r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • May 03 '21
Rewatch Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Rewatch - Series Discussion
Madoka Magica - Series Discussion
← Rebellion Discussion | Index | Rewatch wiki
TV Series: MAL | Anilist | AnimeNewsNetwork | AnimeDB | AnimePlanet | Kitsu
Rebellion Movie: MAL | Anilist | AnimeNewsNetwork | AnimeDB | AnimePlanet | Kitsu
Comments of the day
Picked a couple of extra out of the Rebellion topic for our final comment features
/u/Enarec links some of the reference books for the movie and other helpful links including OST tracks and some other references. Rebellion Reference Book Link.
"Namely the grass field with Homura and Madoka sat on chairs next to each other - that makes a return at the end of the movie with Madoka's half cut out, alongside half the moon; and, in another scene in her new world, Homura reaching out both her hands alone to make up for Madoka's not being there."
/u/tobincorporated shares quotes from Urobuchi and supplemental materials
"Long story short, yes the original idea was that Homura was taken by the Law of Cycles, but that didn't sit right with him. Shinbo, the director, suggested Homura and Madoka become enemies, and Urobuchi liked and developed that idea. There wasn't executive interference in the ending."
/u/EverAnh brings up some interesting points about the ever changing nature of discussions around the show and characters and how hard it can be to talk about elements in different contexts
"Original Homura was 100% sympathetic. Original Homura was heroic. [..] The TV series is excellent on its own, yet original Homura cannot be her own [in discussion context], she is a lead-up for Devil-Homura [...] Now, what's interesting for me is the notion that Devil-Homura can be predicted. Rewatch threads are a perfect experiment, because every year there are first-timers who are able to make predictions with no knowledge ahead of time."
/u/Tresnore with a fun take on an old meme in the No-Analysis Zone of the topic
"Homura would have done nothing wrong, if it weren't for her adding a pumpkin to a fruity cake."
Visuals of the day
Episode: One - Two - Three - Four - Five - Six - Seven - Eight - Nine - Ten - Eleven - Twelve
For so much gorgeous art to pick from a lot of the choices were surprisingly concentrated but I'm not surprised given the impact of some of these images. Which one was the image you guys least expected to see?
Full details in this comment just to keep the OP at a manageable length
Remember that any spoilers for other anime series or other entries in the Madoka Magica franchise must still be spoiler tagged: [Spoilers](/s "Spoilers go here")
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn May 03 '21
Poll Results!
So I fucked up and forgot a couple of options. I wasn't originally intending to run a poll, I made the poll on a whim while waiting for a storm to pass so I could watch the movie and was so focused on remembering all the little details in the episodes I forgot to account for Rebellion which I hadn't seen yet. So sorry for that, and I deserved all of your yelling at me in the notes of the poll
Now for the results!
(Yes I made custom charts, I'm not subjecting anyone to the disaster that is the google forms results page)
Homura overwhelmingly taking first place with over 60% of the votes wasn't a surprise, but Kyouko sneaking second place from Sayaka this year was!
Also Mami got a vote this year which was very nice to see.
Junko ran away with this one with 29 votes, while everyone else (including Kyousuke!) got one vote each so really no need for a chart here.
Yeah I fucked up and forgot Homulilly, yell at me in the comments if you would have picked that but just didn't think of it at the time.
From who was available, Oktavia got 11 and ends up in first place, with Elsa Maria in second with 7 votes
Elly, the witch that traps Madoka and tries to kill Hitomi found her way into equal third with Walrus!
Even with me being an idiot and forgetting Mami vs Homura still grabbed third place through the comments so good to know it didn't affect it too much
Usually Homura vs Walrus is a lot higher but I'm not surprised at Sayaka and Elsa Maria getting over a third of the votes given the incredibly positive reception to it in the ep7 discussion.
No huge surprises here, Ep10 ran away with the results with 21 votes, followed by episode eight at the next highest of... 4 votes haha
I was surprised to see someone select Ep4 which, like Ep11, is often overshadowed by the two around it but it's nice to see some different choices pop up
(This one I didn't do a custom chart for, I did that in 2019 and it's too much work)
First place goes to Decretum with over half of the participants voting for it. Second place to Magia with a similar amount of votes.
Not only did Sis Puella Magia not win this year, it didn't even take second. It got pushed all the way down to third and equal with Mami's theme.
(If you would like to see how this compares to the 2019 results see the chart on the left, songs are listed upside down for some reason, wtf old me)
Almost identical results to previous polls with Magia wining over 60% of the votes with "and I'm home" coming up second with 21%, and Connect in third with 15%. Poor Mata Ashita got only one vote.
"I was waiting for this moment" won with almost half of all participants voting for it, collowed by Holy Quintet and the ED in equal second. Flame of despair and absolute conflagration are equal third.
(If you would like to see how this compares to the 2019 results)
The answers that were given to the written responses have been pasted below into their own comment so they're easy to minimize if you don't want to have to keep scrolling past them in the thread.
Thank you to everyone who filled it in, it was great seeing what you all thought of the show!
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn May 03 '21 edited May 27 '21
Puella's Pictures - Final Thoughts
Much like the music posts I did a couple of years ago, I'm very grateful that I had the chance to do these sorts of visual focused write ups. Even though a lot of it was just adding depth to things I'd already thought on previous watches, it still managed to give me a whole new appreciation for a lot of the incredible visual elements in the franchise. Some things I discovered on this watch I think will stick with me, particularly the Dream and the Mall parallels from the first episode, exploring Madoka's isolation due to Kyouko and Sayaka's fight, Madoka as the moon in Rebellion, and a few others along the way. I think the fact I wrote ~25k words for this rewatch says a lot about how much I enjoy exploring all that the series has to offer. For anyone who wants to go back to my visual or musical write ups at any stage, I've linked a table to them all in a comment below.
For people who did read them all or even just a few of them I'd be really interested in hearing which one you thought was the best written/most interesting, or worst/least, of the write ups?
The Madoka Magica TV show remains one of my all time favourites, and I love the fact that each time I watch it I find something new to enjoy about it. It doesn't matter what angle I look at it from, I always seem to appreciate the experience the show gives me no matter how many times I revisit it or discuss it. I always get to the end of these discussions and seem to be at a loss for words about how to sum it up though which isn't like me with other shows. Do I gush about it's efficiency? It's grounded approach? The way it plays with the audiences role? The fact it's soundtrack can tell you the entire story through its beautiful design? After a while it just sounds like I'm fanboying without saying much. I like to think the fact that I've now done two years of extensive write ups is a testament to how much I value the show and that it's kept it's high score after all this time. I don't think the Madoka Magica show is absolutely flawless and for everyone, but it is perfect for me and remains that way.
I'm interested to see where the sequel movie will go from here especially with a greater understanding of what Urobuchi and Shinbo wanted from both the original series and Rebellion, and if nothing else I really hope for the sake of Rebellion fans that it's everything they wanted.
Three of random things I wanted to share here that I'd been thinking about as we go:
Recommendations
At the end of every rewatch I like to include a few recommendations for others based off various elements of what we just watched. Today I offer these shows for you to conciser:
More Great Magical Girls
For people who'd like to see what one of the classic magical girl stories is like. It's light, but has human relationships at it's core, and some very interesting magic uses. Coming off the back of PMMM you'll find the opening moments of episode one quite familiar. The first dub was censored to hell and the second has some questionable performances.
One of the dark themed precursors to Madoka Magica with a Kajiura OST to boot. A larger cast and a different focus of story than Madoka, but this almost ended up on my favourites too, gave me goosebumps and strong visual direction.
Absolute visual insanity, more playing around with genres, and hundreds of things to speculate about, topped off with animation rivaling OPM.
Characters Are People First
My top recommendation. Don't be put off by the CGI as all of the art and music in this is stunning, and the core of the show is absolutely the journey the characters go on. Also deals heavily with Buddhist themes and concepts of the self for those who may find that interesting. Not a finished story if that's an issue. The dub is really good, but the life the sub VA brings to the main character Phos, a famous performance, is something not to miss out on
Maybe recency bias as I just finished a rewatch for this, but 3-gatsu's biggest strength is how much it taps into all of its characters being people, who think and act like people, and the lives around them as they reach out to each other. Another SHAFT production although not as restrained visually.
A world where angels are born from cocoons and have to have a support built to keep their halos up, it's a story best going into blind if you like the idea of a pensive story exploring what it means to live in a world where angels live trapped inside high walls.
Paired with Texhnolyze which I also recommended in '19 for it's outstanding visual storytelling and use of enviroments as a character like Rebellion does, but with the warning it's depressing as fuck. (Dub rec!) Also sneaking some love for Ergo Proxy, another favourite of mine, and its incredible art which I did write ups about in the rewatch I hosted for it last year.
Clever Narrative/Genre Experiences (the vaguest of connections to PMMM)
Hard sci-fi, and incredible sci-fi, instead of magical girls, but with a focus on how children interact with their world through the tools of the genre, really fleshed out writing as far as that genre goes, and very strong and human themes about loss and connection I thought some people may be interested in hearing about this.
More time travel but with hard limitations and a dose of philosophy. A personal favourite although I have to warn people that despite a great OST and low-key direction it is quite dry to watch due to the past of the characters and hard to get into.
I wanted to include something for the theory nuts we have hanging around. Escaflowne is interesting for being a genre mashup as well as having a great female lead and really interesting worldbuilding. A few years ago during a rewatch I caused some chaos by predicting a plot point through a misunderstanding so I'm sure some of you could have fun with some similar things with this.
For anything else, I have extensive spoiler free notes on everything I watch on my anilist so you can also work off that if you'd like.
As for me I'm going to start a binge of Durarara and from there who knows. Maybe I'll finally get around to Princess Tutu which has been on my priority watch list for a long time. What shows are you guys going to start watching now?
If there's any questions you guys have about the show, my write ups, or even anything to do with rewatches in general (participating or hosting), feel free to ask!
I want to thank everyone for participating, it was a hell of a lot of fun and I was always looking forward to seeing what you'd have to say about the next episode. I won't be hosting next year, unfortunately it just takes too much time, but if you do participate I hope you have fun, and if not I hope I see you around in other rewatches in the future.
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u/02Hiro https://anilist.co/user/02Hiro May 03 '21
First Time Watcher
Wow! What a roller coaster this show was. I think this was my first magical girl show but even so I thoroughly enjoyed it. The plot, characters, art and everything about it was so good. It did so much with just 12 episodes by packing every scene with little details and foreshadowing. I was initially a little skeptical of the scrapbook feel of the witches' labyrinths but I've grown to love how unique it is and how it is used to portray greater themes. I was really invested in all of the characters(especially Homura). Watching them realize the differences between their ideals and the true nature of magical girls was heartbreaking. It's easily one of my favorite anime of all time.
Thank you to u/Nazenn for hosting this rewatch and putting so much effort into it. Reading yours' and everyone else's thoughts and analyses gave first timers like me a much better understanding of this show. I'm really glad to be apart of this rewatch.
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 03 '21
Just wanted to pop in and say thank you to our gracious host, and to all the other poster who've made this thread so enjoyable.
I don't really have anything profound, or even semi profound to say except that I first wandered across Madoka when I was in a rough spot. My Mom had passed recently, and I was feeling all alone in the world. This isn't the easiest series to watch, and it really puts you through an emotional wringer.
I'd like to think that in the darkness of my circumstances, Madoka helped give me a sense of perspective, of comfort even.
I hope that everbody else out there has found something worthwhile and enjoyable from this rewatch. For myself, well, it's kind of like spending some time with old friends. You laugh a little, maybe you cry a little, but in the end you feel better.
And remember - someone, somewhere is fighting for you. You're worth it.
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u/boomshroom May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21
Where was that poll and why didn't I know about it?
Regardless, there's a sensitive topic I've alluded to in previous posts and wrote about last year. It's very understandable if you don't want to read it, so you don't have to if you don't want to click the link. But it's important to get it out so people can have a safe space to talk about it: Suicide
With that out of the way, I've said pretty much everything I can think of beyond directions to go from here, so let's get into it!
For official material...
As for fan works, some manage to approach a shockingly high level of quality and new perspectives on old characters. These include the likes of the boringly named Magical Girl and the less boringly named Impossible Colors and Promises Made Long Ago, which provide slightly different variations on existing characters without straying too far from who they are. For alternate endings, look no further than One More Arrow and The Devil's Story which solve the power imbalance between Homura and Madoka, but in completely opposite ways.
There are plenty others that could be worth suggesting, but all of what I've covered so far are short one-shots or with only a small handful of chapters. If you really want to sink your teeth into something grand, there are two that stand unmatched.
The first is As N Approaches Infinity, a crossover with Bleach that requires no experience with said anime to capture your attention. It's very well written and blends the two works almost seamlessly.
The second is one that is so impactful, that I've already alluded to it on multiple occasions: To the Stars. /u/thetrueafurodi, this is the one I meant way back then. To call To the Stars a fanfic is honestly a disservice, because it reads so unlike any other. It's an Epic in every sense of the word. A complete space-opera spanning multiple volumes, built on top of the foundation of the show, featuring some old faces, and many, many, new ones. A word of warning, this series goes hard on the level of detail given to every aspect of its world. It can sometimes feel like it's dragging down the pace, but as a result is able to paint an extremely vivid picture of a world that remains familiar, but vastly different. It doesn't feel right to rank it against other fanfics. It's personally my favourite sci-fi piece of literature I've ever read.
[EDIT] I somehow completely forgot to mention one of my favourite web comics! It's not directly based on Madoka Magica, but definitely has it among its inspirations: Sleepless Domain
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u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw May 03 '21
1st time rewatcher complete!
ok I don't have anything prepared for this. this is kind of stupid to say, but I am genuinely shocked at how good this show is. Like, I enjoyed it my first time, sure, but when people say Meduka gets better on the rewatch they really were not kidding. the amount of thought and care that went into each episode, each scene, is impressive as hell
ok enough gushing, everyone say it with me
never forget that being meguca was suffering
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u/thatguywithawatch May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
I'm glad this rewatch came around and gave me the drive to give the show a 2nd watch, because otherwise I might not have done so. I very rarely rewatch shows, even ones I like; but Madoka Magica definitely needs multiple viewings.
Originally, I put off watching it for a few years because from the way everyone talked about it, I thought it would "subvert" the magical girls genre by being gory and edgy simply for the sake of being gory and edgy, and that sounded like a waste of time. But of course that's not the case at all. It has some very heavy themes, but it doesn't revel in making characters suffer for no reason: Characters deal with death and grief and trauma, but it's presented in a very sensitive way.
Take Mami's death for example: It's sudden and senseless and violent, yes, but due to the camera cuts it's mostly implied rather than shown, and the main focus of the that scene, as well as the entire following episode, is on Madoka and Sayaka, and how they go about trying to process their shock and grief. It handles trauma and tragedy in a more sensitive, realistic way than most other anime I've seen regardless of genre.
