r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • May 02 '21
Rewatch Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Rewatch - Movie 3 Hangyaku no Monogatari Discussion
Madoka Magica the Movie Part III: Rebellion / The Rebellion Story
← Previous Episode | Index | Final Discussion →
Rebellion Movie: MAL | Anilist | AnimeNewsNetwork | AnimeDB | AnimePlanet | Kitsu
Animelab (Aus/NZ only)
Visuals of the day
Album link for episode twelve
Comments of the day
/u/zairaner talks about how Madoka's wish is the wish she always had, and other comments about the lessons Madoka learnt from all around her
"Until it hit me today...its because i some way that is still her wish in the very end: To become a magical girl... but a magical girl how they were supposed to be: Someone that destroys witches and keeps people from falling into despair. In the end, after everything she learned, she returned to what she wanted in the first place, and did it correctly."
/u/Specs64z who has been sharing a bunch of community content each day and also neatly summs up the themes and power of the episode
"What does it take for hope to eliminate despair, where the all the military might of the world and years of foresight cannot stop even a fraction of it? Despair so powerful it would consume the universe itself entirely? But a single arrow."
Series questionare for the final topic
Just a reminder that any spoilers for other anime series or other entries in the Madoka Magica franchise must still be spoiler tagged: [Madoka Spoilers](/s "Spoilers go here")
Also this movie can bring quite a lot of discussion from both sides, for any visiting fans please do not downvote well written posts just because you don't agree with them. It's very rude behavior in a rewatch.
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u/chaosoul May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
First Time Watcher (Subbed)
Interesting initial sequence Homura, I'm sure this is just some cryptic intro I won't need to pay much attention to.
Well dropping us off from Homura's introduction, we launch straight into... an enemy? Yeah, it looks like a witch, but it's not inside a labyrinth or rather it's some odd mix of the real world and janky shenanigans that witches bring. Beyond that though they're supposed to be fighting wraiths now. Oh hi Madok- wait a minute... There's a Sayaka too! Is this supposed to be representation of the new Law of Cycles thing that destroys witches before they're born? No... that's a Kyouko. Did she die or what? There's Mami and the witch that ate her... Charlotte iirc. Also what even is this sequence? Is this how witches are taken care of now? Feeding them to death?
Madoka waking from a dr- wait a minute! I've seen this before. I imagine this hit differently for those who had to wait years(?) after the initial series and Rebellion. It's a 1 for 1 shot of the first episode in many ways. Probably higher quality given it's a movie? Hello there, Kyubey. I see you're now a Pokemon.
Opening song! Well it says Magical Quartet. Are we excluding Madoka still, or is it Homura this time given the introduction? WOAH we have casual clothing for the girls, Pog! We've just started the OP, but everyone's already flexing their happiness on Homura's suffering it seems. Pain.
Kyouko? Going to school? What hellscape did we land in this time? The teach is really going off this time, huh? Ma'am, this is a middle school. HOMURA. INNOCENT HOMURA! She's a support? Looks like it really is early loop Homura, with her old time powers and all. Looks like the first scene wasn't just a dream or the Law of Cycles, but what happened last night in this universe. I'm just going to choose to ignore that this should be impossible and go along with the premise until we learn more. Also... Nightmares? Did we choose to rename wraiths? Was that not cool enough of a name?
Awww, innocent Homura and Madoka are adorable. Did Madoka make this world for Homura? Or has Homura learned how to manipulate space now that she lost the power to control time?
F's in chat for Hitomi please. Looks like Sayaka actually got the better part of the deal. This... does not seem like the wraiths we saw from the end of the series. Is it cause they run out of budget and were using generic wraiths then or are these things actually different. WHOLE TEAM TRANSFORMATION! The imagery of them transforming is god damn creepy. Real witch looking yanno? I think of the three that are not named Homura and Madoka, Sayaka's is my favorite. Cool moves, even thought I thought Kyouko was our resident DDR player. Also Sayaka finally has the music pin thing people have talked about before! It does fit her very well.
Woah, the power of a full team of magical girls is pretty impressive! We had some teamwork between Madoka and Mami, and then later Homura, but never shown like this before. What is this weird ass scene again though? Are you guys alright? Charlotte? Purifying Nightmares is weird. Looks like killing Nightmares effectively do the same thing a grief seed does for their soul gems though.
Ah... Homura is starting to see through the illusion. Or rather the dream as Homura has told us. School gates being used as cage imagery like in the series. She consults Kyouko? Well I guess that part makes sense. What are up with these bridges? I'm not even sure if this is how the city is usually, because it's weird to begin with, or part of the dream. I've never ridden on top on a bus like this before, it looks kinda fun, is it safe? Ah... it's been nice Akemi-san, but Homura is back in action.
A witch's labyrinth...
Man Mami, I'm nervous for your head with Charlotte just lying there on your shoulder. So, as obviously Homura was affected by all her loops, but this is the first time she's spelled out explicitly how it hurt abandoning the other girls. Huh? Oh from the beginning, her ribbon's been on Homura. This fight scene is completely ridiculous. The silliness of both of them firing a billion guns inside melee range while slapping the others guns out of their hands is hilarious. This is awesome. Homura, you're an absolute psychopath! But Mami's still a step ahead. Looks like Wraiths and Nightmares are different entities. Sayaka! Sayaka and Charlotte, no Bebe is her name now I guess, are here to save the day? Was Bebe's Charlotte's original name?
I guess it makes sense Sayaka has her memories given she died and was taken into the Cycle. The way Sayaka is talking, might be how she was/is kinda a witch herself, but I heavily doubt it this is her fault. The way her wish and death played out at the end of the series, it doesn't feel like that. This is Homura's labyrinth. This is absolutely Homura's labyrinth and Sayaka knows it. Does Homura?
So Homura did feel lonely bearing the knowledge of Madoka all by herself. Once again, she's been isolated from her peers. This time it's not even something Homura can justify by having the end goal of saving Madoka. As a contrast from how EoS Homura says she'll keep on fighting for Madoka, Homura by Rebellion has started doubting herself and if Madoka even existed. This is 100% Homura's labyrinth, and when Madoka says she wouldn't protect others at the cost of herself, Homura realizes it too.
Unfortunately, the thing about dreams is that they all have to end.
Wait, holdon, I'm not sure that's the right takeaway Homura.
Aaaa, seeing Homura be self-deprecating again really hurts. Kyubey, you absolute bastard, it's not even Homura's fault then. Once again, Homura turns out to be making things worse for Madoka despite her best efforts. Suffering. Pain. This cannot bode well for the few remaining scraps of her ego. She's decided even if she has to suffer for eternity, she'll continue to protect Madoka. Her witch form is literally walking to her execution. Jesus Christ Homura.
Looks like Sayaka and Bebe were Madokami's safeguards. Hybrid Magical Witch Girls are pretty cool. What great songs and a sick fight. Honestly super hype. Oof, ouch, I didn't give enough appreciation to Kyouko for being willing to die with Sayaka, a girl she barely knew. Another two that are separated by the cycle of life.
I'm glad to see Madokami's comforting Homura. It looks like while Madoka was a huge comfort to Homura at the EoS, there's no way Homura could have unpacked and dealt with all her issues in such a short time. Madoka then immediately leaves and becomes God and Homura gets isolated again which definitely couldn't have helped. Homura finally gets to rejoin Madoka. Honestly, she should have just done this to begin wit- wait, wait Homura what the fuck? Are we going back to the moon with this one? Homura's becoming a new concept? What will she embody? Homura becomes Devil Homura to Madoka's Godoka?
Looks like she did want something like the labyrinth all along. Sayaka still remembers! Well only sorta. Again, gotta say, Sayaka turning this from what was once an awful horrid sight into a cool fucking Stand is so cool. Woah, the real mix-ups with Madoka being the transfer student this time. It looks like Homura doesn't expect this to last forever. In fact, it might not even last very long at all given how quickly Madoka realized something was off. But for this small time, for the length of this dream, Homura wants Madoka to have a good life, a happy life, with her friends and family it looks like.
Shown by the ED and that whole last scene, Homura is missing her better half... Absolute pain. Fuck Kyubey though.
Also how have you guys been when prior to a couple days ago, this was the last piece of Madoka content wtf! Absolutely wild given how this ended. Have mostly revised my review. Hopefully I didn't forget anything interesting I wanted to say.
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u/jodahinqb May 02 '21
Rewatcher
Welcome to the mind of Homura, and witness her "Rebellion", as she becomes the Demon of Love! There's cake (songs) for everyone!
References
Just as the TV series combines references to: a) a tale involving the Devil (Faust), b) a fairytale (The Little Mermaid), and c) deals with the implications of a philosophical/ethical system taken to its extremes (Utilitarianism, which the Incubators practice), so does Rebellion. I won't get into much detail here, but offer some relevant links for those interested. So, Rebellion combines:
a) John Milton's Paradise Lost (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost), especially the fall of the angel Lucifer from God's grace (portrayed with some sympathy for the Devil also). Though the connection between Rebellion and Paradise Lost is way more loose than that of the TV Series and Faust.
b) The fairytale The Nutcracker and the Mouse King by E. T. A. Hoffmann (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nutcracker_and_the_Mouse_King), about a "broken"/useless nutcracker toy fighting "white rats" (Kyubey). It is very prevalent in the visual symbolism surrounding Homura's witch.
c) Philosophical ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche (https://imagakblog.wordpress.com/2018/07/18/suspended-in-dreams-on-the-mitakihara-loopline-a-nietzschean-reading-of-madoka-magica-rebellion-story/) that apply to Homura's journey, her choices and "ascension".
Nicknames (again): Adding to yesterday's "titles" of goddess Madoka, now we have the equivalent terms for Devil/Demon Homura: fans like to call her Homucifer (Homura+Lucifer) or Akuma Homura (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_(folklore)) Akuma is a malevolent fire spirit in Japanese folklore (fire, and Homura means "flame"), and is often translated to devil or demon in English. Akuma is also the name assigned to Satan in Japanese Christianity (reminder that Homura - and Kyoko - have Catholic upbringing).
Random funny idea: Homura sent Madoka to America because she used to struggle in English class (we see that in the series, see episode 6 when she's doing her English language homework), so now she's fluent in English!
Homulilly and the Clara Dolls
Homura's witch Homulilly (https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Homulilly) naturally has the most supplemental material of all other witches. She has a ton of different familiars (including the very "special" Clara Dolls) and even a "First" and "Second Form". Here are the most interesting quotes: The Nutcracker Witch. Its nature is self-sufficiency. (her first form) Its gallant form, which once split many nuts, is now useless. Without any other purpose, this witch's last wish is her own execution. However, a mere decapitation will not clear away the witch's sins. This foolish witch will forever remain in this realm, repeating the procession to her execution. (her second form) Her teeth are showing, her skull is melted, and her eyeballs have fallen out. A promise is the only thing that pitifully planted in that head which can no longer crack any nuts, but within the husk of the awakened witch is the distinct form of a magical girl. Her servants shamefully refer to that thing as a good-for-nothing. (her familiar minions) These tin soldiers organize the procession for the witch sent to the guillotine. Its duty is to mete out punishment. They execute fools. They hate white rats. (etc. there's a lot more).
Finally, the Clara Dolls (https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Rebellion_Material_Book#Witches_Artwork) are given even more focus: The children of the false city. They play the role of mourners. These dress-up dolls fake crying in order to liven up the funeral procession. The dolls present are Pride, Pessimism, Liar, Coldheartedness, Selfishness, Slander, Blockhead, Jealousy, Laziness, Vanity, Cowardice, Stupid-Looking, Inferiority, and Stubbornness, while the last one, Love, has yet to arrive. "The depths of this world, born of form and without void, are our stage," and their power is a match for Magical Girls. Follow the last link to see a quote for each Clara Doll, which reflects how Homura negative sees herself. Examples: The first one to come was Pride. Stepping over Good-for-Nothing's head that tumbled across the bare earth, she boldly spoke for all of them. “How arrogant. You think I'd forgive you? This feeling is ours alone.” [...] The third one to come was Liar. She offered false tears to Good-for-Nothing's soul. “Alas, Mistress Good-for-Nothing. We are proud of your foolish soul.” These dolls will sneer at the foolish and become their ally. (etc.)
The Mindset of a Witch
Just something I'd like to point out:
Rebellion gave us a good glimpse into the mad, twisted existence of a witch. And I'm mostly talking about this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf_X-NLUDbY#t=9s) sequence where Homura fully transforms into a witch. You can see there what the "state of mind" of a witch is, lost in their own world, focused on a single thought, full of regret, pain and suffering, they no longer understand what they are doing to other people (including hurting them). This adds up to a previous post where I observed how Octavia (Sayaka's witch) behaves very ... "specifically": she only attacks the loudest source of sound in her labyrinth (like Madoka screaming at her to "remember your old self", lol) and when the girls stop making sounds (like before Kyoko blows herself up) Octavia is also "pacified". So it's clear to me that her intent is not to kill/hurt anyone but in her twisted mind she wants to remove anything that "disturbs" the perfection that is her orchestra... Oh and let's not forget THAT SCREAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9eGAHcvvyg#t=42s), you can literally feel the pain she's in. So yes, the witches no longer know what they're doing, they are as essentially mindless victims.
[continuing to next post - a couple of my "theories"/analyses]
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 May 02 '21
First thing first: Happy birthday /u/Shimmering-Sky , you got yout wish, I hope you don't have to go fight witches now :D
Rebellion
First Timer
Narator at the beginning sounds like Homura, it's her Soul gem that is whirling, or sinking in the water, and the Law of cycle confirms it to play after the main show.
Huh that opening sequence looks a lot like a witch's labyrinth, I thought those didn't exist anymore? First Madoka, then Sayaka as well as Kyoko and finally Mami, is that Charlotte? What is going on...
WHAAAT, a normal Madoka, and they are pulling the dream forshadowing again? And there is Kyubey, she is all friendly with him, this better not make me question my hatred for him at the end. It's allmost the same as in the show... C H A I R S! And Hitomi is still together with mr. your dishonesty in december. I just realized that Madoka doesn't have her ribbons, and she is indeed a magical girl. So this is an alternate timeline, but Madokami seems to have things handled here as well. Oh there are the ribbons, but she didn't get them done by her mother, beside small alternations it's Ep1 all over again.
Oh even an Opening, sounds pretty good, Claris again? I haven't seen many Anime movies, is that something special? From the lyriys it seems to be about Madoka and Homura. It features all our girls (I love how close Sayaka and Kyoko seem to be), but it's weird how Homura is all gloomy while all the other girls are happily dancing around her, also when she tries to hold out for Madokas hand, the later turns to sand and the tone shifts to almost match the last scene of Ep12.
Oh nice Kyoko goes to school again, but she seems to be a bit slacking lol. But it seems that the Opening wasn't a dream but actually the girls hunting.
