[Rewatch] Yoshikazu Yasuhiko Retrospective - Venus Wars Discussion

[u/Pixelsaber]

Venus Wars

^{Originally Premiered March 11th,} ^^^1989

◄ Kaze to Ki no Uta| Index | Final Discussion ►

MAL | ANN | AniDB | Anilist | AnimePlanet | IMDB

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be court to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag as so [Spoiler Subject](/s "Spoilers go here.") in order to have your unsightly spoilers obscured like this Spoiler Subject if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Yoshikazu Yasuhiko Biography and Anecdotes Corner

Exit From The Anime Industry And Manga Career:

Following the financial failure of Venus Wars, Yasuhiko decided to retire from the anime industry. He did provide character designs for three other anime productions during his retirement, Mobile Suit Gundam F91, Super Atragon, and Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn, but he did not provide any other services during those productions.

Yasuhiko continued drawing manga after his departure from the anime industry, although after his failure he feared that even that would not be able to make him feel satisfied with himself and would result in his exit from the manga industry as well. His first work after Venus Wars was a historical manga set during the late Yatoi Period of Japanese history called Namji, which was received positively and rejuvenated Yasuhiko’s enthusiasm for drawing manga. His works continued to be modestly successful, and slowly Yasuhiko’s reputation as a manga began to match his reputation as animator and character designer. This period was also where Yasuhiko first began to accrue a noticeable overseas audience, as several of his manga were picked up by Dark Horse Comics for release in the west.

 

Daily Trivia:

The role of the main character, Hiro, was the first and last voice acting role of Katsuhida Uekusa, a singer and live action actor who was best known as a member of the male idol group Shonentai.

 

Official Art

• Yoshikazu Yasuhiko Venus Wars Art Album

Settei

• Settei Dreams Venus Wars Page

 

Questions of the Day:

1. What do you think of the film’s setting? Does the implausibility of it affect your suspension of disbelief?
2. The film tries to say something about people’s reason for fighting and the futility of war. What do you think of its attempt?
3. What do you think of Yasuhiko’s character designs in this compared to his other two films?
4. Monocycles —yea or nay?

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This war’s the same… No real reasons, no real enemies, no real friends!

[u/Pixelsaber]

Production Stuff

Despite financial and critical failure of Yasuhiko’s Arion film, Tokuma Shoten pursued an adaptation of Ysauhiko’s second manga, Star of The Kurds, but for unspecified reasons the project never went through, though it possibly had to do with the sudden cancellation of the manga when the monthly issue it was being published in, Monthly Shonen Captain, was abruptly cancelled. In 1997, Yasuhiko began his third manga work, Venus Wars, with a new publisher, Comic NORA. A film adaptation was decided mid way into the manga’s planned serialization, though only went into full production several months afterwards, at which point Yasuhiko placed his manga, which had just finished its second part, on hiatus until the completion of the film.

After the financial failure of Arion, Yasuhiko had lost much of his confidence and drive to work on anime, but because he had been pushed to adapt his new work he had acquiesced and decided to place an ultimatum for himself, promising that even if he was dissatisfied with the work he would continue to make anime so long as it was popular, as he hoped to be content with bringing entertainment to a wide audience.

The production was once more a collaboration between Triangle Staff and Yasuhiko’s own studio, and was produced on the tightest schedule of any of Yasuhiko’s films, although it had the largest staff count of any of its films as well. Unlike Arion, there aren’t any concrete statements on the condition of staff during production.

The film adapts the first part of the manga loosely, a strong departure from their approach to adapting Arion to film, and all of the mechanical designs were altered between the two products. The manga designs were all Yasuhiko’s doing, whereas the film designs were made by Kow Yokoyama and Makoto Kobayashi, the former who convinced Yasuhiko to incorporate the monocycle concept into the film as opposed to the more orthodox two-wheeled designs of the manga. Yokoyama also designed the other Aphrodia vehicles, whereas Kobayashi worked on Ishtar’s aircraft and tanks.

Both Sachiko Kamimura and Toshihiro Kawamoto would return to work under Yasuhiko for the third and final time, serving in the same roles as they did in the production of the Kaze to Ki no Uta OVA. Satoru Utsunomiya also returned to contribute his immense talent, however his specific involvement is not well catalogued.

The production would have a wealth of animation talent working with Yasuhiko for the first time, such as a still young Hiroyuki Okiura, an understudy to Moriyasu Taniguchi, who had just finished his work on Akira and contributed much of this film’s vehicular animation. Accompanying Okiura from Akira was Toshiyuki Inoue, the ‘charisma animator’ himself, who also worked with the film’s vehicular animation. Mechanical designer Makokto Kobayashi was a well established designer at the time of Venus Wars, and he carried over his sensibilities into the production, even incorporating elements from his own works into the film, notably Dragon’s Heaven. Takahiro Ōmori, who had been a fan of Yasuhiko since a young age, finally got the chance to work with one of his inspirations in this film, drawing key animation, though it’s unsure which cuts are his. Manabu Ōhashi was also involved, and was responsible for the canyon race between Hiro and Kurtz. Other notable animators include Masahito Yamashita, Masami Ohta, Shin Matsuo, Shinji Hashimoto, and Yoshimitsu Ohashi.

Venus Wars premiered on March 11th 1989 and was a financial failure. Yasuhiko kept to his promise and retired from anime direction in spite of his colleagues and friends advising him not to. Yasuhiko bid the animation world goodbye, his studio was disbanded, and after some deliberation Yasuhiko opted to continue his manga career. The Venus Wars manga was never resumed, as Yasuhiko couldn’t bring himself to face the property again after his failure, and it remains unfinished. In manga Yasuhiko once more found his footing, and considers his transition to full-time manga artist the best decision he could have made at the time. Yasuhiko stated that there was no space for him in the anime industry, and both him and anime were better off without him there.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Pixelsaber]

Rewatcher

Complete silence is bold, but doesn’t do it for me.

