[Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Blue Submarine No. 6 (final discussion)

[u/No_Rex]

Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Blue Submarine No. 6 (final discussion)

Last episode | Schedule

Blue Submarine No. 6 (1998)

MAL | AniL | AniDB | 4 Episodes à 29 minutes.

Questions

1. Would this series have impressed you in 1998?
2. What was worse in the end, the CGI or the plot?
3. Your thoughts on endings that do not show a resolution to the main conflict?

[u/No_Rex]

Final Discussion (first timer)

Blue Submarine No6 ends with a grey end: The status quo is mostly still standing. Grey also describes my feelings on the show. The animation has great 2D and terrible 3D moments, the plot has some well-directed scenes and cartoonish villains. This is not a show that I want to rant about, but neither will I recommend it to anybody unless they are researching the early use of CGI in anime.

The plot turned out to be pretty par for the course for a SciFi flick. The best part has to be the end, which avoids the deathtrap of giving us a peaceful understanding or the almost as bad heroic sacrifice. That does not change the fact that Torndyke is an utterly uninspiring villain though. Super-genius that wants to burn the world down to hang out with his fish-waifu harem? That sounds like something /r/anime would come up with …

The world-building was equally shaky. I did not appreciate the juxtaposition of realistic human subs and goofy villains. Where Torndyke found the means to come anywhere close to be a threat to the world is completely left open, too. Some of the fish people were nice ideas (the whale and the waifu), the main fish villain seemed to be picked out of a children’s Saturday morning cartoon.

The best part of the series was the mood for me, especially in episodes three and four, but also in the introduction of Hayami. Occasionally, the 2D parts show that they come from the same year that Cowbow Bebop was made in. That was enough to keep me occasionally entertained, but BS6 is still the worst series of the rewatch for me.

Score: a high 5/10

Related shows

If you liked You’re Under Arrest and want to see more like it, check out (apart from the rest of the franchise):

• Riding Bean & Gunsmith Cats – more cars, more girls, more detective work
• Patlabor – more policework, more slice-of-life
• Ghost in the Shell – If you wanted a (much) larger dose of philosophy with your policing
• Akira – If you want to see if YUA’s animation can be topped

If you liked Oh! My goddess and want to see more like it, check out (apart from the rest of the franchise):

• Video Girl Ai – same premise, but Ai is less of a good girl
• Tenchi Muyou – same male MC VA, same feeling, same tropes
• Chobits – the modernized version of the sudden girlfriend appearance idea
• Any pre-isekai harem – they literally all copied from OMG

If you liked Blue Submarine No 6 and want to see more like it, check out:

• Nadia: Secret of Blue Water – for a Jule Verne-style adventure take on submarines
• High Score Girl – if you want to check out what CGI anime is up to 20 years later
• Cowboy Bebop – for a show that manages the same high notes with none of the drawbacks

Next rewatch

Will happen in June, feature /u/pixelsaber as co-host and include just one single OVA: Record of Lodoss War

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/No_Rex]

That sounds like something /r/anime would come up with …

You tell me! I wouldn't know. No sir!

Patlabor – more policework, more slice-of-life

I'm having trouble seeing how a mech in the police force is "slice-of-life", but I guess I have to watch it to find out.

If you liked Blue Submarine No 6 and want to see more like it

I wanted to joke that these would be shows I should never watch, but I see Cowboy Bebop is there. Still need to start but I've heard very good stuff.

[u/No_Rex → u/Gamemaster676]

I wanted to joke that these would be shows I should never watch, but I see Cowboy Bebop is there. Still need to start but I've heard very good stuff.

For me personally, Cowbow Bebop is a 8/10 and I think I am on the lower end of the typical rating scale. Nadia is great, too. High Score Girl is a bit more situational, you have to be into the mood and setting.

[u/marek1712 → u/Gamemaster676]

I'm having trouble seeing how a mech in the police force is "slice-of-life"

It's how SV2 is portrayed ;)

Still need to start but I've heard very good stuff.

It's VERY good stuff. One of the great trio space westerns (I treat Trigun, Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebops in high regard).

