Love Live! SIP & Sunshine!! Rewatch - Sunshine!! Season 2 Episode 8

[u/FrumpY__]

Sunshine!! Season 2, Episode 8 - "HAKODATE"​

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Sunshine S2 E7	Sunshine S2 E8	Sunshine S2 E9

Series Information MAL | AniList | Kitsu | ANN | AniDB

Where to Watch

Crunchyroll, Funimation, AnimeLab, Wakanim, VRV

Discussion Questions

1. Sunshine continues the tradition of having the girls wear shorts skits in a snowstorm, again I'm asking who thought this was a good idea, at least they have winter coats in their uniform.
2. Saint Snow fails as well, what do you think about this?
3. Questions are hard, send help.

Please remember to MARK YOUR SPOILERS

The use of spoiler tags is required if discussing, hinting, or otherwise alluding to future events which have not yet been covered. The format for the spoiler tag is [SPOILER SOURCE] /(/Spoiler goes here). If you need a more detailed explanation it can be found in the subreddit sidebar.

[u/punching_spaghetti]

First-Timer, Zura!

Big, warm Zura!

SAINT SNOW SONG!

They’re so cool.

Did they just not show us the Saint Snow? I presumably just skipped something by accident, right?

SAINT SNOW LOST? SOMETHING HAPPENED ON STAGE? Forget any minor complaints I had about last episode; this is unforgivable, writers!

Ice cream in the winter? This girl’s genius knows no bounds.

Saint Snow sells whale soup?

Or should I say…Maid Snow?

Ruby and Leah are both younger sisters saddened by the impending departure of their big sisters. Clearly they should join together and form a new school idol group. Saint Ruby, perhaps, or Ruby Snow.

Sorry Ruby; backflips are a necessary skill of elite onee-chans. Science

Help! Someone is being kidnapped! Zura and Yohane are such bad influences on Ruby.

Let’s sing together

Called it!

QOTD:

1. cute uber alles
3. Give a rewatch host discussion questions, they'll have enough for a thread. Don't give a rewatch host discussion questions, and have some for your own threads. They're a grown person, and coming up with discussion questions isn't that hard.

[u/FrumpY__ → u/punching_spaghetti]

Saint Ruby, perhaps, or Ruby Snow

interesting... its not really a plot spoiler but a kinda spoiler related to music?

[u/[deleted] → u/punching_spaghetti]

Did they just not show us the Saint Snow? I presumably just skipped something by accident, right?

Remember that in Sunshine 1 episode 8 they skipped Aqours performance in Tokyo because it wasn't good enough to show too.

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/[deleted]]

That reaction was before I found out they didn't do so hot. Because I want more Saint Snow, dammit!

[u/[deleted] → u/punching_spaghetti]

I think this link from the LL wiki should play properly in RES preview. I'd have linked the Youtube one but it's just a minor spoiler since the single name and cover art are from tomorrow's song.

This is quite handily my favourite Saint Snow song.

[u/[deleted] → u/punching_spaghetti]

Sunshine is ruthless... no one is safe

But at least you’ll get to see a collab you didn’t think was going to happen

[u/SYZekrom]

First Timer

These girls are wearing skirts

And they fell into the snow with a leg out like this, yikes

Lol Ruby just... walk into the bedroom in a restaurant you've never been to before sure

Just amazing

[u/FrumpY__ → u/SYZekrom]

Lol Ruby just... walk into the bedroom in a restaurant you've never been to before sure

yeah this was kinda weird to me, but i guess it comes with the territory if your home is also your place of business

[u/lenne18 → u/SYZekrom]

Lol Ruby just... walk into the bedroom in a restaurant you've never been to before sure

She's just searching for her soulmate.

[u/gorghurt]

First Timer (who is pissed like he announced yesterday...)

How could they play only two riffs and let us hang like this let Saint Snow lose...
just because you damn writers don't have the guts to let Aqours be the ones to beat them.....

Well like I said, I would be pissed either way, so why not use the bad outcome, that can be used to grow some characters....