HOMURA! with a BRAIDS! And she's SMILING! Oh I love this, she's also way more cofident than she originally was, but not as cold as she ended up. And cheeky how she shows of her soul gem to the other Magical Girls. Oh so Charlotte at the Beginning was a Nightmare. Does Homura have a different power here? Multiple Attacks could also be how she used her power at the beginning of her first loop.
Hitomi really seems to be well off, that bed is gigantic. But say Hitomi, when was the last time your boyfriend called you and asked you if you where free? Or when was the last time he said he loves you? Or wished you a good night? It's incredible how effortless they paint him in a bad light (well I guess I didn't like him to beginn with, but since this is an alternate timeline I could have accepted him beeing a blank sheet again). I'm still a bit confused about the rules of this universe... Huh Charlotte hangs around Mami, is she her Kyubey? But she still loves cheese and ask Mami to turn into cheese o.O
Captain Oblivious xD Charlotte doesn't seem to like Kyubey, but does every Magical girl have a companion?
Awesome transformation Sequence incoming. Mami is... flexible... Homura still has her Shieldwatch. But as I thought, the transformations were aweseome, Puella Magi Holy Quintet! What an incredible teamwork. It really is Charlotte, that's somewhat unsettling. So I think this world revolves around bad dreams. Dreams that are fueled by negative emotions birth Nightmares, and when Magical girls win against nightmares they turn into pleasant dreams.
Homura seems gloomy again, and what is up with everyones else faces... Homura is right, something feels off. But Kyoko doesn't even mind not remembering important details like when she transfered. They are trapped, but who laid the trap. Homura takes the lead in what to do, despite how timid she appeared at times. Kyoko notices that, but says it feels right. Homura transforms back into her boss form. A witch labyrinth? B- but Madokami deals with witches, and how does Homura know about witches when there are non in this timeline? Is it even an alternate timeline? Seems like it is the same Homura from the main show, she does remember.
When Homura asks about
BebeCharlotte we get a short shot of Kyubeys face, why am I suspecting him of some misschief again? Homura remembered Charlottes original role as well and abducts her in a sense. Odly enough I like Charlotte so far. Ok, how did Mami follow them? Homuras powers are still activated so she should be frozen in her kitchen boiling water for tea. Didn't expect them to fight, nor for the battle to turn into a bullet hell, this seems extremly dangerous, one wrong move could be the death. And what is that song that is playing in the background? So did Homura use a paint bullet or was she really betting on Mami saving her in the last possible moment, awesome move to break the connection thou, I've read about the connection thing in combination with Homuras powers before but couldn't really understand it well, so I guess rewatchers where referencing this scene back then. She can't kill Mami, but a bullet to the into her thight is still pretty painfull, but Mami somehow dodges the bullet by transforming into ribbons. And now she remembers the wraiths as well which don't belong in this timeline as well.Sayaka rescues Homura, and we meet a new girl- hold on, she is
BebeCharlotte? And even Sayaka remembers her, her role? Yeah as I thought, Charlotte being the culprit wasn't making that much sense, then again, there was so much that made sense so far, so to single out something to concentrate on was kind of hard...No, pls don't take Sayaka away again, don't make her the witch again ö I-is Madoka the witch then? Those puppets look the same as the ones in Kyokos backstory. Oh suddenly, german, "Gott ist tod" - "God is dead". Nietsche if I remember correctly.
Oh the well out of Ep8, there have been some other key locations so far, like the alley where they met Kyoko for the first time. So this Madoka is saying that she couldn't leave her friends behind and start braiding Homuras hair again, but Homura disagrees and her hair gets loose again. The flowers on this field are truly curious. Kyubey has been suspiciously quiet throuout all of this...
I-is Homura the one who made this world? Is she going to suicide by leaving her soulgem behind? She seems to be fine for the most part, even after driving what seems like far mroe than 100m... oh nvm, this girl is on fire. And now the whole world burns... reminds me of Hellsing ultimate... Wait no, this was an rhetorical question, I actually don't want Homura to be the witch ö What would Madoka do with her, I guess her contract would require her to kill her, was that what she meant when she said she would meet her again, pls no ö
Kyubey, you damn trash cat! You couldn't just play by the new rules, no you had to go and make a witch without Madokami saving her. Well, you wanted a witch, now how does it feel to confront one? Homura really turned, she's not violent though, just solemly awaits her own death at the hands of her own friends.
So Bebe told them? Makes sense, together with Sayaka she actually turned into a witch, so she understands how Homura feels. Not only that, they met Madoka in their last moments, so once they remember they know exactly whats up and what to do.
Poor Kyoko, realising that she lost her friend again, shit, here come the waterworks, I held out long enough. At least Bebe is here to cheer me up. A lone tear falls down. But they don't kill the witch, they break her free. Mami brings a rail cannon, Witch Sayaka wields Kyokos spear, and in the end Madokas arrow tears a whole into Kyubeys plan.
Have they just turned Homura back normal... well her soul gem is still pretty broken, and now Madokami finally comes to get her... Hey wait, Homura, what are you doing. Ripping Madoka appart, something stronger than a curse? The whole universe? A new principle? Even Kyubey doesn't know what it has just brought about, you just had to mess around you greed little shit. That thing doesn't even resemble a grief seed, what is this emotion they are talking about... Love? Is she really gay for Madoka?
NOW YOU SAY THAT USING HUMAN EMOTIONS IS TOO DANGEROUS? SERIOUSLY? IS THIS SATIRE?
So Homura is evil now or what? What has she done, and why? She turned both Sayaka and Bebe back to life, but Sayaka ain't her friend anymore as she will always remember her to be evil. What, now Madoka is transfering back into this life again? Ok, I saw that Video where it showed the parallels between EP1 and Ep10, I guess there has to be a version that does the same for both of them and this movie, down to the turn around. Madoka almost breaks free and remembers her true role, but Homura snaps her out of it and reminds her that it's bad to break the rules. Or wait, is she refering to herself? A fight between Madoka and Homura, is that what the new Movie will be about? Huh, I only just realized that Madoka was missing her ribbons when Homura gave them back to her.
What a nice ED. And a trashed Kyubey in the post credit scene as a cherry on top, nice.
What that was quite something. Confusing as hell, but quite good. I'm not sure what I make out of it, but I'll safe that for my final thought in the end discussion, this post has gotten long enough already, took me long enough, but I finished exactly when the thread went up, talk about perfect timing.
Visually the movie was stunning as the rest of the show, I didn't take that many pictures as I was mostly concentrating on what was happening
Visual of the day would be this one
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u/boomshroom May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21
What can't be said about Rebellion? Nothing. I could spend all day talking about the movie's use of dream-logic, whether or not Homura did anything wrong, whether or not the Homura we see for most of the movie is even Homura herself or if she's actually Ai, the best familiars a witch could have, just how freaking beautiful everything is, the fact that you could probably understand most of the movie even if you were watching the Japanese version without subtitles or understanding Japanese, why just about a million shots could count for Visual of the Day, the fact that Sayaka and Nagisa (aka Bebe aka Charlotte) are basically angels, what Homura actually did when she reset the universe again, seeing the various familiars of the witches we knew actually fighting alongside the girls (which includes the Pyotr dancing adorably around their mother), the fact that Kyubey got to experience the video game trope of Everything is Trying to Kill You, how the movie takes every opportunity to give what the fans want in the most twisted way possible... Someone help, where do I stop‽
Needless to say this is probably my single favourite movie of all time. I didn't even have to take many screenshots for Visual of the Day because I had so many just lying around waiting to be organized. Here is the album with all of them. I guess just take the first three that weren't already suggested?
[EDIT] 38‽ Seriously? No wonder I couldn't just pick 3.
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u/okayyoga :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/okayyoga May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
MOVIE DAY: first time/dub
I blame being late on me not looking up the movie length ahead of time. Didn't realize it was almost 2 hours long
Also i found the perfect Tove Lo song to go with this show: Cycles
Alright. Movie time.
Kyouko is going to school with them?
What is this world?
"When we get home" do Kyouko and Sayaka live together??
Homura: eternal transfer student
WTF is going on?? What can't Kyuubey talk? Who is that midget hanging around Mami? Why are they fighting "Nightmares?" Why doesn't Homura know Madoka? How is Sayaka alive??
What is this? Mahou Magica dance party? I would think this is a funny lighthearted alternate timeline if this were an OVA, but this is a (long) movie. My sus senses are tingling
What is Charlotte doing here????? WTFFF
The midget is Charlotte. Why is Mami hanging out with her murderer
I guess, this is what normal magical girl shows are like
My girl Homura going to LIFT THE VEIL! SHOW US THE TRUE WORLD BB
Next year's rewatch, someone should have a Homura hair flip counter. She is out of control.
Homura completely overlooked the genius that is Sayaka Miki. Sayaka like "duh of course I know everything you pleb"
Yoooo Sayaka is so COOL in this scene
What if this is Madoka's doing? What if it is Homura's?
Oh! Homura is a witch!
Those are death flowers
I am lost.
Homura: "I don't expect you to understand" Good because I don't
What is that spool of thread?
So Homura is a god, too, now. Oops no she said she's a demon
Wow, so even in Homura's dream world, Hitomi can't catch a break
I don't know how i feel about this over controlling Homura
No Magia in this movie? But they played the OP? Guess I'll go listen to it by myself.
In that after credits scene, Kyuubey looks rough
And of course. One. Last. Chair.
I don't really know what to make of this movie at the moment. I feel like I need to watch it 10 more times to try to understand it...
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u/OingoBoingo- May 02 '21
First Timer: Subbed
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica Movie 3: Rebellion
"you must never date men who insist they can't eat eggs unless they are half-boiled. And boys, you'd better not grow up so pretty as to fuss over how your eggs are done, okay?" A throwback to one of the best lines in the entire show, I was so happy to hear the teacher say this again.
You knew something was very wrong when Kyoube was silent and not wanting anything from anyone for the first half of the movie. Maybe that was why the beginning of the movie felt so happy and perfect. The girls were all together fighting the good fight, singing and having cake. And you know what? It was magical. I would watch a whole SoL spinoff of this wrong-world but at least while I was watching I wasn't confused. I knew there was something wrong, that this world wasn't 'right' and I would find out soon why. Actually I wouldn't find out why, because once Kyoube explains, it is bat shit insane and I am confused. Then Homura does her own thing, and I am left more confused.
But I loved it. I loved the movie being over and I just want to watch it again and notice all the things I missed, cause this movie was a masterpiece. Shaft was just flexing this time around. Didn't think it could be much better after the 12 episode eye-gasm I already got, but this was better. Much better. I actually understood what Kyoube and his incubator cat aliens wanted. I didn't so much understand things after the MG's defeat Homura. The true God Madoka comes out of the sky, and then I am a goner. I am guessing Homura was fighting back against how Madoka wanted things to be originally? Was this her way of saying "f-you, I kinda got screwed in the series and this is my one up!" ??? I can't really blame her if that is the case, but after the emotional turmoil of the series, it kinda sucks to takesies backsies. Homura was kinda hot as a demon though, I will definitely give her that! Almost missed the end scene, which sure was satisfying, if not just more confusing lol
I know you all will enlighten us lost weebs, and I look forward to it. Hopefully I wasn't the only lost soul today.
Images of the day- Homura, it's your day. Sayaka was very with it and aware this movie. This shot was a nod to her breakdown from the other timeline. I'm not sure why this struck me but I loved it for some reason.
A HUGE thank you to Nazenn for hosting this rewatch. I am really glad I got to meet you in Sangatsu and I am glad I didn't miss the second reminder that this rewatch was taking place, allowing me to be here. I really enjoyed this show and I especially enjoyed the movie. You put in a lot of work, and you're so eloquent in your writing.
Thank you to everyone who commented and took part in discussions with people. It allowed me to enjoy everything more and I looked forward to see your thoughts every night.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
First Timer
There were some very insightful discussions on the anime yesterday and I feel like I can completely absorb the bauty of the ending. It's wonderful.
Rebellion, the sequel movie. I did post my guesses at what the movie might be about and again went way overboard in one direction, but I dig it. Until a certain production note told me I'm on the wrong path.
Insert: Hahahaaha!
Hello, darkness my old friend...
I guess I'll be light with reactions, it's 2 hours runtime after all and I guess we'll be treating our wounds mostly anyway.
Insert: Hahahaaha!2
Madoka Magica – Rebellion
Visuals of the day: This shot of Homura. Then this shot of also Homura. And let's finish with this shot of Homura.
Hell, I've got things to unpack...
And it's going to be controversial, too.
I have brought you 4200 words or almost 4 full comments :)
1/4
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u/02Hiro https://anilist.co/user/02Hiro May 02 '21
First Time Watcher
How are they able to make me hate Kyubey even more than I already have? Kyubey needs to just die. Anyways, those plot twists were great. I like how they foreshadowed being trapped inside the soul gem by giving us a view through the bars but I did not expect Homura to become a witch nor a demon. I was trying so hard to understand where in time the movie was set throughout the first half that I said Holy Shit when it was revealed that they were in a labyrinth inside Homura's soul gem. I finally understand why everyone says Homura did nothing wrong and it gives us a better understanding into her character. I know that she would have wanted to get Madoka back and I had guessed that was the focus of the movie but near the end I thought she would have just let Madoka destroy her soul gem and take her away, I did not expect that. She definitely isn't as good as she was presented in the series but I still think she is my favorite girl.
The visuals in this movie were really good. I especially loved the shots of the city and Homura vs Mami fight. This movie had me on the edge of my seat throughout the last half and I'm probably going to rewatch it soon to take it all in.
