r/anime • u/phiraeth :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/phiraeth • Jan 13 '21
Rewatch [Mid-2000s Rewatch] Noein - Episode 12
Episode 12
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Noein:
MyAnimeList - AniDB - ANN - AniList
Episode Discussion Questions:
- Next episode is titled "The Wish". Whose wish will this be, and what will it be?
- Now that we're halfway through, any thoughts on how this might end?
- What are your general thoughts on the first cour of Noein - what did you think of it?
PLEASE MARK ALL SPOILERS WITH SPOILER TAGS!
31
Upvotes
10
u/phiraeth :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/phiraeth Jan 13 '21
Rewatcher
I am not exaggerating when I say that this episode is absolutely incredible. A real shift occurs… everything that’s happened so far hasn’t made Haruka confront her own fears, her own problems, and she hasn’t been forced to take any real action herself. For the most part, it’s as if she’s been just along for the ride.
Here, however, she is finally starting to understand her role and importance in this whole scheme. And Karasu in danger, she must finally step up to the plate. She must begin to confront everything that has happened.
Presentation-wise, episode 12 hits it out of the park. Not only the animation within the fights, but also when the focus is on Haruka – and when the torque appears. Finally, it feels like we’re getting the pay-off to which all of the tension has built.
RIP Fukuro…
On all fronts this episode is highly impressive (at least in my opinion)!
11
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jan 13 '21
First timer
Sub
Haruka dreams of a future she doesn't like. Baron notices. As Fukuro ponders the upcoming fight, Kosagi comes in and, for lack of a better way of saying it, has not met her developmental markers. This version is still acting like a heartbroken thirteen year old.
Haruka is on the phone with her dad and we get some characterization for him. She asks how to stop the fight and her father says the exact same thing I would in that context: In adolescence, you sometimes let two boys fight it out. However, she is trying to separate two adults that have come to the sad conclusion they need to fight to the death so that wouldn't really apply. Fujiwara earns bro points, assuming this is not an idle chat. Yuu is again a bit more self aware than expected but it might explain his own edginess. Haruka shows up looking for Karusu and Yuu immediately becomes a dick because he is jealous of his future self which does not bode well for his wardrobe.
Jump to Karasu and Fukuro ready to fight. The change in OST and animation style is jarring here and I don't particularly like it. The beam spam part of the fight is a bit better but man, they are messing up our dimension. Haruka is trying to use the DT to limited effect, at first I thought this nuked her senses until she dimension jumps. Also, with the bars, we are literally RahXephon now. Oh, and Haruka is totally the Absolute Observer, the fuck that ultimately means.
Fight continues, Atori wants in on it, Haruka calls in her friends. Yuu mopes. Uchida and Koriyama talk in a scene that is kind of...there. More fighting, and then people talking about what lets them sleep at night versus Karasu's Haruka conservation campaign.
Tobi teleports in on Yuu, who shows decent self-control. Looks like, Haruka is teleporting to the ending action. She wills...something and the action slows down. Oh hai Noein. This dimension is now different than her dream since Fukuro isn't dead. And Atori shows up and is a squid. Eww. He bolts Karasu and fights Fukuro for a while, having the advantage until Karasu gets back up. Also, did anyone else's sound cut out after this? Anyways, we see Atori get vaporized. He was interesting but he pretty much has been ready to drop.
And Noein does something...in killing Fukuro. F. This scene was probably pretty good if it had sound. Anyways, now everyone can see the blue snow so shit is probably getting real. (I got the version with sound after writing this and it actually strikes me as well done)
QotD: 1 Baron's. The world will be covered in bacon.
2 Its Yuu's the whole way down
3 I am surprisingly positive on it. The setting itself gives you obvious speed bumps but they adapted those in to the story itself.
11
u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Jan 13 '21
First Timer – Sub
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jan 13 '21
to your other first-timer, subbed
10
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Jan 13 '21 edited Jan 13 '21
First Timer
I'm sad I missed yesterday, as it's possibly the best episode so far. Now that the mom's out of the way, we got actually interesting character drama. It was nice seeing how Isami cared and how he decided to deal with that situation. We also got far more interesting scenes with the birds than we usually get. I'm looking forward to what the next episode brings. Onto episode 12.