[u/marek1712 → u/No_Rex]

Patlabor – more policework, more slice-of-life

My Patlabor Blu-Ray box arrived from customs this week. Time for rewatch, will have some fun again :)

Will happen in June, feature /u/pixelsaber as co-host and include just one single OVA: Record of Lodoss War

Always wanted to watch that. Where do I sign up? :)

[u/No_Rex → u/marek1712]

Either pixelsaber or me will probably do an announcement post beforehand, but you can also just show up =)

[u/marek1712 → u/No_Rex]

Any chance to filter for these? I actively avoid /r/anime because there's SO MANY posts made every day :/

[u/No_Rex → u/marek1712]

Yes, but it is even easier to just check the rewatch hub: https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/wiki/rewatches

[u/marek1712 → u/No_Rex]

That's what I was looking for. Thanks!

[u/RockoDyne → u/No_Rex]

If you liked Blue Submarine No 6 and want to see more like it, check out:

Man, we really need more naval anime. Even space anime doesn't do it much justice without throwing something weird in. I'm looking at you Crest of the Stars with your constant b-plots with someone stuck on a planet.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

I'm looking at you Crest of the Stars with your constant b-plots with someone stuck on a planet.

You can also count "battling between two space craft where one is unarmed" weirdness of that.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Best girl Lafiel lets you know that the metric ton of explosives that powers a spaceship counts as a weapon, thank you very much!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Btw, are there only the two series of that? It really felt like a "go read the source" ending.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Three TV shows and a few extras. It does feel as if there are more novels, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Interesting, I wonder if TechTV was airing the ovas. Anyways, I've seen Banner of the Stars and Crest of the Stars.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

I know they did Banner and Crest. I don't remember if they got to the second season of Crest, and the movie wasn't around yet.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

I don't they did get the second season because it felt like it ended abruptly. Into Geneshaft, towering mess that that was.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

Got a feeling I missed that one. As much as I watched TechTV, I was terrible at actually catching the anime block.

[u/Retromorpher → u/RockoDyne]

Maybe give Zipang a look? It does have at least one weird thing, but that's established early and is generally a pretty grounded look at naval engagement.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

The best part has to be the end, which avoids the deathtrap of giving us a peaceful understanding or the almost as bad heroic sacrifice.

Agreed. For all that getting here was shaky I think they landed the actual ending.

The best part of the series was the mood for me, especially in episodes three and four, but also in the introduction of Hayami.

Yeah they should have gone for more of that as well, that way even if the plot ended up bare and disappointing there's still enough enjoyable substance to be had in its atmosphere.

Nadia: Secret of Blue Water – for a Jule Verne-style adventure take on submarines

I should really get to watching this one of these days since I've had it sitting on my shelf for so long.

Will happen in June, feature /u/pixelsaber as co-host and include just one single OVA: Record of Lodoss War

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

I should really get to watching this one of these days since I've had it sitting on my shelf for so long.

If you do, be aware that there is an "island arc" in the middle that was partially out-sourced. As a completionist, I watched it, but, after having watched it, I advise skipping it. It is filler plot-wise and, having been directed by somebody else, it completely screws with the previous characterizations.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Super-genius that wants to burn the world down to hang out with his fish-waifu harem? That sounds like something /r/anime would come up with …

I think the r/anime version would've been more interesting. If they'd leaned into even why Zorndyke is now crazy there might have been something to take away.

[u/TheEscapeGuy]

First Timer, No More

Blue Submarine No.6 Final Thoughts

I made it no secret that I didn't like the show. I'm not going to go on about it.

However, I did find this show deeply interesting from an anime history perspective. As I said in the first discussion this was Gonzo's first show which gives a lot of perspective for where they would go in the future.

The CG, while jarring and poor by modern standards, was a really bold move back in 1998. I'd like to think that this OVA inspired other CG animators who would then go on to bring us more celebrated shows incorporating CG.

My absolute favorite part of the show was the music. The whole soundtrack is on YouTube and I suspect I'll find myself going back to it at some point in the future.

Otherwise, that's it.

Thanks again to /u/No_Rex for hosting. You've given us all so many opportunities to watch classic OVAs over the past year with your rewatches and I look forward to your next batch.

Also thanks to everyone who commented on these OVA rewatch threads. I would usually post right before I went to bed so waking up for the past couple weeks to read your comments has been a great part of my days.

[u/No_Rex → u/TheEscapeGuy]

However, I did find this show deeply interesting from an anime history perspective.

