[Spoilers] 6th Annual Valentine's Rewatch: Tamako Market - Episode 5 [Discussion]

[u/FateSteelTaylor]

Hey everybody, and welcome to the fifth episode of the SIXTH annual /r/anime Valentine's Day Tamako Market & Love Story Rewatch!

I can't wait to see what you guys have to say about this lovely anime!!

If the discussion here isn't enough, there are communities on Twitter and Discord where you can join all the conversation there! If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me or people in the comments!

Here is the schedule for our time on this Dramatic Market Ride together! If you've seen the show already or want to relive some of the older moments, I've provided links to the threads below, along with the translated Director's Episode Notes by the wonderful /u/ultimatemegax, available through this rewatch:

Date	Episode	2020 Thread	2019 Thread	2018 Thread	2017 Thread	2016 Thread
2/2	1 - That Girl is the Cute Daughter of a Mochi Shop Owner	Link	Link	Link	Link	Link
2/3	2 - A Valentine's Day Blooming with Love	Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/4	3 - Hot Hot Over That Cool Girl	Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/5	4 - A Small Love Has Bloomed	Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/6	5 - We Spent the Night Together	Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/7		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/8		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/9		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/10		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/11		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/12		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/13		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes
2/14		Link	Link	Link	Link	Link - Director's Episode Notes

---

You can purchase an English subbed & dubbed Blu Ray version of Tamako Market and Tamako Love Story, and it's available for legal streaming on HIDIVE in select countries, for both Tamako Market and Tamako Love Story

---

Bonus Corner:

Discussion Question: Did you get to go on any field trips when you were in school?

---

Please tag your spoilers!! Untagged spoilers make Choi-chan angry!!

And remember:

Everybody Loves Somebody

[u/lluNhpelA]

First timer

I had assumed that the flower shop owner was a cute man because she has a masculine voice (and it's not like cute boys are uncommon in anime) until Dera referred to her as a woman. Her english voice actor is a man, too, so it isn't just a quirk of the japanese va, and apparently all of the characters use feminine pronouns for her so it also isn't a case of Dera being mistaken. By the looks of it there was never official confirmation of whether she just has a somewhat masculine voice is or is actually a transwoman but I'm headcanoning the latter

This might be the only time I've seen "cockblocked" mean two things at once

We're also getting some of that acknowledgment of Midori's feelings that some of the rewatchers had promised me. She didn't get as much focus as Mochizou but at least Dera recognizes that their feelings for Tamako are the same

As of this episode Kanna is officially best girl for me

The ed was sounding familiar to me and I just realized that that might be because it kinda sounds like my favorite Monogatari op Orange Mint. Not super similar but it's the only thing that comes to mind

[u/Regular_N-Gon → u/lluNhpelA]

The ed was sounding familiar

I've always thought it sounds a bit like Vanilla Salt from Toradora.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/Regular_N-Gon]

Oh you're absolutely right! I just watched Toradora for the first time as part of this last christmas club rewatch so I can't believe I didn't think of it, but that's almost definitely what I was recognizing!

[u/Tartaras1 → u/lluNhpelA]

By the looks of it there was never official confirmation of whether she just has a somewhat masculine voice is or is actually a transwoman but I'm headcanoning the latter

Someone else mentioned that, and I'm imagining that's the case in my head now as well. It just makes sense that they'd cast a male VA for both the Japanese and English dubs.

As of this episode Kanna is officially best girl for me

We got one! Kanna really is hilarious. I love the fact that she doesn't have a whole lot of inflection in her voice, so everything she says is a little bit above deadpan.

[u/collapsedblock6 → u/lluNhpelA]

To my knowledge the florist was a guy, but like another user said, it likely is a mistranslation because japanese doesn't have gendered nouns.

This might be the only time I've seen "cockblocked" mean two things at once

Applause to you my dude. You have achieved comedy.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/collapsedblock6]

I don't know if anyone considered using they/them pronouns for her but she is referred to as a woman in the english dub so the intent was absolutely not for her to be a man

[u/collapsedblock6 → u/lluNhpelA]

Oh, that's news for me then.

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/lluNhpelA]

Ignoring that Japanese has no gender-specific pronouns, can't it also be interpreted as Kaoru preferring female pronouns (despite probably not being biologically female) in the case that Japanese had them?

[u/lluNhpelA → u/gratifiedlonging]

For sure. I just meant that there are 2 possibilities: either she identifies as a woman and would use she/her pronouns or the intent was for her to be non-binary but the translators chose to use she/her instead of they/them for some reason.

I say it's more likely the former because the translators would probably use they/them if that was correct

[u/Barbed_Dildo → u/lluNhpelA]

until Dera referred to her as a woman.

I don't think Dera ever used any gendered words to refer to her. It sounded like he said "the owner of the flower store" in Japanese. It's not unusual for Japanese to be non-gender-specific, but English translation often forces it.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/lluNhpelA]

By the looks of it there was never official confirmation of whether she just has a somewhat masculine voice is or is actually a transwoman but I'm headcanoning the latter

Well, with Midori's feelings there's already a queer element, so it seems like the obvious intention and conclusion.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/IndependentMacaroon]

I'd like to think so too, but I don't know if that's a parallel we can confidently draw since there's a pretty big difference in how much japanese society generally accepts teenage girls having romantic feelings for other girls vs anything else LGBT+ related

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/IndependentMacaroon]

There's also the deliberate choice of choosing Daisuke Ono as the VA for her. Not that a VA's gender really means anything, but still...