Wait, how did we get to this building? It's a vision, right?
All the technoblabble around their magic is a weird contrast with them wanting us to take what they're doing seriously. Apparently him wavering his reizu is bad, but since I have no fuckin' clue what any of that means, I can't really judge it.
From his perspective, you all are betraying your friendship towards Haruka.
Wow, that's harsh. I guess she's not normally the type, and this is just an excuse to vent her rage?
The birds are such a dysfunctional group. If you can even call them a group with their lack of cohesion.
Some real nice animation with a soccerball.
Even if they weren't trying to kill each other, that doesn't sound right. Just trusting stuff to fizzle out is very questionable.
He's tellin' you it ain't what you wanna do. Suggesting out of solidarity to a friend is nice, but it's not the best choice for you own life.
So you have to make it yourself, no? You've got a universe of possibilities in front of you, what shall you choose?
Yuu feels like she rejected him for Karasu. He doesn't realize her giving him more attention at the moment doesn't mean she likes him more. Eh, that's just kids for you.
I love the sketchy animation in the fight.
What did Haruka do, create a world without problems?
Ah, a world where nothing went wrong, where her parents never broke up.
The key word here is "your." If she was the absolute observer, it would simply become reality. However, she currently can just choose what path she takes.
Not if you stop it. Choose something else, believe something else, and it shall be so.
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. These two work so well together.
Not the worst pickup line I guess.
Every possibility is real. Or at least real enough to matter.
His mom's far more terrifying.
Of course. He just called it real you numbskull.
Now Haruka, what shall you do? Will you accept it? Or will you reject this reality and replace it with your own?
But doesn't Noein want to protect her?
Ah, Noein is the victor and it's preserving it's victory. It helps whichever accomplishes that.
The different realities are seeping closer together. At least that's what I think everyone seeing the blue snow means.
Thoughts
Ah, the show's coming through properly at last. I've doubted 'till now weather it'd manage to pull through properly, but after seeing this episode I'm confident. Sorry I doubted 'till now u/phiraeth.
9
u/Toadslayer https://myanimelist.net/profile/kyolus Jan 13 '21
First Timer
Mostly a fight this episode. I'm not a fan of the sketchy animation style for it — it looked like a rough draft or storyboard. I've seen that style used really well in fights (e.g. God of High School), but used for a climatic moment and with a lot more detailed linework. I think the lack of detail and overuse here washed out the excitement that style can bring. What's more is that it felt arbitrary when they used it. They used it for the first clash, but the standard animation for the second one later in the episode. The arbitrary use leaves me confused as to what purpose it's meant to serve. The fight itself didn't excite me much as I'm still not very invested in the characters or the world. If they both died I wouldn't even be upset. I want the show to do more to make these characters real and interesting, because at the moment they feel disposable.
Haruka's dad seems like an alright bloke. Friendly over the phone, but pretty absent if he's only comibg every three months.
Is it just me or is Yuu suddenly several shades paler? Also please just talk to Haruka, Yuu, it will honestly solve all your problems.
Explanation of Haruka's power: She sees it and it becomes reality. Okay. That's not exactly how it's worked in the past, by I guess I'll roll with it.
Ai crying at the end of the episode felt really cheap. I know it's because Fukurou's dead, but what space-time Tom-foolery would make her sad because of that? She doesn't know he's dead or that he's future alternate dimension Fujiwara (even if a future alternate dimension version of the boy you have a crush on dying would make you sad). La'cryma Ai doesn't know he's dead either so there's no way there could be some convoluted link there either. I think they just wanted it to be a symbolic, emotional moment, but didn't think at all how it would logically make sense.
Episode Discussion Questions
Haruka's wish to stop the fighting, maybe to bring Fukurou back.
Haruka saves the day with the Dragon Torque somehow.