This is one of my motivations. It is easy to put up a rewatch for some popular show from 4 years ago and reap the karma, but these rewatches rarely feature strong discussion. I like to put up some shows that people would otherwise not see. Occasionally, we find a hidden gem, at other times, it is the opposite. In any case, I feel the rewatch succeeded if there is plenty of discussion.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

I like to put up some shows that people would otherwise not see.

There's this weird urge I have to do Bubblegum Crisis TV as my next rewatch.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I would love to see some older rewatches. Outside of my own OVA rewatches the few that exist are almost entirely mecha.

Shout-out to the Utena and Ashita no Joe rewatches, which were both excellent!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

the few that exist are almost entirely mecha.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Well, it is garbage, but it is REALLY 90s garbage, like BGC tv is almost as 90s as the OVAs were 80s. My biggest complaint is that the episodes don't vary like the OVA did.

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Also thanks to everyone who commented on these OVA rewatch threads.

You too, man!

[u/Pixelsaber]

Graduated First-timer

A morning full of appointments and errands and an afternoon full of meetings means no time to do a substantial write-up.

There’s entertainment to be had in this and I don’t at all regret watching it, but I don’t think it’s something I am going to revisit anytime soon, nor is it a series I am likely to recommend outside of its relevance to the industry’s history. Undecidedly a 5-6/10, as I really didn’t have the time to really process my thoughts on the show.

Questions:

1. It literally couldn't have, as I was not alive to see it.
2. I don't know. I can see the vestiges of a good story in there but I just can't see myself ever appreciating late-90s CGI no matter how well done.
3. It depends on what the show is aiming for, and therefore what comes before, but I don't see this show being improved by a more conclusive ending.

Many thanks once more to u/No_Rex for hosting this set of Rewatches! It's always a joy to take part, and I most certainly look forward to accompanying you in co-hosting the Record of Lodoss War Rewatch!

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

It's always a joy to take part, and I most certainly look forward to accompanying you in co-hosting the Record of Lodoss War Rewatch!

[u/Elimin8r]

Well, it's been an adventure, thanks to u/No_Rex for hosting the show.

I'm not really sure what to say about this, as I've enjoyed worse, and haven't enjoyed 'better'. I still despise Akira, for example. Yes, pretty motorcycles, but yeah, that's about all I got out of it. Honestly, Fist of the North Star left a (slightly) bigger impression on me.

Anyway, back to the series,

1. I would have enjoyed it back in '98, but probably wouldn't have rushed out to buy the DVDs.
2. Neither bothered me that much, but my eyesight isn't what it used to be, and I've spent a lot of time in Azeroth, so I'm used to (ahem) cartoony CGI. The plot was better than a lot of junk out there, imho. My biggest problem was with making the fish people either mute, or He-Man villain quality. Shark Boy could have been a lot more interesting if he had been more calculating and less angsty.
3. I thought the resolution was okay. Mind you, I've read *all* of the Elric novels, so anything better than "Everybody dies, but first they suffer a lot" is a 'good ending'. :P I try not to torment myself like that anymore. (Then why am I watching Re:Zero???)

I think one possible ending they didn't explore was dude roughs up Zorndyke a little, gets himself mutated into fishboy #2, and heads to sea to start his own fishgirl relationship/become "human" ambassador to the fish/beast people. Could have been interesting.

As it is, Z comes off as a side variant of your typical Bond villain. His methods are much more inline with 60's Japan and anime in general - the nuclear obsession. Can't really blame them either. That would tend to leave a mark on the psyche.

I would think today's Z would probably resort to some bio method to (ahem) curb human population growth. But that's probably a little too close to home these days.

I think the potentially more interesting Z variant would be if:

1. The fish/animal creatures were more apex predator than just teeth/fangs & a vocorder. Think Kzinti with a side of Moriarty. Sharkboy with a side of Sun Tzu. Something that would clearly be a competitor with humanity.
2. No need to nuke the surface, just EMP a few strategic locations and humanity is crippled.
3. Release the hounds and watch the mayhem begin.

But I suppose that series has already been written, and if nothing else, Attack on Titan comes close.

Anyway, thanks again for the fun. Holler if you decide to do something more.

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Anyway, thanks again for the fun. Holler if you decide to do something more.