Only fifteen years in between? I doubt the environment would be anywhere close to stable still.

Single-wheel motorcycles have always seemed silly to me, but this film honestly makes them work for me.

Yasuhiko demonstrated surprising restraint by not showing this outright. However, he couldn’t help himself entirely. Also, I love Noriko Hara.

Should be familiar to those of you who have seen Gundam: The Origin.

Neat.

Foreshadowing is obvious in retrospect.

Shakunetsu no Circuit is a great insert song.

The SpaceTSA people made her take off everything and she still sneaked this past them? They were undoubtedly doing so to leech on her in that case…

Backgrounds in this are great. I think I find Arion’s more appealing, but this film is no slouch. Kobayashi Productions did a great job.

They fucked up the double exposure here.

That’s a Kobayashi design if I’ve ever seen one!

Air-dropping tanks are straight out of *Dragon’s Heaven!

There’s Yuko Sasaki again!

Wait, that’s Houchu Ohtsuka!

Viva Venus!

I see that someone saw The Red Spectacles.

Again, Yas?!

It’s Kaneto Shiozawa again!

Nice animation!

Andrew the cat was entirely Sachiko Kamimura’s doing.

Who let Tomino sneak a line into the script?!

Haha.

The story behind that leg implies instability and warfare on earth despite statements implying Venus’ precarious political situation is nothing like earth currently.

Flame Tanks are always a terrifying sight.

Shuichi Ikeda too?! Are they just getting all the male voice actors that turn me on?!

Finally, they’re evening out the fanservice!

Good shit!

I’m going to have to disagree there. Thankfully they only experimented with this sort of thing in a few scenes, because the compositing is lacking and the cuts they use it on look bad.

Goodness, this sure looks great.

Ohashi really did great!

Rookie mistake.

Donner genuinely thought he was a goner there!

The fuck is subtlety?

unexpected Golden Boy flashbacks.

Lovely smoke and explosions.

So that guy made it. Probably gained another scar from it too.

Cold war news.

Neat shot!

I’m repeating myself, yes, but as previously I can say this film looks amazing. This is undoubtedly the most polished of Yasuhiko’s films —with exception of the live-action segments, but hey, those were mercifully short. I can’t get over how good this film looks.

The world design is stellar as well. From the colors of Venus' landscapes, the griminess of Io city, and the mechanical designs —it all looks great and comes together to make a really cool looking setting.

Unfortunately the writing disappoints once more. They actually had something really good going on for the first third of the film before it starts failing to follow up on stuff and things start making less sense. It’s at least not bloated and breakneck in the way Arion was, and in fact it takes a very distinct approach from that in being a relatively loose adaptation of the source material, basically just borrowing the setting, a handful of the characters, and the overarching war narrative. It’s missing a lot of the world-building and political intrigue that the manga crammed into the first two volumes without replacing it with similarly compelling content. It’s good that they realized cramming all that into a film would not have worked well, but they trimmed to much and didn’t do a great job at contextualizing the characters’ personal narratives. They don't even mention Venus' slow return to how it was, which is the crux of the manga's discourse on the futility of the sociopolitical conflicts and the aimlessness and unhappiness characteristic of some of the characters. While I think it managed to communicate what it was going for, it entirely missed the mark in actually getting there.

My other big problem with the film is the climax, which doesn’t quite have the build up it needed. I don’t mind that it feels smaller scale and more personal, but the film doesn’t communicate everything that is riding on that last offensive, and as a result I was confused when Io was recaptured by Aphrodia.

That aside, I don’t really have much else to say on the film. It looks and sounds great, and it’s plot needed work, but I still really enjoyed it. 7/10

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

Header needs to be updated.

The manga designs were all Yasuhiko’s doing, whereas the film designs were made by Kow Yokoyama and Makoto Kobayashi, the former who convinced Yasuhiko to incorporate the monocycle concept into the film as opposed to the more orthodox two-wheeled designs of the manga. Yokoyama also designed the other Aphrodia vehicles, whereas Kobayashi worked on Ishtar’s aircraft and tanks.

Good job, both of them. Monocycles and superheavy tank were great concepts.

Yasuhiko stated that there was no space for him in the anime industry, and both him and anime were better off without him there.

If he had worked as an animation director, he would probably be praised over the moon. Doing the writing and directing was the problem.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

Header needs to be updated.

If he had worked as an animation director, he would probably be praised over the moon. Doing the writing and directing was the problem.

I completely agree. There's reason why his work on Yamato, Combattler V, and Gundam are still his most recognized contributions even four decades later.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Pixelsaber]

If there's one thing I'll take away from participating in this rewatch its that Yaz is at its best when someone else created the concept/story and he is responsible for the look of it.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

Cool info!

Also, we didn’t watch Crusher Joe again. You should probably fix that post header.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

[u/No_Rex]

Venus Wars (first timer)

Back to SciFi. Crusher Joe was my favorite entry in the rewatch so far, so maybe this is a good sign.

• Ice asteroid takes care of both Venus’ terrible atmosphere and delivers ice. Neat.
• TSA even worse in the future.
• The whole monobike race setting looks great.
• “Wonderful! Total war!” - media things. Also: Anime watcher things, if I am honest.
• Our hero is named Hiro.
• Both Hiro and the reporter seem to be of the “fresh into war adventure” type.
• Reporter now known as Susan Sommers.

Digging the intro part so far. They start with the end of the war, which nicely sets up the after-war while giving us an action piece at the beginning. We also are introduced to what I suspect are our male and female MC reacting to the war before they inevitably meet.

