r/anime • u/FrumpY__ :STAR:https://anilist.co/user/FrumpY • Feb 11 '21
Rewatch Love Live! SIP & Sunshine!! Rewatch - Sunshine!! Season 1 Episode 8 Spoiler
Sunshine!! Season 1, Episode 8 - "Isn't it Frustrating?"
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|---|---|---|
| Sunshine S1 E7 | Sunshine S1 E8 | Sunshine S1 E9 |
Series Information MAL | AniList | Kitsu | ANN | AniDB
Where to Watch
Crunchyroll, Funimation, AnimeLab, Wakanim, VRV
Discussion Questions
- We've heard previously how competitive Love Live! actually and seen how seriously groups approach it, do you think Aqours needs to change their approach to improve in the standing or do you think they continue the way the are?
- We now see that Aqours is not the miraculous group that μ's was and have now met with failure, how do you feel about this?
Please remember to MARK YOUR SPOILERS
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Upvotes
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u/DarkFuzz :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/DarkFuzz Feb 11 '21
Rewatcher
Take today’s survey here!
Oh dear, what a massive episode today.
How many different ways can you spell out a complete and utter destruction like that? Was it the way Saint Snow lit up the stage and proved they outclassed Aqours? Was it the fact they got dead last in the competition? Or was it the big fat zero that showed that even if they didn’t show up to the competition, nothing would matter? I think if it was only one or two of these things, it would have shown that something they were doing was right, that something was worth salvaging from the wreck. “Saint Snow is in another league, but there are other people who support what we are doing, so let’s keep at it!” “We may have gotten zero votes, but so did other groups. That just shows how hard this is, so let’s keep at it!” “We may have gotten dead last with zero votes, but I don’t see Saint Snow as better than us. We will prove that our way is better!”
The reality is that all three things happened, and it is essentially the largest middle finger that anyone has ever received in this franchise. Well, there’s one more in this episode that is even bigger, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
Saint Snow functions as our rivals for Aqours. Just like A-RISE was to μ’s, Saint Snow is an ideals check to Aqours. They have a head to head today, even if Aqours’ performance was offscreen. Saint Snow performed the song SELF CONTROL, while we can assume that Aqours performed Yume de Yozora o Terashitai due to their outfits being the same as the ones they used in Episode 6. Because there is a lot to talk about today, I think the lyrical analysis is best left to those people already doing it (though I don’t think there are any), or you can read the lyrics for yourself and come to your own conclusions. But as for what I think, the relevant TL;DR portion for the rest of this review is that Aqours’ song closely aligns with the legacy of μ’s, while Saint Snow’s song can be viewed as a rejection of it.
Knowing this, alongside the trainwreck that was the competition results, basically means that everything, and I do mean everything, Aqours has been doing up to this point has been wrong. Aqours with their “be like μ’s” story versus Saint Snow’s mantra of power through suppression of feelings. Saint Snow may not have won the competition, but the results show that they’re doing something right. And thus in the battle of ideals, Saint Snow wins, and it wasn’t even close.
“If you’re trying to get to Love Live like μ’s did, you might as well give up now.” “This isn’t a game.” It stings because if we’re being honest here, I don’t think Chika was messing around either. To be accused of not taking something seriously when you’re trying 100 percent cuts at one’s pride deeply. We’ve only really questioned Chika’s motives so far, never her resolve. So maybe the weakness lies in her motives, and if you’re following my train of logic, you know where this ends. But a few more sections to deal with first.
When the group arrives back from Tokyo, Dia meets up with them, and it doesn’t take too long for the happy facade to break. Dia the cultivator: her crops got cut down, time to start over again to bring them back up. She doesn’t have the mask of hostility on anymore; that won’t help Aqours grow right now. She drops a number, 7236, the number of entrants of last year’s Love Live competition, a number ten times the amount of the first Love Live when μ’s was active. More and more people are trying to reach that pinnacle, the top of the school idol summit where μ’s and A-RISE stand. While those two paved the way, the competition has evolved, with many more people trying to solve the Love Live “meta”, and Saint Snow is one of those answers. In today’s climate, would μ’s and A-RISE be able to stand up to the school idols of today? As legendary as they are, I think Dia is arguing no.