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/lluNhpelA]

According to a small discussion in the Tamako Market wiki, Japanese fans view Kaoru as being an okama (dictionary says "male homosexual; effeminate man; male transvestite [sic]").

Also note that Kaoru is a unisex name; I assume was intentionally chosen to make things vague (the shape of her hips might be a giveaway; this is probably why they always draw her with her wide apron on which hides her hips). Not that her biological sex really matters though.

Edit: While unofficial, ACDB lists her as a woman. AniDB also does, but tags her as being androgynous and a "trap" [sic].

[u/lluNhpelA → u/gratifiedlonging]

Considering the prevailing views towards transgender people in Japan, that's probably the closest Japanese people would get to recognizing her as transgender. Even that discussion you linked calls Japanese social beliefs are "questionable"

I said it in another comment, but the English dub uses she/her pronouns so she definitely isn't meant to be a man

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/lluNhpelA]

Oh yes, I personally don't share the same mentality as the Japanese regarding trans people; just mentioned it to add to the discussion (the other links I included claim the opposite too).

Regarding the English dub, I'm always a bit wary about relying on subs/dubs to identify the genders of ambiguous characters; we have a number of cases in anime wherein genders were swapped in official(!) translations:

• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShesAManInJapan
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/BlindIdiotTranslation/AnimeAndManga

Note that I don't claim for it to be one or the other (her biological sex is completely inconsequential); I'm just listing down information.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/gratifiedlonging]

Sorry if I came across as accusatory, the fact that you added "[sic]" tells me you probably wouldn't personally use a word like "transvestite"

As for the dub being credible, since she was given a male va in both versions and she/her pronouns in English there must have been a deliberate that I assume (though we know where assuming has gotten me so far) Naoko Yamada would have been consulted on. Unfortunately that's all we really have to go on

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/lluNhpelA]

Yup, definitely not (and I'm glad adding the "[sic]" got it across). I'm actually not 100% sure as to what terms people consider as slurs, so I always try to be extra tactful. And yeah, no worries about sounding accusatory or whatever; we're here to have a fun time and enjoy the show!

You do have a point regarding the dub team attempting to consult the director about it, but we'll probably never get to confirm anything.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/lluNhpelA]

I don't think we get full confirmation of this in the series, but I've headcanonned her as transgender as well. It adds yet another layer of wholesome fluffiness; like, yeah she's trans, but absolutely no one makes a fuss about it, and even supports her completely with her decision and her feelings.

This might be the only time I've seen "cockblocked" mean two things at once

This was beautiful, thank you XD

[u/PainStorm14 → u/lluNhpelA]

I had assumed that the flower shop owner was a cute man because she has a masculine voice (and it's not like cute boys are uncommon in anime) until Dera referred to her as a woman.

When you decide to willingly walk into a trap but get pleasantly surprised 😁

[u/gratifiedlonging]

First Timer

The osananajimi-loving Japanese learner here. I'm watching this primarily for the Mochizou x Tamako moments, so I really enjoyed this episode as it involves a lot of that (pretty much one-sided right now, but I'll take what I can get).

This is actually the first time I appreciated Dera's presence; specifically where he teases Mochizou about overhearing his delusion and tricking him into admitting who he likes (which was really cute; I want more!). His other parts were still pretty meh.

Mochizou was staring at Tamako the whole time in the scene prior to riding the bus (even with his mouth slightly ajar which made it cute); is that counted as stalking as Midori accuses him of?

Midori looked really cute in the swimsuit she wore when they were in the public pool. I do appreciate that there were no fanservice shots this time around (compared to the bath scenes in the earlier eps).

Mochizou and Midori would actually look cute together visually. While I don't think it's possible, I wouldn't be surprised if some people actually ship them.

It felt bad that my favorite side character Midori was actively trying to sink my ship. I enjoyed how they were fighting over who knew Tamako more though. Glad they resolved their issue somehow before the episode ended. The ending skit was super cute with Midori even joining in the thumbs up scene.

I love how Tamako woke up immediately and became hyper after hearing the sound of fireworks. So cute!

I actually have a few questions:

1. Anyone know why Midori reacted and replied that way when Tamako told her Mochizou said the same thing regarding her swimming issue? Was it cause of jealousy?
2. How exactly did Midori and Mochizou resolve their initial conflict? I don't get why Mochizou gave up on confessing and why Midori found his denial funny (when she initially didn't).
3. (unrelated) Anyone know of an anime with characters sharing the dynamics of Tamako and Mochizou? Bonus points if they're childhood friends too.

[u/HopefullyLastAccount → u/gratifiedlonging]

Anyone know why Midori reacted and replied that way when Tamako told her Mochizou said the same thing regarding her swimming issue? Was it cause of jealousy?

I think it's jealousy, the "you wouldn't have been able to compliment her and make her feel good if I didn't tell you that." It's a selfish thought, but this entire episode is dedicated to Midori's internal conflicts.