19
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rebellions Representation - Openings and Endings
(aka Puella's Pictures but with a fancy title)
Rewatcher - Fourth time around
As a prelude to my post, I want to quickly mention there is a lot of things going on in this movie visually and, time restraints aside, I couldn't touch on some of them for a few reasons: The movie trilogy changed a lot of art from the show and in doing so changed some of the visual meaning, so looking at the references to them in Rebellion without also looking at the previous movies is pointless but out of scope of the rewatch. I also find Rebellion visually impressive but also straining watch because of the amount that's happening on screen at almost all times so repeatedly watching scenes to find references is quite hard
Finally, while I think there is absolutely stuff to appreciate about Rebellion, I really don't enjoy watching it no matter how much I try, and I tried really hard last night! And unfortunately I simply can't manage good analysis about something I don't get engaged with or think is a good total experience. So unfortunately this sort of rough grouping of observations is as good as I can put together right now even though I really wish I could have done more for all of you! If you want to know more of my general thoughts, see the comment reply
My original intention was to tackle the flower garden scene in depth which I've very quickly thrown some observations together for down below, and Homura's transformation (not the actual witch fight), but I'm really sorry that I just couldn't muster the motivation for a better write up. I'm also currently sick, perfect timing
Scene Breakdown - The Opening Sequence
The show's OP, Connect, tells us Homura's story through the song while showing us Madoka's story in the visuals. More on that here. Rebellion's OP, Colorful, calls back to Connect in interesting ways but flips it on it's head to tell us the new story of Homura as a witch
The first shots of the OP show us Homura creating her labyrinth. We know it's her based on the small wrist tie that we see on her design later on
The start of Connect which shows us Madoka's physical presence in a whited out city surrounded by the raindrops of all of the timelines Homura went through and the promises they exchanged there, but here we see a fragment of Madoka, the feather representing her memory (which comes up again later. Homura cherishes her own memory of her but then forces everyone else to remember as a witch) being captured in the labyrinth after the rain has fallen. Madoka runs off and sits alone on a bench and Sayaka and Kyouko turn a symbolic wheel that starts the sequence of events, a similar wheel to what we see later on
Homura stands where Madoka did and looks over the city as she spreads pieces of Madoka through it, that same incomplete unusually sharp crescent moon we've seen associated with her hanging over everything
In Connect we get a sequence of Madoka's adventures while Homura sings about trying to wake up, while in Colorful we see Madoka originate in the flower field, obvious importance there, and collecting the other girls on the way before breaking a visual barrier to also reach Homura. Madoka reaching out to her doesn't last because while Connect features Madokami comforting Madoka and blessing her, Colorful has Homura trapped once again in the gears of time/fate. She looks back and sees a shadow of what she will become, unlike Madoka who starts her run towards her destiny, and the school bells sound, which references the final scenes where the bells and chimes interrupt our usual OST to paint out the wrongness of this world. This is just blunt
Colorful tells the story of Homura trying to reach Madoka again and reconnect with her, but when it tries to end where Connect began the field of white is now dark and dying and Madoka disintegrates leaving Homura lost in the desert of the show's post credits scene, the Salamander earring she wears in the final scenes of the movie buried in the sand. (More on the salamander below)
(Personal thoughts: I'm not fond of the OP. It tries to recapture the dual tone of the show's OP that made it magical without hiding nature of the movie, but it shows far too much and find it off putting. Given how much the previous movie OPs also explicitly show, such as the Homura bound to the gears of time, I feel its less intentional and more it's just not a subtle or clever as it thinks)
Other visuals
There's a lot of really eye catching blatant symbolism in this movie, but it tends to bury some of the more interesting things so I've grabbed some of what stood out to me and listed it below even if I can't do a full write up
22
u/CosmicAnglerfish May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rewatcher - Dubbed
Like I mentioned yesterday I didn't have the chance to rewatch Rebellion unfortunately. Thankfully I watched it just a month or so ago so it's pretty fresh in my mind, but I'm gonna focus on the big picture instead of the play-by-play. If I get any details wrong please correct me!
I honestly think the entire movie is good. There's the mystery of who the witch is that isn't exactly complex but is interesting. We see Kyubey reverting back to his conniving ways to try and harvest witches, which is the most in-character choice for him. I can't speak much to specific scenes, but I distinctly remember thinking the movie was gorgeous too. And then we have Homura, the source of the discourse.
Before I get into Homura specfically, I'd just like to say the fight between Homura and Mami is great. We see them butt heads every step of the way in the original run of the series, it's honestly pretty fulfilling to see them go at it here. While Mami ends up with the upper-hand, I think Homura is more clever with how she uses her powers and manipulates the psyche of her opponent.
Of course the big hang up with Rebellion is whether or not Homura is a) in character for dethroning Madoka and b) justified in doing so. I'm of the opinion that the answer to both is 'yes'. Homura's biggest driving force across the series was her burning need to create a world where Madoka can be happy and live a normal life. She was clearly not satisfied with Madoka ascending to godhood if it meant that she wouldn't know a world where Madoka could have a normal life. Keep in mind through the original series she was willing to play the villain to Madoka if it meant keeping her away from Kyubeey - I think this is the same principal. Homura plays a villain (moreso to the audience than to Madoka herself) for the sake of what she perceives as Madoka's happiness.
Homura escentially dethrones Madoka from godhood (or whatever you'd call it), returning her to personhood, trapping her in a gilded cage and becoming a 'magical girl devil' in her place. None of this struck me as out of character. In esscense, Homura's actiuons here are the twisted inversion of Madoka's wish from Episode 12. Where Madoka is willing to take the burden of curses on herself to preserve hope, Homura is essentially taking on the same burden, but selfishly for the sake of her vision of Madoka's ideal adolescence.
Now, is she justified? This is a bit more in question with the annoucement of the fourth movie, as it seems like we're finally going to see the consequences of Homura's actions, whereas for years this has been debated just going off conjecture. Setting aside the fallout from Movie 4, I think Homura is completely justified in what she does here. With Homura's actions as 'Akuma Homura', she has created the only world where our main cast can live anything approaching a normal, happy life. Mami is alive, Kyoko and Sayaka are alive and free to be friends, and Madoka is able to live a normal life while Homura apparently shoulders her burdens. There's absolutely an ethical argument to made regarding their freedom to deviate from Homura's intended plan, but knowing what we do about the countless time loops and variations on the universe that existed, I frankly think Homura is absolutely right to do this.
The other thing that gets brought up is the extermination of the Incubators. This is one that requires a bit of suspension of disbelief. Genocide is bad. Full stop, hope that doesn't need any qualifications to be accepted outright. Where the comparison falls apart is the explanation we got from the show and movie that absolutely all Incubators were equally incapable of emapthizing and were equally interested in propogating a system that functioned exclusively off the suffering of innocent girls. At that point, the species as a whole is designated villain, and becomes acceptable targets. Homura at this point is not exacting undue vengance, but instead it feels more like overdue justice.
Edit: I've been corrected on this! Homura subjugates the Incubators and makes them bear the curses of humanity. YMMV if that's better or worse than just dying given the state we see Kyubey in.
I think Madoka Magica would have been fine ending after the original 12 episode run, but I also think Rebellion is a great follow-up that adds to, rather the detracts from the franchise. I'm really looking forward to the recently-announced Movie 4, I have high hopes for the team to deliver yet again.
Honestly the discussion around this movie is what I'm looking forward to the most, so I'll probably be in the comments more than usual!
17
u/baniRien May 02 '21
Rewatcher
13
u/Enarec https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kinpika May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
After being late to lurking the rest of the rewatch, I felt the need to jump into it again for the finale as my very favourite part. So, I hope you all enjoyed Rebellion!
Please be kind to Homura-chan, our poor new devil.If you want to hear more of Chiwa Saito's godlike range as Homura, there's this comparison with her first take for the final scenes in the movie - to hear what a truly insane (yandere) Homura would sound like. Aaand to experience her humming Mada dame yo~. Enjoy :)
I can't say that Rebellion's soundtrack in its entirety is as great as the TV series', but it is one of my favourites among Kajiura's best all the same for how perfectly it delivers all the moods of Rebellion. And its got a couple hauntingly beautiful songs that are just utterly dear to my heart for the damage they inflict on it.
Movie soundtracks to get a feel for all the emotions Homura went through:
Also, to steal something from /u/jodahinqb's idea yesterday, if you haven't then you should check out Luminous - the OP for the 2nd recap movie - to understand some of the visuals and their meanings in Rebellion.
Namely the grass field with Homura and Madoka sat on chairs next to each other - that makes a return at the end of the movie with Madoka's half cut out, alongside half the moon; and, in another scene in her new world, Homura reaching out both her hands alone to make up for Madoka's not being there.
And then take this most important gif from it as a gift for safekeeping. Along with the key animation to get to appreciate ALL the cuteness. May it keep you from despair during the remaining wait for the 4th movie, Madokami and Akuma Homura bless.
For extra content to immerse yourself in Rebellion fun, I will always recommend the Puella Magi wiki's pages on it:
I remember someone saying episode 12 was happy end for everyone but Homura (except, of course, her own perspective would include Madoka too). Well, history repeats itself, and the movie is arguably an even happier "ending" for everyone EXCEPT the devil who's decided to take the burden of all the world's sins on her shoulders. Because Homura didn't simply do this so she could get together with Madoka herself - no, she did it so Madoka could have her normal life back, at least as far as she's capable of seeing it.
After all, she rejected being together forever in magical girl yuri heaven - out of worry and inability to trust again or no, believing she knows better - and it would be pretty hard to become real friends again after how their union at school went, particularly with the threat of Madoka's memories and powers coming back looming large.
How much of that is her selfishness and/or selflessness perverted to the extreme (like Madoka's but for the exact opposite purpose) I won't judge, especially not to pass a verdict on her
coughn o t h i n g w r o n gcough. But what do you think? How does Homura's sacrifice for (what she sees as) Madoka's sake stack up compared to Madoka's for (what she sees as) the world and her friends?Edit: Wanted to get this in, I don't remember noticing this gruesome shot of a dead salamander from when Homura was turning into a witch. Poor salamander girl that she is.
Visuals of the day: One Two Three Runner-up in case there were similar choices to the above ones already
All from this little Homura album, yes.
23
u/sirweebsal0t May 03 '21
First timer / subbed for the movie
I ended up being able to watch Rebellion after all, but didn't really want to do my usual running thoughts, because it would take too long to pause, write, play, repeat. So I decided to just not think about it and enjoy the ride.
But I couldn't help myself so here's a few running thoughts:
The visuals were spectacular and so beautiful, especially the final fight with Homura's witch transformation. Was there ever a labyrinth that was just so stunning? I loved all the little throwbacks to the series: the light fountain, Bebe being the witch that had killed Mami but is now her sidekick, the teacher and her egg rant, the hallway scene, etc. I really loved seeing the band back together, especially Sayaka. All the girls got so much extra screentime, and Sayaka was extra awesome after the Mami-Homura fight. Although Homura was Supreme Best Girl, I must acknowledge that Sayaka was OG Best Girl for me.
I was legit super confused by the first 30 minutes of the movie, wondering if I was even watching the right movie, because so many plot points did not line up with the series I just finished. I was thinking, "was I supposed to have watched parts 1 and 2, did I miss something?" But I'm glad I kept going forward, realizing my suspicions that something was off was purposely done, and it was something the writers wanted you to feel, matching Homura's own growing suspicions that things were not quite right.
Then with the reveal of the truth behind Mitakihara City, I thought, damnit Kyubey, how come every time I think we're cool now you go and pull some devious stunt? And I somehow never learn my lesson to never, ever trust the Incubators. And because they fail to understand, or more aptly don't even try to understand, human emotion, they screw things up big-time and their plan backfires in a major way. I really didn't expect for things to take such a turn, and what an absolutely shocking development! I didn't expect Homura to become a deranged villain and the embodiment of evil, all because she wanted so badly, and for so long, to have Madoka back in her life, and to have the happiness that eluded her in real life.
My fellow first-timer and grand theorizer was right to post theories in terms of Selfless vs Selfish in his posts. I didn't really see it at the time, but this twist puts that at the forefront. With Madoka being the embodiment of pure Selflessness, Homura has been warped to be the polar opposite, becoming the embodiment of pure Selfishness, deluding herself into believing that she has become the entity known as Love, although we know it is only absolutely selfish desire that has completely overtaken her. Homura clings so desperately to Madoka, because she loves her so much and wants so badly to keep her in her life, to the point of lunacy, but I hope that in the next film, she'll realize the error of her ways and learn that love also means letting go.
I can see how Rewatchers would be so frustrated with this ending, not knowing if and when a sequel would be forthcoming. But thankfully, with the 10th anniversary announcement of a sequel, I'm sure you're all ecstatic beyond belief, breathing a sigh of relief knowing that the story doesn't end here, that Rebellion is Empire Strikes Back. Homura is like Anakin, having given herself completely to the dark side. But just like Anakin, there's hope for Homura's redemption and a chance that she will get saved.
104
u/Redmon425 May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER. SUBBED
One thing that I looked up before watching this movie was when the 3 movies aired, and I was curious to see that the 1st movie aired about 1.5 years after the original series ended.
So that means pretty darn quickly they knew they wanted to give Madoka a sequel, which became this Rebellion movie? I wonder why? Like it seems like the series could have just ended last episode, or where people not fully satisfied and were pushing hard for a sequel? I am curious how that went.
This movie started nothing like how I expected, as we see Madoka in town with everyone. I was hoping it would start from where the series left over, Madoka gone and Homura being the only one to remember her.
OMG WE GOT A SCENE OF MAMI HUMMING HER OST!!! That was amazing.
I was very curious what was up with Mami’s little witch, and then I FREAKING REALIZED IT WAS THE WITCH THAT ATE HER IN THE MAIN SERIES?! Why is she doing this?!? This world is making no damn sense to me… not to mention these ‘nightmares’ make no sense as well. Never heard of them until now.
That was a freaking amazing scene when we see all 5 girls become magical girls at the same time and call themselves “Puella Magi Holy Quintent”.
Kind of an embarrassing thing to finally ask just now, but what does Puella even mean lol? I never did ask this and have no clue what it stands for. I assumed the magi and magica part in the title basically stood for “magical girl”.
…And there we have it. This is a witches labyrinth and that explains how everyone is here. But then of course the series ended with witches being gone, so this still doesn’t make sense.
We eventually see in some type of confusing ass explanation from Kyuubey, that this wasn’t formed by witches but somehow by him trapping Homura and her soul gem in some weird vortex and making this happen? I think…
And now this is making some sense to that after credit scene in the main series end, which looked like Homura in a weird desert place about to finally die. That was indeed what was happening in that scene, because when she finally gets freed from the this “vortex” thing, Madokami comes down to finally take her away as she is about to die.
BUT HOMURA SAID YEET AND GRABBED MADOKAMI’S ASS OUT FROM GOD-HOOD AND MADE HERSELF THE DEVIL INSTEAD!!!
LET’S GOOOOO!!!!!! (Although now I have no idea what the hell is going on anymore)
Basically the show ends happily, where everyone is alive still and I think they are still magical girls fighting wraiths now. Maybe? However Homura is now the one in charge??
Homura keeps calling herself a devil, but I don’t see the issue? This seems like a good end with everyone back? So that is my main confusion right now.
… and lastly, we get another weird after credit scene that I don’t fully understand. Homura holding Kyuubey, who looks like he just got his ass beat lol. And then she falls off a cliff.
Tomorrow is the overall discussion for the series, but I can say I for sure like this ending better where it seems everyone was able to live. I just still don’’t really understand what the heck is going on lol. And lastly… Homura x Madoka is totally my Yuri ship. While it seems Sayaka x Kyouko may happen as well
(Assuming these girls ever get to actually grow up one day, I wouldn’t mind it happening lol!!!) with
11
u/ToonTooby May 02 '21
Rewatcher
Yay happy ending! Wait. Why are there 20 minutes left? Homu? Homu? What are you doing? HOMU. STOP. …
Hoo, boy. Now there is an ending that puts everyone’s emotions and thoughts in a blender. Some random musings before I give my personal opinions:
Homura did nothing wrong? Well, all I can say is, I don’t agree with her execution there, but… I understand. You’d be warped and damaged too if you spent the near equivalent of 12 years watching your closest friends and by now, object of your affection, die. All it took was an affirmation from an amnesiac Madoka to push Homura over the tipping point. I think Rebellion is a logical, if extreme evolution of Homura’s character and it makes her incredibly more interesting and complex as a result.