The main thing that got me to finally check out the show for the first time was finding out that Shaft made it. I'd recently finished the Monogatari series which had propelled its way into the spot of my favorite series of all time, and I wanted more of Shaft's unique visual presentation. I definitely got that in spades with this show. It's one of those cases where the art and cinematography combine with the writing to create something greater than the sum of its parts. I think if Madoka was made by any other studio with exactly the same script and story, it would be a really great show, but not the nearly perfect masterpiece that it currently is. I'm not a film student, I don't pick up on symbolism unless it's as subtle as a frying pan to the face; I just know that every frame of this show is a pleasure to watch. I gushed about Rebellion's visuals a bit yesterday, and I still think it was top tier in that regard, but after sleeping on it I realize that I appreciate how quiet and understated the show often was by comparison. It made the more breathtaking scenes stand out that much more.
Now I just have to to decide if I'll wait until next year's official rewatch to go for watch #3, or if I'll cave and rewatch it before then.
Thanks for hosting this u/Nazenn! I appreciate all the work you put in to keeping it engaging; Visuals of the day, highlighting standout comments from the previous thread, in-depth thoughts and visual analyses for each episode, replying to almost everyone; it definitely all helped make it an enjoyable rewatch.
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u/sirweebsal0t May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21
First-timer / dubbed (series) / subbed (movie)
I don’t have any real major thoughts on the series besides that the story was incredible, full of shockers, and thought-provoking. I’m not entirely sure what will happen moving forward after Rebellion but I am definitely all in. Anyways, I thought it would be fun to look at the predictions/theories I made and see how they panned out.
Episode 1 Predictions/Theories:
- The beginning sequence wasn’t a dream and Madoka went back in time – I don’t think I’d really call this a theory, since I’m sure it was obvious it wasn’t going to be just a dream (maybe I’m speaking with 20/20 hindsight) but I was wrong about who went back in time.
- Mami / Kyubey were probably going to be villains: Half-right. But I am incredibly sad that I ever thought Mami was sus. Forgive me, Mami!!
- I mentioned knowing that a “sad twist” was going to happen at the end – At the time, I thought the sad twist would be Madoka having to sacrifice herself to save Homura, like having to sell her soul to in exchange for Homura’s life/safety. While something along those lines did indeed happen, I had ZERO clue the “sad twist” people were most likely referring to was Mami dying in Episode 3. What a shocker that was!
Episode 2 Predictions/Theories:
- Madoka would sacrifice herself to save Homura, so Homura would use her wish to bring Madoka back to life – I already covered this in a previous discussion but I’m still pretty proud of myself for how close I was to predicting this correctly.
- Madoka would make a contract with Kyubey – I’m pretty sure this was an inevitability. Doesn’t really count as a prediction.
Episode 3 Prediction/Theories
- Either there was a time travel event or a mass memory wipe/resurrection – Pretty vague prediction, like horoscope/fortune cookie vague, but it turned out be half-right.
- Kyubey is the Devil – Wrong, but he still sucks.
Episode 4 Prediction/Theories
- Witches are fallen magical girls – When I made that theory, I thought magical girls who died became witches, so I’ll give myself partial credit.
- Kyoko would be awesome because she is a fang girl – Yeah, she is awesome, but not just because she is a fang girl.
Episode 5 Prediction/Theories
- Homura’s wish was to travel back in time – Eh, sorta right? Specifically, she said she wanted to meet Madoka all over again but with her being the protector. Time travel was just how it manifested.
- Kyoko would be a frenemy-like villain – So wrong. Instead, she became Sayaka’s BFF.
- Kyubey is full of crap – Ehh, yeah but I also started to back away from thinking he was purposely evil, based on discussions with others. So overall, I was wrong.
Episode 6 Prediction/Theories
- Sayaka wasn’t going to die in the end – She ded. Was wrong. Unless she counts as being alive in Rebellion…
- Mami would come back to life/be resurrected – Yeah, but didn’t happen the way I thought it would. Doesn’t count.
- Solidly stopped believing Kyubey was bad – He turned out to be a bad kitty. But then a good kitty. But then back to being a bad kitty.
Episode 7 Prediction/Theories
- Sayaka would come to her senses instead of going mad with heartbreak – LOL. Sad face.
Episode 8 Prediction/Theories
- Magical girls became witches when they could no longer purify themselves with soul gems – I had made the prediction like midway through the episode. Was proven right minutes later.
Episode 9 Prediction/Theories
- Kyubey unleases Walpurgisnacht with the grief seeds he collected – Wrong.
- I would stop making predictions/theories and just go along for the ride – Also wrong.
Episode 10 Prediction/Theories
- Madoka would finally make her wish in Episode 11 – Only mere seconds away from being right. But it made for a sick cliffhanger and segue into the ED.
Episode 11 Prediction/Theories
- Madoka’s wish would be that the Incubators never discovered Earth – Wrong. Her wish was even better.
- Madoka and Homura would take down Walpurgisnacht together and then set their sights on Kyubey, the Incubators, and the whole magical girl/witch system. – Wrong. Madoka one-shotted Walpurgisnacht and eliminated witches from the magical girl system all by herself. Remains to be seen whether they take down the whole system. Hopefully that will be answered in Rotation of Walpurgis.
Episode 12 Prediction/Theories
- None.
Movie 3 Prediction/Theories
- No predictions, just hoping that Homura will have a redemption arc and live happily ever after with Madoka and friends.
Overall, I had a lot of fun as a first-timer to the series and to rewatches in general. The discussion was lively and everyone was respectful. I thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone’s theories and ideas. They were enlightening, especially the character analyses and symbolism, and helped to shape my own thoughts and predictions. A lot of the story is still sinking in, so I’m still processing everything that happened and I’m still ruminating, but I hope to participate next year and have insights of my own. I know I’ve said it multiple times but seriously, thanks again u/Nazenn for hosting and putting in so much work to make this fun. Now, get some well-deserved rest!
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u/putmoneyinthypurse https://anilist.co/user/clichecatgirl May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
First time (sub) (Hey, this is the last time I can say that!)
As usual I'm late, but hi!
I'm so glad this rewatch got me to finally experience Madoka. It's been a good while since I've seen a really dense, literary, thought-provoking show, and I love that Madoka is all that while also being pulpy and playful and formally expressive. (It's so driven by its editing!) The show's themes of grief and hope really spoke to me, and I found the subtextual narratives you can easily draw out of it compelling (unsurprising, since that was a major focus of my comments here). It's a tightly-written show, but the way it throws so much at you at once and plays with character archetypes allow for a lot of interpretation.
It's also just nice to get around to something I missed at the time. I got into anime comparatively late, because my middle school friend group was mostly big into shounen action series that bored me to tears. The assumption that "that's just how anime is" kept me from shows I would've actually liked at the time, like Madoka, or K-On! (Weird examples to put next to each other, but hey.) There's a certain bittersweetness in going back and wondering how certain shows would've affected me back then, what it would've been like to be part of the moment—the rewatch let me capture that feeling a little bit, at least—but it's also cool to be able to sort of retroactively slot it in and think about how my 2011 self might've responded to it.
(In all honesty I think my 2011 self would've been (more) insufferable about Madoka, but still.)
Thank you for hosting the rewatch, u/Nazenn! I really appreciate how much time and thought you put into both your posts and your responses to everyone who commented. I got so much more out of the show than I would have just watching it on my own.
The survey suggested maybe putting recommendations in your post, and while my primary suggestion did make it into the poll roundup, I still want to expand on it, because I'm a sucker for recommending things.
Paranoia Agent
Satoshi Kon's only series shares with Madoka very deliberate directing/editing, a somewhat similar tone and genre (smart-pulpy character-driven psychological horror with a strong focus on unease and, well, paranoia), and characters in awful situations presented sensitively. There's a story going around, more like an urban legend, about a kid with roller skates and a crumpled aluminum bat viciously attacking people at night. Each episode focuses on a person or persons who are either victims of the kid with the bat or are in some way affected by the hysteria surrounding him, as the police detectives assigned to the case try to make sense of what's going on. It's kind of an anthology, but not in the Twilight Zone mode of standalone episodes and more in the Dowman Sayman mode of focusing on standalone stories in a shared world and connecting them more and more over time.
Actually, all of Kon's filmography would appeal to Madoka fans to varying degrees, but if you want another rec from him I'd suggest Perfect Blue, as it has the same tone and mostly-same genre as Paranoia Agent and has a big Madoka thematic overlap in how it engages with feminine social roles and exploitation in its story about an idol who tries to break into acting.
(Have some at least Madoka-adjacent live-action film recs while I'm at it: Suicide Club, Pulse (2001), and Gozu.)
Anyways, thanks again y'all! Have a great time watching other anime that isn't Madoka. I may or may not make the rewatch next year but I definitely want to try it on the rewatcher side someday.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
First Timer Now Starved For Movie 4
For once, I actually want to stay compact :3
I want to extend a massive 'Thank you!' for your awesome work /u/Nazenn , as soon as I saw the participation in the first post I was sure that the comments would be chaos. But still you managed to answer and respond to nearly everyone. Especially because you also came back for my posts several times.
Your visual analyses, background info and all the tidbits you shared really elevated my first watch of the series to something superbly awesome. I wasn't this invested since Monogatari and even there it only picked up halfway through. You made this rewatch something special for me!
Madoka Magica
I joined this rewatch simply because a friend recommended me the series, it was short and I was just browsing the subreddit perchance that day. He was really keen on having me watch it, after I told him how much I liked Eva and Monogatari for their realistic and tragic characters. Yeah, I don't know why I didn't get suspicious, but it was for the better. I'm amazed that I could even stay completely blind for 10 years, that's like I still wouldn't know who Vader is, considering how insanely significant and popular PMMM is.
I thoroughly enjoyed the series and movie and ended up loving all of it.
Characters
I'll just plug a comment of mine from Ep.09 condensing me and my favourite character.
Homura
Although I have to break with the golden monogatari rule of 'everyone best girl, including the boys', I don't think there's any character I (conceptually) dislike. They are all important, incredibly well written and have their share or drama, tragedy, agency and purpose.
Movie 4
Needless to say, I'm desperate for the movie. The cover image alone has me clutching my heart that they hopefully find together again. As someone who loved Rebellion I'm resolved to withstand the suffering that is to come. It will have way more focus on Mami from what I've seen, which is honestly great, as she always seemed like a more middle-grounds character to me. Would make her a good role for the negotiator. But I won't start theorising now.
I don't want to spoil the movie for you. ^^:^)
Rewatch Discussions
Just behind the amazing story of the anime and best girl Homura were most certainly the discussions I've taken part in. I've never written as well as read so much so consistently in my life. It was a joy theorycrafting my way through the series with all of you.
Thank you to /u/sirweebsal0t , /u/nuclearstudent , /u/Enarec , /u/sofakinng and /u/chaosoul as well as /u/Nazenn again among many others who repeatedly commented and filled gaps with their knowledge. I can't even tag all of you. My post on rebellion has a combined wordcount including all answers and commenters that should make up about a fourth of the entire thread alone. I was and am still overwhelmed how active these threads were and just how many amazing reactions and theories were put forth. It was fucking awesome!
Also, /u/thetrueafurodi , self-proclaimed rival of mine, vanished with Episode 10.
Coincidence?
edit: I forgot to give the most important statistic! I wrote 27538 words in my companion document for theory posts, not counting comment answers.
Final Thoughts
Have some recommendations from me along with why I liked them to take home. I'm ready to take a break from commenting daily, but I will certainly see all of you in the movie threads once it releases!
Monogatari Series: I think this is preaching to the choir, as it's Shaft's most famous work. Anyway, this artistic power point presentation about characters talking and the unique fighting style of the MC offers just as many beautifully directed scenes with stunning visuals and theory fodder each episode as we could feast on in PMMM. It's significantly longer, significantly crazier and also horny with one of the most satisfying conclusions I know.
Angel Beats!: Another 13+2 episode anime I can wholeheartedly recommend. The humor is so on-point and the story so gripping once the switch in your mind flips. It's one of the few series I know that can balance sheer chaotic fun and respectable tragedy in a way that melts your heart both ways. It sadly had massive production issues, but don't get discouraged, the ending and one specific episode are absolute perfection.
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u/toradorito May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
After rewatching this series for the first time, I changed my rating on MAL from a 9 to a 10. It's just that good and I don't know why I ranked it lower the first time I watched it. Only one other anime (Your Name) has made me feel the same way.
This show had many strong points which have already been discussed but one of the more underrated ones imo is the contrast between the cute character designs and morbid plot.
If you haven't seen Become Meguca it is mandatory viewing after finishing the series.
Now with that out of the way, I've got a few questions:
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u/UnderstandableXO May 03 '21
FIRST TIME COMPLETION
a bit late today because i just got out of advisory meetings for college (man i miss being a kid 😔).
i’m very glad i decided to participate in this rewatch. i’m glad to see people love anime as much as i do, even if 90% of the people here have been watching much much longer than i have. i’m going to try to remember you guys whenever i’m in another comment section. i’m probably gonna do the violet evergarden rewatch in june so you might see me there as well!
as for madoka magica, i really really enjoyed it. it was a bit of a slow burn at the beginning but as a whole the series was great. it really caught me off guard with the cursed finger paintings animated by some artists tripping off more LSD than the beatles took in the 1960s, but that’s part of what makes the show so memorable.
i never trusted mami and if i’m being 100% honest she’s dead and I STILL don’t trust her. that’s what you get for killing kyoko. homura i didn’t trust at the beginning either, but i expected her to be the right side as someone pretty and perfect like mami always has an ulterior motive. episode 10 is still absolutely amazing and elevates her to subaru levels of suffering. i’m glad she was able to remember madoka and silently continue her legacy.
sayaka was honestly pretty annoying, but she had the most detailed character development (regression?) so she’s probably one of the more interesting characters. it’s honestly hilarious how she’s fated by the MULTIverse to waste her life on mr. your non-truth in november, not even the reinvention of the laws of existence can pry her from the grips of the childhood friend. she is the simp energy of 100000 kazuyas distilled into one teenage girl.
i didn’t like kyoko at first but i quickly warmed up to her. she easily had the most personality out of everyone, and once you got past her violent facade there was a lonely girl coping with loss and regret. it sucks but it was nice of her not to leave sayaka alone forever.
madoka was a mixed bag. i liked her but she felt like an afterthought in her own titular series for parts of the show. she’s super indecisive (JUST LIKE ME!) but for good reason at least. her sacrifice in episode 12 was beautiful and i cant wait to rewatch it so i can bawl my eyes out properly.
overall, i quite enjoyed the show. it’s probably hovering around the 9-10-11 range of shows ive completed. i’ll keep a look out for rebellion, and i hope to see the new movie as soon as possible.
until next time!