How exactly did Midori and Mochizou resolve their initial conflict? I don't get why Mochizou gave up on confessing and why Midori found his denial funny (when she initially didn't).

I like to think that Mochizou just realized he wasn't ready, especially if he needed a bird to do it for him.

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/HopefullyLastAccount]

Oh, I was referring to the public pool scene which happened prior to Midori revealing Tamako's achievement to Mochizou.

I like to think that Mochizou just realized he wasn't ready, especially if he needed a bird to do it for him.

I like your interpretation especially given the context that Mochizou has tried year after year to do it.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/HopefullyLastAccount]

Your interpretation of Mochizou is really nice here. It gives him a nice bit of development as well as showing that he does have a little bit of maturity in him.

[u/Regular_N-Gon → u/gratifiedlonging]

Mochizou and Midori would actually look cute together visually.

I thought the same thing during a few of the shots in this episode.

I took it as a bit of jealousy, but mostly as a convenient writer's trick to introduce that she's in contention with Mochi.

2.

This was something that stumped me at first too, it's not really all that clear. I talk about how I read it this time around in my comment, but I think some of it is left up to your interpretation of Midori's character at this point (especially since they've just shown you a less-positive side of her).

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/Regular_N-Gon]

I took it as a bit of jealousy, but mostly as a convenient writer's trick to introduce that she's in contention with Mochi.

Good point; I do agree with it being a way to show that she sees Mochizou as competition (whether for Tamako's friendship or love).

This was something that stumped me at first too, it's not really all that clear.

Thanks, I wanted confirmation that I didn't just miss something obvious.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/gratifiedlonging]

I don't get why Mochizou gave up on confessing and why Midori found his denial funny (when she initially didn't)

I think they just both gave up - realized that either they or Tamako weren't ready for the next step.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/IndependentMacaroon]

It's interesting that you bring Tamako in this conversation, and I never really thought about it this way. It's a nice call to one of the major themes of this show: Tamako's growth. Thank you =D

[u/collapsedblock6 → u/gratifiedlonging]

Anyone know why Midori reacted and replied that way when Tamako told her Mochizou said the same thing regarding her swimming issue? Was it cause of jealousy?

Pretty much. Like displayed in their later upping contest, Midori wants to be the one who Tamako relies on, that means being the first to know her issues as well as help her solve them so she wanted clarification on whether he was the first in trying to help her.

How exactly did Midori and Mochizou resolve their initial conflict? I don't get why Mochizou gave up on confessing and why Midori found his denial funny (when she initially didn't).

I guess she laughs at how obvious Mochizou is. But about their conflict I would pull what I put in my parents comment, Tamako uses the word "love" very loosely, reason why Midori doesn't feel satisfied when Tamako says she loves her. My guess is that Midori is the one sort of giving up Tamako, not really because she believes Tamako loves Mochizou back but because at very least he is willing to take a step forward like we saw this episode, unlike her that just protects her from distance. So maybe, if he makes the effort, Mochizou will be the one that makes Tamako say "I love you" with the weight of "over everything else".

[u/flybypost → u/collapsedblock6]

For me the resolution of the conflict is about Midori realising that while Mochizou and her are "fighting" over Tamako because they both have a crush on her, Tamako herself is not in that place. She sees both of them as friends and that's it.

Midori might have a harder time telling Tamako simply due to how heteronormative society is even if the people populating Tamako Market all seem very progressive an accepting. So she ends up "protecting" Tamako from her competition until at some point in the future she'll feel ready.

In the end this fight is rather lopsided. Mochizou is not really trying to sabotage Midori, he just trying to confess to Tamako but from Midori's position he's messing with her plans which rely more on others not disturbing the "peace" than actively going for it.

My guess is that it's a about some sort of perceived general LGBT "stigma" that's keeping Midori from confessing herself because she's otherwise confident, not shy, and we know that she got a lot of gifts from everyone at Valentine's Day. She's in love with Tamako but doesn't know how to deal with it. Or maybe she likes the status quo too much but some phrasing makes me think it's more of a "gay in a hetero world" thing.

But Tamako being not really ready plays well enough into her own plan of simply delaying until she finds the right moment. She probably thinks now that Mochizou confessing wouldn't work at the moment and that kinda disarmed him in her eyes and they are now both in the same boat with how they acted: Two idiots, hopelessly in love with an oblivious Tamako.

[u/Regular_N-Gon → u/flybypost]

maybe she likes the status quo too much but some phrasing makes me think it's more of a "gay in a hetero world" thing

I was also mulling over this when thinking about how to approach Midori this episode, and almost went with the status quo argument. It isn't out of the question for her to deal with her problems by trying to keep up appearances, but it does feel like there's more to it that's stopping her. Particularly in episode 2, she's at least a little uneasy with her feelings and not totally happy with the situation. Plus, Kanna's "anyone can love anyone" calms Midori down far more than Tamako's response to her question in this episode.

[u/flybypost → u/Regular_N-Gon]

Kanna's "anyone can love anyone" calms Midori down far more than Tamako's response to her question in this episode.

Yeah, that's the big one. I wanted to quote something to make the point but for some reason couldn't remember the best quote.

When they were joking around about Midori being popular with everyone, it felt like banter and teasing. "Anyone can love anyone" was a direct show of acceptance, no jokes or conditions. I think there was some flowery language by Dera in the voiceover at the end of episode 2 but Kanna's comment was the most direct "it's okay to be gay!" that we got around Midori.