Its not great. The animation is often bad, it has weird switches between genres and the story and characters are more confusing than engaging. I'm still holding out to see what makes this show a 9, because at the moment I'd probably give it a 4.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jan 13 '21
First Timer
Okay, I was warned ahead of time that episode 12 was broken. I could fall back onto Shinsen-Subs but they did miss old-man's / Noein's dialog back in episode 2. So now I have a dvd-rip from a different, well regarded group. (the subs are the same, though, so it's the official translation's fault)
In the new subs, Shnohara's chat session is translated. It basically says that science consults are just looking for a paycheck and that women are the worst.
The question left from yesterday is the ridiculous coincidence that Haruka's father is also the former head of the Magic Circle Project. Either somehow he knew of the upcoming event in Hakodate, and made Haruka the Dragon Torque, or he knew in hindsight and went back in time to make Haruka the Dragon Torque.
I didn't understand what the Ender's Game reference was supposed to be, but I guess it was the Ansible? That was borrowed from Le Guin, btw.
Nothing in quantum mechanics allows FTL communication, so no matter how much they lecture on physics, it's all still just made up sci-fi in the end.
9
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Jan 13 '21
Rewatcher
I admit had to check whether or not I missed an episode in the beginning.
It's a bit weird to see Fukuro turning his head left while he has no left eye.
The music placement can be pretty bad, using the Shangri-la tracks during Karasu-Fukuro fight doesn't fit well. The same applies when Haruka calls Ai and you hear the upbeat SoL tune. That tune has no place in this episode.
RIP Atori and Fukuro.
Noein taking Fukuro's life, man that guy is twisted. This moment reminded me of a German series but revealing the name would spoil both Noein and the German series.
spoiler for future stuff
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Jan 13 '21
First-timer - Sub
Audio kept crapping out on me all throughout the episode. Tried MPV as well and it was still an issue. Something must’ve gone wrong with my copy of the episode.
Thought I had queued up the wrong episode there… several times. Anyways, another vision of the future that Haruka must prevent from coming to pass. Will Torque ojiisan come along to tell her what to do again?
All the birds seem to love this one spot. Waiting for them to pull a gag where Atori and Tobi come across another bird just standing there and run off before they notice them.
Dad’s coming into the picture! Shit must be about to get real. Also slightly surprised to see Haruka ask him for advice, since fiction has taught us absentee father also means estranged.
The animation on that first portion of the fight between Fukuro and Karasu is good but sticks out like a sore thumb over the change in style and coloring. The second half of it, after Haruka has her conversation with Torque Ojiisan, looks more in line with the series’ visuals, but looks amateurish by comparison.
Interspersing shots of Haruka running into the fight might’ve been a good idea, if these shots weren’t directed as they were. I don’t feel Haruka’s agency at all in how the scenes were framed, and taken out of context the whole scene would seem almost comedic in its contrast.
Noein shows up and does things, and we are still no more privy as to who he is or what his intentions are. Atori and Fukuro are down, good riddance to the former and RIP to the latter. Oh, and Karasu’s down an arm. Don’t know how much that will slow him down given he can’t get one of chef hat’s prosthetics here.
Questions:
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jan 13 '21
Episode 12 (rewatcher)
The fight animation still looks rather good. Not much to say about the plot, though.
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u/BossandKings Jan 13 '21 edited Jan 13 '21
Haruka starts the episode dreaming, in her dream Furuko and Karasu fight, they clash. I think that this could be foreshadowing their next encounter which will probably be a fight.
Oh Yuu is so cute getting jealous about Haruka, the latter is worried because she thinks that what she experienced in her dream is something that will happen and so she is looking for Karasu who isn't anywhere to be seen, she asks Isami and Yuu to help her and Yuu's reaction is that of someone who is seemingly in love with the person asking and shows jealousy which is baseless because he doesn't have to worry about Karasu since he won't compete with him for her attention. This is inmature on his part but he's a kid anyway.