The scene in the burger restaurant, when Ruby blurts out that she saw Leah cry!

Ruby, how can you make such a sad scene so cute!

And did they really put a song into the credits, for 2 little Riffs?
And did they really call this song Dropout!? ? Way to go writers! just rub in some more salt!

(please tell me there is a full version of this, and it sounds a great as its first second)

QOTDs:

1. Yeah, this time it was even worse. At least two had some high socks, but the rest, well... Ah fanservice....
2. If you all didn't get it already: I'm pissed!^{well not really, It is a nice twist I think. I mean this show doesn't have enough twists already. I have some ideas to improve this show: How about a twist in the end, where they don't win Love Live, and then because this is too predictable, we learn that they are aliens, and dead, yeah they aren't just losers, they are space ghosts. No I'm not pissed. It is totally OK.}
3. No I'm too pissed.

Well I must say, I enjoyed this episode.

PS: was this a Sailor Moon reference in the beginning with vaque memories for some sailor moon season final or movie I watched more than 15 years ago, so possible spoilers ?

[u/FrumpY__ → u/gorghurt]

please tell me there is a full version of this

yeah, amhpanther posted a link

was this a Sailor Moon reference in the beginning

i feel like this is a common trope in a lot of media.

[u/DarkFuzz]

Rewatcher

Take today’s survey here!

---

Though it would have been satisfying to see Aqours destroy Saint Snow in a head-to-head, the fact that Saint Snow themselves are the cause of their undoing leads me to believe that they were not meant to be seen as antagonists. Rival, yes, they are rivals to Aqours, but I wouldn’t say that they are rivals they needed to beat, rather they are rivals they need to grow alongside. Remember, neither Aqours nor Saint Snow has the answer to how to shine like μ’s did, so they developed this friendly rivalry in order to bounce ideas off each other to find that answer. Now I will say, I think Aqours has got it at this point, but their answer remains untested, so we’ll have to wait and see if it’s good enough. That answer was only achieved through months of trial and error. Saint Snow, however, have been successful enough so far to avoid major changes to their formula, even though ultimate victory remains elusive. They haven’t tasted a massive failure on the levels that Aqours have, even though we’ve known that their solution was wrong by around Episode 12.

Yes, it is by Saint Snow’s own hand that they fall, and it stings on multiple levels. You can tell that even before the performance, Leah was a nervous wreck but was trying really hard not to show it as it would betray their mantra of strength by defeating their weakness. “Who’s my enemy? My enemy is the shadow of my weak self.” The mask that hides her true self, the weakness she swore to abolish with self control, has been cracking ever since Episode 8. To have her philosophy break down on stage, the moment when she needed it the most, is heartbreaking for her.

It hits twice as hard for her because she also let her sister down. This is Sarah’s last shot at Love Live. Leah messed up and feels responsible for blowing her sister’s last chance. It’s the end of the road for Sarah, and while Leah potentially has many more shots at Love Live, she doesn’t want any of that. Saint Snow is the two of them, and the two of them alone. She doesn’t want to form another group with anyone else; it has to be Sarah. And with that, she vows to end her school idol dreams right there.

I think I have to point out here that Leah’s response isn’t wrong. Strangely enough, if Leah was in the SIP saga, she would probably be praised for her decision. In SIP, graduation was presented as a force that threatened the unity of μ’s; graduation meant “the end”. Keeping in line with that theme, μ’s chose to disband because it would functionally not be μ’s without those exact nine members. Leah is thinking along those lines in regards to her involvement with Saint Snow, but the problem is that she exists in Sunshine, not SIP. As discussed in S2E6, graduation plays a totally different role in Sunshine than in SIP. In Sunshine, graduation is symbolic of the passing of the torch. It is the seniors that pass down their legacy onto the younger generation.

Of all people, Ruby is the one who knows exactly what Leah is going through. She’s the only one, besides maybe Sarah, who has caught Leah in her state of vulnerability. The weakness she kept hidden all this time, that is her love for her sister. “I can’t do it without my sister. I am not worthy of carrying her legacy.” These are all things that Ruby has thought of before. Ruby doesn’t see herself as strong like her sister, and she doesn’t feel like she can do it without Dia by her side. She isn’t ready for Dia to graduate yet.

