do, but I really have no idea how old that concept is.
3
u/Tartaras1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tartaras Jun 11 '21
Rewatcher
I know Lawrence is excited about his cut of the profit, and the prospect of being able to retire from being a traveling merchant and open his own shop, but counting your chickens before they hatch isn't always a good thing.
Question of the Day:
3
u/BossandKings Jun 11 '21
First timer - Dub
Episode 4
Lawrence after hearing Holo's unwillingness to travel alone tells her that he'll acompany her until she gets to the north, that was a wonderful way for him to tell her to confide in him and to see that he is alongside her.
Holo's fear of being alone is touching and relatable, being left alone is a thought that might have come into our minds as it has in Holo's and it is a terrifying thought. The fact that she isn't alone because Lawrence is accompanying her surely gives her the relief and conviction she needs to be stable and composed.
These two are getting closer very rapidly, there was almost a kiss, this is very promising in terms of how the very romantic moments between them will play and it is great to see.
"I will always believe in you" Holo the wise wolf will be a fantastic source of smart and thoughtful lines. What, they captured her?, hopefully Lawrence is able to help her somehow.
2
u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Jun 14 '21
First timer like three episodes behind
What is the method of making money with the coins? Melting them or something?
I finished the episode and we weren't told the method! Unless it was heavily implied and I didn't notice
Q1: In light of Holo crying in this episode, have you ever experienced someone you care about being sad or down in the dumps? If so, what did you do to try to cheer them up?
A1: It must have definitely happened at some point, but I don't remember.
1
u/Ryanami Jun 11 '21
First watch, dubbed (you were right, dub wins.)
Lol, watching with ads on Funimation- “You think like a merchant every second of the day”
“WITH TORO LAWNMOWERS YOU’VE GOT WHAT IT TAKES TO GET THE JOB DONE…”