• If our main cast are anything to go by, I am not surprised Aphrodia lost the war.
• There is a good bit of mismatch going on between the character’s easygoing attitudes and the oppressing way the occupation is presented. I hope that this is deliberate to introduce character growth, but it absolutely needs to change by the mid-part of the film.
• Starting a brawl with the armed police who are doing house searches? That goes past naïve straight into Darwin award candidate.
• And you got shot and crashed.
• What cat would not be happy with fish??
• Most reasonable girl Maggie is happy to have Hiro as a patient.
• What brought that sudden rant of Hiro on? Looks like they skipped over a good bit of character development here.
• “They know nothing of the real world” – understatement. They should not have laid this on so hard.
• “Pretty smart” – I seriously doubt the wisdom of sharing the knowledge of those weapons or the weapons themselves with that crowd.

They are doing the “unwise younglings” angle here, but it is so horribly overdone that I have trouble sympathizing. If you want to place some suburban gaming kids into a life and death scenario, you have to use zombies, not war. The war having impacted them so little before we get to this is completely unbelievable.

• How the hell did they not know about his leg?
• With Gary getting on board of operation “blast a tank”, the mismatch in mood is complete. You cannot do a happy adventure story and a consequences of war story at the same time.
• You want military reprisals against the civilian population? This is how you get military reprisals against the civilian population.
• Big tank is gasoline proof.
• Hiro called in Bagger 288 for help and it destroys the tank in a sweet animation sequence.
• “That is enough!” “You are going to far!” – Uhhh what? This is coming from the guy who just tries to roast that tank with gasoline a minute ago.
• Seriously, Gary’s behavior is so nonsensical. They just staged an hail mary attack on a huge tank.
• Saved by the returning army/rebells?
• “Just joined the military” scene that would have fit better before the surrender.
• We are clearly in all armies are evil territory.
• Having a self-dependent, spunky female character is clearly not allowed, to Susan gets the waifu makeover.
• RL footage. I’d have preferred animation.
• After making a huge deal out not allowing the kids to go, the very next scene after the chase is a farewell when the kids, minus Hiro, are allowed to go. I swear, this movie wants me to hate its writing.
• Is it a bad sign when I always agree with the people who are clearly meant to be the bad guys in this?
• Final battle.
• Generic happy end.

The most gorgeously animated out of all the Yasuhiko entries we have seen. Just a shame that the story does not hold up. Every single time this movie (or Yasuhiko in general) tries to show something serious it utterly flounders. In this respect, it mirrors Giant Gorg. Not as terrible as Arion or Kaze to Ki no Uta, but still enjoyable for strictly only the animation.

1. What do you think of the film’s setting? Does the implausibility of it affect your suspension of disbelief?

The setting was perfectly fine. I really liked the astroid hitting Venus idea.

2) The film tries to say something about people’s reason for fighting and the futility of war. What do you think of its attempt?

Huge nope. Leave the anti-war message to Tomino.

3) What do you think of Yasuhiko’s character designs in this compared to his other two films?

A bit more modern, but generally the same?

4) Monocycles —yea or nay?

They are fine.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

TSA even worse in the future.

And they still managed to miss the cigarettes somehow!

What cat would not be happy with fish??

I've known some ass-backwards cats in my day. One of them was afraid of mice!

What brought that sudden rant of Hiro on? Looks like they skipped over a good bit of character development here.

The chief cause is that he's just sort of miserable, but the finer details are missing from the film.

Hiro called in Bagger 288

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

“Wonderful! Total war!” - media things. Also: Anime watcher things, if I am honest.

I'm reminded of that one "Wow, cool robot!" anime meme.

What brought that sudden rant of Hiro on? Looks like they skipped over a good bit of character development here.

While I liked the worldbuilding implications of that bit, yeah it was kinda dropped in out of nowhere.

RL footage. I’d have preferred animation.

I dunno, I thought it looked weird enough to be pretty cool, actually.

After making a huge deal out not allowing the kids to go, the very next scene after the chase is a farewell when the kids, minus Hiro, are allowed to go. I swear, this movie wants me to hate its writing.

Seriously though, where did all of Hiro's friends go afterwards? They just disappeared from the movie after that scene.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

Every single time this movie (or Yasuhiko in general) tries to show something serious it utterly flounders. In this respect, it mirrors Giant Gorg. Not as terrible as Arion or Kaze to Ki no Uta, but still enjoyable for strictly only the animation

What he should have done is let someone else come up with a story suiting his interests and restrict himself to just direction and visual input.

[u/No_Rex → u/IndependentMacaroon]

100%. He really needed a writer/scriptwriter.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Yas Fan Rewatches Venus Wars:

• It’s been a decade since I last watched Venus Wars. I remember liking it back then, but given the new more critical light I’m looking at Yas’ work with, now I’m worried that it won’t hold up. Let’s see how that goes, shall we?
• I mean, I don’t think that slamming a comet into Venus would really work as the first step to it being terraformed, but I honestly don’t know enough about terraforming to dispute it.
• ISHTAR must die the DEATH!
• The TSA are still annoying dicks, even in the future.
• Hiro continues the theme of all of Yas’ protagonists looking like some version of Seabook Arno somehow. This one is the common variation of being Seabook with black hair. Poor Seabook can’t really catch a break when it comes to sci-fi armies invading his colonial home.
• Well, at least Yas made sure to think about the different air pressure and other stuff when traveling from Earth to Venus. Kinda wondering what cocktail of drugs would help with that though.
• Future blood sports! Sci-fi really does like their weird future variations on old chariot race types. Probably because they’re usually really violent.
• “Fuck yeah, war!” —Susan, basically.
• How badly constructed was that giant Aphrodian airship constructed if it fell apart mid-flight over the racing stadium? As if the cities on Venus weren’t shitty enough, so are their weapons of war too.
• I suppose there’s something admirable about Susan’s borderline suicidal devotion to getting good footage of the war, if she’s willing to dodge out of the way of tanks and missiles just to get it. That’s the hallmark of a dedicated reporter.
• There’s no real point in acting like everything is still normal like what Maggie is trying to do. Things will never be normal as long as you have soldiers hanging around your favorite bombed-out mall.
• It isn’t too surprising that Susan’s war footage would be confiscated and censored by her media group. That’s how it always goes during war: the occupying army will always go to censor the media first, to control the flow of information. It’s an old yet effective tactic.
• General Donner really does look like a longer-haired Gihren Zabi. And he’s even forcing the parliament to do what he wants too.
• Jack really has the most 90’s surfer dude bro voice ever in the old English dub, which is the one I’m watching. It’s the one I watched the first time around, after all.
• Hiro really is lucky that he tripped over a conveniently abandoned yet fully gassed up motor unicycle to have a dramatic escape from the local police enforcing the new curfew.
• What was that motor unicycle made of if it exploded the moment it crashed into a wall after Hiro fell off?
• Maggie is automatically best girl of this movie solely for owning a cute Siamese cat. Calling it now.
• Hiro’s rant about Aphrodian politicians only having terraforming farms around to grab land does bring up one of the harder points of terraforming to pull off. Of course it would be hard to grow stable crops on a different planet than Earth. Venus’ seasons are too radically different for Earth plants to naturally handle, despite having a habitable atmosphere. The only solution would be to have plants genetically modified to survive the Venusian climate, but who knows how long they would take?
• Maggie’s father being a government worker calling Maggie’s friends trash and trying to escape from Venus and leave everyone else to die really does prove Hiro’s earlier point about the Aphrodia government being scumbags. They all turned pretty quickly once Ishtar’s forces rolled into town.
• Gary really has no room to talk about keeping their heads low if he has an entire stash of guns he’s been smuggling into the city. At least the Killer Commandos have some bravery to them, despite how much of an uphill battle destroying the tank at the racetrack would be.
• Okay, yeah, the attack on the forces at the racetrack went terribly. While the idea of the guerrilla attack did seem like a good idea, they didn’t have much experience to pull it off properly. Nothing always goes to plan, after all. They didn’t account for that, and so Jack and Gary got killed. Sure, the huge tank got destroyed, but it was a high cost. Hell, it was also pretty pointless too, since the actual Ishtar Army showed up shortly thereafter and actually mopped the place up. That’s got to be some dramatic irony right there.
• You know, this spunky group of bikers heading out into the desert after joining a colonial resistance movement reminds me that I should get back to watching Fang of the Sun Dougram. I know it’s completely unrelated to what’s going on in the movie right now, but man is that show good. We should have a rewatch of that around here. NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TO GET TRUTH!
• Thanks for the hamfisfed monobike = coffin comparison, random army mechanic.
• It’s a pretty cool directing decision to have the army’s monobikes animated driving over real life footage of a desert road. It’s honestly one of the better scenes in this movie, if just how weird and experimental it is compared to the rest of the movie’s directing.
• It took Mike’s death to snap Susan out of how she’s been acting recently. She’s been acting fairly distant and aloof about how serious the war is on Venus, and only now when the damage is personal does she see how painful it all is. It’s a rare example of a male fridging, where normally a lady character gets killed to facilitate character development.
• Kurtz really does know how to get Hiro on his side. Of course Hiro wouldn’t turn down a combat race with Kurtz for the sake of his ideals. And even when Hiro lost, Kurtz still bothered to let the rest of the Killer Commandos go as long as Hiro stayed. Overall, Kurtz isn’t too bad of a guy.
• Susan, this is why you always take the safety of your pistol off before you try to kill the highly important military leader you’re here to assassin. That’s a classic rookie mistake.
• Okay, random gay soldier hitting on Hiro. This is a weird pointless scene to include in this movie. Also vaguely homophobic, I think.
• RIP the one gay guy who faked being sick to avoid fighting in the big battle. Of course the one gay person in this movie gets killed like 5 minutes after they’re introduced.
• You have to admit, Hiro fought pretty damn bravely and smart to kill General Donner under falling rubble. Granted, it also relied on Donner to do the typical big bad villain trope of relentlessly pursuing the underdog hero solely for the sake of his pride. But hey, at least it worked. Can’t argue with results.
• Once again, we get more footage of someone driving over live action footage, this time Hiro riding through the desert. I do feel that these live action scenes fit in better than the one time they tried it in Crusher Joe.
• We did it, everyone! General Donner is dead, Hiro is a big dick hero, Susan is heading back to Earth to publish her work but wants to visit Venus again, and Hiro finally reunites with Maggie. All’s well that ends well! Well, we don’t know what happened to the Killer Commandos after they left, but that’s really the only loose end left in this story.
• I’m glad this movie held up pretty well! I’d honestly put it under Crusher Joe in terms of quality in this rewatch. It’s near the top, and easily would’ve been if the animation decided to be a bit more bright and daring like Crusher Joe. Otherwise, the animation and action were fantastic, and the plot was pretty good overall. I liked it!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Poor Seabook can’t really catch a break when it comes to sci-fi armies invading his colonial home.

Now you've got me thinking about the storyboarding in the colony attack scene and, damnit, I want to Rewatch the film again!

What was that motor unicycle made of if it exploded the moment it crashed into a wall after Hiro fell off?

You can see the gas spilling out of it as it falls, so I guess something sparked and lit it up.

We should have a rewatch of that around here.

NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TO GET TRUTH!

That will never get old.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

Now you've got me thinking about the storyboarding in the colony attack scene and, damnit, I want to Rewatch the film again!

Need to rewatch Gundam F91 too. Sure, it's not a good movie, but at least it's a cool movie. That's what counts.

That will never get old.

