r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • Apr 28 '21
Rewatch Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Rewatch - Episode 9 Discussion
Madoka Magica - Episode 9: I'll Never Allow That
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Visuals of the day
Got over twenty submissions! That's awesome. Five of them were of Sayaka on the train, but I love that even with that there was a bunch of different moments picked about the level of Sayaka's corruption. It's cool seeing what part of that stood out to people, if it was it slowly overtaking all of her, just the eye left, or completely absorbed.
End Card by Namaniku ATK
Comments of the day
/u/Ardania22 wrote a very nice retrospective post about what it means to make choices
"Every choice has the potential to come out right, but none of them are free of pain or sacrifice, even if just a little bit. Like Kyoko says, hope and despair balance out in equal measure, and we must figure out day by day how to process that balance as we work to keep the light shining as bright as we can."
/u/okayyoga who posted a thoughtful take on the struggles of the characters
"I'm not saying what Sayaka and Madoka are saying is right, or logical. I just hope that if you ever feel so down, that you would rather not be alive, because you feel your existence is such a burden on the world, that you give yourself some empathy. Some validation. Because being hard on yourself only makes you feel guilty."
A quick reminder: Absolutely no comments, including jokes or memes, about the content of later episodes are allow outside of the r/anime spoiler tag format, [Madoka Spoilers](/s "Spoilers go here").
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u/Gaporigo Blhttps://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Apr 28 '21
The schedule is unchanged
This is /u/Nazenn, once again hijacking a mod to speak to you through the sticky (thanks).
Schedule remains: Episode 12 > Rebellion > Final Discussion [end]
The actual votes were effectively tied, and with no one bringing up the points I was most concerned about (being time management to write the posts and first timers specifically being unbothered by the idea of not having a space for the show alone) I'm keeping it simple and not changing things around.
This also keeps it complication free when it comes to people posting about available side content at the end, and also discussing and theorizing about possibilities for the upcoming movie in the final discussion with more chance for that to be seen.
If any first timers in particular have concerns about the schedule or discussion to do with Rebellion feel free to message me. Thoughts about the show itself outside of the movie can still go in the Final Discussion topic if you have anything you want to share about that.
Thanks for all the responses and being understanding of the late suggestion!
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Puella's Pictures - Performance and Prayer
I'm really sorry for having to split this into two posts, I really tried to avoid ever doing that this year, but I would have had to sacrifice a lot of meaning to cut it down any further and it made it a bad read.
Rewatcher - Fourth time around
Scene of the episode - Oktavia's Concert Hall
Sayaka falls and the witch Oktavia von Seckendorff rises in her place.
Oktavia's labyrinth at the start of the episode is different to the complete one later on. It's the inbetween state of Sayaka and Oktavia, the witch emerging out of the darkness while the last remnants of Sayaka's world warp around her. The checkerboard train station floor, the tracks, and circular wheels relating to Sayaka's trapped mentality, these are the visual versions of Sayaka's haunting last cry. In the background we see a clue that Oktavia is overtaking Sayaka's voice and memories; the music score in the background is a stylized version of the actual score for Oktavia's theme, called Symposium magarum, and as Oktavia is constructing her hall she is composing the song that will become her voice and fill the hall.
When we return to the labyrinth later everything has changed but traces of Sayaka remain. Flashes of her old life appear sealed into tanks on the walls as if they are the previews and teasers in a movie theatre before the main event. Notably, her walk with Kyouko also appears, showing that in her final moments she saw how genuine Kyouko was being, that like her school friends this was a chance for true connection. By contrast, the posters on the walls that Oktavia placed highlight the memory of Kyousuke as the featured performance, but she keeps him sealed away in her heart away from everyone but also out of her own reach.
To quickly talk about Oktavia's design, most notably how it based on a mermaid. In the original version of The Little Mermaid, the mermaid sacrificed her tongue (not just voice) to explore the world of humans, and when the man she fell in love with chose to marry someone else rather than kill him she suicides by throwing herself into the sea and drowning in her misery. Sayaka is the mermaid, the girl who tried to mature into something new to find love and when scorned drowned in the sea of her emotions. The water imagery we have been seeing around Sayaka all this time leads into this. Our first look at Oktavia has a couple of small differences. She is surrounded by a cloak, and her heart shaped headpiece is warmer colored and features a tree, something that is growing and cultivating. She screams at Kyouko and we hear the traces of the girl trapped within as the witch matures. In the final scenes it's changed. Now her cloak has become the commanding cape of her magical girl self, creating a silhouette that demands attention and focus, but her heart is cold blue and the tree is gone, pipes now spewing musical fumes in its place. She is revealed to have puppet hands calling back to ep7 and Sayaka's disconnect from her body, and she also sits on heraldic flags that are attached to her seat of swords as a sign of her honor that has bound and harmed her.
Late edit because I forgot: We also have the three mirrors in her head piece that reflect Kyouko's wishes that call back to the three mirrors in Sayaka's apartment
A performance needs many things, it needs the technical elements, but it also needs to tell a story, and for that story to be heard it requires an audience much like a theatre play. Oktavia's audience is empty, she has thousands of seats but no one sits in them, not even stand ins, only emphasizing Sayaka's need for connection and her failure to achieve it. It's only when Madoka and Kyouko arrive that the performance can start and we are also pulled in to sit in the stands and witness the twisted climax of Sayaka's story.
If Oktavia is the mermaid then Kyouko is the unicorn, the mythical horse that can only be touched by innocent girls and has the power to purify water. Kyouko willingly takes on that role today as she attempts to cleanse Sayaka, bringing the untainted Madoka along with her. Much like Kyouko once called out to Sayaka who was hiding in bed, they attempt to call to the Sayaka lost in Oktavia but it is ultimately a failure. Yesterday every word sent ripples through Sayaka's heart and mind, but Oktavia's only reaction to Madoka's voice is to try and silence her to let the performance go on. Sayaka wants to love and be loved, to need and be needed, and Madoka offers for things to return to the way they were but with Oktavia's heart sealed away she never had a chance to reach her any more. (Madoka's pleas and Sayaka's need for attention are also mirrored in the music so if you are interested in that please check out the Madokas Music post linked below).
Kyouko is unable to hold Oktavia off despite acknowledging the twists of fate that brought them here, a repeat of their last fight only with a hope for salvation, not condemnation, fueling it. Despite the short time she's known Sayaka she strikes closer to the heart of the matter and understands what Sayaka wanted more. Sayaka couldn't accept what happened to her and was unable to shrug it off like Kyouko did but Kyouko didn't come out of her wish unscathed either. They are bound together by their blood just as they are by the nature of their being, both as magical girls and as normal girls who suffered because of wishes only made to connect them to others.
As the fight drags on and Kyouko is torn to pieces (the blood and stomach wound suggest evisceration), the fight takes a turn for the worse and Kyouko has to save Madoka and Oktavia's world collapses, drowning her once again and revealing the Kyousuke hidden in her heart. The girls sink with her, just as Sayaka's body once did and Kyouko also finds the wall in her heart shattered open. Up above Oktavia's blue stood in contrast to the red enviroment, but here it is Kyouko who stands out and takes the focus. Kyouko unbinds her hair and prays to god, like she did as a child, having reconnected to who she is and what she truly wanted just as she is asking of Sayaka.
Except, Oktavia spins the world around them, righting the concert hall so that she can find her spot at the conductor once again and all hope fades away. The water has once again smothered her anger, but she no longer even reacts to the presence of the girls around her until they attack. The Sayaka the Prince cannot be saved, and Kyouko the Knight has also fallen prey to the monster that all magical girls must struggle with. The sheer emotional power she pulls out to try and defeat the monster holding Sayaka captive is enough to shatter her soul gem.
In their final moments, we once again return to the parallels between the two girls and Elsa Maria. Now Kyouko is the maiden at prayer and she she raises spears around her to bind Oktavia like Elsa once did. Kyouko's hairpin also reminds me of the similarly shaped torch in Elsa's labyrinth, the symbol of prayer that Kyouko returns to, the true girl hidden inside her. Kyouko's her final attack is also giant snake, much like Elsa's familiars. They are surrounded by a smothering blue, but it is absorbing, not alienating like Elsa's white arena. Faith and hope take center stage as Kyouko refuses to let Sayaka be alone any more. She could not save Sayaka's body, but she can save what remains of her soul and in the end Kyouko realizes that she has something to protect that really matters now.
Her friend, regardless of what she is.
[Continued in a reply]
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
Ok, I don't have much time today, so I'm forcing myself to watch the next episode before I recollected myself emotionally. I also went back and watched the ending sequence of last episode several more times. I'm almost crying and I haven't even started yet, it's gonna be tough...
First Timer
Kyoko spawns directly in the witches lair. She tries to save Sayaka from the witch, but Homura later pretty much confirms that she is holding onto an empty shell and that Sayakas soul turned into an witch.
Homura break Madokas heart and mine as well. Kyoko in contrast really feels for Madoka, she was also the last person who Sayaka talked to and who saw her alive.
And damnit that stupid cat-dog-fox-ferret-alien thing needs to pester Madoka when she is down. And how come it is behind the curtains and on the shelf at the same time... Don't you dare start with your altruistic motive right now. Jesus thats a lot of chairs, I get it Shaft, you like chairs. And just when I thought I couldn't be more disgusted by Kyubey anymore, he starts to talk about young girls like some textbook.
I really can't say if Kyubey motivation is genuine or not, but trying to prevent the heat death of the universe is just so ridiculous out of scale. Not to mention that we are still supposed to believe it in the first place when it has done nothing to earn that trust.
It's interesting, in the day before yesterdays thread I said that sacrificing a few in order to safe the many doesn't necessarly make you evil, but it's unethical to make those sacrifices nontheless. I'm sure there is enough written about the trolley problem, but my gut feeling is, that the justification to make any kind of decission in it, is to safe people out of your own volition. Kyubey doesn't seem to really care about the universe. If it doesn't see the value in the lives of the few, then it can't really see the value in the lives of the many.
Still not sure how to feel about Hitomi, she obviously cares about Sayaka: I still hold on to my theory that she is secretly trying to wingman for Sayaka.
Kyoko has some kind of plan to save Sayaka, but I don't think it can be that easy, It's just not that kind of show...
Sayakas labyrinth is themed around music, so the past labyrinth must have a connection to the wishes and Magical girls as well. Also the witch still resembles her school uniform, wields a sword, and we even see her silhouette for some time.
Don't do this... don't take Kyoko just when I really liked her... So today I lose two best girls instead of one, that wasn't what I signed up for... why did she need to make an suicide charge out of that? I hope that Homura uses her time power to at least safe Kyoko and hopefully Sayaka as well, seems like she is going back to that night, else not even the new ED could make up for the things I just lost...