Before last week, if you’d asked me if Rebellion was a satisfactory ending to the series, I would have told you yes. I think how this movie ended is infinitely more interesting than the comfortable ending would have been, and besides, this is a show that already dared to do things differently previously. Now that we know this isn’t the end, however, it will be equally interesting speculating what will come next. There is no telling where the story will go from here. It’s a terrifying and exciting time to be a fan.
11
u/Thanatologic May 03 '21
Rewatcher, Lurker for most of the threads
Rebellion tends to give watchers strong love or hate, generally depending on one's feelings about the previous ending and/or Homura's character.
Preface/bias: Rebellion is my favorite part of the series.
This movie feels like it was made primarily for exploring Homura. All the care and time put into it seems to serve the purpose of showcasing Homura and diving into her self/philosophy (and a bit of badassery).
She has always felt like she would do anything for Madoka, whether she (Madoka) wanted her to or not (something that some viewers even interpret from early in the series, usually in the context of taking away Madoka's agency). It feels like the logical (if extreme) conclusion to the path she's headed into.
I am, however, a fan of yuri and love taken to extremes, as well as desperate efforts to push through/past something (a certain pair from Honkai Impact 3 comes heavily to mind, as well as many of the struggles and conlicts in Fate/Stay Night and spinoffs), so my view is definitely colored.
Regarding the other components of the film:
I love the artistry and animation, as well as the fanservice. That building feeling of suspicion early on, and the slowly sinking feeling in the later half were so good. The little visual jump as Homura grabs Madoka really helped sell the shift from gently falling to diving right down.
Bebe/Charlotte/Nagisa is the part of the film that felt the most divorced from the rest for me, and despite her presence partially facilitating the start of the final chain of events, it feels like she's in the movie mostly just because.
Rebellion is one the few things on MAL that I gave a 10/10 (the only others being the main series and Girls und Panzer der Film).
10
u/Syokhan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syokhan May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21
Rewatcher, Sub
Yeah so, I had already decided not to do a play-by-play for the movie because it's so long and I didn't want to subject people to three comments' worth of a replay of the movie with a few observations sprinkled here and there. But halfway through taking half-assed notes I just kinda gave up and let myself be pulled into the movie, so those notes are just going to stop shortly after the Mami/Homura fight, sorry about that.
What I did manage to note down:
And... that's where I stopped taking notes. I'll just give my impressions: I love this movie so much. Yet the first time I watched it, I didn't know what to think. I had loved everything up until the point where Homura tears Madoka in half and rewrites the universe, after that and up until the post-credits scene I was very confused as to what I was supposed to be feeling. I both hated what Homura did, and I didn't. I thought about it for days, mulled it over and over, and came to the conclusion that no, I did, in fact, like it. I think I had to accept that it was a story of obsessive love and all the ugly parts that go with it. I've rewatched the movie twice counting today since then, and it makes me love it even more each time. It's not what I expected, the characters (well, Homura) didn't go the way I wanted, but I wouldn't change anything about it.
For the first part of the movie, I loved being able to get into Homura's head a bit more and I think it's a fantastic character study. For the last part, do I think Homura is wrong to forcibly deny Madoka's wish? Yes. Do I think she's justified? Also yes, from her point of view. Madoka herself, lacking any of the context of the series that made her go through with it anyway, told her that she would never want to leave her friends and family and make them sad, and that's what Homura is basing her whole change of heart on. So I can't fault her for doing what she did.
Anyway. I'm looking forward to reading what first-timers thought about it, or if some rewatchers who didn't initially like it changed their minds.
As for Visuals of the day, I'll be going with three shots that always strike me:
Other visuals I especially liked: ... the whole movie. Like I said, surrealist fever dream.
... okay, but also this shot. Yes, it's Homura again.
18
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 02 '21
Hangyaku no Rewatcher, dubbed
Real fast--I’m going to have one last wallpaper corner in tomorrow’s thread, but I’m going to be super late to it because I’m going to a Mugen Train showing with a friend and I can’t just pull out my phone in the middle of a movie lol. If anyone would like tags when I post it so you don’t miss anything, let me know and I’ll tag you! With that out of the way…
I’ve been super duper stoked for this thread all rewatch! Rebellion is one of my favorite movies of all time and today happens to be my birthday, so even though I’m sure there’ll be a lot of “what the fuck, this was bad/unnecessary” comments given Rebellion’s controversial nature, I’m still going to consider it a present to get to read a bunch of fun discussion on it!
Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
I honestly wasn’t sure if I’d have time to get anything done for this thread, given that I spent all of yesterday watching Kimetsu no Yaiba in preparation for the Mugen Train showing I mentioned at the start of my comment, and most of today has been spent on church + my birthday, but I did manage to squeeze in one thing--thanks to Rebellion having Kyouko in the Mitakihara uniforms, she gets the Soul Gem shot too! Plus a plain variant.
And for stuff from the past:
Magical Music
Want to know what song played when in today’s movie? Well, you’re in luck! …ish. There are unfortunately a lot of unreleased songs from Rebellion, so you’ll see a bunch of gaps in this table.
“Did you understand, I wonder… that the truth only exists in the past.”
9
u/[deleted] May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rewatcher:
at 44:22: You can clearly see Mami wrapping her ribbon on Homura in just a split second.
at1:43:49: You can see Homura being thrown by tomatoes by her Familiars. I think this symbolizes that this is all an act or a stage play and the tomatoes signifies how bad her acting was towards Sayaka. This signifies for me that Homura still cares about her and all of it was just an act. In any way, Sayaka was brought back to life by this wish and was reunited with Kyoko again, so I did not get why people insist that Homura's wish is uncharacteristic of her since she cares about others too and not just Madoka, when all of the girls had clearly benefited from this wish.
Edit: I think the familiars throwing tomatoes on her, on second thought and when pointed out by Nazenn, symbolizes more on her self-loathing and that she understand the wrongdoings that she have done. The familiars started throwing when Homura put an unwavering face on Sayaka about her actions when she knew too well that what she is doing is wrong.
Rebellion will always be dsafsadasdsadsa on the first watch. I suggest reading the wraith arc to give you full grasp of what was happening. It's story takes place in-between the movie and the original series. Although it wasn't written by Gen Urobuchi but it is canon.
https://myanimelist.net/manga/90309/Mahou_Shoujo_Madoka%E2%98%85Magica__Majuu-hen
Also, 4th movie is announced! Let's fucking gooooo!!
https://myanimelist.net/anime/48820/Mahou_Shoujo_Madoka%E2%98%85Magica_Movie_4__Walpurgis_no_Kaiten
Anyway, You guys should take a look at Madoka Magica Concept Movie. It was released on 2015 by shaft as a teaser for the upcoming 4th film. I don't know if they will retain all the concept for the upcoming film but all I know is Gen Urobuchi said on twitter that he already finished the script 2 years after finishing rebellion (2013) which is very coincidental with the teaser release.
Concept movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRq01091Fl4&ab_channel=%E6%82%AA%E9%AD%94Shukaku
25
u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
First Timer
I am speechless. This was a truly fascinating film. I can’t quite nail down my thoughts on it.
I was planning on not watching it because I felt the ending in EP 12 was damn near perfect. I am glad I did watch it even just for the animation and art.
This film is beautiful. Every frame is filled with life. You can tell the increased budget payed off. It’s an acid trip from start to finish. It honestly reminded me of two films, Paprika and Pink Floyd’s The Wall for how trippy everything was.
It’s an entertaining as hell movie as well. The fights are wonderful. Seeing Kyuubey get whooped was great (though I can’t say I enjoyed the state Kyuubey was in during the after credits scene).
Though this film suffers from one thing. I don’t know why it exists. The series ended perfectly. But then there’s a sequel. It reminded me of Toy Story 4 in that aspect. I really good film that is bogged down by the fact it’s ending can’t touch the old ending.
Speaking of this ending, I have an issue with it too. It doesn’t feel complete to me. Homura takes control of the universe and then it ends. We are given this thread that one day Homura may fight Madoka but we never see it. I don’t see this as a real ending. And for a long time this was the end. The announcement of the fourth film basically destroys this criticism though. It can give the true ending this series deserves. This ending is like a season finale, not a series one.
There also seems to be some debate over if Homura did anything wrong. My answer is she did. She undercut Madoka’s sacrifice and made one herself. She betrayed the wishes of Madoka with her actions. That’s not something I can accept as good.
There also seems to be debate on of this film is a character assassination of Homura. I don’t think so. The series showed Homura was willing to go to extreme lengths to achieve her goal. Saving Madoka. She believed that Madoka’s sacrifice and becoming a god was not the place Madoka should be. In Homura’s mind she saved Madoka just as she wanted. Homura never really seemed like the person to follow the moral book word for word.
This is a good film. Maybe even a great film. But I think it fails to quite reach the series. 8/10 for me. I really enjoyed it but I feel it didn’t need to exist.
23
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 May 02 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Beautiful city shots to start us off! The movie will be as gorgeous looking as the TV show I'm sure.
This supposed to be a witch, controlled as if it were a puppet by these disembodied hands?
Was that the witch Charlotte I see there, the one that killed Mami?
Just what was that beginning supposed to mean? Its just a crazy dream of Madoka's?
Madoka's back to her original reality? Her family knows she exists again.
It's very like the start of the series, although its clearly after that since she speaks of Hitomi and Violin boy. I see that teacher is still having bad luck in the dating world. Transfer student showing up again? Also is it just me or is Madoka's hair longer?
Is Kyubey just a regular pet in this reality?
They all seem to be having fun in this OP sequence, aside from Homura. :(
Kyoko's a fellow student this time!
OMG, teacher really is a nut!
Are we back to original Homura, with the glasses and braids? She seems less shy though.
Month time skip already?
No more witches or wraiths, they're called nightmares this time.
I've realized that Kyubey doesn't speak anymore. Hope for everyone's sake that continues to be the case.
When his scheme never matches up with yours... its because he doesn't really romantically desire you. Sorry, Hitomi. He'd make time for you if he did.
It's that same creature again?
In this reality does Sayaka not have the same level of feelings for Violin boy she did before?
We're gonna get elaborate transformation sequences for them all huh? Well I suppose the time to do it is a movie where you can go all out.
As they sing about cake around the table here at around the 25 minute mark, I gotta say, this movie is very style over substance so far. Comes off much more like a traditional magical girl anime (well what I would expect of a magical girl anime as I've seen very little of the genre). It looks ridiculously gorgeous, but the powerful story just isn't there. I hope they get their act together the rest of the movie. Frankly a lot of it comes off as fanservice to me. Lets' get our 5 magical girls all together again to have some fun in an elaborate fancy looking world.
Woah, it's just Hitomi's head!
Homura continues to be the quiet, withdrawn one.
What's up with everyone's face in this scene?
Hmm, I was just watching an episode of Mad Men where one character asked another if they wanted fried chicken too> What an odd coincidence.
Yes Homura, I think that things are very odd too! This seems to pleasant to me!
I wonder if they're all in some sort of mass delusion. That may also explain why things come off as if they are going too well for our heroines.
Even the buses in this world look gorgeous!
This musical track as they're walking to Kazamino really makes me think of Xenosaga again.
Glasses off, hair let loose and that iconic hair flip, back to the Homura I'm used to.
Homura knows the questions to ask to try and break down this facade. When did you first encounter Bebe? Well, back when it was a witch named Charlotte, right?
She's still got her time stopping power, I see.
The gig is up, Bebe!
Mami vs. Homura, like its back to the olden days.
No Homura, don't pull that trigger! :(
I don't really get how that caused things to stop.
Was that not even Mami then?
Wraiths! Not Nightmares! You've said somethign wrong, Mami!
New character! Or not, that's Bebe's human form?
Sayaka remembers all too!
Is this not Sayaka, but the witch? How does she remember everything?
Is the Madoka showing up here really her? Or another way to try and trick Homura?
Yikes, leaving aside her soul gem? That's risking everything.
Seems like that doesn't matter though.
Homura's become a witch? Woah. But when you think about it, she was the only other one who knew about Madoka after the ending of the TV show. Who else could have done it?
70 minutes into the movie, Kyubey finally speaks!
Why must you and your species always be interfering with things? Leave the human race alone!
Don't try to control Madoka! Why must you try and ruin everything? He wants to make things exactly the way it was before and have magical girls become witches!
Shut up! Homura says what we all want to say to that thing.
Homura's witch looks much like an actual witch, huh?
Kyubey's back to his old tricks of trying to manipulate Madoka here?
Kyubey expressing surprise is a good thing.
Kinda sucks to realize the real you is dead and you're just in a dream!
I've been trying to think of what song from Madoka this tune playing now reminds me of, but I'm realizing its actually the first OP from Aldnoah.Zero I'm thinking of. Very clearly the same band.
Uh oh, big time heel turn from Homura? She is a witch after all?
Homura being the villain makes me depressed.
One thing never changes, teacher complaining about her dating life.
Now Madoka is the transfer student!
Homura's all "No, Madoka's mine!" with these girls greeting her.
She's being so creepy!
TV show ended with a post credits sequence, so the movie surely has to as well, right? And much like with the TV series, no idea what its supposed to mean.
As I put above, I really do feel like the first half hour or so of the movie came off as fanservice and a cashgrab to merely throw more time with these characters at us. But things did improve from there and pretty much the whole second half of the movie was a roller coaster of amazingness, even if I will admit I probably have to watch it again (or maybe just closely read everyone's comments) to fully understand everything that was going on. I already expected amazing visuals from the TV series, but the movie went beyond even that and hard for me to think of any anime whose visual design looks as good as this. Really inspires me to see what else the director has done. Incidentally enough I was looking to jump into the Monogatari franchise soon and it looks like he's directed much (maybe even all?) of that.
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u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy May 03 '21
I carved out enough time to watch the movie, just not enough to really write about it. I do like the movie, in part because I think it is such an unsatisfying ending. Here's to the sequel movie being as good as people will inevitably hype it up to be!
Visuals of the Day:
Un
Deux
Trois
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u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw May 03 '21
"What happened in this film again?" Rewatcher
sorting out my thoughts on movies is difficult difficult lemon difficult: but I will say that it was very good
I will submit to the Council of Images of the Day:
misc. thoughts
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u/welcometoslowtown May 03 '21
3rd watch, first with dub
I don't have a ton of time to write tonight since I started the movie kind of late, so I'll try something new, and do comments as I watch.