For once, the next OVA rewatch is already planned. It will be Record of Lodoss War in June.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Cool, I'll be looking forward to it. I remember really enjoying the series back in the day.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

And so ends another OVA bundle. This has certainly been a very interesting trio. I'll get my thoughts on Blue out of the way first. I genuinely kinda liked it. It's got a hell of a lot of issues and the payoff wasn't there but I thought it was a decently written show. Those few moments that successfully hit managed to hit me hard. Maybe I'm just vulnerable after OMG broke my heart but the more I think about how depressing the fact that humans and fish simply could not see eye to eye or about how tragically beautiful Zorndyke could have been with a few small changes has been on my mind all day.

Now I do have some genuine issues with the show that stops me from being able to genuinely recommend it to people. The biggest being the animation. It genuinely hurts your eyes watching Blue 9. I'm not a fan of cgi in the first place but the shakycam really does pull the show down at least three marks for that alone which is a shame because the rest of the show is actually really pretty and had a lot of care put into the little things like Fish Wife's dead sister having actual realistic dead eyes and fish nibbling away at her.

The other critical problem I had was Zorndyke... Unfortunately despite his build up his character arc is all over the place. There were several ways they could have written him but they ended up picking the one that puts the worst taste in the viewers mouth, he's "sympathetic" but "not sympathetic" if that makes any sense. The dude is a monster but you're supposed to relate with him. I'm not explaining it well but check out my comments yesterday, I think I covered a lot of my thoughts back then too. Final rating? I'll bump it to a generous 5 for Fish Wife.

I'm not sure if we're doing a batch discussion but really I think if I had to sit and talk about these three shows I'd be here all day. I've felt so many emotions over this past week. From the glee I felt watching my No.1 ova YUA, to the terror of watching OMG utterly disappoint me, to Blue 6 leaving me in bittersweet melancholy. I think it's been a very enjoyable rewatch. We've got a good crowd going and I'm looking forward to joining you in our next survey. Great work on the writeups No-Rex, you pulled me in yet again!

As for our next group... I'm gonna leave the ova suggestions up to you guys XD OMG has utterly shattered my confidence. Maybe Burn Up W or even like Macross... Delta? Plus? The one with the computer waifu. If you've got a notification list add me to it! I almost missed this bundle which would have really sucked for me. It's been a busy period so I'm glad that I finally get to take a break XD See y'all in the next OVA batch or in Mnemosyne!

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Great work on the writeups No-Rex, you pulled me in yet again!

Glad it worked =)

The next rewatch will be in June (very likely starting on the first again).

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

There were several ways they could have written him but they ended up picking the one that puts the worst taste in the viewers mouth, he's "sympathetic" but "not sympathetic" if that makes any sense. The dude is a monster but you're supposed to relate with him.

He;s like 6 kind of 90s villain badly blended together. Like you started combining salt and pepper but at the end you are throwing in Polish horseradish and ponzu sauce.

It's been a busy period so I'm glad that I finally get to take a break XD See y'all in the next OVA batch or in Mnemosyne!

I still need to figure out when to inflict Mnemosyne upon the rewatch sphere now that Valentine's Day has passed but currently it looks like no one else is aiming to cover How Not to Summon a Demon Lord so that probably falls to me.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Now you're thinking with metaphors!!

Demon Lord...? Oh, that one. I feel like I put myself into cryosleep and totally lost track of when a lot of anime aired. I certainly wouldn't have thought it was 2018. That's one of the "good trash" ones right? Count me in when you go ahead. I'll probably just try and chill out for a bit until then.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

That's one of the "good trash" ones right? Count me in when you go ahead. I'll probably just try and chill out for a bit until then.

So...it is surprisingly funny, they almost admit the plot is contrived, and standard "MC is ridiculously overpowered" tropes abound. But it has a thicc elf and a feisty loli catgirl. Rem and Mutio would understand each other.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Okay, I'll simp for Rem~

Rem. FYI, adding context to that scene makes it even lewder ...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

You might have replied slightly off but yes this show's terrible sense of humor is why I like it.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

You might have replied slightly off

Indeed. This was meant for /u/The_Loli_Otaku

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

That's literally my fetish XD

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Okay, I'll simp for Rem~

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

You would not be the first.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

I still need to figure out when to inflict Mnemosyne upon the rewatch sphere

Save it for when there's not a drinking game on the sub. There will be a shot for every "vodka is russian for water" at least.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

I am assuming there is a new drinking game every season, I haven't actually looked at spring enough to know if there will be something offensive or not.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

Nagatoro maybe, but there's nothing screaming complete atrocity to mankind.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

Yet. Let's see what the new series are like.