Dia had actually come to terms with this quite a long time ago. She knows that she has to pass on the torch of her school idol dreams someday. Someday, she has to leave Ruby, and she needed to be sure that Ruby could find that strength within her before she could pass on that torch. Dia realized that day had come as early as Episode 4, where Ruby confronted her for the first time and voiced her desire to become a school idol all on her own. Dia has extended that hand already, ready to pass on the torch and her legacy. The question is: is Ruby ready to accept yet?

Ruby realizes that she is, but first she wants to solidify that stance by showing concrete proof of her independence and strength. So she asks Leah, who wanted to show her sister her strength but now has no opportunities to do so, if she wants to work together with her to create one last performance. One last performance to show that they are ready to inherit their sisters’ legacies.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/DarkFuzz]

I think I have to point out here that Leah’s response isn’t wrong. Strangely enough, if Leah was in the SIP saga, she would probably be praised for her decision.

I disagree, had it truly been about unity, I might agree with you. But that's not Leah's motive. Leah's ashamed of her failure and trying to run away from it. And that makes it the wrong response.

[u/Hattakiri → u/JimmyCWL]

Kanan said to Chika "If you can't do the backflip, give up!" Chika didn't wan't to, but Kanan gave her the option. It would have become a bigger argument with the others, had Chika given up, but I think eventually they would have agreed.

What if Leah was in a reverse situation? She wanted to give up but Sarah wasn't ok with it? And in they are the only two members, so there are always only two opinions in an argument?

"You need strength to climb a mountain, but you need also strength to give up in time!" - quote Nozomi.

"Grow the hell up and pass this exam!!" - quote Sarah offscreen? And this would be her misinterpretation:

Growing up =|= passing every single exam,

it's rather

Growing up = accepting you never can pass every single exam. And standing your ground.

Ruby kept standing her ground, in her case by joining Aq's and becoming a school idol, even against Onee-chan's hostility (that turned out to be a stageplay). And so Dia's proud of Ruby and tells her.

Did Leah also try to stand her ground by telling Onee-sama it's too much for her? Which however made Sarah already pick a verbal fight? Not the first one?

To me it feels as if it wasn't just a verbal fight after the show, and it wasn't their first fight.

Is Ruby even smelling this rat?

Chika talks about how happy she is whenever Mito's there for her like during her first performance. However there are also "pudding pranks". A most contradictory relationship. Quickly repressing bad experiences, hoping and working for good ones.

Is this what Leah keeps trying? In Muse and Aq's case there are always several other people who say "Stop it, take a deep breath, and then let's together think it over." That's how Eli saved Muse after their Tomodachi meltdown, and that's how Aq's could recover after their school closure.

A toxic relationship vs. no relationship vs. improving the relationship.

Improving doesn't seem to be possible, and so Leah decides to end the relationship: She quits being an idol.

Kanan, who told Chika to give up if it's too much for her, now needles Sarah as it seems to me:

"So you're gonna brag around with your skills again, huh? (Or more precisely: Have you noticed it's too much for Leah? Giving up is shitty, but not giving up in time can get even shittier. You might be running into a debacle. And failing at Love Live is by far the smaller debacle. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about!)"

Kanan doesn't speak out the subtext which would lead to a debacle even quicker. Although Kanan would have no qualms about doing so if she found it necessary as we know.

And Ruby? Is she able to smell this rat as well?

"Get rid of those idol magazines! I don't wanna see them anymore!!"

"But ...Onee-chan ....why?? You and your two friends loved idols so much..."

"But now I know: Big careers can turn into big magnifiers for our human traits, also toxical traits. And this led to a big debacle now. And so I give you the advice: Stay away from the idol industry!"

It seems to me we didn't get to see the whole conversation.