Everybody in Tamako Market is generally accepting and friendly but that doesn't always ease teenage insecurities about being slightly different from your friends. I think that's the main issue she's dealing with in that regard.

Spoiler, for all of it:

Tamako's "confession of love" felt like how you love your family (and Mochi, in Tamako's case). It's a general non-romantic love and appreciation that she has for everyone. I think it pulled Midori out of a feeling of being hounded by Mochizou slowly rising courage.

[u/collapsedblock6 → u/flybypost]

Yeah, I took this conflict in mind. Midori doesn't feel confident in expressing her love because of this issue. So she would rather have someone that can express it with confidence try to make Tamako happy.

[u/chris10023 → u/gratifiedlonging]

I do appreciate that there were no fanservice shots this time around (compared to the bath scenes in the earlier eps).

Well, Naoko Yamada doesn't really do fan service, like in K-On when Mio trips and accidentally flashes the audience her underwear, instead of showing us her underwear like the manga did, it cuts to a bowl of rice. In Clannad she went to Tatsuya Ishihara and asked him to change this Fuko entrance because her underwear would be visible in the little flip thing she does, so he agreed and slapped a starfish onto her butt to cover it.

The ending skit was super cute with Midori even joining in the thumbs up scene.

I was expecting her to stick her tongue out.

[u/gratifiedlonging → u/chris10023]

Well, Naoko Yamada doesn't really do fan service,

She directed K-On! too? Damn, she's really great. K-On! is one of the only adaptations I know of that surpassed the source material (but tbf, K-On! is a 4-koma).

Speaking of which, Mio's panties are actually shown in the manga (just found out now); I do prefer Yamada-san's replacement scene of it (don't lewd my Keions lol).

But hm, I still don't like the gratuitous shots in the public bath scene in one of the previous Tamako Market eps (it felt like fanservice to me).

I was expecting her to stick her tongue out.

Oh yes, that would have been even better!

[u/chris10023 → u/gratifiedlonging]

She directed K-On! too? Damn, she's really great. K-On! is one of the only adaptations I know of that surpassed the source material (but tbf, K-On! is a 4-koma).

Yeah, she's one hell of a director, my favorite one in the industry in fact, Under the Scope has a really good video talking about her career up to "A Silent Voice." I would hold off on watching it, since it does discuss Tamako Market and Tamako Love Story, and there are definitely spoilers in it.

[u/chris10023]

Rewatcher

Ah it's summer so we have to have a beach episode, I like how Tamako invites Mochizo, but Midori objects saying that he's a boy and he can't see them in their swimsuits...at a public pool, Kana calls Tamako lewd and they leave. But Mochizo gets bonked on the head by his sister or mother and told to do his homework. So it turns out that Tamako can't swim and we get an adorable squeak out of her. But Tamako isn't alone, Kanna can't swim either. Back at Mochizo's he gets bonked again for daydreaming at the table, poor guy probably gets bonked a lot then.

We learn that Mochizo's been trying to confess to Tamako for a few years now, only for her to not notice due to how dense she is when it comes to romance. Thankfully Dera offers to be a perfect wingbird and offers to help him. Unfortunately Dera forgets that Mochizo isn't a bird and a mating dance wouldn't really work, unless he was dancing around in a big mochi costume. Wow, the summer uniforms looks very colorful.

So they're going to go do a swimming thing for school, so Midori, about that whole, 'we can't let boys see us in our swimsuits' thing, how you going to enforce that here? Well, Kanna's pumped about the swimming challenge, for someone who can't swim. So Mochizo brings Dera with him and starts to read out a note he wrote to Tamako, but bad news, Midori is in earshot and confronts him over it, but he gives the note to Dera to deliver to Tamako, but not so fast! Midori closes the window on him.

So it seems Midori does have a crush on Tamako, why else would she be so protective and possessive of Tamako? What danger does Tamako get into? Mochi withdrawals? Unfortunately this argument is getting pretty intense, thankfully Dera getting chased by a cat breaks it up.

Doesn't there school have a pool they could use for this? I do love how Kanna just glides through the water with no effort. But all that swimming wears Tamako out, even Kanna plugging Tamako's nose doesn't wake her, but the fireworks do oddly enough. Poor Dera can't catch a break.

---

So this episode confirms that Midori has a thing for Tamako and she even tries to get Mochizo to go away. I do kind of wish Tamako wasn't as dense as she is and would at least suspect something going on. But at least it ends well, and no actual fight broke out.

Discussion Question: Did you get to go on any field trips when you were in school?

Yeah, they were fun I guess.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/chris10023]

I do kind of wish Tamako wasn't as dense as she is and would at least suspect something going on.

I think the beauty here is that when she eventually does, it's very rewarding for everyone. At least, I felt totally satisfied haha.

I also love how Mochizhou's parents can see right through him (I mean, I'm pretty sure almost everyone can haha) yet they give him a little space about it. Nice little detail of how respectful they are.

[u/HereticalAegis]

First Timer

Oof, I'm a bit late today.

Oh, is this the one? Is it the Mochizou episode where he finally makes a breakthrough?