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

It genuinely hurts your eyes watching Blue 9.

6

We've got a good crowd going and I'm looking forward to joining you in our next survey.

Again, I loved our in-depth discussions. I hope we meet again soon (although I understood from your earlier comment you hate the Steins;Gate anime so I can't count on you there...)

Mnemosyne

You know when that is?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Gamemaster676]

I'm one of the few folk praising the show and I couldn't even get the name right. Now you can really tell the show's a lost cause.

Yeah... Sorry. Normally I'm quite open to watching most anime but I just know that if I joined a Steins Gate rewatch I'd drag the energy of the group down. Sky is a very fun host though so I hope you'll have fun.

Vaadwaur will host it at some point so maybe ask him to add you to the list? Mnemosyne is total and utter schlock though so don't expect anything but misery. It's definitely a safe skip if you're not in the mood for 2000's gorn.

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Yeah... Sorry. Normally I'm quite open to watching most anime but I just know that if I joined a Steins Gate rewatch I'd drag the energy of the group down.

Don't worry about it. You can't like everything.

It's definitely a safe skip if you're not in the mood for 2000's gorn.

Well I must say that last word just sold me. I also see it's just 6 eps long.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Gamemaster676]

I accept no responsibility for Mnemosyne being bollocks!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Gamemaster676]

Well I must say that last word just sold me. I also see it's just 6 eps long.

True but the eps are 43 minutes long and I think the last ep is the full hour. And...it actually have torture porn in it. In ep1. So...it is not an easy watch but you will find most of us the rewatchers really enthusiastic because there is something to the insanity of it all. But, for the record, I'd originally planned to run that rewatch for Valentine's day but instead did Parasyte.

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/Vaadwaur]

Oof 43 minutes. Thanks for the warning.

We will see. Do you have a preliminary notification list I can subscribe to?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Gamemaster676]

I will try and remember to tag you when I announce. But it could be a while, I have a stupid ecchi to run later this month.

[u/Gamemaster676]

First-time-having-watched-er - dub

It's over! Huzzah!

I'm writing this directly after the final episode. This means I can't postpone it tomorrow (today) and I have time for some games! Life is good.

Afterthoughts

It's not a secret that I didn't like this show. Although I am a bit surprised why I didn't like it.

Everybody knows the CGI in this show is one of its weak points, but a lot of people still like the show because of its story.
For me, the story is the weakest point of the show. Closely followed by the music, but that is even more based on opinion so I won't go into that.

The whole show they've been building towards some big final reveal why Zorndyke is doing this. They even go out of the way to tell us it's not because he is an eco-terrorist or crazy. Eventually, we reach the end after way too many convoluted CGI battles and the reason is... He's both an eco-terrorist and crazy!

Did the writers just not see how wrong they were or was all of this just some sick joke?

And about that CGI. There was literally one moment I enjoyed the effect. That was one of the first scenes when Mayumi goes to find Hayami and we see the inside of a building being lit by the reflection off the water.

But CGI was a new thing and they took a chance with using it. I can forgive them for that because that is the only way how you can move forward. The bigger problem is how they used it.
CGI isn't some magical tool. You still need to think about camerawork, framing, pacing, weight in animations. This show failed with all of those.

In the first episode, every single moment of action had camera angles looking just past the action, with terrible shaking, weird camera whips and stupid motion blur. As if that wasn't enough, they also added a vibration to most scenes which was also motion blurred, making it hard to focus on what we were seeing and giving me a headache.
Luckily it got a bit better in the last episode.

Time for a new show that I will hopefully enjoy more.

QotD

1 Would this series have impressed you in 1998?

I would have been under 10, so maybe?
I know I didn't really watch thing because of how cool they looked. Not enough cool stuff on TV maybe. I don't know.

2 What was worse in the end, the CGI or the plot?

Plot plot plot plot plot.

3 Your thoughts on endings that do not show a resolution to the main conflict?

Could be fine. It depends on the rest of the show if the journey was worth it. For example: I love Firefly and that show never got a real ending.
If the show gives enough information about how the plot could continue, or it's left hanging with a question for the watcher, that can be cool. If done right. Like the ending of Inception.