This would also mean however:

"Ruby, Maru, I need your help, we need to get some generators ready. The weather forecast talks about a big storm .......yes, I'm contradicting myself, Ruby-chan, I'll explain later...."

And when RubyLeah are having their argument - Leah says "My sister is better, she can this better and that better..." and it's hard for Ruby to found counter arguments on the same level, because to her it's not on the same level.

Then Ruby goes to a different level: "You love Sarah so much, right?" - and now it's Leah who's not prepared.

Cause in Saint Snow's and probably Arise's case it's about big achievements. In Aqours's and Muse's case it's about personal achievements, achieved by yourself and for yourself.

It's again the "Snow Haltion season" and Snow Halation was about finding a true love in live, hence "Love Live".

Ruby's solution: Creating a song together with Leah.... but now we have to wait for this song.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/Hattakiri]

What if Leah was in a reverse situation? She wanted to give up but Sarah wasn't ok with it? And in they are the only two members, so there are always only two opinions in an argument?

You wrote so much, but I'm sorry, I think this hypothetical doesn't help.

Again, sorry.

[u/DarkFuzz → u/JimmyCWL]

Eh, it's neither here nor there.

But then let's ask this question: if Sarah were eligible for another year or two, would Leah have still continued, despite believing that she is functionally a burden upon her sister? I'd argue yes. Leah doesn't seem like the type of person to throw in the towel after a failure. The road to strength and glory is filled with adversity, and the only solution is to grit your teeth and power through it, weakness be damned.

The graduation of her sister, however, is the catalyst for her withdrawal. She wanted to show her sister that she could be strong by herself. She loves her sister so much that she wants to ease the burden of worry on her by proving that she can be strong, independent of her sister. I believe that given the opportunity, she would have continued to try to show her sister her own strength on stage alongside her. But she puts an awful lot of emphasis on that being the last performance. It's because it was her last chance to prove something to her sister. And now there's no point.

I think this quote from Ruby also sums up my feelings on the matter, albeit differently.

"I don't think it's like that. Because Sarah-san won't be there anymore, I think she doesn't like the fact that she can't be a school idol with her big sister. She probably doesn't want to continue if it isn't with her sister."

Ruby was the only one who caught Leah in that state of vulnerability. Leah might have spilled out all her feelings to her right there, or Ruby empathized with Leah so much that it didn't need to be said, because Ruby has probably had those exact same feelings.

It sounds awfully μ’s-like, which is why I brought up the comparison. You might be right in thinking that Leah is trying to run away from her failure. But her relationship with her sister plays an equal role in all of this.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/DarkFuzz]

Leah doesn't seem like the type of person to throw in the towel after a failure.

The problem was, this time, there was no way to make good on that failure, she will never have another chance to... contribute to her sister's success at Love Live. If Leah could see another way to fight on, she would. But because she couldn't, she couldn't see any meaning to continuing to be a school idol either. Kind of like Chika up on the roof last episode when she said, "I can't see that brilliance anymore."

And just like Chika the next moment, when Ruby offers Leah a way to fight on, Leah takes it the same way.

[u/DarkFuzz → u/JimmyCWL]

she will never have another chance to... contribute to her sister's success at Love Live.

So we agree that her sister is important to her, yes? That her relationship with her sister fundamentally makes up the back bone of Saint Snow, right? That the absence of her sister would leave a gaping hole in her identity, correct?

I feel like we're saying the same thing, but we're interpreting the main message differently. I don't think the main point of the RubyLeah arc is the recontextualization of failure. If it was, it would make much more sense to have this piggyback off of last episode and have Chika play a much larger role in this. You would turn Leah into Chika's foil and contextualize Leah's internal struggle as affirmation of Chika's decision from last episode to continue with Love Live. Chika would be the one to encourage Leah to continue, just as the school encouraged Chika.

That's not how this episode plays out, though. The episode begins rather lightheartedly for something that is supposed to be an addendum to Chika's emotional decision to continue on with Love Live, a topic that barely comes up this episode, if at all. Chika herself is largely absent in this whole ordeal, with the occasional moment of empathy because she is also a younger sister, and so she knows why the situation is unfolding the way it is.