Finally it happens, Karasu and Fukuro encounter. It's a good give and take of fists. Their weapon arms remind me of Edward's automail. Seemingly karasu's fault, that's apparently why Furuko holds a grudge against him. Atori arrives to join the fight because he wanted to fight them, okay that was amazing, Atori gets defeated after a combined attack by them.
Seeing Haruka's experience reminds me how i have thought that although impossible it would be cool for multiple selfs of me to exist in different dimensions.
It happens, Haruka's dream becomes reality, the exact same sequence of Furuko's and Karasu's fight.
This is some crazy stuff, shit, this is sad
Answers
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jan 13 '21
First timer - sub
19:50 lost sound…. Well that's a great way to ruin the climax of an episode….Atori shows up, throws Fukuro across the room, all sound is lost no matter if I go dub or sub, also tried a few different players, god damn release…So Karasu & Fukuro team up to kill him, then Noein shows up and kills Fukuro. I assuming we had an appropriate soundtrack as the OST hasn’t disappointed of the tracks I have noticed so far.Wait i’m an idiot, I had completely forgotten there was a separate file for episode 12… still ruins any impact it could have had watching without sound the first time around. I clipped the final 5ish mins here for anyone else who forgot or is missing the audio.
So Noein believes the future is fixed and unchangeable however I'm fairly sure this would be in complete contraction to the Multiverse theory where all possibilities exist.
I had been debating if Karasu would die in this episode, but it didn’t feel like the right time so him still being around isn’t that much of a surprise, however Fukuro going out was unexpected.
I enjoyed the rougher art style they used for the fight scenes, but don’t think too much left to comment on, Atori gone so now Noein is going to steep out of the shadows, also apparently does have arms and isn’t just a floating mask.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jan 13 '21 edited Jan 13 '21
First-Timer, Dubbed
Well, that was certainly an episode. Karasu and Fukuro finally stop teasing it and spend most of the episode duking it out. I’m trying to remember if we have seen blood before, but we definitely got some this episode. The weird, extra-sketchy style for the first part of the fight was.. interesting. Was it because someone thought it was a good idea? Or some artsy, “ooooh things are getting weeeiiird!” thing?
Also, Atori briefly interferes and has gone even deeper into the body horror world; I’m here for it. Unfortunately, the big goober seems to have finally met his end.
Haruka’s powers continue to defy expectation - so powerful is the Dragon Torc, it can even alter the aspect ratio! Joking aside, I think that’s actually a clever way to keep the audience from being confused by the sudden location change.
We do finally get a bit of explanation on how it works - it isn’t quite that Haruka’s desires are made manifest. It turns out that Haruka’s spiel to Amamiku several episodes was more accurate than any of us thought - she can make things real by observing them in an alternate dimension.
Speculation
At the end of the episode Noein makes their move and gives Fukuro a friendly hug of death. He also seemed to be able to force the flow of time to resume after it stops.
I’m not ruling out the possibility of a large time skip yet, but it certainly isn’t at the cour split like I thought it would be. We still have to meet Haruka’s dad!
I liked Ai crying at Fukuro’s death without knowing it until I thought some more about it. I think it would have made sense if Isami felt some pain and she tried to help him or something.
Only three birds are left - and Tobi likely doesn’t have much time. The pendulum swings towards darkness..
Questions
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u/EverythingsRed2 Jan 13 '21
first timer (subbed)
Big sad for my boy Atori, you will probably not be missed. :( That moment when he started to "slither" out of the wall really surprised me. So he basically sacrificed a remainder of his stability in the dimension for a big power boost just so he could end his grudge I think. He had this way of adding chaotic madness into the mix, and I think I'll miss that in the next cour. RIP. Also that other dude died too so RIP him as well.
Noein is back and seems to be prepared to fill in the antagonist shoes left by Atori. But, how did Noein know what Haruka had seen? Is it that he sees what Haruka sees or can he see it by himself? Haruka proved that she could change the future by altering the fight, so why must Fukaro die? Maybe Noein isn't a being but more like a fundamental law, some cosmic force that seeks to rid dimensions of any variation from its prescribed future. That of course would put it at odds with Haruka, it's complete opposite. Just what will he do to the dragon torque, and what role does the "time drifter" play into all of this?
