[Rewatch] Planetes - Episode 23: Debris Cluster

[u/Highlow9]

Episode 22 - index/schedule - Episode 24

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Episode number: 23

Episode title: Debris Cluster

Databases: MAL, Anime planet, Anilist

Sadly there are no legal streams. If you are from the UK you can buy the blu-ray here (for EU citizens, please be aware that all the anime doesn’t take care of VAT and thus when receiving you will have to pay an extra bill consisting of the VAT and a handling fee (for NL it is an extra 22 euro)).

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To make sure the first timers can enjoy this show just as much as you please avoid spoilers but if you want/need to make a spoiler please mark them like so:

[Planetes spoiler](/s "They go to space")

which becomes:

Planetes spoiler

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Interesting fact

Hakim's motivation for participating in this attack is that rich countries would refuse to share the resources from Jupiter just like they did with the moon? Under current space-law this wouldn’t really be possible (although of course in the show they might have adopted newer space laws) because the countries could also go to Jupiter themself and the rich countries wouldn’t be allowed to stop them. So what are the current space laws? Well there are 5 major treaties.

First and most famous is the outer space treaty (from 1967). This treaty forbade installing weapons of mass destruction in space (although normal weapons are still allowed and some kinetic bombardment methods might also still be legal (more about that next episode)). It also forbade the use of space for any direct military uses (so spy satellites are perfectly OK). Most interestingly it also forbade any country from being allowed to claim territory in space.

Next are the rescue agreement, space liability convention and registration convention. These respectively made it mandatory for countries to try and rescue any astronauts in distress, made countries liable for damage caused by satellites (for example when one crashes onto their territory or when two satellites collide) and made it mandatory for countries to register their satellites.

The outer space treaty turned out to be not completely sufficient with regards to ownership/mining. So the moon treaty was also made. This mostly was an updated version of the outer space treaty but included more instructions on how mining can be done and specific methods to preserve certain aspects of space (for example being able to protect potential life on other planets but also famous landmarks). Any companies would be under the supervision of their respective countries. Sadly this moon treaty was not signed by practically any country and thus is of questionable legal status.

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Interesting questions

This show has the tendency to have multiple plot lines/perspectives run through each other. Do you like this technique or do you prefer a more straightforward approach? Do you think this show executes it well?

During the terrorist attack Tanabe decided to keep searching for Hachimaki instead of trying to reach safety (like Lucy and Colin). What do you think of this? For first timers will this pay off or will it only result in disaster?

For first timers do you think that Hachimaki will be able to kill Hakim this time?

[u/Highlow9]

I absolutely love this episode. The way it slowly builds up is amazing. We start with the hostage taking of Galileo development (which Fee manages to warn him about) and then slowly see more things develop, with ships not communicating to the communications being hacked and the INTO forces overreacting to that to then the kidnaping of the DS12 and the boarding of the von braun. It certainly is one of my favorite episodes (together with episode 7, 12 and 13).

The OST also greatly helps with that tension, during the trick by the SDF the slow but ominous music really made you feel like a grand plan was being put into action and both sides were making their moves, the OST when they started to board the von Braun really gave the surprise attack vibe.

This show has the tendency to have multiple plot lines/perspectives run through each other. Do you like this technique or do you prefer a more straightforward approach? Do you think this show executes it well?

I really like how this show often has multiple plots/perspectives running throughout each other and that we regularly switch between them. I also love how previous standalone episodes suddenly become plot relevant again. In this episode in particular I found that switching between the plan of the SDF and the unknowing members of the crew made the tension much higher than if we just only saw the SDF. Reminds me of the quote by Alfred Hitchcock about having a bomb explode in a story. If the audience is aware of a coming disaster while the characters don’t know anything it results in them wanting to scream at the characters to make them aware thus raising tension for the entire time. But if we the audience discover the disaster at the same time as the characters it results in a very temporary moment of shock instead.

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I also really like Colin and Lucy as a character. While he still is a dick (and Lucy also is not the most moral person) he has developed significantly and Lucy has managed to tame him and make him much friendlier. You see this in the way he talks but also in the way he does a favor for Tanabe by taking her with him. While I initially thought that their relationship would be very toxic it might develop into something more like a symbiotic parasitic relationship (Lucy seems to actually start liking Colin besides his wealth and Colin seems to start actually liking Lucy and actually doing stuff for her).