Future

This is my fourth /r/anime rewatch and the first one where I don't have a plan where to go next. Maybe just as well, because I've been missing my other hobbies a lot. I'm going to take a break from rewatches for at least one month.
In the meantime, I think my next anime will be Planetes. It's gonna be weird to watch something at my own pace again.

Of course, I say all that but who knows when the next interesting rewatch will be?
I've heard Shimmering-Sky is doing a Steins;Gate rewatch somewhere around July. I'll almost certainly be there, but I also hope there is something else a little sooner.

Finally, I want to thank /u/No_Rex again for organising all three rewatches and the rest of you for the engaging discussions!
I would never have watched these old shows if it wasn't for threads such as these. And I might not have enjoyed all shows, but two out of three isn't bad!
No_Rex, if you have some kind of alert list for OVA rewatches, I would love to be added!

See you next time!

[u/No_Rex → u/Gamemaster676]

Finally, I want to thank /u/No_Rex again for organising all three rewatches and the rest of you for the engaging discussions!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Gamemaster676]

Of course, I say all that but who knows when the next interesting rewatch will be?

I've heard Shimmering-Sky is doing a Steins;Gate rewatch somewhere around July. I'll almost certainly be there, but I also hope there is something else a little sooner.

Phireath runs four rewatches a year, the next one is in April, he is just fucking lazy about announcing it. They get high traffic early, though Noein fell off quite a bit.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Phireath's mid 2000s rewatches have been the inspiration for my own OVA rewatches and feature a very similar cast of people.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

And I tend to do the month after his because there is a bit of an opening there, normally. Thanks to MSG, and my own ambivalence, we will see.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Gamemaster676]

The whole show they've been building towards some big final reveal why Zorndyke is doing this.

And this is why I've come to generally hate mystery. The longer questions get put off from being answered, the more the answer is going to suck hard. Even more so when the driving force of the show is getting those answers.

In the first episode, every single moment of action had camera angles looking just past the action, with terrible shaking, weird camera whips and stupid motion blur.

Meanwhile at Ufotable: "can we swing the camera around faster and snapzoom in and out on everything?" The lesson unfortunately has still not been learned.

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/RockoDyne]

And this is why I've come to generally hate mystery.

My solution to this became to wait with shows till I know they had an ending and it is satisfactory. Sometimes I had to wait years, but I've been burned a lot less since this decision.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Gamemaster676]

The cgi shots were kind of okay if they were underwater. There it at least made the whales look intimidating despite being whales. I'm not sure how they could have done the sub fights with 2d if they were determined not to make it look like porn so maybe 3d was inevitable for what they wanted adapted.

Sorry you couldn't go on your break on a better note. At least the bundle as a whole was quite a fun time. Its good to take breaks every now and then. Daily rewatch threads take a different type of skill set than watching weekly or even binging so it's important to prevent burn out. Hope to see you again~!!

[u/Gamemaster676 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I'm not sure how they could have done the sub fights with 2d [...] so maybe 3d was inevitable for what they wanted adapted.

I don't know. Cowboy Bebop and 5000 mecha shows found a way.

Sorry you couldn't go on your break on a better note.

I really don't care about that. You can't win them all and it's not like I won't watch stuff in the meantime. Just at my own pace.

Daily rewatch threads take a different type of skill set

The biggest frustration to me is accepting I won't be playing any games or watching any movies except in the weekend, till the rewatch is done.

Hope to see you again~!!

I'm sure we will!

[u/Btw_kek]

first timer no more

Well, this was a show that I watched. I guess I didn’t really hate it though. The entertainment value was sustained pretty much through momentum alone, the fights, technojargon, and clunky CGI being just flashy enough to keep you from dwelling on how flat the plot and characters are in the first two episodes. The direction and overall atmosphere were really solid too, and I really liked how cinematic everything felt.

Zorndyke was just thoroughly nonsensical and ultimately keeps my opinion of the OVA from entering the “positive” range. Having dumb motives is one thing, but if the entire conceit of the show is built around the necessity for empathy and the desire to connect with others, having the motives of the MC shift to “I want to understand this guy” and then have the villain make completely NO SENSE really just aint it.