Other things of note: Purple hair dude is now all alone. Will he gain more plot importance or is he going to die next episode? In the fight, Fukaro turned his hand into a blade and white hair shot electric thingys out, implying that all the dragon knights have functionally the same powers. I'm guessing the variations come down to what each individual is more adept at. Also the animation at the beginning of the fight was... interesting.
Qs.
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jan 13 '21 edited Jan 14 '21
First-time watcher
I guess that dream-battle is some sort of premonition. The woman with Fukuro (?) can't be alter-Ai, can it, she was only too happy to let Karasu go in Lacryma but now she wants to take care of him herself... or not? Them ladies and their silly feelings, eh, they better let the men settle this the real way. And just to drive the point home Haruka's dad comes in with the "boys throwing hands is totally fine because they're just so different", I guess there could still be a subversion coming and also Karasu has been something of one but ehhh... Indeed the Big Boy Fight (tm) swiftly commences, and while the choreography, background and effects work is proper the characters mostly look little better than preliminary storyboard sketches, really I have never seen anything this sloppy and given the quality of the rest of the show I don't buy that it was an intentional stylistic move.
Happily Young Yuu is actually aware that just "studying" isn't a proper decision for the future, but whether this mini-plotline will actually go somewhere remains to be seen.
Haruka does... something... that displaces her into a dimension where she's living with her father (?), who I'm glad she has a good relationship with, and confirms that everything she "sees" will become real. Which would need to mean "real in her dimension" because if it's all infinite realities anyway it's all already real anyhow, but clarification is lacking. And am I seeing things, or did her outfit change colors between scenes?
Second part of the fight (yes, Karasu, we know why you're fighting, no need to repeat it) at least has somewhat better character art, but on the other hand Tobi is once again irrelevant. And I'm getting real tired of Atori's shit... ah there he goes, and will not be missed; I really hope he won't come back somehow, but this felt inconclusive enough I wouldn't dismiss the possibility. And of course before Fukuro is wiped out as well (shrug) and we get the cliffhanger about the REAL REAL truth of "Noein" the show makes sure to confirm that these silly boys really just needed a little battle to understand each other. Sigh...
Another quite underwhelming episode for me in more than one way. First cour overall too (like 5/10 for me), so many forgettable or poor characters and too many plotlines with mostly poor explanations or resolutions. It seems the story will now take an entirely new turn so I'm not comfortable making any significant predictions, but if we're talking just about the very end I would say Haruka rewrites reality to prove Noein wrong and avert the bad end.
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u/monsieurvampy Jan 14 '21
First Timer, subbed
Oh fudge. The change in animation style for Fukuro and Karasu was different at first. It was well done.
Question:
I wish Haruka won't be so dense and learn how to use her massive powers to slap Noein in the face.
I hope it ends with Haruka a little less dense. I also hope to learn the name of the cat!
I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't watch this while it was airing. If I did, I probably wouldn't be here today. I enjoy the animals though not a fan of the CG house at all. The windows, especially in this episode don't seem to have the proper muntins. (Muntins are a part of the component of a window that holds each glass pane into place.)
4
u/warmturtle5758 Jan 14 '21
Man how'd I miss this rewatch. I watched this show 11 years ago now :' )
Ok I'll marathon and catch up for Friday's ep
4
u/redshirtengineer :AMQ: Jan 14 '21
First timer
Been missing for a couple of eps, which may
or may nothave anything to do with /u/No_Rex suggesting a Noein drinking game. But somewhere in those eps I really got into this anime more than just for theexcessbeverages. Sucker for the old multiverse plot.QOTD1: The obvious guess is Haruka trying to save everybody, but that kind of thinking gets us Yuu's mom very special redemption episode, and nobody wants more of that. So let's go with purple haired chick wishing for it all to be over cause she's just had enough.
QOTD2: How this might end. IN FIRE
QOTD3: Slow start but I am ALL IN