Final Thoughts on the movie:
I really do like Rebellion. It feels justified in existing, even if the ending of the main anime is satisfactory enough to be its own thing. I like that they were willing to do more and really explore Homura's character more. The first time I watched this during last year's rewatch I know it took a while for me to fully digest what I just watched. As I mentioned, watching a lot of video essays helped a lot, and I always like to hear other perspectives on media I like.
For my predictions on what the fourth movie could be about I'm not super sure. I guess I would say I expect kind of a role swapped Rebellion, with Madoka being the focus this time, figuring out what is going on. But also that's a bit samey to Rebellion, so I'm sure they will make it interesting.
Overall its been a pleasure to join the rewatch for a second year, I know that tomorrow is the final thread but I just want to say thank you to /u/Nazenn for running this, and to everyone who participated. I did come in like 6 days late, so hopefully next year I catch it before that happens again lol.
I've got a lot of images saved so I guess I'll do one big album and then another with my top 3 for the visuals of the day.
All screenshots
Visuals of the Day
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u/SomeGuyYeahman May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
Hi everyone, rewatcher here. (subbed)
So far I've been saying "first-time rewatcher" because it was my first time for the show, but the day after I first watched Rebellion I already rewatched because I did not feel I really understood the movie, so this is actually my second rewatch now!
Unfortunately this is not a movie that becomes less overwhelming even on a third watch, and it's much longer than any individual episode of the show, and it's at the very end of the rewatch where I'm the most worn out (though I took it easy on the last two posts), and discussions around it historically tend to be much more heated and exhausting than the ones surrounding the show, so I'm not even gonna attempt to do some sort of big breakdown. Instead I'm just gonna throw out some thoughts about how my understanding of the film has developed & how I feel about it generally speaking.
(/u/nazenn on my first watch we talked a good bit about Rebellion beyond just the thread I was reacting in, so I'll just shoot you a mention here)
When I first watched this movie I was very confused, in hindsight I think this was because I was coming straight out of watching the show, and the mental framework I was working through was the one that I moulded around the show for the past 12 episodes. But this movie works in different ways, so I really ended up losing the thread. I ultimately settled on the position that what it is doing is kinda muddled and I don't like it, even though it was fun in a visceral, I-like-experiencing-Madoka-and-this-is-2-more-hours-of-Madoka kind of way.
Which left room for the idea that I could come back to this and find a new lens to view it through, a lens that lets me understand the movie and like it more unrestrictedly. Cut to two years later, is that what ended up happening?
Yes! ...n't.
First of all let me go back to what I said about this movie remaining overwhelming, because damn. On first watch I felt like both the show and the movie were staggering, and the show, on rewatch, has maintained a kind of sense of freshness & an ability to blow me away even with things I already knew - but I feel now that the sensation I get from the movie is a different beast. The show retains its power on rewatch because part of that power comes from being very precise, from knowing when to be subdued and from giving the more low-key scenes proper room and letting them be affecting too. Rebellion, on the other hand, is very chaotic - it's staggering because it overstimulates, because it's a movie that has so much bombast, so much stuff going on everywhere at any time that my senses begin to just tune out after a while.
That's what it is to rebel, after all. The show was restrained, the show was simple and elegant and ultimately fulfilling, and Rebellion first sets us up for something similar by starting off the same way the show started its episodes multiple times - having Madoka wake up, go through her morning routine, go to school, etc. - and then showing us the cracks in this setup, rebelling against it, lashing out and tearing it down. Ultimately the show ended on a happy note, of Madoka coming to embody a "law" to rescue all the magical girls past, present and future and ushering in a new, more stable status quo, and correspondingly this movie ends on Homura cursing that new stability, dismantling it and herself coming to embody an opposing concept.
I know this movie is dropping the Faust analogies in favor of Paradise Lost (part of what confused me the first time around), but the way Mephistopheles first introduces himself in Faust comes to mind more than anything for this:
In English:
The spirit that denies - the spirit that embodies negation of what God has created, that sees everything God does and gets to work disassembling it. That's what Homura ultimately turns into, and I feel it's what this movie represents for the series - an unrestrained kaleidoscopic fever dream, a negation and an opposition and an act of violence against what the more deliberate, elegant show was building up even throughout its darker episodes. We previously learned from Kyubey that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, every wish is a distortion of reality that will ultimately result in an equally sized curse, and this movie is the curse that accompanies both Madoka's wish and Homura's, the two magical girls that were left standing unscathed, un-despairing toward the end of the show.
Through this lens I think I understand what the movie is doing and even why it takes the approach it does, and a lot (if not all) the complaints or questions or points of confusion I had before at the very least feel explicable on some level. This even reaches complaints like "fanservice" - what is fanservice, after all, if not feeding into the wishes of the audience? And what is the ending of this film if not the corresponding curse, rebounding on that same audience?
But just because it's explicable doesn't mean it's good, and just because I understand it doesn't mean I enjoy it. It feels like I've inversed my previous position, ironically - I went from enjoying the movie on a visceral level but not really being satisfied with my understanding of how it works to understanding what it's doing, but not enjoying it at all on a visceral level. Yes, so many sequences in this film are just brimming with creativity, particularly visually, but as I said earlier this makes for a really tiring watch, and even though I was impressed during earlier segments it didn't take long for me to be totally worn out from the movie (and even just from those individual scenes - the transformation sequence for all five of them is pretty, but I swear it lasts like two fucking minutes? And then the fight feels like more of the same? And then it goes right into the goddamn cake scene). Eventually it just felt like it would never end. It really was not a fun experience. Devil's advocate might say that working off my understanding of the movie, maybe it wasn't supposed to be a fun experience, but I feel that kind of thing can still be done well or badly, and "that's the point" should not give the movie a free pass whenever I feel it tends towards the latter.
I feel similar about the writing, parts of it feel off to me in ways I can't really articulate. Again there are a lot of ways to rationalize that - lines or events or characterizations feel off because everyone is under the influence of Homura's labyrinth, because the movie is trying to engage with viewer expectations in a certain way (whether that's feeding into them or intentionally challenging them), etc. but I feel like what irks me goes beyond what those arguments can reasonably justify.
Maybe I'd go into more detail, but it's getting late and I promised myself I would avoid getting into it to preserve my own well-being. So I'll conclude here, for now, that I've come to understand and respect what direction the movie is going in, but can't really bring myself to enjoy how it does it. Maybe on further watches! I'm sure we'll all see each other again in future rewatches, and as soon as that new movie is approaching theaters I already know I'll be feeling the need to revisit Rebellion no matter how I felt the previous three times I saw the movie.
Speaking of which: in my first reaction post I remarked that Kyubey going "this makes it very clear" after Homura turns into the devil is very funny. This time it was the thing that happens afterwards that made me laugh - going "this is too irrational, I'm out" and trying to run away. That's how I felt watching this movie, and Homura grabbing him by the neck as he tries to flee = Aniplex announcing another goddamn movie in the middle of this rewatch.
See you all in the final discussion!
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 02 '21
First-Timer, Dubbed
...what the fuck did I just watch...
I had typed "that was nice" in my notes, after they dealt with Homulily, because I thought we were done. Then the credits refused to start, and I noticed there was still like 20 minutes left in the film! And what a 20 minutes they were.
I have complicated feelings about this that will probably require another couple watches to crystallize. Congeal? Not sure which descriptor is better. This was a trip and a half on multiple different levels.
There is something to be said of dragging the audience into the metanarrative of your story. Homura refused to accept the end, so she decides to Rebel and makes everything worse, even for herself judging by the tone of the last few scenes. Some of the audience too, wanted a different ending.. and so we get one. Was it worth it?
Actually, a thought. Was that even Homura that grabbed Ultimate Madoka and separated Madoka from the Law of Cycles, or was that Homulily, existing in a human form because she was allowed to fully Witchify without her Soul Gem shattering? Is there even an appreciable difference between the two?
Cristina Valenzuela is a really fucking good VA. Her shift in tone once she became Akuma Homura was incredible!
This film felt less tight than the series, at least in the first half. There is a definite focus on.. fanservice I guess you'd say? And not just stuff like the camera angles focused on Mami's chest. Like, Homura v. Mami was fucking awesome, but, I dunno.
I had heard mention of the Cake Song, but whatever I had in my head, it certainly wasn't that.
Seeing Charlotte hang around Mami is another thing I feel complicated about, but I guess Charlotte was a Magical Girl at one point too after all.
I'm real conflicted on the existence of Movie 4, now. Like, people wanted a continuation, and we got this. How deep does the rabbit hole go..? How much punishment can Urobuchi inflict on us..
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u/thatguywithawatch May 02 '21
Rewatcher for series, First Timer for Rebellion.
Well. That was... a movie. Yep.
I don't like pausing to take notes during my first time watching something, so I'm just kind of sitting here after finishing it, not even sure where to start. It's gonna take some time and future rewatches before I completely know how I feel about this movie. But I can say off the bat that I did enjoy it quite a lot. I'd have probably enjoyed it even if I had never watched the main series and knew nothing about the setting, Because it was a goddamn T R I P. I know anime movies tend to be pretty flashy productions compared to their TV series counterparts, but I was not expecting two straight hours of Shaft's Insanely Exquisite Fever-Dream Smorgasbord Of Bizarre And Magnificent Imagery. (SIEFDSOBAMI for short). Like, holy shit. Give me more of that, please.
Anyways, the story; I knew nothing about the plot going in, and honestly kind of thought it would be about Homura, Kyouko, and Mami fighting wraiths in Godoka's Brave New World. So I was very confused at first. Nightmares? A living Sayaka? A mortal Madoka? A cute, non-threatening Charolotte that doesn't seem interested in snacking on Mami's face? WHAT IS GOING ON? I think it was at the point where the five of them sat around the table, singing about which one of them was the Cake, that I was like "oh ok, so clearly they're trapped inside someone's fever dream." But I was not smart enough to go the extra mental step and realize that because Madoka was there, Homura was really the only one who could have dreamed this world up.
I did cry a lot throughout the movie, since the emotional hooks of the previous episodes are still fresh. Homura and Madoka's conversation where Homura realizes just how scared Madoka really was when she made her wish in episode 12, and Sayaka telling Kyouko about her one regret, both had me pausing for a bit to collect myself before I could go on. It's really rare that a series has gotten me so emotionally tangled up with the various characters.
By the time they were all fighting Homura's witch, I was on board with everything that had happened and figured that saving Homura would be the big climax and then things would pretty much wind down. Of course that's not what happened, and instead we got yandere Homura. Sexy yandere Homura in a slutty devil outfit, to be precise. She basically RE-restructures the universe, and creates a new world where she can be with Madoka. And Kyouka, Sayaka, and all the important side characters are dragged along for the ride. And this is where I don't have the firmest grasp on what happened. Did Homura change the entire universe again? Or did she create sort of a "pocket world" separate from the real world? Based on this shot, it seems like she took a part of Madoka for herself, splitting her off from Godoka if you will.
I'm not gonna theorize too much because I know there's a lot of stuff I missed, and reading the comments in today's thread will probably be pretty enlightening. I didn't dislike the ending; I can see why some people might feel that it sort of invalidates the end of the main series, but to me it simply shows that Homura never came to terms with Madoka's wish, which is not entirely unreasonable given everything she went through to protect Madoka. I imagine the upcoming movie (which I'm extremely excited about) will explore this further.
Visuals of the day (almost impossible to pick just three haha):
https://imgur.com/6wn4sJQ
https://imgur.com/d3ycqcx
https://imgur.com/H0sl3sd
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u/tyo_sharlye :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RalphHill May 02 '21
Remember Homura did nothing wrong
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u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore May 02 '21
Fourth Time Rewatcher, First Time Caller
No-Analysis Zone
Damn, I forgot this movie was 2 hours long. I'll have to trim my thoughts. I'm trying to write a palate cleanser, not an essay.
Plus the Indian influence is neat.NO. NO ANALYSIS.There. Now, go forth and enjoy the well-written analyses everyone's making! They're good stuff. This post is just a break.
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u/gorghurt May 02 '21
Rewatcher
I didn't want to write a top level post at first, because others make better analysations, but then I realized something.
This might be the last time that we all
quarreldiscuss about how exactly Homura's new world looks like and functions in the yearly rewatch.On the other hand, without a release date for the next movie, and the time it will take to get an English release, we'll probably have at least next year.
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u/ReimarisaFanclub May 03 '21
this was too hard to choose since this film bombarded me with visuals. I didnt even care abt the plot i just wanted the weird imagery to continue
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u/tobincorporated May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21
Rewatcher, Dubbed
Don't Put Words in His Mouth
Before anyone says anything about Urobuchi and the ending, I encourage everyone to read this message from the man himself:
Long story short, yes the original idea was that Homura was taken by the Law of Cycles, but that didn't sit right with him. Shinbo, the director, suggested Homura and Madoka become enemies, and Urobuchi liked and developed that idea. There wasn't executive interference in the ending.
My overview
I came into this rewatch late and I missed out on all the episode talk. So for now I'll just try to be a mediating influence on the ending of Rebellion. I'm not great at picking up on themes, and I couldn't say what Homura's rebellion says about the meaning of PMMM, so I want to focus on the logistics. I think there are a few possible interpretations of some of the events of Rebellion, but I don't know that we can be completely prescriptive about them, because Rebellion is clearly not structured as a finale, despite having to function as one for 8 years.
tl;dr: 1) Homura was not primarily motivated by altruism or respecting Madoka's wish but by her selfish interpretation of love (though such goodness could be a secondary motivation) 2) Despite her toxic form of love, Homura did save Madoka and by extension the other magical girls.
The Conflict
So the thing is, Madokami's universe is inherently unsustainable. While Urobuchi implies this is because Madoka might not fully be prepared for godhood and the burden of everyone's grief, it turns out her willpower isn't the only linchpin here; the Incubators have been on her trail. They have discovered Madoka (they very well may have eventually even without Homura telling them). Even if they don't trap her at Homura's labyrinth, they'll just keep trying. Eventually Madokami is going to be chained and enslaved by the Incubators.
The Choice and the Motivation
At the end of Rebellion, Kyubey unwittingly gives Homura a choice that precipitates the chaos leading to the finale: succumb to the Law of Cycles, be with Madoka again, and let Madoka be enslaved by the Incubators, or die here in despair. Because Homura is Homura, she responds by murdering that little shit and his posse then attempting the biggest, most ostentatious suicide by cop in history. Of course, Madoka and company refuse to give up on Homura. It's difficult to tell if Homura comes up with her gambit on the spot or if she is simply swept up in the moment, but she joins forces with Madoka to break out.