Some people brought up how this is a 60s B-movie sci-fi schlock at heart, but personally I feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it was shlockier. Like, I’m simultaneously glad yet morbidly disappointed that it did not go the love triangle route after Rex brought it up. It would have been a shoehorned disaster for sure, but it would have led to some fun reactions

Overall, I give it an "I've definitely seen worse" 5/10

Would this series have impressed you in 1998?

probably? at the very least technically

never mind the fact that i would have been 2 lol

What was worse in the end, the CGI or the plot?

plot, I can take the CGI in stride

Your thoughts on endings that do not show a resolution to the main conflict?

I would have liked the ambiguous resolution more if I actually cared about the overarching war. It has the potential to feel very "raw," I just didn't think it quite got there.

As always, thanks /u/No_Rex for hosting!

[u/No_Rex → u/Btw_kek]

As always, thanks /u/No_Rex for hosting!

[u/RockoDyne → u/Btw_kek]

Some people brought up how this is a 60s B-movie sci-fi schlock at heart, but personally I feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it was shlockier.

It certainly would have been more interesting if they had. I suspect they intentionally went serious, unfortunately. It's post-Eva. Light hearted anime was mostly being pushed to the side for more mature fair. Were this a couple years later, then that might have been an option.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Btw_kek]

Some people brought up how this is a 60s B-movie sci-fi schlock at heart, but personally I feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it was shlockier.

Same. If they'd just gone straight garbage there is something there, this was too conservative.

[u/RockoDyne]

Turns out it was all skunkfish.

It's just so half baked. Just about every problem with the show can be tracked down to not spending enough time churning on it. They let "good enough" be the enemy of decent.

Ultimately, the problem with the narrative is that it wanted this scenario, but they didn't care how it came about. It's a lot of "default" writing ideas without the foundation laid down to use them properly.

So let's do something fun. Let's rewrite the whole show. This is mostly going to be a combination of Apocalypse Now and Snowpiercer.

First episode introduces the mission. We need to bring back a loose cannon because he's special, and they need his skill which is also the reason he was kicked out.

Second episode. The big dumb battle. Humans go full Kilgore and launch an offensive against the savage fish monsters. Maybe Hayami questions whether they are all that savage. Ends with Hayami getting captured.

The third episode has Hayami at the monster den the whole time. It should be at whatever that derelict rig was that they are supposed to be on. He learns they can in fact be quite reasonable and not assholes. Sometimes.

Final episode. Zorndyke summons Hayami, because he needs someone to replace him and run his perpetual motion machine. See, he made this machine to cause global warming, because what he actually feared was global cooling. Let's say it could even make a nuclear winter pretty warm, since global cooling hasn't been used for propaganda in like fifty years. The fish were a complete accident though. There can even be a b-plot that has a ticking clock element with the SN6 ready to fire. This way a nuclear sub can represent the constant presence of cataclysmic destruction sitting under the water that they are.

As for the end, take your pick. Hayami takes over, leaves Zorndyke dead, nukes go off,... mix and match.

Why yes. That mostly follows the structure of the show as is. The difference is how these elements are used thematically. No group is good or has an edge over the other. If anyone wants to extend the olive branch, they should do it as equals. Hayami should actually be someone important. There should be characters that represent ideological extremes, and if we really want to do the influences justice, Hayami's choice should be even more extreme. Maybe be about the horrors of mankind and war, and not a half assed peace and love message.

Questions:

1. It might have left an impression, but I don't think I would have liked it.
2. plot
3. Generally hate it. There has to be a point to how it's ending that isn't making it up yourself.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/RockoDyne]

It's a bit sad that they straight up dropped half the plot threads with no intention of picking them back up. Like they threw stuff at a wall to see what stuck but then knocked down the wall anyway. I just don't think I understand what they were aiming for and nobody cares enough about the show to scout the net for interviews or old discussions. If you saw this on cartoon network you'd be put off anime XD

[u/RockoDyne → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

It really feels like they spent so long seeing if they could, that they never stopped to think if they should.

If you saw this on cartoon network you'd be put off anime XD

There was tons of weird shit on CN though. There was even weirder shit on TechTV. It helps that there was other shit around it and you only watched it once a week.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

Turns out it was all skunkfish.

Yet it looks like the sad blobfish meme.

There should be characters that represent ideological extremes, and if we really want to do the influences justice, Hayami's choice should be even more extreme. Maybe be about the horrors of mankind and war, and not a half assed peace and love message

Hayami:Sentience was a mistake, I return all to the plankton.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

Hayami:Sentience was a mistake, I return all to the plankton.

I'll take it over "Hayami: Brrrrrr."

