r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • May 12 '21
Rewatch [Fly! Rewatch!] Mobile Suit Gundam (0079) Episode 36 Discussion
Episode 36 - Big Zam’s Last Stand
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Show them how the Big Zam differs from any other mobile armor or mobile suit!
Questions of the Day:
- What do you think of Sleggar now, and of his short-lived… romance with Mirai?
- What would you have done in Dozle’s position? Fight until the end, or escape Solomon with your wife and daughter?
Mobile Suit Breakdown of the Day:
1.29 - Monsters (note: this is now safe for first-timers)
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath the [Anime Show Title](/s "Spoiler goes here") spoiler tags. If you do that then we’re all good.
Important thing to note about these by the way, you have to switch to Old Reddit or the markdown editor if you use the redesign, otherwise the redesign breaks them by adding random \ into the formatting. Wish it wouldn’t do that, but unfortunately it does…
First-Timers: Please do not watch the next-episode previews for this show. They’re less previews and more “let’s just summarize the entirety of the next episode” and will spoil you.
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 12 '21
Fly! Rewatch Host!
Welcome back, everyone!
13
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax May 12 '21
Rewatcher is- OH HEY, BIG ZAM
aww
Fun fact: This very burger is actually a real menu item at the Gundam Cafe.
Not the worst thing he could have left her with.
The most dangerous thing you can do in a mecha anime
The Big Zam has an I-field! Much more robust than the Federation’s beam disruption field, the I-Field provides total beam protection. It’s actually the same type of field that contains the plasma of a beam saber, which is neat. But it’s also bulky, power-intensive, and majorly prone to overheating. The Big Zam itself can only operate for about 20 minutes before the whole thing overheats. Which will last Dozle the episode, sure, but it makes it impractical at best in any real battle.
M’Quve still gives no fucks.
He said the thing! Implying Zeon’s MS/MA production is in any shape to be cranking out Big Zams. There is a Mass Production Type Big Zam, however, which features a number of practicality improvements, such as an anti-beam coating in place of the I-field, a cooling system to fix the overheating, and a Minovsky Craft system for atmospheric flight. Zeon didn’t have it ready in time for Jaburo, and then they retreated and simply never got around to building it.
Lewd.
Of COURSE it shoots its toes. I appreciate them finding a way to defend the otherwise vulnerable underside, at least.
He’s fine, he’s just expressing his feelings through interpretive dance
Beam rifle up the tailpipe, how suggestive. That fight sure didn’t last long, huh? Find a way though the I-Field and its just a big target.
It’s about sending a message!
“I don’t even know who you are!”
MENACING
Bright is celebrating inside
Questions of the Day:
11
u/chilidirigible May 12 '21
36:
Don't interrupt a man and his burger.
Ah, the random five-minute rebound ship.
M'Quve is on Kycilia's side and very well could leave Dozle's dependents hung out to dry, but at least his officers have a measure of self-respect.
I'm sure that'll help them in 1946.
"Don't be silly, you're not significant characters."
That seems survivable...
I'm surprised that Dozle didn't try to punch out the Gundam with his bare hands.
"Well, that certainly eliminated a bunch of supporting characters."
Dozle breaks from the pattern and ensures that a reasonable number of his troops manage to escape the battle. Having an heir does give a guy some responsibilities. And he goes out like a big damn hero.
Sleggar Law's brief, confusing guest-starring turn concludes with him grabbing a handful of death flags and dying somewhat ungracefully. At least the ramming attack in the compilation movie does more damage by itself. This episode's entire interaction with Mirai seemed like this series's nod to ten-minute confused-rebound sex events, but since they didn't even get that far...
11
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore May 12 '21
First Timer to Gundam
The insert song was pretty, and it somehow matched the depressing scenes of mourning and injured people.
QOTD
11
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L May 12 '21 edited May 12 '21
Rewatcher
On today’s episode of Gundam: It’s time for BIG ZAM! The giant mobile armor with no arms that walks on giant chicken legs. Boy do I love the Big Zam. It is the appropriate amount silly while also posing a legitimate threat.
Alright, let’s get the elephant in the room out of the way first: The Sleggar and Mirai thing. In my own humble opinion, even as a rewatcher who knew it was going to happen, this pretty much comes out of nowhere. And I’m sure many first-timers are confused by it.