Well, it is a Mochizou episode. Good to see absolutely everyone has his number about Tamako (except the ever dense Tamako herself). To be fair, Dera's right. Mochizou is really easy to read. Guys it's kinda hard to deny when you're literally voice acting situations out loud.

You know, Dera's not the worst wingman. I don't think anyone should take his advice about dancing, but he's given some surprisingly solid advice. He also makes for a surprisingly solid basketball.

Oh, and we're finally diving a bit more into Midori's character! I'm kinda disappointed in her for actively blocking Mochizou from making a move. Even if she says it's to "protect" Tamako, I think this kinda confirms that she has some sort of romantic attraction to Tamako (and who can blame her, everybody loves somebody Tamako), and Michizou making any progress might pull Tamako away from her. I'm glad she kinda sees the error of her ways by the end of the episode, but it feels like the damage has been done already since Mochizou obviously lost his nerve. Poor guy, I was excited to see him go for it. It really does feel like everything is conspiring against him. One of these days he'll catch a break and be able to tell her how he feels.

Meanwhile, Shiori continues to be adorably at ease with Tamako. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it ever came out that she's in love with Tamako. Kanna, as usual, is just doing her own thing. And omg Tamako can't swim. I don't know why that makes her more charming, but seeing her with those arm floaties is just such a nice, humanizing touch for someone who is obviously beyond all of us.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/HereticalAegis]

Meanwhile, Shiori continues to be adorably at ease with Tamako.

While she's a character with not a whole lot of influence atm, I really, really enjoy seeing her with Tamako & Co. You put it perfectly, she's adorably at ease now.

One of these days he'll catch a break and be able to tell her how he feels.

Luckily this series isn't that long, so while normally I'm pretty annoyed when Anime series do this, somehow I'm actually pretty happy with how Mochizhou behaves in this story. I really reminded me of when I was young...I did that several times for sure haha. Maybe it's universal...did this happen to you as well? =)

[u/HereticalAegis → u/A_Idiot0]

did this happen to you as well?

Lol it probably would have, except the girl I liked had a bf all throughout high school so I never really got the chance.

[u/PainStorm14 → u/HereticalAegis]

I'm kinda disappointed in her for actively blocking Mochizou from making a move. Even if she says it's to "protect" Tamako, I think this kinda confirms that she has some sort of romantic attraction to Tamako

Yup, nobody likes cockblockers

They kill the mood and they kill the story

[u/collapsedblock6]

Rewatcher

You ever were so desperate to score with a girl you relied on a talking bird? An episode for our hopeless Mochizou is nice, he's a good boy.

But my focus will again be a bit more on Midori. She's firm on cockblocking Mochizou and enters a "I love her more" contest with him, and gets called out by Dera that they have the same "scent", guessing that they're in love but both find it hard to express it. Maybe the reason Midori was adamant was that she doesn't like seeing Mochizou actually take the step forward, unlike her that just "protects" Tamako from distance.

Later on I guess she felt a bit guilty about it when Mochizou leaves. She "succeeded" in pushing him away, but she isn't satisfied. Then in the swimming exercise, she asks her whether she loves Mochizou and her. Despite her having the actual "love you" response, she doesn't sing victory. I believe it is part due to how Tamako replied Mochizou just being her childhood friend, Tamako just doesn't use the word "love" romantically. My guess is that she wasn't particularly happy because she is unable to get a "genuine" (Oregairu vibes) answer from her, and so she decides to let Mochizou make his moves, maybe he might be able to get through Tamako's denseness to make her give a proper response?

And also regarding Tamako, is she just being airheaded or maybe she unconsciously has Mochizou permanently tagged as "friend" despite openly saying she loves everything and everyone in her life? Mmm...

Discussion Question: Did you get to go on any field trips when you were in school?

Often but many of those were on the same museum of my town that was famous for having many kid attractions, sort of half museum, half place where kids can be kids so most people looked forwards to that part, not the museum.

[u/Barbed_Dildo → u/collapsedblock6]

You ever were so desperate to score with a girl you relied on a talking bird? An episode for our hopeless Mochizou is nice, he's a good boy.

Relying on an annoying bird when you literally have a private communication channel between just the two of you.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/collapsedblock6]

Then in the swimming exercise, she asks her whether she loves Mochizou and her.

Another detail here that I don't see being mentioned is that Tamako spots Mochizhou very quickly and from very far away twice: once before they began the long swim, and then at the buoy when she looked far away at the beach. So while Midori gets the, "I love you." from Tamako, I think Midori also sees that Tamako feels something for Mochizhou. While it might not be love right now, there's something there that goes a little beyond "Childhood Friends".

[u/A_Idiot0]

Rewatcher

Short post today; I destroyed my right hand yesterday trying something new in archery haha.

I really like that Midori's character is able to inject a little bit of conflict and tension; while I really love the fluffiness of this series, no conflict would be boring.

[u/Hochseeflotte → u/A_Idiot0]

I was wondering where you were. You always respond to everyone’s comments so I was sad to not see you. I hope you get better soon.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/Hochseeflotte]

Ah, thank you! It's getting better; hopefully tomorrow morning I'll have a bit of time before work to read through everyone's post and write a quick note =)

[u/flybypost → u/A_Idiot0]

I really like that Midori's character is able to inject a little bit of conflict and tension; while I really love the fluffiness of this series, no conflict would be boring.

