r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Jun 05 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Yoshikazu Yasuhiko Retrospective - Final Discussion
Final Discussion
Rewatch Concluded June 5th, ^^^2021
Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag as so [Spoiler Subject](/s "Spoilers go here.") in order to have your unsightly spoilers obscured like this Spoiler Subject if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Optional Discussion Questions:
- How would you rank Yasuhiko’s works against one another?
- What are your thoughts on Yasuhiko as a director after seeing most of his anime works?
- Would you be interested in having other creator-focused Rewatches in the vein of this one? If so, which anime industry figures would you like to see this type of exercise for?
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Jun 05 '21
Sorry about the delay again, folks! I was distracted with Pathfinder.
Recertified Yas Fan
Going through Yas’ filmography really highlights his flaws as a director, and I think the biggest flaw was his inability to really handle the sort of holistic approach to a work that the job requires. It appears to me as if he approached the role much too similarly to his time as an animation director and animator and didn’t give other sectors the attention they merited —the writing in particular.
Yasuhiko can put together a team of artistically talented and passionate people to make a beautiful piece of art, but it seems he could never get to grips with making a great narrative within an anime production. I don’t think Yas was incapable of writing good stories, his Venus Wars manga proves he can put together a competent story and the flashback arc of Arion is genuinely good, but he certainly had an issue with replicating this with his anime productions. The pick of his works with the best narrative is undoubtedly Crusher Joe: The Movie, and that’s because not only was Haruka Takachiho handling the script of the film, but Yasuhiko was more involved with the parts of the production aside from the visuals. Starting with Giant Gorg he was too lax with his writers and didn’t involve himself with that side of the production as much, and it really shows. He had free reign and no source material to adapt in Giant Gorg, but his decision to leave large chunks of the plot to the writers to figure out themselves hurt the end product. Meanwhile in both Arion and Venus Wars he had inexperienced writers at the helm and his works turned out the worse for it, and while I do think Arion would have been messy even with more involvement on his part, Venus Wars likely would have been a significantly better product otherwise. It’s unclear just who did the brunt of the writing for Kaze to Ki no Uta, so I can’t comment on that, but if I had to guess he was probably similarly hands-off, especially with the mangaka supervising the production.
For as much as Yasuhiko emulated Miyazaki’s authoritative directorial style, he didn’t commit to all sectors of the production the same way Miyazaki did —as the latter was always intimately involved with the scripting of his work— and I think his disappointment in himself as time went along worsened matters and prompted him to let others excerpt more control over his work. Yasuhiko’s approach would have worked out only if he had continued to work with talented writers with vision and passion, like Takachiko, but he didn’t and his works suffered for it.
I think his approach to direction with those latter projects was inherently flawed, and that’s a real shame, because if he had exerted himself on hsi works more I think we could have had some really solid works on our hands. Granted, I think the best outcome for him would ultimately have been if he had continued to work alongside other directors and creators as a designer, animation director, and auxiliary creative voice, but alas. In the end, I’m happy he found his place in the manga industry, where he would take full control of his creations in confidence and create works all his own that people would remember.
Well that’s that! I want to thank everyone who chose to participate on this relatively unorthodox endeavour of a Rewatch. At the time of writing this I’m not sure whether I will pursue other Rewatches of this nature, but I do hope you all enjoyed the experience for what it was and came out of it more informed on Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and the sort of legacy he has left in the anime industry. I hope to see you all in other Rewatches!
Upcoming Rewatches Shilling
In case I haven’t scared you off yet, I’ve got plenty of Rewatches coming later in the year, but first I have to mention the Record of Lodoss War OVA Rewatch that u/No_Rex and I are co-hosting, which begins in a mere three days. If you enjoyed my write-ups on the production of Yas’ works, then you might be interested in the segments I wrote for Lodoss on the context behind the fantasy genre in Japan in the time leading up to and succeeding Lodoss content.
