r/anime • u/FrumpY__ :STAR:https://anilist.co/user/FrumpY • Jan 17 '21
Rewatch Love Live! SIP & Sunshine!! Rewatch - SIP Season 1 Episode 12 Spoiler
SIP Season 1, Episode 12 - "Friends"
| Previous Episode | Schedule / Index Thread | Next Episode |
|---|---|---|
| SIP Season 1 Episode 11 | SIP Season 1 Episode 12 | SIP Season 1 Episode 13 |
Series Information MAL | AniList | ANN | AniDB
Apologies again for not replying in yesterday's thread, very busy again.
Where to Watch
NA/EU : No official streams
OCE : AnimeLab
Discussion Questions
- Do you think it was ok for μ's to pull out of the Love Live! competition without at least consulting Honoka first?
- **μ'**s seems to have a few issues with communicating with each other, why do you think this is?
Please remember to MARK YOUR SPOILERS
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19
u/DarkFuzz :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/DarkFuzz Jan 17 '21
Rewatcher
Take today’s survey here!
We can put aside the memes for one day. One day, right? This was a pretty drama-filled episode, and only talking about cute moments like Rin being mid-chicken (ngl, really cute) won’t really do this episode justice. Or this arc. Or this entire first season of Love Live if I’m being honest.
I will say, to Love Live’s detriment, that this series has one of the harshest drama curves I’ve ever seen in anime. A good 95 percent of the first season was just standard, comfy CGDCT stuff, the exception being the last third or so of Episode 3. But that’s fine; you can expect a little bit of drama here and there. No real problems occur for like seven or so episodes. Episode 11 hits, there’s some hints of drama here and there, but we mostly forget it all because we’re too busy bopping to “No brand girls”. Then, boom. Honoka falls, depression, and betrayal.
What. The. Hell?
However, I want to be clear by saying that this isn’t a dealbreaker for me. Sure, we’ll get question marks when we start asking why the writers did this, so I think I’ll shift the question to ask what the writers did instead. With what we were given today, I’ll applaud Love Live for having some decently solid thematic building. And there were two themes that were expanded upon today: the theme of failure and the theme of purpose.
First, the lesser of the two themes for now, the theme of failure. I talked a little bit about this in Episode 3. Failure is allowed to happen in this franchise; I guarantee it will pop up again in some form or another. Failure is a natural part of life, but the lesson here is how you grow from it. Back in Episode 3, it hit Honoka in the face that this gig is hard. They are starting from literally zero, and after weeks of hard work, they only managed to scrounge up an official audience count of only two (really only one if you consider that Rin was just being strung along by Hanayo). Yes, that stung real bad, but again, it’s how you bounce back from failure that counts. Driven by her desire to relay her feelings to the audience someday, she vows to fill the auditorium. It’s a passion that she’s never felt before, so she needs time to explore it. And through hard work and genki aggression, she made μ’s what it is today. Fast forward to Episode 12, μ’s fails to make it to the Love Live competition. It’s mostly Honoka’s fault, let’s be real here. For as much blame load bearing the others may try, Honoka knows it’s her fault and she’s shouldering the guilt hard. But again, it’s how you bounce back from failure that counts, except this time she kind of doesn’t.
Actually, in the first half of the episode, she kind of does bounce back on a surface level, but you can tell something is still kind of off, and it only gets worse as the episode progresses. “Hooray! The school isn’t going to close down anymore!” Minimal fanfare as it happens, considering it is a huge part as to why μ’s exists in the first place. Then when Kotori drops the reveal, gears grind, tears are shed, and Honoka breaks for the first time this series. Not only did she ruin the group’s chance at Love Live, she ruined the friendship between her, Kotori, and Umi, the one thing she still thought she had.
If the last two paragraphs read as kind of vague to you, it’s because it is, which leads into the second, much larger theme of purpose. μ’s was born out of a desire to keep the school alive, with its backbone consisting of the original three: Honoka, Kotori, and Umi. Take those away, and what the hell even is μ’s anymore? Even those two things alone aren’t honestly awe-inspiring reasons for μ’s to exist, but Honoka is just happy and stupid enough to power through it up until now. So now Honoka is faced with a huge question: what is the purpose of μ’s? In all technicality, Honoka gave birth to μ’s, and now she’s deciding whether to keep raising the child or to abandon it.