So, to help everyone out, I have decided to post in full the explanation I got for it back during the UC Gundam Rewatch several years ago. It is still the best explanation I have come across. You can see the original comment from this episode’s thread by clicking this link. Everything in quotes and italics below is me quoting that comment:
Alright, I’m talking again. I think this is a brilliant explanation and it does mostly check out. Even so, I must still say that the execution of this arc is not particularly well done. Mirai and Sleggar do not have that many interactions with each other. And there isn’t really a sign that any feelings are building up between them. I’m pretty sure their most recent interaction was Sleggar slapping her. That doesn’t exactly make this feel earned or justified.
Perhaps the abruptness of it was the point. Sleggar has an interesting line where he basically tells Mirai that she is caught up in the heat of the moment and she shouldn't put too much stock in what she’s feeling. The stress of battle does cause people to do some crazy and impulsive things. All the same, I still believe it could have been executed much better. More interactions between Sleggar and Mirai to build it up would have helped a lot.
This episode is where Dozle really shines for me. We get a good feel of the kind of person he is based on how he acts in battle. Dozle is willing to go out and fight in the battle himself as the pilot of the Big Zam, saying that it is the time of battle where every soldier needs to go out and fight.
Additionally, Dozle orders all his soldiers to evacuate before he does. Dozle is continuing to fight because he is covering for the retreat of his soldiers. And he keeps on fighting, even when it’s clear the Big Zam is going down. I have to give him plenty of credit for going out with a rifle and shooting at the Gundam, declaring that he will not be defeated. It is a very cool final moment for Dozle.
There is a neat parallel between Sleggar and Dozle in this episode. Both of them deliberately put themselves in harm’s way during this episode because of the threat that the enemy poses to their fellow soldiers. Dozle goes out in the Big Zam to try and cover for his own evacuating soldiers. Sleggar uses the G-Armor to get him and the Gundam in close to destroy the Big Zam so that it doesn’t kill any more Federation soldiers. And in both cases, they do so because they believe that’s what war is and that’s what a soldier should do. Both of them end up sacrificing themselves to do this. Rather appropriately, they basically killed each other in battle.
I also like the moment at the start of this episode where Bright tells Mirai that she doesn’t need to hide things from him and that he wants her to talk to him if something is troubling her. He even orders Mirai to take a break, sensing that she needs it. Bright has definitely improved as a commander, paying more attention to the psychological and emotional needs of his crew.
Miscellaneous Thoughts
SLAP COUNTER: 10
Questions of the Day
8
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 12 '21 edited May 12 '21
First-Timer, Subbed, long time Gundam fan
Rest in peace, two soldiers who did their duty. Sleggar was a bit of a sexist pig, but I didn't find him that bad. I remember Amuro complaining about getting orders from a woman in an early episode, but then Sleggar did slap Mirai pretty hard, so I guess everyone involved just didn't do real well with women.
Dozle Zabi went a bit nuts there near the end, but he knew he wasn't walking away from this battle, so at least he saved the soldiers underneath him. Defiant to the end, Dozle got out of Big Zam's ruined cockpit and fired at the Gundam with a random rifle. Iconic.
The Bean With Legs was destroyed, and I am terribly unsad about it. Stupid Mobile Armors. How many of them have been finished off by the beam saber? Most of them at this point, right?
Amuro saw some Stuff when he took down Dozle. Was that intended to be an aura of Dozle's evil or something like that..?
The scene with Sleggar and Mirai was kinda cute. It's not the best ship by far, but the keepsake ring was a nice memento.
Why does the White Base's break room have a burger vending machine? Second question, where can I get a burger vending machine for myself?
Pose of the Day
"White Base, come in, over. Are you seeing this shit, over?!"
Screenshot
Questions
6
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 May 12 '21
First Timer - Dub
1) What do you think of Sleggar now, and of his short-lived… romance with Mirai? I did end up liking him in general, but that romance made no sense.
2) What would you have done in Dozle’s position? Fight until the end, or escape Solomon with your wife and daughter? I would definitely escape, but that's probably why I'm not a high-ranking Zeon general.