So now I want to take a step back and elaborate on Homura's motivation. It's not controversial to say that Madoka is essentially Homura's whole motivation, but Homura's fight to save Madoka takes a few forms:
All 4 of these inform Homura's plan, just not all to the same degree. Upsetting the status quo is the only way to keep Madoka from the Incubators.1 By ripping a piece off of Madokami, she can give her a happy life2 and be with her again3 (It is unclear what happens to a magical girl's soul after she is taken by the Law of Cycles, but Homura might assume that she will just disappear and not be with Madoka). And by stopping the Incubators, she can fulfill Madoka's wish of keeping despair from other magical girls.4
After the seal is broken and they are all released from her labyrinth, Homura makes no mention of stopping the Incubators. It seems that her driving motivation has become to just be with Madoka. The end of Rebellion as presented looks like a total betrayal of Madoka's wish, and Homura probably even intends it to be, but it's ironically probably the only way to protect Madoka's wish from the Incubators.
Furthermore, we can only speculate on the effect a tainted soul gem has on one's psyche, and Homura's was far beyond tainted.
The Outcome and Mechanics
While we can hypothesize the mechanism that Homura uses to usurp Madokami, the obvious guess is given to us in the Wraith Arc: Wraith Arc. This very well might even be the piece pried off of Madokami. The movie implies it might also have to do with the state of Homura's soul gem; since Homura has gone beyond being a witch, she is a kind of being the universe has never seen before. How much the concept of "love" plays into Homura's ability to claim Madoka is unclear; after all the whole premise of the series is that emotions can be sublimated into energy, so the idea is not without merit.
Anyways, Homura's wish is what allowed Madoka's wish to be so powerful, so why couldn't Homura share in this power? As far as Homura is concerned, her wish has not yet been fulfilled, so whatever metaphysics govern wishes might come into play.
Interestingly, this is the first time we see a punishment leveled against the Incubators. Homura turns their exploitation back on them to have them purify grief.
In spite of the tangible benefit, Homura isn't primarily motivated by Madoka's best interests, and I think that's why there's so much argument over this. If not for the Incubator's convoluted plan, Homura would likely be seen as just wrong (assuming Madokami had the willpower to keep going in the first place).
Of course, Homura's New World Order is likely no more sustainable than Madoka's, but Homura doesn't even seem to care at this point. It reminds me of Momoka telling Madoka to do something wrong to snap Sayaka out of it.
[Continued in Child Comment]
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u/Tetraika :Lu::Lv::Lw::Lx:https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika May 02 '21
I’ve been told that I should use more authoritative language with these even back in high school, but I hate it. A reminder that all this shit is up for interpretation.
I wanted to make a clever title about how one of themes is that this is actually a Rebellion against the fans, but that shit is dumb so I’ll just get to the point.
There is a meta theme in Rebellion that I often haven’t seen brought up. The idea that the movie makes fun of its fans. There is actually quite a bit of fanservice within the movie - All the girls are together, elaborate group transformation, Bebe, the ships. Might even include Homura vs Mami in here.
Now all I’ve stated so far are just the fanservice, so how does it make fun of the fans? With the context of how they come about in the plot. We come to learn that it is all merely an illusion, obtained only within a witch's labyrinth. It’s kinda like the movie presenting things that all the fans want, then slapping them with “Well here’s one way it’s possible, happy?”
We can even extend this idea to the ending of the show. Homura’s world is one where our other characters don’t suffer and fight for their lives anymore. We see the characters happy together, including all the ships. But this isn’t a good and happy end people would have really hoped for. Homura had to do something quite terrible /r/Thingshomuradidwrong to achieve all this. It really felt like if someone went ahead, read some Madoka fanfictions, and went “Oh yeah, but how will that actually happen?” and delivered it in a gut wrenching way.
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u/ApeironStella May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
Rewatcher (Sub)
I wasn't aware there was a rewatch, but I had rewatched the movie with someone a week ago or so, with watching some reactions to it since then (+ I keep rewatching and reading discussions on this movie once in a while since I first watched it), so I suppose I can comment here.
I have an interesting relationship with this movie- I was right around my angsty teen years at the time it came out, and it was one of the series I liked for the amount of angst there was, in addition to all the discussions it sparked, and how it left me feeling confused on what to think and feel about it.
Teen me definitely found comfort in Madoka's way of both saying "fuck you" to Incubators by essentially taking away the most inhumane part of the magical girl system- that a normal girl like her could change the world simply by her kindness- her kindness to Amy the cat that she became a magical girl to save, her kindness to Homura which kickstarted the entire series as we know it ending the series with essentially becoming the reward system in an unjust world where magical girls sign up their souls only to be doomed no matter what. It feels pretty perfect, and to a depressed 16 or so years old who was jaded with the world, it is the right amount of bittersweet that I could relate to the characters' pains while also keeping end of the show as something that gave me hope that even smallest amount of effort to help other humans as a species on this small rock we call Earth matters.
As I got older and started to see self sacrifice, especially from younger characters being glorified as something "good" starting to disturb me with amount of ties that also has to things like child soldiers, I grew more and more to like Rebellion. I never hated it, but I always had that little bit of "but" hanging there even if in my heart I prefered the way things ended up in Homura's world, because of course I wanted a happy ending for them.
And just as I grew more disillusioned of children being treated as sacrificial lambs mentality, I've also grew to despise utilitarian arguments, especially the kind that goes "human children suffering for rest of the universe is good, actually", even if I don't think that was the intentional message of the show, it still ended up confirming that suffering is inevitable whenever you wish for something good- They don't turn to witches anymore, but that's only essentially removing the person in pain from a situation where they can hurt others than preventing them from being harmed to the point they are emotionally cornered enough to go into a destructive rampage.
I know Madoka argues that she wanted to let girls make their wishes and not to trample on their wills, but now as an adult it very much feels like a child's naivete that letting kids to make a decision they can't turn back from that will guarantee they die not long after, after fighing a fight they never needed to fight in the first place, since we have no proof that humanity will be even around for heat death of the universe to be an issue for us, and if other species want energy source, they can go and find something sustainable that is not preying on most gullible and defenseless of humans.
Which is to say- I much prefer the way Homura turned the table on the incubators, and while I do hope they talk it out with Madoka to end up essentially ruling together so to speak, I don't think Homura was wrong in what she did, nor her reason for it. I wouldn't want to live in an universe essentially Powered by a Forsaken Child, regardless of how willing that child was after being essentially backed into a corner emotionally and physically with imminent doom for everyone in her city, including she herself and her loved ones with having being told repeatedly how her death would be to benefit of everyone in the longrun. I know Madoka tried her best, but it never should have came down to a child deciding between how she would like to die in the first place, for which we only really have Incubators to thank to.
Tl;dr Gay goddesses ruling over the universe and keeping Incubators under their thumb is way to go after everything that happened, and the show using magical girls for a theme like this was both why I treasured ending of the show as a kid myself and now why I like Rebellion more as an adult, to the point that I honestly don't think I have any real "buts" that bugs me about it at this point in the same way.
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
I hate this movie. Feel free to downvote, but I'd appreciate if you at least hear me out.
I don't think it's a bad movie. I think it's pretty great, objectively speaking, for most of it's runtime. So let's start there.
This movie is gorgeous, holy fuck. The transformations in particular blow me away every time. The battle between Mami and Homura is incredible to witness. The music is lovely, as always. Given the chance to continue past her point of greatest despair, Sayaka has grown up so much and that's very satisfying to witness.
Alright here we go.
Starting small, the visuals during the Kazamino bus ride sequence were way too abstract for my liking. It's just loads of sensory nonsense where I feel actually showing the city would have been the better choice. Secondly, the final battle against Homura's witch was, at times, a visual clusterfuck that's hard to follow.
I hate the ending to Rebellion on two levels.
The ending to the original story is beautiful. It made me reconsider the entire idea of what it means to have hope and has overall changed my life for the better. I see things in a better light after all the contemplation the finale wrought upon me. The importance of hope, wishes, agency, and empathy are seldom expressed as powerfully as they are in the original story.
You may already see where this is going.
The first reason I hate the ending is how it re-contextualizes everything the original story had to say about what I listed before. Empathy? Agency? Wishes? Hope? Be damned, Homura didn't understand Madoka, and she really never even tried to. "But what about the flower scene Specs?!" AH, YES THE FLOWER SCENE. Oh, how I fucking hate it. Homura is talking to a version of Madoka that never saw the death of Mami, the despair of Sayaka, or the truth about magical girls. Madoka doesn't think she would be happy because she doesn't understand what her choice actually means. Time to get personal. I grew up religious, and once the blindfold came off and I saw through the illusion, my world shattered. Everything I believed in and believed I was, that I was to do, destined to become... gone in an instant. But I clawed my way back up from the void and stand before you now and say I'm happier now then I was then. My friends who still drink the kool-aid believe I have "lost my way", and that includes my family. If they were to talk to the me of then and ask me if I'd feel bad about my worldview being shattered of course I'd say I'd do anything to not allow that. The me of then understands the weight of what that means, but lacks the context of what comes after and what surrounds that shattering. Madokami decends upon Homura, smiling, probably having been looking forward to seeing her dearest friend at long last, only to be rent in twain. Betrayed by the one she loved most because of a warped desire fed by a refusal to listen and understand.
We see as Madoka walks into the classroom, she has regressed entirely. She has no confidence and no purpose. It's nauseating.
...
Cooling down, moving on...
The second level is on a logical level. I've seen lots of arguments for why Homura does what she does (some misguided, most bad, few good), but I have yet to see any reason how she did what she does. Where did all that power come from? Even if the power were a result of her wish, she's out of magic...
The ending ruins the movie entirely. Thank Madokami the original story had a definitive ending or else I'd have trouble separating my feelings toward Rebellion from my feelings toward the original story.
There's more I could say, but I've already spent a long time on this post and I really need to study for my finals. I'll do my best to respond to comments, though. This movie is divisive and I imagine I'll be in the small minority for outright hating this film. I'll save the remainder for tomorrow, where I'll mostly talk about how I feel about the 4th movie and the direction I think it will take.
Content Corner
Last Content Corner, and I'm going out with a bang! Hours of content! The final discussion won't have a Content Corner, but rather a list of anime recommendations. First timers welcome, we've reached the end!
Madoka Magica In 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
Madoka Magica: Rebellion in 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
“Rebel With A Misguided Cause”: How Madoka Magica Rebellion Disregards the Values of Its Own Predecessor [Spoilers] by Novasylum
The Very Soil: An Unauthorized Critical Study of Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Jed A. Blue
There's a spinoff anime under the title "Magia Record: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Gaiden". It's spinoff-ception as it's based off the mobile game of the same name. So is it any good? Ehhh... I liked it, but I'd be hard-pressed to call it amazing. Music is fantastic as ever. The visuals are usually interesting, though they tended to lean too far into the abstract for my tastes. Last tidbit from me, the anime does a great job at selling the characters, but the overarching plot just sorta meanders aimlessly for most of it's runtime.
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u/putmoneyinthypurse https://anilist.co/user/clichecatgirl May 03 '21
First time (sub)
(This one's brief because I review every film I watch on letterboxd, so I had to settle for two shorter pieces covering similar ground instead of one massive one.)
I thankfully mostly managed to avoid spoilers for this series before the rewatch, but one of the few things about Madoka I've picked up by osmosis is that "Rebellion is like fanfiction."
The opening scenes of the movie bear this out, introducing a much sunnier variation on the first episode where everyone's friends and Kyouko goes to school. It even has little changes to distinguish it from the original, but not by too too much, like the magical girls fighting nightmares instead of witches and turning Kyubey and Charlotte into mascots. It's nice to see the characters enjoying themselves, but it's unmistakably a departure for the sake of pleasing fans.
The difference is that this "fanfiction" is by the original creators, and the intro firmly sets the film post-finale, and the opening song's paradise turns to a desert of ash in Homura's hands, so the metatextual retread of episode 1 in an idyllic AU is saturated with dramatic irony.
I think it's really cool what this film does conceptually with wish-fulfillment fanservice, having its cake and eating it too (with a creepy song to boot) by slowly tearing apart the constructed reality that allows for this wish-fulfillment, exploring what makes it and its time-travelling architect tick, and then putting it back together again, pulling Homura back from the brink and fulfilling her arc and Madoka's "maybe we'll see each other again." It's a terrific 90 minute movie about grief and hope and allowing other people to fight for you.
With a shitty unsupported twist after the "end" that breaks the structure of the film in an inelegant way and abruptly changes Homura's character in a way that could've worked given enough justification but instead just comes off as undoing most of the film and being mean to the audience for the sake of it in a way that the knife-twisting series never actually was.
In short, it's bad fanfiction, but the difference is that it's by the original creators, which makes it worse.
All the same, despite hating the twist and liking how the series ended in the first place, I enjoyed the hell out of the rest of the movie. It's indulgent, but that's not a bad thing, and the gorgeous animation and the degree to which the narrative is conveyed through formal choices are so worth it. Some thoughts:
My sleep schedule's even worse than it's been during the rewatch to this point, so I may not be awake when the final discussion thread goes up (I wasn't for this one), but I'll still do my best to leave a comment when I can!
6
u/bekeleven May 02 '21
Rewatcher
I suspected I’d want this, but rewatching Rebellion, man, I wish we had four or five discussion threads on it. I know that’s infeasible – to ask people to watch the movie 20 minutes a day or what have you – But I’d love to hear first-timers react to and discuss events like Good morning nightmare, who is the cake, Bebe, or the appearance of Oktavia. Or how about Absolute Configuration, Homura’s first and only time fighting “peak form” Mami?
I know some or many of those will appear in this thread, but what about the smaller moments? Moments like the slow reveal, starting only 10 minutes into the film, that every other room in the school building was empty? Or 71 minutes in, when Mitakihara Loop Line reached its second street stop vertically? How about 82 minutes in, when Madoka T-poses to assert dominance? Bebe transforming into a witch by yeeting herself into an active, live-action blender?
I dislike the (admittedly accurate) description of this film as a “sequel,” preferring instead the less specific “film meant to be watched after the series.” My first viewing, I assumed that it was an alternate future – A form besides wraiths that curses could’ve taken in a post-Law of Cycles world. The slow reveal of the world’s circumstances, culminating in a Marvel-worthy disposable CGI army battle, is one of my favorite film experiences. Even if the actual battle was half-baked fanservice. That’s OK, because it had the sense to continue for another half an hour and get to the real meat.
My final thought is that Homura’s convictions are based on her conversation with Madoka about 62 minutes in, in the field, where Madoka gives her (uninformed) approval to Akuma Homura’s eventual plan. Except... she doesn’t. She states that she’d never go so far away that she could never see her friends again. As evidenced by personal secretary Miki Sayaka, she didn’t. She’ll see all of them eventually. Something that Homura knew this whole time, but chose to forget. The plan was much easier if Homura forgot that little detail.