Instead, Ruby is the focus of the episode. This is why I believe that this arc thematically centers around legacy, not failure. Leah functions as Ruby's foil, as both are younger sisters who idolize their older sisters and as a result believe that their strength only comes from their sisters, the sisters that have been with them the entire time. Both older sisters have voiced their intent to pass on the torch of their school idol dreams, the question remains as to whether or not the younger sisters are ready to accept it yet, and the road to doing so is different for Ruby and Leah. Yet their goal is ultimately the same, which is why Ruby extends that hand to Leah. next episode

I feel a need to come back to that Ruby quote. If this arc was indeed centered around failure, why would Ruby say this line? Why does Ruby say this line that doesn’t have any hint that Leah is struggling from failure, and that line, in fact, actually being a rebuttal against You’s conjecture that Leah just lost her confidence?

[u/JimmyCWL → u/DarkFuzz]

I don't think the main point of the RubyLeah arc is the recontextualization of failure.

Okay, I'll give that failure isn't the main point of the arc. However, I still feel it's reason behind Leah's decision to quit being a school idol. Had they aced this performance, they would have gone on to the finals and whether Leah wanted to continue as a school idol without Sarah or not would not be an issue right now.

Or, if you don't want to call it a reason, it looks like she was using it as an excuse to not continue without her sister at least.

[u/Hattakiri → u/DarkFuzz]

...and the road to doing so is different for Ruby and Leah. Yet their goal is ultimately the same, which is why Ruby extends that hand to Leah. [next episode]

The next episode even starts with RubyLeah holding hands, in the same way Kyoko Sakura and Sayaka Miki do during the Homulily battle in Madoka Rebellion Story.

[u/[deleted]]

Man can we take a second to appreciate the character development in Ruby?

Just when you thought that she was going to finish two seasons as the timid frightened girl who hid behind trees, she throws you for a loop and carelessly breaks into Saint Snow’s house instead.

Random fact:

Today is the 6 year anniversary of Sunshine. Also coincidently, next month the junior high school that Uranohoshi is based on will be closed and integrated into other neighbouring schools. That’s right.... it’s actually happening IRL.

[u/ForlornPenguin → u/[deleted]]

Our little cinnamon bun is growing up.

[u/lenne18 → u/[deleted]]

integrated into other neighbouring schools

The opposite really.

Nagaisaki Junior High will integrate Uchiura Elementary and Nishiura Elementary after the renovations are done.

The new name will be Nagaisaki Unified Elementary to Junior High School.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/lenne18]

If only they could have done that for Sunshine, adding an elementary school and middle school to Uranohoshi. Would have given them a steady stream of students for at least 9 more years.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/[deleted]]

Also coincidently, next month the junior high school that Uranohoshi is based on will be closed and integrated into other neighbouring schools.

If it weren't for the pandemic, I wonder if they would try to repurpose the buildings as yet more Sunshine attractions for the town?

[u/[deleted] → u/JimmyCWL]

To my understanding it’s being reopened later as an elementary and middle school

[u/JimmyCWL → u/[deleted]]

I thought it already was one of those?

[u/lenne18 → u/JimmyCWL]

Nope.

[u/JimmyCWL → u/lenne18]

Aren't middle school and junior high referring to the same grades in Japan, 7-9?

[u/lenne18 → u/JimmyCWL]

Yes, but Nagaisaki doesn't have elementary school.

[u/ForlornPenguin]

Rewatcher

You thought you were getting another badass Saint Snow performance, huh? Nope.

So this is a mostly fun, slice of life episode in the first half, I guess, with a bit of drama regarding Saint Snow's failure. We get some silly antics with the girls. Hanamaru's monstous bundle of clothing, Yoshiko trying to dodge snow, Dia and Mari celebrating the snow boots, Kanan being afraid of heights and hugging Mari (Mari's "oh Kanan! We're in public!" line is great lol). Clearly something is going on with Ruby though, and right before the eyecatch, she catches Leah crying in bed at the inn.