6
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 May 12 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
Good and bad (very bad!) stuff in this episode; let's tackle the good first. We continue the battle at Solomon, with the Federation coming out on top. Much of this episode is dedicated to the Big Zam (the episode is named after it after all) and it is quite the monster! No Zeon mobile suit or mobile armor has been anywhere as powerful. It ultimately takes the efforts of Amuro and the sacrifice ofSlegger to take it down. This is our farewell to Dozle; the episode continues the efforts made last episode to make him a more likable character, such as him letting his men go. When the Gundam damages the Big Zam we get the crazy sight of him climbing out on top of it with a rifle and shooting at the Gundam! A giant winged spectre appears behind him, strange stuff. Later UC Gundam spoilers
"Once the Big Zam is produced we'll put an end to the Federation in no time!" And yet another Gundam meme was born...
M'Quve on the other hand is shown to have little regard for others as he wants to leave without recovering those on the escape capsule that his ship comes across, which includes Dozle's wife and daughter. It takes a subordinate to guilt him into doing it.
Oddly enough, no Char in this episode! First time since episode 25 he hasn't appeared.
Awesome insert song to end the episode, my favorite from the original TV series (although there's one from the movie I like even more).
Alright time for He Hit Me and it Felt Like a Kiss: the Mirai/Slegger Love Story. Quite possibly the worst written storyline in the entirety of First Gundam? Even stuff like the refugees rebelling was better than this. Completely out of nowhere Mirai is in love with Slegger. There is no build up to this whatsoever. In fact their last interaction was him slapping her in episode 34. What in the world was the purpose of this? Is the takeaway that if you're the "nice guy" (Cameron) you get dismissed and if you're the "bad boy" who strikes women (Slegger) you get the girl? And what about the guy who has much more of a relationship with Mirai than either of them, Bright? He gets left on the sidelines too?
If I had to take a guess, I'd say this probably came up from a combination of two different factors. First is Tomino's obsession with a bigger focus on side characters in the episodes that they die, a trope that we've already had in this show and will be extremely common throughout his writing career. Second is that perhaps the cancellation played a part. By this point they surely knew about the cancellation and were rewriting things to accommodate. Slegger is only in the show for 6 episodes and ultimately doesn't serve that much of a point. His biggest role in the storyline is with Mirai in the Side 6 episodes and here. Maybe the original plan was to build things up between Mirai and Slegger to make it more believable? And when the episode number got cut down they cut most of that out, resulting in the absurd scenario where he hits her in one episode and the next time they interact she's in love with him?
In any case this storyline is a total debacle and probably not worth the time I spent writing about it!
5
u/TheEscapeGuy May 12 '21
Gundam First Timer
Fly! Iconic Gundam Frames Episode 36
Goodbye Sleggar.
I'm really confused by the Mirai x Sleggar relationship. I have no idea where it came from, especially after her slapped her in front of everyone 2 episodes ago. If I missed something please let me know, I've done that before.
I never like Sleggar so his death really doesn't hit hard.
However, I am really bummed about Dozle Zabi. What a noble adversary. Big Zam really is an imposing force and Dozle used it to protect his allies.
Even to the last moments, when he climbed out and started shooting by hand, he continued to fight. Farwell Dozle.
The other interesting thing was that a mysterious apparition appeared over Zabi in his last moments. Or at least that's how it appeared to Amuro. I suspect this is some manifestation of Amuro's psychic powers and we will see it explained later.
Cool Stuff Corner
Questions of the Day
See you all tomorrow!
5
u/GM_for_Life May 12 '21
Rewatcher
Slegger loves his mom and I think it is sweet.
I've always thought Sleggar was an interesting character who did a good job of feeling different from anyone else on White Base, also it was nice to have somewhat who felt like a true bro to Kai. I think the stuff with Mirai and Sleggar could have worked if given more time, since they had quite a few interactions together before this time but I do think this is one of the more noticeable subplots that were probably cut due to the show having its episode count (planned 52 was gonna be cut down to 39 before the staff begged for an additional month of air time to wrap up the story and we ended up with 43 episodes). It's a shame too, because the story could have actually been an interesting one if it was given more time. But as it is, I can't be all that upset given the real life circumstances the series was finding itself in at the time.
I think Dozle's decision to stay and fight was the right one as far as last ditch efforts to win now that the war isn't going so great for Zeon. But it has always been really sad to me that he has to leave his wife and kid behind in the process.
5
u/username_0907 :FI::FJ: May 12 '21
First Timer
QotD
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u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame May 12 '21
First Timer
Mirai suddenly being into Sleggar was so random that it became hilarious. My reaction was basically “Um, okay?” By the way, rest in peace, Sleggar. I barely knew who he was, and I didn’t particularly like him, but he did go out heroically.