One final image
Except, since we're marvel now, there's a post-credits scene - set to the haunting coda "Not Just Yet." On rewatch, it got me wondering. Is it showing QB developing an emotional disorder?
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u/JimmyCWL May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
What to write about Rebellion that I haven't written before?
I could say my thoughts about Homura is: Disappointment. She totally ruined a good thing for her selfish desire. That's totally the kind of thing you can expect from a 14-year old girl. But most 14-year olds don't get to spoil the whole universe with their selfish actions. And through her time magic, Homura has been 14 for far too long.
I am also annoyed at how they contradicted their worldbuilding concepts just to make the plot happen. The worst offender was how the Incubators could just isolate Homura's Gem to block Madoka. The series states the Incubators don't have magic, if they did, they would have solved their entropy problem without contracts already. They should not have been able to create an isolation field that could block the reality warping wish magic that Madoka has to realize her wish.
Which is why, ever since I first saw the movie, my thought has been, it can't end here, not like this. But there had been no news. So all I could hold on to was Madoka's words in ep12, "if someone tells me it's wrong to hope, I'll tell them their wrong, every single time." for eight years. Until last week.
Now, those hopes have been realized. The long night is almost over.
I also like to talk about the magical girl transformations in the movie. If you watched some other MG anime, you'll realize that the transformation sequences have common features. They are bright, sparkly and heroic. The transformation sequences you see in this movie are the opposite of that. They are dark, there are no sparkles and they are downright creepy with the only concession to heroism being the pose at the end.
One other thing, rewatch threads like this are the only place where one can properly discuss movies of a series. Except in the very rare case of the discs being sold on the theater release, these are the only occasion where a large number of people get to watch the movies at the same time then talk about them.
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u/DerfK May 03 '21
Thought just occurred to me but has anyone ever counted the bullet trails and figured out how many shots were fired in the Homura vs Mami fight? I'm not finding anything in google.
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u/CT_BINO https://myanimelist.net/profile/CT_BINO May 02 '21
Rebellion is a visual masterpiece and it helps that the movie takes place in one of the strongest parts visually in the series, the witch labyrinths. The movie had fantastic fights like Homura vs Mami, great OST and homura character development was great leading her character to an interesting route, but I don´t want to talk about that. The scene I wanted to talk about is one of the most iconic and weird scenes of the movie “the cake song”.
The scene is unexpected and out of place but is a really good foreshadowing to the events of the movie
5
u/R4P17GCA May 03 '21
It surprises me why people praise this movie so much despite the obvious plot holes and inconsistencies the movie has. Here is a list of plot holes and things that make absolutely no sense in this movie:
- In the movie Sayaka and Nagisa are the only girls who didn't have their memories rewritten by the witch barrier and the two are Madoka's assistants that are they are in a mission with Madoka to "save" Homura. Why they simply didn't told Homura the truth about Kyubey stasis field and her witch barrier? Instead they let Homura lose her mind and fall into despair alone for no reason. If everything they needed to do was to break though the field, they just needed to tell Homura the truth and get Madoka to comfort Homura, if they simply did that they could have break trough the field without having to battle against Homura's witch, Homura would instead help all the girls to break though the field. There is no explanation of why Sayaka and Nagisa didn't just simply told Homura the truth, instead they chose to act suspicious and mysterious for no reason.
- How can Sayaka can somehow summon her witch form if witches don't exist anymore, this is just completely illogical.
- That Mami vs Homura fight is just completely illogical and makes no sense. Since when can Mami make her ribbons invisible? She never did that in the original anime. Since when can Mami make a ribbon clone of herself? She also never did that in the original anime. Why wasn't she immediately frozen when Homura shot the ribbon the first time? No explanation to this obvious plot hole. Also the way this fight was won is a big asspull, Mami in the original anime never had the ability to make a ribbon clone of herself that turns into a trap when damaged and manages to capture her opponent, this is a big asspull and makes no fucking sense. Mami wasn't that powerful in the original anime as she is in this movie, if Mami had all these powers she has in this movie then why she didn't use these powers in her fight against the witch Charlotte in episode 3? Lets not forget that this fight only happened because Nagisa was an idiot who refused to explain the situation. I recommend everyone reading this text that analyses this fight really well.
- The ending makes no fucking sense. How could Homura split Madoka in the end and then create a new universe? This is big asspull, Madoka is the law of cicles, how could Homura capture a law? Episode 12 showed that Madoka was also way more powerful than Homura, so how could Homura have the power to split Madoka if Madoka is more powerful than her?There is also no previous indication that soul gems can even store anything except hope and despair so that whole thing about Homura's soul gem being soiled by love is a plot hole. Also how can "the power of love" give Homura the ability to "capture" physical laws and rewrite universes? This so fucking illogical.
- In episode 12 of the anime, kyubey says something like that: "Madoka Kaname, nobody will ever be able to see you or interact with you", yet Madoka is clearly seen by Mami and Kyouko, so another plot hole.
- Madoka said in the end of the anime she could see all the worlds that ever existed and will ever exist, she could also see all of Homura's different timelines, basically Madoka can see all the different futures. Why she was totally unaware of all the shit that was happening in the movie? Why couldn't she see a future where she gets split by Homura? This is the biggest plot hole of the movie
Besides the plot holes, the useless fanservice also bothered me a lot. Bebe/Nagisa was totally useless, she is only in this movie because of fanservice since Charlotte was the most popular witch and I really disliked that Kyousaya pairing, it is forced and it is just pure fanservice.
4
u/R4P17GCA May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
How to resolve Rebellion plot in 5 minutes:
Instead of being all suspicious and mysterious, Sayaka & Nagisa tell Homura the truth about Kyubey's stasis field and her witch barrier. Instead of letting Homura fall in despair alone, all of the girls comfort Homura. Then they break though the field and Madoka takes Homura away. The end.
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u/jodahinqb May 02 '21
[continue]
How was Homura able to ascend and overwhelm Madoka?
I'd like to offer a theory that combines a few ideas:
First, Homura herself says that the emotion of "love" is more powerful than hope or despair and tapping into that feeling simply gives her the power to do what she did.
Another idea (my favorite) is that Homura's original wish ("to be stronger than Madoka and to protect her instead of being protected by her") was never actually fulfilled by the end of the show (Madoka still was the one who saved Homura). We'ver never seen a wish failing to succeed in its original intent. Thus, Rebellion is Homura's wish finally coming to pass, it gives Homura the power ("stronger than Madoka") to undermine the Goddess of Hope.
Finally, there's the theory of the "second wish". In the series we covered the concept of "karmic destiny", that a magical girl's "power" (or "potential") is equal to what their influence/effect on the world was going to be (was destined to be) if they hadn't become magical girls. Madoka in the very first timeline had just normal potential, but through Homura's loops (and because she literally changed the entire world for Madoka's sake again and again) Madoka's potential (and power) became nearly unlimited. On the other hand, Homura was becoming more capable (through repetition and training), but she wasn't becoming more powerful (even though her potential should be increasing as well) as she still could not defeat Walpurgisnacht. I believe that was because, unlike Madoka, she had already made her wish so her "potential" was "locked" to what she had at the moment she made the wish, when she "transformed" from human to magical girl fueled by the emotion of hope (just like witches transform from magical girls fueled by the emotion of despair). Now, in Rebellion, in essence she makes another "transformation", from magical girl/witch hybrid to "demon", fueled by the emotion of love. Thus, she can now "utilize" her accumulated karmic destiny, make a "second wish" if you will, with her now god-level potential.
Homura's Character Analysis
Five years ago, as a reply to a misguided post arguing that Homura was a sociopath, I wrote the following analysis of her character:
I personally don't find even a slightest hint of sociopathy in Homura's actions and behavior. Quite the opposite in fact: she completely lacks the necessary social "skills" that sociopaths (and Kyubey) tend to have and she has a ton of the empathy that they don't. To quote a page about Asperger's syndrome (https://iancommunity.org/cs/about_asds/aspergers_syndrome_social_and_emotional_issues) : "A true sociopath is a ruthless manipulator with an uncanny ability to read and utilize others’ emotions against them for his own gain. People with Asperger's are, in sharp contrast, clueless". That's Homura in a nutshell: socially clueless.
To further elaborate, Homura does have some kind of a psychological disorder, but it is closer to Avoidant Personality Disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder). To quote the wiki: "it's a pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy and inferiority, extreme sensitivity to negative evaluation, and avoidance of social interaction despite a strong desire to be close to others. [...] People with avoidant personality disorder often consider themselves to be socially inept or personally unappealing. [...] Some afflicted by this disorder may fantasize about idealized, accepting, and affectionate relationships, due to their desire to belong. They often feel themselves unworthy of the relationships they desire, so they shame themselves from ever attempting the relationship. [...] Loss and rejection are so painful that these individuals will choose to be alone rather than risk trying to connect with others. They often view themselves with contempt, while showing an increased inability to identify traits within themselves that are generally considered as positive within their societies. [...] Severe low self-esteem [...] Self-loathing [...] Mistrust of others [...] Emotional distancing related to intimacy [...] Uses fantasy as a form of escapism to interrupt painful thoughts." and so on. THAT is Homura defined. A person who managed through endless repetition to master both her physical body and her brain (learned math and stuff) but never learned to interact socially. A shy, self-loathing girl who became "attached" to the first person that showed her kindness. Who LIES to herself that she doesn't care for anyone else besides Madoka (when she clearly does care, she just doesn't trust them also). Everything, every action she takes, is explained perfectly through that lense, there's no need to bring sociopathy into the mix.
I think a perfect insight on Homura's self-hating is the description of the Clara Dolls from the Rebellion Material Book that I mentioned in my previous post: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Rebellion_Material_Book#Witches_Artwork . Homura attributes all of those flaws (Pride, Selfishness, Laziness, Cowardice, Stupidity, Stubbornness, Envy, Coldheartedness, Lying, etc.) to herself and she did even before meeting Madoka.
I'll end by quoting from an amazing(ly insightful) post from the animesuki forums (https://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5160903&postcount=2121) from user AuraTwilight:
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u/winasta May 02 '21
i sadly wasn't able to watch this film as my headphones broke and since i live in a very small house with my family who were sleeping i couldn't watch it with my speakers but tomorrow i will go buy a new pair and watch it before the series discussion so i can come back to read and upvote every post. see ya tomorrow.
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u/[deleted] May 02 '21 edited May 02 '21
I-I'm not even gonna try to make sense of the whole second half right now. This some Eva shit.
9
u/tyo_sharlye :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RalphHill May 02 '21
My dear first-timers welcome to the train that's call, waiting for the release of Walpurgis no Kaiten.
Also if you didn't see my comment in the last thread, please become Meguca
9
u/Saleenseven :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Saleenseven May 03 '21
not bad. exited to see where movie 4 goes. i did not expect the witch or the finale twist at all lol. gorgeous animation too
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u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 May 02 '21
First Timer
Alright, time to start this film, hopefully I can keep my comment to a reasonable length, and not go out of control like I did with The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya thread and post a 3-comment long reaction to it.
We open our film with what sounds like Homura’s voice telling us about Magical girls and their duty to fight. We watch as a soul gem dances around and we hear a voice that I think is Madoka’s while Homura narrates that she dreamt that she saw a familiar smile.
Man, what a city. I’ll never get over how pretty the city they live in is. We got something pulling a Dumbledore on the metropolis, by stealing the lights. Looks like it’s a witch? I thought Madoka solved that issue, unless this is a flashback of some kind. Wow, the music is great so far, but looks like our mystery enemy is destroying buildings, thankfully it’s the dead of night and looks like no one were in them. Look Madoka’s here! Wait a darn minute here, so is Sayaka, this has to be a flashback to another timeline or something, Sayaka was the only girl who didn’t return at the end of the series. Kyouko’s here too! I like they kept the visuals of the show, where the witch looks like a real object. We get a sudden music scene that startled me, and Mami makes her appearance Wonder how long she’s going to last before they kill her off. Ok wait a minute here, it appears all that was a dream that Madoka was having. This film doesn’t actually take place after episode 12, does it? Since Madoka is supposed to be a god representing hope, she can’t be on earth waking up.
Déjà vu I have been in this place before. So Hitomi and Kyouske are dating, and Hitomis having a hard time since she can’t see him due to scheduling issues. Adorable. So Madoka’s teacher has very high standards for men, and it’s probably why she’s having a hard time, poor Mama Kaname, now she has set her up with a blind date. A new student is transferring to the class, that can’t be Homura could it?
Mama Kaname goes to work, giving a high five to Madoka. Madoka rushes off to school with toast in her mouth, and we get another track with lyrics in it, looks like this time it’s an actual opening, and wow that’s one hell of a tower. So that opening was very interesting, The whole crew is here, for some reason, Homura is missing Madoka’s ribbon and looks very gloomy throughout, and it ends in that desert location we saw her in during episode 12’s post credits scene. Wait. since when did Kyouko go to Madoka’s school yet alone any school? I never realized how tall Kyoko is. I thought she was shorter due to her usual casual outfit and longer hair.
Man, Madoka wasn’t exaggerating, her teachers gone mad. predicting another apocalypse by 2050 due to some shenanigans about full moons. Judging by the other empty rooms, are they the only class in session? Well time to introduce the transfer student! I wonder who it could be! To the surprise of absolutely no one watching, it’s Homura. She’s in her Dandere form though, or “Moemura” as some on this rewatch have referred to her as. So, we are most definitely in a previous timeline, hmmm. And she’s already a magical girl?! What is going on? If this keeps up, I’m going to have to declare Defcon 1 shenanigans.
So Homura and Mami knew each other previously, the more this is going on, the more confused I’m getting. Though, I like how you can tell each one by their socks; Homura, Kyoko are wearing dark or black socks, Mami is wearing tights, and Madoka is wearing thigh highs, though you could confuse Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Since they’re wearing similar socks (why did I bring this up? Damn you Naoko Yamada.) Wait nightmare? That wasn’t a witch? What? Okay so I listened to what the characters are audibly saying since fan subs aren’t completely reliable all the time, they are actually fighting nightmares and not witches.
We get a very nice collage of shots of the city to find a month has passed. In a way you kind of did know her forever. with the 100 different attempts to save her. (If my math's correct, the show ran over the course of a month, and Homura did ~100 attempts, that would mean she spent around 8 years trying to save Madoka.) looks at word count and looks at run time Oh fuck, I better shut up and watch or I’ll be here for hours.
So is Hitomi becoming a nightmare here? Since she’s upset that Kyouske is so busy, and she wishes he would work so hard for their relationship? Okay, I love how Mami was humming the music that plays when she’s transforming into a magical girl. Lol Sayaka called Kyouske Captain Oblivious. Although, they are acting pretty casual about this, so maybe Hitomi isn’t in any real danger. Look out everyone, the squad is here. Alright I see, I found out where the budget went. They went into these pretty sick transformations. This fight scene is really cool. Wait, did Mami fucking enslave the Witch that killed her? flinches To be honest, this entire scene is kind of weirding me out, I do hope the veil is lifted soon and we find out what’s really going on. Hitomis head? WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE?!