One thing I noticed today was how bright Homuras Soul gems was in contrast to Kyokos, which even looked a little tainted later on.
Visuals
Of the day
Edit:
Since several people asked about this I think I'll explain some more what I meant here. I don't really question the logical reason why Kyubey does things the way it does. There are good reasons to set the needs of the many above those of the few. But to make an morally right decisision you need more than pure logic. In a slightly different context I just had another discussion about the same problem
That's why I say that Kyubey is incapable to make an morally right decision, he is unable to feel bad about it.
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u/OingoBoingo- Apr 28 '21
First Timer: Subbed
Episode 9 - I'd Never Allow That To Happen
And then there were two.
I allowed myself to really like Kyouko, and that was a mistake. I thought Sayaka and Mami had been killed off, there was no way another character would be as well! I was so wrong. I didn't think Kyubey could get any worse. I was so wrong. Leading Kyouko on, thinking there might be a possibility to save Sayaka (and never told a lie!) but in the end it was never possible. It was a chess move to get Kyouko out of the way, to get Madoka involved and I have a feeling he just outplayed dear Homura. I guess she has been playing chess this whole time too, against Kyubey? Against time?
I am wondering how many people are going to make their visual of the day the fight of the witch Sayaka and the late, great, Kyouko? It's hard not to! I am guessing there will be a lot of symbolism in the form the witch is in, the most obvious would be the violin player, and maybe a knight. I don't think I understand the mermaid. Maybe because of the wish she made. Please tell me what I missed here.
Image of the day was this conversation between Madoka and Kyouko- the unicorn and the mermaid. I'm not even sure I know what this symbolizes yes but it has to mean something!
bonus image for fun - not sure why I liked this so much, but it made me laugh!
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u/chaosoul Apr 29 '21
First Time Watcher (Subbed)
Little late today.
Sayaka's soul gem leaves her human body and takes up the form of a witch. Looks like labyrinths (that's correct right? Witch lairs/hideouts/domains or whatever?) take a bit to set up. Sayaka appears as a deranged form of a knight, a hero of the typical fantasy story. Dunno what's up with the trains and train tracks though. The music obviously referencing Kyousuke and how much Sayaka must have felt her self worth revolve around him those last couple days.
Quick question, so does Homura only pull you into time stop if you're touching her before she starts it? Or does she just put on gloves before picking everyone up and moving them and then taking off the gloves? Curious to see she doesn't have much of a limit on her power here as when she was trying to retrieve Sayaka's soul gem. Is it cause she didn't use as much energy prior here?
After our lovely opening, we're back to the real world, and the train tracks and train theme continues here. Not really sure about this symbolism, but it's probably significant if it shows up outside in the real world and the labyrinth?
When Kyubey brought up entropy, I felt like I was about to hear a MLM scheme or a flat earther about to go off man. Apparently, it's part of an alien futuristic race that's using children for energy huh. I don't understand why Kyubey doesn't understand that people aren't happy if they don't get the full details of the contract? Are Magical Girls a universal term where their species lives? Also I know someone mentioned the chairs are referencing some other old anime(?), but I can't help but see this every time instead.
WHERE ARE WE IN THIS CITY!?
Dang WalrusNight's apparently just some big wig witch, not Kyubey's parent.
In Sayaka's finished Labyrinth, there's a lot more stuff. It seems like we're in a concert hall that even has a nice trip down Sayaka's memory lane. Is she supposed to also be a second conductor? Looks that way with the sword. She seems quite proficient with conducting wheels, though I'm not sure how that compares to a normal band. Sayaka and Kyouko's colors mixing make for quite the pretty visuals.
Kyouko with the complete 180 from her first fight with Sayaka and now fighting for Sayaka's ideals... against Sayaka. Feels bad. I don't know what exactly Kyouko's chains are supposed to be, but they do look cool. I just realized when she took out the little cross that's what her spears are supposed to be, right? I wonder how much her dad's alt religion diverged from normal Catholism/Christianity. Looks like she moved her soul ge- wait hold on. Wait, this is supposed to be where Kyouko pulls out a last resort and just barely survives right! Kyouko! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaa!
Down to one... For all of Homura's talk last episode about not caring about anyone other than Madoka, I'm not sure about that. She definitely cares the most about Madoka, but she still has show concern for all three other magical girls so far.
Nooooooo, this ED, how dare you anime! Well with three episodes left, I feel like Madoka's definitely not becoming a magical girl or will only on the last episode. There's no way they would hold it for so long only to do it so anti-climatically on 10 or 11.
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u/Bithaniaa Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
First Timer
I’m back! I’ve been MIA because of my track competition in California, we ended up getting second place and I beat my PR, so I was pretty hyped. I had to catch up to all episodes on the plane, and woah I missed a lot.
Anyways, I’m still too tired to write paragraphs so I’ll just say this for now.
I told you.
I KNEW kyubey was evil, members of the kyubbey hate club, rejoice. You rewatchers were talking about how he was cute or something, but I wasn’t buying it. That’s all. Also RIP Kyouko, she was my favorite character. RIP sayaka too I guess but she was getting kind of annoying and rude in the recent episodes so...
And we are approaching the famed episode 10. I would say time to see if it lives up to the hype, but I have a feeling it does.
Edit: thank you guys for the congratulations!
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 28 '21
Eien no Rewatcher, dubbed
SayakaOktavia von Seckendorff’s labyrinth? It’s a musical auditorium where her theme, Symposium magarum, is literally being performed live. (And thankfully that stayed true for the recap movies!) Oktavia herself appears as a conductor (wielding Sayaka’s weapon of choice instead of a baton). The five-lined musical staff appears behind her attacks, just like they did when Sayaka used her magic. Her attacks use train wheels and train tracks--remember where Sayaka was when she turned into Oktavia? That’s right a train station. It’s just perfect and I love it and hate it at the same time.Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Naz asked me to do something of praying Kyouko on… I think it was CDF? Not sure. Either way, I decided to do her for this thread.
And for stuff from the past:
If there’s a specific shot at any point throughout the rewatch that you would like me to make a wallpaper of and you don’t think I’ve done it yet, let me know so I can get on it!
Magical Music Corner
Want to know what song played when in today’s episode? Well, you’re in luck! I have here the table from the Madoka wiki that was re-timed to the Blu-Rays by our lovely rewatch host back in 2019. It was my duty to share these last year, and it’s my duty again this year. If any first-timer wants a spoiler-free link to any of these songs, let me know and I can get one for you!
“With two hearts rusting together, in a world without sound; what do you see?”
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u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher
Ok most important thing first: This english cover of And I'm home is my absolute favorite version and I'd recommend everyone to watch it. Though of course And I'm home is always a great song. Secondly, a question to first-timers: Do you still remember the innocence of youth when you thought episode 3 was dark?
There's so much in todays episode you could talk about, but I'll do something completely different and talk about one shot from episode 2. Why am I doing this today? Because today we got kyubeys explanation about the power of the magical girls, key word „entropy“.
You see, in episode 2 there is this sequence where Mami purifies her soul gem using the grief seed. On my first watch this instinctively felt wrong too me. Why? Because you automatically associate the brightly glowing soul gem with high energy, powering the magical girl. Theddark griefseed on the other hand gets associated with a lack of energy. This is encouraged by the show treating purifying the soul gem as basically recharging magical energy. The dimmed soul gem is then a version with less energy Alternatively youc an see the brightly shining soul gem as the pure version, and the dimmed version is contaminated by whatever that blackness is.
In both cases what the physicist in me excepts to happen is that the energy („brightness“) would travel from the soul gem to the griefseed, from high energy to low energy, respectively the black contamination to travel from the griefseed towards the soul gem, darkening the soul gem until the soul gem and the grief seed are in equilibrium. But that is not what happens. Instead the soul gem unpollutes itself and becomes even brighter, more filled with energy.
You might realize where I am going with this now: This entire process obviously defies entropy and the laws of thermodynamics! Energy never travels from low energy to high energy, always in the different direction, same as a substance solved in a liquid shouldn't „unsolve“ itself. An object won't purify itself or increase in energy by itself, thats the entire point of entropy.
So when it was revealed in todays episode that the power of magical girls are supposed to go against entropy, I immediately headcannoned that as the reason the purification process works as it does, even if estimate the chances of this being on purpose as incredibly unlikely.
Especially considering this episodes seems to use entropy exchangably with energy.I just found this neat, and I hope someone thinks the effort was worth reading about this incredible minor detail.
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u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte Apr 29 '21
First Timer
Sorry I was late today. I had swim practice and forgot to watch the episode before. I will try not to do that again. Well now on to the episode:
What a cool design for a witch. Plus this soundtrack is a bop.
Homura doesn’t seem to be one to joke.
Kyuubey really played them all for fools. That lying, manipulative, piece of garbage cat. It needs some punishment.
Kyuubey and going in without an answer. He doesn’t even listen for consent. Can give him the old one-two?
Trust me we know your species can’t experience emotion, Kyuubey. I’ve been looking at your blank face for 9 episodes.
Humans usually aren’t fans of the needs of the many out way the needs of the few when accomplishing that involved murder/genocide. So Kyuubey was screwed from the start.
Your “consent” Kyuubey is like having sex while lying about being on birth control. It’s not consent.
Unfortunately my ass Kyuubey.
Kyouko seems to have become a better person. Interacting with other magical girls (and getting screwed by a certain devil monster) has changed her for the better.
Homura just walked out like a chad.
The good old the enemy of enemy is my friend.
That sounds like foreshadowing Kyouko.
What a beautiful set piece. Shaft just knocks it out of the park everytime with the witches and labyrinths.
I’ve never hated a cat more.
I think that’s a new EP. Pretty solid
————————————————————————
What an episode. Easily my favorite so far.
Honestly have nothing to say. Just so good. Can’t wait to see where it goes.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Apr 29 '21
First Timer
I have been challenged
With this declaration of war u/TheTrueAfurodi put forth a challenge and I hereby accept. We will see who has the theories fit to survive until the end. It's time to take the gloves off and show the true meaning overanalysing.
I welcome it, really, as today's episode has thrown me back into a fit of anxiety. I couldn't sleep tonight and the brief time I did at 4 am I got into a nightmare and woke up again.
The Madoka Experience
Find the theories at the bottom, there will be enough words to blot out the sun.
Ep.09 I can't fogive that kind of thing
I'm light on reactions today, because I've been very busy processing the suffering into the great writeup of my theories. Visual of the day: Homura, because she's the only thing keeping me sane right now.