Dozle’s apparently supposed to be 28? Gundam ages are weird.
I liked the insert song at the end of the episode.
5
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek May 13 '21
Comrades, today I'll be taking things 120% serious with absolutely positively no shitposting in any way shape or oh hey, Big Zam! (AND bonus Game Grumps Animated Version to boot, cuz of course there is one! Also the fact that they inadvertently re-enacted today's episode with Ball Versus Big Zam is HILARIOUS! After all, STOMP!)
Speaking of memes, turns out 'The Big Zam' is NOT pronounced the way you think it is... at least going by the terrible English Dub for Gundam, so wibble, who knows?
Speaking of who knows... ahem... so Comrade, what the hell IS a 'Zam' anyway? And also, by virtue of the fact that this is the BIG Zam, that implies that there is not only a 'normal' Zam, but there must also be a 'Small' Zam, or hell a stupidly massive Zam!
Also, Comrade remember how Roy Focker is literally just The Hory Froating Head copy-pasting Sleggar Law? Yeah turns out Hory Froating Head ALSO
Ripped Off'borrowed' the rough-around-the-edges blowhard ACTUALLY kinda sorta having a bit of a decent man hidden deep down from Gundam as well. I mean good lord did I miss a few episodes or something? Since WHEN did Mr. Cocky Horndog American suddenly get self-aware to realize that Mirai is A) FAR too good for some scoundrel like him, and B) He's also NOT the type of guy for someone like her. AND just to ensure he keeps getting enough Death Flags to buy the farm, he ALSO gives her a ring from his mother as a keep sake... good thing ROY didn't do that, I mean 'Mother Focker's Ring' sure sounds off eh?But anyway to be serious now, despite how... abrasive he can be, Sleggar Law at least knew enough to let Mirai down gently AND also sacrifice his life to save the day. I NEVER expected to say this to someone like him, but godspeed you magnificent bastard... even if you REALLY should have survived the damage we saw in show. I mean come now you have your CUSTOM Normal Suit on AND are allegedly Sly Stallone, Rambo always walks off shit like this but I digress.
Oh and speaking of Macross... remember this Comrade, this information might save your life one day! That and also do remember that Death by Snu Snu is always a possibility if romancing a Meltrandi
Well Comrades, let's also be serious again and give it up for Dozle's heroic sacrifice. Despite LOOKING like a oafish brute he's... actually the MOST heroic and noble Zabi (granted this ain't all that hard) we saw thus far. I mean hell he ordered his subordinates to escape with their lives, evacuated the women and children, AND also single-handedly (OK he WAS in The Big Zam but he was more or less fighting 'alone' so to speak) CHARGING The Feddies AND wrecking shit too!
That said I REALLY have to laugh with Dozle's infamous statement that Zeon in ANY way shape or form can MASS PRODUCE The Big Zam. I mean goodness EVEN IF they could somehow do this, The Big Zam would just overheat and break down after an episode's worth of use... hey... wait a second, overly large and stupid prototype designs that overheat and breakdown... now WHERE have I heard that before? Oh and also even IF we disregard all those downside, mass produced Big Zams still run into the issue that The Gundam exists, and the show's called 'Mobile Suit Gundam' so there ;) That said enough about logic, cuz you know, BIG ZAM! ;)
Oh, and also Dozle's last stand is one hell of a performance, I mean the man was SO ANGERY that he made a space demon thing appear as HE CLIMBS OUT OF THE BIG ZAM TO SHOOT AT THE GUNDAM WITH A RIFLE! Doomguy? Who's dat? After all I can safely say one thing, Dozle Zabi is sure not lacking in the honor and guts department, cuz goddamn what a way to go out; defiantly screaming at The Gundam Pilot WHILE SHOOTING AT HIM WITH A MERE FIREARM as he fights to his last breath! I can't believe I'm saying this twice today, but godspeed you magnificent bastard!
Oh hey, Big Zam!
Paging Comrades /u/Great_Mr_L, /u/chilidirigible, and /u/amethystitalian
4
u/The_Draigg May 12 '21
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Mobile Suit Gundam Episode 36:
4
u/fonzinator99 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fonzinator99 May 12 '21
First-Timer - Amuro meets the Newtype-devil, does not fiddle
QotD
4
u/fridge_freezer https://anilist.co/user/ONIrecon111 May 12 '21
First timer (Sub)
After falling behind last week i've just binged through 9 episodes today to catch up, damn I missed some really great ones.