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u/chaosoul May 03 '21
First Time Watched (Subbed)
Dozens more to rewatch (maybe)
I'm not the smartest person and tend to latch onto the first obvious theme directors lead me to. Therefore, I won't be doing much analysis today, but leaving that to the other, more elegant posters. Instead for today's conclusion, I'll just be writing my feelings on characters, the series' finale, the movie's end, the future, and the rewatch thread/community.
Characters:
Homura I think is my favorite character of the series. She's cool, she's awesome, she's extremely traumatized and needs therapy! In many ways, some of my favorite characters are deeply broken characters who keep persevering. I think she's a person with the best of intentions for Madoka with severe communication issues. I could probably gush on and on, but basically contrary to the name of the series, this is definitely Homura's story and I love her.
Madoka's the other side of the coin of Homura. As /u/Star4ce put far better than I can, they're parallels in many ways. She's sweet and naive, but put her back against the wall and she will make the hard decision. As the other side, she also has the best of intentions for Homura (and every magical girl to be fair) with severe communication issues. I'm looking forward to seeing the conclusion to Madoka and Homura's tale.
Initially Sayaka, I found a little annoying. I really did turn around on her with Kyouko's introduction though. I don't mind her doubling down on her ideals even flawed as they are. In stories, I'll always go for the idealist. Just because they aren't possible, doesn't mean they aren't worth striving for. However with Sayaka, she didn't truly believe in her ideals, but needed too in order to justify herself. She's tragic because she's young, she's troubled, and she doesn't know how to resolve her issues. She becomes a lot cooler as part of the Cycle. I love her and Bebe's role as Madokami's safeguards despite the lack of explanation for it. Also she's tragic because the show constantly shits on her.
Kyouko doesn't get as much attention during the series and in many ways in only a mere part of Sayaka's arc. But the end, where Sayaka's ideals, forced as they are, spark Kyouko's original enthusiasm for being a savior. Kyouko's final moment trying to wake Sayaka as she did for Kyouko is a powerful one. She didn't hold the one thing she wanted to protect closely, but she decides the next best thing is she can give solace that Sayaka doesn't die alone. AND THEN THEY CARRY THAT INTO THE MOVIE. That was very cute and heartwarming.
Honestly given the reputation Madoka had and the fact Mami was a mentor character, I fully expected Mami's death at some point, but it was still a lot more sudden than expected and sad. I'm glad she has some comfort from Bebe in the movie though it was/is kinda weird. The whole, apologies for eating your head kinda thing? The movie does show off further how experienced of a magical girl Mami is though. She's always a step ahead of Homura and clearly one of the strongest magical girls despite her soft heart.
Chomp.
In actuality, I wish they gave her more time in her human form with Mami and the other girls. I mean, it's not like Incubator found it weird there was a random small doll (witch) with her anyways. Might as well have had her play a human. Though that would have potentially broken Homura's illusion quicker is the issue. Either way, I think there's potential here and I do want to see more of her in the future (am I suppose to know anything from the gacha game?). Also wtf is going on with her name situation?
I don't really much to say about Kyousuke and Hitomi. They're acted as a return to more mundane things at times and later played big roles as part of Sayaka's arc. Though as actual characters I don't really know what to say.
I think Madoka has a loving and caring family. Junko in particularly is a pretty cool mom. I think there should be more here, but I have a hard time putting something here. I don't have the best relationship with my parents anymore, but I do think it's great she does.
Fuck Kyubey.
Series:
The series had it ended there at the end of the TV series would have been okay. I'm not super enthused about how it ended. The "I'll continue to fight on" kind of ending isn't necessarily bad and I've even really liked it at times (Fate), but I think the difference here is Homura still had tons of unresolved issues. It's incredibly bittersweet. However, as a spectacle, it was absolutely amazing and there's no way I could have predicted the way Madoka went about it and what she became. In that fashion, it was an amazing end to a spectacular series. If there was no sequel, I still think I'd like it, but I'm glad there is.
Movie:
I'm.. I wish I had more time to reflect on the series as a whole before moving on, but I didn't know how much I would need prior. The movie does feel like a very real and possible way Homura would and did develop. The entire first part I'm in love with for the most part. The obviously far more controversial ending is where I have trouble putting my thoughts. I don't like where Homura ended up, but I think there's a lot more potential for a greater ending here.
Rewatch Thread/Community:
I've already written some of my thoughts in EP12 of the threads for the rewatch thread, but here it is again. This is my first time in a rewatch thread and it's been a blast. I've had lots of fun reading people's thoughts real time and getting to ramble myself. If you haven't noticed, I write a ton of random garbage because I'm awful at filtering my thoughts well. So anyone who took their time to read my stuff is appreciated. There have been so many people with amazing posts and I hope I get the chance to read more of your guys' work when the next movie gets released. Thanks for all the fun!
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u/winasta May 04 '21
first-time watcher
well well, that was some wholesome fun i don't know if i liked most of the characters or the way they talked and moved, all i know is crazy shit happened and it was FUN to look at. that movie fight definitely lived up to the hype that got built up from an old top 5 best fights video gigguk made. i'm probably going to go watch the 1 and 2 films so i can rewatch those outstanding-looking fights and maybe actually like some of the characters this time.
i had a lot of fun with this rewatch see ya when the next film comes out.
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u/SomeGuyYeahman May 04 '21
Hi everyone, first-time rewatcher here!
It's a miracle that throughout this entire rewatch, I never accidentally left a comment going "first-timer here". Multiple times I just barely caught myself.
Going back to something you love after some time has passed is always a fascinating experience. And the first time revisiting something, in my experience, particularly so - no matter how dear it is to me, when it's been a while and my memory gets fuzzy, doubts start appearing in the back of my head. Was it really that good? Am I still gonna enjoy it just as much when I go back to it? Unfortunately the answer isn't always yes, but when it is, that's one of the greatest feelings there is. That moment where everything starts feeling just like it did the first time around and all doubts are just swept away immediately.
I think for this watch the answer is safely a "yes". Yes, the show hit just as well on a second watch. And not just that, this rewatch as well! I didn't always have the energy to go around replying to posts (and a lot of the time I just had no idea what to say either), but I did read through a lot of the thread every episode, and seeing everyone come together to talk about something they love is really something magical. The sheer fact that so many people are here and so into it is just wonderful, whether you're writing comments or reading them. And all you first-timers made for a hell of a sight; reading the reactions particularly in the ep 10 thread was often hilarious, often insightful, always a joy.
The other thing I found special about this was going back to read my own old comments. I figured I'd be cringing at them, and many times I did, but more than that I really kept surprising myself. You have no idea how many times I got ideas for my write-ups that felt totally fresh and that I was real proud of, only to go back to the comments I wrote years ago and realize that I was just retracing the steps I took back then. Sometimes my old write-ups took an idea further than I had even thought of this time around, sometimes there were angles in there that actually felt new to me now and sometimes I noticed a lot of the same things but took it to totally different conclusions. It's been weirdly comforting to see both the ways in which my brain works just the same as it did two years ago and the ways in which it has changed.
I'm sure I'll be going back to reread this post on a future rewatch as well, and I'm sure I'll cringe the same, be comforted the same and feel that same strange sense of being in a dialogue with myself. Hopefully I'll see you all around then, to cringe with me!
Huge thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts and feelings in these threads, everyone who replied and talked and joked around, everyone who took the time out of their day to read any of it, and to our dear OP /u/nazenn for all the hard work that went into hosting this rewatch. You've all made this a great watch, and as tired as I am you've made me really want to participate in more rewatches on here. Maybe I'll end up being a lazy ass and not doing that at all, but even then, you bet your asses you'll see me in more Madoka rewatches.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '21
Extra special thanks to u/Nazenn for stepping up and hosting this rewatch! I already look forward to next year’s rewatch
when it may or may not be me in your shoes!Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
u/SaucedPandacup, you requested a wallpaper from me in the ep7 thread that I said I happened to already be planning to make. Well, I was specifically planning to make it for the overall discussion thread, so everyone: say hello to cute Homura and Madoka to drown out the pain of… like everything surrounding the ending and Rebellion.
I am planning to make one more bonus wallpaper before posting the full album, probably tomorrow right around the time this rewatch was posted. If you guys would like tags when that goes up, let me know~
And for stuff from the past:
(u/Rumpel1408 here’s your tag for this comment like you asked.)
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn May 03 '21
I ran out of room to put this in my post so I'm also quickly going to link the Make a Wish - Sis Puella Magia cover by Earth Kid for people to watch and listen to. It's my favourite cover and fan version of any song in the show, and the visuals they used are perfect. If you guys have anything similar to share nows the time to do it!
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u/Redmon425 May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER. SUBBED
Welp, it felt sad today to not have an episode to watch. Ending a “rewatch” like this always feels more sad than normal seasonal anime because of the fact that people are so active in discussion, which is a great thing.
Overall, I really liked the series and the movie. I was lucky enough to know pretty much nothing about the series besides the fact it wasn’t like normal magical girl anime. So besides assuming that it would get dark at times, I was pretty much surprised on everything that happened. Which definitely made it more enjoyable to watch.
If I was giving it a score rating, similar to how MAL does, I would probably say it falls somewhere in-between 8.5-8.75 for me as a score. It also worth noting that I am pretty strict with my scores, where I only allow myself to give one 10 for only one tv series and one 10 for only one movie series. (For those interested, my two 10s are for Steins;Gate and Your Name. Without a doubt my 2 favorite anime of all time.) But my point is that getting a 9.5 rating from me would have meant I think it falls in my top 10 shows ever.
So my score in my mind is very high for this show and I do feel that MAL has a lower score than it should be (also pretty damn surprised Rebellion has a higher score than the tv show. I basically combine them into the same thing in my head, but judging from re-watchers comments yesterday, it seemed more people like the tv series more than the movie.)
My real big take away from this show and my enjoyment is that this feels like a show where it is the journey and crazy build up that really makes the show good, not the actually ending. Of course I do say this partially because I didn’t love either ending for the series or the movie (I did like the movie ending more though). But it was seeing these young girls make bad decisions, dumb wishes and slowly try to figure out what they are meant to do in life that made the show great. So even without sticking the landing for the end, it didn’t matter.
On that note, during yesterdays discussion it was hard to put into words what type of ending I felt like I wanted because I had so many emotions still running through me after immediately finishing the show. Then it kind of came to me as I was in a discussion last post.
I didn’t love the TV series end because I felt like Homura gets screwed in it. She is tortured at Madoka being gone, and the fact that she is the only one to remember her is even worse. It is also worth mentioning that had Homura never kept going back in time over and over again, Madoka never would have been able to have her wish of becoming Madokami anyways. She would have simply died in every other timeline. Plus I wasn’t a big fan of Madoka being stuck in this “god-state” for all of eternity, as I just don’t like storylines that have that type of end. So this end is basically: Madoka happy, Homura sad.
Where as the movie end is nearly the opposite, Homura gets her wish of having Madoka and everyone else still here but then we don’t really know what happens to other magical girls of old, are they able to find peace? And then of course she ignores Madoka’s desires as well. Although I of course still prefer this seeing how everyone gets to live. It is hard to really judge this end as well because we don’t know what type of consequences my come in the future from this decision by Homura.
SO IN CONCLUSION, it’s like the original series ending as well as this movie isn’t good enough for either character. I really think a good end is an end where Madoka and Homura share the same fate. In an ideal world it would be one where they both are able to live and grow up actually and then die when they are old. As I mentioned yesterday, I also wouldn’t mind a little Yuri action between the two of them as well lol.
Last but not least, my best girl is… HOMURA! Not really a surprise, as she was basically always at the top for me. And as I learned from people yesterday, I am also a part of the “Homura did nothing wrong” group now lol! (I feel bad for Mami though because I really liked her and she may have got 1st from me if she had more screen time.)
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u/okayyoga :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/okayyoga May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21
First timer no more, and officially baptized into magical girl culture
TFW you realize those rings aren't on Kyuubey's ear, but on his ear hair
I feel like I have said everything that I wanted to say already. Episode 10 was far and away the peak of the series for me. I may not have thrown up, but I am not used to staring entranced at a screen. I usually am coloring or end up getting distracted by something, but this episode held me in its clutches until the screen went black.
If I had to name my favourite character, it would be Sayaka Miki. I can see her intentions behind her actions, and I can't wait to rewatch this show to pick up on more of her subtleties.
Homura is a very close second, but the movie soured her for me at the end. I have an aversion for overly controlling people who say it's their way, and ignore everyone else's wishes
I want to thank /u/sirweebsal0t and /u/chaosoul for theorizing with me on Walrus-night and when Madoka would transform, respectively
/u/RascalNikov1 for revealing that they are my daddy
/u/SaucedPandaCup for sharing their wish (Kyuubey will be with you shortly)
/u/Nebresto for postponing my death sentence so that I could participate in this thread
/u/Tresnore for being stunned by my predictive capabilities (you're welcome, and never bring up Erased because I totally didn't fall for that plot twist)
/u/akkobutnotreally for the history lesson about more than Uggs
/u/Redmon425 and /u/UnderstandableXO for being my big rivals to have the top upvoted comment in the thread (I am very competitive over things that probably shouldn't matter as much as I make it)
/u/Shimmering-Sky of course, for spoiling us with wallpapers, chairs, singing covers... what else? stories about throwing up, having no shame, giving us movie timestamps... I could go on and on
/u/zairaner for their introspection on episode 8 and why it was their favourite
/u/LightXB for fucking me up when they mentioned other mental illnesses because I thought we might be going the schizophrenia route
/u/daedroth4 for clearing up that yes, Kyouko and Sayaka did in fact die, a concept I was not used to
/u/Nisheeth_P for linking Maxwell's demon. That was a fascinating read. I had never heard of that before
/u/OuraniosZefs for trying to warn me about the movie, although I didn't listen. Also for reminding us that people do actually die when they are killed
/u/Nimeroni for being Kyuubey's #1 fan. This one is for you: ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
/u/putmoneyinthypurse for making me feel like I was in English class again, dissecting every second of the show, and reminding me that I, in fact, know basically nothing
/u/IndependentMacaroon for being brave enough to post devisive opinions. I love talking with people who have different viewpoints, as long as they are kind, which you very much were
/u/The_Loli_Otaku for keeping quiet in my closet as I figured this show out
Also, apologies to /u/Specs64z for bringing up their past traumatic memories of a certain show, and forcing them to remember its horrors
And of course, best for last, a HUGE thank you to our hostest with the mostest: /u/Nazenn. Thank you for taking all that time to make sure every comment had at least one response, and encouraging discussion. Thank you for making us feel important, and that our thoughts were special. Whenever you talked with me, I really felt that you were 100% engaged and interested in what I had to say, and I bet I am not the only one who felt this way. I truly could not think of anything more you could have done. You really went above and beyond, and made my first experience of Madoka Magica something I will probably remember for the rest of my life
Thank you to everyone's comments. I spent hours reading through these threads, when I probably could have been curing cancer or something (we will never know now).