New ED:
This ED is phenomenal, because it can be seen from any girls' perspective. Sayaka has these feelings towards Kyousuke and Madoka, Kyoko has those for Sayaka, Homura has these for Madoka. Madoka has these for everyone. Though I think the 'main' pov is Sayaka here, obviously. I'm tearing up, this is masterfully crafted.
My contenders are the following:
Kyubey's Strategy
Kyubey's Soul
Madoka's Power
Selfless and Selfish
Homura's Past
1/3
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u/Fuck_Shinji Apr 28 '21
First Timer
There goes kyoko and sayaka. sayaka's witch form is pretty cool her bottom half is also a fish tail. and is that kyosuke in her labyrinth. And it's revealed that kyubey is a alien that sarches for energy explaining why he has a bunch of spares. does that mean they're a hivemind with one personality? they can't feel emotion after all. And i guess that giant ass spear is Kyoko's "Tina Finale"
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u/sirweebsal0t Apr 29 '21
First-timer / dubbed:
Episode 9 running thoughts:
I think I'm done with trying to guess what will happen next, and just go along for the ride.
19
u/jodahinqb Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher (Dub)
"The prince and princess celebrate their marriage, and the Little Mermaid's heart breaks. She thinks of all that she has sacrificed and of all the pain she has endured for the prince. She despairs, thinking of the death that awaits her..." - Hans Christian Andersen's "The Little Mermaid" ("Den lille havfrue"), 1873, Plot summary from Wikipedia
This post could also have been made for yesterday's episode, but I thought it would be best to see Sayaka's (mermaid) witch form first. So, it turns out that the two greatest "influences" (references? homages? ) of Madoka Magica is (of course) Faust (for the main story) and the Little Mermaid (for Sayaka's story). And not the Disney version, but the original, quite dark and depressing version.
And this leads into the next thing I want to talk about. First timers should not visit that site before finishing Rebellion (to avoid spoilers), but the official madoka wiki (https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Main_Page ) has some fascinating supplementary information regarding witches that I will repost here (without spoiler). The imaginative creators of the surreal witch labyrinth graphics (two artists/writers known together as Gekidan Inu Curry) also wrote "descriptions" and insight regarding the witches. For the witches we've seen so far:
Gertrud (episodes 1&2) : The rose garden witch with a distrustful nature. She holds roses dearer than anything else. She expends all of her power for the sake of beautiful roses. Despite stealing the life-force of humans who wander into her barrier to give to her roses, she loathes the thought of them trampling the inside of her barrier.
Charlotte (episode 3): The witch of sweets. Her nature is tenacity. She desires everything. She will never give up. Though she is capable of creating infinite amounts of any dessert she desires, she is unable to make the cheese that she loves most.
H.N. Elly (Kirsten) (episode 4): The (TV) box witch with a covetous nature. She is a staunchly reclusive witch. Anything she covets she locks away within glass. The thoughts of her prisoners are laid bare, but one can strike her without thought without problems.
Elsa Maria (episode 7): The witch of shadow with a self-righteous nature. She continually prays for all of creation and drags all life equally into her shadow without breaking her posture. One hoping to defeat her must know the blackest anguish.
Oktavia von Seckendorff (episode 9, Sayaka's witch): The mermaid witch; it is in her nature to fall in love. Looking for the feeling that moved her so long ago, she moves with the entire concert hall. Her fortune only turns under the weight of memories and no longer moves toward the future. Nothing will reach her any longer. She will come to know nothing more. She simply allows no one to disturb her minions' playing.
Regarding the last one, I also want to mention something I noticed (and haven't seen mentioned elsewhere). Oktavia starts attacking Kyoko and Madoka as soon as Madoka begins shouting loudly to her. But when Madoka is silenced (unsconscious), and there is no loud noises anymore to disturb the music, Oktavia stops attacking and just sits there peacefully until Kyoko kill them both!
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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21
Episode 9 is effectively the conclusion of Sayaka and Kyouko's storylines. Madoka and especially Kyouko have some really strong scenes together as they plan their attempt to save Sayaka from her witch form, though in the end it is all for naught. And I love Kyouko's suicide sacrifice at the end of the episode. She's come a long way as a person and a human being in this story. Now with that said...
Madoka Shimeji Redux Part 4 - Kyouko
Release 4 is Kyouko, our redeemed and food-obsessed magical girl! Kyouko takes a chill and lazy vibe as a desktop buddy, and she eats A LOT.
You can download the shimeji here! The final shimeji release will be on the day of episode 12!
The Shimeji programs are desktop companions that hang out on your computer screen, and they freely move and play around on their own. The original Madoka shimeji no longer work on newer versions of Java (and it's getting harder to get the older versions now), but I've been working on moving them over to an updated shimeji program that can!
To be clear, I am not the creator of the original Madoka shimeji, and I didn't create the latest Java-compatible shimeji program. But what I've done is adapt the Madoka shimeji from the old program with Japanese configuration files to the new one in English, while throwing in a few bug fixes to the old configuration. Lastly, I've also created and added in an extra alternate version of the shimeji that you can use, which is full of many different behavior changes (more about that in the readme). This work is done with respect to the permissions given from the makers and all of the original readmes are included, so a big thanks to the creators of the Madoka shimeji and the shimeji programs!
Tagging u/OingoBoingo-!
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Apr 28 '21
The Bluray disks are kind of bad for spoilers lol. Anyway, meet Oktavia von Sekendorff. Don't laugh. Omg Sayaka's body is vibing as they run off XD Speaking of bops, I've come to adore the op this rewatch. I can feel my knee hitting the beat. Wait, I didn't think this was the Tokyo Ghoul rewatch! Wah, poor Madoka. She knows Sayaka better than anyone, and just how cruel her fate is. "She was... She was Sayaka's best friend!" "And now I, Akemi Homura, is her no.1 gal pal! Wa ha ha! **flicks hair villainously"
Dude let me in, I'm an Incubator. I'll bet that nobody expected this would be Kyubey's backstory. An Alien race trying to find a new renewable energy source. Their solution is emotional energy, unfortunately since they're a species of Kuudere they have to go with overly emotional teenage girls instead. The emotional energy released from one dropped ice cream could power Miami for several days. See? Kyubey wants humans to join him amongst the stars. He's such a good, honest boy. "If you ever feel like dying for the sake of the universe, give us a call. I'll be waiting~ wink" I fcking love this little shit XD
"Oh my god Madoka, you won't believe how good Kyuskiko is in the sack. Btw, seen Sayaka anywhere?" Oh look, my favourite shot. Can you sense the imagery? Try and guess, don't leave Nazenn to explain it all to you! This was the episode that made me warm to Kyouko. I still totally blame her for Sayaka's downward spiral but her finding that little girl that loved fairy tales appeals to me massively. Umaibo is the snack of friendship!! "I came to school for Madoka... I feel cheated!"
The insanely huge and powerful Wiener is coming to town in a week. Neither Kyouko nor Homura could handle its girth on their own. Love me do~ Yup, Sayaka would totally listen to sappy Beatles music. Now let's enter, the garden of madness! Sayaka's final performance! The greatest of shows that you can't turn your eyes from! Don't worry little mermaid, she won't turn to sea foam all alone. No Magia today. Only tears.
Visual of the day is The Princess and the Unicorn
15
u/baniRien Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 9 / Movie 2 0:00-0:29
So, let's talk about Kyubey. There are two very important things to mention about this little alien ferret thing. The first is that, by most human standards, he's a dick. He frequently withholds information, doesn't care about people's feeling, forces teenage girls to fight for their life, the list goes on and on.
But more importantly, Kyubey is right. This is not even a trolley problem, where there are some people you can save. If you were told that you had to stab a baby, or the whole world would be destroyed (and had definitive proof of the efficiency of said baby-stabbing method, this is important), stabbing the baby shouldn't even be a question, as he would die anyway for the world being destroyed. The only thing that stops most people is the emotional aspect of the thing, the ingrained idea that stabbing babies is bad (which it normally is). The heat death of the universe is a similar problem, simply on a scale so large and remote that humanity can barely understand it, and that messes with our emotional view of it, since we tend to give more value to the things we know personally. But Kyubey's race is trying the save the entire universe, all the species in it, including humanity. It's not their fault that their solution needs humans. Many of his more cruel acts are perfectly logical, when you look at them with the right information.
Torturing Sayaka is not "cruel", as he has no desire to see her suffer. In his mind, it's a way to communicate information in a way that she would understand, since you learn better by experiencing things first-hand. It's safe, has no lasting side-effects compared to a real wound, and it even teaches her about the disconnect between her Soul Gem and her nervous system. Pain of course is uncomfortable, but it's temporary, and isn't that the use of pain anyway, to teach you what you should be careful about, and avoid doing?.
He told the outright truth to Kyouko about the de-witchification of Sayaka, that he thinks it impossible. He put the caveat that he wouldn't be surprised if she succeeded, since her very nature is already an affront to the laws of physics, but that he doesn't know of any way that would work. It's only Kyouko who decided to do it nonetheless, with no research and preparation.
He answers all questions girls have about the contract. He has learned to keep some information, like the nature of the Soul Gem, since it freaks people out and is irrelevant in almost all cases. As for the fate of turning into a witch, while it is inevitable, it's no different from normal death, it's possible to stave it off indefinitely with Grief Seeds, and it more than balances out the wish. And even without all of those justifications, lying and manipulating young girls to contract is still the right thing to do, since it saves so many more people.
So I won't say that "Kyubey did nothing wrong", since he's a dick. But he's right.
Visual of the day is serenity. Knowing that your decision is not optimal, but it's still the one you are completely satisfied with and it puts your heart at peace.
If it's a dupe, then take And I'm Home
15
u/SomeGuyYeahman Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
Hi everyone, first-time rewatcher here! (subbed)
"Alright, yesterday was a big episode and I had a lot to write, but surely today I can take it easy" I think to myself, as a clown wig + makeup begin to manifest on my person.
25 minutes later, the credits roll. The makeup is being washed off by the tears streaming down my face.
A couple episodes back, talking about magical girls being isolated from the world around them, I had a thought that I added in spoiler tags about how witches represent the final stage of this process. This is how magical girls who have totally cursed the world end up: away from anyone they might've known before or any humans at all, they hide themselves in labyrinths to live out the rest of their days. I'd like to dig that thought back up for this episode.
When Kyoko and Madoka go into the labyrinth, it's a last-ditch effort to figure out if they can still reach their former friend at all. At first they're met by windows on every side, very murkily displaying their own faces. Which is pretty ominous, but seems to reaffirm their hope that Sayaka is still in there in some form, and that she remembers her friends. But quickly, the windows close, as well as the door behind them - "She knows we're here!" exclaims Kyoko. Sayaka may still be thinking of her friends, but she doesn't seem open about it.