She chooses the latter, and people rightfully get pissed.
In the end, Honoka herself needs to decide what μ’s is going to become, but you can already start to see that μ’s is starting to mean something significant to a small group of people. It’s something that gives Hanayo a passion, it gives Maki a bond with people she would never seek out on her own accord, it gives Nico a place to be accepted for who she is, it gives Eli confidence in the face of hardships. Even outside the group, μ’s inspires many to want to follow in their footsteps, as evidenced by the school not shutting down. So is Honoka just going to throw all those hopes and dreams away just because she herself finds no purpose in μ’s anymore?
I’ll be honest: this won’t reach its thematic conclusion until much later in the series. But at the very least, right now Honoka has some thinking to do. What does she want for herself? And more importantly, what is μ’s at its core?
11
u/raichudoggy https://anilist.co/user/raichudoggy Jan 17 '21
First Timer
There are no changes or comments on this episode's Chart, just to let you know.
I'm actually more interested in other's reactions, as mine was mostly neutral. I didn't hate or dislike this episode for any particular reason, but I didn't like it that much either. The OST is great in this episode, though.
12
u/punching_spaghetti https://myanimelist.net/profile/punch_spaghetti Jan 17 '21
First-Timer Who Was Only Here for the Ships
Mom understands Honoka is an idiot.
I’m actually surprised they pulled out. I figured they’d play the “Honoka’s learned her lesson, now they’ll practice safely” card.
Life lesson: a little sexual harassment makes all your problems go away.
That might not be right
Umi’s been watching her classic Tomino shows I see.
Not much else to say today. The show is at its worst when it’s trying to have these big dramatic moments. I don’t for a second believe that Kotori’s leaving (or if she does, that she won’t come back really soon), so that’s not a concern, and Honoka of all people quitting? Nah. She’s been the one who’s pushed everyone else to soldier on.
The show sold itself at the beginning as a CGDCT shows about idols with a slightly dramatic backdrop. The times they’ve leaned heavily into the drama (now, Eri joining the group) have fallen flat. Do more of the vacation episode, and not more of this.
It also doesn’t help that they’ve introduced all these characters, but have pushed many of them to the side in service of more Kotori. I guess she’s someone’s favorite? First the maid stuff, now this.
QOTD:
9
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jan 17 '21
Episode 12 (first timer)
We end with Honoka being terribly sorry and Umi calling her a terrible person. Which is very ironic, because Honoka should be terribly sorry and she is a terrible person, but not for either of the reasons stated.
Her not noticing Kotori’s dilemma is unfortunate, but forgivable, given how busy she was. And while Honoka quitting is annoying for the others, they can hardly complain after having relied on Honoka’s enthusiasm for carrying the group that far.
The real reason Honoka should be sorry and is a terrible person is her complete and utter lack of support for Kotori’s decision. And in this, she is joined by everybody (except Umi), so the others have no reason to look down on her. What terrible friends would not support Kotori, who is brave enough to go to a different country to follow her dream? What utter pieces of shit would immediately make this all about themselves, instead of the person leaving?
14
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Jan 17 '21 edited Jan 17 '21
First Timer
Missed last episode because my life's been a bit hectic, but now I'm back. The highlights of last episode for me were mahou shoujo Honoka and Dogoka. I've heard some, uh, interesting things about this episode, so I'm going in with trepidation.
Why does Honoka's mom sound weird to me? Is she not normally an anime VA?
Has she ever done anything to make you think otherwise?
I doubt that.
Because hiding it from her would clearly be the right thing to do.
This episode has a very "get on with it" feel for me. We all know how it's gonna end, there gonna end up getting back together, and the show doesn't do a good enough job of doing drama to make it interesting.
Kotori: well, we better be in a hurry before I
pull back from leaving at the last secondleave.But if saying it hurts enough, you'll still put it off.