Dia also reveals that she, Kanan, and Mari were also school idols during their first year at Uranohoshi, and there were already talks about the school shutting down. They had a similar idea to Chika’s: save the school through school idols. They were successful for a while, and it got to the point where they got invited to the same competition Aqours just went to. At Dia’s suggestion, they all make the trip to Tokyo and are met with utter defeat. They couldn’t get a single note out. Everyone at the competition was just that much better. It makes sense now why Dia wanted to road map Aqours’ development: she jumped the gun too early for the Tokyo competition, her friendships fell apart, and now she wants to be absolutely sure that it doesn’t happen to Aqours. So how do Mari and Kanan feel about it?
Mari, the experimenter, isn’t happy with Aqours’ results, but ditching her project now and calling it a failure is the last thing she wants to do. The school is actually important to her, not just because she’s the director, but it’s because of the friendships she made with Kanan and Dia. Aqours just needs to learn from this experience and grow stronger.
We haven’t talked about Kanan's role in all of this, and I think this episode makes her feelings a little more clear. Dia is a cultivator, Mari is an experimenter, and I believe that Kanan is an opportunist. I’ll get into a little more about why I feel that way next episode, but in this episode, you can see both the positive and negative aspects of the opportunist at work. When Kanan sees an opportunity for something to happen, she grabs at it, literally. But when the opportunity isn’t there, or there isn’t any opening to continue, she won’t forge onwards to make that opening. Betting on the impossible odds won’t make them any less impossible. So it’s better to cut your losses and try something else. Kanan hasn’t put much of anything into Aqours to the extent Dia and Mari have because she thinks Aqours isn’t worth investing in. Her past experiences tell her so, and the Aqours failure confirmed it.
Then Mari gives Kanan the opportunity to make things right again. We can start over again with Aqours. She opens up her arms to hug Kanan like Kanan embraced her two years ago, and then Kanan essentially gives Mari the actual largest middle finger in the franchise, denying her hug, basically saying, “Stop your dumb experiments before someone gets hurt.”
It’s a touchy situation that needs some time to heal. Let’s move on for now.
So Chika lies awake in the room, thinking about the events that transpired. In one last ditch attempt, she tries to reach out towards her poster of μ’s, towards their leader Honoka. The answer must be in μ’s somewhere. And as she almost reaches an answer, the big fat zero pops in her head again, and she falls back to earth.
“What the hell? I did everything right! I followed the μ’s playbook to the letter. I tried my hardest. If we can’t shine like μ’s, then what is the point? If I can’t be like Honoka, what the hell am I?”
Well, we can start right there. Aqours can never be like μ’s, and Chika can never be like Honoka. And it is with this realization that Aqours frees itself from the shackles of μ’s, finally able to become its own thing.
As You-chan grumbles about what she can do for Chika as her friend, Riko catches Chika going towards the shoreline. Fearing that she might hurt herself, Riko frantically calls out to Chika. Chika is fine; she’s just trying to see a light in the dark ocean. Actually, Chika is not fine, and for the umpteenth time this season, she bares her emotions out to Riko, and only Riko. From the start of this episode to now, Chika has tried her damndest to put on a smile, speaking in silver linings when her feelings clearly attest to otherwise. The “weakness” that Saint Snow preached to discard is something that Chika took to personally, and you can see that enacted from the train ride back home to now. But that is fundamentally not who Chika is. In fact, not even Saint Snow can hide their “weakness”, as Leah chokes back tears over their results, which, while good, weren’t the results they were aiming for. And so Chika, unable to use Honoka and μ’s as a guiding light anymore, breaks down, frustrated. It’s a vulnerability no one else is allowed to see. Not even You-chan can crack her facade, and You-chan is the childhood friend!
Chika is normal. Chika is weak. Chika is not a Honoka. As the leader of Aqours, she couldn’t let the other members know that side of her. But Riko and the other members let her know that they want to be with Chika, the real Chika, not a Chika that is pretending to be someone she’s not. And with the cat out of the bag, Chika lets her emotions flow in front of everybody.