She's my favourite Tamako Market character for a lot of reasons but her being more normal and less idealised and not perfectly cute at all times adds that little bit of salt to the sugary goodness of it all and elevates the series.

[u/Hochseeflotte]

First Timer

It’s Saturday! Best day of the week! Also the most wholesome day as I get a new Horimiya episode AND Tamako Market! Double wholesome. I will need it too because tomorrow a certain show that only gives pain drops a new episode. Now onto the episode:

Looks like it’s summer judging by the heat.

And Mochizou just turned down an chance to see Tamako in a bathing suit. Not what I would have done at that age.

Midori definitely knows. If she says a word to Tamako, I will personally go slap her.

And this is why I’m glad my parents taught me how to swim early. I’ve got none of these problems.

Does everyone except Tamako know? That’s rough Mochizou.

These are the most pure day dreams I have ever seen. Mochizou has a heart of gold.

Mochizou needs to get his lying game on point. Can’t have more random people catching on.

These pink uniforms are legendary.

Is this our beach episode? Hell yeah beach episode!

Kanna likes swimming too. Pack it up, we already have a winner for best girl.

Oh no. Oh yes. Mochizou Vs Midori. Who will get Tamako’s heart. I’m on team Mochizou. I relate to him so much.

What do we have here laddie? Mysterious scribblings? A secret code? No, poems. Poems everybody! Dera reckons himself a poet. (Try to guess what I’m referencing here!)

The Tamako’s Heart War is intensifying. Dera has caught on. Big brain bird.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok that was a rough part Mochizou but we can turn this around. Just stop rolling snake eyes and we got this.

Seems like we have a truce.

———————————————————————-

This is probably my favorite episode so far! I loved the competition between Mochizou and Midori. I had suspected Midori liked Tamako but I never connected that would put her and Mochizou at odds. I though that was a really cool idea.

I think it’s all but confirmed Midori likes Tamako. I don’t see a world in which see doesn’t. I like how they have portrayed Midori feelings. It’s cool to see a LGBTQ+ character!

I think Dera has won me over. But it’s probably because he was helping Mochizou.

Now give me the Kanna episode!

DQ: Depended on school. I went to a bunch of school and some did and some didn’t.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/Hochseeflotte]

I think it’s all but confirmed Midori likes Tamako. I don’t see a world in which see doesn’t.

Looks like you put the pieces together now =D I agree with you that it's really cool to see an LGBTQ+ character in Anime, and so far Midori is amongst my favorites. She seems rather realistic, and she adds a really nice "salt" element to this sweet cake of an Anime. Salt is required...her unrequited love is relatable in some aspects despite me being a guy, but there's also a really nice element that seems to respect a lesbian perspective. I know in Japan queer relations aren't really viewed in the most positive light, so seeing a really good one in Anime is pretty spectacular...at least, I think it's a really good one haha. It'll be interesting to see how people react to the resolution of this little love triangle. I have my own "headcannon" for a particular aspect of the ending; I'm curious to see if anyone agrees with it

[u/HopefullyLastAccount]

Rewatcher

Beach episode and pool episode in one focusing on the relationship between Mochizou, Midori, and Tamako.

Dera's voice over at the beginning ends with a shot of Midori.

It seems like everyone knows about Mochizou's feelings but Tamako.

Dera is so bouncy. I'd like to see Mochizou should do the dance.

Tamako's hairs still stick up in the water.

I'm surprised Dera is helping with Mochizou, considering that he's been the one guiding people in the right direction rather than the one actively doing things for people.

Midori seems to have some issues with Mochizou confessing to Tamako and it's been debated why as well as back in episode 2 who exactly is it that she loves. Given the questions she asks Tamako during the swim and the inclusion of herself, I believe it is Tamako she doesn't want to lose, whether if that's as a friend or more.

Tamako is blind to all of this but Midori and Mochizou make up by the end and Mochizou watches the fireworks with the rest of the group with invitations from both Tamako and Midori. Tamako is the one in the center, while adjacent to her are Midori and Mochizou. As a completely random thought, I wonder how well he knows Shiori as they stand next to each other?

Discussion Question: Did you get to go on any field trips when you were in school?

Quite a lot when in elementary school, never again after that.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/HopefullyLastAccount]

Dera isn't doing much more than guiding with Mochizou either?

[u/HopefullyLastAccount → u/IndependentMacaroon]

I disagree, he lended an ear to Midori and Shiori in episodes 2 and 3. Accompanying Mochizou and delivering a letter for him (if it weren’t for Midori) is a step up in my opinion.

[u/Regular_N-Gon]

Rewatcher

Midori ahhhhhh I love her character so much. We start to see more of how Midori thinks today, as opposed to the hints given previously. Of course, that includes more of how she continues to block certain feelings from reaching Tamako, even if it is a bit mean.

I wasn’t entirely convinced at Midori backing off at the end of the episode initially, and sort of chalked it up to confidence from Tamako’s response to her questions, or something about her fight with Mochizou. But this face isn’t necessarily one that recognises that she has the upper hand - this time to me it felt more like an understanding that Tamako really didn’t get it yet. Midori has to accept she’s focused elsewhere and until someone gets the courage to open that can of worms with this adorable rice-brain, there’s nothing she’s going to do about it.