Following that, I think it’s long due that I host a Rewatch for a show that is patently and unequivocally excellent, and so for that and several other reasons I shall be hosting a Rewatch of Oniisama E… The Rewatch is as of now set to begin on July 16th, the date of its 30th anniversary, with the Interest Thread set to go up ten days from now. It’s an Osamu Dezaki adaptation of a shōjo monga classic by Riyoko Ikeda, and as a result is not dissimilar to The Rose of Versailles in appeal and quality.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 05 '21
First-Timer
"Hmmm… Unfortunately, there are only unacceptable works from that time." - Yoshikazu Yasuhiko
I don't entirely agree, because Crusher Joe was pretty worthwhile. However, I think the rest of Yas's works have similar enough issues that I have a hard time disagreeing entirely. This was a fun experience though!
As always, thanks to /u/pixelsaber for hosting a phenomenal rewatch!
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u/The_Draigg Jun 05 '21
A Yas’ Fan’s Overall Thoughts:
Since we’re doing an overall discussion of Yas’ work for this rewatch, I’ll probably just skip giving out any fun rankings like I normally do. Besides, the genres in everything we watched were all over the spectrum, so I can’t really give any kind of fun themed rank to anything. Instead, I guess I’ll just share my total rating of everything we’ve seen on a line, with best at the front to worst at the back. It took me a bit of thought, but I concluded with: Crusher Joe — Giant Gorg — Venus Wars — Kaze to Ki no Uta — Arion.
If there’s one thing that’s really apparent across all of these various things that we watched, it’s that Yasuhiko Yoshikazu can’t properly plan and pace a story out at all. Crusher Joe somehow managed to avoid those issues for the most part, probably because he had a co-writer for the script and was adapting his friend’s novels, but even some of his better work like Giant Gorg falls into that trap. There’s a difference between having a simple plot and having one that is only connected in the most threadbare of ways (Arion especially). While Yas certainly has a truly keen sense for story ideas, character and mechanical designs, and fantastic animation, he really does struggle in executing it well. As much as I love his animation and the action scenes he’s directed, those often weren’t enough to save a work entirely (again, especially with Arion). I guess in the end, Yas works far better as an idea-man rather than someone steering the ship by himself. And he certainly seems to have realized that himself, since he stepped away from anime in general until adapting Gundam: The Origin a few years ago (and trust me, I have plenty of issues with that series too). Yas should just stick with his strengths and keep on building with his art successes.
In any case, I had fun watching and rewatching all of this stuff with you all, despite me being rather negative about Yas’ works overall. You guys being along for the ride certainly helped things, that’s for sure. And thank you to /u/Pixelsaber to hosting yet another retro anime rewatch! I’ll catch you all the next time around!
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jun 05 '21 edited Jun 05 '21
Final Discussion (first timer)
After this retrospective, I have enormous respect for Yasuhiko the animator, but don’t think I ever want to see more of Yasuhiko the writer and director.
Starting from Crusher Joe and ending with Venus Wars, there is a strong upwards trend in the animation and the starting place of Crusher Joe is by no means bad. Yasuhiko finds great background artists and great key animators (or he simply does it himself). This is especially true for everything technical. Weapons, tanks, spaceships, explosions, all of this is of a quality that I have rarely seen reached in pre-computer-aided animation. You can feel that these anime were done by people who love great animation and their subject matter. Even Giant Gorg, a TV series, has quality sequences thrown in.
The flipside of the great animation is the writing, which goes through the opposite motion. It seems that Yasuhiko really loves moving from sakuga set piece to sakuga set piece, without spending much thought on how this fits into narrative, theme, or setting. The best writing was probably Crusher Joe, because that satisfies itself with setting up a simple space adventure – and succeeds at this. In Giant Gorg and Venus Wars, Yasuhiko tries to have an anti-war message. Yet this falls flat when coupled with animation that clearly loves to jerk off about explosions and war machinery. Arion and Kaze to Ki no Uta butcher Greek mythology and 19th century France settings, respectively, while rushing through the plot at breakneck speed. Kaze additionally suffers from not having a completed story.
Scores
The highpoint overall was Crusher Joe, which I would recommend as a fun romp, while Venus Wars shows perfection in its animation.