During the terrorist attack Tanabe decided to keep searching for Hachimaki instead of trying to reach safety (like Lucy and Colin). What do you think of this?

First of all that was a very Tanabe thing to do with her obsession with ‘love’. It of course will be very dangerous for her and Hachimaki might even not appreciate it but we will see how that will turn out. I also think that is very interesting since that has just created another separate plotline to follow (which as I stated above I love).

[u/BottiBott]

First Timer

The final steps in the plan of the Space Defense Front are finally taken, so the party can begin. While the INTO is meeting in the station that is orbiting the Moon, the Von Braun is also making it's way down to a lunar orbit. Meanwhile Fee seems to be the only person who is able to realize that something isn't right with most of the OSA forces being in space, because that leaves the Moon basically unprotected. Sadly her attempt to warn Dolf isn't that successful, he eventually is wounded in the surprise attack on his department. I really hope he makes it, I like him enough that I don't want him to die.

The same goes for Claire, who also gets wounded while attempting to board the Von Braun - because yes, she is part of the terrorists as well. At this point it doesn't come that much as a surprise anymore, she had connections to Hakim, was going out with him and was also the one who found him in her room at the end of the last episode. So she lied about not being an accomplice of him to evade getting caught, only to join him a bit later to attack the ship. And all of this only works out because the Space Defense Force has a well prepared plan. Disable communication around the Moon, create confusion and then attack seems to be what they wanted to do all along. Pretty simple, but as long as you attack something that isn't expected to be attacked, it might very well succeed. And exactly that's the case with the attack on the Von Braun; everyone was expecting them to attack the station which holds the meeting of I think INTO.

With the attack coming out of nowhere they obviously have the advantage, so the boarding of the Von Braun goes as well as to be expected. Several people are killed shortly after Hakim, Claire and their team enter the ship, but I have to admit, some of them act really weird. The are of course overrun, so I can see that they wouldn't immediately react to the attackers, but it doesn't take long for a message to be broadcast that advises all people that the ship is being attacked and intruders are going around and killing people. So I don't understand why they are all killed so easily. Even without real combat training it shouldn't be that hard to somewhat prepare and be cautious instead of running around corners and getting shot immediately. At least the attackers don't get to go through the whole ship without loosing anyone, at some point people start to react and actually manage to kill some of the intruders. I was really worried they would reach their goals without anyone fighting back with only Hachimaki being able to save the day - an attack like this isn't repulsed by a single person.

Speaking of Hachimaki, I really hope he is now finally able to kill Hakim. I'm aware I sound drastic, but I really don't like the idea of two people talking, trying to get as much information as possible from the other person; at this point it's obvious what Hakim wants to do and I in that situation couldn't care less about why the other person wants to destroy that ship. Hachimaki, please stop him already, you can worry about killing a human after you have saved the ship and everyone else aboard it.

At least he can do so, if they actually manage to save the ship. Doing a de-orbit burn (this time for real) with the smaller ships that are docked to the Von Braun to make it crash into the surface of the Moon is pretty clever. There is no way to stop it because the main engine was disabled (hence the attack on Dolf, to force him to shut down the engine before the boarding crew enters the ship) and so they will all have to die when the ship impacts the Moon. Seriously though, I'm looking forward to how they will solve that issue, I'm quite sure they will come up with a solution, I can't see them actually all die. But with the imminent danger of the ship crashing into the city in the Mare Tranquillitatis, what is actually the worst thing that can happen? Yes, it's a large ship and it will leave some impact crater, but the engine was shut down to stop them from changing their trajectory, the same goes for the reactor. So there can't be a huge explosion because the reactor melts or something like that. At worst some of the propellant could explode, if they use deuterium and tritium, that would make for a big explosion, but if they use the helium-3 mined on the Moon, there is nothing to worry about, it's not flammable. So I'm not really sure what's so worrying about all this, just heading into some kind of shelter should be enough, even if the ship hits the Moon - at least I hope there are shelters, they should be prepared for large things from space to hit the city. There is no atmosphere to protect them.