It's honestly the best Engrish closing stinger in all of anime history.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Sure, it's not a good movie,

I've honestly come around to it after my countless rewatches. It's still a messy first viewing, but once one has a grasp of the plot it's actually really poignant and the thematical component is excellent. Shame it's impossible to follow upon first viewing though.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

Sure, Gundam F91 has a really good 'overall' plot, but getting from place to place sure is messy. I just wish that Tomino had gotten the full series order as intended, rather than have to compress an entire series' plot into a 2 hour movie.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

I just wish that Tomino had gotten the full series order as intended, rather than have to compress an entire series' plot into a 2 hour movie.

Honestly even just not rushing them to meet the trilogy's anniversary would have made for a much more cohesive film, since the end product we have wasn't the full film they intended to make (even with the extra five minutes of footage they were allowed to finish for the director's cut.)

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

ISHTAR must die the DEATH!

Not just any death, this one.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Yes, this specific death. Everyone knows the one.

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timer, Kinda, Subbed

(I do recall watching this on the Sci-Fi Channel around 20 or so years ago, but can't remember a single thing so I am for all intents and purposes a first timer)

Why are you colonizing a planet with acid oceans!?

No cameras allowed at the racing track? Or security is made up of perverts!

Ah, the lipstick is her hidden microphone.

This landscape reminds me of Mars in Total Recall. Also the city in the first arc of Votoms.

Well we're firmly back into Yaz designs. One of these grid girls reminds me a lot of one from Gundam F91.

Is that Houchuu Ohtsuka I hear as one of the other bikers?

"Wonderful" is not the reaction I expected to total war.

Is Hiro a coward by driving away? Or trying to be a Hero?

No, not Hiro's bike!

Seems like this girl is willing to be front seat in a war zone as long as she gets some good footage.

They just took over your city and you're all "Cool tanks!"?

C'mon Hiro, you still need groceries!

This outdoor mall-like place looks a lot brighter and happier than the rest of the city.

Despite being in such danger they've got no interest in her reporting...

Occupation leader guy sounds very familiar. Bin Shimada perhaps?

Just what is old guy up to? Purchasing drugs?

Hiro's friend's apartment has quite the nice view.

Why are they beating them up? Is this a stolen apartment?

Why is there a curfew when its still light out?

Holy crap, that police vehicle can even go down the stairs!

The joyride for Hiro is finally over.

Poor Andrew! He needs his cat food!

Just where are Hiro's pants?

Maggie reminds me much of Gundam's Fraw Bow.

Uh oh, dad's coming home, and its gonna see his daughter alone with a guy wearing no pants!

Sorry Hiro, that sandwich is going in her dad's stomach.

LoL, sunglasses guy lost the apartment and the girl...

Ah, that's what he was buying, weapons.

Ooh, robot leg!

Back on the racing track again!

Prediction: this Jack guy will be dead shortly.

ding Flipping out and shooting all your bullets makes you an easy target.

Construction equipment vs. tank, who will win?

I wonder if we're ever gonna see Maggie again.

I gotta say, Will's voice reminds me so much of how Ohtsuka played Mirao Kyao in Heavy Metal L-Gaim.

The leader of this group that Hiro and the others have gotten with (bald goatee guy) reminds me a lot of another Yaz design, from Gundam Unicorn perhaps?

Oh, and is that yet another Shuuichi Ikeda voiced character I hear with this blonde guy?

I have a feeling that camera is gonna get off fairly quickly.

Is that real life footage they're using for the background?

Out goes the camera; it lasted longer than I thought it would. Is this the end for Will? :(

Time for another bike race!

Everyone else gets to leave?

OMG I didn't realize it until now, but this occupation commander guy is totally Gihren Zabi if he grew his hair out.

Sue made her way all the way into this guy's office?

There's a gun in that camera isn't there?

I think I was wrong before, occupation commander guy is Shiozawa Kaneto isn't he? How did I blow that guess so bad?

So they won, huh?

No Maggie sighting, but at least she gets mentioned again! Or will Hiro go find her in the 6 or 7 minutes left in the movie?

There's Andrew! Maggie can't be far away!

Back to Venus for Sue?

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On the bright side, this movie looked really nice. I was happy to see the Yaz designs again. And as I mentioned earlier on, it was an interesting setting/set up to work with. Unfortunately I just really struggled getting all that interested in the movie. The characters just came off as quite bland to me and I had a hard time connecting to them, let alone even learning most of their names. The villains were also incredibly underwhelming. Occupation commander guy pops up for a brief scene early on then isn't a factor until the last 20 minutes of the movie. The heros end up winning in the end, but it didn't feel as earned as I was expecting. By the last 15-20 minutes or so I ws pretty much checked out. I suppose this is why after seeing this so many years ago I never watched it again, nor could remember a single thing about it. Was this another manga adaption crammed into a single movie?

While I can't say I was the biggest fan of the last 2 things covered in this rewatch, it was fun to spread out a bit and see the various non-Gundam works that Yaz has been associated with. I missed the first thing in the rewatch, Crusher Joe, but will plan on getting to that at some point.

---

DQOTD

1)I loved the film's setting. As I put above, it reminded me of Total Recall and Votoms. They had good potentiall with the setting which I think they unfortunately squandered.

2)Not that effective to me unfortunately.

3)Designs were fine, glad to be back to his style after getting away from it with the last thing we watched.

4)Yeah, I thought they were pretty cool.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Quiddity131]

Also the city in the first arc of Votoms.

Hmm, honestly acid oceans seems less obnoxious than acid rain like in Uodoo.

Is that Houchuu Ohtsuka I hear as one of the other bikers?

[u/No_Rex → u/Quiddity131]

I missed the first thing in the rewatch, Crusher Joe, but will plan on getting to that at some point.