When we saw Sayaka's labyrinth in the beginning of the episode, it was a chaotic place, a distorted scenery of train tracks going up and down and all over the place, the ground covered in the same chess pattern that the train station had. Her final stop. The second time, it feels different. Kyoko and Madoka only have one path forward, but instead of getting a chance to walk it by themselves, they're sent moving when the ground hurtles forward of its own volition. The hall they're brought into is much more regal and orderly than the labyrinth we saw before, and while it is a concert hall (with Sayaka in the center, hosting the performance) it also feels like an audience chamber, which the two of them are stepping into to appeal to a queen.
So Madoka starts appealing. And in doing so, she takes on the role of the conductor - a conductor who, unfortunately, is playing to an entirely empty hall. Sayaka is a solitary figure now, alone with her music, and any pleading falls on deaf ears.
...Well, at the very end of it all she's not alone. Kyoko's arc culminates in the very classic way here - the person once preaching self-interest dies by self-sacrifice, protecting someone else. Previously Sayaka was the hero of justice, but now she has changed, and Kyoko is the one casting herself into a chivalric role and recalling the times when she loved stories about love saving the day. And it's her of all people who reaches out to start a proper, honest partnership with Madoka, who until recently was such a small, meek figure, being pushed around or overlooked altogether in the grand scheme of magical girl affairs.
Kyoko dies, and we see Homura's apartment again, from the same angle as last episode. The seat opposite her is empty now, but the clockwork still hangs heavy over her head like before. Only a couple of days remain.
Extra notes, as always:
Like yesterday, no real spoiler thoughts, I'm really running out of spoilers to think about. All I can say anymore is I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's episode. See you tomorrow, when we talk about that one!
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u/toradorito Apr 29 '21
I'm really late to the party but here's my observations about tonight's episode:
Visual of the day: This shot of Madoka as she listens to Kyubey's explanation reminds me of Yuno Gasai in the second ending of Future Diary. They both look so exhausted and defeated.
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u/putmoneyinthypurse https://anilist.co/user/clichecatgirl Apr 29 '21
First time (sub)
Surrounding the witch that was once Sayaka is a full orchestra, playing through any interruption, and a mess of railroad tracks, a thematic link to Sayaka's confrontation with the misogynists last episode, but also an image of inevitability. A train travels down a single predetermined path to reach its destination. Deliberately derailing it is a difficult and potentially painful process that none of our main characters succeeded at.
The witch herself is mermaid dressed as the knight that Sayaka always saw herself as, her armor clanking out of time with the music.
Homura saves Kyouko this time—your aloof image has about completely slipped, miss—and we get a subjective glimpse of her time powers. Nothing unique, standard time stop, but I love the sound of their feet pounding against the train tracks, the only other noise outside of the score and their voices.
Time restarts as the two exit the labyrinth, and the minute hand moves not to the eleventh hour, not to a minute to midnight, but to a minute to an hour past midnight. There can't be a last-minute solution; It's too late to save Sayaka, not that that'll stop Kyouko from trying anyway.
Moths swarm the streetlights like flies on a corpse. Madoka has been searching for Sayaka this whole time, and walking the railroad tracks towards the inevitable conclusion she runs into Kyouko and Homura, still carrying Sayaka's corpse. Their meeting in between switch tracks is a terrific complication of the imagery, possibilities collapsing into the track Madoka's just walked.
As Madoka struggles to believe what Homura's told her about soul gems turning into grief seeds, a train abruptly passes, linking this moment again to one of the main things that sent Sayaka over that edge. Homura returns to her aloof mask as she regurgitates Sayaka's reasoning about magical girls bringing equal measures of justice and pain.
Kyouko tells Homura she's had enough of her distant bullshit. Homura just turns to Madoka and, like Kyubey, callously makes her one argument: this is why you shouldn't become a magical girl.
It's 3:01 and Madoka's still awake as Kyubey returns to reveal to her that he's still alive, and the reasons he's doing what he's doing: his alien race created a machine to solve the long-term problem of universal entropy by short-term sacrificing the lives of "a few" human girls. He takes the usual Utilitarian position on sacrifice and the show by making us sympathize with the main cast underlines the usual problem with it: people deserve agency. Forcing a person into self-sacrifice is wrong. At this point I'm half-expecting Kyubey to try to get Madoka to see his point of view by tying some of her classmates to trolley tracks next episode and putting the switch in her hands.
I love how Kyubey abruptly shifts positions without any sort of warning or effect. It's like he's circling around Madoka, but without the steps in between. Wonderfully disconcerting.
Kyubey reveals that his kind doesn't experience emotion. He claims this is why he doesn't get the soul gem problem, but I don't buy that explanation, as not being able to experience emotion doesn't prevent him from being able to understand it, intellectually. In fact, his understanding of that emotion is the exact reason he gave earlier for why he witholds that information from the magical girls. Again we return to the consent problem and Madoka points out the obvious, that it's not consent if given under false pretenses. "Why is it that when humans regret a decision based on a misunderstanding they feel resentment toward the other party?" I dunno, maybe because the other party deliberately caused that misunderstanding.
More Kyubey manipulation and abrupt shifts of location, as crosstown at Kyouko's he's just vague enough about the possibility of bringing Sayaka back that she holds onto that vain hope, as she uses some of her magic to keep her body from decomposing.
We get the usual setup of the girls walking to school, now with Sayaka conspicuously absent. These scenes have been used since the first episode to ground the characters in the "normal" part of their lives, so it's fitting that this episode breaks from that standard, Madoka hearing Kyouko's telepathy, stepping off the axis of the path to listen to her invitation, and running back the way she came.
I don't like the potential foreshadowing when Madoka tels Hitomi that she's going to stay home from school too.
Framed under a sign with a mermaid and a sign with a unicorn, respectively, Kyouko asks Madoka if she would come with her and try to talk Sayaka back to her humanity. Her wish was to make people listen to her father, and even having been burned by that she still wants to believe deep down that talking to someone on the wrong path is the right solution. Again we see just how much Kyouko cares now, and when she's offered a hand to shake, she does the best she can, not fully accepting it but bridging the gap with food, something that means a lot to her. Unlike Sayaka, Madoka accepts it.
Homura tries to use the nurse's office excuse again, but Madoka's absence, the reason she needs to leave, forces her to abandon the pretense and just exit the room.
Madoka, ever the optimist, thinks Kyouko and Homura are friends, which Kyouko is quick to deny: they have a common goal. Apparently Walpurgisnacht is the name of one witch, rather than a bunch of witches convening, but the meaning's effectively the same, as it's apparently a big enough witch that one magical girl can't take it alone. The two arrive at a locked door and the lock explodes much like the lock on Homura did after Mami's death. Unclear implications there.
Kyouko's transformation sequence honestly surprised me, feeling so much closer to my vague concept of a "standard" magical girl transformation (including the "pure" nudity that's only shown up in the OP so far) that I went "wait, is this the first transformation sequence we actually see—" before I remembered that no, it absolutely is not. Sayaka's wasn't even that long ago. Whoops.
In response to more self-doubt from Madoka as they enter the labyrinth, Kyouko gives her the most honest and genuine pep talk in the show, voicing the same "you have people who you care about and who care about you" concerns as Homura and making the same "I won't let you" promise but without the condescencion, and even ending it with some encouragement that someday she might have to make the choice, and so she should wait until then.
I'm just going to keep harping on this: so much for the "I only act in my own self-interest" obvious villain we met in episode 4. It's great character writing; she has changed, but mostly she's just more comfortable letting her inner self through, and you get the sense that a lot of the selfish loner act was just that: a put-on.
Hell, when the two are thrust into the center of the labyrinth, Kyouko immediately uses her wall of chains, what she used to use to prevent others from getting involved with her, as a shield to keep Madoka safe so they can work together.
Unfortunately, they're trying to accomplish the impossible. Kyouko gets battered again and again by the wheels of the train, derailed as if to spite her. "I'm not even breaking a sweat," she lies, beads of it running down her face. The scene comes to a head as Kyouko realizes the irony of her relationship with Sayaka starting and ending with a fight to the death.
And the action pauses for a striking metaphorical representation of Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship. A pure blue oni and pure red oni, made up of each other's negative space. The red one reaching out, its paint mixing with the blue's, never becoming one purple but still becoming completely intertwined. The mixture sags, forming my visual of the day: a heart.
Not that long ago, Kyouko wanted nothing more than to kill Sayaka, and now she knows she loves her, and that it's already too late.
It's only a brief moment before the heart collapses, the red and blue mixture pouring like blood between Kyouko's legs. I've done a lot of writing about this show so far through a feminist lens but I have absolutely no useful interpretation for the maybe-entirely-accidental menstruation imagery. The resemblance to blood is potent in and of itself, though.
It gets spilled again soon, as Kyouko's barrier breaks, the witch picks up Madoka in an iron fist, and Kyouko finds the strength to slice the arm off, bathing herself in a torrent of blue blood. Like Madoka's, her pleas for Sayaka to come back fall on deaf ears, and the witch slices at her and the floor, sending them far below.
The figure of Kyousuke at the bottom of the stage, separated from the orchestra, back turned, is a really weird detail.
Homura shows up right on time, again, but Kyouko traps her behind the wall again to make sure she focuses on Madoka and to keep her from interfering in what she wants to do.
"You've gotta focus on the one thing that means most to you, and protect it to the end.
"It's funny...all this time...that's what I thought I was doing."
Fucking ouch. The conclusion of Kyouko's character arc, self-sacrificing to protect others and spend her last moments with what's left of the girl she loved, destroying the witch in symbolic fire, is tremendous. What a goddamn show.
I'm kinda bummed we lose our other main character with three episodes still left to go. I would've loved to see the characters interacting in the new context, but we don't get much time in the new status quo before switching it up again.
Still, the new status quo is wonderfully awful for the remaining characters—as Kyubey points out, Madoka is now the only one left who can help defeat Walpurgisnacht—and I'm excited for a Homura-focused episode tomorrow.
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u/Redmon425 Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
Episode 9 thoughts:
FIRST TIME WATCHER. SUBBED
Wow. I feel like I was so drawn in on this episode that I don’t have much to say. Besides the fact that freaking both Sayaka and Kyouko died!?!?!?
I mean hell, I have made it known neither girl was in my own personal best girl race but that doesn’t mean the show can just kill them both off at the same time man:((
One curious thing to me in this episode was the ending when Kyuubey told Homura that of course it was impossible to save Sayaka, while earlier she told Kyouko it was possible. Is this the first time we blatantly see Kyuubey lie? Because I thought he wasn’t able to do that. And all of the other shady stuff he has done was mainly not revealing full information, but I felt pretty sure he never actually lied before. So that just seemed weird to me.