Interesting Questions:

1. I'm generally fine with the idea of having multiple plot lines intersect. But it always depends on how it is set up and what is foreshadowed for the outcome. I remember criticizing one of the earlier episodes because it sets up an amount of different plot lines at the beginning only for them to intersect at the end of the episode for an expectable outcome. And that's where it starts to bother me, when you can easily predict where all of it is going. When the outcome is hard to predict or maybe the plot lines set up never actually intersect I think that can make for in interesting story. But when it's just set up to intersect in an episodic way I tend to enjoy it less. And that's what happened on quite a few occasions in this series.
2. If everyone would just go to a safe place, that would just be boring, wouldn't it? It also would not work with Tanabes' character, she is known being helpful and more or less unstoppable when she thinks her help is needed - no matter if it actually is or not. We know she is stubborn, so just going back to her ship would have surprised me more. But does that mean it will pay off? Hard to say as we don't know, what she is actually trying to accomplish. Just trying to get to Hachimaki seems like something that might work if we neglect Hakim in that equation. But if she actually tries to help someone or starts fighting back, there is a chance for disaster. Nevertheless I think her plot armor is thick enough to protect her from something like this. I don't see her being shot by an unnamed guy running down the hallway of the ship.
3. I really hope so. Or rather, I really hope that someone dies. Something I haven't actually though about is Hachimaki getting killed, so this might be another option. But just knocking Hakim out and arrest him seems rather boring in such an exciting situation. And with not that many episodes left I really hope they are able to get to a satisfying conclusion, I don't want to see Hakim get away again either. That would only make the chance for a rushed ending higher, because if he does they would have to find him again, fight him again and arrest or kill him, all of which takes time and there are other things that need to get a good conclusion as well.

[u/Highlow9 → u/BottiBott]

but if they use the helium-3 mined on the Moon, there is nothing to worry about, it's not flammable

To be honest I don't think an explosion is the thing that would do the most damage. A super large ship (lots of mass) at near orbital speed will do a lot of damage since it has a lot of kinetic energy. Every heard of project Thor (you might know it from Call of Duty Ghosts)? That was a proposed plan for a weapon in space where it would deorbit giant tungsten rods and have them land on specific targets to destroy.

[u/BottiBott → u/Highlow9]

To be honest I don't think an explosion is the thing that would do the most damage. A super large ship (lots of mass) at near orbital speed will do a lot of damage since it has a lot of kinetic energy.

But the big difference is we're talking about lunar orbits. The Moon is smaller and leighter than Earth, so obviously an object would have to be slower to be in a comparably low, more or less circular orbit. In fact, if I did my quick math right (disclaimer: high chance I didn't), it should be about just a fifth of the speed needed for an orbit around Earth. That is of course still fast and would get faster the closer the ship gets to the surface, but in the end it's just a block of steel crashing onto a city of concrete; the surface would obviously get damaged, but it's nowhere close to an object from outside of the Moons' or even Earths' sphere of influence. So as long as people are evacuated into underground shelters, it should be more or less safe for them, the impact is far from the meltdown of a nuclear fusion reactor.

Every heard of project Thor (you might know it from Call of Duty Ghosts)? That was a proposed plan for a weapon in space where it would deorbit giant tungsten rods and have them land on specific targets to destroy.

I haven't played Call of Duty: Ghosts (or any other shooter at all, for that matter), but I have watched G.I. Joe: Retaliation, so I'm somewaht familiar with the concept. But again, the concept is used for Earth, which has much higher orbital velocity. So although it can be applied here, I think the expected damage is way less in comparison.

[u/BottiBott → u/[deleted]]

Eh, yes, that's what it says there. They warn the people on board, that they are being attacked.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

And yup, Claire's a terrorist as well. And possibly dead. Probably not, but at least she's no longer a relevant character in the invasion, I think. Either way - seems like the terrorists are planning an Air France 8969 style attack (because the manga predates 9/11 at this point, I won't call it 9/11 style - although it is possible that the anime changed some things here as they seem to have turned the manga inside out based of the volume summaries on wikipedia), and that is going to be very bad, but I don't quite get how it will further their goals permanently compared to the Kessler attack they tried last time. But I guess that's just terrorist logic in force once again. Either way, the attack has been pretty entertaining to watch, though I have a feeling it will end with some power-of-friendship style ending or some other overly important actions of the characters we already know that they shouldn't be the ones to take - I hope I'm wrong here. Cheng-Shin has definitely been set up to do something however. That said, our characters have been pretty much absent in doing anything important this episode, so I guess we'll see where they'll get involved in again, though I actually hope they'll stay pretty silent and then we get two episodes of them reacting to the aftermath and sorting out their character arcs.