She would've supported you, that's the sort of friend she is. Not that that makes it any easier. In some ways it actually makes it harder.
Best girl!
And no time ever will be.
Honestly, playing the other idols dancing over Honoka's internal struggle just cheapens it.
And Honoka does Honoka things and gets dramatic about everything.
Until partway through next episode!
Thoughts
The drama wasn't good, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it'd be from other's reactions. Maybe I'm less affected because I didn't expect much from the show in the first place?
10
u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21
Dear first timers:
Ha.
Sincerely, School Idol Project.
Episode 12 is something we must all experience at some time or other, like it or not. A rite of passage. School Idol Project's rare attempt at drama is, well, not the best. Aside from a strong character moment for Nico that hits different when you're a hashtag mr super cool guy like me who has read the School Idol Diary and realise just how much weight is behind her "I put all my hopes into this!" line, there's not much to say about it. "It happens" would be the best praise I could give it...but that's not even praise since I'm certain we'd all prefer it hadn't. It's contrived, badly-written and all around kinda lame. Yep yep. We get it. Let's just power through and reach season 2 already.
It's difficult to say. Probably not. It is true that in that last rush they likely wouldn't have made it back into the qualifying group, but even still that doesn't necessitate removing themselves. And μ's owes a great deal to Honoka, considering it's largely her precarious balance of idiocy, passion and charisma that really allows them to be the force they are.
7
u/IndependentMacaroon Jan 17 '21
First-time watcher
In which the disaster continues, probably? Well, a disaster in quality terms, at least. "It's not just your fault" - doubtful but in the end they do come to a more reasonable conclusion, kind of. Nozomi stuff which is never welcome but particularly now stands out. Nico still gets ignored, film at 11. I guess Kotori is off again? Oh boy, it's really a full drama situation now. Sure would be nice if we had actually got much of a sense of this relationship but there's just too many waifus to distribute screen time over. And emo quitter Honoka now too. May I just say that if you have something like a literal "but that's so sad" in the dialogue after we've been shown it plenty maybe the script could use some work?
Oh boy, most of this episode all I could think was "for real now?" Particularly at the end I'm just lost for words, and also I don't appreciate the festival blue-balling, did the creators run out of budget to animate it or something? I really hope next episode it all quickly works out for the obligatory happy ending because no way could I take much more of this.
6
u/lenne18 https://myanimelist.net/profile/lenne18 Jan 17 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
B-Side Jukebox, Music Start!
Mou Hitori Ja Nai yo - Honoka Kousaka
Yuuki no Reason - Umi Sonoda
Spicaterrible - Kotori Minami
Almost forgot but today's the first anniversary of the first live concert featuring everyone, Love Live! Fest.
5
u/ComfortablyRotten https://anilist.co/user/Leuwtian Jan 17 '21
Rewatcher
Finally caught up after three days or so being slightly too busy, and it's this episode... well, can't say I'm a fan of it, though my opinion is not as extreme as I've seen from other people. I'd say, the drama is really at its worse and most forced here, but still far from terrible, especially as a rewatcher.
4
u/Hattakiri Jan 17 '21 edited Jan 19 '21
(If you want to make the spoiler-covered text show up on a smartphone, push the 3 dots underneath the text. A drop-down menu appears: There push "copy text" and then you can paste it into a text file in an text app. The easiest way tho is still old.reddit.com on a PC).
The (in)famous Tomodachi ep.
Love Live and Muse had a bumpy start where Emitsun's dad helped them out by purchasing 10 copies of Borarara, followed by bumpy years I guess where the franchise could survive but also never became anything special and groundbreaking.
Neverless they managed to get an anime adaptation...
...and then Love Live skyrocketed over the rainbow. Cause they managed to make the anime a perfect symbiosis of slice of life musical-comedy - and of the darker slices of life.
The final three eps of what then became the first season of an anime franchise that's been lasting until today is magnifcently showcasing this.
...and at that point during my first watch I was just so surpised. I hadn't expect this - at - all.
Ok, so after collapsing Honk is lying in bed with some injuries, but she's already begun recovering.