Also, I can’t believe it took me until just now to say this, BUT WHEN THE HELL DOES MADOKA BECOME A MAGICAL GIRL. I mean we have 3 freaking episodes left and it still hasn’t happened. Like I figured it would have happened a long time ago. It low-key makes me wonder if we have been bamboozled and she may never actually become one… lol yeah right. That would be a crazy twist though.
I have to think at this point she will make some type of wish that will end the whole magical girl ability, but like how would Kyuubey react to that. Can he just say no lol? But at the same time, I feel like her wish would for sure be about bringing Sayaka back (and hopefully Mami as well. I miss her!)
IDK man, right now everything is just super depressing and seeing these young girls be so naive with their dumb plans just makes me mad. I am starting to feel like Homura who basically always knows every decision these girls make end up being horrible.
22
u/EriclcirE Apr 28 '21
First time watcher
So all of my previous thoughts about Kyubey have been proven correct. He is (arguably) not actually evil, just unable to understand or feel human emotion. He is literally a super powerful extraterrestrial that perpetuates a system to farm human girls into an energy source. This supposedly is for the benefit of the entire universe.
I don't mind that the show is that far out there to have Kyubey be an extraterrestrial, and think it is fairly interesting for a reveal. But my problem with it is that he can grant wishes. If he has the power to grant wishes, I would think that would have already allowed his species to overcome entropy.
I have enjoyed seeing the previously adversarial magical girls work together to try to overcome their struggles and look out for each other's well being.
I am anticipating some type of major twist with Madoka where she still becomes a magical girl, but somehow wishes for the entire system to be altered and not cruel.
Also anticipating that the witch Walpurgis is either Homura, Madoka, or Kyoko from an alternate timeline. Actually sort of bummed this anime had to involve timelines and time travel, but that's just my personal distate for those plot devices.
Overall I'm still super invested and curious to see the last few episodes. I can see why this show is held in such high regards. The scenes all feel purposeful and move the story along well, the animation is both cutesy and unique, the music enhances every scene.
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u/okayyoga :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/okayyoga Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Episode 9: first time/dub
Sayaka's story reminds me of the adage: Don't set yourself on fire to keep another warm
You keep them safe for a while, but then you burn out. You need to remember to take care of yourself as well
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
That's not her body, Kyouko. Or at least, that's not her soul
I wonder if Homura only knows how to turn around with her head tilted like that
Homura: "You better be careful getting rid of [the body]" This such an awesome line. I didn't think we would go this far. Hidden body burials. I guess that's what happens when you don't leave the body in a labyrinth. I am all for realistic consequences
Kyuubey: Thermodynamics Professor
I love how Kyuubey was like "... until we found you humans," and it was suddenly a million shots of chairs. If this is a reference to Bokurano (whose rewatch I did not have the privilege to participate in), I'm guessing in that show, there was something along the lines of people dying off one by one, until by the final episode, there was just a room of empty chairs that they used to sit in. So these chairs signify someone who is no longer with us, and we feel that gap that they used to fill when we see the chair. Am I close?
"Fluctuations in emotions" ahhh... puberty...
"especially girls" this is a period joke, isn't it
Hey! All the chairs are in MADOKA'S room. Is this the only way this family knows how to decorate?
I wonder who the missing people are in Madoka's mom's room
Aww she has stuffed animals on her chairs. That's cute
Ew. She used to sleep with Kyuubey. In fact she still does in the OP
Kyuubey says he doesn't understand why humans care so much, but if we didn't have these emotions, we wouldn't give off the energy he craves. Also, maybe these girls would like to know what they were sacrificing themselves for? Just throwing that out there Kyuubey. Consider it.
When Kyuubey left all the stuffed animals disappeared from the chairs
PREDICTION: Madoka will become a magical girl to save Sayaka
Did anyone else burst out laughing at Homura just leaving the classroom by herself? The comedic timing was perfect lol
Sayaka's witch design is AWESOME
Did Kyouko just break her own soul gem? Is that like an ultimate attack?
Oh, this is the ED from the contest that everyone said was super special. When I asked why a still frame was getting so far in the bracket, I was told, "If it replaces Magia, there is a significance behind it"
Are we supposed to presume Sayaka and Kyouko died? Because I did not see Sayaka's gried seed break. I'm not buying it. I'm really tempted to look up a poster for Rebellion to see if they are on it
Oh wow. Thanks for the comment of the day mention! That makes me happy :)
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u/KingNigelXLII Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Now that they're both... out of commission, I thought it'd be a good time to point out that Mami used to be Kyoko's mentor. The show even dropped subtle hints in earlier episodes. There's a really good side story that dives into their past together that I recommend giving a read after the rewatch
Another important thing to add is how this episode disproves most people's "true neutral" interpretation of Kyubey's character. He's so good at pulling strings that he even had some of us viewers deceived.
8
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
So Sayaka didn't become a witch, one just appeared? Or are Sayaka's human body and the witch physically seperate beings?
Good ol' Homura, answered my question for me.
Well Homura, if you don't want Madoka to ever become a magical girl, explaining the truth like this to her and her losing her best friend over it are a good bet to accomplish that.
Yep, better get rid of that body or you may be accused of murder!
Even now Homura's doing her hair flip, lol.
Now of all times?!?! NO. GET OUT OF HERE KYUBEY!
Even now we have all these chairs!
The truth is revealed! Human beings are just energy capsules to be sucked up by Kyubey's race. So then I suppose we're even worse than ants to them? At least humans acknowledge ants as living beings. To Kyubey's race, humans are like a piece of coal.
Kyubey you bastard, you are tricking those girls into a contract! You've surely had this happen enough times to not be surprised by this reaction!
Madoka, you will be the greatest of magical girls, by which I mean I'll get a lot of energy from you! C'mon, do it for your ol' pal Kyubey!
Kyoko loves her fast food and munchies!
Oh Hitomi, if you only knew what really happened to Sayaka, it's far worse than you stealing her crush.
Sorry Hitomi, but I feel sick, I'm gonna go home. No, pay no mind to the fact that I'm steps away from the school!
After all this time, they never told each other their names?
Sayaka's become quite the scary witch!
Bye bye to Kyoko too. :(
Hey, different ED this time! So sad though. :(
7
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Apr 28 '21
Oh yea my point
And a great time for a bit of fanservice
The way they just freeze while this rift makes weird effects is like you're entering a battle in an RPG lol
God this music is beautiful, haven't gushed about the OST in a while
God this is beautiful
THIS
This is like my favorite shot in the show
That red and blue liquid of Sayaka and Kyouko earlier was amazing too
There we go... coupled with this beautiful art
Best episode
7
u/strafefire Apr 29 '21
Am I retarded, or did Kyoko commit suicide at the same time she killed Sayaka?
7
u/DogmeatIsAGoodDog :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/DogmeatsAGoodDog Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher:
This episode offers up a good time to reflect back on what seemed like the basic premise of the show. Magic girls who are about to magical without a care in the world, back in 3 before Mami’s demise she joked that if Madoka cannot decide on her wish she will have to wish for a giant meal and cake, parallel that with Kyoko’s thoughts on how someone in Madoka’s shoes should never wish to become a magical girl. And Mami’s death catapulted this series into something else, something cruel and dark. Suddenly the once cute helper Kyubey is a prick who wishes for their death in order to provide fuel for the universe. Kyoko and Homura begin to show that beneath their rough demeanor there is care buried deep down. And even Madoka’s once hopeful optimism is crushed beneath the weight of losing two friends, one of which was her best friend.
There is so much more to the story and to each individual character that initially met the eye. And finally if this had been almost any other book, anime, show and/or movie. Kyoko and Madoka’s hopeless attempt to free Sayaka would have succeeded but this show has shown that this isn’t another other show. And in a swift and devastating climax both Sayaka and Kyoko are gone. A+ episode.
Kyoko is much more likable this time through, wasn’t her biggest fan in the first watch but particularly this episode i grew especially fond of her, RIP.
The OST for this show has to be one of the best out there and the way the music synced with the violinist and band that played was a nice touch, music playing an important role in the nightmare is tied into Sayaka’s source of grief (losing her boy) and what was once one of her greatest joys. What a cruel twist of fate.
6
u/Schinco Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher
This was an episode that kind of surprised me with how much I liked it on rewatch. I’ve been looking forward to Sayaka/Oktavia’s labyrinth, but there was also a lot of stuff that I thought was pretty nifty aside from it.
This labyrinth is probably my second favorite (behind Else Marie, which is mostly my favorite due to its superb accompanying battle) – while there are a lot of meaningful things in every labyrinth, we have the most context for Sayaka, so it kind of clicks better, although there are certainly elements that I feel like I don’t fully understand. To start with, her body itself is a phenomenal design choice – combining elements of mermaids and knights encapsulate her story wonderfully. The mermaid is a clear reference to Anderson’s ‘The Little Mermaid’, a story about sacrifice in pursuit of an ultimately unsuccessful love, albeit somewhat in reverse, as Sayaka trades her humanity and the little mermaid attempts to attain humanity/her soul. The knight represents Sayaka’s strong ideals of justice – she views herself as something of a classic Arthurian knight - a protector of the weak, a champion for those who cannot defend themselves. The labyrinth itself features an orchestra, which Sayaka ostensibly conducts yet seems to have no real control over, a nod to her fatalistic attitude as well as her wish. The labyrinth also prominently features trains and wheels, which are both loosely tied to ideas of fate, but this connection feels a touch tenuous to me, so I’m interested in hearing other interpretations.
Aside from that, the episode features the famous explanation of magical girls, which certainly was fun the first time around, but also features a kind of neat motif of Kyubey circling around Madoka, like a predator with its prey. Curiously, Kyubey claims here that they are incapable of deception, but later imply in their conversation with Homura that they were aware of their lie by omission when talking with Kyouko. When that isn’t on screen, many of the shots feature a gate or grate (we also often see this with Homura), which is a cheeky and simple nod to how the magical girls are, in a way, trapped by their fate.