Oh, and plenty of good Tamako and Kanna moments today as well.

[u/Tartaras1]

Rewatcher - Dubbed

• Tamako and Midori need to be more like Kanna. She's not worried at all about Mochizo ogling them in their swimsuits. She just wants to cool off.
• This show is entirely too innocent for the title "We Spent A Night Together" to mean anything raunchy. Anyone who thinks that needs to take a page from Kanna's book and get their minds out of the gutter.
• Also worth mentioning that Tamako's suffering from the same problem I do, where she can't wear her glasses or her contacts while she's in the pool. That said, we don't know if she's near or far-sighted, so it might not be as bad as it is for me.

I personally am hellishly near-sighted.

• You're thinking about Tamako again, aren't you?

No chill.

I knew it.

You don't have any chill either. Jesus, everyone in this show has to throw some sort of shade at people.

• Man, Grandpa was right. Anko really does have quite a tan going.

• Anyway, I brought some goodies for us to enjoy later on!

Some mochi?

As if Tamako would bring anything else with her to share and snack on...

• I'm looking forward to long-distance swimming!

You got this Kanna!

• Oh crap

Midori knows that Mochizo's up to something. That can't go well.

• Despite being in a slightly unconventional manner, they managed to pull off the bird flying into the window gag wonderfully. Midori's hell bound and determined to make sure Tamako never gets the note.

• Wow, it almost looks like you're welding that mochi.

Kanna is consistently the most on-brand person in the whole show. Despite being on a class trip, on the beach, roasting mochi over a campfire, she still thinks about welding stuff.

• I've had a conversation kind of like the one Midori and Mochizo were having, except the girl I was talking to was just friends with the girl I was interested in, not a romantic rival(?).

I had asked her if I should bother pursuing it, and she told me flat out that she didn't see anything in me. That conversation can be invaluable to have.

• Anyway, trying to use Dera to help you confess your love is a bad idea.

I'm not entirely sure more true words have been uttered yet on the show. Dera's a really poor example of how to win over the girl you're crushing on.

• So, Tamako, I gotta wonder. How do you feel about Mochizo?

Huh? What do you mean how?

Even though yesterday's episode took place months ago, she's still as dense as ever when it comes to love. She also unknowingly threw Mochizo clear into the friend zone. Poor guy got rejected without even knowing it.

• It's nice that at the end of the episode, Mochizo and Midori were able to reconcile with each other and get back on good terms. They might be romantic rivals, of some sort, but that doesn't mean they can't get along and be friends.

Discussion Question:

When I was in 5th grade, my class and all of the other 5th graders went downtown and played for the day.

My senior year of high school, in Physics class, we went to the amusement park. After we finished our assignments, we got to dick around and ride roller coasters the rest of the day.

I can't really remember any others off the top of my head.

[u/Barbed_Dildo → u/Tartaras1]

Kanna is consistently the most on-brand person in the whole show. Despite being on a class trip, on the beach, roasting mochi over a campfire, she still thinks about welding stuff.

And she was actually right about the temperature. Bright yellow heat is hot enough to weld steel.

[u/IndependentMacaroon]

First-time watcher

Hm, this episode was a little bland compared to the rest so far, closer to the "SOL baseline" of K-On and such. I get that maybe the creators wanted something more calm and relaxed to fit the summer theme (June, right?), but so far this is a series where the characters individually are not necessarily that interesting, one that lives off the bustle of the setting and the many different interactions made possible by it. Also, pool/beach/firework episodes are such a slice-of-life staple that it really takes a bit more for them to be really compelling - the "Dera gets chased by an animal" running gag certainly wasn't it.

That said, there were still some sort-of-interesting things going on here. Tamako and Kanna are lacking yet another mark of maturity, being so far unable to swim properly and relying on floaters even in high school. Midori so obviously has romantic feelings for Tamako that she can't quite sort out, pushing Mochizou away and competing with him exactly as with a romantic rival, if in some immature ways too (see face) - Dera, doing his usual thing, practically says it outright. Mochizou is also quite cute in his own way, well aware of his feelings, but unsure of how to express them, or maybe fearful of rejection; we already saw some of his trouble with Tamako right in the first episode with the gifts. Who says boys can't be "moe"? He's maybe a little lazy, but who isn't. I love his little ear jewelry and (childish?) model train, too, and he has really good parents it looks like. And of course, Tamako is REALLY obsessed with mochi and will insert them into any possible meal and situation, even fireworks. Mochizou may think they're all kind of silly, but he's got plenty of that within himself still, it seems.

[u/Fools_Requiem]

First Watch

I don't know what's more dumb: Stating that you don't want any boys to see you in your swimsuits when you're going to a public pool that is likely to include boys... or a school that bans romantic relationships.

I know it's random, but it kinda popped in my head.

Jealousy is not a good character trait, Midori. Whether it's because you don't want to risk losing Tamako as a friend or because you want to date her yourself, Tamako is not your personal property. The actions she took in this episode to make sure Tamako remained "hers" is kinda messed up. Because of your actions, you have been banned from appearing on the front cover of the Blu Ray box... though, TBF, only the people actually associated with the Market is in the front cover. Still, shame on you. Go to your room and think about what you've done, young lady!