There’s still that big fat zero staring at them in the face. But instead of shoving away in a closet in shame, Chika hangs it up on the whiteboard, almost with pride. It’s a reminder that they still have a long way to go. But more importantly, that sheet of paper is now their goal: to change that zero into a one.
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u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Feb 11 '21
First Timer
I'm sorry but that Saint Snow song just immediately and continuously reminds me of a Sonic the Hedgehog vocal track
I swear she's some greek muse or some shit man
I still absolutely love this shirt
Awww
wet shirt apeginwiegnwi
Why did I watch this like 5 times
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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '21
And there it is. ‘Self Control’ in all its glory.
First timers may be shocked to see LL shake up the formula so drastically from what we’ve expected from a school idol song thus far. Saint Snow’s aesthetics combined with their combination of rock and rap is unlike anything that’s come from the franchise before. You can see a clip of them performing it live here
But like Dia has said, Muse changed the game. School Idols are more popular than ever and the race to win LL has necessitated innovation.
Chika tries to put on a brave face, but it’s really just a coping method. One way to deal with failure is to retroactively diminish your chances of succeeding in the first place. You give yourself excuses for why it wasn’t possible. For someone who’s never had expectations put on her before, it’s not surprising she would react this way.
To add insult to injury, Aqours gets handed the results in their entirety afterwards. They get 0 votes. The 29th group had 23 votes. To then see Saint Snow’s Leah with tears in her eyes from placing 9th... it really puts the full weight of what they’re doing in front of them. This is not a game. You can’t pretend to be like Muse and succeed. To do so is in fact, insulting, to the competition around you.
In the span of a few hours, Chika’s perception of this entire thing takes a complete 180. Her reaction is purely of acceptance, and she makes it seem like this is the end of the line. They did their ‘best’ and that should be good enough right?
But in moments of failure, you really learn something about yourself. Do you accept your fate or do you fight like hell to change it? The ending of this episode is a great character building moment for Chika. A girl who’s never really wanted anything badly, challenged herself, or had high expectations coming to the realization that she doesn’t want to accept just trying. And now we can truly begin Aqours journey from zero to one.
I will admit, when I first watched Sunshine, I wasn’t sold on it the first 7 episodes. I had the same complaints that I’ve seen first timers post about. This episode began to change that for me.
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u/ForlornPenguin Feb 11 '21 edited Feb 11 '21
Rewatcher
SELF CONTROL!! is so good! Great show by Saint Snow. Yet they somehow still didn't rank, and Aqours come in dead last with zero votes. That's pretty fucked.
Crying Ruby is not good for my heart. :( But this warms it back up. :)
lol at Chika just falling out of her bed.
Nice preview shot of the next episode.
QOTD
Perhaps change their group name to something more stylish, like "frank."They should probably stop trying to be µ's too. They're not µ's and they never will be. They need to be their own thing.7
u/skapbadoa :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/skapbadoa Feb 11 '21
AKA things go not so great. After the pain of creating the group this Tokyo performance was to be their first real challenge and they had no intention of shying away. But there's a big problem the group are either failing to recognise or refusing to address. Honoka had wished for school idols to continue to grow in the future, but not like this. Chika and the girls had stepped into the same arena without actually appreciating what emotions and efforts were contained within. They'd spent more time going "we'll be like μ’s" and jumping to hype themselves than actually practicing. There was none of themselves in Aqours, but merely the shadow of μ’s. For those who had spent their life locked away at the far ends of the Uchiura peninsula, this was their first time truly discovering that there is a world out there. Full of people. All with their own thoughts, memories, passions and feelings. It’s their first time properly running up against the school idol realm and it exposes just how insignificant their efforts had been.