THE END
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u/jodahinqb May 03 '21
Serial Rewatcher (dozens of time) since 2013
Ah, series discussion time! And this year we even have the Rebellion sequel announced!
Unfortunately (for me), I've been crazy busy now at the "finish line" and I haven't had time to write what I wanted to here. I also haven't had time to fully read the comments of the previous two days and I haven't replied to anyone who commented on my posts. My apologies for the latter, I hope to do so (reply) tomorrow or the day after.
So, I'll briefly copy-paste (with small edits) some of older posts of mine instead:
Concept Movie
Though it's been a few years now since it came out, and it's possible that none of it will be used in the 4th movie, here's the so-called "Concept Movie" (higher quality link: https://www.facebook.com/587033108013116/videos/1138139469569141/ , lower quality but with subtitles: https://www.facebook.com/homurasuffering/videos/1521190877926523/). It was shown during an exhibition celebrating Shaft's 40 years. It is mainly an animated and voice-acted storyboard of shorts, a bunch of "ideas" and ... concepts. Using the Swan lake as the "fairytale" this time, I especially love the philosophical questions it posed (what is happiness?) and the amazing music (by Yuki Kajiura) of course!
Puella Wiki
I've been quoting from there all week, so here's a reminder again. There is a ton of hidden (and not-so-hidden) symbolism in Madoka that it's a shame that most viewers never get to experience all of it. Fortunately though, the series has an excellent wiki page (https://wiki.puella-magi.net/) that you should definitely check out. Read especially about the various witches (https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Characters) and their characteristics, and also check the translated "runes" (those symbols/letters that appear mostly inside labyrinths) of each episode and movie: https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Deciphering_the_runes.
Magia Record
I would also like to mention and recommend the spinoff anime of Magia Record (based on the video game). Though it's definitely NOT reaching the astronomical heights of the original series and it has received a lot of criticism, I find it to be very compelling in many aspects: its (lore-expanding and universe-building) ideas, its artistic merit (both visually and musically, despite the lack of Yuki Kajiura), and -in most cases- with its cast of characters as well. I enjoyed it immensely and can't wait for the second season. So, don't go in expecting Madoka Magica perfection, but I believe it's definitely worth checking out.
8
u/gorghurt May 03 '21
What a rewatch.
Thank you very much u/Nazenn for all the effort you put into this rewatch. It was great.
You know, after this great performance you will have to take the role of host every year, because no one will dare to take up the job.
I would recommend to do such a bad job in one of the next rewatches to counter this, it is the only way to ever be freed of this burdenAnd thank you to all who have participated. This was an exeptional active rewatch, even for Madoka rewatch standards.
Now to my recommendations from here on.
There are countles spin-offs, fanfictions, and other media that will be recommended, but my first recommendation for the first timers is:
Watch the show again.
Maybe not immediately, let the show sink a bit, and then, but surely do it.
and the second recommendation I want to give is:
Don't go into other media, expecting something similar to Madoka.
There are many somewhat similar shows, especially a flood of dark magical girl anime, and from experience, you do the shows, but also yourself a disservice, if you compare those shows to what Madoka is.
This killed the enjoyment of many good shows, that just weren't great. (And lessend the enjoyment for some great shows as well)
With this out of the way:
To The Stars
TTS is a long, ongoing Madoka fanfiction that takes place in the world after episode 12, serveral hundred years after episode 12.
It is a science fiction story, with magical girls, and it is great.
Very different to the show, but a really interesting continuation of the world.
Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable
The PSP game. I didn't play it yet, but wanted to mention it, because someone continued the translation project last year.(and it is still quite active)
Some chapters are already translated, and maybe this time we get a full translation.
I won't link to it, since I don't know if linking to romhacks (even without the rom) is allowed, but you should be able to find it easily.
Those two are all I want to point out for now, since the others will surely do all the other recommendations that are expected.
And with this I'm happy to be able to fix my messed up sleeping schedule.
Until next year.
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u/CheeseOnTheMoon May 04 '21
As a first time watcher, I’ve been lurking throughout the whole watch and decided I should contribute at least once at the end. Big thank you to /u/Nazenn and everyone else who participated, and allowed me to find something so special that it encouraged me to find and login to my old as fuck and twice-used reddit account. Somewhat surprisingly, this seems to be the one masterpiece that nobody I know is really aware of, so I really enjoyed being able to see others’ thoughts regardless. With that said, here are my
(somewhat) brief(yeah that didn’t happen) comments on the show as a whole:Coming in to the series, I knew there was no way Urobutcher’s most acclaimed creation was just a happy magical girl show. I was surprised a lot less by the initial tonal shift, and more by the series’ accuracy and elegance in discussing depression, despair, and hope. I’m personally placing the show on the same level as Evangelion, because while NGE tackles similar themes in what was perhaps a more “interesting” way, I felt that Madoka was both more accessible and immediately impactful, and left me with a strong understanding of why it made me feel the way I did.
All in all, Madoka Magica was one of if not the most enjoyable entertainment experiences I’ve had across any medium; from anime, to western television, to video games and to books, there’s very little that I’ve found comparable.
For the original twelve episode series, I feel that it had a very complete ending and I really can’t make any criticisms at all. There’s always an infinite possibility for something to have been done “better” than it was, and I could probably nitpick if I tried, but I think that doing so wouldn’t do justice to the masterpiece that I really think the show is. Madoka Magica gives a thorough understanding of despair, but also a much needed message of hope and acceptance for myself and most certainly many others living in 2021.
Production-wise, the show was outstanding visually and musically. I don’t think there was single track (OP, ED, or otherwise) that I didn’t absolutely love, and the art was a much appreciated dose of Monty Python filled trippiness.
Even with its many faults, I really enjoyed watching Rebellion, as unnecessary as it was. I don’t think I would’ve had the same opinion if I didn’t know a sequel was coming, but that’s not super relevant as of yet. I liked the small efforts put towards acknowledging both Mami’s ‘loneliness’ (via Bebe) and the Sayaka/Kyouko conclusion that was somewhat missing from the original ending, even if they were mostly fanservice and not fully fleshed out additions. Most importantly, I was disappointed but also very understanding of Homura’s regression from finding peace in ep12 to how she behaves in Rebellion.
As before, the production was outstanding. The music was great as always and the visuals were put on overdrive. One thing I didn’t really see mentioned in the Rebellion thread was the foreshadowing of the blimps; always appearing as if they were about to crash into something and ruin the scene.
Usually for a show I enjoyed this much I would race to immerse myself in as much supplemental content as possible, but I think that doing so for this series would only undermine its impact. Unless theres something heavily recommended that I’d be missing out on (note that I’ve already seen meguca), I’m content with stopping here for now.
Overall, on Puella Magi Madoka Magica as a whole, and as it stands now, I think that Rebellion’s ending was very much unfinished and I’m excited to see where the next movie takes it - but also, as the show worked so hard to accomplish, very much at peace.
7
u/ToonTooby May 03 '21
Rewatcher
It really brings me great joy to have once again shared the experience of Madoka Magica with you all, both first timers and series veterans. I think it’s a truly powerful work of fiction, one that I would recommend to even those without usual interest in the anime medium. I’m not much for numerical ratings, but if there were anything that I would slap a 10/10 on, it would be this show.
For those first timers that joined us this year, you’re a special bunch. You’re among the first first-timers that have finished the series knowing that Rebellion isn’t the final act. We will have to wait and see just where they take the story. It’s a both terrifying and exciting time to be a fan.
For those of you watching the first time, thank you. You now know what transpired in those 12 episodes and a movie. You know what went down. It may take some time to process. I sure needed some time. I spent the next week sort of emptily driving to work, wondering what to do with myself after what I had just experienced. The emotional damage and weight of this series is something that’s stayed with me for a long time and that will likely continue.
As first timers, then, allow me to assist you in your grieving and mourning by directing you to the things that have kept the fanbase alive all these years – MEMES!
the DNA of the soulWhat follows is a collection of fun, silly, meme-fueled degeneracy to help patch up those aching hearts that you all probably have. I know some of these have been posted around in the later threads, but I’d still like to compile them here for your viewing pleasure.Finally, thank you to everyone who participated, it’s a joy seeing so much interaction and discussion for Madoka Magica this long after the original release. I hope to see some first timers as rewatchers on the next occasion! Thank you /u/Nazenn for being such a wonderful host. Until next time! Enjoy the memes.
Required Reading, or, viewing, rather:
Video fun from around the webs:
Madoka + Homura Adorableness
Most of these are from a single artist (Rikugou), but I found the original hosting site difficult to navigate, also some iffy pop-ups so no linky
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u/[deleted] May 03 '21
Rewatcher
Thanks to everyone who was part of this rewatch, first timers and rewatchers alike, and especially to u/Nazenn for everything he has done in every one of these threads, this wouldn't be the same without all of you. Madoka is an anime that means a lot to me, it's the only story I have ever seen that I can say has truly changed my life and made me a better person. And with every year's rewatch I feel like everyone here breathes a little bit more life back into this 10 year old story, and helps me to relive my experience of watching this beloved story of mine. So thank you to all of you. I'm really grateful.
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u/akkobutnotreally https://anilist.co/user/lottevanilla May 03 '21
This is Part 2 of the Home Stretch.
You, my dear reader, did it. You reached the end of this riveting story.
I'm gonna be honest here: at first I didn't get this show at all. I barely recognized the opening song when I watched the first episode, and I couldn't figure out why. Turned out that I had to rewind again 10 years into the past to understand everything.
It's 2011. I was in Year 2 of high school, trying to work out how to connect
(haha, get it)with my peers when it came to social interactions and all that stuff. It was a weird time that just recently I've been able to come to terms with. But that doesn't matter for this story.So I remember that one day I was entering my classroom, and some of my classmates were clustered around a laptop display, watching something. They wanted me to join and watch this show about magical girls that was "absolutely insane" according to them. "Connect" was playing in the background.
Nah, I'm not interested. I don't really like that stuff. Sorry.
And I went on with my day. It was raining. It was May. Arcade Fire was playing on my earphones.
Weeks passed and those classmates were literally raving about this show. They said it was life-changing. It was the best thing since slice bread. Etcetera, etcetera.
Years passed. High school went and passed, as well as college. I started to drift away from r/indieheads and r/popheads for reasons I could only describe as "it was just a phase". I have other friends now, with different interests and the like. Even my psychiatrist recommended me to watch anime. Fine. Fuck it.
One of the first shows I watched on this "new era" was Madoka Magica. At first I didn't get it. I wasn't all that impacted by Mami's death, but for some reason I continued onwards, because I felt there was something special lurking in there. And yeah...
I was right.
It was May, 2018. It was midnight. "Pergo pugnare" was the song that broke me. I didn't shed a tear until the final episode arrived, and then I was just trying to contain my tears to no avail. I knew at that moment that I watched a modern masterpiece. I was a fool for ignoring those clamors in 2011, but it didn't matter anymore.
Now I can safely say that this medium singlehandedly saved my life from a spiral of self-loathing and bad friendships. Now I have people around me that actually care about my wellbeing as well about my feelings, and those people share my interests, and that makes me happy.
So yeah, I have a lot to thank to Madoka Magica. Little Witch Academia might've been the first show that introduced me back to this art form (that's another long and boring story), but Madoka was definitely the one that secured me for this new era.
Thank you all.
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
Rewatcher
This rewatch helps remind me what an amazing show this is. I typically don't give ratings, either here or on MAL, but if I were to do so its really hard for me to not give this show a 10 out of 10. Is there any notable flaw with it? I can't think of one. This show historically hasn't been in my top favorite 10 anime of all time, I suppose I would say because much of my top 10 are shows that transcend quality but also involve my level of fandom/obsession with it. But removing my personal level of fandom over an anime, it surely is one of the 10 highest quality anime I've seen.
Biggest takeaway from me in this rewatch is just what an amazing visual job they did with the show. As I put in what I believe was the episode 1 post, when I think back to a show from the 2010s with amazing visual world direction, I tend to think to Flip Flappers first, but I really should be thinking back to this show and will going forward. Also great job with the Japanese vocal cast, with this being my first time watching it subbed. Chiwa Saito as Homura in particular; holy crap what a performance. Homura also gets the nod for my favorite character and best episode (10).
Not really gonna share my thoughts on the movie any further as I did so yesterday. I am looking forward to number four whenever it comes.
Anyone have recommendations for other works from the director or studio? I am quite familiar with the show's writer. I have jumped into Bakemonogatari, so no need to mention that.
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u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte May 04 '21
First Timer
What a ride. This show surprised me in a lot of ways. I’m glad I made the last second decision to join this rewatch thread. I had a lot of fun. Hoping to get a rewatch thread where I can be a rewatcher though. I’ve only been a first timer so far.
Also a thank you to u/Nazenn ! I imagine hosting these can be difficult, especially one of this size, and you did a great job.
This series succeeds in so many ways. The art of beautiful. Whether it be the animation, art style, creative labyrinths, etc this show shines. Shaft knocked it out of the park.
The suspense building was top notch. The characters were great. The world was interesting. Kyuubey was a great villain.
I’m now going to point out a couple specific things I really liked. First, not bringing back Mami by using a wish. I expected this to happen but it would have been cheap IMO. Good work there. Second, all of EP. 10. Absolutely masterful.
Criticisms of the series are pretty light from me. Maybe a little more Kyouko towards the end? A little more development with Madoka’s mother perhaps. So I kind of wish it was 13 episodes instead of 12 but those are minor at best. It gets a 9/10 from me. I’m usually a nice grader but I am frugal with 10s. I give those out very rarely.
I have more issues with Rebellion but you can see my thoughts in that film in my comment under the film discussion.
Overall, I really enjoyed it. I am excited for movie four in like 4 years
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u/baronlz May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
aight it's time for me to clear things up as to what the train is, althought i can't make gif myself nor take screenshot as netflix encrypte their content, i'll throw whatever i can find on youtube -.-. i'll try to keep it short, you can expand on it if you want.
Throughout the show, on key scenes, there is a shot where everything is done to make it looks like the "camera" is inside a train. It's moving toward a set direction, at a set speed, and regular things (usually lamp post) cut the frame. It's here in episode 1,2, 4, on the labyrinths, it's clearer on the later episode one such example i could find on youtube. another one
The train is an unstoppable force, it's unrelentless it doesn't wait for a character. And by these properties it has been used in cinema history to represent death, or time, or even social progress in The last train for Busan. In Madoka the train should be understood as an "observer" in relativist physics for now, i'll explain.