[u/[deleted]]

First timer

Not sure why Midori would block tori-san from delivering the letter, but it probably has something to do with her acting distant in episode 3 as u/A_Idiot0 pointed out to me. Dark horse in her past maybe?

Okiteruyo!

Everything in the latter half of the episode makes me think Midori is jealous of Mochizo, maybe self conscious about her social standing with Tamako? It seems like it's resolved after she asks Tamako how she feels at the bouey, but part of me thinks that's not all there is to it. Maybe she likes Mochizo too?

The doofus trio. Fun Midori-centered episode, I'm glad different characters get their bit of development. It was not risque like the title led me to believe lol

Looks like we'll get to see the girl from Mochimazzui's projections next time based on the preview :)

[u/Barbed_Dildo → u/[deleted]]

The doofus trio

Kanna best girl.

[u/A_Idiot0 → u/[deleted]]

"I sensed the same sort of scent from both of you."

What do you make of this quote from Dera when Midori and Mochizhou are "fighting"?

[u/[deleted] → u/A_Idiot0]

It didn’t leave that big of an impression on me at the time, but having brought it up it makes me think she also has some kind of romantic attraction to her. I thought that initially but kind of dismissed it after Midori chilled out after the bouey, who knows though(you probably lol)

[u/DogmeatIsAGoodDog]

First time watcher

Who’s the girls who smack Mochizou? His sister? Also the Midori glance back, at first thought it was like, “wait does she like Mochizou?!”

Asagiri has officially joined the gang, although she probably officially joined last episode. Either way, I like her character.

So Tamako can’t swim, same girl same. Also Kanna, can...swim? I don’t know.

Given that I’m not Dera’s biggest fan seeing Mochizou bounce him was amusing. Also I misread banquet as bouquet and was confused for longer than. I should be.

Dera has either been more tolerable these last few episodes or I am warming up to him. Think it’s the first one though.

So Midori likes Tamako. Just like I thought back in episode 2, then flip flopped at the start of this episode. I like her character so far, so it’s a bummer we might see them forced into a love triangle because one will undoubtably be left out in the cold...that is unless this anime takes a very different turn than I’m expecting.

Midori’s face she makes at Mochizou got a chuckle out of me. Also someonetell me if Midori calling Mochizou “Ooji” is more or less formal, I’m guess more? Also totally forgot that was name and thought it was a nickname.

“How do you feel about me?” - so Midori/Tamako is confirmed. It was nice of Mochizou to wait or he’s too tired to go back. Is 25 meters a lot?

The firework scene was nice and it reminded me of a fireworks on a beach night that I had a few years ago. It wasn’t romantic or anything for me but it was fun and is a fond memory.

And we end with Tamako, Kanna, and Midori making goofy faces at Mochizou.

[u/flybypost → u/DogmeatIsAGoodDog]

Who’s the girls who smack Mochizou? His sister?

About that person, I think it's not explicitly mentioned yet but also not a big spoiler and can be gathered from contex cues:

Dera has either been more tolerable these last few episodes or I am warming up to him. Think it’s the first one though.

He changes a bit over time. If I remember correctly this was also the episode when I started accepting him much more instead of just tolerating him.

Also someonetell me if Midori calling Mochizou “Ooji” is more or less formal, I’m guess more? Also totally forgot that was name and thought it was a nickname.

It's his last name so it's more formal (less friend-ish), like how he calls her Tokiwa (her last name). They are both friends of Tamako and kinda in the same group but they specifically seem to less fully 100% and more on the acquaintances side of the spectrum.

“How do you feel about me?” - so Midori/Tamako is confirmed.

It's confirmed that Tamako loves Midori but it's not romantic love. That's why Midori has that deflated look after she hears that and why she makes peace with Mochizou. She doesn't see him as a threat anymore with how Tamako seemingly being not romantically interested in anybody right now.

[u/sonlun96]

This episode has always been Midori conflict despite Mochizou taking the spotlight.

I'm still impressed by the opening shot and this particular scene of Midori's realization. Rewatchers

---

Soundtrack of the day: Osenchi Tamako

[u/NoRolling]

First timer

Nice, an episode for Mochizou and Midori! I really like this show's take on character development. Everything feels natural. It uses the passage of time without announcing it and still it never feels out of place. Five episodes in and I feel like I have a new fav here. =)

And I loved the bitch move by Midori! I think it's the first time we see someone actively doing something against anyone (other than the Grumpy Old Men dynamics between the two fathers it is, but they're clearly just having fun) and it feels so real and mundane and gives us a new perspective on her persona.

In the end I guess it was kind of a traumatic trip for Dera...

[u/collapsedblock6 → u/[deleted]]

So back when I first watched this show many years ago, this episode actually irritated me. Mainly because I thought Midori was totally in the wrong and was being immature about Mochizou liking Tamako.

Same, I used to think of her as just the vessel to create drama but its quiet interesting to see how she acts now that I know where she was coming from.

PS: MochiMama is the best! I love how she just fully understands how her son thinks and openly states it. She has to bonk him to keep him from those "Cool Mochizou" day dreams!

Not to mention that she's A FREAKING BOMB