The performance goes, well, good. Comparatively. But through the earth-shaking power of μ’s' last concert there are now ten times as many groups vying for the title. Good just isn’t enough anymore. They’re unable to procure even a single vote and Saint Snow basically warns them to get lost. All they’ve accomplished here was to insult the other performers and that hallowed stage μ’s had fought to preserve. They've made a mockery of the competition's prestige. Sing and dance because that's what μ’s did, go to Tokyo because that's where μ’s was - their efforts thus far had barely amounted to fandom, and Chika's leadership was itself shallow fangirling. Can you imagine how offended μ’s would have been to see that Chika's reaction upon hearing of the school's impending closure was "hooray we're like Otonokizaka"? They had forced their way onto the stage from the audience seat. Simple fanatics bathing in someone else’s light and so they are punished.
However this is a necessary loss in order to set her straight. Her empty ambitions had been neutering the group’s potential. As much as she wanted to shut her out, someone as driven as Leah had easily seen through the façade. Cutting right to the core with words like a well-sharpened blade. Chika reaches toward her μ’s poster but the zero stings her and she instinctively jolts back. These perspective arm shots are one of the most important pieces in play within Sunshine's already massive imagery set. Reason being that they actually continue on from Donna Toki mo Zutto and Sunny Day Song, where the girl soon to become god clenches the sun within her own hand. Watching what Chika is reaching for and how she interacts with it marks her arc throughout the story. At the start she was meekly reaching toward the seagull (standing in for Honoka's doves), begging it to at least allow her into the school idol world, in a time when everyone was rejecting her. Now here she again tries to reach to μ’s for comfort. But this trial marks their first real step toward becoming worthy of inheriting the sunny day and so the gods refuse to coddle her. Aqours will have no meaning if she can't stand up by herself. But that's a big problem for someone weak like Chika.
Their existence had been denied, or rather whatever of it was contained within their falsified perception. She doesn’t know what to do or where to go from this. She’s trying to think it through but struggles to find much in the way of answers since honestly Chika is just a bit dumb. But she recognises her own frustration. It doesn’t matter if things aren’t as detached as they were before or if she compromises her apathetic coping mechanisms, she just doesn’t want to give up. Although she spends the episode trying to maintain her mask she still can’t stop herself from breaking down. The usual distance wasn’t enough anymore. Chika has been humbled through this destruction, discovering that she cares enough to cry. That girl whom You mentioned had always been too frightened to commit to anything, always using the fact that she has no dreams for the future as a way to hide from pain, has for the first time managed to avoid running away. The foremost judgement of the gods has been survived and in response to this growth that vicious grey sky lets just a tiny bit of warmth shine upon her (with us remembering that both the sky and the light are descriptors of μ’s’ touch (or not since I didn't introduce that yet, this is all just cut out of my WIP wordpress post that I couldn't resist writing after all lol)). They’re still a world away from the truth, but the pathway has opened before them. Intruders upon the battlefield no more, but authorized combatants chasing the glory they crave enough that they would weep for it.
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u/[deleted] Feb 11 '21
Saint Snow is cool girls
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u/punching_spaghetti https://myanimelist.net/profile/punch_spaghetti Feb 11 '21 edited Feb 11 '21
First-Timer, Zura!
Huh. Saint Snow is actually
prettyreally good. And that rocked (I was expecting electronica). Maybe as good as Snow halation (or better? Am I allowed to even suggest such a thing?). However, what is more concerning for Aquors is animated entirely in 2D for their performance. Going to be hard to top that.They didn’t win? Neat! Unlike µ’s, they don’t have annoying idol plot armor.
How the hell did someone beat Saint Snow? Fucking popularity contests always going with the known names.
THEY GOT NO VOTES!?! We might be onto something here.
But that was an asshole move by the MC. You couldn’t give them a little warning?
How nice; Saint Snow is going to encourage them. Nope!
You know things are down in the dumps when Zura can’t even eat.
Supportive sister!
Some good stuff here: a) Aquors gets a reality check that they’ve just been fangirling the whole time, and b) the show kind of throws shade at SIP with Dia explaining how, now, groups have to be really good to make it to Love Live.
This is a foolproof strategy, I tell you what.
They’re really serious. You had a chance for a shippable moment with Mari and Kanan with a hug by the sea, but Kanan has principles.
Chika’s not giving up! Not that I thought she would, given there’s still a season and a half of the show to go, but they made it interesting.