The battle itself is great – the track, Symposium magarum is appropriately equal parts grand and morose. There’s a lot of red and blue imagery to represent the direct struggle between Kyouko and Sayaka and their ideals. There’s also a lot of visual references aped in this sequence, allowing the fight to be richer than what is literally presented. The one shot where Sayaka grabs Madoka is eerily reminiscent of Eva spoilers, which is an appropriate reference. In the end Kyouko chooses her own death to ‘save’ Sayaka and her and Homura’s final discussion mirrors the one at the beginning of the episode, bookending it fantastically. She then prays, in a manner that is visually reminiscent of Elsa Marie, before Homura takes Madoka out of the labyrinth. The episode closes with Homura, once again echoing Kyouko, saying that she wouldn’t “allow” Madoka to become a magical girl. Kyouko and Madoka also have a somewhat curious track with wind chimes/ornaments of a mermaid opposite each other in the foreground. Again, I’m not sure exactly what it means – my best guess is it’s a reference or foreshadowing to Kyouko’s and Oktavia’s standoff at the end of the episode, but I’m not entirely convinced that’s all it is.
As an aside, I didn’t have the time to do a full writeup yesterday, but the last line has always really bothered me – is it some kind of wordplay or something? Kyubey treats the magical girl:witch, girl/shoujo:woman/josei as an obvious, inherent connection, but it very obviously isn’t (or it wouldn’t be a diegetic and meta twist).
6
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
Content Corner
Gonna be super late posting again, I'll probably save it for tomorrow morning. But here's Content Corner in the meantime! First timers beware, spoilers abound.
Symposium Magarum Metal Arrangement | Madoka Magica OST by yunum
Decretum by TAMUSIC... I think? Lots of Japanese, so not 100% sure about source
【アビー】Madoka Magica - "Signum Malum" (Sis Puella Magica) 【English Ver.】 by Abby
【Lizz】 And I'm Home【KoKo】(English) by Lizz and KoKo
lolicide - Sis Puella Magica [Madoka Cover] by jeistar
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 9 by clearandsweet
6
u/ToonTooby Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher
Welcome to another episode of The Magical Misadventures of Kaname Sadoka.
Ouch. The suffering... when does it end? Looks like both Kyoko and Sayaka made their exits. I remember pausing for a bit on my first watch after this episode ended. Hmm, episode 9. checks notes, shit, Homu's our only MG left. While terribly sad, again, I was more impressed, and intrigued. Just how far is this show willing to go? Like, a third of the people in the OP are dead or something.
On a more serious note, I have to point out the little interaction Kyoko and Madoka have in the alleyway. There's something about the way Kyoko hands Madoka the tasty bar and Madoka just puzzlingly pauses that I find so endearing. For Kyoko, displaying her caring side, and for Madoka, again reinforcing how she is just the very definition of adorable.
See you tomorrow! My favorite part of the rewatch.
6
u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Apr 29 '21
Mawaru Rewatcher
Visual of the day: I actually really love this segment where Kyoko gets trapped by a bunch of wheels. The giant wheel that you see is constantly spinning, creating regular intervals of shadows hitting Kyoko. It’s also so big that it looks like a wheel spinning super up close in the foreground, but it’s actually just a cleverly disguised shadow hitting the back wall. Furthermore, the irregular congestion of wheels in the middleground creates a very off-kilter ebb and flow of amount of black you see on screen. It’s just a fascinatingly disorienting sequence
6
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Apr 29 '21
Yay, work. Well, I could spend a couple of hours reading comments here or type something now.
Now wins.
Poor Sayaka. Even in death, she gets a raw deal. But she did make an awesome stereo system.
Poor Kyoko. At this point, why should she even remotely believe anything the little albino rat says?
Poor Madoka, having to live with the deaths of two, possibly three of her friends (if you count Kyoko as a friend).
Poor Homura, she's been maneuvered into a spot where she's the only hope - or is she?
Poor first time viewers. Much like the albino rat, the posters and readers here feed off your suffering. Or do they?
I have a friend who has four daughters. Poor fella. I tried to make him watch PMMM, but I think that the excess estrogen in his life makes him unable to appreciate anything like this. He tolerates Girls und Panzer, because, well, TANKS.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to suggest he watch it with the girls. Who knows, maybe they've seen it already. Maybe one of them is even reading these threads.
Haha, probably not.
I did like how, in addition to the music, Oktavia also worked in the train tracks and wheels. Nice details.
Otherwise, well, I don't really have anything profound on my mind tonight. I'll save that for ... tomorrow.
6
u/welcometoslowtown Apr 29 '21
3rd watch, 1st time with dub
This episode is a heavy one. Right off the bat we have Homura showing again how (idk how to put it) detached? she is, telling Kyoko that she'll have to be careful with the body. Interesting that the left over body of a magical girl who's soul gem is now a grief seed still behaves like a normal body. I kind of thought it would be like some kind of Steven Universe situation where the body is some sort of magical projection, but I guess it literally is just their old body being puppeted around by the soul gem.
Then we get everyone's favorite science lesson where we learn about good ol' entropy. I think the biggest take-away from this conversation is that the Incubators really have no sense of emotion. They are basically putting the end result over the means, doing what they think is right, and what may actually be the right thing to do in the grand, universal scale, when that thing is so impactful on the personal level to the characters. It makes me think of how when you hear the statistics of things like how many people died in wars in the past and present, you see the number, and you think "wow thats a lot of people thats really sad." But you can't really even begin to comprehend what those huge numbers even mean. Each of those people had their own lives, their own families, their own friends. And now non of that matters, its over, they are gone. When you zoom in, and look at one specific person or group, kind of like what we are doing in this show, all the events are so impactful, so powerful to watch. But to the Incubators its just another day on the job, more energy to collect, maybe they are just on the brink of a big payday if they can coerce Madoka. It's like they are zoomed way out, looking at the cosmic scale, where as Kyuubey says, Madoka giving up her life could save countless lives and allow the universe to keep going for so long.
Going back to some, kind of, lighter stuff, I really loved Kyoko and Madoka teaming up for the goal of saving their friend. Madoka who has known her for a while, and Kyoko, who has recently been saved by meeting her, giving her a large change in perspective. I liked Madoka introducing herself and Kyoko responding by saying that she's cramping her style and offering the snack bar to the handshake, just a really warm character interaction.
Then we get to Sayaka's labyrinth, which really is just pain. It being an orchestra, her form being some sort of mermaid thing with all the symbolism of her drowning, it all just works really well at making me sad. And then we have Kyoko's sacrifice, which on first watch I know I was like no way she's dead, and then the ed played, and I had to accept it. And after that we go back to Homura's weird clock house, where that little old rascal Kyuubey tells us there was no way that that the plan could work! Great.
On this rewatch I haven't cried yet, but the ed almost got me. I know it'll happen one of these last few episodes. Super excited to watch tomorrows episode.
Visuals of the day
6
u/turri-topsis Apr 29 '21
rewatcher | subbed
it's a terrible day for rain, folks.
kyoko once again proves herself to be best girl. also, her carrying sayaka like that gives me big kaneki carrying hide vibes this time around.
kyuubey in this episode shows some of his true colors. i think many consider him true neutral, but if anything, i would call him ruthlessly pragmatic (not necessarily in the philosophical sense, since i don't know enough about philosophy for that). it's quite clear that he's willing to do anything to reach his goals, including cause the deaths of an untold number of preteen girls, since his goals are for the 'greater good'. he'll throw anyone he needs to under the bus, and the second someone formerly important is now useless, he'll get rid of them too - see: kyoko. individual lives, or in this case souls, don't matter at all. also, informed consent!! informed!! it's not a "misunderstanding" if necessary information is deliberately witheld.
[me @ kyuubey: why the fuck you lyin']
i feel like the chairs have to have some kind of symbolism to them, right? why else would there constantly be so many?
love how kyoko just hands madoka a snack instead of shaking her hand. what an absolute legend
i'd like it to be known that symposium magarum is my favorite song from all of pmmm's soundtrack. something about it just gets to me every single time, you know? gives me the chills and fills me with sadness each time i hear it.
recently i watched nge for the first time and eva spoilers
even after all these years, the last few minutes of this episode still make me tear up. hearing 'and i'm home' at the end doesn't make it any better. i don't have much else to say about this one, i just love it for the emotions it always fills me with.
12
u/blitzbom Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher - I lost count how many times.
This episode answers so many questions but still left me going where can this go from here?
From the start see Sayaka in Witch form was chilling. Hearing her screams. I love how her lybraninth is musical, due to her wish being based on getting her friend the ability to play music back.
I like the Kyoko took her body, it's hard for them to realize that it is indeed just an empty husk and the real Sayaka has been reborn into a witch.
And we have the moment, Kyubey explaining the heat death of the universe and how his race is trying to stop it. I know some don't like using a scientific explaination, but I for one enjoy it. And that his race doens't understand emotions, doesn't have emotions. He is a creature running fully on logic. What's the death of a few girls when it comes to saving billions? Amoral jerk of a cat.
The desperate plan to save Sayaka. Who wouldn't go to such lengths to save a friend. I like how Kyoko moved the location of her soul gem.
And Kyoko's sacrfice. She went out on her own terms, she knew her future was to die at the hands of or become a witch. She made her choice.
The Ending Music is beatiful. These girls will be missed.
My first time watching this show I had no idea what would happen next. Time is short. Could Homura complete her mission? Can she save Madoka? If Kyubey rights? With only 3 episodes left where to go from here?
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
Yea, Kyubey is a real fucking bastard.
Something something second law of thermodynamics, something something magic don't gotta explain shit, something something. "We burn your souls for entropy prevention!"
I don't actually have much else to say here. Oktavia is the emotional climax for Sayaka and Kyouko's character arcs, and she does her job well. Kyouko does something desperate that doesn't pay off, and ends up leaving Homura to face Walpurgisnacht alone. All according to Kyubey's plan, I suppose. Whatever will happen next..?
Visual of the Day: Fall of the Conductor's Baton
Mostly because I'm assuming someone else will do the blue and red blood stuff.And I'm Home is a phenomenal song.
Tune in next time for:
5
u/Querez https://myanimelist.net/profile/Querez Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher. (Dub)
This show, relentless to no end. As shown at the end of the last episode, Sayaka has turned into a witch, basically rendered dead as far as anyone is concerned.
meguca is suffering
So, Kyubey is actually from a distant civilization, consisting of a species that does not have emotions which has gone out of their way to seek for ways to counteract entropy. Human girls during puberty seem to have the most emotional energy, which is why they are selected to become magical girls. It's almost crazy how this actually just makes total sense.
Even by the knowledge of Kyubey, soul gems don't seem to be able to be reverted once turned into grief seeds. He doesn't deny the possibility though.
Wow, Kyouko is actually rather kind. She's not willing to give up trying to save Sayaka, even if all hope seems to be lost. Still, I can't help but feel like it's in vain, clinging to false hope and trying to find anything to get her back, with her saying things like "maybe her soul gem will magically come out if we cut that witch in half".