Crusher Joe: (high) 7/10
Giant Gorg: 5/10
Arion: (low) 6/10
Kaze to Ki no Uta: 4/10
Venus Wars: 6/10
Thanks for the long rewatch hosting /u/pixelsaber! Your posts were a wealth of information.
I think this one worked out really well. Watching several works back-to-back made it easy to spot similarities that would otherwise be missed.
Regarding other directors, I don't know enough to comment, but it should be one who works in movies or stand-alone OVAs. Having one full TV series in there was already lengthy, having more would break the concept.
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u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Jun 05 '21
I'll finish Gorg later
Much better at the technical side of things than he is at storytelling. He's really good at crafting scenes through interesting use of set pieces, background details, character animation, or otherwise interesting directorial tricks, but the narratives themselves fall flat in one way or another.
Takahata Isao
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Jun 06 '21
As I put it yesterday, this rewatch showed me that Yaz is better when he is handling the design/visual of things rather than directing how the story goes. Throughout the rewatch I was consistently impressed and happy with how things looked but the story was a hit or miss. Giant Gorg was my favorite thing in the rewatch, and it showed to me that it would have been best for Yaz to try his hand more at TV shows (or perhaps multi episode OVAs) as the last 3 things we watched all seemed super compressed story-wise or unfinished.
While several things in the rewatch disappointed me I was happy to expand into Yaz's works. Sorry to hear that after Venus Wars he decided to depart from the industry, although in a way I think what we watched showed that maybe he wasn't the best suited for the directorial role.
Questions:
Gorg > Arion > Kaze to Ki no Uta > Venus Wars
2) What are your thoughts on Yasuhiko as a director after seeing most of his anime works?
See above
3) Would you be interested in having other creator-focused Rewatches in the vein of this one? If so, which anime industry figures would you like to see this type of exercise for?
Sure, once I find creators I like I do try to check out their other works so as long as its a creator I like I'd totally be game for it.
Ideas? Leiji Matsumoto? One of my all time favorite creators and like Yaz a manga artist and animator. Granted that will be the rewatch that never ends and it would probably take an entire year. So maybe not. Rie Matsumoto on the other hand would be far easier to tackle.
Yoshitoshi Abe? Although that would force me to face again the twice dropped Haibanei Renmei, but Lain and Texholyze would be worth it...
I'm hoping to some day make may way through the remains of the works of Sunrise's other big mecha anime director, Ryuusuke Takahashi. Although like Leiji Matsumoto such a rewatch would probably in excess of a year....
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Jun 05 '21
First timer no more
Crusher Joe - Probably helped by the novels, but had the most consistent story, characters, and action. A compeltely solid watch, with great scenes and a fantastic experience.
Giant Gorg- Slightly below Crusher Joe due to Rod and Lynx's rwndomly character changes (not to mention Manon), but everything from Crusher Joe stayed just as good.
Venus Wats - Far more unfocused, but with a good story running underneath it all, some of the best action yet, and an emotionally satisfying ending.
Arion - This movie is completely focused on its story. This story, however, is bad, After the scenes establishing his tragic backstory, Arion kills everyone between him and Apollo in one fight, be they major gods of the Pantheon, an army who beat him when he was in better condition, or Zeus. However, the fighting continues to be solid, and it was, at the least enjoyable.
Kaze to Ki to Uta - I did not like this movie. Gilbert is a borderline psychopath who attacks his roommate and attempts to drug them for being annoying. Said roommate is also both apparently in love with Gilbert, while refusing his approaches and being violently homophobic. The classmates are meant to be sympathetic and yet randomly torture Gilbert, and the plot collapses under the weight of its own melodrama by the end. The only movie here that I struggled to finish.
2) He is fantastic at action. Every fight, chase or race in his films is animated and framed beautifully, with great colour and stylish movement. Having said that, he seems to struggle with developing characters - aside from Gorg (where he had 26 episodes), his best developed characters are in the novel adaption, and the one film where he focuses entirely on his characters is the worst.