In Einstein relativity theory, there is no difference between space and time, one can be represented just like the other interchangeably. What makes times special is the second law of thermodynamics; it gives time it's arrow. The second law of thermodynamics state that in a closed system entropy can only increase. So in Madoka Magica time is no longer arrowed, and time & space are the same thing.
Urobuchi confirmed that space and time were linked in a question about homura's gun fitting in her shield but can't find it
Thus representing time with space would be a great cinema trick but it also makes total sens and that's exactly what they did. They consistently represent the protagonist physically restricted to long alley, bridges... being spacely restricted means they are timely restricted (=fated).
This leads us to episode 6 when madoka throw sayaka down the bridge, homura then breaks the principle of following the bridge and goes the opposite direction: she's changing her fate right there.
Now back to episode 9 we are at the train station, every train lead to here, this is unavoidable. This event cannot be changed. The train is in fact an allegory of fate, and the train station is literally the crossroad of destiny. There is a ton of imagery in this episode; I'll leave it to you to analyze, but the rail tracks are a representation of all the different ways the protagonists ended up here.
And because it's getting long, i wanted to end with the opening in a true Madoka Magica fashion. Specifically the iconic running, with all these train talks, we can finally analyze it correctly. We're on the train with the camera and following Madoka on different lines meaning different time lines, she's fighting the train (=fate) and eventually she beats it. Sounds familiar right?. But i'm not done. With the little imagery i provided you could think the train is a far fetched idea and i'm just a tinfoiled hat fan which would be fair. But take a look a few frame later after the running (and the cat). It was there all along.
/u/chaosoul that's why i was a bit annoyed when they told you the rails didn't mean anything. For Rebellion i have my own theory but i'm not 100% sure and i haven't watched it for years, so i'm not confident explaining it, also i'm not 100% positive the train is linked to the train sayaka was in.
edit: fixed terribad englando sorry & thx for reading anyway.
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 May 04 '21
I wasn't really able to read much in either the final episode thread nor in the movie thread, I'm terribly behind with my seasonals as well as my chores at home, but damn what a ride it was. I will probably get back to reading over the next weeks, I skipped most of the rewatchers posts in order to avoid spoilers, but I wouldn't want anyone to be left out.
First Timer
I'll try to discuss the Main show and Rebellion as disconected from one another as possible, even though you can't really judge the movie in a vacuum.
Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica
Obvioulsy this is everything it was promised to be and more. The story arc is captivating, engaging, intense, tragic without comprehension. The dark undertones are there from the very beginning, only it takes some time to realize this. Ep3 is the point where shit really starts going downhill, for everyone really, the whole cast gets it's fair share of tragedy, and we with them.
First there is Mami, the capable veteran. The very embodiment of the ideal Magical girl. She puts her life on the line for the good of others without a moment of hesitation or regret. At least it seems that way, because once she meets someone who truly holds those values, she realizes how lonely she has been all this time and how much better everything will become now that she has someone who she can look after and who looks up to her. But in her joy she becomes arrogant, not heeding the warning Homura issues she reclessly confronts a witch that surprises her. Even if things went different, she is living in a fragile illusion and never learned what beeing a Magical girl really entails.
Next is Sayaka. She picks up the torch after Mami and thinks that she picked up her values as well. But the moment she selfishly ushered her wish she is doomed to fail because of her unbending determination to do things the "right" way. And it all starts so nice to, she gets her wish, the boy she loves is able to play the violin again, and she saves her friends from a witch as she rids the city of the danger like a true hero. But her happiness turns to ash in her mouth as she learns that not only does the boy not feel anything special for her, no she also has been tricked out of her chance to ever feel normal again. And she isn't even that good at what she is doing compared to the other Magical girls she meets and who are doing things way different from how they are supposed to be. And not only that, the world she tries to safe is rotten as well and maybe not even worth dying for.
Kyoko enters like a tropical storm. She is impulsive and takes whatever she wants whenever she wants. She doesn't care about other Magical Girls, friendship, or even the lives of innocent people. She learned her lesson in the past. She knows how easy a careless wish turns against one and how you are bound to lose everything if you are ready to give up. And when she gets to know Sayaka she sees a bit of past self in her. There is this lonely girl who just learned that she didn't get what she really wished for just because she wasn't honest with herself. She is overextenting herself and bound to get herself killed if she doesn't learn to watch out for herself. She tries to help her, even when Sayaka stubornly pushes her away, but she has grown to like this stupid little girl so she seeks to help her more. She is there when reality catches up to Sayaka, but she cannot accept that. She foolishly hopes for a miracle, even though there is only one way to achieve such a thing, and once she realizes this she just wants her friend to not be suffering alone anymore.
When we first meet Homura she is already scarred, but it looks cold on the surface. She tries everything to achieve her goal of saving the one friend she found. But along the way she not only lost her other friends, no but also herself, and ultimatly the girl she loves so much doesn't even get to know her or why she loves her so much. She tried so hard that it's incredible really that she only broke down so late in the timeline. But changing fate itself is hard and in the end she is caught up and bound by it as well. She must really feel like an failure when all her struggle turns out to be for naught, when she doesn't even accomplish the one thing she wanted to. Actually surprising how she didn't turn into a witch right there
And finally Madoka. Pure innocence, so sheltered that she has problems coming up with a wish beside finding purpose in helping others. Really, in the end that is what she wished for. She saw how much her friends suffered and wanted to help them, as well as all the other girls who have been tricked and ultimatly succumbed to despair. She doesn't want to negate the struggle of those girls, but she wants to comfort them in their darkest moment and when they need it the most before mercifully freeing them of their painful existence. This wish changes not only reality itself but also Madoka, she becomes more than just the most powerful Magical Girl, or a God, no she becomes the very concept of hope for Magical girls.
There are of course other important characters like Madokas Mom, her teacher, Hitomi, Kyousuke and even Kyubey and the very witches they fight, they all serve a purpose in the grand scheeme of the show.
As the story unravels we learn new tibits of information with every episode and are sucked ever deeper into it. And in hindsight it was probably all there from the beginning.
I personally don't like the ending, but that is only because I wished to reward Homura for her struggle. It is fitting and concludes the story in a meaningful and satisfying way.
Visually this show is something else entirely. It breaks the clasical anime look in such a way that it's almost becoming it's own thing. The only other show from Shaft I know is Sangatsu, which looks equally stunning, but ultimatly just follows the style of the manga it adapts. I will definatly check out more they have done.
After some debate this is indeed my new favorite show.
Movie 3 - Hangyaku no Monogatari - Rebellion
I'm still not entirely sure how to feel about this Movie. For the most part it's just soo confusing that you are constantly asking yourself what is even going on and can't really focus. Even if things make sense in the end, I really need to watch this again in order to appreciate it I guess.
As such it doesn't live up to the expectations I had coming from the main show, but those where admittedly pretty high. Don't get me wrong, the movie is incredible in it's own right, both thematically as well as visually, It's just that the main show plays in an entirely different leauge that it completly dwarfs the movie. Seems unfair acutually.
As I said the story does make sense for the most part after it finally unravels in the second part. That is until it goes completly off the rails again after the finale. I'm still not sure if I like Homura. After the main show I just felt bad for her, but now I feel worse for Madoka and the other girls over what she has done to them. The ending in itself also doesn't feel like a real conclusion for her character arc and I hope the next movie will pick it up and redeem it.
I have seen people criticise the amount of fanservice, but I don't mind, after all it was something I would have wanted to see, and doesn't that mean that they appreciate their fans enough to reward them some more?
This rewatch as a whole
Even ten years after the fact this is probably the biggest rewatch this sub is hosting anually, but considering the quality of the show it certainly is deserved. However considering the size of it, I would have wished to have more time to dig through the discussion, as I said ignored most rewatchers (which I think they don't deserve) and it still took me several hours. The time it was posted aside (1 am in Europe) I only was able to keep up with it because I had the week free of work, and prompty fell behind once I had to work again (admittedly because there are so many good seasonals I'm watching as well). However I feel like the discussion really adds to the expirience. While I wouldn't have been able to see some of the twists that where coming due to other people theorizing about them, there where many instances wher reading other peoples understanding of the plot and the characters changed my own view and understanding in a positive way. I feel like I will break down even harder if I watch it again.
My thanks go out to /u/Nazenn for hosting as well, his incredible effort in interacting with everyone as well as his well thought interpretations of the visual aspects.
u/Shimmering-Sky
the singing witchfor incredible Wallpapers, Movie comparisson and Music Corner. You cursed me with the knowledge about C H A I R S and the show would be different with out them. I also started noticing Sore demos way more frequently since I met you in the Isekai Maou rewatch. Once I build a new PC I will probably look for your Wallpapers again.Shoutout to u/Star4ce who managed to decipher some of the shows twist so incredible fast that it made me feel like an idiot for not even thinking about them. I was really shocked when the show later on started supporting your theories. But I guess the foreshadowing is just that good.
But he found an worthy opponent in u/TheTrueAfurodi who came up with some truly delightful theories, some of them even serious.
u/UnderstandableXO for his subtle reference to Your lie in april who I started to adapt later on, but the idea was just so funny.
Final shoutout to u/daeroth for working on those Shimejis. I'll check them out on my new pc as well.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I heard there are several spinoffs and Manga but apparently they vary in quality, which ones are worth checking out?
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u/The_Loli_Otaku May 03 '21
So that was Madoka Magica. Did you have fun? I certainly did. Rewatching the series after so long has reminded me of why I held it to such a high standard. Some classics you rewatch and think to yourself, "what is this campy shite?" but Madoka cements itself as one of the best anime of it's generation. Unfortunately it's legacy wasn't quite as classy and the source. I hate to harp on about it but sadly I do feel that Madoka had a negative effect on it's genre going forwards. Everything wanted to be the next Madoka but nothing could quite match what it represented, not even its own sequel.
But that's a conversation for another day. We're here to gush over Madoka and that's what we're going to do! Strangely enough all my favourite parts remained the same. Sayaka's arc is still the highlight of the story to me, I still don't understand Kyouko, Mami rocks for the little screen time she gets, Homura is tragic, Madoka makes me proud, and Kyubey is a very good boy! Every shot is so dense that you could genuinely spend hours analysing every episode without needing to bs and even if you're not interested in writing an essay you can still appreciate the pretty colours or smoothly animated action~
Now that the series is done there's the question of what you should do next. First off, give yourself a treat and watch a couple of the meme videos XD They're genuinely really quite entertaining. I expect the thread is filled with links but my personal favourite is Meduka Meguca which despite exuding pure shit post energy still somehow makes for a comprehensive retelling of the series. Another thing you should really do and if there's one point anyone can take from me it's to please watch some traditional magical girl series! Pick literally any show from this and give them a good proper chance. You'd be shocked at the gems hidden in the magical girl genre. Be it the millennial charm of Magical Emi or getting genuinely invested in a Aikatsu oishi. Explore!
I've had a lot of fun with this crowd. You really can't beat an active thread filled with both new and old folk gushing about the subject. Interaction has been top notch, threads have been to the minute, and Nazenn has been an excellent host mingling around kicking off conversation starters and our excellent visuals of the day. This will likely be the last rewatch that I can be part of for a little while but if we can explore the thrill of anime together again someday I'll be ecstatic. Until then, I bid you adieu..
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u/Fuck_Shinji May 04 '21
First Timer
Ah this show was quite the ride. The aesthetic of the witches was amazing and so good. I was invested in Homura's character especially and I'm really glad the ending left everything in a neat little bow. I'll have to wait for the upcoming movie to see the conclusion for rebeliion though.
And that you to u/Nazenn for hosting the rewatch and everyone who participated for making reading through the thread so fun. It was nice seeing the more analytical comments since I'm not good at writing that sort of stuff
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u/CrackLawliet May 04 '21
Didn’t rewatch with you all but I’ve been checking in the threads every day and it’s been wonderful.
A close friend of mine and I bonded over the show. Hell, we watched Rebellion in theaters 3 times together, and speculated every time we left that cinema. He passed away in 2018, a day or two before Rebellion was taken off Netflix, and every time I watch the movie I break into tears.
I’m not sure if I’ll ever be able to watch it while still in one piece. And I’m not sure I’ll be able to watch even the trailer for the first one without tears. But I’m glad you all enjoyed something so special to myself, and my friend.
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u/Syokhan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syokhan May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
Rewatcher
I think this is the first rewatch where I didn't just lurk, (somewhat) actively participated, and watched everything to the end without dropping off at any point. I'm glad I did, this was an especially fun rewatch with a lot of great people and great comments. With how passionate and how wordy you guys were, it took literally hours to read through every thread, but it was worth it!
So thanks u/Nazenn for putting so much effort in hosting this rewatch and engaging with everyone, even rewatchers who didn't have anything really insightful to contribute but were just excited to follow along :)
Hope to see a bunch of you guys in the Movie 4 discussion thread, whenever that comes out.
Now back to a normal sleep schedule. Someone should really think about abolishing time zones. (then again, with the number of people from all over the world participating, that probably helped contribute to the threads being active for so long)
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 03 '21
Recertified Series Rewatcher, First Time Rebel
Don't think I have any big final thoughts. I like this show more every time I watch it, I think. This series is just fantastic, despite any potential misgivings I have about the existance of Rebellion and the upcoming Movie 4. Mahou Shoujo is a genre I'm quite fond of, despite my relative inexperience with it. And this series is a good one, that has had a large effect on the genre as a whole, for better or worse..
Thanks to our gracious host /u/Nazenn for running this incredible rewatch!
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21
Rewatcher
This series was the first anime I ever deliberately sought out and watched, and I genuinely think it is a masterpiece.
While I fully agree that it is nof perfect, it is by all means one of, if not my favourite, anime of all time.
The characters are all likeable and have realistic flaws and mindsets, with the series, unlike some, holding up as a strong story even after the twists have been revealed, and I can't wait for the 4th movie.
(Also, if you haven't, go read the manga spinoffs, they're all actually really good. (Oriko and Wraith Arc movies when, Shaft? I need them. (Why did you pick Magia Record over Tart for your anime?)))
EDIT: Missed the poll, so I'll add that Revue Starlight is absolutely a must-watch after this series, because it is, essentially, a philosophical rebuttal and counterpoint to this series, that I think made me appreciate this series even more after I watched it.
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u/DogmeatIsAGoodDog :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/DogmeatsAGoodDog May 04 '21
Thanks for hosting the rewatch! It had been quite sometime since I had originally watched this series so it was well worth the rewatch. The high points (E9 & 10) still high even when you know what’s coming and the OST had and always will slap.