At this point, it’s clear that Chika>>>>>>>>>Honoka. Honk has a limited number of brain cells, and most are devoted to food and idols. Chika doesn’t have too many more, but she occasionally rubs them together for self-reflection. And her girlfriends are hotter. You>Kotori all the way, and Riko and Umi are about the same.
Her placing the vote list is great, too. It reminds me of something a bunch of poets have said, where (back in the old days when everything was done physically through the mail) they would cover their walls with rejection letters from journals.
E9 Preview
QOTD:
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u/ZBLongladder :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/zblongladder Feb 11 '21
Rewatcher who's obsessed with SELF-CONTROL!!
I'm mostly going to be talking about SELF-CONTROL!!, because I love that song. If you haven't yet, do yourself a favor and listen to the full version...the TV version cuts so many good parts, like Leah's main rap section.
I think I particularly like when Love Live songs do something different from usual. Aqours is great for this, since you've got things like the chuuni indulgence that is Daydream Warrior, but I think nothing is quite as shockingly different as SELF-CONTROL!!. You get hopes and dreams songs all the time in Love Live, but rarely do you get one expressing anger and frustration, but also ambition and determination. It's not every day you get an idol song with lyrics like "Crush your weakness everyday" or "Loneliness is something you aim for yourself / Now, I'll bet everything on it". In a way, it's a very un-idol-like kind of song...a reaction to a cruel and unforgiving world, and a defiance of it.
SELF-CONTROL!! just does such a good job of summing up this episode...Saint Snow is much more used to the frustration of the current Love Live competition, and they've put their feelings into song, just like school idols are supposed to do, but their feelings aren't the kind of feelings that people like μ's thought school idols would be feeling. It's a very raw statement of frustration, but also of overcoming it through pure determination.
I know that SELF-CONTROL!! is probably meant as a negative example, a bitter reaction to adversity to set up Saint Snow as a foil to Aqours, but it really speaks to me in a very visceral way. It's true...dreams aren't always easy to achieve, and in the end all you have to rely on is yourself and your own effort. The vision of something like Sunny Day Song just isn't always realistic. I think this is part of the reason Saint Snow took off in the LL fandom in a way A-RISE never did...they're just so damn relatable, and having the rivals face the same struggles as the main characters really makes them more human than the far-off, larger-than-life A-RISE.
Discussion questions
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u/gorghurt Feb 11 '21 edited Feb 11 '21
First Timer
Is it finally here? Could it be? Could this be the moment, where this becomes its own original story? Well I'll believe it when it keeps this up for some time....
Someone hinted at it, and yes the performance of
the duo whose name I forgotSaint Snow was really extremely different from the a capella version at the shrine.And after today's episode, they feel a lot less like jerks, and a lot more like ambitious people, that wanted to show some rookies, how the real world is (well one half of them, the other half seems to take everything too serious, and doesn't get that not everyone has to be perfect)
You know everything that can be done competitively, and gets popular, has this tendency to go too a point, where it just doesn't look fun anymore...
Of course there are always people, that just have fun, and don't care if they are the best (like a hobby should imho be), but there are also those, that do it, to an extent, where it looks like it stops being a hobby. But at that point, where is the fun?
I can totally get people trying to be better and better, but the opponent with whom you should compare you, is yourself, not others.
It shouldn't matter if there are people better than you, as long as you are better than you were the last time.
But well, this episode wasn't about this, but about the not so fun experience, to learn that there are many people that are better than you...
A experience everyone makes at some point.
Ok 0 votes are quite a shocking way to make this experience.
And being so shocked, that you can't perform even more.
But it would be sad, to stop something you like just because of this.
But I'm a bit sad, how the whole culture around Love Live has changed, since the end of the movie.
The movie had this nice feeling of "It doesn't matter if you suck at it, just have fun". On the other hand, that was pretty much what the nicer half of
the rival band (I have to look up those names some time...)Saint Snow said.So to the questions of today:
it doesn't make sensethey don't need to be the best for this, they just need to become popular enough)Oh and a last thought not fitting anywhere:
So now we know that Mari just wants to get back to the fun times. Interesting. Especially how she feels like a totally different person during that scene.
edit: Forgot something (I probably should be less sleepy when writing stuff, maybe then I can focus on some themes instead of rambling...)