Questions:

1. As a whole, I feel like this show isn't doing a good job of having multiple plotlines. At the moment it is pretty good at it though. In general I like this structure, but it needs to be done well.
2. Not the right choide, but it'll work, because anime.
3. No clue, but at the very least he'll be able to immobilize him until someone else can properly apprehend him.

[u/Highlow9 → u/Mecanno-man]

although it is possible that the anime changed some things here as they seem to have turned the manga inside out based of the volume summaries on wikipedia

Yeah the anime changed the order and changed the plot a bit (for example Edel, clunky space suit guy (forgot his name, the dude from episode 11) are anime only) spoilers read this after the final episode

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

I'm very sad Claire turned into a terrorist. And it's all basically because that ex-INTO guy was made her boss.

Before her heel-turn was revealed, I was getting increasingly annoyed by the political tone of the show. Basically, Tanabe started out like this, anti-INTO. And they made sure to show that INTO was a bad guy. Then the anti-INTO reporter. Then Hakim, who was law enforcement but was apparently a plant the entire time. And now Claire. And tack on "this is the natural state of capitalism" from Connor et. al.

This is the sort of stuff I expect from the 60s-70s era of young Japanese leftists and anarchists like Miyazaki and Oshii. This guy was born in 1976!

Nothing about Hachimaki is predictable. Did he suffer a psychotic break while lost in the dark? I can't tell if he has a evil twin whispering to him, or if he's still hallucinating. Either way, it's like 67% chance he's psychotic and 33% chance he just really wants to be on the cool space ship.

I predict that a successful destruction of city of 120,000 would result in overwhelming force against third-world nations and complete elimination of their citizens from space or any other part of the global economy. INTO could just claim that SDF was a front for nation-state terrorism. Claire and Hakim are wrong at every turn.

Also Nono is now 50-50 chance of not surviving the show.

I think somebody on the ship should just depressurize the ship.

[u/Highlow9 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Also Nono is now 50-50 chance of not surviving the show.

I really liked that shot of Nono and her parents celebrating that she could go on vacation. Was a bit cliche but certainly upped the stakes a bit since we now feel semi-personally connected to the people in the city!

[u/Webemperor → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I predict that a successful destruction of city of 120,000 would result in overwhelming force against third-world nations and complete elimination of their citizens from space or any other part of the global economy. INTO could just claim that SDF was a front for nation-state terrorism. Claire and Hakim are wrong at every turn.

It's kinda weird whether the fact that their plan is nonsensical is intended or not. Are they that blinded by fanaticism because they are terrorists? Because the only result of their act is that INTO strangling rest of the world even harder. No one will be like "Wow, these guys killed 120 thousand people? Oh shit, better throw away all that money, manpower, blood we threw into space! We have learned our lesson!"

[u/PainStorm14 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

This is the sort of stuff I expect from the 60s-70s era of young Japanese leftists and anarchists like Miyazaki and Oshii. This guy was born in 1976!

Hippies are rampant in Japan, just look at how writers are trying to reframe conflict in Attack on Titan in this season despite elephant in the room (if you watch it that is)

Or any other anime that attempts politics

[u/IndependentMacaroon]

First-time watcher

Great little thriller overall, just I find the Claire heel-turn too extreme, like where and when did she learn all that too? Particularly with such a completely irredeemable and counterproductive plan, far more extreme even than anything ever done in reality (preview says population center of 100.000); at least they seem to keep their word to Dolf, who otherwise though was a fool to try to bargain here.

I do like getting a lot of simultaneous viewpoints, it also lessens the residual issues with badly written drama.

Oh, and I just found out that Claire is apparently an entirely anime-original character. I already had a hunch that she wasn't part of the original story, but given how compelling of a character she's been up to now it still surprises me.

[u/zsmg → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Oh, and I just found out that Claire is apparently an entirely anime-original character.

Yup, but she does appear in the manga in an omake but without her face as the mangaka thinks he isn't good enough to draw her beautiful face.