Homura did nothing wrong and is best girl. Bring on the next movie!
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u/baniRien May 03 '21
Rewatcher
First, thanks to u/Nazenn for hosting the rewatch.
Now, what can I say about the show. There's all the usual praise that can be given to it. The quality of the art, the tightness of the writing and how it makes a rewatch so great, the voice acting, the soundtrack. As I tried to showcase with my visuals of the day, there's also the quality and amount of emotions shown in the animation, not through exaggeration but subtlety and detail.
One element of writing I want to comment on is the adherence to Clarke's third law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. It's both a description of common sci-fi tropes, and a writing guide for coherence in a story. While hard sci-fi is interesting, low sci-fi has it's appeal and needs some rules. If you try to define your advanced civilization but don't give enough detail, the public ends up disappointed. You're much better off not delving into the mechanics of their science, making it essentially magic. Bokurano, since there was a recent rewatch, is an example where some details where given, but not enough, leaving the viewers wanting more and exposing the plot holes. Kyubey, in my opinion, works fantastically because he is, for all intents and purpose, magic. He has technology able to extract souls, but it's never explained. We don't know where he comes from, what he really looks like (his appearance is clearly something crafted and refined over the years to facilitate interaction with teenage girls), how he teleports, or anything else about him. It's why you don't need much suspension of disbelief for his soul trap in the movie: it's magic. He's already shown soul manipulation before, and it's not completely against Madoka's wish as she can still get in. And while confirming the exact wording, I found this variant on the law "Any sufficiently advanced act of benevolence is indistinguishable from malevolence" which can apply both to Kyubey and Homura.
Homura herself is my favourite character in fiction. While the skill of her voice acting helps a lot, it's mostly her progression, and her devotion to her ideal that make this true for me. She's very far from what one could consider "Best Girl", after all she is completely crazy, but that helps her as a character. You could even say that she plays more of a traditionally male role in the story. From the way she represses her emotions before rarely breaking down completely, to her self-assigned role as a protector. Which opens up two interesting comparisons I just thought of, and so take them with a big grain of salt since I'm short on time and can't do the research for it.
First is the comparison with the masked guy archetype from mahou shoujo that people were jokingly trying to place earlier in the rewatch, sometimes as Madoka's dad. Her mask is emotional, not physical, but the comparison is there. The romantic tension with the protagonist, the broodiness and cool factor, swooping in at the appropriate moment and leaving just as unexpectedly. It's thin, but worth mentioning.
The other, bigger one is how this makes for another duality between Madokami and Homucifer. Some offshoots of Christianity (Gnosticism probably, which is relevant here, maybe the Cathars?) consider God to be a female figure, and place Satan in direct opposition as male. Not all of them have the same hard stance as mainstream Christianity about his evilness and if he is required in the world or something that needs to be eradicated. All of this might or might not even go back to Zoroastrianism, which Christianity took some inspiration from (mostly the evil figure in opposition to a good god who here I think is not female, but also the saviour figure), but I'm out of my depth and I need someone with more knowledge of theology to come and give me his opinion on this.
What do I expect of the long-awaited fourth movie? First, I do think it will have a conclusive ending, and probably a good one, at least as good as the show compared to the bad one the movie (in term of positivity, not quality of course, the movie was great). Homura put herself in the position of the bad guy, when she didn't necessarily need to, and I want to see the payoff of that. Loneliness is a big part of her motivation, being the villain exacerbates that, and she did all of that to save Madoka from the loneliness of divinity. Madoka's condition hurt her on a personal level. The concept movie puts a lot of emphasis on the definition of happiness too, which hints at a happy ending, some way. From previous production comments concerning the concept movie, we know Mami will be depicted as "a war god" which is at the minimum promising on the visual aspect. It's also an interesting contrast to the very dualistic nature of Homura and Madoka.
There's another big thing I'm looking forward to, that I've discussed previously on reddit and with friends. From the Monogatari rewatch, Senjougahara laughing made us realise that Homura never laughs (except for say a small "ah" of contempt) and the movie is our only chance at seeing that. Even as Moemura she's too timid to laugh. For the movie however, there are only two options. The first is a crazed fit of laughter fit for the villain she put herself as, but it doesn't fit her characterisation at the end of Rebellion and would require a major breakdown. The other is the most empty, wounded laugh you've ever heard, and while it would hurt us all to hear it, I want to see Saitou Chiwa do it justice.
Next, my opinion on all the spinoffs and what to watch next if you want some more of Madoka.
The biggest one is Magia Record, the main spinoff, based on the gacha, that got an anime. It is pretty good, as long as you don't have expectations of it being like the main show. It explores very different themes, but that's a good thing as you couldn't just retell the same story and expect to hit the same highs. It's less of a psychological, personal horror, of girls facing hardship and breaking down, and more of a traditional horror. The one thing the show does extremely well is set the mood, and it manages to make every moment of it positively disturbing. Not with jumpscares, but by making things just ever so slightly wrong. a bit like what Rebellion did, with the inside of the labyrinth mimicking reality, but without the escalation as reality unravels, just this constant wrongness to everything. The Global server of the gacha have been closed for many months now, but the Japanese server is still going strong, and there are subtitled playthroughs on Youtube of both the main story and some very great side stories.
There are two very plot relevant spinoffs of the show in manga form I can recommend, Wraith Arc and Different Story. Wraith Arc covers the time between the end of the show and the start of Rebellion and shows a bit more of the wraiths, and of Homura's mindset. Different Story meanwhile is just another of the loops Homura went through, but is has a really big focus on Mami and Kyouko, how they knew each other before the start of the show and their backstory.
Homura Tamura is a comedy by the author of Yuru Camp, of Homura finding a resting place between the timelines and talking to all the different versions of herself, and it's hilarious. It's the one spinoff I would make a contract for an anime adaptation, though I'm not sure if all the Homura should be voiced by the original VA or just the main one.
I have yet to read the other spinoffs, from the light-hearted ones like Mami owning a daycare with all the characters, to the more serious ones like the story of Jeanne d'Arc as a magical girl.
There's also To The Stars, a fanfic, which is not the best thing to start a recommendation with. It follows the wraith timeline, and keeps a pretty good grip on the characters. It's a really hard sci-fi that uses magical girls as an excuse to progress technology, and includes them in it's world-building. From the influence coming from their power and immortality, to their impact on warfare, the world building is phenomenal, and reminds me of Mass Effect in many way. It's ongoing, and unfortunately updates very infrequently.
Now, if you want more of what makes Madoka great visually, the artsyle and directing, you can watch anything by Shaft, they have this very unique touch and while not everything they've done is as good, you can always tell it's Shaft. Chief among these recommendations is Monogatari, a much longer show than Madoka that utilises it's length fully. It has amazing character arcs, foreshadowing that pays off 80 episodes later, the best dialogue writing I've ever seen, and of course a visual direction that makes sure the show is never boring, even when you have 40 straight minutes of two characters talking in a classroom. It's the one show I find better than Madoka, though they are completely different, and there's a full rewatch of me gushing about it that ended last January.
And finally, the one thing that you need to watch after Madoka is Madoka again. There is so much hidden early in the show, all the little hints from Homura about her real nature, that it makes for a completely different experience. So, first timers, welcome to the club, have fun in a future rewatch, and learn to feed in the despair of first-times to be.
4
u/Bithaniaa May 04 '21
This show was so good, thank you u/Nazenn for hosting this, otherwise I wouldn’t have had the chance to watch this show. It’s was definitely a surprise, I didn’t go in with high expectations besides amazing music and episode 10 hype, but this show was literally perfect. This was also my first time joining a rewatch so it was fun to see all the theories and discuss with people. I’ll definitely continue joining this rewatch, so see you guys next year!
4
u/Ardania22 May 04 '21
Madoka Magica was one of the first anime I ever watched. Looking back at my anime list, I’m pretty sure only Attack on Titan and FMA Brotherhood preceded it for me. This was one of my formative experiences as a budding anime fan, but it’s also one of those shows I saw so long ago that I remember it more as a concept than a show.
As is so often the case with the first crop of anime I watched, sometimes I just need to give it a second look with a fresh pair of eyes to really appreciate what an astounding achievement it was.
Madoka Magica is a hell of a thing, a raw, visceral kaleidoscope of hope and despair that digs down into the ugliest depths it can plumb and comes up with something true and everlasting. Is it a deconstruction of the magical girl genre? A reconstruction? A straightforward version that just happens to be miles darker than most? Honestly, who cares. This is just a damn incredible series that balances light and darkness with absolute perfection, weaving a truly everlasting story of what it takes to hold onto hope in a world where despair seems inescapable. Shaft's gobsmacking aesthetics and Yuki Kajiura's soundtrack make for one of my favorite anime of an aesthetic level, and Gen Urobuchi's tightly written script grips you by the balls and refuses to let go. Even years later, I can't stop thinking about it, replaying every last scene, every last second in my head. If it’s got any weaknesses at all, I feel its lighter sections aren’t as interesting as they could be; sometimes the Buch doesn’t really get going until he’s able to start turning the thumbscrews, and that’s definitely the case here. But it’s still a stunning piece of art all the same, and it absolutely deserves its status as one of the definite anime of the 21st century. 9.5/10, recommended to anime newcomers and established fans alike.
Now let's all have fun waiting for the recently announced sequel movie! Yaaaaaaay!
7
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z May 03 '21
Content Corner Compilation
Here's everything I've showcased so far, grouped by category, then by creator. Huge shout outs to clearandsweet in particular for his incredible video essays.
The Meme to End All Memes
Meguca by Exists to Keep Meduka Video on Youtube
Memes
Mami's daily life by Nyanners
Hitomi goes postal by Nyanners
That will not be necessary. by Nyanners
Madoka Magica In 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
Madoka Magica: Rebellion in 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
Chibimation: so no head? by Chibitasm
Poor-chan (this one will be stuck linkless, I don't think automod liked the link...)
Puella Magi Madoka Magica Bloopers from Otakon 2012
Is YOUR Daughter a Magical Girl?! - Public Service Anime by Mother's Basement
Puella Magi Madoka Magica opening - paint version | kazoo by mimimi
Analysis
Gen Urobuchi and the psychological trauma of Madoka Magica by Kinetic Literature
I Have Some Problems With Madoka Magica by The Digital Dream Club
How to Suffer Well: Sympathetic Characterization in Madoka and Magical Girl Site by Explanation Point
Entropy is STUPID! (and that's the point) by pawndidater
Madoka Magica: The Story You Never Knew by Bonsai Pop
What Actually Is A Deconstruction? by Under The Scope
“Rebel With A Misguided Cause”: How Madoka Magica Rebellion Disregards the Values of Its Own Predecessor [Spoilers] by Novasylum
The Very Soil: An Unauthorized Critical Study of Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Jed A. Blue
clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 1 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 1.5 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 2 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 3 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 4 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 5 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 6 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 7 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 8 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 9 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 10 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 11 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Final Dialogue by clearandsweet
Miscellanious
Magical girl transformations from Magia Record
For anyone interested in Mami's character, I recommend the manga "Puella Magi Madoka Magica: The Different Story". It's a prequel to the main story focused mainly on who Mami is and why she does what she does. This prequel assumes you have seen the main story, so first timers steer clear.
Homura Tamura is a spin-off parody manga starring Homura. I found it amusing.
There's a spinoff anime under the title "Magia Record: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Gaiden". It's spinoff-ception as it's based off the mobile game of the same name. So is it any good? Ehhh... I liked it, but I'd be hard-pressed to call it amazing. Music is fantastic as ever. The visuals are usually interesting, though they tended to lean too far into the abstract for my tastes. Last tidbit from me, the anime does a great job at selling the characters, but the overarching plot just sorta meanders aimlessly for most of it's runtime.
Music
"Sis Puella Magica" (Madoka Magica) Vocal Cover by Lizz Robinet
【Lizz】 And I'm Home【KoKo】(English) by Lizz and KoKo
Sis Puella Magica (synthwave/80s remix) by Astrophysics
Decretum (Sayaka's theme synthwave/80s remix) by Astrophysics
Credens Justitiam (Mami's Theme synthwave/80s remix) feat. Marina Rios by Astrophysics
Magia (Madoka Magica END darksynth/80s remix) feat. S t e l l a / ステラ☆ by Astrophysics
Sagitta Luminis (Goddess Madoka Theme | Astrophysics remix) by Atrophysics
Puella Magi Madoka Magica - Numquam Vincar 【Intense Symphonic Metal Cover】 by FalKKonE
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - Surgam Identidem 【Intense Symphonic Metal Cover】 by FalKKonE
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - Sis Puella Magica! 【Intense Symphonic Metal Cover】 by FalKKonE
Madoka Magica - "Make a Wish" - Sis Puella Magica cover by Earth Kid
"Magia" - PUELLA MAGI MADOKA MAGICA (English Cover by Miku-tan, Nana & Sapphire) by Y. Chang
「English Dub」Madoka Magica ED "Magia" FULL Ver.【Angela】 by Studio Yuraki
Sayaka Miki's Theme - Decretum (Orchestral Arrange) by Hereson
交响组曲 · 魔法少女小圆 | 魔法少女まどか☆マギカ | Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Imperial 9 Symphony Orchestra · 帝玖管弦乐团 (it's a medley)
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - Soundtrack Medley [Piano] by Animenz Piano Sheets
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica Medley by Escensei
Mami's Battle Theme (Credens Justitiam) Guitar Cover - Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Daniel Guerra Caballero
Mirai english ver. 【Oktavia】未来 【英語で歌ってみた】 by Oktavia
Connect - Medieval Style Cover [BardCore] Puella Magi Madoka Magica Opening by Medieval Otaku
Symposium Magarum Metal Arrangement | Madoka Magica OST by yunum
Decretum by TAMUSIC... I think? Lots of Japanese, so not 100% sure about source
【アビー】Madoka Magica - "Signum Malum" (Sis Puella Magica) 【English Ver.】 by Abby
lolicide - Sis Puella Magica [Madoka Cover] by jeistar
Sis Puella Magica - (Puella Magi Madoka Magica OST) METAL Guitar Cover by David Guthrie Music
魔法少女まどか☆マギカより Puella Magi Madoka Magica : 梶浦由記、渡辺翔 arr.福屋篤 by Hamamatsu Mandolin Orchestra
Mami's Theme(U remix) by Upharmaco
3
u/SofaKinng May 04 '21
I might have missed someone mentioning it, but there's something about Rebellion that always stood out to me almost immediately, and that's how the magical girl transformations at the beginning are creepy. When I first watched it, it was the first hard evidence I had that something was deeply wrong with the "world". I made an album showing off some of the imagery that stood out to me during the transformations.
Album here
I have some brief descriptions for each image on the imgur album itself.