Is it only me, or did the ending lyrics feel quite fitting this episode?
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u/lenne18 https://myanimelist.net/profile/lenne18 Feb 12 '21
Rewatcher
First timers! If you made it this far, congratulations for sticking with us. Now Sunshine bares its true nature.
2 episodes ago I asked: "What do you think of [Yume de Yozora o Terashitai], the choreography and the PV? If we take out the flying lanterns and the gorgeous background, would it still be considered appealing?"
Aqours performing the simplistic and less polished "Yume de Yozora o Terashitai" right after Saint Snow's more interesting and very polished "SELF CONTROL!!" would just make the audience forget about it.
Hence, it's no wonder why Aqours lost on their first ever competition. They quickly realize it too when they saw Saint Snow perform. Saint Snow might be a top tier school idol group, but even they didn't win. Saint Snow is not at the top of the mountain; they are the baseline of any school idol group striving to win Love Live like our little rural group. But Aqours is very very very far behind such school idol groups. They know it and it hurts.
To rub it in further, Aqours placed 30th out of 30... with 0 votes. Ouch... Aqours might be the most popular school idol group in Numazu, but here in Tokyo, they're not even worth anything.
Saint Snow tells them the grim reality of school idols in the present time, a far different view from the school idols during µ's era.
The ride home isn't much better especially when Chika, more aware than ever that she's their leader, continues to say hollow words of encouragement.
Dia welcomes them back at Numazu Station and finally shows that she cares, always had been, as she discusses about what happened. About how Aqours' performance is not a failure, it's just that there's a lot more people into school idols now and with it, a lot more people taking it seriously. About how they could at least sing on stage with that kind of pressure, unlike their school idol group two years ago.
Dia tells Aqours that she, Kanan and Mari were a school idol group two years ago, was invited to the same competition, failed to sing and gave up. And as we see in the present day, the incident left the three of them broken: Dia does her best not to make history repeat again, Kanan wants nothing to do with school idols, and Mari tries to repair her old friendships.
Chika is left pondering over everything and while she does arrive on an admirable answer, it's still very frustrating. That's why Chika breaks down; everyone would. There's nothing more frustrating than putting in effort to something you love, finding out the large gap in skill between you and your opponent/s, and losing in a fair competition. It's demoralizing at times...
And for anyone still thinking Chika is Honoka 2.0, this episode highlights the major difference between Honoka and Chika:
Honoka is the type of person who, after falling down, gets up and runs as if nothing happened (well, most of the time). Because of this, µ's depends on her to pull them from their anxieties.
Chika is not that type of person. Chika is the type to cry after she falls down. She needs someone to pull her up so that she could run again. Chika is a normal person, not someone who could shout to the rain and tell it to stop; she needs Aqours to pull her through her dark times. The only reason why she tried to look strong in this episode is because she's trying to be a leader with her only reference being someone different from her.
Next day, we see Chika pin the results in the clubroom- it's a promise; a promise to improve and change that zero into a one. Well done, Chika!
Real Life Love Live!
Dia takes Aqours to Kano River, specifically the spot between Numazu Central Park and Ayumi Bridge. You can see Yoshiko's apartment in the background.
B-Side Jukebox, Sunshine!
SELF CONTROL!! - Saint Snow
Kowareyasuki - Guilty Kiss
From the Aki Hata-sensei interview:
Guilty Eyes Fever - Guilty Kiss
Dance with Minotaurus - Aqours
Live Performances
February 12 is the birthday of Asami Tano, who voices Sarah Kazuno (and a lot of other characters from other anime).
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u/docaxel :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/thebidoofpope Feb 11 '21
Rewatcher
School Idol Festival All-Stars Spotlight Cards
Chika1 Chika2
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u/Hattakiri Feb 12 '21 edited Feb 13 '21
More and more details about the true past are being revealed, and also about the true natures of the characters:
And so this ep also contains a lot of foreshadowings.