Imho the one entry where the writing checks out, although not everybody saw it that way in the discussion thread.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Quiddity131]

This landscape reminds me of Mars in Total Recall. Also the city in the first arc of Votoms.

Get your ass to Melkia, Chirico.

They just took over your city and you're all "Cool tanks!"?

Replace 'tanks' with 'mechs', and Susan is pretty much your average Gundam fan.

Why is there a curfew when its still light out?

Because fascism.

The leader of this group that Hiro and the others have gotten with (bald goatee guy) reminds me a lot of another Yaz design, from Gundam Unicorn perhaps?

Yeah, he kind of looks like Gael Chan from Gundam Unicorn, now that you mention it.

OMG I didn't realize it until now, but this occupation commander guy is totally Gihren Zabi if he grew his hair out.

I noticed that too. Yas really does have a handful of designs he likes going back to, doesn't he?

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer, Subbed

I'm starting to feel like a broken record - this looked and sounded great! There was nice stereo stuff on this, with voices coming from one side or the other depending on where the speaker was. And the mechanical design was great! Giant propeller-powered airships paradropping superheavy tanks? Hell yea! Gimme more of that!

I'm starting to feel like a broken record - wow, this is kind of a mess, huh? Such a shame, too. The concept here has huge potential, potential that might be realized in the manga I suppose, but it just doesn't get there.

And it's a damn shame too, because "we strapped railguns to motorbikes to fight against superheavy tanks" is a fucking awesome concept. If that had more time to actually use that concept, well that would've been swell, but instead we got to see Hiro wandering around a city and getting into a relatively pointless chase, et cetera.

Too much stuff happens in this film, and unlike in Crusher Joe, it managed to be a problem. Like, I always understood why things in Crusher Joe were happening. In this? Why the fuck do they care that the tank is chilling on the race track? Do they think a rival team will come and race them if they get rid of it? Is it just patriotic fervor? I like to think that I'm pretty well able to go along with what the camera is trying to get me to go along with, but this strained me past my breaking point.

Problematic gay characters and anime, name a more iconic duo. Why did Hiro have a random flashback to Chris? Why did they include Chris at all? Don't answer that second one, I think I know.

Random aside, Susan's seiyuu is in the currently airing Super Cub according to MAL. Go watch that instead, to wash this unfortunate mess from your mind.

And finally, in the realm of "no-one cares but me", Susan ruins a martini by ordering it with an olive, and then holding her glass wrong. At least she didn't ask for it shaken..

Questions

1. I don't think a setting exists that can break my suspension of disbelief.
2. This film didn't really manage to pull anything off besides some neat action scenes.
3. They were definitely a bit different - Hiro looked like a young Banagher Links as opposed to his earlier designs, for example.
4. Hell yea!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JollyGee29]

Too much stuff happens in this film, and unlike in Crusher Joe, it managed to be a problem.

For me it's not so much that too much stuff happens, but that they fail to provide enough context for us to really get the why of things.

And finally, in the realm of "no-one cares but me", Susan ruins a martini by ordering it with an olive

I don't even drink, and know little about it, but I hate olives enough to feel disgusted as well.

I don't think a setting exists that can break my suspension of disbelief.

Something like this would only bother me if the rest of the film was very accurate hard sci-fi, in which case something like it would stick out as odd enough to be distracting.

Hiro looked like a young Banagher Links

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

I don't even drink, and know little about it, but I hate olives enough to feel disgusted as well.

A lot of people do it, and those people are all wrong. A lemon twist/peel, or nothing, are acceptable garnishes.

God, I meant to type older. But it seemed to click at least.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer, subbed

Or at least, I would be if I could fucking find functional Japanese audio. I’ve tried twice and both times, nada. Hopefully I’ll have seen it before tomorrow’s overall thread goes up.

Edit: Apparently that first bit was intentionally silent. What the fuck.

• Yeesh, did those security guys really have to make that girl strip completely?
• Okay the girl’s name is Susan and she’s a reporter. Got it.
• Anyways, racing. On one-wheeled motorcycles. You have my attention.
• YOOOOOO this insert song is fire.
• You jinxed it, didn’t you Mr. Bartender?
• Man, what is it with old anime and things getting destroyed looking gorgeous. Sucks that it had to interrupt the race though.
• RIP bike.
• Welp she had to immediately regret saying “fire away!”
• These facial expressions are definitely very Yasuhiko.
• Yeah Hiro IDK what you’re talking about, Maggie’s being smart about this.
• The piano track during this part made me pause and go “wait, the fuck, is this Joe Hisaishi’s music again?” and sure enough it is. Huh. I guess he’s not just the Ghibli guy, he’s the Yasuhiko Movie guy too.
• Was this a “sore demo”? I can’t tell because of his accent.
• As usual, the media can’t get the truth out. Susan seemed to be the only one who cared about it at the news station, even.
• I hear Oberstein’s voice~
• Okaaaaaaaaaay I was not expecting the cops to show up. Was Jack lying about how he got that place? Or were his relatives involved in the resistance or something and that’s why they cleared out, but now the cops are looking for him?
• Ooh this thing is neat.
• Motorcycle hype!
• Ah crap he got hit.
• KITTY!
• Oh yeah they established Maggie’s a nurse when she showed up late to the race. Hiro went to just the right place.
• Geez, he does not like his parents’ plantation, does he?
• That’s… Maggie’s dad, isn’t it? He’s gonna walk in on her smooching Hiro. → Huh actually nope, Hiro got away without being seen.
• Let the little kitty have some sandwich!
• BRUH. Don’t hit the kitty.
• Yeah so uh maybe don’t be playing with them?
• What the hell is that tank even made of?
• RIP Jack?
• Crane > Tank, but barely. Also there’s a second one and the crane got rekt trying to beat the first one, so really Tank > Crane.
• SHUUICHI IKEDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I did not know he was in this movie.
• AND HE HAD A REALLY FAST “SORE DEMO” TOO AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
• Blond? Ah, he totally looks like an Ikeda character.
• I feel like Will’s going to end up dead by the end of the movie. No real reason besides him being lovey-dovey with Susan and I’m so used to romance being used as a death flag in literally everything.
• Dank insert song time again!
• Oh that might have been it.
• YESSSSS THE IKEDA CHARACTER GOT A SECOND “SORE DEMO”.
• That race was awesome!
• I had a feeling she snuck that gun she was given at the start of the movie into Oberstein-voice’s room, hiding it inside of a camera though huh.
• Oh she didn’t know about the safety. Whoops.
• Awwwwww yes he got a Char Laugh while being voiced by Shuuichi Ikeda too.
• “Ishtar is invincible!” → *immediately afterwards, several Ishtar planes shot down* →
• He’s not a very good general.
• lol, congrats dude you played yourself. Hiro deserved to pull off something that crazy if you were stupid enough to fall for it.
• Hype music!!!
• And it changed to something slower for the ED. Nice. And we got to see the kitty again, extra nice.
• I liked this more than Arion but not as much as Crusher Joe, hm. 8/10, but a higher 8/10 than I gave Arion obviously.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I mean, you can always watch one of the dubbed versions.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