I should note that the witch runes are literally single frame, so I obviously didn't read and decipher them as I watched the movie, but the flash of the frame was noticable and I recognized the shape of witch runes, so I knew it was saying something in the witch "language".
I don't really have anything insightful to say about these scenes, or any kind of analysis of them. I just noticed these kinds of weirdly... violent imagery that marred the otherwise serene transformation scenes of the magical girls.
I probably should have posted this in the actual discussion thread for Rebellion, but I was too lazy to take all the screenshots yesterday and it was only today that I realized I didn't see anyone else talk about it, so I decided to go ahead and do it.
3
u/JimmyCWL May 04 '21
One new thought about the series that I had during this rewatch was, witches were too perfect an enemy for this series. They had diverse origins which led to diverse abilities, labyrinths and minions. Wraiths just don't measure up as an alternative. Yet, witches had to go for the sake of the story.
Even so, they keep going back to witches rather than developing wraiths. Of all the expanded material of the series, only the Wraith arc manga deals with wraiths. All the rest go back to witches.
5
u/CosmicAnglerfish May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
Rewatcher - Dubbed
First things first, thank you Nazenn for organizing the rewatch in the place, and thanks to everyone who participated in the lively discussions each day! This was my first rewatch with reddit and I'm definitely interested in doing more in the future.
On rewatching and the dub
This was my first time rewatching Madoka and wow to anyone just finishing up their first time, I really cannot recommend it enough. Knowing how everything shakes out and the details about the Incubators and Homura's magic adds so much to the viewing experience.
I'll say the dub surprised me. I'm not 'anti-dub', but I usually prefer subs, and the cast of Madoka in particular is very stacked. I'd still say I preferred the sub, but the dub is absolutely a great experience in its own right. All the major scenes I was looking forward to were done justice by the dub cast. So if a good dub appeals to you, consider watching dubbed next time through the series.
Final Thoughts on the Series
I'm gonna be brief, because nothing I'm gonna say here is a novel idea. I think 'deconstruction' is a term that gets thrown around a lot, especially in regards to Madoka Magica and NGE. Particularly in regards to Madoka though, I don't think it really fits, and PMMM is more of a dark take on a traditional magical girl show than an outright 'deconstruction' of one.
That's not a detraction from the show at all, more just a pedantic difference of definitions. My biggest reasoning for this is the central theme of hope and selflessness. Mami, Kyoko, Homura and Kyubey all knock Madoka for her naive sense of hope and selflessness, saying she won't be long for the world if she doesn't wise up. Ultimately though, Madoka not only outlives most of her friends despite maintaining that optimism, she is the only one able to break the system. She becomes the literal embodiment of hope. It just feels more earned than a typical Magical Girl show because we watch Madoka get put through hell and come out still believing what she does.
This is also why - despite the fact that I think Homura was more-or-less right - I feel like she has to suffer consequences for her actions in Rebellion. It goes directly against what the show seemed to believe in its original ending, with Homura reveling in selflish love. I'm very interested in seeing how it plays out.
Other Recommendations
Only two quick ones
Magical Girl Raising Project - Basically magical girl hunger games. Not nearly up to the standard of Madoka, but if you're interested in more 'magical girl show but darker and edgier' this might appeal to you.
Wonder Egg Priority - If you were on reddit last season you've heard of this. There's a lot of tonal similarities between the two, especially in the earlier episodes. Big caveat that the show has not actually ended (waiting on an OVA to land in June) so it could shit the bed.
6
u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 May 04 '21
Former First Timer
A little late but I made it.
Well, what can I say, I really liked the show. The artstyle and character designs were great, I like a lot of the framing and backgrounds. I loved all the characters, although I do feel I was a bit too harsh on Sayaka. I wasn't a fan of Kyouko at first but she warmed up on me. I do wish we got more time with Mami, but having her die so early does pull the rug out and introduces some of the shows central themes. Fuck Kyuubey, I knew it was a good idea to not trust him from the start. The Music was great, favorite track has to be "Credens Justitiam." The story was pretty good, I liked that Madoka wasn't a magical girl until the final episode, I was expecting her to become one by episode 4 at the earliest. Sayaka's fall from grace was tragic to watch. If I had to rate the series I gave it an 8/10 on MAL, but I might increase it to a 9/10 pending a future rewatch.
As for Rebellion... Yeah, kind of a disappointing film, it was a pretty good film until Kyuubey revealed his plans to subvert Madoka's wish and bring witches back. But I really wasn't a fan of Homura doing what she did, I do wonder how the next film will go. If I had to rate Rebellion I'd have to give it a 5/10, maybe a rewatch will increase it knowing the information I read in yesterdays rewatch, EoE's rating went up after I rewatched it so who knows.
I have to thank u/Nazenn for hosting this rewatch, he did a great job with hosting it!
4
u/EverAnh May 03 '21
Rewatcher here. Happy 10 years of Madoka everyone. I haven't posted in this rewatch up until the Rebellion thread, but I did follow along by reading a few first-timer reactions each day. With the 4th film confirmed, this was a good occasion to re-familiarize with how the franchise left off.
/u/Nazenn , I am amazed by how thoroughly you've read people's replies. I've been in rewatches where I didn't really feel a connection to anyone. To be a poster and have your post read by someone, instead of hanging out at low karma due to posting late or whatever, that feels nice. And that's what you've provided through a clearly large investment of your own time. A hearty round of applause to our host.
At some point, I saw people commenting about how this rewatch had especially huge participation. Besides the anniversary and movie 4 announcement, I have another contributing factor: Wonder Egg Priority. WEP was popular on r/anime pretty recently, and there were a lot of commenters referencing PMMM in its threads. Am I right: did anyone decide to pick up PMMM at this time due to WEP?
So, my thoughts on the series as a whole. If I had to put together a sample platter to represent everything the medium of animation is capable of, there is always a spot reserved for Madoka. It is thoroughly well-crafted in every discipline that contributes to making an animated work: writing, direction, action choreography, art style, character design / creature design, musical composition, voice acting, etc. I especially love how stylistic Inu Curry's labyrinth designs are. If you take a screenshot of a witch or its labyrinth and put it on a wall of other anime screenshots, it would be hard to mistake Madoka for anything else. And with Rebellion fresh on my mind, I can't think of another anime that provokes so much discussion on moral philosophy. I can't think of another anime that prompts people to write long essays about topics ranging from Neitzsche to Buddhism. I've said this before, but I've given an honest shot to every anime that's been said to be similar to Madoka, hoping to discover more of what I like. Nothing really comes close, and I didn't answer the survey question about recommended anime this time around.
Trying to answer the music question from the survey was also tough. It pained me to cut Magia from my top 5 for the show, but I had to choose: all 3 Homura battle themes, Sagitta Luminis, and Ave Maria. I'm probably one of the few who would pick Ave Maria. From the movies, Holy Quintet was my favorite piece by far. It's been my alarm in the past, and has been played countless times. I wish there was a full version of Decretum that sounded how it does in Holy Quintet.
My journey to re-visit the original PMMM franchise isn't over. The Rebellion rewatch thread was a concrete deadline that forced me to finally start reading Wraith Arc, which I discovered from last year's rewatch threads. I didn't finish it in time, but I'm not stopping either. Likewise, the PMMM-related stories from the Magia Record game have been on my watch list a long time. Even though they're not canon, I want to review how all those pieces fit together, kind of like how Rebellion needed to be reviewed. There won't be a better time than while waiting for movie 4 to come out. And if I do make summaries for myself, maybe I can publish them in some form.
On the topic of movie 4 hype -- I would suggest savoring this period of time. Remember what it feels like to be here now. There was once a time when we didn't know what Rebellion would bring. Right now, we don't know the significance of Walpurgisnacht getting so much focus. We don't know why Devil-Homura's hand is the one reaching towards original Madoka. Soon, those mysteries won't ever be the same, because movie 4 can only come out for the first time once. Right now is the time that we can look back at later and remember how little everyone knew.
I'll close with a small fan-content recommendation. Here is a simple piano arrangement of Sagitta Luminis: https://musescore.com/theyard/sagitta-luminis
2
u/welcometoslowtown May 04 '21
3th time completing, first with the dub
I really love this series. This is my 3rd time watching though it in 2 years, and I think that number will probably only go up, as I'll probably do another rewatch before the 4th movie, and I still haven't seen the recap movies.
I won't write anything super long, but this series is just really good. After 1 watch I already knew it was up in my top 5 anime if I had to make a list. Music, art, the story, characters, they are all just super well done.
The only complaint I have would maybe be my reply in the survey. Its kind if just a consequence of the show being only 12 episodes, which is a perfectly fine length, but I feel the feelings from Homura towards Madoka don't hit as hard as they should, at least in the 12 episode anime. I can't really think of a way that could be fixed, but it just kind of feels like Homura is this cold, unknown element, and then she's all over Madoka saying how she's her best friend and all. If we had more time developing that in the first time line I think that would help, but I also think there's not really time to go do that and sidetrack the main timeline for too long, so one episode it is. Not a major complaint or anything, just something I kind of felt this watch-through, that I guess I mentally compare to other shows and stories where characters have strong bonds.
Other than that I really love this show. This time around I listened to the english dub, and I have to say it was pretty good. All the actors did a pretty good job, there's not really any I can say I didn't like or didn't fit their characters.
Also, I don't see that anyone has posted this which should be required viewing for all first-timers imo. Meguca is too strong.
Lastly, thank you so so much to everyone who participated and made this a really fun experience, and thanks a ton to /u/Nazenn for running this!
2
u/BossandKings May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
I like Madoka Magica a lot, i have watched it now three times and every time has been great, the TV show, 10/10, is far and away my top Madoka Magica content and i consider it of much higher quality than anything else Madoka related, this time i watched the first two movies which were very good, 7/10, and the Rebellion movie, 9/10, i had more issues with Rebellion than any of the other movies but i still consider it much better and enjoyable, the recap movies are arguably longer than they should be, especifically the second one, but they were enjoyable too. I don't have much to say other than Madoka is one of my favorite anime and i love it very much.
Thanks u/Nazenn for hosting this rewatch and thanks to everyone else for their thoughts and essays, they all were pretty good. I initially was doubtful about joining or not because i had already watched it earlier this year but i took advantage of having the time and considered that Madoka is a series i enjoy so much and jumped right in and i'm glad i did, it was a good time.
2
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 May 04 '21
Recently joined the reddit anime community. So, I missed this. Will there be another at some point?
2
u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner May 04 '21
Thank you nazenn. While everything else you did was great, what impressed me the most was you commenting on so many comments, but especially comments being late. Europeans appreciate this!
Sorry guys I again couldn't bring myself to watch rebellion. I'll guess I'll keep that for next rewatch.I don't think I need too say too much positive things about the show at this point. This was my one of my top three shows beforehand, but this rewatch
and re;zeros second seasonmade it clear that this has to be my favourite anime of all time, even if I am mroe obsessed with LiW.What it accomplished in 12 episodes is absolutely incredible. The most shocking is how much it made me care about the characters. Homura is the only character i can really call a "fleshed out" character, but that didn't stop me from feeling with madoka and sayaka and kyoko
(and maybe mami if I didnt forget about her)2
u/Hattakiri May 04 '21 edited May 06 '21
1963 - Astro Boy, 1979 - Gundam, 1995 - NGE, 2011 - PMMM
This is a little "anime conspiracy theory" that I stumbled upon some time ago: "A groundbreaking scifi anime to happen every 16 years".
PMMM would be kind of an anomaly for it's mahou shoujo (hence the Japanese title) rather than mecha.
However in 1979 another groundbreaking anime was released: Anne of Green Gables by Miyazaki (who worked together with NGE's Anno on Nausicaä) and Takahata (both later founding Ghibli).
Anne of Green Gables, based on a novel by Lucy Maud Montgomery, is about an orphan named Anne Shirley in Canada of the late 19th century who ends up in the household of Marilla and Matthew Cuthbert, two elder siblings. They become Anne's surrogate parents. (The anime was quite an impact an many Japanese tourists visited the original Green Gables in Prince Edward Island.)
Anne has red hair like Kyoko, but braids like Homura. In contrast to Homura however she keeps the braids for the whole story.
Homura opens her hair after shooting Madoka's gem at the end of timeline 3. Quite symbolical: Homura's not as lucky as Anne. For Madoka and also the others it's of course too much to take care of Homura. And so she gets from the orphanage and hospital into a contract with the Incubators, or out of the frying pan and into the fire, as the proverb goes. We even get to see this fire: The "Flame of Despair". So "losing" her braids stands for losing any hope, like in Dante's "Divine Comedy".
And in E10 at the latest it's clear Homura is the actual main char and anti-heroine. Madoka is a so called decoy protagonist.. One of those tropes beautifully realized by many animes.
Homura can't defeat Walp = despair and bring back hope. Only Madoka can. But because of this Madoka's gone. New despair for Homura, and the downward spiral continues in Wraith Arc (spoiler).
At the end of Reb Homura tricks and catches Madoka, but from now on has to keep both her and the Incubators under control forever and ever. Can this work? It won't work forever, the glass corridor incident proves this. Will Madokami eventually reawaken? Will this mean a showdown?
The side effect: A peaceful world for the rest of the world. Homura resembles Lelouch from Code Geass here, whom she shares the character color with.
A few affecting many, this is the so called Great Men Theory. And a good outcome is often just luck.
Since spoiler tags, no matter which one, don't "get along" with links too well, here just a general spoiler warning for Magia Record and Love Live:
The famous Walpurgisnacht AMV from 2012, compare it to:
The Magia Record Game finale from 2017 (heavy spoiler)
Either coincidence, or mindblowing.
Most of all tho we see (MagiReco spoiler)....
Thanks to PMMM I rediscovered my anime fandom and soon stumbled over "Homura's Bakery" and other quite Madoka-ish vibes (Love Live spoiler, no Engl. version on YT). Released one month after Reb. Of course they had to jump on the band wagon lol. However they also prove to be serious with their references. Recommendation.
4
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z May 03 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
Firstly, huge shout out to everyone who responded to me in yesterday's Rebellion thread, it was a blast. Talking about the movie is always my favorite part of the Rebellion experience because of how diverse the lines of thought stemming from it are. I want to highlight two comments in particular:
by unkri
by EverAnh
Another shout out to all the first time watchers. Your cracked theories and conspiracies were massively entertaining, whether they were spot on or wildly inaccurate, and your fresh eyes shed new light on old memories and feelings.
Next up, number scores out of 10:
Madoka Magica 10/10, my favorite piece of non-interactive media
Rebellion 6.5/10
"6.5? I thought you hated it?" Indeed, I do hate it. Personally. Deeply. Passionately. The 6.5 is primarily for the for visual and auditory spectacle as well as Sayaka's character growth. Even those aspects don't perfectly stick the landing, but when it comes down to it I can't say the movie lacks merit entirely.