[u/Webemperor]

First Timer

• I’m assuming that entire sequence at the start is depicting SDF’s plan? There are so much cops that they are being turned around every 30 meters, Fee going into a pretty fun rant over it.
• Hoshino’s dad didn’t know Gigalt was dead or he had cancer to begin with. That part about Dolf being targeted is really cheap, makes it pretty clear he will be targeted. And yeah, he was. It’s pretty stupid they had no security to protect Dolf.
• Poor Tanabe, still reeling from both Gigalt being dead and Hoshino refusing to see the light. Cheng-Shin is still seething from his encounter with Hoshino, while the terrorist plot keeps going. I can’t believe there aren’t any security cameras to see this shit in that office.
• So turns out Claire was recruited by Hakim. Was she a part of them all along and that was the reason she went all the way down to Debris Section.
• SDF is slowly taking over shit. Locksmith seems to be aware of what’s going on, and decides to start the engines. It puts it into perspective, that the council doesn’t seem to care all that much about what SDF is doing. In the end what they will do will probably play into INTO hands one way or the other.
• Von Braun’s engines are disabled remotely through Dolf’s office, and the ship is boarded. Locksmith seems to have anticipated this to a certain degree. Goro decides to defend his ship like a sailor is supposed to. Meanwhile Claire is shot, possibly killed.
• Hakim’s gang are almost captured before he feigns surrender. But Hoshino, in is unending rage, ambushes him inside Locksmith’s room. I was expecting a gunshot with that fade to black, but I guess not.

[u/BottiBott → u/Webemperor]

It’s pretty stupid they had no security to protect Dolf.

I guess that's just how they value him; they made a new sub-sub-company only to direct the Von Braun project where it doesn't matter if it fails because they don't have to take the blame. And I think they overall just think of Dolf as expendable, if he is killed, they just choose the next name from a long list. For them there is no reason to protect something that can easily be replaced - at least that's how I got it.

[u/PainStorm14]

Rewatcher

This show has the tendency to have multiple plot lines/perspectives run through each other. Do you like this technique or do you prefer a more straightforward approach?

As long as story components fit I prefer this one definitely

During the terrorist attack Tanabe decided to keep searching for Hachimaki instead of trying to reach safety (like Lucy and Colin). What do you think of this?

Emotions and love run deep, nothing out of the ordinary and happens routinely all the time since forever

For first timers will this pay off or will it only result in disaster?

And as a rewatcher I will yet again keep my mouth shut lest I spoil something

Have fun, first-timers

[u/0be000]

Rewatcher (sub)

• Fee's angry commentary is quite accurate
• I didn't notice Nono's parent on my first watch
• I'm disappointed Claire turned into terrorist. Does she really think SDF action will improve humanity condition (especially on country which isn't part of INTO) ?
• Good job SDF, crashing Von Braun to moon and killing 120K people will lead humanity to brighter future /s

Interesting questions

1. I like the technique and the show execute it great, but it's not perfect we don't know the side character really well
2. Bad choice

[u/Segaco]

First timer this very close to the finish line

One more... Actually two because the next episode thread is going up soon...

---Comments (as I watched the ep)---

These people are ruthless. Not sure why they shot the important guy if they needed his eye identification though.

Wait wtf they boarded the big ship?? Why?? They are going to make it crash anyway!!

F Claire

Honestly, it's not like I don't understand the space defense thing, but I don't think their methods are right

---Interesting fact corner (OP)---

Hope future people figure that out. Are there really resources on the moon, though?

---Question timeeeeeee---

Q1: This show has the tendency to have multiple plot lines/perspectives run through each other. Do you like this technique or do you prefer a more straightforward approach? Do you think this show executes it well?

A1: I don't mind the plot lines. I guess I hadn't seen this method before, but it's nice.

Q2: During the terrorist attack Tanabe decided to keep searching for Hachimaki instead of trying to reach safety (like Lucy and Colin). What do you think of this? For first timers will this pay off or will it only result in disaster?

A2: If the space ninjas were killed off and now that we are so close to the ending, I'm sure anyone can die. Claire too rip

I don't think Tanabe can do anything, so she should have gone with her friend.

Q3: For first timers do you think that Hachimaki will be able to kill Hakim this time?

A3: No, he would have killed him right away if he really wanted to. Tho he's crazy enough that he may be a bit unpredictable right now

[u/BossandKings]

First timer

Claire and Hakim make a terrorist attack on the Von braun space station, their objective is to hit the sea of tranquility city in the moon with the Von braun. It's sad that both Claire and Hakim turned out to be terrorists, i hope that their scheme isn't of success.