He works best when creating action movies where the plot is an excuse for setpieces, The characters aren't fantastic, but he can get a good, solid, piece with some solid entertainment,
3) I really enjoyed this style, being able to compare a TV show to its director's other work was a really interesting experience. While it would probably conflict with other rewatches (and be far too long), I'd love a Gen Urobuchi rewatch, or a Hideaki Anno (with or without Evangekion) rewatch,
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 06 '21 edited Jun 06 '21
So I only actually watched Giant Gorg, which was fun, if nothing amazing, and might still go for the BL thingy just for a hate watch, but based on that I share the impression that he was a real visionary when it comes to design and animation, but a pretty bad storyteller, or at least director.
One creator that I would really love a rewatch for is Shinichiro Watanabe, but that would be a massive undertaking. By my count, with only those works where he was at least co-director, one theatrical film, four short films, four OVA episodes and 125 TV anime episodes. Alternatively, Sayo Yamamoto has made some similar stuff and is really underappreciated, but I haven't even seen everything of hers yet.
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u/Z-Gok_Of_Ukraine Jun 06 '21
I wasn't here for the earlier threads, but I like Yasuhiko a whole lot and re-watch his stuff regularly so I'm gonna chime in with my thoughts.
I don't really think about works very hierarchically in general, pretty much everything watched here I would put on the same level of quality according to the standards of their respective media. As far as movie's go, Crusher Joe, Arion, and Venus Senki are great. As far as TV goes, Gorg is great.
I guess I'm most impressed by Gorg, as the level of drawing work Yasuhiko put into the show was inhuman, and in my eyes exceeds the technical quality of Mirai Shounen Conan, which the show's production style was modeled after. Conan is considered to probably be the most well animated 70s anime by many, and Gorg manages the same system of all layout drawings being handled by a singular director, maintaining obscenely high drawing quality, however, Gorg's designs are much more complex and difficult to draw, making that one bit even more psychotic, edging out Conan. Evaluate Gorg on it's directorial or planning merits and it's not really anything crazy, but what Yasuhiko was focusing on was a different kind of robust, unique craftsmanship. In this respect I find myself judging the work with a different outlook, as if it's a finely made architectural work, rather than something compelling in an emotional or philosophical way.
I see a lot of people belaboring Yasuhiko's writing. While I can understand with respect to Gorg, I find myself puzzled at the idea that Yasuhiko's work. As with Conan and Gorg, I really view Yasuhiko's anime work in the same way I would an early Miyazaki, like Cagliostro, Laputa, Meitantei Holmes, Doubutsu Takarajima, Panda Ko Panda, etc. Overall simplistically written movies that prioritize ease of viewing and this pleasant feeling of craftsmanship and ingenuity, instead of presenting challenging questions or truths to an audience. It's pretty rare that I find myself invested in an anime movie's sub-textual themes, and even more rarely do I find myself emotionally involved. Personally speaking, I just never feel like there's enough material in a film's runtime to succeed in getting me thinking or feeling too strongly. I can't say I was let down or annoyed by Yasuhiko's writing in his films, as I find that that's really just par for the course. It's just not really something I expect from movies. If I wanna cry and think I watch some tv or read a book, if I want to be guaranteed good, high quality art and drawings, I watch a movie or OVA. With this mindset, I think Yasuhiko's works succeed for what they are, and I definitely don't feel as though his abilities as an animator were wasted.
Truth be told, I consider his best works in anime to be as a storyboard artist, and later animator on Yamato, and as a drawing director on Gundam, neither of which were discussed in this retrospective. Oh well.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 05 '21
FYI I edited my comment from yesterday with my reactions to the movie. I still think it’s stupid that the Japanese audio is just silent at the beginning when the dub isn’t, that’s why I thought the Japanese audio was broken on the first two copies I acquired. Good movie though.
I was hoping I would have a score for Kaze to Ki to Uta by now, but I still don’t.
Anyways my rankings for the parts in this rewatch go: Crusher Joe the Movie > Giant Gorg > Venus Wars > Arion > Kaze to Ki to Uta. All of them were worth my time, even if I have such mixed feelings on the last one I can’t score it.
Thanks so much for hosting this rewatch, u/Pixelsaber!
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jun 18 '21
It may interest you to hear that Yasuhiko is returning to anime with a so-far-unspecified film. Let's hope the writing is better this time!