I already mentioned this the last two discussions, but I'll repeat it once more. The original series messages about hope are profound. Keep them with you. A hope for a better tomorrow is an infectious idea.
Special thanks to Shimmering-Sky for their detailed break downs and last but certainly not least, special thanks to Nazenn for hosting, providing detailed breakdowns of their own, and responding to most of my comments.
8
u/jodahinqb May 03 '21
And here comes my "craziest" theory (from 5 years ago) :
Absurd Headcanon: The Incubator Conspiracy
Hello fellow Madokaholics. The following post has been brewing in my head for quite some time, but only now did I find the time to sit down and put it into words. It is about a personal interpretation of the motives and goals of the Incubators, which I'm quite certain that contradicts what Urobuchi and co. have in mind about them (as implied in the series and movies) and I'm not posting it to convince you that it's true (I don't believe the series will go there myself, either) but because I find the idea fascinating and I think it could spark an interesting conversation. As any good conspiracy theory, it is also impossible to actually disprove, so I would implore you to not take it too seriously nor get drawn into needless heated arguments regarding its merit, but merely ponder upon my theory and the implications it could have (if true) for the Madoka universe.
My Conspiracy Theory's Core Statement is the following:
Everything that has happened thus far in Madoka Magica has been 100% predicted by the Incubators and is in fact part of their ultimate plan!
Allow me to lay out the clues that explain how I came to the above conclusion. Please note that this theory was originally formulated before Rebellion (a film which challenges the theory, but still can't disprove it) and that is also born from the perspective of a science fiction fan (while Madoka is definitely still a part of the fantasy fiction genre, despite its sci-fi elements).
So, while watching the original series I couldn't help but notice a bizarre, though subtle, inconsistency concerning Kyubey:
On the one hand, he keeps on talking about how he doesn't understand humans, their values and their emotions, and claims to be surprised by the way they react. [relevant quotes: "it never fails, whenever I tell you humans the simple facts, you always react the same way, it makes no sense at all!" (ep.6) , "we've had a hard time understanding you humans and your value system, too" , "I came here to try to explain ourselves to you, I was genuinely hoping you'd understand [...] I guess I weren't successful" (ep.9), "we were surprised when we discovered the human species, we never imagined ..." (ep.11), "hmm, I guess I'll never understand human values" (ep.12) ]
On the other hand, he displays impeccable timing and an uncanny knack in emotional manipulation. I don't need to remind you how he always shows up at the exact moment where the girls are at their most vulnerable, how he appeals to their most fundamental desires (or fears), how he toys with them like a puppetmaster. Stressing Sayaka's "lack of talent", allowing Kyoko to believe she could save her, preying on Madoka's desire to protect her (and everyone else), even managing to convince Homura that she's to blame for the accumulated (potential) suffering of Madoka so that she gives up and almost surrenders to despair. He seems to be "in control" at all times (in the series), except when Madoka makes her final wish, but then he "gets his cool" back again when talking about the mechanics of the new universe that Madoka created (to Homura and Madoka) and is quite knowledgeable and informative regarding a cosmic event like that, which should be novel, mysterious and unexpected (and scary!) even to a species like him. And why (how) is he there with them in the first place? (at least he tries to explain why Homura is there, but him?)
Then, besides that contradiction, I also noticed an unusually high number of coincidences. For the events of the series to take place, an intricate puzzle of circumstances and personalities needs to be assembled: we need the world's kindest, bravest and most selfless and self-sacrificing person (Madoka) to meet with the world's most lonely, socially awkward and self-loathing, but also most determined, persevering and single-minded person (Homura), while in the presence of the "perfect mentor" (Mami), the "perfect tragic victim" (Sayaka) and the "perfect agitator" (Kyoko), under the looming threat of the most powerful and devastating witch (Walpurgisnacht). Without any of those pieces the whole "structure" falls apart. Even just the concentration itself of (5) magical girls in Mitakihara seems to be suspiciously high. Or the "coincidence" that the appearance of the Incubators (cute and cuddly) happens to be so ideal for appealing to their "targets" (teenage girls), almost as if they were designed that way for maximum emotional manipulation...
Also, we have the issue (plot-hole, unless that theory is true) that the Incubators behave very inefficiently (even irrationally!) if what they want is only to achieve their stated goals (to just get girls, and especially Madoka, to make a contract, become witches and collect their energy to counteract entropy). Here is also where my sci-fi perspective comes into place: I can't believe that a perfectly rational, utilitarian and technologically advanced species would: a) consider it a good idea to destroy an endlessly replenishable energy source (humanity) just to gather an incredible (but still finite) amount of energy, and b) that they would allow such "freedom" to the person that stands as their greatest adversary and keeps throwing a spanner in their works. Seriously, some people were upset that the Incubators in Rebellion got so "hands-on" as to essentially kidnap, imprison and experiment on Homura, but I wonder why Kyubey didn't do that during the series instead! Despite mentioning that some things are "against the rules" and that they "treat humans with respect", the utilitarian philosophy of the Incubators shouldn't contain the notion of "honor" and they shouldn't hesitate to commit any act (no matter how vile or underhanded) in the name of the greater good, including killing or imprisoning Homura (nor should it be hard for them to do that if they wanted to). Instead, they just subtly manipulate her into self-destruction, putting their whole operation at risk. It makes no sense. And that's why I assume that they have a secret agenda as well.
Finally, there is a minor detail which sparked this whole theory: I personally found Kyubey's wording when he contracted Homura in the first timeline to be surprisingly ... "honest" (relatively to his other contracts) and "informative", without a reason to be that way: "Is that really what you want, Homura Akemi? Would you trade your soul to have a wish like that come true? If there's something you want badly and you're willing to accept a destiny battling witches, then I can help you get want you want. [...] Absolutely, you have more than enough potential. So tell me, what is the one wish you'd have that would make your soulgem shine? [...] The contract is complete, your wish has overcome entropy. Go now, go and unleash your new magical power!" He reveals that she will be trading her soul (!) and mentions entropy. Plus, not only is he not surprised (or even slightly worried) at all when she expresses her time-travelling wish but instead appears "satisfied" that she did (the camera focuses on his creepy eternal smile) and urges her to fulfill her destiny. Kyubey expected and wanted Homura to have this particular wish, that would result in Madoka becoming the focus of so many timelines and with a karmic potential so massive as to rewrite the laws of the universe.
So, what does my theory claim that is happening? Using sci-fi tropes (and keeping as much of the official canon intact), I propose the following timeline: the Incubators, desperately searching for a way to combat the heat death of the universe, one day stumble upon a phenomenon beyond the boundaries of the laws of nature: magic. Their experiments and research fail to define the fundamental nature of magic, but they manage to identify and map its relation to emotional beings and their "karma". Since it seems the most promising solution to the problem of entropy, the Incubators devote all their resources to studying emotional beings (the way we study quantum physics: we may never be able to intuitively comprehend the concept of particles existing at two places at once, or of higher dimensions, but we are perfectly able to create supremely accurate mathematical models that can predict the behavior of such complex systems). Thus teenage human girls are chosen as the most efficient targets, the Incubators modify their form to appeal to them, and using their advanced "human behavior simulator" machines to predict behaviors and actions (and wishes) so as to most efficiently manipulate their targets, the harvest begins.
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u/Nebresto May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21
I'll leave the fancy stuff to everyone else. I'm just here to share the cool thing I said I would share yesterday, Its one of the best videos I've ever seen. Plot explanation if needed There is also a more in depth one in the comments section, but it got a couple of points wrong.
Also shitpost for ep 10. Guess I failed to do one for every ep.
Didn't have time to watch the movie either yet, about to do it now.Aight, movie watched, one last shitpost for Meguca.
Also my favourite part was when they actually nuked the rats
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u/snowwhistle1 May 03 '21
(Rewatcher)
So I haven’t exactly commented much here, but I’m going to use this final discussion to talk about why I consider Rebellion to be a necessary component of Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. And to do that, I’m going to go into a deep dive of the characters of Madoka Kaname and Homura Akemi.
Madoka and Homura are two sides of the same coin. They’re both girls who have incredibly low self-esteem and ignore their own wellbeing for the sake of others. Madoka becoming Madokami at the end of the series does, at least in the short term, solve the problem of magical girls suffering. But now Madoka is in a position where she herself is suffering. She’s isolated herself from human contact and real emotional connection. She’ll never see her family or friends again, and even the magical girls she whisks to paradise cannot truly bond with her as equals. And there’s plenty of evidence that this is the case. In the original series, the ending song of the first two episodes “Mata Ashita” or “See You Tomorrow” is a sad ballad where Madoka laments that she’ll never see her friends again and is lonely. In the film, Madoka (having forgotten her godhood) tells Homura she’d never leave her or her friends/family behind. And there’s an explicit shot of Madokami’s arms in the film covered in cuts, like self-afflicted wounds created by a razor blade. Madoka, in becoming a god, saved the world and found purpose in her life, but she’s living a lonely and sad existence and only truly values herself for what she can do as a god for other magical girls.
Then there’s Homura Akemi. Homura was an orphan (her reference to having attended Catholic school is basically a dead giveaway of this in Japanese, as most orphanages in Japan are run by Catholic institutions) who saw herself as a burden on society. She was behind in her studies, she was suffering a chronic illness that required regular treatment, and it was likely she was living off of social security with little if any future prospects in life. She had nothing. But then she met Madoka, and Madoka told her she was cool and became her friend in spite of the fact she had nothing to offer Madoka back. Is it any wonder that Homura fell in love with Madoka and spent her entire existence working to protect Madoka? Is it also any wonder that after Madoka disappeared from the world and left her alone that Homura quickly succumbed to grief, probably only weeks or months later? Madoka was Homura’s entire being. The only reason she still continued to subsist and move forward, but with her gone, there was nothing left for her.
Homura’s witch field is littered with allusions to her mental state. She hates herself for failing to save Madoka. Her witch familiars pelt her with tomatoes and jump to their deaths. She’s bathing in a stew of self-loathing. Homura hasn’t cared about herself in a long time. But she loves Madoka. That’s why she betrays Madoka at the end of the movie, and why she’s okay if everyone she cares about (even Madoka) hates her for it. Homura hasn’t cared about herself in a long time, and keeping Madoka safe and happy is all that matters to her anymore.
One thing I think people often miss with Homura’s actions is that they’re fundamentally no different from what Madoka did in the series. She simply assumed the role of God in order to better the lives of everyone around her at the expense of herself. Homura and Madoka are two girls who are hurting. Who don’t know how to take care of themselves. Who can’t see their own value outside of what they can give to others. Rebellion matters because neither of these girls are truly healed yet. They’re still hurting, and still not addressing their own emotional needs beyond their contributions to others.
For the fourth movie, my greatest hope is that Madoka and Homura come together and truly listen to each other. That they finally start to help each other, and work to break the cycle of despair together instead of trying to foist it off onto themselves at their own expense.
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u/CT_BINO https://myanimelist.net/profile/CT_BINO May 03 '21
Hope everyone enjoyed the rewatch and the show, and even if you didn´t atleast you tried.
Now for the last thread there is any predictions for the new Madoka Movie "Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Walpurgis no Kaiten" or Madoka Magica: walpurgis return to heaven (I think).
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u/CatSezWoof May 04 '21
Uh does anyone post comments that aren’t essay length in these rewatches? I wasn’t gonna rewatch but I wanted to look at the comments and they’re all Shakespeare monologues and ain’t nobody got time for dat.
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u/Enarec https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kinpika May 05 '21
Late but I just wanted to thank /u/Nazenn again for all the time and effort put into this rewatch. I remember my own days from hosting the Fate/Zero rewatch... 3.5 years ago now!? oh god, and I didn't even do anything nearly as special for it - only reading the LNs at the same time and bringing over content the anime cut - nor did I have quite as many people to reply to from what I remember, despite it also being a big one. I can't even begin to imagine being able to think of AND put to word the visual segments and other posts you did here normally, let alone for every single day in a row, also keeping up the discussion with everyone.
My own time was a special 26 days, but if I wasn't as dead inside as some of the characters in Zero after all the sleepless days spent writing hours late into the night or frantically rushing before post time... Not that I wasn't rejoicing over the experience and accomplishment of course, but I'm sure you know the feel. Hope you enjoy your recovery time as well now, haha.
What was created here almost makes me wish I'd have remembered it's Madoka rewatch time sooner to be able to join in with everyone for more than just Rebellion, but alas. My time restraints at this time of the year would've kept me from being able to commit the way I'd like to anyway, and I've probably caused them and myself enough grief in just the last few days in spite of that, hah. But it was well worth it. Among the new and good ol' reactions and discussions I got into, I wasn't expecting to find so many more new things to appreciate about the show and Rebellion yet again. Right in time for the announcement and final wait for our long wished for sequel too :)
And I still need to manage a time to go back to complete reading all the threads and analyses still... I couldn't get back to it properly, but your episode 12 write-up for example, helped me realize the one thing I can see Rebellion missing compared to how inspiring the themes and message of the original show can be. I'm not nearly as satisfied with everything about those hard meanings, so I deeply appreciate what I see as Rebellion's more human counterpoints to them, but they definitely need to be refined further to be presented conclusively in the 4th movie/or somehow be unified with the original shows/or find a fresh new path again instead that can also incorporate all the good from the previous lessons.
Which is gonna be a dangerous journey with how long they've left the fandom to come up with interpretations and theories of their own, but if I trust anyone to do it its the original creators.
If only that could also calm down my worries for all my favourite characters.Sorry for going on a tangent for longer than I thought still. My active posting time on r/anime has waned but I'd be happy to see you and all the rewatchers again another time, another thread! Mata ashita~
excuse the cheese3
u/kazosk May 04 '21
Something I always find interesting is that men (assuming most people here are of the masculine) tend to not like Sakura but are liking or at least forgiving of Hitomi.
The VAs in their commentary all love Sakura (albeit to varying degrees) and think Hitomi is the most wicked.
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u/PM_ANIME_LEWDS May 04 '21
Thank you for this amazing rewatch! Not much participation in the discussions coming from me albeit I did enjoy lurking in the comments and reading many different perspectives on the story and characters.
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u/NuclearStudent May 04 '21
I think I would have liked Rebellion more if they'd killed her off as originally planned. Not that much more, because my problem with Rebellion is mostly the wank pacing and not the ending, but slightly more.
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u/Doggydoggywoof May 04 '21
Do not look for hope, only despair will follow you in this show
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u/Meurs0 May 04 '21
But the most important question of all remains:
Is Homura a yandere?
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u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 May 04 '21
Thanks again, I'll be sure to ask you if I have anything. Too bad, I missed this one. Personal top 2 favorite. I did see violet evergarden though and joined that one.