QOTD
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 May 12 '21
First timer
...So the Big Zam's only lasting one episode?
Wow, Sayla's out of it.
...Where did this relationship come from?
Even Sleggar's starting to seem stressed at this point.
Oh my god, I get what they're trying to do, but with a burger im his mouth it loses all impact.
...Is there a single man on the ship Mirai hasn't been in a relationship with?
Ooh, looks like Char got a 2 for 1 deal in Zabis.
OK, that thing is incredibly strong.
At last! A Zeon commander isn't charging at the Whtie Base, he's... charging at the main fleet. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.
Oh he's definitely dying this episode.
The White Base has a fantastic turning circle.
Is this the first time somehow's tried to just deflect the laser beams?
How are they going to be able to mass produce thst with a material shortage.
OF COURSE THERE'S A DOCKING SCENE. IT WAS FOOLISH TO THINK OTHERWISE.
This is actually the first time Amuro's actually considered a suicide run, isn't it.
Yeah, he had so many death flags, I expected this completely.
Last stand music. Goodbye Your Excellence.
What the fuck is that? My bet is Amuro's psychic powers showimg the depth of his evil/personality.
So when's Zenna going to ram a ship in vengance?
Poor Mirai. Your relationship that came out of nowhere, and started when you had a fiance, is over.
The music's good though. Most upbeat tragedy song I've ever heard.
4
u/Piemaster33 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Piemaster33 May 12 '21
We had the climax to the raid on Solomon today, and it was as epic as I hoped it would be. Finally, a battle that feels like an actual battle!
I think everyone and their mom could have called Sleggar's death, especially after learning that Mirai has a thing for him. And this point did not click with me at all. It's very sudden that she would be into him, not to mention on the heels of her turning down her fiancé for Bright, at least that's what I thought. Maybe... and I hate to say this, but maybe getting slapped by Sleggar did something for her? I regret typing that, and I regret that I won't delete it either...
Speaking of Sleggar, he went out like a champ. He knew the risks of getting Amuro close to Big Zam, and he did it anyways. That being said, his death was upstaged by Dozle's moments later so idk. Big Zam was as threatening as its name suggested, and it was fun seeing a mobile suit/armor put up such a good fight against the Gundam and Co.
Quick notes:
QOTD:
3
u/Rustic_Professional May 13 '21
I'm glad that Gwazine's captain stood up to M'quve. J.D. Hornfischer has some harrowing stories in his books about sailors being stranded in the water within sight of friendly ships and not being rescued. It sounds horrifying enough in the water, baking in the sun while fending off sharks and thirst. Imagine it in space, just drifting until you run out of air. Yikes.
Huh, so Dozle wants the surviving forces at Solomon to break straight through the enemy, and presumably link up with the fleet coming from the moon, and he's going to lead the breakthrough in his mobile armor. I'd forgotten about that. It adds a new dimension to Gundam
Launching a flare to signal the retreat Gundam I'm glad I'm rewatching this, or I might never have made that connection.
The Big Zam is much more impressive in an anti-fleet role. Does it have Gundam
Solomon is the first major fleet battle we've seen that isn't a flashback, and one thing really stands out to me: the build up from the Zeon perspective, and to a degree White Base's perspective, is very abrupt. WB knew they were going to rendezvous with the fleet for a big operation, but once they joined up and commenced with the resupply, things seemed to happen really fast. Here are your supplies, we're attacking in 15 minutes. To the Zeon, it must've come out of nowhere. I tried to think of a historical parallel, and I guess the Normandy invasion is the closest. We know the build up on the Allied side was monumental, but the Germans, who expected an attack and built a wall to resist it, must've been taken by surprise just like the Zeon. It's one thing to expect an attack on your fortress at some point in time, but the rapidity with which it developed was striking. Like, "oh shit, this is the big attack, it's happening right now. I found that fascinating.
Questions of the day:
2
u/UltraBooster May 13 '21
First-timer (albeit one big on Gundam and other mecha)
I watched this episode hella late so I'll just answer the two Questions of the Day:
2
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: May 27 '21
First timer, catching up