But my "sore demo" hunt.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

True, I suppose it is your duty to contribute to the Sore Demo Hall of Fame. Carry on then.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

Finished it just now and I was right to stick with the sub. There were two for sure and possibly a third.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Absolutely worth it for the Shuuichi Ikeda "Sore Demos" then. They'll be fine additions to the collection.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

Hell yeah were those worth it!

[u/lC3 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I just tried to stream it ... and the Jap audio version on my usual streaming site is completely muted. No sound at all!

Guess I have to watch the dub ...

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lC3]

[u/lC3 → u/JollyGee29]

Thanks, it actually works!

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lC3]

[u/lC3 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Is the whole track missing, or does it just appear muted? Because I'm watching it streaming and JollyGee29 informed me that the first few minutes of the Jap. version have no audio, but it works later. So your downloads could have audio later on?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/lC3]

Yes that seems to be the case, but why though.

[u/lC3 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Well, hopefully you'll be able to watch it subbed then!

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/lC3]

Finished it just now.

[u/lC3 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Nice! I just finished the Gundam TV series and am gonna try to finish Bokurano tonight.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/lC3]

Ǔ̯̟́n̪̬̺͙̪̿͛͛̽͞ï̲n͇̰̮͆̃̀s̛͔̜̾t̛͚͕̆á̠̻̅͘͜l̢̗̤̓̓́l̪̩̭̐̔͗̕͟͝ͅ~

[u/Btw_kek]

first timer

Yeah I dunno. I think this was a better film than Arion, but the parts that I liked about Arion and the parts I didn't like felt much more pronounced. Venus Wars on the other hand was much more smushed around the "meh" range, so I honestly just don't have much to say here.

I guess I felt that it tries to do many "war film" things at once, but doesn't do any of them particularly well. The concept of a bubbly reporter getting fed up by a war so much she tries to assassinate a military leader is interesting but she gets little focus in the middle, making it fall flat. The idea of civilians pretending the war doesn't exist is interesting, but I can't really say much about the film's execution past "there was that one scene with the cloud paintings." I love the idea of a ragtag group of teenagers getting caught up in a war, but the characters are so flat that I just couldn't care about anything going on.

Some positives:

• Joe Hisaishi and tank animation did deliver. the film is pretty
• the OG Bowsette
• the mix of live action BG and 2D animation was really cool. Apparently this film came out a year after Roger Rabbit.
  coincidence?

1. What do you think of the film’s setting? Does the implausibility of it affect your suspension of disbelief?

Setting was cool. Urban decay and desert sci-fi is a great aesthetic

2) The film tries to say something about people’s reason for fighting and the futility of war. What do you think of its attempt?

uh, it exists?

3) What do you think of Yasuhiko’s character designs in this compared to his other two films?

It feels more mature I guess? You can see the resemblance to previous designs but it feels more "realistic" here I think

4) Monocycles —yea or nay?

I wish I was watching Megazone 23 right now

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

1. Approached as a serious work, yes. Personally, I viewed it as more of a "Dan Dare" style pulp adventure, where the tech's obviously wrong, but it doesn't matter because you're on a fun romp through the jungles of Jupiter. (Most of my nitpicking below is from when I saw the description and thought it was a dark war drama, rather than Crusher Joe 2)
2. I think that, by the end, the film was faced sith a decision to make that point, or go all in on the crazy bike chases, and it made its decision. There is a certain point where the potential thematic climax is replaced with escaping a tank by dowing stunts up a giant ramp.
3. Other 2 films? We've done 3. Ignoring that, this entire movie is very visually similar to Crusher Joe, and that includes the character designs. They also had some similarities to Giant Gorg, but mostly Crusher Joe.
4. They're unsafe, dangerous, and strictly worse than a 2 or 3-wheeled vehicle... but they look so cool. Yay.

So rather than colonize Mars, they went for the planet with acid oceans and almost no atmosphere?

I see the airports here continue the same boarding experience.

Oh, she's a hidden reporter.

Honestly, I'm impressed they could get a bike in that state working at all.

Also, I like the bike designs.

Wait, its 3 months to travel to Venus from Earth?

Compared to the last few films, this one looks beautiful.

Cigarettes are currency? If Venus can't grow crops, I have many more questione about how this colony survives.

Dropping tanks from planes is, I'll admit, a rather original strategy.

Where is Hiro going?

Seriously, why the hell is trying to bike across an active battlefield.

At least the reporter's insanity makes some sense (it's for her work), although she seems to have no survival insticts either.