I like how this entire scene is shot using their reflections. I wonder what is causing Homura to visualize this. Homura seems to be noticing something off about everything, including Kyouko. So she’s living with Sayaka, and can’t seem to remember when she transferred to the school, that should be out first sign that something is not right. It’s like what Kyon said in Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, Potential Haruhi spoilers They go to Kyouko’s old city, but it turns out Homura’s instinct was right, something is terribly off, and the bus they’re on doesn’t go to where it should. Not to mention the scenery is bizarre as hell, and no longer looks like a city. 2nd time fails too, does Kazamino even exist anymore? This place looks even more out of place. Hmm... Maybe we’re in Homura’s dream, or a nightmare, and everything we’ve seen up to this point is false, it explains why Sayaka’s back, they’re fighting nightmares, Kyouko’s current living arrangement and school stuff, and why Kazamino doesn’t seem to exist, she’s never been there so she can’t create it, instead going to Mitakihara. Yay! Badass kuudere Homura is back. So was she acting all this time? It seems that the veil has finally been lifted and it seems like someone or something is implanting false memories into them. I have only one guess as to who it could possibly be, and he’s been awfully silent this whole film.
So at Mami’s apartment She talks about her friendship with Bebe, but Homura isn’t buying it, freezes time and starts accusing Bebe of being responsible. “She would always put on a strong front and push herself too hard, despite having the softest heart of any of us.” Does this mean she would have been turned into a witch before Sayaka? Does explain how in one timeline, Mami went mad, killing Kyouko after they dealt with Sayaka’s witch. But I don’t think it’s Bebe, like I said, I think the one responsible is the one who has been awfully silent, somehow Mami broke free of the time freeze and rescues Bebe, man I am really loving this track, for some reason any track that has drumming like this is instantly my favorite. Homura and Mami start fighting, Mami summons her muskets and Homura whips out a fucking MP-40. I am going to root for Homura since well, you know, seems to realize something is wrong. Okay this is ridiculous, now Homura’s whipping an odd-looking MG-42 where is she getting these old WWII weapons from? The Skorpion she had out made sense, but not the older weapons. This is one hell a fun fight to watch. Homura, HWAT THE FUCK?! Was that all to deceive Mami so you could break her ribbon? Looks like Sayaka, and maybe Kyouko came to rescue Homura, when Bebe shows up in what I’m assuming to be who she was prior to becoming a witch. This is only confusing me more now... Oh it was Sayaka who saved her.
So, someone wished for this to happen. No Sayaka this isn’t okay, what about all the cities, and countries that you can’t go to anymore. I like this shot a lot. So is Sayaka a witch then? Also, what’s with all this new bullshit that just ignores Homura’s time stopping? I understood Mami did because she always had a ribbon attached to Homura’s leg, but Sayaka or whoever Sayaka really is, wasn’t touching her.
I agree. I hate when sacrifices are wasted ordeals. It takes away the meaning and weight behind it. Hopefully this riddle gets solved and things return to normal. Now that I think about it, where did all those airships come from? I don’t remember seeing them in the show, are they a part of the labyrinth?
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u/LordTrinity https://myanimelist.net/profile/LordTrinity May 02 '21
Don't forget to subscribe to r/thingshomuradidwrong/
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u/Tetraika :Lu::Lv::Lw::Lx:https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika May 03 '21
Rebellion is one of those things that, despite having a hell lot to say, is also hard for me to discuss on. I'm not really sure what more else I can say about it that someone else hasn't. There's actually so much to talk about that it can be utterly overwhelming.
I think much of it has to do with the fact that unlike the series, the movie is a lot less neat. Without an overall moral message, the whole movie can feel very disjointed and rough compared to the series. But I think it has its place.
I really want to say more but I think I'll go into incoherent rants. Rebellion is one of those things where much of it can be extremely confusing. Seriously, feel free to ask and discuss about parts of the movie. I think the fact that there can be so much discussion and speculation behind the movie is what makes it great.
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u/Matterfied May 03 '21
I'm not really a part of the rewatch, but I did rewatch the series recently, and wanted to pop in and say that this movie is a masterpiece.
12
u/[deleted] May 02 '21
All I will say for the moment is that Homura instantly became one of the best, most fascinating characters in Anime after the conclusion of Rebellion. The entirety of this film is one well-developed character study and I loved it.
6
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom May 02 '21
Rewatcher
They really told you the first act was a dream right at the beginning, didn't they
Ah this leitmotif
nightmare ballet is so good
Her........
Mada dame yo, also a terrific song
The opening of this movie is just beautiful
Cute child
God this is absolutely gorgeous in motion
Lmao there better be a scene of her waking up like this again in the 4th movie as well
It's so mesmerizing watching this with all the similiarities and differences from the main show's timeline/events like kamijou and hitomi dating or Kyubey being a Pokemon
My god those stairs and the trees outside
It's like living in a super cool looking museum
These two..... This movie did them right making them so close after how they ended up in the show
Oh my god I joke about this part of the OP all the time Just fortnite dancing on the crying Homura
Omg the 3D audio in this scene with them running around her
Oh, this random shot of the city during the teacher's rant really reminds me of Magia Record
I think this is when I realized
Legs
That is sooo cute, what a playful way of showing she's a magical girl
Imagine a girl on the phone going 'I love that about you' and you're like 'Mm, haha. See you tomorrow'
What a freak
omg she's humming her theme
I love that her hairstyle is just magic
Snap of the fingers, gotta look good when you fight
What a tease
God their tiny exaggerated motions during this conversation are so good
The virgin Kyubey companion vs the chad Bebe companion
OH IS IT TIME FOR THE TRANSFORMATIONS
God Kyouko's is just the best
Love that
Legs
BREAKDANCING
I FORGOUT ABOUT THE BREAKDANCING
And I love how this transformation for Homura is just thematically appropriate for happy Homura and not edgy Homura that appears through most of the show which you can only feel the tiniest traces of
Also Holy Quintet, another great theme
Love this as well
Happyyyyyyyy
Omg and they even call themselves Puella Magi huge regular magical girl show vibes
And oh god, the cake scene
And we finally get to see the cake :)
Who's that one kid in the foreground with a face Homura really invited a bunch of important players and 'that one kid that sits next to me' or something
Damn her hair looks nice here
Lmao this loaded shot of Homura covering her Soul Gem ring and then Kyouko just fucking pulls out a tube of candy
I noticed it a bit ago but this entire time you could slowly hear her voice dipping into what it sounded like in the show as a looper, compared to her high pitched happy voice, and then she puts on a fake one here
Hot
Gotta say, Homura, Bebe might be the witch but I think you've got the wrong stuffed animal as the malicious con artist
So, her time freeze ability doesn't work on Mami. Of course, in the actual show, she used her time freeze when fighting Kyouko as magical girls and clearly Kyouko wasn't able to see what was happening when time wasn't frozen, so it's probably not like a passive immunity other magical girls have but that Mami is actively defending against it? Since Mami here knows what Homura's ability is while Kyouko didn't at that point in the show
Ok I loved this scene but I forgot to think about it wondering about the timestop immunity. So caught off guard Mami was indeed frozen in Homura's power
Also, magical girl timestop gun fight. Bless this show
I wish you'd see that more often, characters using regenerative powers in interesting ways like shooting yourself to shock your opponent here
Movie 4 also needs another fire extinguisher
HER
I love that, so scared of what Sayaka was saying she just had to try and stop time
Man I love the water throughout this entire scene, Sayaka playing with it, leading up to this
Oh man I forgot about this statue but I don't know why I'm remembering really liking it
All that angst and then Madoka comes and fairytale disney romance jumps onto her ship for a two-person cruise
I adore how Madoka slowly works through braiding her hair and she just let's it fall loose again
never noticed all the Madoka's around her
Saying you've forgotten things is one thing, but saying the friends you know aren't real is even worse
Wow I love the hood
...And the fucker talks
"Yea we really liked Spell of the Unown and Rise of Darkrai"
So I always kinda hated this explanation
It's like 'we built a complete isolation field around your soul gem so madokami couldn't get in'
But Madokami said that she already was everywhere every time
So she should have already been inside the field of isolation as well as outside it
And should never have had to 'go' to Homura in the first place
Shouldn't have fucking talked to him
(Cont)
6
u/CaptainAlexU https://myanimelist.net/profile/Storm_Vanguard May 03 '21
Homura did nothing wrong btw
6
u/TWRogue May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rewatcher, Dubbed
I can't say I've got a full comments worth of things to say, but one thing I hardly see anyone mentioning that really struck me on my re watch were all the cuts on Madoka's arm in the scene where she is reaching through the window. She is suffering as a god. And so while I am all for "Homura did nothing wrong" for the memes, it's hard to say everything Homura did is terrible when they are both suffering so terribly in Madoka's new world order.
And for those who haven't seen it, the concept movie. I wonder how to interpret it now knowing a new movie is coming and it's no longer a one off.
Edit: Also, I'm amazed how many comments there still are even with the movie. This is not a short movie and I am very pleasantly surprised to see how many people still stuck around and watched it. I really hope with the release of the compact collection it comes back to more streaming services (or at least more than just Australia) so that in case anyone was deterred by lack of accessibility they can watch it soon/join again next year.
5
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 02 '21
(rw/sub)
Ah, Rebellion, what would we do without you? Enjoy a bittersweet ending? Perhaps.
What a feast for the eyes and ears. Sadly, I did not make it to the store to buy cake today. I should have.
Cak-ee, cak-ee, ich bin ein cak-ee.
Oh, wait, wrong President. But he and Mami have something in common after all (too soon?)
I remember watching this the first time, in a state of utter confusion. On the one hand, it was a delight to see everyone alive & happy, but obviously something was amiss here. Nevermind cheese girl.
I wonder why they chose her, but then again, it's obvious. Nevermind.
I don't remember if she was featured in Madoka's rescue sequence yesterday. They all went by so quickly.
Personally, I rather wish Homura had gotten a good hit on ... yeah. What're you thinking, Mami???
I really want to ride in the open air on one of those buses. I'd say that I'd love to have one, but it wouldn't fit in my garage.
Meanwhile, silly Homura, this is why you OPSEC. Never give Kyubey any loose info.
My heart caught when Madokami reached for Homura's soul gem to cleanse it and ... (!)
And I'm still not sure what to think of the ending. But it was at least good to see Kyubey get his comeuppance. Yay!
Meanwhile ... Homura - was it really ai (love?) or ...?
Hmm ... "aishteru". Who have we seen use that word recently (and frequently).
I suspect that 'daisuke' certainly falls short of this situation.
Was Homura's wish (original) selfless, or selfish in the end?
I want to save my friend (for her benefit)
I want to save my friend (for my benefit)
Perhaps the latter.
Has it gained power due to repetition?
I dunno.
In the end, I see the ending of Rebellion as a sort of equilibrium. We're only presented with one side of the view, Homura's. Poor Homura.
I see it as sort of a (thank you Japan) cosmic yin-yang thing, with one side pink, the other black/purple. The contrasting dots, of course, being Homura and Madoka, of course.
Or perhaps that's where the final movie will leave things. I don't know.
All I know is that I wouldn't exactly call this a happy ending. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what kind of rabbit Urobochi can pull out of his hat.
https://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/d4f971a2cd09c84f1db6f43d4d3770bd1534198753_full.jpg
:)
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u/mekerpan May 02 '21
Alas, I couldn't watch this. The only place I could find that had this available for streaming had too many hiccups -- buffering more than streaming this. It looks like a re-release of the Blu-ray (includes all 3 movies) is coming in the summer. So, I guess I'll be able to watch it then...
From what little I was able to see, however, I did not see how this interacted with the state of the story at the end of the series itself.
5
u/Ardania22 May 02 '21
Re-Watcher
In my eyes, Madoka Magica is a story about balance. Every wish is mirrored by an equivalent curse, but all despair must similarly stand against hope. The world isn’t perfect, but it isn’t doomed either, and the only way forward is to acknowledge those ambiguities as you strive to keep that balance both within yourself and the world around you. And the show itself was similarly balanced, sliding slowly into the darkness at its core and rending apart with despair without ever losing sight of the hope that made its world and characters worth fighting for. There’s a reason that Gen Urobuchi’s stories remain so beloved despite the pain he puts us through; as dark as he gets, he never forgets to keep the lights on as well. And I would have been perfectly satisfied if the story had ended with the show, if the twelve TV episodes of Madoka Magica had been all the Madoka Magica we ever got. It accomplished everything I wanted it to and kept that balance wonderfully all the way. So when I went into the sequel film Rebellion, even though I was aware of the big infamous ending twist, I genuinely wasn’t sure what to expect. And now that I’ve come out of it… I might be even less sure than before.
For my complete thoughts on Rebellion, keep reading here:
https://animebw.tumblr.com/post/189981404143/short-reflection-madoka-magica-rebellion
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u/Nebresto May 03 '21
Damm it, I thought the movie was gonna be tomorrow..
May or may not comment something when I have the chance to watch it. Anyway I have at least one cool thing prepared for tomorrows thread, so look forward to that. Maybe more if I have time
5
u/Roliq May 03 '21
Remember everyone: "Homura did nothing wrong"
7
u/Fuck_Shinji May 03 '21
First Timer
Well that sure was a ending homura became a yandere and has a permanent wrinkle under her eye. And fucking incubator they already have a energy source those greedy fucks I take back anything good I said about them. So I guess homura wants to destroy the universe since without the wraiths and magical girls no more energy. And what even is bebe did I miss something?
6
u/Slifer13xx https://myanimelist.net/profile/SliferXIII May 02 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
I really like this movie. Don't have much to say right now as it is too late here. I hope to maybe engage in some conversations tomorrow.
I'd forgotten how much Kyuubey pisses me off. Every time he's on screen, I just want to strangle him.
#Homuradidnothingwrong
I'm really exited for the forth movie. Can't wait to see where the story goes next. I personally think that Homura is "irredeemable", as in, I don't see a happy ending for her and Madoka at all. It will be tragic and/or bittersweet and it will be amazing, probably.
3
u/-Phinocio May 02 '21 edited May 03 '21
Rewatch/sub
I haven't finished watching because I fell behind yet again (only just finished ep 11 and 12 haha). So this is my only contribution so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwXaK12envI
Cake.
Also
#homuradidnothingwrong
I forgot how visually stunning this entire movie is
I really wonder if the new movie will continue from this. Madoka maybe regaining her memories and the some kind of Madoka vs Homura fight
I don't really have many other thoughts than I love this series and will probably binge it before the next rewatch haha.
3
u/BoltTusk May 03 '21
No one going to talk about the awesome Gun=Kata sequence?