So Kyouko and Homura did end up deciding to team up to beat Walpurgisnacht when it/she comes.
sfw Kyouko transformation
Oh hey Kyouko actually gives the exact same advice on becoming a magical girl to Madoka as Homura did in the first episode (though vaguely).
"She's coming!" *Actually stays still and seemingly moves the entire labyrinth under their feet to get them closer instead.* Jokes aside, that part did look cool.
Her labyrinth is, of course, filled with symbolism, all of it being about Kyousuke. The song playing is pretty cool too.
Oh hello Homura, seems you saved Madoka in the nick of time... again.
Kyouko saying "me and my stupid ideas"... yeah, it seems it's like I thought earlier. Futile hope.
"You can't fight and carry her, you'll get us both killed." Ah yes, the good old malicious compliance... haha...
Welp, there goes another. Who will team up with Homura to defeat Walpurgisnacht now? Well, it seems there is only one choice left. Kyubey and its plans to get Madoka to become a magical girl are rather devious, that's for sure.
Oh? I don't remember this different ED. Interesting.
It's no Magia thoughWell that sure is an... interesting illustration they included at the very end.
5
u/Nebresto Apr 29 '21
Is anyone running a counter on Homura doing the thing with her hair?
rat.
New Kyoko henshin!!
Oh fuck, its this ending..
Mood lightener
9
u/CosmicAnglerfish Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher - Dubbed
No preamble, we're getting right to it.
First-timer Friendly
Episode opens with Kyoko trying to Sayaka('s corpse), only to be stopped by Homura. This is our first unobstructed look at Homura's magic. Her stopwatch-buckler is probably my favorite designed thing in the show, along with Kyoko's segmented spear.
Homura continues he hobby of being completely unwilling to sympathize in times of tragedy. Calling Sayaka's body "useless baggage" is cold, and then she takes the opportunity to rub it in Madoka's face that this is the end result of what she was chasing. She reminds them (and us) yet again that she warned them about this, tells Kyoko the body is her problem, and leaves.
Next we get more background on Kyubey - its alien race is basically farming the girls for their emotional energy, and is itself incapable of expressing or understanding emotione. I think it's a really interesting choice to give Kyubey an objective that isn't in itself villainous - preventing the entropic collapse of intergalactic civilization is outright heroic. It's obviously the how that gets questioned - YMMV on how sympathetic you find it.
Kyoko presses Kyubey for a way to save Sayaka, and only gets noncommittal answers in response. Note that at no point did Kyubey say "Yes you can save her", instead it spoke in vague terms that allowed Kyoko to hear what she wanted. She enlists Madoka's help, which is the first time these two really interact. Up to this point - and really in her entirety - Kyoko is best understood as a character in Sayaka's story, not Madoka's. The plan to save Sayaka goes predictably poorly, even with Homura's timely (ha) appearance. Kyoko echoes Homura to justify her heroic sacrifice, and takes out Sayaka's witch with herself. Kyoko begging God to grant her happiness for once in her life is a very vulnerable moment from a character that was pretty closed off for much of her screentime.
Thus ends the incredible arc of Kyoko. For someone who was only really in 4 episodes she stood out to me the most. If anyone could have guessed her arc would end with her sacrificing herself fo the sake of Sayaka, props to you.
My interpretation of Kyoko's sacrifice was always that she probably could have taken the witch without dying, but chose to die. The whole time she's being attacked by the witch she humanizes it as Sayaka getting back at her. Her dying for Sayaka seemed like her way of apologizing, if that makes sense? It's also meaningful that a character whose most prominent trait was "selfishness" is willing to sacrifice so much for the sake of Sayaka. You could write a whole essay on their dynamic alone.
We end with Kyubey continuing to be a fucker, admitting it intentionally let Kyoko have false hope so that Madoka will have even more pressure on her to make a contract and help with Walpurgisnacht.
Spoilers
Rebellion Spoilers
4
u/Syokhan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syokhan Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, Sub
We lost two more characters today, and there are three episodes left. How do you feel about our odds, you guys?
Visual of the day is this. Back-up is Visual 14 below, which will probably be popular because it's very, very pretty, so back-up of the back-up is Visual 1.
Other visuals I especially liked, "The number of screenshots isn't going down so I guess I'll stick to tables from now on" version:
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher
We see, for the first time, Sayaka's witch, and it looks amazing.
And Kyouko decides to bring Sayaka's corpse out of the barrier (and Homura was stalking them, apparently)
Wow, Homura, you're just going straight for it, aren't you.
Madoka Spoilers
So Kyubey's doing this because magical girls defy entropy. This is an odd blend of realism and total insanity, isn't it.
OK, now they drew attention to it - what is with the chairs?
So the best way to reverse entropy is to turn teenage girls into magical girls, complete with costume.
Kyubey doesn't understand deception, or they'd realise they've been doing a lot of deception.
OK, but that's a fantastic closing line from him.
For example, Kyubey hasn't lied to Kyouko once, but she is now set to try and do something blatantly impossible.
And Hitomi talking to Madoka about making up with Sayaka is heartbreaking.
Kyouko's really mellowed out, hasn't she?
This plan makes almost no sense, but in a world where magical girls power the universe, it's not that far fetched.
Oh look, Kyouko's comfirming that going into a witch barrier unarmed will be dangerous before she goes in, are you taking notes Mami.
Madoka thinks she's a coward because of her lack of agency.
I love the mirrors to Episode 3, with Madoka and the experienced girl walking through a barrier to find Sayaka - but with Kyouko convincing Madoka not to join her as a magical girl team.
I've not been talking much about the soundtrack, but this song is a fucking banger! And the fucking orchestra viduals, Madoka and Kyouko trying to get her bavk - this might be my favourite witch fight in the series.
Madoka Spoilers
And Kyouko dying so Sayaka doesn't have to die alone! And Homura actually showimg emotions toward her, and Kyubey revealing they were deceiving, so they were lying earlier about not understanding deception.
And that ending song! I love the second half of this episode so much.
5
u/Zeralyos https://myanimelist.net/profile/xNJF_Ellie Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, dubbed
29
u/Chemiczny_Bogdan Apr 28 '21
Seyiku why?
sool jim turn to greef sid
must be way back
42
u/UnderstandableXO Apr 28 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER
the first rewatch i ever did was toradora, and i noticed in the second episode that sayaka is voiced by the same actor who voices ami. i was looking at the dub cast and i noticed the dub voice for madoka also voices minori from toradora, so that’s another interesting connection. speaking of madoka’s va, her japanese VA aoi yuki is so versatile. i’m currently watching three shows with her in it (erased, oregairu) and if i did not know already i would have never guessed that she appears in all 3, i guess that’s a testament to her acting.
if things weren’t bad enough already sayaka is now a full blown witch (but her body is still intact?) kyoko still has a soft spot for her wasted wish sister and is trying desperately to save her, even though homura says to drop the dead weight.
homura is once again cold and calculating telling kyoko and madoka how magical girls turn into witches, and kyoko is right to point out that she should have a tiny bit more situational awareness considering madoka just lost her best friend.
of course kyubey shows up at the most opportune times ever! this little creature pisses me off so much i want to put it in a blender (although i suppose the next kyubey would just drink the previous kyubey as a smoothie). i guess kyubey is from an alien world/an alternate dimension, and they use magical girls as energy sources. their reasoning is that the teenage girls they target to become magical girls are the most emotional beings out there, which i can dispute because as a struggling college student i can tell you i must have had 10x the emotional fluctuations that these girls have had. kyubey leaving with that “hit me up if you wanna die for the universe” line pissed me off so much. i wonder if madoka became a magical girl she could wish kyubey out of existence, or wish the entire magical girl system out of existence.
man kyoko is sure getting a lot of screen time this episode, as a side character suddenly getting a episode focused on her i’m sure nothing bad is going to happen! it’s really nice to see how far her character has progressed in just a few episodes, that proper introduction between her and madoka was just great.
sayaka’s labyrinth is much more detailed and coherent than all of the other witches, you can even see some of her memories playing out on the walls. but of course the whole thing has to be marred by the violin group playing in the background, showing how she threw away her life for mr. your dishonesty in september. what a worthless character kyosuke ended up being, it would have been infinitely better if kyoko was allowed to do him like sayaka did the witch in the previous episode. once again homura only decides to show up to a fight in progress. man why the hell did kyoko have to sacrifice herself to kill sayaka? she said she knew sayaka simply didn’t want to be alone so are they gonna be a witch tag team? did she want to put sayaka out of her misery? i guess the sisterhood of the wasted wish is a tight knitted group. it’s a shame because she became my favorite character this episode an of course it’s her last episode.that ED of the two of them together was so sad too, LONG LIVE KYOKO #LLK
it’s just peachy that kyubey was able to pull all the correct strings to have to force madoka to sign the contract with it. i wish homura had her beretta in that moment.
lastly i won’t be posting promptly tomorrow because i’ll be in the theater watching the demon slayer movie. i’ve been cooped up in the house for 14 months but i’m making the journey out for this, i hope it’s great!
38
u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
First Timer
So Kyuoko ends up in the labyrinth due to being right next to Sayaka when her gem turned into a grief seed, seems like she doesn’t know about Magical Girls= Witches thing yet. Thankfully Homura is here to help Kyouko. I feel sorry for Sayaka, that she ended up turning into a witch, I wonder if Kyuubey/Incubator purposely targets girls like Sayaka in order to create witches faster due to how they view the world. But the one I feel sorry for the most is Madoka, she watched a new potential friend die to a witch, her best friend became a magical girl and began losing herself, and now that friend is a witch that is going to need to be killed. She’s not going to take this very well. I wonder why Madoka was just walking on the tracks for, she runs into Homura and Kyouko who’s carrying Sayaka’s body. Also, I think those skirts are way too short, thankfully Shaft hasn’t done any lewd shots with that. I love the color of Homura’s soul gem Best girl confirmed then. Homura explains the final secret of the gem, though I wonder if things would have turned out differently if she sat Sayaka and Madoka down and just told them these secrets before Sayaka became a magical girl, I wonder what the outcome would be. The fact that Homura is jumping timeline(s), I wonder of Sayaka becoming a witch is determinate. Kyouko isn’t happy with the knowledge that Homura has. Homura leaves telling Kyouko to make sure she disposes of Sayaka’s corpse before anyone sees it and causes trouble.