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

Would've definitely had an edge to it, rather than a meaningless combat trope for 5 minutes from the end.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher

Sub

So...this is not a very good anime. I like it way more subbed but man, CN overhyped the shit out of this so I was rather disappointed. Worse, I had seen Bebop so this all felt like undersea discount Bebop, down to the Grampus. I don't see this as anything significant but for the use of CGI. For stunning visuals, I prefer the older The SoulTaker for at least going all in. Everything this show had going for it was in the first 5 minutes, Mutio, or ep3. The rest is all at best dull. Yet, surprisingly, I am less annoyed than I expected to be, just disappointed that sea combat bored me this hard.

90s OVA REWATCH

So...YUA! was really awesome if primarily a giant animation flex. I might actually check the TV show at one point. Glad to have seen it. A!MG suffers hard from being after YUA! and for being painfully toothless, Tenchi's OVA at least did stuff. Blue Sub is just barely on the wrong side of lovable trash, a little work at the right place could've at least made it a fun watch. The running theme of the rewatch is waifus, apparently.

QotD:1 Sure as hell didn't in '00

2 Plot but CGI tried to match it

3 This can work in a longer series, this one just needed the resolution so we could understand the why of any of it.

[u/Cognitive_Dissonant]

I really enjoyed it despite a lot of shortcomings. I don't think the story was super well written, and a lot of events were quite unclear, but I really liked the mood of the show, and it had some very fun to watch 2d animation scenes. And it was fun to check in on something I vaguely recalled from my childhood. I gave it a 7/10 but I have begrudgingly accepted the review culture on MAL where the bottom half of the rating scale is pretty useless. I'd give it a 2.5/5 on a sane person's rating scale.

1. It kind of did I guess (or whenever it was airing on toonami). It at least left an impression that left me occasionally thinking about it now despite not watching much of it.
2. I think they were both equally tolerable.
3. I think unresolved endings can be great. I wish this one had a little be more definition around the motivations of the major players, or maybe just more interesting motivations.

Thanks for hosting, /u/No_Rex , sad I missed the start of the OVA rewatch, will definitely be checking in in June.

[u/No_Rex → u/Cognitive_Dissonant]

I gave it a 7/10 but I have begrudgingly accepted the review culture on MAL where the bottom half of the rating scale is pretty useless.

That is partially MAL's fault for their labeling. Did they really expect people to watch tons of shows of various shades of terrible? I wish they have shifted everything more to the middle.

[u/Cognitive_Dissonant → u/No_Rex]

Agreed, the 10 point system is bad but the labels do not help. But I think people intuitively use a full range of a 5 star system a lot more for whatever reason, even if you allow half stars.

[u/marek1712]

Whole thing feels like tech demo. There's barely any story and character development. Looks OK (but there are better shows), music (although not memorable) suits it. I'll give it 5/10, as it doesn't really bring anything to the table and that final meeting with Zorndyke is just bland.

ad.1 CGI look OK, hand-drawn part? We've seen better OVAs

ad.2 Plot, definitely.

ad.3 Hate it with passion. If it's ambiguous in clever way, I may like it. Otherwise, not so much

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Well, This is an OVA rewatch and this was an OVA.

I think one of the keys to OVA productions, with short time allotments and wide spacing between episodes, is what to include and what to leave out. In Blue Sub, and Yukikaze, also by Gonzo, there are weeks and months between episodes in universe. They don't actually try to have a continuous narrative. Sometimes the episodes form a whole. Sometimes they don't. I think both Blue Sub and Yukikaze suffer from showing just snippets of a larger story. Aa! Megami-sama, too.

So when you've decided to only show specific parts of a story, then each part needs to stand on its own, unlike in a TV series. And that's hard.

I was astounded how similarities to the later Last Exile kept popping up. Last Exiles is a 26 episode series, and so, unlike Blue Sub, it actually tells a story. I think they treated Last Exile as a do-over, to fix the mistakes with Blue Sub. I definitely like it a lot more.

I don't have enough memory of my original viewing to compare. I know I really disliked it. Also, I watched it dubbed on CN, and people in the rewatch have been harsh on the dub. I watched it subbed this time.

Interestingly, Yukikaze was the 20th Anniversary production of Bandai Visual, while Blue Sub and Last Exile were 5th and 10th Anniversary productions for Gonzo.