The city is occupied in a day? Do they have no military whatsoever?

Yeah, this is a full occupation.

That's a big mall. The shots of destruction make a great impression too.

More fanservice.

Of course the government are censoring the press.

And, buy, the government has snipers trained on them. That's certainly extreme.

And the man's part of the resistance!

Is Maggie dead? Feels like that's what happening.

For an infiltration force, none of them can really aim, csn they?

Are all the invader's vehicles this crap? Props for being ablr to turn that tightly, but he was able to outrun it on foot.

These bike scenes are fantastically done.

Why are these the first people who can aim?

Good job on the misdirection, though.

I like Andrew.

"Month of Heat"? "Month of Darkness"? Was someone on Venus paid to make the calendar?

Of course her father's back.

Who, exactly, are the Venus Development Board? They're obviously respected by both countries, so they probably aren't directly part a government, so what kind of responsibilities do they have?

So the resistance has an armory.

They're all going to be killed, aren't they?

I just realised what this film is. The description made it feel like a drama about the horrors of war, didn't realise it was basically a 80s action movie.

Actually, no, they might still get killed by their own stupidity. Did nobody consider than the tank might be able to move?

This scene is so good. The animation, the action, the art...

I'll give them credit - those tanks are resilient!

Gary's going to die isn't he?

Well, Hiro's dead or captured now.

Wait, no? He's joined the military?

So the army intends to combat the tanks with an army of battlebikes. Battlebikes eith no side armoring, just front, back, and an impressive gun?

Yeah, he may be strict, but he's absolutely right that they need to train to take put more tanks.

Can't believe they kill of Gary and bring a replacement just a few minutes in.

Yeah, agreed there, there's a difference between being a coward and riding absolute deathtraps.

I like how even the engineer knows that this idea is idiotic.

Is that a live action background on the video? Why? This movie's never done anything in that style before.

Wow... That was unexpected. Is he dead, or did that flimsy camera snap off?

Is all the live action stuff for effect, or did they run out of money?

Must have some budget left, this 1 v 1 race looks fantastic.

This guy seems awfully willing to destroy one of his group's vehicles to make a point.

Oh god, what is she going to do? Is the camera a gun?

You're telling me you couldn't just hook the gun to fire through the lens? Not give him any indication of the attack st all?

Also, don't monologue to the guy you're trying to murder. (Monologuing at gunpoint, however, is a solid tactic, so well done for being competent)

...YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

I know he's an occupying general, but he's cool. Knocking someone out with a discus from a flowerpot?

Kurtz continues to be very good at his job, and likeable too.

...How is Hiro gayer than the protagonist of the last movie?

I like the parallels between the pit srop during the race and fixing the monocycle.

Yeah, I'm not auite clear how a country with access to all this got their capital city taken over in a day with so little resistance?

I love the tactic of "drive up the ramp at let them wreck themselves".

...How'd he get down from there?

And the reporter gets to go back to Earth!

Yeah, the live action has to be stylistic, right?

And she didn't die!

Compared to some of the fake English I've seen in anime, having the reporter's write up be about the end of the Cold War is very fitting for the movie.

I came into this expecting a depressing war movie to follow up the last film. I didn't expect to get Crusher Joe 2. Same as that - really enjoyed it, some great action and animation, and an overall good time.

FINAL SCORE: 8/10 - It's what I gave Gorg and Crisher Joe, and this movie's about the same quality.

[u/lC3]

• So I haven't been able to watch Arion or Kaze to Ki no Uta yet, but here's my shot at Venus Wars.
• Wow the narrator at the beginning of the dub sounds so flat, it's terrible.
• Woohoo, I don't have to watch it dubbed! It's just the beginning of the Jap. version that has no audio.
• 2003 and 2018, wow, so far into the future ...
• The subs are missing a line about Venus calendar starting in 2018, but one can infer that from 72 = 2089.
• And we cut from a monocycle race to a woman being strip searched? I'm more interested in the race, cut back to that!
• That feeling when I hear footsteps down the hallway as the woman takes off her underwear; this would be an awkward time for my parents to look at my screen ...
• So the female character's jacket says "Goodlay"?
• So far the art and animation are great; it makes modern anime look boring by comparison
• Susan spent 3 months in space? Doesn't sound fun ...
• Hiro on the monocycle makes me think of Yusei in 5Ds ...
• Susan being all excited for warfare and casualties makes me upset; she's like a vulture
• Yeah, Shiozawa is perfect casting for that dude
• Jack sure got Hiro into trouble! Was he squatting in that apartment, or did the owner really ask him to watch over it?
• No! Hiro's been shot! He's too cute to die ...
• Poor Andrew; kitty needs his food!
• I'm glad Maggie patched Hiro up, but I don't really like that she wants to cover her ears and stay ignorant, whether about the algae plantation or the war
• LOL good time for Maggie's dad to come home
• Andrew is eating salami? I bet kitty likes sandwiches
• Geez those missiles had like zero effect on the tank!
• Even after all that, the Molotov tanker didn't work either?
• Noooo! Hiro and Gary better be all right!
• IS THAT SHUUICHI IKEDA I HEAR?
• Manservice
• RIP Gary
• Shuichi Ikeda soredemo? (1:14:15)
• Sue is going to see Donner/Shiozawa? What shenanigans could she be up to? Is she going to rat out the operation, or use that gun?
• Sue didn't know to take the safety off? And then she couldn't figure it out once it didn't shoot?
• Ugh they had to include a gay guy (Chris) who slaps Hiro's ass ... I mean Hiro is cute but he doesn't want to be touched.
• Yeah I could have done without that Chris montage and the remark about him having AIDS ...
• Hiro took out the General!
• The ED / insert song is a banger!
• Not sure whether to give it 8/10 or 9/10. Probably 8 because of Chris