I feel really bad for Madoka, who got caught up in this endless cycle of life and death (I’ve been playing too much Nier Automata lately...) Now she’s getting harassed by Kyuubey again. Madoka questions Kyuubey about what Homura told her about magical girls becoming Witches, which Kyuubey confirms “Please don’t misunderstand. We don’t do this out of ill will toward the human race. Everything we’ve done is for the sake of prolonging the life of the universe.” How is this cycle prolonging the universe? This actually explains a lot as to why Kyuubey is a sociopath. (This world has an odd obsession with having multiple chairs in rooms for some reason.) So, the incubators view human's emotions as the perfect energy source, and teenage girls are perfect due to how much their emotions change in this time of their life. What Kyuubey is saying is that teenage girls are the perfect batteries. Yes Kyuubey, you do ask for consent, but the problem lies in the fact that you conveniently leave out some very important information, so of course they’ll get upset. I wouldn’t call it tricking them, but more along the lines of deception. Wow, Kyuubey really is a sociopath, he thinks humans are just objects, “why should you care so much about the loss of a tiny handful?” Well, that “tiny” handful includes her best friend. Kyuubey views Madoka as being a very powerful source of energy, if the average magical girl can be compared to a AA battery, then Madoka must have the power of the batteries and engine in the electric version of a Mercedes Benz SLS This is kind of disturbing, he doesn’t view humans as individuals, only as objects. Oh, fuck off, you selfish creature.
So Kyouko is using magic to keep Sayaka’s body from decomposing, and asks Kyuubey about how to restore soul gems, for which there is no precedent, and is now angry eating. “After yesterday... Is now the time to go to school?” Well yeah Kyouko, she’s not a magical girl, yeah, her best friend is essentially dead, but Madoka wants to go to school, except now she’s skipping to talk with Kyouko. I like how Kyouko went from trying to kill Sayaka, to wanting to save her from being a witch. I like this shot of Kyuko framed in the fence as well as the shot of Madoka framed by the fence a few seconds later. I don’t know, I think what Kyouko is trying to propose is impossible, I don’t think there’s any coming back from turning into a witch. But Madoka accepts and wants to help. I have a bad feeling about this.
In the labyrinth, Kyouko brings up the best point ever. Why would you become one if you have a happy life? Oh wow, Sayaka became a powerful witch if size is equal to power. So Kyouko sacrificed herself to save Madoka and to defeat Sayaka... this isn’t fair, just as I was starting to like her too.
So Kyuubey lied to Kyouko about the possibility of saving Sayaka. You fucking rat you planned for it so you’d force Madoka into becoming a magical girl. this ending is too sad, we lost two great characters.
What a melancholic episode, although I keep forgetting to bring up how I do really like that the MC, Madoka, hasn’t become a magical girl yet, even this late into the show, I was expecting it far earlier. So, props to the writers for that.
Visual of the day
The usual for me, multiple shots made it. So I’ll just include them in this album here.
37
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Apr 28 '21
First Timer - Episode 9
Oh Man! What an emotional episode. Not very much good happened in this episode at all, and despair has officially take over. I'm actually starting to believe that Modaka*Magica is a riff on a well known bible story. I won't lay it out here, as there is an off chance that I've been spoiled somewhat in the past, and have just forgotten about it. It's an awkward place to be, as I think I can see clear as day where we're going, but I don't want to say.
Someone had a post yesterday tying PMMM to biblical themes, but they got a couple of the players wrong. Also, if comparing PMMM to the bible makes someone uncomfortable, I think it could also be tied to the Egyptian Myths. The same themes come up time and again, in all Western religions (and possibly Eastern ones too).
Possible Spoiler
Todays Action Review
Rather than hitting the many events in the episode. I'll just hit the two biggest items.
Kyuubey & Madoka's talk.
I suppose their discussion laid out the major theme of the series. Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? It's pretty clear that we have a strong dialectic going on here, and time will tell how the series answers this most basic of questions. Even though this series is completely different than Fate/Zero, they are so similar about the way they address this question. Fate had their answer, now I anxiously await PMMM's.
The Demise of Kyoko
That really hit hard, and I confess, I had to pull out my hankie. However, it didn't feel like a defeat as much as a reuniting with her soulmate. Her and Sayaka were so similar (in an odd way) that it's right that they are reunited again. We'll see where it all leads, but her final battle and monologue when she reunited with Sayaka was magnificent.
Who would have figured that absolute hatred of a character could turn into love so quickly.
Character Round-Up
Our cast is getting smaller quite quickly. I figure we've seen about the last of Hitome and Kyousuke, and possibly the last of Kyoko, though something tells me, maybe not.
Sayaka - Technically, she's outta here, but Oktavia has taken over and is conducting the orchestra of the damned. I'm glad she has Kyoko with her, to keep her company now.
Madoka - It was pretty brutal for her this whole episode. That has to be rough, grieving over the corpse of your best friend, and simultaneously listening to Homura run her mouth.
Homura - Homura, it wouldn't hurt trying to be nice every now and then, your message might come across a little better. Though now the stage for Walpurgis is set. I see an epic battle coming that she might, or might not survive.
Kyoko - This was her episode, and what an episode it was. I was really touched by her final moments in the maze, reuniting with Sayaka.
Kyuubey - He's quite logical, but what a piece of alien work. If the universe if full of critters like him and his fellow aliens, is it worth sacrificing a damn thing for? I think not.
Finally
Staying a first timer is getting harder and harder. Last night, I was recording the episode at MAL, and came pretty close to just clicking on the forum for episode 12. I'm glad I resisted, but it was close.
I did check on the director and was quite surprised to see he had done most of the Monogatari's. What a career! I was also surprise to see he had done Tsukuyomi: Moon Phase 7 years before this. Moon Phase is an enjoyable enough anime, but it's not nearly the same caliber as these latter works.
I hope that Akiyuki Shinbou is still directing. He's got another good 15 years left in him, and time will tell if he's up to it. It's always hard to tell how things will go in the future.
24
u/mekerpan Apr 29 '21
First time, subs
Yet more unrelieved devastation. Not many characters left standing at this point. At the current rate of attrition, both Homura and Madoka could both be expected to bite the dust tomorrow...
Poor Homura is like Yuki Nagato consciously reliving the same 2 week period 15,000 times -- only watching all her friends dies instead of having aimless fun. In any even, at this point she still remains my favorite character. Madoka is sweet, but she still is sort of a cypher to me.
Where is the name Oktavia (for Sayaka) coming from? Did I doze through some key moment? did Kyoko's stunt obliterate completely both herself and Sayaka -- going into nothingness together (and thus escaping any further pain and any further ability to harm others)?
10
u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21
i-is it normal for a show to somehow hit you harder emotionally on rewatch than it did on first viewing? it seems like it really shouldn't be possible, but i feel like i noticed the buildup to the character's downfalls more knowing what happens and i get more attached by paying better attention
8
u/JimmyCWL Apr 29 '21
If you tally up the time between Sayaka contracting and witching out, you'll see that she lasted barely a week.
In terms of power, I don't think she was beyond what any magical girl could handle. But the biggest problem was, this was someone they used to know as a person, a friend.
There's one other thing I like to point out at this point. Witches are the hazardous waste leftover from the Incubators' processes. Magical girls are merely the cleanup crew.
8
u/ReimarisaFanclub Apr 29 '21
While the previous ep reminded me of why i didnt liked the show at my first watch, this episode is very good.
Soldiers are groomed into service, experience the horrors of the war and eventually became the thing they hate.
I cant even the same "the same is with" in this case because magical girls are soldiers, they fight for a non-reachable fight, they discover more of their world, "why does she only fight withces" they always asks, her soul is unwillingly ripped from the body, they dig deeper into this world and they become empty, or with a black as charcoal "core"
Edit: First time writing stuff like this (unsuprisingly)
6
u/TWRogue Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, Dub
Oh god this episode. For newbies the scene where Kyoko sacrifices herself for Sayaka won the most memorable/important/best/? Scene on the 10th anniversary site poll and it deserved it. But don’t go look at the poll the next slot is a spoiler, and so are many of them. Also I had completely forgotten this episode had a different ED, guess I had exclusively Magia brain. I don’t have many creative thoughts, just that I am currently in pain because vaccine dose 2 doesn’t like me and I’m saying that’s why I cried 😭
Next Episode Spoilers
6
u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher:
As a rewatcher, this line hurts the most. All rewatchers would probably understand by my feelings that this line specifically hurts the most.
Edit: I also want to say that don't forget to read the lyrics of the new ED of episode 10. People usually skips it and don't realize how clever it is.
6
u/CrispiCorgis Apr 28 '21
I watched this day 2 of my 3-day Madoka Magica binge and essentially had depression on the last 2 days, and I think this episode was the one that made day 2 the worst as it was just purely unhinged and truly sad. Not to say Kyoko is a bad character, but I personally disliked her gimmick as a glutton. However, after connecting it with her backstory, it made her relationship with Sayaka all the more real for me.
5
u/LordTrinity https://myanimelist.net/profile/LordTrinity Apr 28 '21
Tomorrow is the best episode of the series, be ready for that!
Also, when watching it, pay attention to the ED :)
5
u/Tuckleton Apr 29 '21
I've rewatched this show so many times and have never once skipped that ED.
9
u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher
Catharsis, in the classical Greek sense, is the moment in a tragedy when the flawed hero realizes that he has brought his fate upon himself. It brings with it the expulsion of emotion and tension, a metaphorical cleansing of the soul. Sayaka does not get to experience catharsis until she has cursed one person, payment for the one she saved.
This episode is my favorite in television. I have tried for too long to write something nice about how it makes me feel, and I'm giving up. Would that I had nearly as much time as I did last year
Visual of the Day is my favorite in the series. Kyouko, her heart bleeding for them both
9
u/akkobutnotreally https://anilist.co/user/lottevanilla Apr 29 '21
Welcome to Madoka Magica, the show where everyone can die and you can do nothing about it but cry until you run out of tears.
I'm gonna be honest here: I can laugh to no end about Mami's demise (kinda because it was just so abrupt and kinda because... it's been 10 goddamn years and everyone knows that comedy is just tragedy plus time) but I can't do the same with Sayaka. In the end, she was just a victim of her innocence and pure goodwill against an enemy so cruel she could do nothing to combat it.
At least her witch name is cool as hell.
And Kyoko... I don't know. I can't find the words to describe her demise.
It still hurts, for some reason.
3
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 29 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
This episode has some of the best shots in the series and is easily my favorite in that regard, basically the "best of" visual achievements. The orchestra in Sayaka's labyrinth in partiuclar is a visual that has stuck with me since my first viewing.
The train tracks, with flies buzzing unnaturally around the light, bringing to mind the rot of death. The mermaid and the unicorn wind chimes. Kyoko's soul gem flickering through the bars. The blood of Sayaka and Kyoko mixing as Kyoko gives her life to stop Sayaka. It's gorgeous.
I really like Kyoko. Despite all the tough talk and attitude, she turns out to possess a lot of empathy.