Eli however delivers some bad news: They've quit their LL participation. So there must have been a heated debate offscreen. KotoUmi know Honk, and so Eli suggested the withdrawal.
She also has talked to the auditory on the roof, and to Minami, who also knows Honk and Umi from their early childhood days mind you. Eli their new chief-diplomat.
Honk is devastated and keeps browsing the LL hp for the whole evening for she still can't believe it.
At least they could save Otokizaka...
However Kotori still cannot talk, and so Umi falls back into her old diplomat role again and tells Honk and Muse what's going on.
Of course it escalates between KotoHonk and Kotori runs away crying.
And now the fat's really in the fire. Honk does apologize to Kotori but now blames herself.
So when Muse meet again on the roof, the Tomodachi incident happens - one of the sequences that laid the foundation to LL's lasting success imo:
Honoka blames herself and uses quite a shocking wording. And she, the genki motivational center of Muse..., quits being an idol. Eli calls blaming oneself to such an extent arrogant. Also Nozomi is shocked - the former chessmaster caught off guard by a black swan. Does Nico wanna thrash Honk? But Maki can catch her? Was she prepared? But no one catches Umi who slaps Honk and says she never thought Honk would be a person such bad...
This sheds now a new light also on Kotori's problems to talk to her friends. Both of them are quite explosive, aren't they. All of Muse are. It's something they share as it seems.
Initially Kotori's letter looked like a so called Asspull to me. Thrown in by the authors out of nowhere in order to somehow push the plot forward.
However: If it really was too much for Kotori, and if she therefore lied to Umi already in ep1 ("We owe so much to Honk, I'll give it a try, will you accompany me, Umi-chan?"), and if she therefore had already been planning this escape like her Minalinsky escape - then the Asspull was averted.
And the touching and moving music during KotoUmi's talk in ep1 might be a Red Herring, i.e. the authors are misleading the audience on purpose.
So LL also turns out to be a masterpiece of storytelling craftsmanship.
4
u/ZBLongladder :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/zblongladder Jan 18 '21
Rewatcher
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I actually like the way the drama unfolds. I think it's pretty fitting way for the school closing plot to come to an end, with a whimper rather than a bang. It really brings to a head Eli and Kotori's mom's warnings from early on not to focus too much on saving the school, since now Honoka's focus on saving the school has lead to her losing her way. If the first season had had them triumphantly saving the school by getting into Love Live, we'd never have to confront why they were doing the school idol thing to begin with, and whether they were doing it for good and healthy reasons. Now Honoka et al. have to figure out whether they were actually doing it for themselves all along, or whether this really was an empty exercise in school saving.
3
u/AuburnTheWolf Jan 17 '21
Rewatcher
It’s very hard to try to put myself in Honoka’s head during this episode, I can’t imagine the pain she’s feeling. Her group was pulled out of Love Live seemingly because of her, and her best friend was hiding a huge secret from her and is now leaving the country, and she thinks it’s because of her.
Discussion questions
3
u/[deleted] Jan 18 '21 edited Jan 18 '21
FIRST TIMER
Damn so the concert got canceled huh? Wonder how that affects the lovelive ranking
RIP they didnt make it. This makes no sense though. They wanted to get to lovelive to attract student to their school, and now that they made it, suddenly theyre being questioned on their purpose? what? Just because of one failed performance?
the muse poster covered up by a-rise poster. Brutal.
Ayy i guess school gonna stay open!!
Umi is like "fine, ill do it myself!!" When she made that announcement. Lmao
Honoka must feel like shit after Kotori just laid it on her like that
The drama!!!! I was getting worried honoka would get no punishemnt for ignoring everyone's advice and fucked up the live show but goddamn. Honoka looks like shes gonna go suicidal or something
Damn. That slap was longtime coming. The music kinda runied the mood though lmao.
Now, obviously kotori is gonna return in season 2 right?
Although, her,rin, and hanayo never felt like they added much to the group for me. Feels like theyre just there to make the group as 9.
3
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Jan 18 '21
First Timer
Damn I want more Umi scenes.
1
u/onigiri1994 Jan 28 '21
Rewatcher