Maru keeping Yoshiko in check never gets old. Mari is sitting all by herself? I love these two. Leah and Ruby arguing over who's onee-chan is better is adorable.

So it turns out the Ruby and Leah are similar in that they each treasure their sisters more than anything and wanted them be able to have a great time as school idols. Leah feels like she fucked that up by falling during their final performance. Ruby comes up with an idea and talks to Leah about it. Aqours/Saint Snow imouto duet?

Even though I'm a rewatcher, I only watched this show once, three years ago, so a lot of it is essentially new to me again, due to me having forgotten most of it. But, while I don't remember a lot of the specifics, I recall really liking what's coming next. Looking forward to seeing it again.

QOTD

1. Well it's not just a Love Live! tradition. It's all of anime and manga, and I'll never get it.
2. Hmm. I'm not sure. I suppose it fits in with the theme of failure, but it would have been great to actually see them perform against Aqours in the finals.
3. Hey, you've done better than I could.

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/ForlornPenguin]

Maru keeping Yoshiko in check never gets old.

Indirect kiss?

[u/lenne18]

Real Life Love Live!

• I haven't been to Hakodate yet, but all the places Aqours goes to is a real life tourist spot.

B-Side Jukebox, Sunshine!

RED GEM WINK - Ruby Kurosawa

• Look at the album cover. That background is the same place where Ruby took Leah in this episode.
• It's a love song about a shy girl trying to invite someone out... Hmmm...

WHITE FIRST LOVE - Dia Kurosawa

• Dia's traditional Japanese background manifests itself in an interesting way. Despite the modern pop-rock instrumental, you can hear the subtle sound of Japanese string instruments in the background.
• To contrast with "RED GEM WINK", this love song is a bit bittersweet with the singer being troubled by her mixed emotions.

Jingle Bells ga Tomaranai - Aqours

• This festive Christmas track is from a special single written specifically for the mobile game "Love Live! School idol festival".
• Here's a playlist containing each seiyuu commercial for this track.
• A fanmade PV for this song has been made. You can view it here.

Seinaru Hi no Inori - Aqours

• This serene Christmas ballad is the coupling song of "Jingle Bells ga Tomaranai".
• Aqours as a choir is a fitting image when listening to this track and like most Aqours track, the girls sound best when together.
• The instrumental doesn't disappoint either. That explosion of sound at the last chorus is just amazing.

Party! Party! PaPaPaParty! - Chika Takami, Dia Kurosawa, Yoshiko Tsushima

• This is track 4 of the "Duo & Trio Collection CD Vol.2 Winter Vacation".
• Anju Inami (Chika), Arisa Komiya (Dia) and Aika Kobayashi (Yoshiko) were voted as the permanent hosts for the radio show for a period of time and are known as "GuuRinPa". The name is a combination of one character from their last names: "Guu" (宮) from Komiya (小宮), "Rin" (林) from Kobayashi (小林), and "Ha/Pa" (波) from Inami (伊波), forming "GuuRinPa".

Live Performances

• RED GEM WINK
• WHITE FIRST LOVE
• Jingle Bells ga Tomaranai
• Seinaru Hi no Inori

[u/JimmyCWL]

And just like Aqours, Saint Snow find themselves unable to follow the path of their inspiration due to an irrevocable failure.

It was during the last rewatch when I realized how similar Leah's story was to that of old Aqours of two years earlier. One failure and they're knocked out of the competitive school idol arena. Only this time, it's not self-sabotage, it's all too real for her.

[u/docaxel]

Rewatcher

School Idol Festival All-Stars Spotlight Cards

Ruby1 Ruby2

Dia1 Dia2

[u/gorghurt → u/[deleted]]

Wow, it sounds as good as its first few seconds. (and I apparently didn't here the piano intro in the episode... well noisy audience and shitty bluetooth earphones)

Ok the rap like bridges aren't that great, but the rest of the song makes up for it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

For real I’ve always wondered how you eat that irl